Eight or nine gunmen stormed the bakery last night local time. Dozens of people were still inside the building according to restaurant employees who managed to escape. Now, isis has taken credit for the siege, but the state Department Tells us they have not been able to confirm that claim. I want to bring in my colleague, cal perry, who can tell us more about this Police Operation as it unfolded. Cal. We are ready to say that this is now over. Very dramatic developments in just the past two hours. At about 10 00 p. M. Local time, that raid began on the restaurant with commandos entering that restaurant. There was a hail, an exchange of gunfire. Were talking about the rapidaction battalion thats basically like a s. W. A. T. Team equivalent in bangladesh. That raid went on for 10 to 20 minutes. There was a series of explosions. There were screams heard coming from inside that restaurant. Then it was quiet. All silent for about 40 minutes, and thats when some of those hostages started coming out of that restaurant. At least 34 people wounded. Again, many of these reports initial. At least 34 people wounded in this event, including, as we understand it, japanese nationals and indian nationals. We are waiting, of course, to hear word on what other nationalities were involved. This was a diplomatic enclave. Quite likely a number of foreigners caught up in this violent incident. Cal perry following all the developments. I want to go through ma mu na. Weve been speaking to her. Give us an update of what youve wngs witnessed, what you saw and heard over the course of this operation as it unfolded from your vantage point. Hello, can you hear us . All right. It seems that we have lost mamuna. Hello . Hello, are you with us . Okay. Were going to try to reestablish that connection if we can. But with us here in studio, we have with us malcolm nance. Malcolm, weve been talking about the significance of this operation. Some very important pieces of the muzzle that weve learned. Some of it, were not able to independently confirm. Most notably is the isis claim of responsibility. It came out on affiliated news sites belonging to isis or affiliated with isis, raether. Lets talk about what this means if in fact this turns out to be isis. Also on the heels of the attack we saw in istanbul, which the turkish government is assigning to isis. Right. Well, this would be the coming out, inaugural terrorism event for isis in the indian you know, eastern Indian Subcontinent. And bangladesh in particular. They have never had an operation of this scale, this magnitude, a suicide hostage barricade where they have come out and now captured the attention of the entire international community. Very few people before tonight could have told you where dhaka, bangladesh, was or that it was even the capital of bangladesh. So they now have staked their claim in an area that actually was traditionally al qaedas. Al qaeda of the Indian Subcontinent had dominated this part of the world. But it also shows that isis, as theyre being pressured throughout the world, are now activated their smaller level affiliates and carrying out big scale operations. Jim cavanaugh, i want to talk to you about this operation from your expertise as a Hostage Negotiator as well as a special agent of the atf. Talk to us about how this unfolded in terms of the element of surprise. When we began our coverage, we were both a little bit surprised that the police, the Bangladeshi Police and their special police decided to launch this operation during Daylight Hours and not with the advantage of perhaps nighttime darkness. It seems by the results that were seeing now this may have worked to their advantage. Right. And they could have had listening devices inside. You know, if they were doing this appropriately, listening devices inside. The longrifle teams watching through the scopes, closing the perimeter, debriefing the one hostage that got out and maybe even the one suspect for any information they might gather. And then they might have saw an advantage, an advantage where hostages were separated from terrorists, a place where they could make a move and, you know, were hoping they had a more Surgical Team up front from what we saw with the armored personnel carriers, but that might have been just a followon to a more surgical special operators up front who went in. You know, if theyve saved 14 people out of 20, i mean thats thats a pretty good number here in a very, very dire situation. So id say the commanders were reading the inside, reading the escalation, deescalation clues, and they were making their move, making their decision to move. Darkness sometimes is an advantage. Sometimes its not as great an advantage as knowing whats going on inside. So you have to weigh all those things. Time goes for you, goes against you. You got to weigh all those things. So i think in the end, this was a veryficult situation they faced, and they did rescue some number of hostages in there, and maybe the number of hostagetakers was not as great as we thought earlier on. Seven to nine, maybe it turns out to be only six because they said they were all dead, and five were killed, one captured. So lets talk about that one potentially captured attacker. What value would that attacker have for Law Enforcement officials, counterterrorism officials . Who is going to want to get their hands on him to get the information that he knows about what took place . Yeah, hell be hell be interrogate the briskly once his wounds are patched up, and hell probably be singing like he was on the voice, telling everything he knows. Hes probably just a young guy. Hes not going to withstand any sophisticated interrogation by the police after this thing is over. And malcolm will tell you likely these guys, they want to brag about their operations. His colleagues are all dead. He went there with the objective probably of suicide himself. So hes not going to be tightlipped about it. Hell tell all about it, and of course theyll know who all the other killers were, and theyll sort through it and get some good tejintelligence. I think weve reestablished connection with an eyewitness weve been speaking to throughout the course of this deal as well as the operation. Walk us through what youve been able to see from your balcony. I understand that youre a few blocks away from where all of this unfolded. So talk us back a little bit about what youre seeing now, what you saw this morning as this operation was unfolding realtime right in front of your eyes. All right. I think we may have lost mamuna again. Were going to keep working on that connection. Let me bring in Steve Clemens and talk potentially about what this means for the Bangladeshi Government. Weve talked about the implications of what this may mean for the United States and certainly what it may mean for isis global reach. What direction does this now take the Bangladeshi Government that has wrestled with its own domestic challenges, with the rise of political islam, some groups that have been affiliate the with more extremist elements of extreme militant groups, rather. What do you think this attack, this siege, is going to have on the government now . Well, a smart move of the government would begin to demonstrate in a very visible way cooperation with other nations that have the resources it doesnt have to cord nice and synthesize those ca passities to begin taking on this element which is you know, those of us who care about the bangladeshi people have been worried for some time about this targeted killing of secular leaders but also sufi and shia representatives and others in society. You know, the news of these deaths would pop in the american or the western media and disappear very quickly. But you could feel for those of us who have looked at bangladesh and look at the fear and how it was growing across some of the moderate elements of bangladesh. That not enough was going on. These are not my feelings. These are sentiments that have been expressed to me by, you know, others in bangladesh. And i want to respect your other commentators views. Mamuna, that she sees the government of having done some brave things and having stepped forward. You know, the Supreme Court trying to basically reestablish secularism. But there are a lot of people who feel in the face of these killings, the government has been clamping down on dissent, unresponsive, and not effectively taking on this issue. So i think the strategy that they should take is to begin to do what malcolm nance said. This is a change in the game. They are now on the map of big countries around the world with lots of resources. Hopefully they will welcome and accept all of that and go after these groups that are operating in their society and begin to shut them down and curtail their activities. But i dont know theyre going to do that. I hope they do. Its not been something that they have been doing thus far despite the murder of many of the best people in their country. Steve clemens, stay with us. I want to bring into the conversation graham wood. He is with the atlantic as well as an Edward R Murrow fellow at the council on Foreign Relations here in new york. Graham, good to have you with us. Listen, i know you read a lot about isis, and so give us a sense of whats at play here for isis. Some people may be watching this, and as malcolm was saying, they may not have ever heard of dhaka. They may have never heard of bangladesh. Why bangladesh . Why has isis been so keen on trying to establish a foothold in this particular country over the past year . We know that since november, they had an issue of dabiq magazine that spelled this out, that talked about it. But why . Theyve been very clear about their designs on bangladesh. They have this strategy of looking for countries that have strong muslim majorities, as bangladesh does, and that are also inherently unstable. Bangladeshs government is not one of the ones that we could point to that we could say is really on the firmest footing. So isis looks at governments like that and says, we would like to attack places where we can show that the government is even less stable than it appears to be at first. They want to be able to say that the government here cant provide security. It cant provide stability. And then they want to be able to point to their own state in syria and iraq and say, look, stability is what we do best. We were able to do this in a war zone. So if bangladesh gets worse and believe me, theyll try to make it worse then well be an alternative that bangladeshis might be able to turn to. I take it youre looking at this situation and youre probably saying this is not going to be the end of this. This is not by any means the last time were going to hear from isis or perhaps even extremist groups affiliated with isis or adopting his ideology in bangladesh. Thats right. Its not the end, nor is it as some of your other comment ators have said the beginning. Its another example of isis trying to say we can strike you where we wish. We can make sure that Bangladeshi Society is unstable. Its unprotected by its authorities, and that if theres someone we dont like, we can take them out. So this is this is the message that isis has been giving, and its just given us more loudly than before today. And, graham, let me ask you this. I know were talking about isis because theyve put out a claim of responsibility that we havent independently verified. But if we were to run this spectrum of possible terrorist groups or militant groups in bangladesh, could there be another one that was capable of carrying this type of attack out . And if so, who or why . I think thats possible. I think its unlikely, though. The choice of the choice of venue to attack, in a suburb of dhaka that is an international suburb of a place where people are most secure and most cosmopolitan, that points to some group that wants to make an imprint on the global scene, not a local group. Theres possibility, i guess, of an al qaeda affiliate that might want to do an attack like this. But the fact that isis, it seems, claimed it, has sent out images that look to be credible. They still night nmight not be, they look to suggest that isis hand is strongly involved here. All right. Graeme wood, appreciate your insights. Thanks for joining us. Thanks. Malcolm, very quickly, counterterrorism efforts with bangladesh. Describe what they were like yesterday, what theyre going to be like tomorrow. Before yesterday, they were regional and local counterterrorism support that we were providing all around the world. You know, the United States has provided cointer terrorism support to well over 100 countries. But what its going to be tomorrow is going to be absolutely astronomical. They are not only going to get counterterrorism support both merma materially, theyre going to get a lot of training and not just at a regional level. You see they had victims who were from japan. Japan tends to contribute a lot of materials. India itself has a very robust counterterrorism capacity and very elite teams, and they themselves can offer that at a regional level. The United States special Operations Command probably already has people over there lee azing with the american embassy, may have even given advice on this raid. So they are also going to be able, through the state department and the fbi and other cooperative agencies, suddenly come down to bangladesh and try to professionalize at least a Major Organization like the rab into a really elite counterterrorism force. All right. Malcolm nance, thank you very much for joining us. Were going to take a quick break. Youre watching extended coverage of msnbcs live coverage of the dhaka siege that has unfolded in bangladesh. Stay with us. Well be right back. Its here, but its going by fast. The opportunity of the year is back the mercedesbenz summer event. Get to your dealer today for incredible onceaseason offers, and start firing up those grilles. Lease the c300 for 379 a month at your local mercedesbenz dealer. Mercedesbenz. The best or nothing. Hello welcome to holiday inn. Running our own business, weve been traveling a lot. A hotel looking to help Small Businesses succeed is incredible. Thank you. Holiday inn is an extension of our team. Book your next journey at holidayinn. Com thank you. Holiday inn is an built a sandcastle . Id . Ha, no, i switched to geico and got more. More . 24 7 access online, on the phone or with the geico app. That is more. Go get some mud. All that more has to be why theyre the secondlargest auto insurer. Everybody likes more. Mhm, i think so. Geico. Expect great savings and a whole lot more. Welcome back, everyone. Im Ayman Mohyeldin here at msnbc World Headquarters in new york. Youre with us watching extended coverage of the siege in dhaka, bangladesh. It has been unfolding now for the past several hours overnight. With me throughout all of it has been my colleague cal perry. Hes been updating us throughout the course of the evening. Cal, give us a quick rundown of what we have learned. Ayman, it has been truly an astonishing last 12 hours for the small south asian country of bangladesh. This country finding itself at the center of terrorism, something that the world is now coming to grips with. In just the past two hours, the commandos involved have laid siege to the very restaurant that terrorists had laid siege to some ten hours earlier. We now are ready to say that this is over. At least 34 people wounded. Were still working on the details of the nationalities. But we understand that all of the hostagetakers, all of the attackers, all of the gunmen were killed in that raid. It is still unclear right now at this hour what the exact numbers are on those who are killed and those who are wounded. It will probably be a day or two before we have very specific information as the officials are just now getting around to briefing the media. But certainly this news cycle, which was dominated by the istanbul attacks, now is refocused on a new region in the world, a new front in this, the war on terror. Ayman. All right, cal perry, thank you for that update. I want to bring in steve clemons. Steve, you heard cal perry talk about a new front in the war on terror. It is hard to talk about anything in Southeast Asia and not talk about its impact on india and, in particular case here, you have bangladesh, obviously a neighbor. Shares a border with india. Now that it has what we believe to be a strong presence of extremist groups whether it al qaeda, whether it be isis in its new form in bangladesh, what does this mean for india . What impact is this going to have on the geopolitical security structure of the subcontinent . Well, i think i think india, and remember bangladesh declared independence, was made independent from pakistan in 1971. So, you know, its a complicated region. There is some tension between bangladesh and india, but overall good relations. But there are popups here. But theres a lot of Illegal Movement of people and migration from bangladesh into india and perhaps vice versa. But remember india is a country that has experienced horrific terrorism. Most often you may remember the mumbai attacks that were sponsored by l. E. T. In pakistan, a terrorist group there, allegedly with some support of a sliver of pakistani intelligence support. I think that, you know, my kneejerk response is india has a greater resilience, a greater intelligence capacity, and a greater preparedness right now than bangladesh has. It has greater capacity. But when isis is out there looking for soft spots, looking for weak governments as graeme wood just laid out, that they might try to destabilize. You know, while the Indian Government has fragilities and what not, its not this kind of terrorism that would necessarily do it. So i tend not to be worried about india as much as i am other governments that are fragile like the bangladeshi one right now. Steve clemons, stay with us if you can for a few more minutes. Jim cavanaugh, if i can bring you back into this discussion. The implications of what we are seeing unfold halfway around the world, what it means for us back here in the United States. Some similarities. The United States is about to enter a Holiday Weekend, one of the long Holiday Weekends, one of the busiest if not the busiest travel Holiday Weekend of the summer. The target in bangladesh, a restaurant, a cafe. Nothing extraordinary. Nothing out of the ordinary about that particular location other than perhaps that it was frequented by westerners, frequented by tourists, frequented by diplomats. But still with a presence of security. We heard from the reporters that weve been speaking to on the ground. Theyve told us that security as it was entering the end of ramadan, entering its holiday period, was stepped up, was beefed up. Something were seeing back here at home. How concerned are you, if you are a u. S. Law enforcement official this evening, watching this unfold halfway around the world . Well, i am concerned, and i think Law Enforcement in america is concerned. But we have great capacity. We have great intelligence, and weve been hit in more recent times by these inspired actors, not a group like this of seven actors together. Weve been hit with, you know, one or two actors who are inspired by al qaeda or isis, and they can be extremely deadly. Look at the one actor in orlando that killed 49 people. But those are the kind of attacks weve had. The inspired attacks. I think we should all be concerned, but the answer is you got to be alert. You got to Pay Attention to whats going on. If i could complete this circle, ayman, that you and receive jst talked about because its so important in the sphere and whats going on in the world. Mumbai is such a major terrorist event, ten attackers trained in pakistan to attack mumbai. They had 12 locations. There was a lot of deaths. But the indian police, the mumbai police, were so well trained, they were able to handle that situation at these 12 locations over four days. Fire at the hotel, multiple attacks in the jewish center, and they were trained and up to that challenge. Bangladesh, can you just imagine what this disruption in the city of dhaka from this one event. What if there were four or five or six events simultaneously . In the u. S. , we have the capability to deal with that. Some countries do not. So if you look at a mumbai attack, you look at a bangladesh attack, you look at the inspired attacks in america, its a circle of what isis and al qaeda push out in their virus against the world. Attack where you are, and sometimes well send a trained cell that we support financially and with weapons. I think we should all be concerned over the july 4th weekend, not to freeze ourselves from not celebrating, but just to be alert when youre out there. Pay attention. Have your own personal strategy and a personal strategy with your small group. I always say have a command post at home. Have somebody at your own personal command post you can call, text, reach out to. Have a little strategy to get away, move away, to see something, to say something. And my personal advice to everybody always is take cover. There could be another. And all of these attackers, from the Boston Marathon to al qaeda to mumbai, theres often a followon shooting or bomb. So take cover. There could be another. Move away. You know, be alert. It will happen somewhere, and the more alert people are, the safer theyre going to be. Jim, on one hand, i want to say those are words of wisdom. On the other hand, its also a reminder of the new reality and the new world we live in. We want to take a quick break. Stay with us. Well come back with more extended couverage of the dhaka siege. Regularity with dailycomfort fiber. So unlike others, mirafiber is less likely to cause unwanted gas. Love your fiber. New mirafiber. One coat, yes there is a day, for every number. There is a time, for all my slumbers. 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They massage key pressure points with each step, for all day comfort that keeps you feeling more energized. Dudes got skills. New dr. Scholls stimulating step insoles. Welcome back, everyone. I am Ayman Mohyeldin at msnbc World Headquarters in new york. Youre watching live extended coverage of the dhaka siege that has been unfolding in bangladesh over the past several hours. I want to go back to steve clemons. Steve, you and i were talking about something that i think is very fascinating, which is some of these attacks, whether they be orlando or istanbul or now as we are seeing, bangladesh, not necessarily directed by isis but maybe even inspired. Talk to us a little bit about the cascading terrorism effect, the butterfly effect, if you will, of what we are seeing unfold on the global stage. How are these attacks related or not related to one another . Well, as Jim Cavanaugh and others on the program have said, that there are different kinds of terrorism enacted by different players. Some are inspired couples. Weve seen married couples in san bernardino, or omar mateen in orlando, or radicalized members of the u. S. Military in fort hood, you know, take on action in the United States. But in other places, up know, one of the biases that i worry about, those that are terrorism observers, and weve heard it all over tv today, is because this was a complex attack with numerous people, that, you know, it was engaged with a plan and was suicidal, that that capacity and sophistication pretty much identifies this as the footprint of isis or al qaeda as opposed to other groups out there. And i worry that the pref lance prev lance of this and the way were covering this, its not hard for others to begin to both copycat. So we have a bias, i think, built in in our analysis. And i also think that when youve seen and we dont get a lot of attention to this boko haram and other groups in africa, north africa, mali, libya and other places are mimicking what theyre seeing play out in other places, and they are affiliating. So i remember when peter bergen wrote the book holy war inc. What was interesting about that was he looked at al die al qaed its earlier form, with ministries and responsibilities that operated, you know, across different languages. 60 different nations or so in what was then toxic intelligence environments. Well, the intelligence environments have gotten orders of magnitude more toxic watching and looking in the security enhanced, the capabilities have been enhanced. So you have a combination of a group like isis which has stepped beyond al qaeda and has called people to go out and stab and kill in some places or to organize more sophisticated places to take down tourist sites, to take down airports, to do other things. The agency in this, like whos controlling what, is a much more confused picture. I worry about echo effects in other countries. I think we need to be careful of our own presumptions of who is doing what. I think the world of terrorism could easily expand to more and more groups who just begin to mimic what they see unfold in dhaka today. It is a sad reality. Steve clemons, i know youve been with us all throughout the night. Thank you for anal skpysis and insights. Weve been constantly relying on information coming to us from the ground in bangladesh. We want to cross over to the Planning Editor at the dhaka tribune. Hes been with us throughout the course of all of this tragic ordeal. Im being told that weve just lost him. So we want to cross over to cal perry, whos in the newsroom. Cal, there was a question that you and i were kind of discussing offline a little bit. This was about how much isis is able to control the news cycle. When you look at just the past couple of weeks from the attack in orlando, from the attacks in istanbul, and now this attack, there is this way that isis has the ability to shape so much of the global media narrative about security, about terrorism. And this is becoming so important in them spreading their message, right . Look at the week that we had. On tuesday, we saw that horrific attack on the istanbul airport. And for 48 hours, there was video on almost every media outlet of suicide bombers exploding there, the suicide vests inside that airport. On thursday evening, we had the Iraqi Department of defense, or the equivalent of the Iraqi Department of defense, putting out that video showing u. S. Air strikes on an isis convoy. That knocked those pictures from istanbul off the air. And then today, for 12 hours, we had a siege in dhaka that was clearly drawn out partly to get this kind of media attention. So really picking up where steve had left off, this is a way of spreading that ideology, not just on social media but on media, on Mainstream Media as well. We have spent the last 12 hours talking about the Islamic State, which may or may not be behind this attack. But in the eyes of many people, that doesnt really matter, right . They claim responsibility through one of these adjacent media outlets, and suddenly theyre on the front page again. Theyre above the fold. That, in many ways, is a victory for the Islamic State, daesh, however you want to refer to them, and its something we have to be mindful of. This is a battle thats take is place not only on the ground in places like dhaka, in places like istanbul, but its taking part in nuewspapers and television stations around the world. Cal, i know youve monitored this as well. And certainly having lived and traveled in the middle east and other parts of the world, how does this have an impact into the overall isis strategy in terms of how it radicalizes, how it recruits, how it draws people to the fight, or how it even inspires people to carry out attacks . Listen, we talk so often about people feeling ostracized from the community that theyre in. Whether thats a muslim person living here in the United States, who is feeling ostracized from a community in orlando, or whether thats a taxi driver in jordan who feels he is out of place with the sort of mainstream muslim beliefs of that country. This is a providing individuals around the world, who have difficulties for any ub of reasons, a place to go, a home, something to make the incident, the attack, the horrific nature of whatever it is theyre carrying out it gives it more meaning. Look at orlando, for example. There were any number of things that lay behind the reasons that that gunman went into that club and carries out that vicious attack. But he took time to call 911 and declare his allegiance to isis, whether or not he had anything to do with the Islamic State or this was just inspired by things that he read online. That phone call to 911 provided him with more meaning for a horrific attack that he carried out in orlando. And, cal, lets talk a little bit about what this could possibly mean for u. S. Counterterrorism efforts to go after isis in this particular space, which is either online propaganda or recruitment or even, you know, through various media. How do you see a situation where the u. S. Government could recapture that narrative as you mentioned with that video, for example, in iraq . Well, its not so simple as just hopping on twitter and starting to start of refute some of these statements. It goes much deeper than that. This is about international development. This is about international aid. This is about changing the narrative thats being created in the middle east, a narrative that the u. S. Has long fought over the past decade since the war in iraq. This is a narrative that the u. S. Has gone to Great Lengths to correct since the war in iraq. And its going to take time, and its going to take reaching out to these nations, finding partners. We talk so often about countries like jordan, countries like lebanon. U. S. Military aid to the Lebanese Armed forces has increased dramatically in the past few months. That is a willing support from the United States, a message, not just a symbolic one, but a very real message that we are with them in their fight against isis. We cant forget, right, there are arab countries out there that are on the front lines against this fight, against isis in the region. All right. Msnbcs cal perry. Hes been us throughout the course of the evening, monitoring this situation. Were going to take a quick break. 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Malcolm, you know, weve watched the situation unfold, and weve been talking about the implications of what this means, you know, from isis perspective. But lets talk about what this means from a u. S. Perspective. What is this going to change for the United States in its global map of combating isis . Well, theres two components to that. Theres going to be the actual practicality on the ground reality of how we carry out Counterterrorism Operations and how well assist bangladesh to do that. And then theres the political dimension here in the United States which is going to jump onto this and is going to take this and view it as part of a massive continuum of terrorism attacks that have never been seen before in history. We all have been here during the 9 11 period, and those of us in counterterrorism understand that these things do occur in waves. This week we are seeing a series of attacks that have gone on, that have been attributed to the Islamic State of iraq and syria, and we understand that, that, you know, were in this International Battle with them, and were throwing punches at each other. The United States, on the other hand, has managed to kill almost 23,000 of those fighters in the last two years, and pressuring the Islamic State to the point its ready to collapse. So what will we be doing . The United States special Operation Command will probably be the First Organization tasked out right now to send trainers from out of qatar to bangladesh to give them advice, training, and assistance in case theres a followon attack that could occur there. And then the u. S. State department will coordinate the fbi and other operations and to go over there to study these attacks and, of course, give as much support to bangladesh. So bangladesh has now novembemo to a tier one player on the u. S. Counterterrorism support, certainly in the Indian Subcontine subcontinent. Im going to talk to you about your points about what this means on the political front in the United States in the middle of an election season. I want to go overseas real quickly to get a quick update. Joining me now by phone is New York Times south asia correspondent who is covering the story from mumbai along with her colleague on the ground in d dhaka . What can you shed light on in terms of what has unfolded in operation over the last several hours . We know that army troops in several dozen Armored Vehicles approached the restaurant and stormed it. There was gunfire, and there were explosions for about 40 minutes. Then ambulances rushed from the restaurant scene. About 200 relatives and friends were outside the restaurant. Many some of them text messaging with the hostages inside, and weeping afterwards when they lost contact and when they didnt get any more messages. Do you know any more about the fate of the hostages in terms of how many were in there, how many have been injured, how many have been rescued alive, and how many may have lost their lives . We heard from a Senior Police source that at least 12 people have been rescued. Some of them foreigners. We dont know how many died. The government isnt saying that as yet. But there were definitely some deaths. And, gita, i wanted to ask you as well a question i posed to one of our earlier guests. Youre obviously in mumbai covering this. Theres going to be some implication for india as a result of what has happened in bangladesh, not because in any way, shape, or form that it is involved, but its hard to discuss security in Southeast Asia, particularly on the subcontinent, without discussing what this means for india. What role do you think india may be playing now either in helping bangladesh cope through this through its own experiences . What has been the sense of the reaction from the government there from what youve been hearing . India and bangladesh have had a close relationship under both current governments. But its a relationship that quite quiet about because india is so controversial in bangladesh, especially amongst fundamentalist types and the growing radicalized population, especially because during the last month, there have been a lot of hindu priests and other hindus killed in the continuous hacking deaths. India is on heightened alert. The Indian Government has been reaching out and is quite concerned about the sudden turn of events in which hindus have been targeted in these machete attacks. It started just with bloggers. Its expanded to other people, and lately its been focused on hindus. And of course india is majority hindu. What direction do you think this may have in terms of shaping the current policies of the Bangladeshi Government . Is this going to push them in a direction where we are going to see a crackdown both on political islamist organizations that theyve been dealing with on the fringes of their political system, or do you think were going to see a massive change in the way the state is approaching security and counterterrorism . I mean we just saw a massive crackdown in which more than 10,000 people were arrested. That was two weeks ago. And then we have this attack. What everyone im speaking to is hoping this will do is convince the government to work more closely with the u. S. , india, and other countries that are specialists in dealing with the International Terror groups. The government i mean we hear the government has been working with the other governments, but the hope is that this will convince the government that international groups, International Terror groups are a force there and need to be focused on and not to see this solely as local groups wreaking havoc. And you certainly know the lay of the land of the government in bangladesh and in india much better than i do. But would you say that the government in bangladesh was aware or at least was treating the risk or threat of transnational terrorist organizations like isis and al qaeda seriously, or were they shunning it or maybe turning a blind eye to how much it had grown over the past couple of years . Its hard to tell. Publicly they were denying the presence of International Terror groups. But when we spoke to individual Senior Police, they were not. They were just saying its more complicated. They were saying that these weve had local militant groups terrorizing the population for two decades, and that those local groups evolve, and their affiliations change. And so they may be affiliated now with International Terror groups, but we need to fight them on the ground as local groups and clamp down locally. And they were making the International Connection sound more tenuous than perhaps the were. I take it that the presence of foreign fighters is probably not very common in an environment like bangladesh, that most of these elements, most of these extremist elements are indigenous or organic from within Bangladeshi Society itself. Yes. Theyre from Bangladeshi Society themselves. Sometimes influenced by people who have left. They were heavily influenced by people who went to afghanistan to fight and then returned and radicalized their friends and relatives. And there are some leading bangladeshi isis fighters. Whether theyre communicating locally with locals in bangladesh has been the subject of intense debate because the isis leaders from bangladesh left decades ago. Local police were telling us, look, they dont think they were communicating because people who left dont even speak bangla. And the people that they thought were involved locally dont speak english. And they werent sure how they would be communicating. Very quickly, geeta, if i can, last question for you. Talk to us about the freedom of expression or freedom of space, if you will, for, you know, issues like Internet Freedom and usage in bangladesh. Is it relatively free the media . I mean when we talk about radicalization, we talk about at least in the context here in the west. A lot of it happens online, and in private chat rooms, in things out of the shadow or in the shadows, so to speak, of online. The deep web, the dark web. Does that exist in bangladesh . Do they have Free Internet usage . Is that where the radicalization is happening for groups like this . They do have free media, so it is happening on the internet. But its also happening on the ground. There is a lot of madrasas and a lot of nonprofits that have sprung up, funded by saudi arabia and other nonprofits in other parts of the world that preach very conservative type of islam. Right. So, you know, its happening from both directions on the internet as well as on the ground. All right. Geeta, the New York Times correspondent in mumbai, next to bangladesh. Thank you very much for your insights. Stay with us. Were going to have a lot more when committe back right after break. Its a big one. Too bad. We are double booked diarrhea and abdominal pain. Why dont you start without me . Oh. Yeah. If youre living with frequent, unpredictable diarrhea and abdominal pain, you may have Irritable Bowel Syndrome with diarrhea, or ibsd. A condition that can be really fstrating. Ta to your doctor about viberzi, a different way to treat ibsd. Viberzi is a Prescription Medication you take every day that helps proactively manage both at the same time. Minal pain so you stay ahead of your symptoms. Viberzi can cause w or worsening abdominal pain. 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Weve been following the extended coverage of the dhaka siege. I want to cross over to my colleague, cal perry, who has been following this throughout the course of the evening with us from our newsroom. Cal, you have some new information youre just getting. Just want to give you a quick look at whats happening in japan. Officials are briefing the media there. Its starting to emerge that a number of nationals who were in this siege were japanese. In the coming 24, 48 hours, well have a better idea of other nationalities. The word is starting to filter out. Malcolm nance, lets talk very briefly as to where bangladesh goes forward and, more importantly, what this means for us here in the United States. Im going to put you on the spot by telling you were a little short on time. But give me your final thoughts. Well, bangladesh is really going to change after this. The government was trying out its secularization campaign. They were getting significant push back from Islamist Groups. The question is now can they rally those Islamist Groups to reject this immense violence thats occurred inside their country and, of course, bring that to crush whatever naturent isis organization is cropping up there. All right. Malcolm nance. Youve been watching extended coverage of the hostage situation in dhaka, bangladesh, a situation that has now ended according to police on the ground. Stay with us for much more throughout all of this ordeal. Im Ayman Mohyeldin here at msnbc World Headquarters in new york. One coat, yes there is a day, for every number. There is a time, for all my slumbers. One coat guaranteed marquee interior. Behrmost advanced paint. Get the best paints and stains for any budget and now save 10 or 40 bucks. Only at the me depot. Afdave stops working, but his ale doesnt. Because aleve can last 4 hours longer than tylenol 8 hour. What will you do with your aleve hours . Good luck with the meeting today. Thank you. 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This is msnbcs breaking coverage of the dramatic news unfolding in bangladesh. Its late saturday morning in dhaka. A short time ago special Security Forces launched an assault on the holey artisan bakery after a standoff with armed militants Holding Dozens of people hostage. Were told commandos participated in the operation. Police are now telling msnbc news all the gunmen have been killed. Were told by journalists on the ground that 14 hostages were rescued. Another report states that 34 people were transported to a local area hospital