Transcripts For MSNBCW The Rachel Maddow Show 20140822

From the store, although he made no effort to conceal the fact that he was doing so. He picked up two sodas, two Energy Drinks then walked out of the store without paying. The young man then reportedly, after he left the store, he came back into the store and took another item off the shelf and, again, left the store without paying. The store employee on duty right then reportedly spoke with the young man, told him he needed to pay for these items. The young man did not. And at that point, somebody at that store contacted police. Police say they also got a second 911 call from a st. Louis alderwoman who was at her own business nearby. She saw the incident happen. She called police as well. Apparently, she described this young man to police as behaving erratically on the street in front of the store. Police say she reported to police that the young man was holding a knife. And the video youre about to see here was shot by a bystander. Somebody who happened to be walking by and noticed what was going on and at this point in the timeline, this video apparently shows what happened next after the police were called. And the young man in question here, youll see in just a moment, hes wearing khaki pants, some sort of dark colored cardigan or sweatshirt over what looks to be a white crewneck shirt. You see him there on the curb. And what you see him put down there on the curb, those apparently are the two sodas, two Energy Drinks he took from the Convenience Store. The young man is walking back and forth. He apparently purposely sat down the two items, two sodas he stole from the store. Hes not drinking them, not hiding them, certainly not making an effort to get away, to run off with them or anything. Hes put those things down on the curb. Hes walks back and forth, stalking back and forth. Im just going to im going to let this run here for a second and youll hear the guy whos shooting the video sort of narrate what it is that he is seeing. And the man whos shooting the video swears sometimes when hes talking so weve taken out the swear words. You will not hear those. Basically, what appears to have happened is this guy taking the video has come upon this scene, hes narrating whats going on. Hes kind of making fun of this young man or at least verbally observing and describing what he thinks is this mans odd behavior and what appears to be happening is this young man appears to know and these observers appear to know that the police are on their way. This incident at this point has resulted in him putting those apparently stolen items down on the street. And its about to result in the police arriving and confronting that young man over what happened in the store. Everybody seems to be in on that fact at this point in the video. Watch. Just offered two sodas a drink. He straight put them on the ground, bro, like daring someone to touch them. This is not how you do it, bro. You know what im saying . This is not how you do it, bro. The police going to pull up. Going to call the police . Hes bagging up. Hes got his gun out. Oh. [ muted ] oh. Oh. [ muted ] and we have frozen the video right there at that instant as late as we can because it is the policy of msnbc and nbc news that we do not show video of people being killed on camera. But what happens immediately after this instant is the Police Open Fire on this young man. Both police shoot at him. They fire in very quick succession. Again, both officers fire. You can clearly hear the distinct sound of at least nine shots being fired. The metropolitan Police Department in st. Louis says that both officers fired six shots for a total of 12. On the tape you can clearly hear nine, and all nine of those shots that you can hear are fired within three seconds. And the entire incident from when police pull up to the curb, and when they fire those shots and they stop firing, that entire incident, the entire length of time from when they arrive on the scene to when they have fired those shots and the man is on the ground, a grand total of 23 seconds. The entire incident. The officers have their guns drawn from the getgo as you can see when they pull up. And in significantly less than 30 seconds, the Police Arrive at that scene, the young man says to them something that sounds like, shoot me, shoot me now. The police continually give them verbal orders. The young man moves toward the officers in the way you can see in the video, then at least nine bullets are fired and the young man died at the scene. The police say the young man was holding a knife. They say they recovered a knife that was described as Something Like a steak knife from the scene. Once they had shot the young man and he was lying on the ground, as youll see in this next part of the footage, the bystanders, including what appears to be the man shooting the video, they seem to be upset when theyre observing the police roll the young man over after he was already on the ground shot. They roll him over and handcuff him. We do not know if the young man was dead at this point that they rolled him over and handcuffed him, but the bystanders clearly thought that he was. Oh, here we go again. [ muted ] they just killed this man. [ muted ] hes dead. Look how theyre flipping him over when hes already dead, man. Thats messed up, dog. Theyre putting him in cuffs. Oh, my god. They just killed this man. He didnt have a gun on him. Theyre cuffing him. Why are they cuffing him . Theyre cuffing him. He already dead. He already dead. You all see this for yourself. The man is already dead. Theyre cuffing him. Theyre cuffing him. I got everything on camera. From the time it started and everything. Oh, my god. They just killed them, yall. We blurred the young mans body on the street, as you can see there. The Police Shooting of keijieme powell on tuesday of this week, police said he was 23 years old, it turns out he was 25 years old. This happened tuesday of this week, happened ten days into a community crisis, in some ways a National Crisis over another fatal Police Shooting of a young black man in the st. Louis area. The shooting of Kajieme Powell, we have this remarkable video account, this took place in west st. Louis, less than four miles from where 18yearold Michael Brown was killed by ferguson, missouri, police, the previous weekend. Even as the anger and upset and protests have continued over the killing of Michael Brown, there has not been nearly as much protest in this immediately adjacent community about north st. Louis after this other more recent Police Shooting, and part of that may be Community Perceptions about the merits of the shooting, itself. The one we just showed you. And whether or not the police were justified in this shooting. Particularly theres that Crucial Detail where the police say that he had a knife. Part of it may also be the transparency with which the st. Louis Police Department has treated this matter. Less than 90 minutes after Kajieme Powell was shot by st. Louis Police Officers, less than an hour and a half later, the st. Louis city police chief was out there a the site of the shooting giving an official Police Account of what happened and he immediately thereafter took questions. So what we know right now is that we have a suspect who was involved in a theft, who was department was contacted. Acted erratically. Armed with a knife. Police officers responded. When they responded, the suspect did not respond to verbal commands to drop his weapon. He approached both officers. When he closed within three, four feet of the knife, in what was described as an overhand grip, the officers fired their weapon. Any questions . Again, that was less than 90 minutes after the Police Shooting. Now that this video has emerged, there are empirical questions to consider about whether or not the Police Chiefs description of how the shooting happened comports with the Video Evidence that we now have in terms of, for example, how close the young man was to the officers and whether any knife that the suspect may or may not have had was, in fact, a lethal threat to those officers in the way that this young man may have had it in his hand. Whether the Police Officers used an appropriate amount of force based on what they thought the threat was. There are empirical questions to consider, right . And, again, it is remarkable to see this entire altercation start and end within 23 seconds of Police Officers arriving on the scene. Within 23 seconds, they have arrived at the curb and somewhere between 9 and 12 shots have been fired and the man is dead. But the fact remains that the police chief was there, barely more than an hour after the shooting happened on the scene to give the departments official description of what happened, to take press questions right away. When it emerged that there was bystander video of what happened, that bystander video was obtained by the police, by the st. Louis city police, and it was the Police Department that then released this video publicly. Apparently without any sort of editing, although we cannot say that for sure. We obtained this video from the police. We did not have to obtain it through other means. Today, we directed a series of followup questions to the st. Louis metropolitan police about the shooting and about what is depicted in the video. The department responded almost immediately to our questions. We asked them if the officer in the incident had dashcam video recorders or uniform cam video recorders. We said, if not, do other st. Louis Police Officers have them . The police got back to us quickly with the response, answered directly, said the officers patrol vehicle was not equipped with a dash camera. Some patrol vehicles are, but this one was not. None of our officers were body cameras. We asked is there other video other than the cell phone video the Department Released . Again, a quick response, they say they have obtained another cell phone video but say the incident, itself, was not captured on the video. Okay. We also asked, were the officer in the indictment armed with tasers . Answer from the department, yes, the officers in this incident did have tasers. But obviously they did not choose to use them. They went straight for the lead. Yes, the officers had tasers. Yes, they did not use them. And the st. Louis police chief, sam dotson answered questions about why his officers did not use the tasers that they had instead of their guns. When he was asked a similar question this morning on cnn. Certainly a taser is an option thats available to the officers, but tasers arent 100 . So youve got an individual armed with a knife whos moving toward you, not listening to any verbal commands, continues, says, shoot me now, kill me now. If the taser misses, the suspect continues on and hurts an officer. The st. Louis city police chief, sam dotson speaking with cnn, i said this morning. That was late last night. This Police Shooting and the tape of it, this lightning escalation from guy stealing soda, to guy putting soda on the curb apparently, to guy shot multiple times by two Police Officers, and the guy ending up being dead on the sidewalk less than 30 seconds after police are on the scene, that lightning escalation, that is a horrible thing its just i mean, regardless of what you think happened, its a horrible thing to witness, because however you feel about the police use of force here and the police rules of engagement in situations like this, whether or not this was justified, right . This unequivocally, regardless of how you feel about the legality of this, it is a horrible thing to witness because a young man lost his life. In a tinderbox community, though, the st. Louis police seem to have averted mass protest and even potential of civil unrest over this kind of shooting simply by virtue of talking about it immediately. Being transparent. Making so much Information Available so quickly and so widely and without complaint. Contrast that with the neighboring Police Department right over the city line from north st. Louis in ferguson, where we are now 12 days into what has been a civic crisis of significant magnitude over the shooting of 18yearold Michael Brown. The ferguson Police Department still has not released a Police Report from the shooting of Michael Brown. They did release a full Police Report and video and stills from what they admit is an unrelated incident in which the shooting victim, Michael Brown, they say, was implicated in a theft at a Convenience Store earlier in the day on the day Police Killed him. They released all of that, but no Police Report still to this day from the shooting of Michael Brown. They still have also not released the autopsy results from the county autopsy of Michael Brown. Today, the ferguson Police Department turned down a request from nbc news to please see the personnel file of the officer whos been named as the shooter of Michael Brown. The only thing they would release is his name, the day he was hired and his salary. They would not release any other details from his police file. The one substantive Police Excuse me, the one substantive piece of information that the ferguson Police Department did decide to release about the officer implicated in this shooting, the one piece of information they have decided to release was this video that they released today showing the officer in question receiving a commendation from the city council for good police work. That was what they released today about the officer involved in this shooting. Still, though, no Police Report, still no autopsy, still, though, on day 12, at least as of night 11 last night, things do seem to have calmed down some in terms of the level of protest and upset on ferguson streets. Today, missouri governor jay nixon ordered that the Missouri National guard start withdrawing from the streets of ferguson after being deployed there for four days. The resolution here, though, is going to be a long haul, and it seems clear that nobody quite knows what to expect over the long haul. You can see some of the, i guess the continuing turmoil, at least the continuing uncertainty, the continuing tension, you could see it today at the Justice Center to clayton, missouri. Local elected officials and Community Leaders today tried to turn in a batch of petition signatures, 70,000 signatures asking for the county prosecutor to recuse himself from the Michael Brown case because the community does not want him on the case. They want a special prosecutor to be appointed to take this case instead. Even that very civil inside the system kind of activism today in broad daylight at the Justice Center, even that today could not happen without real tension and without some real upset. Ill accept them for you then we have a statement from mr. Mcculloch to hand to you. You need people to help you take them up. Thats right no, we want to take them up. Mr. Mcculloch is not available. This is a state official. I know. Mr. Mcculloch is not available. This is the first weve heard of this morning. We just want to take them to the office. We have a few people here. I know. And this is a public entity. Yes, i know. This is our First Amendment right. Im an elected official. I know. Senator for the state of missouri. Yes, maam. How dare you tell me i cant go maam, maam. This is a public building. Youre going to be arrested. Its a public building. What youre doing is illegal. Its a public building. She is a state senator. Dont touch me. Maam. Dont touch her. Joining us now is kenny murdock, host of the murdock report on wgmu. Mr. Murdock, thank you for being with us. A pleasure to have you here. Hi, rachel, its a pleasure to be on your show. Let me ask you about the footage that has now been released from the Police Shooting that took place on tuesday. Im wondering, have the you know, we watched these two shootings having such different reactions in north st. Louis and in ferguson. Do you think that the video thats been released is going to change any of the Community Reaction to that shooting . And how do you see the difference in the way these two shootings have been responded to . Well, i think theres a lot of issues happening here. This new video of another politician shooting has thrown another stick on our already burning fire which has the community wondering what happens when you give local Police Officers so much firepower they start to think like soldiers and forget theyre peace officers. Many people in the community are concerned that they dont know what anymore constitute an escalation of force. We saw the video, and the Police Officers said there was some kind of overhand knife grip and attack and the video doesnt quite show that, so once again theres this room for fantasy, because there seems to be a long time for the wheels of justice to come around when the community is wanting answers. We want grand jury indictments on one case and quicker moving wheels of justice and dashboard cameras and things that would help the community be assured from primary sources of information that Police Officers are acting like peace officers and not like soldiers. Looking at things over the course of last night, and late night last night and through today, seeing the declining number of arrests. Knowing you and i can have a conversation right now without you having to shout over protesters like ive had to do sometimes over the course of the last few days when weve been talking to people on that same spot. It does seem like things are calmer now on the streets. Do you think thats just a surface indication, do you think the upset is sort of still the same, its just manifesting differently . How do you think this is going to play out over the next few days and weeks . I think the streets are very tense right now, and i think a lot of citizens dont really understand the on the mike brown case, the grand jury process and how long that can take, and on the new case, the powell being shot case, a lot of people are just more concerned, is it safe to be out on the street or interact with Law Enforcement . Its a shame we have seniors right here in ferguson where im standing now scared to get their medicine and things like that and have higherup politicians like our Lieutenant Governor playing word games against the governor, when seniors need his help right now. Theres a lot of complex issues right now. For those viewers of yours who believed in things like trickledown theory, ill let them know that ferguson and st. Louis city and st. Louis county have not felt this water from trickle down and when you have a mixture of both poverty and racism and systemic problems and police forcing agencies, then you create a toxic mix that we all need to unpack together. Kenneth murdock, host of the murdoch report on wgnu a. M. Radio joining us from ferguson. Thank you for being with us. Nice to see you. Thank you. Thank you very much, rachel. We have much more ahead including a report from Richard Engel and the latest adventures of the latest indicted republican serving governor in this country. Please stay with us. Lots to come tonight. vo ours is a world of passengers. The redeyes. daughter im really tired. vo the transfers. Well, thats kid number three. vo the copilots. All sitting. Trusting. Waiting. For a safe arrival. Introducing the allnew subaru legacy. Designed to help the driver in you. Care for the passenger in them. The subaru legacy. Its not just a sedan. Its a subaru. 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And now our latest creation breaks one more barrier. Presenting the cla. Starting at 29,900. Caman thanks, captain obvious. Wouldnt stay here tonight. Starting at 29,900. Captain obvious id get a deal for tonight with deals for tonight from hotels. Com. And you might want to get that pipe fixed. U. S. Military officials expected american air strikes against isis would be coming soon. And that isis would likely take its revenge on its american hostages, at least four of them, including reporter james foal foley. The president authorized a rescue mission, but the white house said the hostages were in danger with each passing day in custody. In early july, with an unspecified number of u. S. Warplanes providing cover, radarresistant helicopters crossed into syrian airspace. They headed north of the city of ruqqa, the isis strong hold, landing by an oil refinery. Delta force commandos killed several isis fighters in a gunfight, but the hostages were gone. The military had just missed them, officials say. Thats some of Richard Engels reporting from nbc nightly news tonight. The Washington Post has new detail on james foley, taken hostage in syria, beheaded by the sunni militant group isis in a video they posted online this week. The Washington Post is now reporting that newspaper had learned on its own that there had been an attempt made by u. S. Special operations troops inside syria to rescue jim foley and other hostages being held by isis. When the white house released that information that there had been that raid, when they released that information late yesterday, that there had been this raid by u. S. Forces inside syria and that it had not been successful because the hostages were not there when the teams landed, when they released that information, the National Security council said that they had not intended to ever release information about that raid. The only reason they did is because they felt forced to because Media Outlets had learned about the raid through other means and Media Outlets were about to report it. Well, the Washington Post now says that they had, in fact, inquired at the white house about that raid yesterday morning before the white house admitted to it yesterday afternoon. And then briefed a small group of reporters on exactly what happened. You may remember from the Osama Bin Laden raid in pakistan in 2011 that the navy s. E. A. L. S who carried out that mission were brought into pakistan and dropped at the bin laden come pain in abbottabad by black hawk helicopters that had been heavily armed and heavily modified presumably to avoid turning up on radar as they sprinted across the border for the secret mission in a place where u. S. Forces were not supposed to be operating. The same thing was reportedly done on this raid inside syria, the same u. S. Army 160th special Operations Aviation regiment. The group called the night stalkers. They, again, were called in for a stealth Helicopter Mission to ferry special Operations Forces into somewhere the United States does not admit they are going to. In the bin laden raid, it was s. E. A. L. Team 6, a development group. In this case, the National Security council says the special operators were a joint force from multiple services. They included Delta Force Commandos and they flew in on these modified blackhawks. The New York Times reports that the raid included an exchange of fire with isis militants on the ground. They report that one of the special Operations Aircraft was fired at from the ground and one u. S. Commando was slightly wounded in that part of the incident. But ultimately there were no u. S. Casualties in that raid. Its the first time u. S. Forces have been on the ground during the Syrian Civil War as far as we know. There were no u. S. Casualties, there were also no hostages rescued. U. S. Officials told reporters intelligence is not an exact science. But we also now know that part of the intelligence that gave the white house the confidence to plan and okay that raid came from at least six european hostages who had been held by isis before but then were freed this spring. And those six european hostages were debriefed by u. S. Intelligence once they were out of isis captivity and they were safely out of syria. In march, it was journalists from spain who were released by isis after being held for months. The following month, in april, it was journalists from france who were released by isis. And there is this narrative out there that other militant groups around the world kidnap people for ransom but when isis does it its for other reasons. Isis kills for terror and propaganda but not for money. In the case of french and spanish journalists held by isis, released this spring and able to provide the intel for planning this raid, it appears that isis really was holding them for money. Because although the french and spanish and other European Countries dont admit to paying ransoms to terrorist groups like isis and al qaeda in exchange for hostages, its widely known that they do. The u. S. And the uk do not pay ransom for hostages, but other countries do and those european journalists were released in march and april this spring and then apparently those european journalists were able to provide information to the u. S. Government to help the u. S. Government plan this raid. This raid that ultimately did not work. But it gave them the confidence to try. The ceo of global post where jim foley was working at the time he died, the ceo of global post says the released hostages were also able to tell that publication that there were more than a dozen european and american hostages being held in the same place as jim foley. He said that they told them they were being held in eastern syria. He also says they were very clear that their captors, the people actually holding them, were british. When jim foleys parents spoke publicly yesterday about their son and about losing him, one of the details they were able to share was that one of those freed european hostages had been able to bring them home a message from their son, jim. Jim foley could not get a letter sent to his family, but he wrote a letter to them while he was in captivity. He had one of his fellow hostages memorize the letter so that if and when that fellow hostage was ever freed, he could recite is from memory to jim foleys parents, john and diane foley. Were very sure now that he could feel the prayers and we think his strength came from god, strength we know it did. As a matter of fact, we are the only American Family that has never received a letter from jim. They apparently were all confiscated. So the last hostage to come out please yeah. Daniel, memorized a letter from jim. Within hours of his freedom, he was good enough to call and voice that letter to us. And it just spoke of his yearning to see all of us once again. So, anyway, so were very grateful for that. Within hours of his freedom, he called jim foleys parents to voice that letter to them that he had memorize. The parents of jim foley there who was murdered by isis militants. Jim foleys mom also shared in that statement that the other hostage who isis named in the execution video this week, they also threatened theyd behead if u. S. Air strikes dont stop in northern iraq, his name is Steven Sotloff. John and diane foley said yesterday Steven Sotloffs family had told them they should mention Steven Sotloff being a hostage when they made their statement yesterday, it was okay with them and, in fact, they wanted them to beg for his life publicly in the hope that that might spare Steven Sotloff. They also said the other american hostages being held by isis, being held with steven and jim, those families have decided to keep their loved ones anonymous in the hopes that that might be a strategy to try to keep them safe. There are more americans including Steven Sotloff who are still being held by the same group that killed jim foley. More americans and apparently british hostages as well and presumably more other europeans even though some europeans have been saved by the payment of ransom in the past. Including the very recent past. If the u. S. And the uk are not going to pay ransom for hostages, what else can be done to try to save them . What else can be done . We now know the details and why there was one raid already, a special operations raid to try to save those hostages. It did not succeed, but will they try again . Could they try again . This is a terrifying work in progress. And asked for less. Theres a reason its called an all you can eat buffet. And not a have just a little buffet. Because what we all really want is more. Thats why verizon is giving you even more. Now, for a limited time, get more data 1 gb of bonus data every month with every new smartphone or upgrade. Our best ever pricing with the more everything plan and 50 off all new smartphones. Like the htc one m8 for windows or android. Built to inspire envy. Come get your more with verizon. Yeah . Om. We got allstate, right . Uhhuh. Yes well, i found this new thing. Called Allstate Quickfoto claim. Its an app. You understand that . Just take photos of the damage with your phone and upload them to allstate. Really . 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Vo are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed . Wealth management at Charles Schwab behold. Texas governor rick perry noted lover of guns. This is rick perry firing off a six shooter at an event in downtown ft. Worth, texas, back in april 2010 and really enjoying himself as he does so. Turns out, though, that guns and gun owners who are under indictment, those are two things that do not always mix well. And that unexpected story is next. Stay with us. This is charlie. His long day of doing it himself starts with back pain. And a choice. Take 4 advil in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. Honey, you did it baby laughs where the reward was that what if tnew car smelledit card and the freedom of the open road . A card that gave you that im 16 and just got my first car feeling. Presenting the buypower card from capital one. Redeem earnings toward part or even all of a new chevrolet, buick, gmc or cadillac with no limits. So every time you use it, youre not just shopping for goods. Youre shopping for something great. Learn more at buypowercard. Com in the nation, the safest feature in your car is you. Add vanishing deductible from nationwide insurance and get 100 off for every year of safe driving. Which for you, shouldnt be a problem. Just another way we put members first, because we dont have shareholders. Join the nation. Nationwide is on your side. January 2012, night of the iowa caucuses, thenrepublican president ial hopeful rick perry finished fifth place. Rick perry got into president ial race with all of this anticipation, all of this fanfare. I totally thought he was going to win it. But it turned out to be a terrible candidate, came in fifth place in iowa, and then that night he announced he was returning home to texas and he was going to reassess his campaign. And thats how you say, im quitting in president ial politics. You say, im going to reassess my campaign. In rick perrys case, he apparently really was just planning to reassess his campaign because the very next day he tweeted out this remarkable photo of himself jogging. Saying this, the next leg of the marathon is the palmetto state. Here we come, south carolina. That tweet and that picture was his official announcement that he was staying in the race. Now, what was not clear from the photo of jogging, spandexclad rick perry was whether or not in that moment he was carrying a lasersighted. 38 caliber ruger pistol because hes known to take one of those along with him whenever hes out on a light run. Two years prior when jogging in his neighborhood outside of austin, governor perry reportedly gunned down a coyote with a single hollowpoint bullet while he was out jogging. Since the governor has a concealed carry permit, he was able to take the predator by surprise. If youre wondering how a person jogs and carries a laser sighted. 38 caliber pistol at the same time, were told he apparently carries it in a belt. Im guessing it its more like a fanny pack, but the official line is its a gun belt that he wears while jogging. Okay. But for a guy whose laser sighted pistol is important enough to him he carries it even while jogging, imagine how upsetting it might be now that governor rick perry is in the process right this second of losing his concealed carry handgun permit. At least he ought to be in the process of losing it. The Austin American statesman reports this week by virtue of being indicted for a crime for which the potential punishment is more than a year in prison, governor rick perry of texas has now lost the right to purchase any new guns and any new ammunition. He also cannot receive new guns or ammunition as gifts. In case you were thinking of it. The state department of public safety, when notified about this kind of indictment, theyre also supposed to contact the governor to tell him that his concealed handgun license is also being suspended. Until the conclusion of this case. As the statesman says this week, cue the cheering coyotes. Governor rick perrys twopart felony indictment was filed friday. Tuesday he got his mugshot taken, minus his usual glasses. Tomorrow hes due to be arraigned in court in austin although the governor is not is expected to be there personally for the arraignment. Hes expected, instead, to be in New Hampshire where he quite obviously if not officially will be campaigning for president again. While under indictment. Rick perry thinks the felony indictment thing is no barrier to running for president right now. The national media, including the beltway media, conservative media, and much of the liberal media as well has settled on common wisdom now that the indictment really isnt that big a deal for rick perry, that it will have no problem beating the charges. Maybe it will even help him run for president somehow. You know what, in texas the grand jury that indicted him is pushing back on that now, pushing back on it hard saying they took their responsibilities seriously and the indictments indicate a serious and solid case against governor. Texas papers like the Dallas Morning News are editorializing, hey, not so fast, this case is for real, it deserves a real hearing. The same paper which incidentally is the largest paper in the state, this week they published a top story about how two other texas District Attorneys were arrested and convicted on dwi incidents while they were in office as d. A. S and rick perry was in office as governor, but when those d. A. S had dwis, governor perry said nothing. Thats important because it raises questions about why the governor did get so upset and demand a resignation and threaten a veto and then, in fact, issue a veto of state funding in reaction to this one d. A. Getting in the same kind of trouble. A dwi. Rick perrys veto of state funding in that d. A. s office, veto of state funding as retaliation against that democratic d. A. , thats the heart of the felony charges against him. That d. A. Earned his ire and his veto of state funding, even when other d. A. S in the same predicament did not. I should mention the other d. A. S who had dwis that rick perry didnt care about, those d. A. S were republicans. The one he retaliated against is a democrat, and a democrat who also happens to run out of her office the unit that investigates ethics for texas state officials. The knee jerk National Press reaction has been to write off this indictment as no big deal for rick perry. It should be noted that a lot of people in texas are saying not so fast. Joining us, wayne slater for the Dallas Morning News. Great to see you. Thanks for being here. Great to be here, rachel. So youve been writing about this recently about the sort of conventional wisdom which is now sort of the beltway wisdom, too, on the perry indictment, that its just a smear campaign, that hes got nothing to worry about. Why do you think that narrative has developed . I think the big reason is because especially folks at a distance, in the beltway, thoughtful folks, smart people, people who understand politics, seize first on the politics, and rick perry has been very successful at framing the narrative right out of the box, this is politics. Partisan politics attack. So the conventional wisdom has emerged that says, what happened here was the governor vetoed some money, as governors are allowed to do, for a District Attorney who is a democrat, and the democrats in the democratic county came after him in an unfair attack. So i think you look at the politics. Its an easy message, and in politics, Bumper Stickers will beat a position paper any time, and the Bumper Sticker argument this is all politics has been very persuasive. It doesnt seem like that narrative is at least as uniformly held in texas as it is starting to be in the beltway press, and maybe im oversimplifying in terms of how the beltway is viewing this. I certainly look at this indictment and think its at least interesting and not something to write off. Do you feel like there are the nuances about whos involved in bringing this case or about what the actual charges are against the governor that are appreciated in texas, that maybe havent translated so far to a National Stage . Yeah, absolutely. And i dont want to say that folks elsewhere, beltway or otherwise, are all wrong. Some of the elements, some of the facts are right, but theyre not complete. When you begin looking at this as we in texas do, have a clearer sense, details of the case, you learn this other stuff. We know this other stuff. For example, is this a political attack by partisan democrats who go after rick perry . The Travis County District Attorney is not prosecuting rick perry. She has recused herself. This prosecution is being handled basically by republicans. A republican judge appointed by george w. Bush to the state bench when bush was governor, who appointed a special prosecutor who, himself, was a federal prosecutor in the administration of father bush, bush 41, and who has the support, had the support of our texas two republican senators, john cornyn and kay bailey hutchison, when he was considered for u. S. Attorney job. The whole prosecution is being done by republicans, so the claims that its a democrat, a smear job, simply doesnt hold up. Also, the claim that perrys making is this is about a veto. Its actually not about a veto. Its about more than a veto. Its about the allegation of coercion. Its basically that you use state money, the prosecution says, in order to try to muscle a duly elected state official, county official out of Office Despite what her local voters thought about whether that ought to happen. Its as if youre saying, look, a vetos legal, and you can say, i wish somebody would leave office. Thats free speech. But you may not be able to link the two. As if a Campaign Contribution is legal and you can ask somebody to do something, but the moment you link these two legal acts involving coercion, persuasion, or bribery, and in this case, abuse of authority is the allegation, then you have problems. Rick perry has bigger problems than the sort of conventional wisdom suggests. I see it that way as well. I think its because ive been reading you and reading the texas press and reading the texas press across multiple different outlets and multiple different papers from multiple different perspectives, seems like texas is taking this more seriously than everybody else is. I think on this one, you guys are definitely right. Wayne slater, senior Political Writer for the Dallas Morning News. Thanks for helping us sort it out, wayne. I appreciate it. Good to be with you. As people look at rick perry as a potential 2016 contender, taking a New Hampshire trip tomorrow, people talk about this indictment. If youre thinking about looking at whether or not rick perry is a viable 2016 contender and thinking about looking at these indictments as part of that, get behind the pay wall, right . Pay for subscriptions to the texas publication of your choice. Start reading texas papers on this. 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Like the htc one m8 for windows or android. Built to inspire envy. Come get your more with verizon. Okay. For the first time ever, and hopefully the last, this is the worst new thing in the world today. Today marks the end of an era in our shows almost six years of history. Today our staff said goodbye to this guy, our executive producer bill walsh, the man who invented the show. Today is bills last day. Hes leaving us. And hes not leaving us for any bad reason. Bill apparently got some sweet new job with a much better schedule. We hate for him that and will hate him forever. We are happy that alison and isaac will get to see more of him now. You may not know how important an executive producer is. A lot of what these guys do happens behind the scenes but they shape the editorial vision of the show, they run interference with the management, when necessary. An executive producer has to tend to the care of needily hosts from time to time. Bill has done all that and a lot more. As the actormanager, bill has been our whaling boat captain and russian spy and our alleged meter thief who stuffed his pants with quarters. He was our orange skinned congressman handing out tobacco lobby checks. Hes been our alpha and our omega. Hi, everybody. Rachel has a wellearned night off tonight, but there are things going on in this world worth knowing on this not exactly holiday, not exactly workday. Thats why im wearing a necktie. We were hoping to tell to the story and he said, what show do you represent . I said the Rachel Maddow show. He said thats unacceptable. Thats unacceptable was his response to you saying the name of the show . Yes. I was getting the feeling it wasnt going to happen then. Bill was unable to answer my question today because he was playing the part of a flamingo. Excuse me, havent we met last summer in california . No. Seriously, come on. That is bill wolf in a wolf tshirt. Are you literally in a bar with 100 people . We are literally in a bar. My dad is here watching my only marketable job skill, leaning on a bar. This crazy race for the senate in alaska. Its almost settled. This is already the best day of my life. Anything for my job. Its all in the name of journalism. Oh, dear god. You have done it. Thank you so much. Thats horrible. I got sick as a dog, literally. I couldnt get out of bed. It felt like people with ball peen hammers were behind my head going for like 22 hours. But its okay, because i have a 2yearold son. So you couldnt go, but you got somebody else to cover for us . Thats exactly right. I think the best way to tell you is just to show the tape. Hello, rachel. This is carol lynn wolf. Im bills mother. Bill couldnt come today. Hes not feeling well. You use fight songs to get yourself ready for this show every day . Yes, i do. If you follow our show online, bill does short videos promoting whats happening on the show every night. This is script ohio. Im not from ohio, im from missouri