>> congressman grimm after that kind of fell out of the headlines for a while. but then today. word that congressman grimm is about to be indicted on federal criminal charges. we've known that congresswoman grimm has been under investigation for potentially illegal campaign donations. in the 2010 race in which he first won his seat in congress. even though that investigation has resulted in the arrest of two of his fundraisers, a guilty plea by one to visa fraud charges, even though those two arrests have happened and that one guilty plea has already happened, it's not clear tonight that the campaign finance allegations that have been swirling around him for years are related to what he's about to be indicted on. a lawyer for mr. grimm said the charges are part of "a politically driven vendetta." he said mr. grimm is innocent, he will be vindicated. he said "mr. grimm will continue to serve his constituents until he is vindicated." there was no talk of him resigning from congress, despite the pending indictment. and the news today of the congressman's pending indictment on, the one hand, honestly, it feels like not that big of a deal. after all, he is a new york politician, and new york politicians are always getting indicted. usually, though, that is new york politicians in albany. in the state capitol, who are usually the ones getting indicted. michael grimm is an actual member of congress. he works in washington. and members of congress don't end up getting indicted and going to prison all that often. to be fair, actually, maybe that depends on the meaning of the phrase "all that often." former congressman jesse jackson jr. is in prison right now. the illinois democrat is serving 2.5 years for using campaign money to buy himself awesome stuff like, for example, one of michael jackson's old fedoras. also, former louisiana congressman william jefferson, also a democrat, he's serving 13 years for accepting nearly half a million dollars in bribes. they found some of that money in the back of his freezer wrapped in aluminum foil. republican rick renzi of arizona, he got sentenced to three years for corruption. he's currently out on appeal. at least he filed his campaign finance report this month. that was awkward. bob ney, ohio republican, two years and change for conspiracy and false statements in the jack abraham of scene lobbying scandal. james traficant, ohio democrat, he was the most amazing hair in the last 100 years in congress. james traficant, seven years for faked tax returns and taking bribes and racketeering and using his staffs for chores on his family farm and a bunch of other stuff. james traficant was the first member of congress sent to the big house in the 21st century. really he was only carrying on a very long and not-proud family tradition. before the old great "washington independent" went out of business, they left behind a list of criminal members of congress, god bless their defunct souls for doing it. you drop into the 19 points i90 got ten convicts, mel reynolds, for icky stuff. then the democrats, republicans, drunk drivers, the influence peddlers, the '80s were a mess in terms of members of congress going to jail. the 1970s were not that much better. george hanson, idaho republican convicted in 1975 for violating campaign finance laws. or frank brasko, new york democrat, convicted for conspiring to receive bribes. if you're looking for people who have gone from capitol hill to the husgow, it is a take-your-pick situation. if you want to go world war ii, take that. let's pick harry robotum because he's got an amazing name. the congressman from indiana convicted of taking brabs in 1931. sentenced to a year and a day. yet not every congressman who gets indicted, of course, ultimately gets convicted. there is news of a pending indictment of congressman michael grimm. but being indicted doesn't necessarily mean that you're guilty or that you're going to go prison. a lot of members of congress have been indicted or pursued, bulletly acquitted. tom delay of texas, aka "the hammer." he got convicted for money laundering in 2010. but last year on appeal he got acquitted. joseph mcdade of florida. he stood trial for bribery and racketeering in 1996. he was acquitted. so was harold ford sr. of tennessee, in 1993. not guilty on 18 counts of conspiracy, bank fraud, and mail fraud. he was indicted, tried. he was acquitted. being indicted, being charged does not mean you did it. does not mean you will be convicted by any means. congressman michael grimm today looks to be joining a long line of lawmakers who have been brought up on all kinds of charges with all kinds of outcomes. and it is not clear yet exactly what it is he is going to be indicted for. he first won his seat in congress back in 2010. part of why he pulled that off was because he raised way more money than anyone expected. a federal grand jury was convened in the summer of 2012 to consider allegations that maybe he raised some of that money illegally. the fbi's public corruption unit interviewed several grimm campaign workers. this past january the fbi arrested a former grimm fundraiser on charges that he illegally funneled thousands of dollars into that campaign. another key figure in the michael grimm fundraising world pled guilty, as i said last year, to visa fraud. one of the things that federal investigations reportedly has looked into is whether or not michael grimm or his campaign donors illegally got money for michael grimm's campaign from people who are not legally allowed to donate to a campaign because they are not u.s. citizens. because they are foreign citizens. but the news of his pending indictment tonight comes with conflicting reports about the possible charges. "politico".com broke the story originally. they reported that mr. grimm would be brought up on alleged campaign finance violations with expected charges for mail and wire fraud. the new york times followed the reporting, also describing expected charges of mail and wire fraud. but the "times" said they have nothing to do with his campaign finance, they have to do with a health food restaurant the congressman owned on the upper east side called health-alicious. a restaurant he owned after he ended his career as an fbi agent and before he ever ran for congress. nbc news tonight also says the charges are connected to his private dealings, private business dealings and not to campaign fundraising. but even before michael grimm threatened to throw that reporter off the balcony earlier this year, he really was his own particular brand of outstanding. another local reporter came forward after that to say that he, too, had been threatened by congressman grimm after an interview in december. the news brought back this account from "the new yorker" magazine a couple of years before about michael grimm's time as an fbi agent. according to that story, a furious then-fbi agent michael grimm allegedly told a man at a caribbean nightclub in new york city, "i'll make him bleeping disappear where nobody will find him." writer evan ratliff talked to someone that night who said mr. grimm left but later came back holding his gun and making threats. mr. grimm denied the accusations, he said he'd been jumped at the club and returned with the police for help. he said he'd been cleared of any wrongdoing, "i was 100% by the book and fully exonerated." a decade later he became the new york congressman from staten island, that is the apparently soon-to-be indicted congressman from this fair city. joining us is evan ratliff, following grille's career for a long time. >> great to be here. >> based on what you've covered on congressman grimm over the years, is this indictment the expected next step, or is this a real mystery in terms of what happened here? >> no, i think the indictment has been expected for a while now. and people that i've talked to sort of expected it to come down. but the question is what charges are involved and is it related to campaign finance, as you said, or is it related to some of his other business dealings. the truth is that since he's left the fbi and even since he's gone to congress, he has been sort of adjacent to so many accusations that you almost don't know which ones will be in the indictment. >> one of the things that has made him the kind of member of congress who you can pick out of a lineup, a guy who is memorable is, because of this volcanic temper. both the stories about his volcanic temper but also the on-camera evidence it. is that aspect of his personality key to the sorts of things that he has been associated with during all these different investigations and all these other -- both journalistic investigations and also legal ones? >> well, i would say a lot of the accusations are not strictly related to him having a serious temper which undoubtedly he does. that arose in my story. obviously arose with the new york 1 reporter, accusation that's he threatened people. but i think the idea that he was a bit untouchable is probably what crosses all of those, that the idea that you could threaten a new york one reporter and as a united states congressman and not get in trouble for it is the kind of thing that's connected it going into business with someone who, as he did in texas, who was convicted of fraud, another former fbi agent convicted of fraud of being involved with this restaurant which has violations for not carrying workman's comp insurance, like all of these things, the connective tissue is that when the accusations come out, grimm or his lawyers say this is a democratic plot. this is people out to get me. i'll be vindicated in the end. and so far, you know, he's been sort of like the teflon congressman. he hasn't, you know, hasn't been indicted for anything. but obviously now that's finally coming to a head. >> and to that point, his lawyer's response today was that he will be vindicated, that this is a plot. that there's no chance he's going to resign. he's going to stay in congress. there seems -- that's legal strategy in part. but he does have a pretty good record of having incredibly salacious allegations made against him in a number of venues and surviving and skating. is that because the allegations have been proven to be spurious? why does he keep getting away? >> well, in all these cases -- in most of the cases, they haven't actually been brought to trial. i mean, there is a lawsuit against them related to the health food restaurant in new york. and there have been accusation like, for instance, in my story, the guy that was threatened in the nightclub who was an nypd officer, he told me later that he had dropped the accusations because he'd been told it was bad for his career to pursue them. so, you know, oftentimes they're either -- one person away from him as in these campaign finance allegations, they don't quite get to him, or in other cases somehow it unravels before it get to, you know, a true indictment. >> can i just ask you to -- obviously reporting on congressman grimm's career is about to sort of get a lot more national attention once this indictment comes down. it's a high-profile thing to happen to a sitting congressman. >> as someone who has covered him, is it a scary or difficult thing to cover him compared to covering other people in public life or politics? we've seen him threaten other reporters in real time. is it something that people should know about? >> i would say my experience covering him was not that frightening. when i trayed to interview him at his congressional office, he did get angry and escorted me out. he didn't physically threaten me. i almost feel slighted that i didn't agitate him enough that he would physically threaten me. he does have a confidence, physical presence. he was in the marines. he was in the fbi. that's what got him into office, the fact that he carries himself that way and has that history. it's part of his appeal to his constituents, as well. so you know, the fact that that tips over into anger is -- that's where the problem arises. but i never personally witnessed that myself. >> evan ratliff, contributing writer for "the new yorker." thank you for spending your birthday with us tonight. this is -- this is a sad birthday party. i appreciate you before here. >> you're welcome. >> thank you. we've got a lot coming up tonight. if there were a mt. rushmore of plinl scanda-- of political sca would have to make room for something newly important in tonight's news. that's ahead. stay with us. ♪ [ dog barks ] ♪ [ male announcer ] imagine the cars we drive... being able to see so clearly... to respond so intelligently and so quickly, they can help protect us from a world of unseen danger. it's the stuff of science fiction... minus the fiction. and it is mercedes-benz... today. see your authorized dealer for exceptional offers through mercedes-benz financial services. add vanishing deductible from nationwide insurance and get $100 off for every year of safe driving. we put members first. join the nation. ♪ nationwide is on your side and that's epic, bro, we've forgotten just how good good is. good is setting a personal best before going for a world record. good is swinging to get on base before swinging for a home run. [ crowd cheering ] good is choosing not to overshoot the moon, but to land right on it and do some experiments. ♪ so start your day off good with a coffee that's good cup after cup. maxwell house. ♪ good to the last drop carsthey're why we innovate. they're who we protect. they're why we make life less complicated. it's about people. we are volvo of sweden. do you want a big, fanny wedding in denver, colorado? one of the options is the grant humphries mansion. pretty, right? in the national historic places, you can plan your wedding there, get the history of the mansion at history.colorado -- historycolorado.org. or if you don't want to go to historycolorado.org, you can go to hauntedhouses.com. the grant humidities from mansion on capitol hill in -- humphries mansion on capitol hill in denver is considered a haunted house. it was built in 1902 by the grant in grant humphries. the good day who died there, which is why -- the guy who died there, which is why everybody thinks it's haunted is the l., elbert humphries. a rich oil man. in the 1920s, a.e. humphries made the oil deal of a lifetime. he sold more than 300 million barrels of oil to a company that didn't really exist. and by using that fake company and this huge oil deal, he started the ball rolling on what was and remains one of the greatest american political scandals of all time those 300 million barrels of oil, he sold them to a whole bunch of oil executives. executives of other oil companies, for $1.50 a barrel. those oil executives then turned around and sold the same oil to their respective companies at $1.75 a barrel. and they kept the difference. they needed the fake companies, the middleman in order to disguise that they were keeping the markup. and that markup was a huge deal. in the 1920s, that deal produced an $8.3 million slush fund for these guys. and what did they do with their huge slush fund? they paid off the campaign debt of president warren g. harding. yeah. you know how people say warren harding was a terrible president? this is part of why warren g. harding was so terrible. in the early 1900s, the u.s. navy started to switch over from having its ships powered by coal to having its ships powered by oil. and the navy made a decision at that time that they would, therefore, buy up a bunch of oil field around the united states in order to make sure that u.s. navy ships always had a secure supply of oil. so if there was some emergency with will oil supply affecting the rest of the world or some supply shortage for some reason, at least the navy would be able to get oil to its own ships because they had their own oil. they had six sites around the united states that they considered to be naval petroleum reserves. over time, though, it just became too tempting, right. the government couldn't bear to just be sitting on all of that oil without making any money off of it. so they started leasing out these oil fields. and in 1915, they transferred one of these oil fields from the navy to the department of the interior. so the interior department could lease that field out. lease it out to oil companies and finally start making money off of that property. the terrible interior secretary for terrible president warren g. harding, he got responsibility for giving out those leases to oil companies to pump the oil off of that oil field. and he gave them out as no-bid contracts, and he gave them out super cheap, super sweet deals to these oil companies. and it turns out, surprise, he had taken huge bribes from those oil companies in order to give them those sweet deals. the oil men had paid off the campaign debt for president harding. they had bribed his interior secretary to get those oil leases. they had bribed newspaper publishers to not cover the scandal. when reporters and editors started realizing what was going on. nevertheless, the big bribery story you got out. this is the "wall street journal" breaking the story on good friday, 1922. and that led congress to start an investigation into what was going on there. when humphries, the fay with the big mansion in denver, when he found out he was going to have to testify to congress, to the congressional committee investigating the scandal, he killed himself in the mansion. hence the mansion being haunted. the head of sinclair oil did testify to congress. he ended up going to prison in the scandal. the head of one of the other oil companies that was implicated in the same scandal, his son ended up dead less than a year later in a mysterious murder/suicide that's still never totally been explained. warren g. harding's interior secretary, albert fall, the guy who took the bribes to get the cheap oil leases, he got convicted of taking hundreds of thousands of dollars in bribes. would have been millions in bribes in today's money. one of the lasting historical impacts of the scandal is that elbert fall, interior secretary, became the first former u.s. cabinet official to get sentenced to prison for something he did while he was in office. even before fall went to prison, less than a year and a half after the "wall street journal" break the story, president harding himself dropped dead on a trip to california that people thought he had taken to distract from the ongoing scandal in washington. so warren g. harding never even served a full term as president. but he is considered to be one of the worst presidents in american history. and we've had a lot of bad presidents. the supreme court ruling that came out of the scandal is the one that established that when congressional committees are investigating something, they can compel people to testify. that was never clear in the law before this scandal. but the supreme court had to say it was. this scandal was hugely consequential. it destroyed presidency. it established hugely important political precedents that still stand. people ended up dead and in prison and haunting spooky mansions. all the way up to some of the most powerful politicians and some of the richest businessmen in the country. i mean, there have been a lot of scandals in american political history. before watergate, this is considered to have been the greatest and most salacious american political scandal of all time. and it all started here. this is the naval petroleum reserve that they decided to lease out to those private companies where they took all the bribes and all the rest. it started the whole scandal. the rockformation on top of the oil reserve is what gave both the site in wyoming and the scandal its name. it's called the teapot dome. sadly, in 1962, a big windstorm blew the spout off the teapot, off what had been the teapot. doesn't look like a teapot dome anymore, looks like a little castle or lump or something. but after the scandal happened in the 1920s, this huge scandal, the navy, not surprisingly, decided that when they transferred their rights to that oil field into this den of thieves, right, when they gave it to the interior department and then it turned into this huge bribery-laden scandal, the navy decided that had actually been a fraudulent transaction. after the whole scandal blew open, the navy took back the teapot oil field in wyoming. they said, never mind, warren g. harding, never mind, interior department, never mind, oil companies, we're taking this back. it's ours once again. and they have held on to it ever since. ever since this terrible scandal. over the years, all the other oil fields, all the other naval petroleum reserves that we got back in the 1900 rs or 19-teens, all the others got leased to private industry or sold off to private industry. you could understand they were a little sensitive to not do that with the teapot dome. it's the only one of those petroleum reserves they held on to. first of all, because the first time they tried to sell it off it created the greatest u.s. scandal until watergate. but the other reason they held on to that one location and didn't sell it off even when they sold off all the other ones -- because as an oil field, the teapot dome kind of sucks. they've pumped about 30 million barrels of oil out of there over time. they think there's about ten times that much oil still there, but it is the kind of oil that's really hard and expensive to get out of the ground. and on those grounds o those economic grounds, the government decide good a decade ago that finally they were going to sell this thing off. and now this week, that plan has finally gone into motion. the government has hired a denver-based energy consulting firm to arrange the sale of the teapot dome oil field to the highest bidder. really this time. they're being very up-front. they say it's going to be a competitive process with sealed bids. we're going to do this properly this time. hopefully this time nobody will die or go to jail or end up haunting anything. part of the reason the deal is going to go through now is because i think the teaopposite dome scandal is so -- teapot dome scandal is so long ago that even if you heard the name, nobody remembers that it was about oil, right. nobody really remembers that it was about a specific oil field that the government owned. honestly, the teapot dome scandal was so long ago that the teapot dome thing doesn't even look like a teapot anymore. but the other reason this deal is going through now -- other reason this deal is potentially economically significant now is because what used to be considered inaccessible oil, oil that was too expensive to drill, too technologically infeasible to get out of the ground with any hope of making a profit, oil like that is now considered to be fair game. nobody knows exactly how the oil industry is going to get those 300 million barrels out of the teapot dome. those 300 million barrels that previously nobody's been able to get at. but nobody has any doubt that the oil industry will figure out a way because now, unlike we used to, now we drill absolutely everywhere. and it turn out that has really big political consequences, and that other part of the story is next. 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[ male announcer ] we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. i was okay, but after lunch my knee started to hurt again. and now i've got to take more pills. ♪ yup. another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. ♪ [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. ♪ man: we know when parents and teachers work together... woman: our schools get stronger. man: as superintendent of public education, that's been tom torlakson's approach. woman: torlakson has supported legislation to guarantee spending decisions about our education tax dollars are made by parents, teachers and the local community... and not by sacramento politicians. and we need to keep that legislation on track. man: so tell tom torlakson to keep fighting for local control of school funding decisions. trwith secure wifie for your business. it also comes with public wifi for your customers. not so with internet from the phone company. i would email the phone company to inquire as to why they have shortchanged these customers. but that would require wifi. switch to comcast business internet and get two wifi networks included. comcast business built for business. on new year's day last year, january 1st, 2013, this was the sight that residents in the great state of alaska woke up to that day. huh, happy new year. enjoy that giant drilling rig that has just crashed into your shore. that was a shell oil drilling rig called the kulick which had been drilling alaska's arctic organizati ocean before it capsized off the alaskan coast. that incident on new year's day of sort of a fitting end to what was a truly disastrous year for shell oil in the arctic. they started off bay predicting that drilling in the arctic was going to be "relatively easy" for them. but shell spent 2012 crashing the drilling rig into that alaskan island. they nearly ran another rig aground in alaska's aleutian islands. they suffered a cattleastrophic fire in that rig's engine room. they had new equipment designed to respond to an oil spill there, but totally screwed up white testi iwhile testing it, ended up "crushed like a beer can." also a rig was held on potential criminal violations. shell sent two drilling rigs to the arctic in 2012. both wound up under federal criminal investigation. after all that, as you might expect, shell announced that they were pulling out of the arctic. yeah, you think? after a year like that. shell's experience in the arctic was a big deal because they were the first oil company that was given permission to start drilling up there. and they totally blew it. i mean, for decades oil companies had begged for access to drill the arctic. now they were finally getting their chance, and -- shell just totally blew it. they failed after they failed after they failed and failed again. and -- and while nobody is happy when drilling rigs crash, it turns out that shell's disastrous misadventures in the arctic may have been sort of a blessing in disguise because this week, two years after the u.s. government gave shell the go ahead to start the process of drilling the arctic, we have just learned that we as a country have absolutely no idea what to do if something up there goes wrong. this week, a report that was commissioned by the u.s. government and the oil industry concluded that even though technically we have decided to move forward with drilling in the arctic, even though the oil industry has gotten its wish to be cleared politically to go drill up there, "it is unlikely that responders could quickly react to an arctic oil spill." we sort of have known that the oil companies themselves don't have the best oil spill response capability. but now we know that neither do we as a country. "the report finds that current personnel, equipment, transportation, communication, navigation, and safety resources for overseeing a spill response in the arctic are not adequate." this is not like a greenpeace report or something. this is the leading experts in government and the oil industry itself and oceanography and disaster response. all saying we are not ready to drill the arctic. we have no way of dealing with it anything goes wrong. this is the amazing part -- because the policy decision that we should drill in the arctic has already been made, this report recommends that what we ought to do now to essentially retro actively get ready for something that's already been approved, what we ought to do now is cause an oil spill in the arctic on purpose. so we can figure out how to try to respond on the fly. we are horrendous at cleaning up and containing oil spills when they happen in the gulf of mexico. right, the bp oil spill that happened this week four years ago, that confirmed how bad we are at cleaning it up. but we at least have lots of experience in dealing with oil spills in relatively warm water like that. we have practically no idea how spilled oil will react in cold water environments like the arctic or what happens when oil interacts with things like arctic sea ice. and so in order to figure it out, the report calls for planned and controlled field releases of oil in the arctic to. it help us understand how oil will behave in that environment. what could possibly go wrong? we are drilling plays in this country that we never used to drill before. oil that used to be considered too hard to get, we now think we are totally capable of going to get it. we are now at least willing to go get it. from the scandal-famous teapot dome in wye onlying to a mile under the sea off louisiana to right through the ice t arctic ocean, we'll go anywhere there is oil now, even though we don't know what to do once we're there. the official word from the experts as of this week is that even though oil drilling in the arctic has been approved politically, technologically we don't know how to clean up oil spills up there if and when they happen. the plan to deal with that, as of now, is to cause some intentional oil spills in the arctic just to see how it goes. that's the plan. that's how we're handling this as a nation, seriously. joining us, elizabeth birnbaum, director of the minerals management service at the time of the oil disaster. i appreciate your time. thanks for being here. >> thank you. >> have we gotten any better at cleaning up oil spills, particularly after the deepwater horizon disaster? have we had any technological breakthroughs in cleanup? >> there haven't been any technological breakthroughs, and really the technology for cleaning up oil spills hasn't improved much over decades. when we were cleaning up the bp spill, we were using much of the same technology that was used in 1969 to clean up the santa barbara blowout. it only removed a small percentage of the oil from the ocean. when you talk about the arctic, it's much more complicated to clean up because you're dealing with an environment where there is ice in the water much of the year. there's only a small period in the summer when they have clear water. and that makes cleanup much more difficult, and nobody knows how to do that. >> there was -- raising the issue of the santa barbara spill, for example, that was such a remarkable comparison to see the similar techniques. because the santa barbara spill happened in such shallow water. obviously we had taught ourselves how to drill in such deep water for the deepwater horizon without ever upgrading our response capabilities in case anything went wrong. my surprise talking to you about this four years later is that that didn't goose something either in the regulatory environment or in the industry itself that they would have to start proving better response technologies in order to be allowed to keep pushing the extremes of where they drill. >> we've been investing a little bit more money into oil spill cleanup technology since then. there haven't been any major breakthroughs, and we need to invest a lot more if we want to find breakthrough technologies for that. the booms are a little better at holding illinois than they maybe were for santa barbara. but maybe we've got slightly more absorbent materials. but basically, it's mostly the same technology. and again, if you do that in an environment where half of the sea is covered with ice, nobody quite knows how any of those technologies work in that environment. >> looking at shell's experience in 2012 and early 2013 of trying -- trying to set up drilling practices in the arctic, they -- as far as i could tell -- were considered to be the best at the industry for trying to do something like that. my -- when i look at their record just as a layman, i see a sort of comedy of errors or at least comedy of unfortunate incidents for shell where things kept going wrong after wrong after wrong after wrong. and they weren't dealing with spills. should we see the industry as being able to offer -- operate safely in an arctic environment even if they're not spilling? >> i was stunned, i have to say, when they ran aground. this was a situation where shell had invested over $1 billion in ships, equipment, the permitting process, but had truly invested to make this a model drilling operation in the arctic. they were going to prove it could be done and prove that it could be done safely. and then they ran aground. i -- it was just unbelievable. i haven't read the reports on it, i understand maybe they were pushing to get out of alaska waters to avoid some fees or something. but it really does make you wonder whether they can even operate. >> elizabeth birnbaum, former director of the minerals management service. we cover the energy industry a lot on this show in part because i'm always standing up at my desk and slapping myself in the face trying to believe the news that's coming out of this industry. it's a real asset for us to be able to call on you to help us understand it. thank you for being here tonight. i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thanks. we'll be right back. lots to come. de>>who's got twond rhooves and just got ae. claim status update from geico? this guy, that's who. sfx: bing. and i just got a...oh no, that's mom. sorry. claim status updates. just a tap away on the geico app. okay, quick, google squeaky fromme. the first word squeaky, spelled like the adjective, squeaky. the second, f-r-o-m-m-e. google that, then meet me back here in a minute. i'll be right back. in the nation, we reward safe driving. add vanishing deductible from nationwide insurance and get $100 off for every year of safe driving. we put members first. join the nation. ♪ nationwide is on your side (music) defiance is in our bones. defiance never grows old. citracal maximum. calcium citrate plus d. highly soluble, easily absorbed. man: i don't know...i forget. it last time? man: hey, scott...hbors.ow perfect timing. scott: feeding your lawn need not be so difficult. get a load of this bad boy. man: sweet! scott: this snap spreader system from scotts makes caring for your lawn snapcrackin' simple, guaranteed. just take the handy, no-mess bag, then snap, lock and go. to see a demo of the snap spreader, go to scotts.com. feed your lawn. feed it! anncr: visit scotts.com/goyard for the chance to win a $25,000 backyard makeover. the expedia app helps you save with mobile-exclusive deals download the expedia app text expedia to 75309 expedia, find yours the first seconds of this tape is black, it's audio. the visual pops on screen a few seconds into it. so watch. >> well then, mr. president, will you please stand? do you promise that all of the testimony that you will give in this matter will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god? >> i will. >> thanks. >> all right, you may commence your questioning. >> thank you, your honor. mr. president, i would like to direct your attention to friday, september the 5th, 1975, in sacramento, california. where were you just prior to the incident in capitol park? >> i had been in the senator hotel come is on l street, as i re recollect, crass from the state capitol. >> that was the first time a sitting u.s. president ever testified as a witness in a criminal trial. president gerald ford, in 1975, gave his testimony on videotape while he sat in the old executive office building which is right next to the white house in washington, d.c. but the trial that his testimony was used in was not conducted in d.c. that trial was in california. and the person who was on trial in that criminal case was on trial for attempting to kill the president. >> i noticed this lady in a brightly colored dress who wanted to apparently move closer toward me, and i assumed to shake hands. so i hesitated, instead of keeping moving as i normally do. and as i stopped, i saw a hand come through the crowd in the first row, and that was the only active gesture that i saw. but in the hand was a weapon. the weapon was large. it covered all or most of her hand as far as i could see. and i only saw it instantaneously because almost automatically one of the secret service agents lunged, grabbed the hand and the weapon, and then i was pushed off by the other members of the secret service detail. >> how close did the weapon come to you, to your person? >> i would estimate two feet. >> president gerald ford gave that testimony in 1975. there was no indication at the time that that would ever become public. testimony was recorded in washington. it was then brought to california so it could be played for the jurors who were hearing the case of lynette fromme, who was on trial for trying to kill president ford. but that was supposed to be its only use. eventually the tape of the president testifying was released because of advocacy by something called the eastern district historical society which tries to preserve the history of the court where the trial was held, the federal district court that sits in sacramento. it's kind of weird, right? that historical society wanted the tape released because it's part of a history of that the judge ordered the ford testimony should be digitized and released in august. now the same court, the judge who released the ford tape agreed to release the other incredible tape from that trial. and from that assassination attempt. it is the tape of lynette from, squeaky from, the defendant in the trial talking about what she did. >> the new tapes are just over 2 hours of audio, 20 minutes have been release sewed far of her talking to a psychiatrist about why she thought she should be allowed to represent herself at the trial. she was 26 years old at the time of this mental exam, which is on the tape. about two weeks after she had, she put on a print dress and then she put on a big flowing red robe over the dress. all of the better to conceal the huge pistol that she had strapped to her thigh with a belt. she was only about 105 pound at the time she did this. the gun she pulled on the president as he crossed from the hotel to the state capitol. a huge gun. a colt 45. she never actually fired the weapon. whether intentional or screwed up. was never conclusively determined. the assassination attempt in sacramento, outside the state capital. from was living there in part, charles manson was nearby. her assassination attempt on president ford 1975 six years after the gruesome 1969 manson family cult murders in los angeles. and manson was in prison for those murders. squeaky was a devoted member of the manson family colt. visiting manson frequently. she attended the trial. she carved an x into her forehead to show her devotion to charles manson. but she wanted to be seen as sane for her trial because sunny wanted to represent herself. >> how have you been feeling generally? >> i feel pretty good. >> are you bothered to any significant degree by anxiety, nervousness, tention? >> no, never have been. >> even under these circumstances? >> no. i make the best of any situation. >> what would you estimate to be your percentage chance at this point of being found not guilty? >> i have already decided exactly what i intend to ask the jury for. >> uh-huh. >> and i don't know if i should answer that. >> uh-huh. >> well -- most of us when we enter into a situation of difficulty have some kind of estimate going into the back of our mind how likely we are to be successful. >> i feel, definitely i have probably a 70% chance. >> of being found not guilty. >> on the percentage scale. >> the press has the made a number of comments to the effect that you are a -- a rather daft broad wandering about in this world, following ill begotten causes and so forth. how do you feel about that? >> i'm working through it the best way i can. i feel this trial conducted with a little bit of dignity could help tremendously. >> uh-huh. so you would look for your image to go up? >> well, no. wait a minute. the judge has already stated this is not a forum for me to express my views or for me to do anything for my image. in other word i am saying incidentally that. >> you think you your image would improve by how you would conduct yourself in a court of sflau a law. >> when she was in the courtroom. she threatened the judge and said she knew where he lived and described his living room to him. he increased his security. he also at one point pulled out an apple and tried to beam the judge in the head with it. she missed. she hit the prosecutor instead during his closing argument. hit him in the head. knocked off his glasses. the judge responded by skifg ef she had any more apples. she didn't. sunny was convicted and got life in prison. at one point she escaped from prison but recaptured her two days after she escaped. the release of tapes from the bizarre incident in recent history is a reminder of how bizarre those times were in the mid '70s. a known member of the manson family, six years after the manson family murders in l.a. did get within two feet of the sitting u.s. president and pointed a loaded colt 45 at him. that happened on september 5th, 1975. by november 1, 1975, by the time the president got around to recording the first-ever testimony by a sitting president in a criminal trial, in the case of his would-be assassin. by the time president ford was patiently answering the questions as a witness to this manson family member who fried to kill him, by that time, somebody else had already tried to kill him again. 17 days after squeaky from pulled a gun on president ford, sarah jane moore not only pulled a gun on him in san francisco, she actually fired her gun. she missed. but she did shoot at president ford. and it was the second assassination attempt against the president of the united states in less than three weeks. and both of those attempts had just happened when the president sat down calmly to give this testimony. the squeaky from tape and gerald ford tape do not cover history that we didn't know about before we knew these things happened but never had the words and moving images from the almost unbelievable time. before this week. and "the sacramento bee" is a big part of the reason that we do have it now. for that the history geeks and journalism geeks among us owe "the sacramento bee" thanks. we have links to the footage at maddowblog.com. right now. we'll be right back. cars are driven by people. they're why we innovate. they're who we protect. they're why we make life less complicated. it's about people. we are volvo of sweden. sfx: car unlock beep. vo: david's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today his doctor has him on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. my guests are "nathan, which dish is better?". now i say you can have it all with our new seafood trios! red lobster's new seafood trios is three times delicious! choose one option from the wood-fire grill, one signature shrimp dish, and a pasta like new lobster mac and cheese. three choices all on one plate. just $15.99. for a limited time only! you can build it any way that you like, pick your three favorite things. it is spectacular! i'm nathan tavernaris and i sea food differently. who would have thought masterthree cheese lasagna would go with chocolate cake and ceviche? the same guy who thought that small caps and bond funds would go with a merging markets. it's a masterpiece. thanks. clearly you are type e. you made it phil. welcome home. now what's our strategy with the fondue? diversifying your portfolio? e*trade gives you the tools and resources to get it right. are you type e*? and that's epic, bro, we've forgotten just how good good is. good is setting a personal best before going for a world record. good is swinging to get on base before swinging for a home run. [ crowd cheering ] good is choosing not to overshoot the moon, but to land right on it and do some experiments. ♪ so start your day off good with a coffee that's good cup after cup. maxwell house. ♪ good to the last drop >> although tonight is friday night. i am not sending you to prison. right now the president of the united states is in south korea, in seoul, actually saturday morning in seoul, already. president obama right now is about to address some of the 28,000 u.s. troops who are currently stationed in south korea. so, we're going to start msnbc special coverage of the president's live address to u.s. troops in seoul. >> the u.s. naval forces, korea, u.s. marine forces korea, special operations command. we have got our outstanding dod
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