Advisory council for donald trump. And im going to start with you. You worked for a former president who i think a lot of people may be missing right now as they see where the Republican Party has gone. But it is interesting that who you dont have out there for donald trump includes, we know George Herbert walker bush has not been well but his son, the former president george w. Bush, john mccain who was a former republican president ial candidate. You dont have mitt romney. You dont seem to have the alist heavy weight republicans out there for trump. Why is that . Well, i think its because of the candidacy of donald j. Trump. Surrogates in the surrogate game is one of addition, not subtraction. He is shedding surrogates and credible voices to go around the country and talk for him when he should be adding them. New voices, different voices. Thats not happening. And its a problem for his campaign. Not only not having the former president s. Well have the current president of the United States stumping for Hillary Clinton. Joe biden. Really the alist of the Democratic Party out there in full force. Does it send a message down the ticket that the party is not fully on board with the candidate . Isnt it problematic that all of these nonwhite republicans who manage to win statewide office, the nikki haleys, Suzanna Martinez if they could go out there and stump for their candidate. Theyre not there. Isnt that problem atuc . We cant say all. Im certainly a nonwhite republican who is stumping very hard for donald trump. Your previous guest just insulted me because weve gone very down the list of surrogates. Im one of themp. But i would say this. In the campaign, were almost proud that some of those republicans arent on our team because, guess what . Were not part of the establishment. Were not part of the crooked, d. C. Crony establishment. Republican and democrat. That has made most of americans lives less safe and less prosperous. If you want to talk about mitt romney, john mccain, a couple people who lost disastrously. If you want to talk about even george w. Bush and ill be bipartisan in my criticism. Most americans report is had a pay raise in this century since the year 2000. The policies on this administration, the policies of the Previous Administration are not working for most americans. What donald trump has done is said we have a resounding new way and were going to include the Republican Party, of course. But we are more than anything not antidemocrat. Were antiwashington. Were antiestablishment. And ill ask you this as a strategist. Its fine to sort of run against washington. But if you dont have the speaker of the house who won his primary very handily against a protrump opponent. So what steve is saying is they dont need them. You dont need the governor of ohio, john kasich in a state of ohio where essentially he controls the apparatus of get out the vote . You dont need the governor of ohio . You dont need these guys . It depends on the strategy. As we heard the surrogate talk about, the strategy is to put up the current nominee, donald trump, as being antiestablishment and being the different than what washington has seen before or even weve seen in the white house. For their particular strategy, they believe they dont. What is amazing to see is then how does that get down into the ground . If you are talking about those individuals that you can bring out to help bring out the vote and do the coordination on the ground to actually get voters to the polls, if you dont have those individuals doing that or helping with that, donald trump cant be everywhere. And certainly the National Surrogates in Rudy Giuliani and others cant be everywhere. You need people local on the ground in individual precincts in order to bring those people out for election day. Thats whats going to be missing. At the end of the day, Rudy Giuliani is not even popular. There isnt a person of color in new york that likes Rudy Giuliani. New york and new jersey are going to Hillary Clinton. You need john kasich. You need ohio. You need to pick up advocates for your message and your campaign as the race gets closer to november. Donald trump n his campaign have not done that. Even people who say theyre for him like marco rubio arent helping him out. Lets go over to the democrats. One of the big sources of tension between there are many. We can do an hour on it. This sense that she doesnt give access to us. She wont let reporters near her. Well, she finally did allow the press on her plane which means reporters will feel theyre getting access to the candidate. Lets play a little of that. This is Hillary Clinton talking about whether shes happy to see us. Hi, guys. Welcome to our big plane. Its so exciting. What do you think . I think its pretty cool, dont you . Youre supposed to say yes. I am so happy to have you all with me. I have just been waiting for this moment. And im no, really. And ill come back and talk to you more formally. I wanted to welcome you onto the plane. Shes not happy to see any of those folks at all. It was funny because it was so shame filled. Does anything change with granting more access to the press . Do you expect the coverage of her, the tone of it will change . I really dont. This goes back decades. We have a pretty good example. When she gave her book tour, amazing access. A couple of weeks. Sat down. Media matters added up 3 1 2 hours of television interviews. Sat down with the best and brightest of the tv world. She got hammered in the press for doing it. They absolutely dont like her. She was phony, not authentic, out of touch. We have aconcrete example. She did open the door, granted a lot of access and they just hammered her. So i dont know if its going to change the coverage or not. Again, this dynamic goes back to the 90s. Theres been a lot of chatter over the weekend about how the New York Times is covering her. Paul krugman wrote this column in the New York Times basically chastising how, though not by name, his own paper. Were losing track of what this campaign is about. People are so lost in the scandal narrative, they cant get away from it. Weve seen this before. This is the latest chapter. Trump hasnt people are not allowed on the trump plane yet. But hes not a clinton. The press is mostly fixated on clinton access and democratic access. There seems to be a double standard. Democrats are always supposed to welcome the press in and republicans are able to sort of keep them at a distance. We dont see a problem with that. Dont see a lot of complaints. You had jean carlo, george w. Bush was the master of wooing the press and befriending them. Giving them nicknames. Youre stretch and youre slim. It lowers peoples guard. And im going to do the same thing. You are a republican strategist. Do you think in any way it would help him . It seems so superficial to say you need to be friendly to us or were going to trash you as corrupt. We talk about double standards in politics. One of the first rules of politics would be to understand that there is a double standard in politics. The worst mistake you can make it a blunder that feeds the narrative about you and your weaknesses. Hillary clinton has handed these out like candy. So we can have a debate. I hope we do, about whether or not the foundation did things that were improper, right or wrong. But the fact of the matter is Hillary Clinton is making it so easy for her detractors to take shots at her and, to me, you know, again, we can talk about the validity of those arguments. She has not help herself at all. Do yau agree with that . I dont think shes handed out anything. Every revelation weve had on these emails, a year ago, pay for play, quid pro quo. Now its it was. No it wasnt. Sure it was. Krugmans article was so pay for play is the Trump Foundation. Well talk about that later. And you know i like you a lot but the problem is even the stories that were about this supposed pay for play. We didnt find any but it looked bad she had the foundation. Were going to pak sure youre in that block. And we want to make sure we get steve back in here. One thing that also happened today. We continue to have this back and forth on the question of whether or not donald trump wants to deport everyone thats in the country, undocumented or not. Lets play donald trump on his plane today talking about his immigration stance. Take a listen. Or not. Do we have that . Okay. Well come back. Oh, no. Its going to be a twoway street. And with me, its got to be a oneway street for a while. Ill be honest with you. Its kind of hard to hear that. Im going to read for you. He said im not ruling out anything. No, no, no to become a citizen youll have to go out and come back in through the process. Youll have to get in line. The reporter says a lot of republican plans about letting people have legal status. Just to let them live here, work here. People who have lived here for a long time, contributed to society. He says were going to make that decision into the future. At this point can you tell us definitively, you dont work for the campaign, is donald trump saying that people who are here having jobs and families can stay or they have to go . It seems like he said both. What i think, joy, hes been accused continually of flip flopping on this. I dont think hes flipflopped at all. Hes been remarkably consistent that there are a couple of bedrock principles. One is we must secure our southern border. Weve not done that for decades. The second is theres no path to citizenship. If you came here illegally, you cannot be rewarded for illegal activity with citizenship. Hes never wavered from that. Where theres some ambigutity. This is leadership, not flip flopping. Hes said well get to that. We have much more priorities at some point given the most dangerous people out, getting People Living off the system out, living in sanctuary cities. Once we do that and control our immigration system, if there are people who have been here illegally many years and have not in any way siphoned off the system, we can talk about their status. Thats leadership. By the way, its in stark contrast to Hillary Clinton who says within 100 days ill give you a path to citizenship and will reward those who came illegally to hop the line in front of millions of immigrants from asia, from Eastern Europe, from latin american countries who did it the right way legally. As a result of supporti inin daca, shes way ahead in the polls. Look at your face. He was talking. Your thoughts . I dont know why were discussing this as if he has a concrete plan to do anything. I dont know why were discussing him as if he has a concrete plan to do anything. Can we speak in any greater platitudes than that . He talks about having a plan and basically just him getting up and talking about the Broad Strokes or the overall things that he wants to do in terms of securing the border. Were not clear about how a wall is built. Who is going to pay for it or any of those things that people you know, aspire to because, yes, they want some security. Yes, they want some path to citizenship. But there is no detail of going hold on. He hasnt been unclear about any of those. Thats why were talking about it. Thats why people are asking questions. No path to citizenship. What happens is surrogates like yourself then come on tv and explain it for him, but your candidate still has not explained it. Ive actually heard trump surrogates say when mike pence is talk, hes talking as mike pence and giuliani is talking as giuliani. Thats not the way it works. Theyre supposed to be able to say the same explanation as each other and they havent been able to do that. Eric, isnt this overall, and the reason we really, i like having you here on this, this is the problem. Were attempting to discuss donald trump as if hes mitt romney or george w. Bush or like a traditional candidate. Theres nothing traditional about it. Joegeorge w. Bush didnt los. Romney and mccain did. This is a concern democrats and Hillary Clinton supporters have. Trump does not have an immigration policy, a tax policy, doesnt have anything policy. And campaigns used to be about policy. They used to be about agenda. We dont talk about what Hillary Clinton wants to do as president. We dont talk about this amazingly liberal democratic agenda. Email foundation, optics, optics, clinton with trump, kind of policy, but, if we just had a policy versus policy debate it would be a stark and revealing debate. Well have more on this with this panel. Thats an important point, even for us, the media. We only talk about optics and whether or not trump is pivoting. And we dont dig into the policy. You actually now are seeing in a lot of voters that they dont know what the policies of Hillary Clinton are. And those have been out there. My panel is coming back later in the show. Trumps donations to state attorneys general and the questions they raise. Hillary clinton im Hillary Clinton and i approve this message. Vo in times of crisis america depends on steady leadership. Donald trump knock the crap out of them, would you . Seriously. Vo clear thinking. Donald trump i know more about isis than the generals do, believe me. Vo and calm judgment. Donald trump and you can tell them to go fu k themselves. Vo cause all it takes is one wrong move. Donald trump audio only i would bomb the sh t out of them. Vo just one. Im terhe is. At golf. But id like to keep being terrible at golf for as long as i can. New patented ensure enlive has hmb plus 20 grams of protein to help rebuild muscle. For the strength and energy to do what you ve. New ensure enlive. Always be you. Shes a fine person. Never spoke to her about it. Never. Many of the attorney generals turned that case down because ill win that case in court. What were you hoping to get out of that donation that you talked a lot about . Ive known pam bondi for years. I have a lot of respect for her. Never spoke to her about that at all. And just have a lot of respect for her as a person, and shes done an amazing job as the attorney general of florida. Donald trump today answered questions about a 25,000 check the Trump Foundation gave to Florida Attorney general pam bondi in 2013. As the Washington Post reports this week, trump is now paid a 2,500 penalty to the irs for that gift. Because the Trump Foundation, a registered nonprofit, violated tax laws by giving a political contribution. Trump Organization Officials have claimed the violation was an honest mistalk and say trump has reimbursed the foundation. News of this donation is raising eyebrows. At the time, bondi was considering whether to investigate fraud allegations against Trump University. And wound up not pursuing the case. Bondi isnt the only state attorney general to find a to find a fat check in her Campaign Coffers from trump. In june, the ap reported trump donated money to greg abbotts successful gubernatorial campaign, three years after abbott dropped his investigation into trump u. Im going to start with you because pam bondi, who we both well known, has not been able to really escape the story but it hasnt seemed to hurt her. My question is whether this winds up hurting donald trump in some way. Only if the democrats decide to make it an issue. Lets play a game. Lets take out Donald Trumps name and plug in Hillary Clintons name and ask what would have happened in Hillary Clinton paid off a Democratic State attorney general and had a favorable decision afterward. Donald trump would be going crazy. All of the corrupt hillary epithets would be out there. Why is this not the exact case of corrupt donald doing something that clearly is pay for play . One off maybe. Twice a trend. Greg abbott, pam bondi. Thats a question for the media. You havent heard the calls to shut down the Trump Foundation or much about this story at all to be honest. This seems to be as direct an instance of what looks like pay for play as weve seen so far. For 18 months the press has been looking for a pay for play for the clinton administration. Started in the spring of last year. They havent found it. This is exactly what they have been looking for. This is, as he said, this would be all over the news. One mention on the sunday shows over the weekend about it. Very little headlines or things like that. Previously Washington Post, New York Times, usa today, all wrote editorials. Youd have to shut down the Clinton Foundation. Not because theyve done anything wrong. It just doesnt look good. Weve got trump sending 25,000 checks to get investigations shut down. Where are those editorials. Where is that thunder, lecturing tone about how trump really needs to figure out how to abide by the ethics. This is an amazing double standard. You would shred Hillary Clinton if the Clinton Foundation paid 25,000 to an attorney general who then ended an investigation against them, right . Youd come on this tv and shred her. Absolutely. Why do you suppose theres silence on the other side . I said this in the last block. Double standards exist for a reason. The clintons have made it easy to take pot shots at them for the way theyve conducted themselves in office and out of office. Theres plenty to go after what gives you a good reason to believe that its okay for the donald Trump Foundation to directly essentially hand over 25,000 to stop an investigation. Where is the equivalent that behavior. There is no scenario where thats okay. Im not going to defend trump. The equivalent is setting up your own email server specifically because you did not want the kind of scrutiny that you knew would come if all of that if all those messages were is that the equivalent. It is for me. The equivalent, i remember bill clinton had an ill advised meeting with Loretta Lynch on an airplane. They sat and talked and the world blew up. Heres a smoking gun of a check not in one case, not in two cases, where you have no smoking gun . The central issue, Trump University for the ultimate donald trump con on the table. How about one of Loretta Lynchs employees deciding not to pursue further indictment against Hillary Clinton. Are you trying to allege theres some evidence thats hold on. For this to be the same thing, there has to be a check in bill clintons hand, handed to Loretta Lynch. Thats what this story is about pam bondi. Wanted to turn the ap story into knots trying to confuse everyone. The reality is the reality is over half of the private citizens that Hillary Clinton visited with when she was secretary not over half. She visited with 1,700 meetings. 1,700 meetings of which 84 were with people who also were donors to the Clinton Foundation. 1700 were private citizens. I read the ap story. Thats how the ap story has been shredded because because why . Im going to it was a small sub set. Do you think hold on. Not in a position to were not going to have a you and me debate. Do you think meeting with a nobel peace price lauriet required him to write a check . There was no evidence thats people wrote a check first and got a meeting. And many of these meetings got why did she set up the private server . What does that you just blurred two stories. My point is if someone tells you who they are. Hes maintained, bragged about the fact when he wants someone to do something his way he pays them and gets them to do what he wants them to do. Does not excuse headquarteHillary Clinton. Here is the key difference. Donald trump is a private citizen. Yes, he has admitted that to some degree there was pay to play that he tried to get access from politicians which, by the way, significant Business People do all the time. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. The difference is steve, are you saying that significant Business People regularly engage in pay to play and that thats okay because theyre private citizens . No, its not okay. Its not okay. You just said that hes a businessman and its illegal. Its not okay. No donald trump has hinted that something a voice at the table. And what hes saying is this. He wants to end that system. And hes going to do it. By the way, donald trump gave donations from his personal fortune that he made no, from his foundation. The he made a mistake in that case. He wrote it from the foundation. Youre not an allowed to do that. He reimbursed the foundation. Youre saying thats all right. Youre honestly saying its all right he said it was a mistake. Heres the he had to may a fine because its illegal. And he said that was a mistake and he reimbursed the foundation and it was a tactical mistake. It wasnt a pay to play in that case. It was a pay to play. She didnt pursue an investigation into Trump University he supports a lot of politicians, including pam bondi. Weve already had a New York Times investigation attempt to find any evidence that donald trump has given money out of his own pocket. Hes given money out of the foundation. His own checks dont get written somehow. Well, the difference is, his money is his money. The clintons who have barely had where did he get his money . He doesnt give his own money. After serving in office have become generationally rich by selling access and by building ious all over the globe. The best example by far, the cleanest by far is the russians via canada giving 200 million to get 20 of mrkamericas uran supply. Okay, i dont even know where to go with this. Your witness. Okay. What strikes me is the orwellian nature of this conversation. They take the very things that they accuse Hillary Clinton of being involved in or alleged of, supposedly, maybe, possibly and here are smoking guns in two cases. You just heard steve say donald trump admitted to being involved in pay for play which you and i know is illegal in the United States. You cannot do pay for play behavior pooum not saying it hasnt been done. He admitted to it. What you heard him now alleging the russians have been involved with the clinton campaign. The one sector of this campaign from a Foreign Policy perspective that caused the head of the cia to say donald trump is an unwitting agent of vladimir putin. Orwellian. Donald trump referenced this idea of what he did as a private businessman in terms of what were calling pay for play. Lets take a listen. Nobody knows the system better than me. Which is why i alone can fix it. Eric, your witness. Again, the larger problem with the press is the optics police. So the clintons are going to be held under this microscope. Every piece has a concession. Twothirds of the way down, cant find anything wrong but it doesnt look good, doesnt look good. Here donald trump, its wrong. It looks good and its wrong. And we dont why does it always not look good . And we dont see those lecturing editorials, condescending editorials. This is the Clinton Foundation. If you ask the people who watch the Charity Watch or charity navigator, they say if she werent running for president , this the Clinton Foundation would be seen as one of the Great Charities of our generation. Thats not true. Thats totally untrue. Thats totally untrue. Nobody has disputed the good works the Clinton Foundation has done. No one has the press says just shut it down. Just shut it down. Its very condescend some in the press those are the h lines. Are you trying to tell me are you saying the Mainstream Media is in the pocket of donald trump . That theyre favoring the trump narrative . I find that preposterous. What drives us crazy and keeps us up at night is that donald trump is the person that has to adjudicate this argument on behalf of the party. If it were anyone else, we would be winning this debate. But were dealing with a novice in so many things. In donald trump. And we are letting a generationally winnable race slip through our fingers. Because of topics like this. The ultimate trump fan and partisan but doesnt jean carlo make a good point . Theres no getting around the fact that somebody like jean carlo would be great if he was advocating for you, but the reality is that you cant get the jean carlos to advocate for you. You cant get the republicans who have Great Respect among the media to argue for your candidate. They wont do it. Will now not admit youre to the point you cant get traditional republicans to make the points youre making . You cant get them. No, i wont admit that. And we are staging an insurgent campaign. Thats almost not a campaign, its a movement. Were upending washington in every sense. Republican and democrat. Its difficult, tumultuous. Weve made a lot of friends and a lot of enemies. Theres a lot of people in washington. Weve sent supposed conservatives to washington, d. C. , for 25 years who quickly go k street very, very quickly and become big government, crony capitalists. Do you want to name names . Who are you talking about . Absolutely. John boehner will be one. Hes not there anymore. He was there for a long, long time. Mitch mcconnell. What about the current speaker of the house. Ambiffulevalent but im worr about him. Would it be helpful to have him on your side to win wisconsin . Yes, it would be. And we do have him on our side right now. But my point is this. We are up ending the political order. This is a movement. It is a you said that. Im going to let them back in. We hear a lot about upending the political order which i take great offense to. Someone who has been in this game for almost a quarter of a century. You should take offense because were coming after people like you. If you are a trump supporter, you are a supporter because you agree with his stance on certain issues like immigration or because youre tired of the quote unquote politics as usual. So how is it that we now have a candidate who has equivocated all over the place on issues such as immigration to the point who follow policy like me dont even know what the hell he believes in or is it the donald trump that loves saying im not a typical politician but has the opportunity to go to mexico and speak truth to power, he equivocates n cowardly slinks away without having addressed the issues. Then goes to arizona in a room full of his supporters and screams and yells and were back to the same guy. Which is it . All by the way as a means to winning an election. We probably dont have time to go over all of them. He went to mexico and acted incredibly president ial. He put to rest worries and legitimate worries because hes never been a politician. Can he operate on the international stage. I dont think he did that, but were going to give fernand the last word. Can donald trump win in his insurgency, kicking aside essentially the entire Republican Party along with the democrats . Not with this message. Elections are about addition not subtraction. Let me close by saying Trump University. He tried to invalid the judge, judge curiel. Now we have two cases of pay for play, because lets not mistake what it is. In the case of the governor of texas when he was attorney general, now pam bondi. Follow the money. Smoke and fire there because he knows this was the ultimate con. And i agree with you. I think this should be a much bigger story because its a much more direct theres fire here. This isnt just smoke. Theyll all be back because were having so much fun. Next, my interview with j. D. Vance about the impact white working voters are having on the president ial campaign. The no. 1 choice of dentists. Compared to oralb 7000, Philips Sonicare flexcare platinum removes significantly more plaque. 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And hillbilly elegy offers some message into why trumps message resonates with White Working Class america. I spoke to j. D. Vance about his book yesterday on a. M. Joy. J. D. , thank you for being here. I read so many pieces about your book and seen so many interviews with you. I have the book here. Cant wait to dive into it. Your story, first of all, is fascinating. The way you went from rust belt unit to yale. Can you give us a synopsis . I grew up in a rough and tumble area. My family struggled with a lot of things people are struggle with. Thanks to the promise of my grandparents and them playing a positive role in my life, i wassawas able to get out. I joined the marine corps. And i went from there to college n then to yale law school. Ive had a pretty good life. A kind of classically upward mobile life. The book is about why there arent more books about me. Why was one of the lucky few and why there werent more lucky like i am. One thing fascinating about your story and the story you tell about who you call the hillbilly world that even sometimes earned the contempt of fellow white americans is how similar some of the pathologies you talk about are to the pathologies that normally people assign to africanamericans. That these ideas of the way youre raised. Mostly by your grandparents. Able to use the military to get a college degree. Thats familiar across racial lines. Why do you suppose theres such a huge gulf and distance ideologically between africanamericans and people from where you like the ones you came from . Well, obviously, a lot of it goes back to 40 or 50 years ago when the two groups sort of diverged because of certain policies that were supported by nixon, by goldwater and so forth. So some of it has its root in that history. A big part is because of the way that black americans have been discriminated against legally, i think black americans have tended to focus on politics of race and which party is going to provide the most racial uplift or tear down the most legal barriers. White americans have typically voted their pocketbook. Voted politics of class. And so they have tended to not necessarily overlap. They have sometimes, of course, but most of the times often voting for different groups. Its interesting you say voting the politics of class or pocketbooks. The way we tend to think about White Working Class americans, people mostly think they vote sort of against their economic interests. They become very antiunion, for instance, even though thats what lifted up white americans after world war ii and gave them economic opportunity. They tend to be against policies that help the poor even if they are in need of social services or food stamps. Why do you suppose that is . Well, a big part of it is the folks in the White Working Class are a little uncomfortable with the idea that they need handouts. So a lot of times even though they may be voting against a candidate who is going to give them something economically, a lot of times theyre voting when i say voting their class, theyre voting pride in who they are. They have a little leeway because theyre not as destitute, of course, as minority groups of poor folks of other minority groups. But partially just because they have built in some ways the politics of pride and thats in some ways often takes precedence over the economic stuff. And how much does race play into it. Its impossible to talk about anything when youre talking about American History without talking about race and you make the point in a lot of ways that even if the white poor are economically struggling, they still, i guess, in a sense, have that sense that they got it over africanamericans in terms of their rank in society. How much does that play into this antipathy to the Democratic Party which has become the home of black voters . Sure, well, i definitely think it plays a part. Theres definitely a significant chunk of the sort of david duke vote thats supporting donald trump. But i dont think its majority part of the White Working Class. Theres some racial anxiety, theres some economic anxiety but also cultural anxiety. Theres the anxiety of seeing too many heroin overdoses in your community, rising mortality rates. Its probably more complicated than even race or economics. Its probably sort of all the above. We should recognize the role that race plays but shouldnt be too reductionist about saying this is just a racist group of people. Thats not what i see in my own family. I dont think it gives enough credence to how much these folks are really struggling. This is an excerpt from hillbilly elegy. Its not entirely clear how trump plans to bring factory jobs back to the southern ohio or rid Eastern Kentucky of the Prescription Drug epidemic or cure western pennsylvanias teenagers of their heroin addiction, yet for people who no longer believe in the American Dream their parents and grandparents, slogans may be enough. Making America Great again may sound try to ite to some but to its music to their ears. Why is this group of americans so pessimistic and explain a little more why Donald Trumps slogans resonate with them. Yeah, well, part of it is that pessimism is rooted in something legitimate. If you think of my grandparents life, they expected and really that was worn out by reality that their kids would have a better material life than they a have. Its gone to where theyve seen the prospects sort of fall off. That pessimism creates a certain detachment from their country, a lack of faith in the future and donald trump is obviously exploited that lack of faith to a people who feel their country isnt that great anymore. The slogan, make America Great again, actually resonates. And talk just a little bit as we wrap up about barack obama and whether or not for a lot of the country, barack obamas, leks helped them believe they could move forward. Why is this so much in the obama era. Theres a growing sense that the elites of our political and financial world are unlike people like me. They talk a certain way, act a certain way, have certain educational credentials that most people in my community dont have. Theres this growing sense of cultural chasm between the people who make it and the people who dont. And, frankly, a lot of people i grew up around are wondering if theyre on the wrong side of that line and ever able to join the good side again. Well, it is a fascinating book. This is the book. Hillbilly elegy a memoir of family and culture in crisis. Congratulations on the success of the book, j. D. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. All right. After the break, the unsoftening continues. Stay with us. Now, with one talk from verizon. Hi, pete. Im glad you called. announcer vo all your phones can Work Together on one number. You can move calls between phones, so conversations can go where you go. Take your time. Im not going anywhere. announcer vo and when youre not available, one talk helps find the right person who is. Hi, john. announcer vo so wherever work takes you, you can put your customers first. Introducing one talk another way verizon connects your business better. Learn how at onetalk. Com. Enepeople want power. Hallenge. And power plants account for more than a third of energyrelated carbon emissions. The challenge is to capture the emissions before theyre released into the atmosphere. Exxonmobil is a leader in carbon capture. 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Comcast. With the iraq and afghanistan veterans of america will host president ial nominees headquartHillary Clinton and donald trump for a live forum on issues that the next president will have to confront as commander in chief. Thats wednesday at 8 00 p. M. East owner nbc and msnbc. In our next hour, well talk to adam nemoy, son of the late Leonard Nimoy and his new documentary for the love of spock. Does anyone know what Donald Trumps immigration policy is . Stay with us. Its less useful like a hat for your cat surface has touch and a beautiful screen you can see things like theyve never been seen this mac doesnt quite compare its slower, heavy, and a bit square fold it in half, hello when you start lighter than air, you can doodle a heart yes its plain to see the surface pro 4 is made for me Hillary Clinton im Hillary Clinton and i approve this message. Vo in times of crisis america depends on steady leadership. Donald trump knock the cr out of them, would you . Seriously. Vo clear inking. Donald trump i know more about isis than the generals do, believe me. Vo and calm judgment. Donald trump and you can tell them to go fu k themselves. Vo because all it takes is one wrong move. Donald trump audio only i would bomb the sh t out of them. Vo just one. Take on any road with intuitive allwheel drive. The nissan rogue, murano and pathfinder. Now get 0 apr for 72 months, plus 500 bonus cash. Gilman go get it, marcus. Go get it. Coach gilman used his cash rewards credit card from bank of america to earn 1 cash back everywhere, every time. At places like the batting cages. [ crowd cheers ] 2 back at Grocery Stores and now at wholesale clubs. And 3 back on gas. Which helped him give his players something extra. The cash rewards credit card from bank of america. More cash back for the things you buy most. I think what hes talking about is a pause. After the two to three million get put out of the country because theyre committing crimes, hurting americans. Donald trump, as he expressed in one of his interviews recently, would find it very, very difficult to throw out a family thats been here for, you know, 15 years. Donald trump is going to tell you exactly what he thinks. Sometimes youll agree, sometimes you wont, but youll never have to wonder. Donald trump sent his surrogates out to clarify and perhaps resoften his immigration policy. Chris christie and rudy jewgiuli claim the promise to Deport Anyone in the ucountry illegall only applies to those who have committed crimes. Thats left fellow republicans confused. Some people said it was hardening. Some said softening. I just said confusing. Senator flake on to declare to cnns jake tapper he cannot vote for trump. Trump tweeted the great state of arizona where i just had a rally, amazing people, has very weak and ineffective senator jeff flake. Sad. Joining the panel, you guys were all here. Okay. Dont laugh. Very sad. So all right. We talk a little bit about immigration earlier but we want to go back into it again because i want to play donald trump in phoenix on wednesday. This was the speech that he gave in phoenix, arizona, in which he seemed to definitively say what his policy was. tlifb. Take a listen. Anyone who has entered the United States illegally is subject to deportation. That is what it means to have laws and to have a country. Extreme vetting. I want extreme. Its going to be so tough. We will break the cycle of amnesty and illegal immigration. We will break the cycle. You cannot obtain legal status or become a citizen of the United States by illegally entering our country. Okay. That was the phoenix speech. This is Kellyanne Conway on sunday, also talking about immigration. This is the campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway. Take a listen. We dont know where well be. We dont know who will be left. We dont know where they live, who they are. Thats the whole point here. We have actually never tried this. He will rescind all those executive amnesties and try to work with the congress. At least hes trying to solve a problem. So steve, you have said earlier you think this policy is clear and definitive. It doesnt seem clear and definitive because each of the surrogates seems to be saying something different. Kellyanne conway seems to be saying something different. Is what we are seeing here an attempt to try to get hispanic voters, latino voters, to take a second look at donald trump by saying hes softening but also to keep the hard liners who like trump because of the wall and the hard line on board . I would argue it doesnt have to be either or. Legal hispanic immigrants and legal immigrants, period, whether from asia, Eastern Europe or wherever theyre from in the world, legal immigrants often despise the fact that Illegal Immigrants are able to hop the line and cheat and get in front of them and compete with them, by the way, in the labor market. Its not an either or scenario. Why is donald trump at 22 in the latest nbc online poll with hispanics which is 5 less than selfdeportation declaring mitt romney and why in the latest public poll hes at 23 , about the same, from august 20 to 28. Why is he losing hispanic voters because the vast majority obviously of hispanic voters are either born in the United States or people who lawfully migrated here. I will be the first to concede we have an uphill battle of convincing voters of color we have their policies at heart and have their backs, frankly, in terms of policy. I want to convince them, i think donald trump does, too, that the Democratic Party has taken them for granted for far too long. Its not so much that their lives matter, its that their votes matter to the Democratic Party. We are telling them something very different. Donald trump went to detroit wait. We are going to get into that. Thats not what we are talking about here. We are talking about hispanic voters and immigration. Fernand, do you think it is possible to have in the same coalition hard line antiimmigration voters including people of the altright who have a racial reason for wanting noneuropean immigration to stop and hispanic voters . No. I will tell you why. You have just seen in those clips why we should stop calling Hillary Clinton the democratic nominee and start calling her the presumptive president elect. Donald trump has touched the third rail issue, immigration. This is not flipflop. This is a face plant for donald trump. He was elected the republican nominee on an ironclad understanding with republican primary voters that every single undocumented immigrant, every single one would be deported if you were elected. He used that bullying tactic to elbow aside jeb bush, john kasich, rand paul, ted cruz, marco rubio, the list goes on and on. The only thing that those extremists on undocumented immigrants hate more than leaving a single undocumented immigrant in this country is having Hillary Clinton president of the United States. This is why they will turn on donald trump because i still believe that even though Hillary Clinton is going toin this election, she would have been very vulnerable to a challenge by some republicans and the con of the donald trump candidacy was to elbow aside some of the republicans who might have beaten her and instead now backing off on his signature issue, lets make no mistake about this, anything less than the deportation of all 11 million undocumented with donald trump as president is a backing off, a face plant on his signature issue and its already cost him this election. Thats simply not true. Thats simply not true. How is it not true . The bedrock principles are no citizenship. If you came here illegally you can he has wavered on that. He also at one point was not clear whether or not he supported birthright citizenship. He has been on both sides of that, too. For you to say he never wavered, theres a reason he wavered in the last 48 hours. How is this even a conversation . He has said consistently from day one and hes never wavered, secure the border he said he never wavered. That doesnt mean he never wavered. No, hes never wavered. If you come here illegally you cannot become a citizen. Period. He has never wavered on that. The reason we are having this conversation is that nobody even on your side, in the Republican Party, knows what Donald Trumps immigration policy is other than that its hard line which turns off hispanic voters. I did today go to the Eastern Parkway labor day parade. One of the things thats really great is that you can come from somewhere like guyana, jamaica, and you can hold on to that heritage, be proud of it, wave your flag, and still also be part of the fabric of the country. It isnt just hispanics who are immigrants. There are immigrants of color who are black, who are of all races. Does this message that donald trump has delivered, whatever the muddle is, does it hurt him further with those immigrants, nonhispanic immigrants . Absolutely. This is another as you talk about the third rail of immigration, the often missed conversation about immigration is that its always concentrated on latinos and hispanic and folks from mexico and never sort of the totality of the immigration that this country experiences. We mentioned before from europe, from Eastern Europe, from africa, from everywhere, Everyone Wants to come here. Everyone is allowed to hold on to their heritage except if you are latino or if you are african, you know, if you are black. Right . So because no one ever disparages at least in this current time because there was a time i ttalians were. I just want to make the point you are absolutely right. We are out of time. We will have you guys back. Thank you, all. I was told to hold this up higher. People cant see it. There it is. It was from my honk and wave earlier. Coming up in the next hour, one of the president ial debate moderators says the candidates are free to lie all they want. Hes not going to correct them. To monitor refinery operations, so our engineers can spot potential problems from any angle. Because safety is never being satisfied. And always working to be better. Because safety is ssoon, shell be bingestudying. Now she writes mostly in emoji. Soon, shell type the best essays in the entire 8th grade. Today, the only spanish words he knows are burrito and enchilada. Soon, hell take notes en espanol. Get back to great with the right gear. From the placeith the experts. Office depot officemax. Gear up for school. Gear up for great. Customer service d. Maam. This isnt a computer. Wait. Youre real . With discover card, you can talk to a real person in the u. S. , like me, anytime. Wow. This is a cording. Really . 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