Usually count on you and i count on you every night. And tonight i was counting on you to cover the flint, michigan, water story and the crimes that have arisen from it that we always in our hearts, if not necessarily our legal minds, believed them to be crimes in that situation in flint water. Im not going to be able to cover it in this hour, and i was counting on you to do exactly what you did in the last hour, as you have led us and this network on this story from the beginning. And once again, what you did tonight on whats happened in flint and the importance of it and identifying the importance of it in this news environment by putting it right up there at the front of your show was so important. And again, its oh, thank you. Im so grateful for it because anyone who missed it, im insisting go find it. Watch the rerun later tonight. It is everything you need to know about it. Thank you, lawrence. Thats very nice of you to say. I mean, my heart is still part of my heart is in flint, and i am still just so devastated by that story. And i do think that it has lessons for us, not just because flint shouldnt be forgotten because of what happened there but also because it does tell us something about what has gone wrong on the political right and the unmooring of the american political right and the way they have gotten away from small deed governance. You know that sounds like an edgy take on it, but thats what i have come to believe covering that story. You went to flint. You did that town hall. I saw the way the audience received you there because they were so grateful of the focus you brought to it on this network. You guided our coverage tonight. Were going to start with congresswoman mary guy scan lan who says he saw these tours going on the day before the invasion of the capitol. People in maga outfits in the complex, including the Congressional Offices and those corridors and those basements, a very, very scary image. Shes going to tell us what she saw and what shes demanding by way of an investigation. Thats excellent. That story is getting bigger and not smaller over time. Im glad youve got that, my friend. It is. Thank you, rachel. Thank you. Well, we ended this program last night with an interview with tim gosar who said that his brother was an organizer and mastermind of the invasion of the capitol. His brother, paul gosar, is a republican congressman from arizona. Tim gosar doesnt speak to his brother anymore because he thinks his brother, the congressman, is a pathological liar and a danger to society. So, tim gosar doesnt have any inside information about what his brother did. That was just tim gosars way of describing the Public Record of what his brother did in encouraging the invasion of the cabinet. Congressman gosar was in Constant Contact with one of the publicly acknowledged organizers of the trump rally that became the invasion of the capitol. Congressman gosar encouraged the mob in every way that he could to think that the election was stolen from donald trump. Congressman gosar dedicated every fiber of his being to that lie every day since election day. While donald trump was on the stage urging the mob to go to the capitol and fight, congressman gosar was tweeting completely fake tough guy stuff that has become the staple of the republican pathological liars in the congress who still support Donald Trumps lie about the election. Congressman gosar demanded via twitter that joe biden deliver his concession to congressman gosar himself the next day. And he ends that threat to joe biden, ends it with this threat to joe biden, dont make me come over there. Oh boy. Dont make me come over there. Or what . Youre going to get violent with joe biden . Youre going to beat him up . Here is the face of that madness. Here is congressman gosar. Psychopath . Sociopath . We can leave that question to Mental Health professionals. But what congressman gosar definitely is tonight is a suspect. His fellow members of congress suspect that republicans, like paul gosar and others, aided and abetted the invasion of the capitol through constant months long promotion of the lie that the invasion was based on, that the election was stolen from donald trump, and that some of them actually provided tours of the capitol complex, including Congressional Office buildings, the day before the invasion of the capitol. If the Republican House members who provided those tours or their Staff Members who provuded those tours knew that the people they were guiding were planning to invade the capitol, then they are all criminal coconspirators in the invasion of the capitol. Our first guest today says that she saw people being guided through the capitol the day before the invasion who looked very much like the people who carried out that invasion the next day. The criminal invaders of the capitol all have one important characteristic in common. They come in various shapes and sizes, including the extraordinarily tall olympic gold medal winning swimmer klete keller. He shares this characteristic with Kevin Siegfried of delaware who carried the battle flag of the treasonous Confederate Army that waged war against the United States. Kevin siefried has been arrested by the fbi and charged along with his son, hunter. We patiently await republican attacks from the siefried crime family, a verbal construct that the fox propaganda channel likes to use for another family from delaware that includes a son named hunter. Father and son share this characteristic with josiah colt who made the most acrobatic entrance to the senate floor that anyone has ever seen and was arrested by the fbi when he got home to idaho. The characteristic that they all share from the nowarrested olympic gold medallist to the rest of them, aside from their observable likeness, is an unshakable stupidity. These are the stupidest people in america. Josiah colt is the spokesperson for the mobs collective stupidity. He issued a written statement to news in idaho saying, i love america. I love the people. I didnt hurt anyone and i didnt cause any damage in the chamber. I got caught up in the moment. Caught up in the moment. The pictures and video weve seen of josiah colt in the Senate Chamber are, as far as they go, consistent with his claim that he didnt hurt anyone or cause any damage. He actually takes credit in his statement for telling others not to do any damage to the senate, claiming that he told them, quote, were still on sacred ground. And there was no damage to the Senate Chamber. His written statement adds, in the moment, i thought i was doing the right thing. Prisons are full of people serving life sentences for something that seemed like the thing to do in the moment. Josiah colt should spend some time in federal prison for what he decided to do when he got caught up in the moment. It should be more time than you get in this college for lying to colleges on your kids applications. The invaders ranged from the misbegotten like josiah colt to the murderous like the people who murdered Capitol Police officer brian sicknick. Robert sanford is a 55yearold former firefighter who was arrested by the fbi in pennsylvania this morning. The fbi has video of Robert Sanford throwing a fire extingisher at Capitol Police. The criminal complaint says the fire extinguisher struck one officer who was wearing a helmet in the head. Then the fire extinguisher ricochets, striking a second officer, who was not wearing a helmet in the head and ricochets a third time and strikes a third officer, wearing a helmet, in the head. Robert sanford faces one criminal charge for entering a restricted building, another charge for disorderly conduct, another charge for assaulting, resisting and impeding officers while, assaulting, throwing a fire extinguisher at someones head more than assaulting. Much more. That is assaulting with a Deadly Weapon. That is attempted murder. And that is exactly what he would be charged with if he was a black man arrested by any other Police Department in any other building in this country at any other time. That is tonights lesson in white privilege, a Deadly Weapon does not have to be a gun or a knife. A Deadly Weapon is anything that can kill. And a fire extinguisher thrown at your head can kill you. Everyone in that mob, including the people like josiah colt who think they did no damage and did no harm, enabled Robert Sanford to throw that fire extinguisher at three Police Officers heads because it was the size of the crowd, the overwhelming size of the mob, that allowed that very cowardly criminal to think that he could try to kill Police Officers and get away with it. But the mob was not acting alone. The president told them to do it. We know the president told them to do it. We were invited here we were invited by the president of the United States they were invited by the president. But who else was in on it . Every republican in the house and the senate who lied to those people and told them that the election was stolen, in effect, encouraged Robert Sanford to pick up that fire extinguisher and throw it and hit three Police Officers in the head. So how guilty are they . How guilty are the pathologically lying republicans in the house and the senate who encouraged that mob . Well get to the legalisms of that question in a moment. But the morality of this should be very clear. Morally, donald trump and those members of congress are just as guilty, just as guilty, as the invaders of the capitol, including the murderers at the capitol. Last night tim gosar said this about his brother, congressman paul gosar. Youre just as guilty as the events and the people and what they did and the five people that lost their lives. So, theres blood on your hands. The fbi director had a message today for everyone who invaded the capitol. From january 6th alone, weve already identified over 200 suspects. So, we know who you are. If youre out there, fbi agents are coming to find you. Leading off our discussion tonight, democratic congressman mary gay scandal of pennsylvania. Also ket yall, former acting u. S. Solicitor general, msnbc legal contributor. Congresswoman scan lynn, tell us what you saw in the capitol and when you saw it and where you saw it. So, with respect to the insurgency, the attack on the capitol, i was not a direct eyewitness to that because fortunately i was in my office across the street. Most of what i saw was the next well, later that night when we returned to complete the counting of the Electoral College votes, probably one of the things that struck me the most was seeing our young staffers who had been in the chamber when it was attacked when they had to be locked down, when the windows were broken and they were cowering behind chairs. Seeing these young people who went back into the chamber to help complete the vote count. But this one young woman had her eyes were red. She was clearly in shock because she had been terrorized. And certainly talking with my colleagues who were trapped in the gallery for a while, folks were terrorized. This was a mob that came up to commit domestic terror. So, i couldnt agree with you more that ultimate responsibility lies with the president who invited the mob and whipped it up and sent it down the mall to invade the capitol. But the members of congress who supported that lie even after the attack and even today who have not apologized for misleading their constituents, for misleading these people into thinking that they were somehow doing the right thing and that they had a right to disrupt congress and terrorize members of congress, the people who work on the hill. Theres a lot of responsibility there. What did you see the day before . And did you see any members of congress guiding giving those tours that you saw the day before . I didnt. Obviously in the last day or so mikey sherrill started circulating a letter that she had seen tour groups and reported it the day before because it struck her with her military training that this was a suspicious activity. I had seen the tour groups, so i joined her letter. It did not strike me in the same way she did because i dont have that kind of training, but it struck me because we have not had tours of the capitol since march because of covid. So, when i saw a group of people touring with, i believe it was a staffer. Could have been a member of congress because we have some new members. But, you know, with masks and because we had only been sworn in one or two days before, that was not my impression. My impression was it was a congressional staffer because thats the only way these people could have gotten in there. Folk who is had on a lot of red gear. Notably what struck me again because this was a covid era regulation, they werent wearing their masks or they were wearing their masks under their chin. Were very conscious. The halls of conscious are tight. Theres not a lot of room. Its an old building. I was not happy to see there were people not abiding by the covid regulations. I assumed it was a new member who didnt know they werent supposed to be giving those tours. But that is why it stood out to me. Then when i learned there might be deeper concerns, i was happy to join the letter. Neal katyal, what were the legal implications of what were seeing and the way tim gosar sees his brothers role, congressman paul gosar, in this . Morally, the way he sees it, his brother is just as guilty for what happened to the capitol as the people who invaded the capitol. Well, lawrence, i think the sad thing is in teaching criminal law, which ive taught about 20 times at georgetown, as a teacher youre struggling to locate a mass crime event that can teach students about a variety of crimes. We make it up. We make up a hypothetical. Its heartbreaking, its chilling, that all of this occurred two blocks away from my law school, georgetown, and that it was real. With respect to representative gosar and other members of congress to the extent that they actually conspired or directly tried to and give aid and comfort to those people who were invading the capitol, thats a clear federal crime. So, seditious conspiracy, which is 18usc 2384 punishes that. Theres an aiding and abetting statute and inciting and insurrection statute. Did you let someone in and didnt know . But did you have some sort of specific intent to try to help these folks . But for some members of congress, the answer to that very well may be yes, and for others it will be no. And thats what a Law Enforcement investigation is all about, and im glad to see the fbi is launching one. And i am 100 sure that in the new administration there will be a real investigation, and these crimes wont be covered up or swept under the rug. The Justice Department for four years has really coddled a lot of these folks and the department of Homeland Security have whitewashed a lot of extremist reports. There will be a new sheriff in town next week, but im pleased to see the fbi this week stepping up. Congresswoman i was going to ask you a bunch of questions i realize you dont know the answers to because you are asking these same questions to the Capitol Police and the sergeant at arms in the letter that youve written demanding information. You ask them, is there a record of all the visitors who came in the day before . Were there ids presented . And you dont know yet if theres any kind of actual record of who was allowed to enter the buildings the day before. Well, i suspect were going to have at least some video record because these folks were, you know, throughout the halls, throughout the tunnels, certainly in areas where there is video. And you know, weve seen theres been a lot of success with tracking people down through video records. So, i suspect well see that and that will help us track it back to the source. At a minimum there was a breach of the protocol because there arent supposed to be people having tours. That may have been instituted because of covid but it may lead us to other facts we need to dig into. Neal katyal, we have to go to a break, but one quick point. I have every one of these federal charging documents laid out on a long table in the next room. But every one i look at with every name of every one of these defendants is a new defendant who donald trump, tonight, could issue a specific pardon to for every single thing theyre charged with on these documents. Right. So, actually already some have asked, i think q shahman has asked the president for a pardon. And given the president s track record on pardons who are knows what he will do. Unfortunately the pardon power is absolute and unsubject to restrictions except if theres a state or local crime, and there may be for some of these people. Thank you both for starting off our discussions tonight. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Coming up, it was a social media insurrection invasion of the capitol. At the end of this hour tonight, trysten harris will join us. You may have seen him on the powerful Netflix Documentary about social media entitled the social dilemma. Also joining us tonight, former member of the economic team, joining joe biden in the white house. Now that republicans are finally feeling what its like to face Death Threats from Trump Supporters, something democratic members of congress have been getting for years. Of congress h getting for years. Pain. Maria had to do everything for me. She had these awful blisters on her back. I dont want shingles when im your age. Actually, if youre 50 or older, youre at increased risk thats life, nothing you can do. 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But the right pad can. Only always ultra thins have rapiddry technology and, they absorb 40 faster. The gush happens fast. Thats why always absorbs faster. Stressballs gummies, with herbal ashwaganda help turn the stressed life into your best life stress less, live more with stressballs its moving day. And while her friends are doing the heavy lifting, jess is busy moving her xfinity internet and tv services. It only takes about a minute. Wait, a minute . But what have you been doing for the last two hours . Delegating . Oh, good one. Move your Xfinity Services without breaking a sweat. Now thats simple, easy, awesome. Xfinity makes moving easy. Go online to transfer your services in about a minute. Get started today. Tonight some republicans in congress are experiencing the fear of Death Threats for the first time. In other words, they are experiencing what democratic members of congress have been enduring from Trump Supporters for years now. Were about to show you some republican members of the house describing their experience receiving Death Threats for the very first time. And as you listen to them, keep in mind that their party has never once expressed any sympathy or solidarity with the members of congress who receive the most Death Threats by far, all of whom are democrats and women of color, who have been demonized relentlessly by the fox propaganda channel. Colleagues that are now traveling with armed escorts out of fear for safety. Many of us are altering our routines, working to get body armor which is a reimbursable purchase that we can make. Its sad that we have to get to that point, but our expectation is that someone may try to kill us. This was dropped off at my office just a few minutes ago, and i i and my colleagues are very, very concerned. Its just a very troubling time for all of us. That can you show that again . That was dropped off at your office. Is that at the capitol . That was taped to my office door just a few minutes ago. Joining us now, White House Correspondent for the pbs news hour and zerlina news hour, both msnbc political analysts. Zerlina, i just want to say to them welcome to life in the trump era. I i know who the most threatened house member is and im not going to get into names here because i dont want to bring more attention to how much just how much of a death threat atmosphere these members live in all the time. But many, many, Many Democrats have been living with these kinds of Death Threats from Trump Supporters every single day of the trump presidency. Ruth, lawrence. I mean, members of the media as well. So, i think certainly when you have allowed White Nationalists and White Supremacists to be emboldened by not condemning them, by not calling them out for violent rhetoric, violence happens. And violence has been happening for many years now. I mean, obviously we all remember the el paso shooting. Obviously there was a synagogue shooting. So, this has been a steady stream of White Nationalist terrorism. And i think that republicans certainly are reaping some of the consequences of the things they have sown. But its important we stamp this out. This is not something that coincides with a democracy. What these folks want is to start a race war and have a white ethnostate. Im not a part of that state, lawrence. So, i think its important that, you know, folks who have a moral compass thats working maybe its these newly woke republicans can all agree that we have to have a basis in truth and facts and also condemn White Nationalism and White Nationalist terrorism wherever we see it, even if its people we see as part of our socalled political coalition. Donald trump was able to keep republicans in line because they feared being challenged in a primary on their Reelection Campaign by someone more supportive of donald trump. Thats what was their biggest fear prior to now. Now theyre afraid of being murdered by supporters of donald trump. Is this something they just woke up to now as a possibility . It seems as though some of them have just started waking up to this possibility. And i think i will say that there is still, i think, politics at play with people still worried about the politics of going against President Trump and his supporters. But when i saw that siege on capitol hill and i saw those people storm the capitol and put law makers lives in danger, the first thought i had was these are the people who are in my inbox. These are the people who are threatening the lives of people who President Trump has targeted. Allies of the president , people close to the president say hes not taking this as seriously when he gets into arguments with people or targets people its donald trump being donald trump. And now we see some republicans starting to realize that donald trump being donald trump puts peoples lives in danger. And i think there is a real realization happening in the Republican Party that they are having to fear and face this monster that was created by President Trump. I was talking to a source today who told me that they were on the phone and someone overheard them say that they were excited about what Vice President pence did in not disrupting the count. And that person was then heckled at the airport. That person tried to explain to the person who was harassing them that they were actually someone who worked on President Trumps campaign. But that person didnt want to hear. Youre either for donald trump or against donald trump. And if youre against donald trump in the eyes of these people who are mobsters in some ways, they are ready to attack you. Its a tough lesson to learn for a lot of republicans. Zerlina, i dont mean to minimize in any way what these republicans are going through, especially because they voted the right way when it came to certifying the electoral votes. Their lives are now in danger and that is thanks to donald trump and what he has created in our politics. But alexandria ocasiocortez released a video last night showing another level of fear, that what she was in the socalled safe room with her colleagues, she was afraid that some of her colleagues might be trying to communicate with those people to tell them where they were and where they could find her. She couldnt spend those hours in that room feeling that they were all trying to protect each other. Thats whats really scary, lawrence, when you have members of Congress Like aoc and aiyana presley who was chief of staff reported that the panic buttons in her office were ripped out of the unit the unit was ripped out of the wall, rather, and that was recorded in the boston globe. So, i think there needs to be a lot more investigating into member of congress and their staffs, frankly, to ensure that all the other members of congress are safe. If you have members of congress that are potentially complicit with the acts of terrorism, then that puts members of congress in even more danger because the enemy is within, even more so than it already is, lawrence. And i think that, you know, unfortunately folks didnt listen to so many commentators, writers, experts on White Nationalism and White Supremacy who have been saying for, you know, five years now the danger of this type of rhetoric, that it leads to violence, that people of color are put in danger. And now its finally come around to these republicans that they should have started listening five years ago. Well, theres a new member of the house, republican side whos a qanon believer. We could expect that all of her staff will be qanon believers. That means theres more than a dozen of them going into the buildings every day. Thats a dangerous situation for everyone. Thank you both for joining us tonight. Really appreciate it. Oh, you can watch zerlinas show teleprompter had a second to tell me about your show. Its on peacock and streams live at 6 00 p. M. Eastern. Coming up, Jerry Bernstein who worked on Economic Policy for joe biden when he was Vice President will be returning to the white house as a member of the president s council on economic add viers. Hell join us next. Viers hell join us next the movie critics are calling, is coming home. She needs new memories. Johanna naj at Fisher Investments, we do things differently and other Money Managers dont understand why. money manager because our way works great for us naj but not for your clients. Thats why were a fiduciary, obligated to put clients first. money manager so, what do you provide . 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That was president elect joe biden in wilmington, delaware, tonight unveiling his 1. 9 trillion coronavirus and economic recovery plan. As of tonight, there are 23,345,787 reported cases of coronavirus in the United States and as of tonight, the United States has suffered 388,599 deaths from coronavirus. Today the department of labor announced that nearly 1 Million People sought unemployment aid last week, the highest number of claims since last august. And joining us now is jared bernstein. He is a member of president elect bidens hes going to be a member of president elect bidens council of economic advisers. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. I really appreciate it. Im wicked jealous. When i was an economics major in college, my ambition changed from being a member of the Boston Red Sox to being a member of the president s council of economic advisers as soon as i learned of its existence. It just sounded so cool. So, anyway, congratulations on that. I agree with you. Let me go to the 600 question, which is president elect biden is proposing what will be a 2,000 payment to individuals. Is that 1,400 in addition to the 600 that just went out, bringing it to a total of 2,000, or is it a new 2,000 collar on top of the 600. It is the former. 14,000, add in the 600, and you dont have to be an economist to do that arithmetic. That gets you to 2,000. If i could say a couple of words about the plan, lawrence. Its been a long day, but im really glad to be ending it with you because you and i have been talking about this sort of thing for a long time. This is just such a critically important moment to aggressively and efficiently attack the dual challenges that have plagued this country for far too long. Of course im talking about the pandemic and the economic crisis that it has engendered. This plan, this American Rescue plan that the president elect talked about tonight, it can control the virus, produce and distribute adequate amounts of vaccine, open up our schools, provide relief from hunger and homelessness, get help to struggling businesses and cut Child Poverty in half. And thats just the first step the president elect talked about tonight. The rescue stuff, it sets up a later package to ensure a racially inclusive, equitable and environmentally sustainable recovery. So, this is the first step of a twostep strategy. Yeah, one of the things that is not always clear to people in packages like this is that the spending, other than the direct spending into peoples accounts, which is so important, the spending is mostly, in effect, a jobs program. You know, this vaccine has to be delivered by people who werent in the business of delivering vaccine six monthsing a, two months ago. So, thats part of what im seeing in this package. Yeah, i think thats really important. I think at the core of the message here is, yes, controlling the virus, distributing the vaccine, reopening our schools, providing first responders, educators the resources they need to get the work done. But all of those are jobs. And ive been working for joe biden for a long time. And great opportunities in the labor market for people who are far too often left out of economic recoveries is at the core of his and the Vice President elects aspirations here. Its part of a plan to mobilize a Public Health jobs program to support the response to control the vaccine and distribute to control the virus and distribute the vaccine. Its a proposal that would fund 100,000 Health Workers that nearly triples the countrys Community Health roles that are already in place but are starved for funds. Thats a critical lynchpin in getting this work completed. As you go forward, how much will Economic Policy interact with Vaccine Distribution, and how much will it guide Vaccine Distribution . Its going to be extremely hard to get this economy back to where it needs to be without a complete revamping of the approach to both virus control and Vaccine Distribution. And i thought the president elect made those points quite full smly tonight. We have an economy thats been operating through this, but its been a massively bifurcated economy. Essential workers have often been exposed to health risks and low pay. We still have double digit unemployment rates, especially for persons of color. For low income people, as i mentioned earlier, they faced a threat of eviction and hunger. I was looking at a statistic today that Something Like 20 of families of color face some sort of a hunger issue. At the same time we have a booming stock market. So, if youre one of those folks whos never missed a paycheck and youve been able to zoom into meetings and your stock portfolio is zooming along, maybe this doesnt sound that familiar to you. But for the many other americans who are struggling to get by, this American Rescue plan will aggressively, effectively and efficiently finally provide the help. Jared bernstein, incoming member of the president s council of economic advisers. Jared, can we switch jobs just for one day . I promise ill sit there and i wont say anything. Ill just pretend i understand what theyre talking about. I think you could do my job better than i could do your job. So, that makes me a little nervous. Were going to find out. Were going to try it. Thank you very much for joining us. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Well, it was a social media run invasion of the capitol, and coming up trysten harris from the documentary the social dilemma will join us on how social media came to this and what banning donald trump from social media can accomplish. Dom social media can accomplish. 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Right now, were tracking calls for potential armed protests and activity leading up to the inauguration. Joining us now is Tristan Harris, former Google Design ethicist and cofounder and president of the center for humane technology. He is featured in the sometimes terrifying Netflix Documentary, the social dilemma. Tristan, thank you very much for joining us again tonight. I have to say one of the things that crossed my mind when i was watching the invasion of the capitol is what is tristan thinking about this . I want you to take that on along with the question of what does it mean, what will be the effect of banning donald trump from social media . Yeah, lawrence, well first of all, thanks for having me on. I am an american and im concerned as much as everybody else was that i, you know, i think a lot of people who saw the social dilemma and heard ken kendall say in the film what he was worried about this would cause. He said civil war. I remember the moment in the editing process someone said that seems too extreme, that seems like too extreme a statement. And it feels like to many people the social dilemma has kind of predicted so much of what happened on january 6th and the process of not just social media but letting this Business Model run for ten years narrowing us into a more and more extreme certain view of reality that really is crazy town, crazy town manifested into what we all saw on that day. I just want to say as a human being concerned about where this is all going like everyone else, my First Response was, oh my god, you know . And thats i think you can see in the film such concern on all of our faces because were so worried about where this goes if we dont intervene. And, you know, theres so much more to say about where we go from here. What about the banning of donald trump from social media that suddenly occurred and took this invasion to do it . Yeah, well, you know, were trapped in this feedback loop where, what is the Business Model of these companies . They have to get more clicks so, you know, that i do better when they serve year affirmation rather than information. When youre in a selfreinforcing cycle, the harder it is us for to agree with each other. So the harder the longer this thing runs the harder it is for us to agree as a culture because our culture is being torn apart then you have decisions like lets moderate content. Well, is that post by donald trump inciting violence or not . Well, the culture, the brain of the psyche of humanity and the country has been split into two so the brain of our country cant agree on whether it incites violence or not because weve been watching different movies of reality. And so theres this weird perverse feedback loop where the longer we wait the longer it is to make any of the decisions first whether its moderating content or how are we going to defeat covid, how are we going to tackle Climate Change or Racial Injustice . All this depends on a shared view of reality. Now, i think what this acknowledges when the companies took this unilateral decision starting with twitter to ban trump unilaterally is about acknowledgement that this is a frankenstein that they dont know how to control except, like, frankly turning off accounts that are strongly associated with leader violence. It shows they dont have a more precise methodology. I think the tech ceos know they dont have a more precise way to d it. I have a friend who runs a factchecking outlet. They have billions of messages that are moving through the system and they only have a few, tens of thousands of fact checkers. Right . So the scale of potential incitements of violence or harm or rumors or misinformation is so much more than they have capacity to deal with it, and so thats really where we are. And i think the thing we need to come together and realize is that we have become a cyborg democracy in the same way that a person whos got a brain implant is now a cyborg, theyre not just a human. Were a cyborg democracy except this brain implant drove us crazy. When this digital sort of takeover of our National Brain took over, what happens is private Companies Start eating up public interests and it deregulates those public interests as i say in the film. We have saturdaymorning cartoons in the physical world, when big tech eats up saturdaymorning car the economy, makes youtube take that over, we lose saturday morning protections. We lose all the norms and lose democratic decisionmaking. I dont think any of the companies wanted this to happen but they dont have a better option. What we need now is really sting like a Constitutional Convention for the Digital World because its not the case that we should not have articles of impeachment for actors who abuse the system, we should have if were a digital nation, there should be digital articles of impeachment certain people in that digital nation. It should be a democrat process, not an autocratic one made by three tech ceos. Will donald trump, if he continues to be banned by the major social media, and parler is knocked off the way it has been so far, will donald trump find a way back into some kind of guerilla social media . Well, its its interesting watching the firstfy days like everybody else. He kept popping up. It was a whackamole game. It was quite literally the case he started popping up on different accounts on twitter and the other platforms. You know, i think at some point you probably get exhausted. You know, he could always create his own social media network, but one of the powers of social media is the network effect. We call them netcaf monopolies based on metcalfs law. The power and growth of the network scales exponentially the more people are on it. You dont want to lead to some other network because theres not enough people there. You want to be on the regular, where everyone else is talking. Thats whats interesting about where we are. Tristan harris, thank you for joining us. Really appreciate it. I wanted to get your perspective on this since the day that it happened. Thank you so much. Always, lawrence, thanks for asking such great questions. Thank you. Tristan harris gets tonights last word. The 11th hour with Brian Williams starts right now. Well, good evening once again, day 1,456 of the trump administration. That leaves just six days until the inauguration of joe biden as our 46th president. Tonight, there are more u. S. Troops in washington than we currently have deployed in iraq, syria, and afghanistan combined. The u. S. Capitol and increasingly the network mall are armed encampments, in effect. Sadly, they need to be. Eight days after insurrectionists looted and desecrated the center of our gove