President harris and Senate Majority leader Chuck Schumer and House Speaker nancy pelosi, if the polls showing joe biden with double digit lead are accurate and donald trump and Vladimir Putin are unable to steal the election, then radio talk show host could be Donald Trumps best Case Scenario for next year. The worst Case Scenario is criminal defendant, which seems a bit more likely today with the latest installment of the New York Times investigative reporting on Donald Trumps tax returns showing a mysterious transfer of 21 million from las vegas to donald trump and possibly illegally to the trump president ial campaign. Well have more on the possible crimes that could be involved in that transfer of money later in this hour. Donald trump and Rush Limbaugh inadvertently left a very important marker for political historians today, proving that a linchpin of republican governing policy and morality is a complete lie. Here is that moment. I was in not great shape. And we have a medicine that healed me, that fixed me. Its a great medicine. Im just saying that we have something that will cure this now, a cure. If donald trump was cured of coronavirus with the experimental medicine that hes received, if he was cured, as Rush Limbaugh so clearly believes he was, if donald trump was cured as the fox hosts all believe that he was, then donald trump was cured, his life was saved, by abortion. Of course none of the medicine donald trump has taken can be called a cure. We dont know enough about the coronavirus or the medicines to know how helpful they might have been in Donald Trumps case. And at least two of the medicines he has taken, including the one he publicly raved about the most, were developed using human cells taken from a fetus that was aborted in the 1970s when donald trump was patrolling new york nightclubs instead of the jungles of vietnam thanks to a doctor telling his draft board about a bone spur in Donald Trumps foot that hasnt bothered him since. So now you know that republican politicians and Rush Limbaugh and fox propagandists are all opposed to abortion except when it can help them. They are not opposed to abortion. It was all ally. That is the book, and now he is telling us that everything republicans have stood for was a lie. Now, i grew up catholic in boston so i know and love people who truly believe abortion is murder. But none of them are politicians. When the sun set today, without a single elected republican anywhere in america objecting to donald trump using medicines derived from abortion, we have reason to believe that theyve all been lying about their opposition to Fetal Stem Cell Research that has helped develop many lifeimproving and lifesaving medicines. There are no doubt millions of people in this country who are opposed to any and all abortions. But donald trump is not one of them and never has been. And Rush Limbaugh is not one of them. Rush limbaugh has spent years demonizing democrats for supporting abortion rights and Stem Cell Research using fetal tissue from abortions. And today, Rush Limbaugh is celebrating that Stem Cell Research that he claimed to oppose. Some of the vaccines for coronavirus that are being developed now that donald trump is so excited about have also used cells from an aborted fetus in their development. If a safe and effective vaccine is developed that uses that used cells from an aborted fetus in its development, donald trump is going to use that vaccine and Rush Limbaugh is going to use that vaccine and the fox propagandists and republican members of congress who say they opposed Stem Cell Research are going to use that vaccine because none of them are really opposed to the abortions that have allowed that medical research that has been so valuable and that can save their lives. It was all a lie. Thats what donald trump and Rush Limbaugh left for future historians today. Another proof of the utter emptiness of trumpism in the Republican Party that was able to embrace trumpism, because as it turns out, they were lying about everything and believing in nothing including what professional republicans claimed was their religiously derived opposition to abortion. They lied about abortion to win the votes of people who truly are opposed to abortion. Republican Party Professionals are now opposed to all abortions except abortions that can help donald trump. Thats their position tonight. Thats what the Republican Partys official position on abortion has become as of today. History will show that donald trump did not capture the Republican Party. He did not convert the Republican Party. He exposed the professionals in the Republican Party and showed that there is no lie that they cannot accept. There is no lie that they will not tell for donald trump. Donald trump made other news in his hours on the radio today. He discovered live on the air with Rush Limbaugh that axios reports that the justice departments review of the origins of the russia investigation will not be released before the election. Donald trump was clearly shocked by that news. He called it a disgrace. He had previously said that attorney general William Barrs service would be judged by whether he brought federal indictments against president barack obama, Vice President joe biden, hillary clinton, and several others before election day. And although that sounds like the rantings of a madman to the same majority of americans, its just another day on the Rush Limbaugh radio show. Because of Donald Trumps pathological need to lie about everything, every big thing, and every little tiny thing, the 70yearold covid patient repeatedly lied about joe bidens age, calling him 78, when joe biden is actually 77. Whats so important about that is the relentless desperation of trump lying, in the twisted, sick mind of donald trump, he actually believes lying about joe bidens age by one year is somehow worth doing and worth doing repeatedly. It somehow gets him closer to reelection, in his twisted mind. Having completely corrupted the medical credibility of the navy doctor who currently serves as the president s physician, donald trump is planning to have some kind of Public Campaign event at the white house tomorrow with an audience that will probably be comprised of Republican Party staffers and republican congressional staffers who will be all but forced to attend. The Republican Party chair wont be there, of course, because she has covid19. Tomorrow, donald trump will be proving what joe biden said about him today in las vegas. His reckless personal conduct since his diagnosis, the destabilizing effect its having on our government is unconscionable. He didnt take the necessary precautions to protect himself or others. And the longer donald trump is president , the more reckless he gets. How can we trust him to protect this country . Governor, youve seen how he picks fights with states and pits them against one another. Look whats happened. More than 210,000 americans are dead. 420,000 have been hospitalized. We lose anywhere from 700 to 1,000 people every single day in america. Worse than any country in the world. More than 7. 5 million americans have been infected and were still counting. At another event in las vegas today, joe biden stressed the importance of early voting. Hes trying to scare us. Hes trying to convince everybody theres ways they can play with the vote and undermine the vote. They cant. If we show up, we win. And look whats happening in early voting all across america. Long lines. Long lines. We cant just win. We have to win overwhelmingly so he cant be in a position where he can put the phony challenges in hes talking about. Leading off our discussion tonight, yamiche alcindor, White House Correspondent for pbs news hour, and jonathan alter, column ivity columnist for the daily beast and the author of jimmy carter a life. Both are msnbc analysts. Yamiche, what is going to happen at the white house tomorrow . Well, whats going to happen at the white house is the president is going to be speaking on a balcony before we think possibly hundreds if not dozens of people. And the people that are coming to the white house tomorrow, theyll be given a mask or be instructed to have masks with them. Theyre going to be instructed to wear those masks. But theyre not going to be tested before they go onto the white house grounds. Instead theyre going to face a series of questions. Theyll have their temperatures checked. Whats remarkable about all this, of course, is that the white house is still dealing with a coronavirus outbreak within its own walls. So the most protected place in the United States is not going to be able to protect itself before and it wasnt able to protect itself now tomorrow. Whats also remarkable here is there are staffers who are telling me and other reporters that theyre essentially freaking out. Theres mayhem at the white house, because so many people are scared, so many people have tested positive. Something more than 35 members of the white house staff have now tested positive. Thats a remarkable number when you think about the fact that a lot of these people are young staffers who have been looking to their bosses for direction on how they can navigate this pandemic. But the president is desperate, really, really desperate to get out there. He sees joe biden out on the campaign trail and he wants to see a crowd. So because he cant go on the campaign trail as of now, hes bringing the campaign trail to the white house. But jonathan, his campaign now, such as it is, is not even attempting to reach anyone who isnt already voting for him, like the Rush Limbaugh audience or the fox propaganda audience. There he is with Rush Limbaugh today, unbeknownst, because they know nothing about the Stem Cell Research that donald trump is touting, but there they are today leaving this marker for history that everything weve said about tissue obtained through abortion for Stem Cell Research, that was all just a lie because if that abortion can produce tissue that helps donald trump, were all cool with that. Well, you know, Rush Limbaugh, a hypocrite, who knew . Im not exactly shocked by the hypocrisy of banana republicans, as i think they should be called nowadays. They have failed the character test and failed their generation. I dont think we should lose sight of this tomorrow. Its double trouble. Just when you think donald trump has touched bottom, he crashes right through the floor. Its another potential super spreader event after they just had one in the rose garden. And its also totally improper if not illegal to hold a Campaign Rally at the white house. So this is just, you know, a festival of corruption that were seeing every day. There is something new to shock the conscience. And it just accelerates the pace of outrage in a way that theyre trying to disorient democrats and keep them almost paralyzed by their paroxysms of anger. And the clarity here that democrats have to keep in mind is that he must lose by a lot or we have a constitutional crisis. So, you know, winning by three or four points is not going to do it. And that lends a kind of historic quality to the next three weeks. Yeah, as jonathan says, joe biden is stressing that, that were going to have to win by a lot to put this thing beyond legal challenge in court. Latest pew polls showing joe biden ten points up, 5242, biden being above 50 in these polls is increasingly important as the days close in on this. And theres more, in the New York Times reporting about polls in other states, saying new polls show mr. Trumps support is collapsing nationally as he alienates women, seniors, and suburbanites. Hes trailing not just in mustwin battlegrounds but according to private gop surveys he is repelling independents to the point where mr. Biden has drawn closer in solidly red states including montana, kansas, and missouri. Thats according to people who have seen that internal republican polling data. And yamiche, are you picking up that at the white house, that they are aware of this very troubling, for them, republican polling, inside the system republican polling showing theyre in trouble in republican states . On the surface the white house insists that this polling that shows President Trump behind in some key battleground states as well as nationally as well as among seniors and so many other constituencies that helped them in 2016, theyre saying, dont believe the polls, the polls were wrong in 2016, hes in a good place, he trusts his instincts. In you talk to his supporters, theyre very concerned by calling off covid19 relief funds in the middle of a pandemic where millions of americans are looking for jobs, where the Federal Reserve chairman says if there isnt a stimulus package, that the economy could falter. And that of course is also in some ways is continuing to want to be out there even though he is infected with the coronavirus. So there are people who are very, very worried about the fact that the president doesnt seem to really understand the situation and doesnt really seem to understand that there are a lot of americans, republican and democrat, who are looking at the federal government for guidance and looking for the federal government to say how are we going to get through this as an american country, apart from the policies, how can i trust this person to lead us through a pandemic and a crisis. And there are a lot of republicans, women and seniors that ive talked to personally, who said, yes, i might have liked the president at the beginning, he got us a Supreme Court nomination, but now ive had pretty much enough with the antics. Jonathan, weve got less than four weeks left and you have a candidate who doesnt even know how to help himself, destroying any possibility of a Coronavirus Relief package which is money that people need in their hands, is very clearly all on him. And then he kind of reopened negotiations today, but he was negotiating with Rush Limbaugh on the radio, saying, oh, im in favor of more than i said i would be in favor of before. So hes contradicting his previous positions, and people who are not Rush Limbaugh fans know why that money is not coming their way. You know, the senate doesnt come back until october 19. So time is getting short. It takes about two weeks to get those checks out and into peoples hands. Obviously trump wants to buy as many votes as he can with a stimulus as close to the election as he can. But he might be running out of runway here. Dont underestimate, though, his ability to try to cut a check to every american. And the computers in washington are pretty good about getting them out fast. So he might still pull this stimulus out. And that could help him. And also, you know, because of the last stimulus, many americans, a majority of americans, believe theyre better off than they were four years ago, which is a troubling indicator. There are many good indicators for democrats. But thats a troubling one for them. And there is still a path to trump winning this election that goes through pennsylvania. So complacency would not be in order at this point. Jonathan alter, yamiche alcindor, thank you very much for starting off the discussion this friday night, i appreciate it. Thanks, lawrence. Coming up, dr. Anthony fauci is speaking more freely as election day looms, calling a trump event as a super spreader. Donald trump is planning another Campaign Event at the white house tomorrow that could be his next super spreader. After this break well have more on the infected covid patient who escaped from Walter Reed Medical Center and who will be once again violating all cdc guidelines at the white house tomorrow. When joe biden wants an update on the virus, he calls on the nations top health experts. Working together, for all americans, is what joe does. When writing his healthcare plan, joe biden worked with both doctors and patients to make healthcare affordable by lowering premiums, reducing drug costs, and protecting people with preexisting conditions. Joe listened to both Small Business owners and workers to create his economic plan that cuts taxes for middle class families, creates 18 million new jobs in his first term, and raises wages by as much as 15,000 a year. Joe bidens plans will help working families immediately by making the super rich finally pay their fair share. For joe, its never been about ego. Its always been about the work he can do for working families. Its what hes always done. Joe biden brings everyone to the table and gets it done. Im joe biden, and i approve this message. Smooth driving pays off with allstate, the safer you drive the more you save you never been in better hands allstate click or call for a quote today more dangerous and corrupt president than trump. Hes harming our basic values, giving rise to hate, and hes selling out america to big corporations. Im working to protect immigrants, women, communities of color, and lgbtq people. And im making corporations like pg e and Insurance Companies play by our rules. We need experienced leadership to wipe away trumps stain on america for good. With what may be only 25 days left in Donald Trumps full grip on white house power before a transition to the biden administration, today dr. Anthony fauci was willing to call a super spreader a super spreader. We had a super spreader event in the white house. And it was in a situation where people were crowded together, and were not wearing masks. So the data speak for themselves. If donald trump is out of office next year, dr. Fauci will surely take on an even more prominent role in fighting the coronavirus and an army of lying trump operatives will try to fade into the woodwork in washington and home that ten years from now in their Republican Party jobs or their corporate jobs, they will hope that no one remembers the lies they told on behalf of donald trump and the harm that they personally helped donald trump do, including the ways in which they helped donald trump make millions of people even more vulnerable to the coronavirus by constantly lying about what we needed to know about it and do about it. One of the hundreds of people in washington who is going to want you to forget what he did and what he said for donald trump is Deputy White House press secretary ryan morganstern who tried to lie his way past Hallie Jackson on msnbc today. When was the the president s last negative test prior to his diagnosis . So we dont have that. You dont know or you dont want to say . So, uh, we dont have that. Well, i dont personally know. Right. What does that mean . There are on wednesday you said you were going to look into that. Hallie, the president doesnt check all of his hipaa rights at the door when he becomes president. So its a privacy thing, the reason why youre not saying the last negative test, hipaa . So that is one reason. Did the president at least comply with the Cleveland Clinic debate requirements to be tested before the debate . Yes or no, do you have an answer . You have to talk to the white house about very important issues. Joining our discussion, dr. Vin gupta, Global Health official from the University Medical center. He is an msnbc medical contributor. And doctor, its so important that so Brian Morganstern never, never, ever came close to answering the question, when is the last time Donald Trump Tested negative before you reported he tested positive. He tried to behind behind hipaa which they use selectively for some of the information and they hide behind it on other answers. But why is that such an important question . Good evening, lawrence. Let me tell you why its important. Today we got even more proof directly from the president that he is suffering the ill effects of severe covid19 pneumonia. He said, quote unquote, there was some congestion in there, when asked whether he had had a cat scan of his lungs. There were reports he had oxygen saturations ive been monitoring my own oxygen saturations with a pulse oximeter, ill get back to that in a second. He had less than 94 , hes short of breath, hes being treated as if he has had severe covid19 pneumonia. He admits to have congestion, that is aka pneumonia, on a ct scan. Why does that matter . Number one, if what was happening on fox today resembled anything like a postcovid19 followup covid19 visit, we would have gotten a sixminute walk test. We slap one of these guys onto the president , walk him for six minutes, take him up the white house stairs, see what he does, does that oxygen level dip . Chest xrays, as hallie was trying to do, lets get an actual swab that can give us a sense of how infectious he may or may not be. The fact that we dont have that shows what a sham this exam was on fox news. I want to make sure the American People know, that is not modern medicine. Thats not medicine thats practiced in pulmonary clinics across the country. I dont want people to feel like theyre losing faith in the process. There is a process. Number two, theyre conflating resolution of systems with a lack of infectivity. Lawrence, this is important for tomorrow. Just because you might feel better, and in the president s case, he had a cough on fox, he seemed a little less energetic. It does not mean hes not a harm to others. He had severe covid19 pneumonia. He should be isolating for 20 days according to cdc guidelines. The white house is scheduling an event tomorrow where theyre hoping to get up to 2,000 people. That would be even more than the number of people who showed up at what dr. Fauci is calling the super spreader event a couple of saturdays ago for the announcement of the Supreme Court nominee. 2,000 people, white house south lawn, tomorrow, with the president. I feel for dr. Fauci. And i am here expressing the anger of everybody here in public health, those of us on the front lines. This is dereliction of duty. He is putting at risk individuals who want to see him. Theyre fans of his. Theyre supporters of his. Theyre taking him at his word. Im feeling okay, therefore im not a harm to you. Thats false. Thats sending a misleading message to the American People that if youve had covid19, severe covid19 pneumonia, the second you feel better, youre not a harm to others . That is false. The president should not be propagating that rumor or that lie. He should be actually extolling the truth and be an advocate for the truth to protect us, not to harm us. Thats really misleading. I hope anybody who is considering that event tomorrow at the white house lawn, do not go if you care about your own health or the health of your loved ones. In the next trump event that hes planning, monday in florida, that means air force one, that means plenty of staff, that means a lot of people on the plane with the president. That means people on the helicopter with him on the way to the plane. What precautions should they take if the president cannot be stopped from this idea . If you have to accompany the president because its your job and youre not able to say no to the president or resign, which is what i would recommend, you should try to get your hands on a wellfitting n95 masks. Im saying this to all the president s inner circle here. Do whats right for your family, your loved ones, and yourself, equally importantly. Get an n95 mask. Do what you can to save your life and potential exposure and make sure youre testing yourself on the front end and on the back end with a high quality test. Thats the least you can do. And if you can, try to avoid the president on the flight. Dr. Vin gupta, thank you very much for joining us again tonight. Thank you. Up next, donald trump is running for reelection like a very sick man on steroids who is afraid of becoming a criminal defendant next year if he is not still the president of the United States. The new potential criminal case against donald trump is next. Still a father. But now a friend. Still an electric car. Just more electrifying. Still a night out. But everything fits in. Still hard work. Just a little easier. Still a legend. Just more legendary. Chevrolet. Making lifes journey, just better. To customizes yourcanrney, gocar insurancetual. Com so you only pay for what you need . Really . I didnt aah ok. Im on vibrate. Aaah only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. 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Traffic and air pollution will be even worse after the pandemic. Thats why we support measure rr to keep caltrain running. Which is at risk of shutdown because of the crisis. To keep millions of cars off our roads, to reduce air pollution and fight climate change. And measure rr helps essential workers like me get to work and keep our communities healthy. Relieve traffic. Reduce pollution. Rescue caltrain. [all] yes on measure rr. Donald j. Trump needed money. That is the first sentence of the New York Timess latest reporting, showing how money from a Las Vegas Hotel that donald trump appears to coown, quote, flowed in a chain of transactions to several trumpcontrolled companies and then directly to mr. Trump himself. The New York Times consulted a tax law professor at New York University school of law who raised legal questions about the 21 million. Unless the payments were for actual business expenses, he said, claiming a Tax Deduction for them would be illegal. If they were not legitimate and were also used to fund mr. Trumps president ial run, they could be considered Illegal Campaign contributions. Joining us is glenn kirschner, a former prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst. Glenn, as i was reading that story i was wondering what does a federal prosecutor see in that reporting by the New York Times. Good evening, lawrence. And you cant draw a definitive conclusion based on the reporting that donald trump committed potentially more tax felonies, tax evasion, Campaign Finance violations, just as you cant look at a tax return in isolation or in a vacuum and conclude that somebody committed crimes. You have to look at all of the underlying financial documents. You have to run collateral interviews to see if whats in those documents is accurate or not. But boy, when you read the reporting, it sure looks potentially criminal. And, you know, if you commit federal tax evasion, one count, youre looking at five years. If you file, you know, multiple false tax returns, that is five years per. And a judge in his or her discretion could run those sentences consecutive to one another. You know, five years on top of five years, it adds up pretty quickly. Then of course hes also potentially looking at state tax violations. New york state, of course, has been investigating him. Cy vance, the manhattan d. A. s office. He seems to have a little bit of a head start over the feds. Now, in new york, if you commit tax fraud or tax evasion, it can be a misdemeanor or it can go all the way up to 25 years in prison. So it looks like this is yet another potential crime that we can put in the donald trump criminal bucket. The times is reporting on money that was needed for the campaign. Theres a lot of reporting about how the campaign was in trouble for money. And of course we all remember that donald trump, lying that he was a billionaire, was telling his followers at the beginning of the campaign that he was going to pay for the entire campaign himself. And were going to hear him say that on video now, and hes talking about how he was refusing contributions from friends of his, in this case phil ruffin who is the person who is involved in transferring that 21 million that the times is tracking in the article. Lets listen to donald trump lying about how he was going to finance his campaign. Hes driving me crazy. He said, donald, i want to put 10 million into your campaign. I said, phil, i dont want your money, i dont want to do it, im selffunding. Every time i see him, its hard for me to turn down money because thats not what ive done my whole life, i grab and grab and grab. Glenn, according to the New York Times, he kept grabbing, he did not selffund his campaign. His lips are moving, lawrence, so im skeptical of whats coming out of his mouth. When we see reporting about the possible donald trump crime du jour, it takes me back to when i was a federal prosecutor at the dcu attorneys office, when i had a defendant, some of them reminded me of donald trump, who had committed so many crimes, you would be surprised, some of these men, generally men, my defendants were, would commit, eight, ten, 12, 15 crimes. And what i had to do was figure out which were the most important, which were the most readily provable, which should i go after first, because we cant lose sight of the fact that you can only imprison a man for but one lifetime. Lawrence, when you look at what donald trump has done, on the public reporting, whether its the conspiracy to committee Campaign Finance violations with michael cohen, whether its obstructing justice times ten as meticulously documented by bob mueller in volume 2 of the trump russia report, whether it is obstructing congressional inquiries my telling all of the executive branch officials, do not comply with lawfully issued congressional subpoenas, thats a crime. Thats witness tampering. By tweeting out intimidating tweets, about marie yovanovich, while she is actually testifying to congress. You have in my opinion, as a 22year homicide prosecutor, tens of thousands of Involuntary Manslaughter or negligent homicide offences based on his horrible abdication of his responsibilities to handle the coronavirus pandemic. You can only confine a man for but one lifetime. Where do we start . Its going to be an embarrassment of riches beginning in january. Glenn kirchner, youve just expanded the possible list of criminal liabilities facing the president if joe biden is inaugurated. Mine was about half as long as that. Glenn kirchner, thank you very much for joining us, we really appreciate it. Up next, the terrorist plot against the governor of michigan is now a criminal federal and state case against 13 accused terrorists in michigan. Our next guest says the michigan arrests will not stop White Supremacists from continuing to plot terrorist kidnappings and murders. 1 for diabetic dry skin 1 for psoriasis symptom relief and 1 for eczema symptom relief gold bond champion your skin grenew active. Only from unitedhealthcare. Watch it sweat it bend and stretch it track it share it and compare it renew active gives you so many ways to be healthy. Get medicare with more. To treat her beforefrequent heartburn, 24hr marie could only imagine enjoying freshly squeezed orange juice. Now no fruit is forbidden. 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And when you get a big deal. You feel like a big deal. Priceline. Every trip is a big deal. This morning Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer said that Donald Trumps statements have been encouraging to the accused terrorists who were caught on tape by the fbi plotting to kidnap here. Each time he has tweeted about me, each time he has said liberate michigan and said i should negotiate with the very people who were arrested because theyre good people, that incites more domestic terror. And im not the only governor going through this. Certainly its been worse for me than most. But it is not unique to me. It is not even unique to democrats. This white house has a duty to call it out and they wont do it. In fact they encourage it. Kathleen ballou is an expert on the White Power Movement that likes to falsely call itself a militia. She warns the plot against Governor Whitmer will not be the last such threat, writing in the Washington Post today, its part of a rising tide of white power activity, one that poses an imminent danger to american democracy. The department of homeland securitys threat assessment report released earlier this week after a long wait made that clear. White Power Movement violence and affiliated extremism is by far the greatest terrorist threat to our nation. In the Washington Post today, she gave a chilling list. So heres a partial list of violence white power activists have caused or attempted since the early 1980s detonating a Nuclear Power plant with a bomb. Stealing military weapons including antitank weapons from military posts and armories. Assassination of political opponents. Assassination of state troopers, federal judges, people who make Multicultural Television shows, and fbi agents. Murder of unfaithful women. Murder of people in interracial relationships. Trying and hanging of elected officials, journalists. Attempts to steal surface to air missiles. Bombing of gas lines. Bombing of the hoover dam. Bombing of bridges. Bombing of synagogues. And bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building. They succeeded at that, in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people, not all of them federal workers. 19 children were killed by honorably discharged army veteran Timothy Mcveigh in the bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building. Those children were at the Daycare Center in the building. Eight federal Law Enforcement agents were killed that day. Timothy mcveigh started down the road to terrorist mass murder when he got involved in a group that called itself the michigan militia. Kathleen ballou, the author of bring the war home the White Power Movement and paramilitary america, will join our discussion next. Whoa i feel good i knew that i would, now i feel good get a dozen double crunch shrimp for one dollar with any steak entree. Only at applebees. 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They say a plot to kidnap. You have to remember, are thaw trying to kidnap . A lot of people are angry with the governor. Are they trying to arrest or a kidnap attempt to. Its michigan, if its a felony, you can make a felony arrest. Sounds like a sheriff who will not be breaking up terrorist plots any time soon. Joining us is kathleen ballou, i would like to begin with what we just heard. With this sheriff, local sheriff in michigan. What is your reaction to that . You know, this many parts of the tarry harken back to the milit militia activism, ander with here we have a local sheriff who is defending the right of a militia to defend the ball. All 50 states have laws on the books of exactly this. Militias are not allowed to did the work of policing or soldiering in any states, and some states have intimidating with republicans or conspiracy at the polling place. We have a long level of history, and these kinds of movements supporting this kind of action, there is a long string of action in a group that believes in no legitimate Law Enforcement higher than the local sheriff. As you are speaking, on the screen, we saw photographs of this sheriff at rallies with some of these defendants. Its up there on the screen. To show you how powerful the overlap is. He is friends with these people. The distinction is not so clear tonight. I think the distinction is that the sheriff is a Law Enforcement officer and the militia have not. Whether that sheriff is exercising his duty is a different question. We have safeguards around that. But there is no safeguard in activity beyond the prosecution under the day. We have seen several members treated as neutral ar bit tbito the dau. And one might think of the reports of holding protestors for arrest in portland, and so heavily armed around the rallies in charlottesville, that the Virginia Governor couldnt end out police because they were outgunned. The groups are never neutral. They are always a part of intimidation and violent threat, and some of them strayed further along that path to domestic extremism and stror. The plot to kidnap the governor is not new. The plots to hold judges, and holding them for trial, though its not clear in the case, for material was thought to the be hanging via oak tree. So there is a very real chance what they meant by that was not just trial but execution. These kinds of things have appeared to us many times in the past, the militia of montana sought this kind of strategy, and so did the order earlier in the 1980s. We have been with this movement for decades, if not generations. The question is, why is it still here . Why have we not confronted this threat . What is your reaction to Governor Whitmer saying she believing trump is encouraging this threat . I think that is right. In the most generous interpretation of what trump said, just take the for example last week with the debate and the proud boys, its possible that he meant to tell the group to stand down. He didnt tell them to stand down. He said to standby, and a bunch of activists have been effectively called to arms by the president s comment. Its not just who he who says this, not just historians. His own department and fbi have said that affiliated groups is now the largest source of terrorism violence in the american homeland. More than antifa in the left, more than islamic jihadism. They also said that 2019 was the most violent, the most fatal year for this violence since the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995. That bombing was the largest mass casualty event on american soil between pearl harbor and 9 11. That was not a one off event. It was part of a social movement with deep roots in society. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. Really appreciate it. Thank you for having me. The 11th hour with Brian Williams starts now. Good evening once again as we bring another week to a close. Day 1,359 of the trump administration. 25 days until of president ial election day with the number of coronavirus cases now rapidly a our country. Tomorrow the president who is still recovering from the coronavirus, who still may be contagious and shedding virus is scheduled to hold his first event since his release from the hospital five days ago. Hes expected to speak to supporters gathered on the south lawn about law and order. On monday trump plans to travel to florida for a rally. More on that in a moment. In the meantime, the white house is refusing to answer tests the president has been given. Whether the virus is still in his system, for starters. Hes been trying to convince a nervous nation via nonstop interviews on fox news that the coronavirus isnt a threat