I cannot wait to see this. Its all yours. Rachel, thank you very much really appreciate it thank you. I have been riveted to every word of interviews bob woodward has given about his new book rage, and i have a list of things that have not been included in any of his previous interviews including his reporting on the Mueller Investigation, which in this book is called the rosenstein investigation because this book makes clear that Robert Mueller was never really in charge of that investigation because Rod Rosenstein was bob muellers boss in the Justice Department and he kept tight contro of the investigation all the way. This book has the first words attorney general william barr said privately after reading the Mueller Report it has cinematic screens, the secretary of defense repeatedl getting into this position of watching missiles being launched from north korea not knowing whether this would be the one headed for seattle that would force him to launch a response, possibly a nuclear response. I will get to all of that and more in this hour. But we begin with the tragedy that is central to this book many of the most dramatic and deadly chapters of American History have begun with shots fired, the revolutionary war, the civil war, the assassination of president lincoln, world war i, the surprise attack on pearl harbor that pulled the United States into world war ii, the attack o 9 11, the American Invasion of afghanistan, followed by the American Invasion of iraq. The dramatic and deadly chapter we are living through tonight that left more american dead than most of our wars began not with shots fired but with a memo on july 1st of this year the memo was marked at the top and bottom for internal use only, not for distribution its a cdc memo entitled china pneumonia of unknown etiology. Situational report, january 1, 2020 top line message says the Current Situation relates to epidemic of pneumonia of unknown etiology centralizing on a local Seafood Market in wuhan, china. A 79yearold physician who spent his entire life studying and fighting Infectious Diseases had this reaction to that memo china, new virus wet market wow. His name is anthony fauci. We know all of this from Bob Woodwards new book, rage, where that cdc memo appears reproduced in full we have had 45 president s of the United States and we have had exactly one bob woodward no one else in American History political or journalism histor has done what bob woodward has done he has written about nine consecutive president s from Richard Nixon to donald trump. That is 20 of american president s, 20 of our president s have come under Bob Woodwards journalistic microscope with the closest aides to close president s and members of the cabinet and often members of their family and the president s themselves sometimes telling bob woodward everything they know on tape. No one else in American History has been able to make that close a study of 20 of our president s over a 50year period. Some of those president s submitted to interviews with bob woodward some of them didnt. But none of his interviews with previous president s prepared him for the phone calls he was going to be getting from donald trump for this book beginning at the end of last year and running through most of this year. Bob woodward had 19 conversations with donald trump covering 9 hours and 41 minutes. And donald trump used an astonishing amount of that time to talk about the book itself. The book that he was givin interviews to create donald trump repeatedly asked bob woodward about the book. Would it be a good book for trump . Would it be a bad book for trump . Donald trump worried aloud with bob woodward on tape about how george w. Bush submitted to interviews with bob woodward and then bob woodward made president bush look like an idiot according to donald trump who never gave the slightest hint that he had read a single word of any of Bob Woodwards previous 19 books. At the end of one of their last phone conversations, President Trump said, hey, bob, could i call you later so i can get to these generals to make sure everything is good i said i still wanted to push on some of these questions. I dont mind, he said. I hope youre truthful if youre truthful, youre going to write a good book, an if youre not truthful, youre going to hit me. Three days later on june 22nd of this year, after bob woodward had already completed a first draft of this book, President Trump called again at 8 15 p. M during that phone call Melania Trump enters the room and the president says honey, im talkin to bob woodward and said that bob woodward was writing a book about him. And then he said, it will probably be atrocious, but thats okay. Donald trumps obsession with the book constantly recurs throughout the interviews for the book the new yorkers review of the book begins with this line, why would President Trump cooperate with bob woodward . The answer that seems to emerge from the book is tha even donald trump knows that bob woodward writes the first draft of history of american president s and donald trump wanted to win that first draft of history he wanted to be the hero of this book but this book is a tragedy because it tells the story of President Trumps failure to mount a full mobilization of the federal government and the American People against the coronavirus, and that failure has this country now approaching 200,000 deaths tonight from the coronavirus. On page 376 bob woodward writes history might blame him for mishandling the crisis and then 16 pages later on the final page of the book, bob woodward delivers the verdict of the first draft of history all president s have a large obligation to inform, warn, protect, to define goals and the True National interest it should be a truthtelling response to the world, especially in crisis. Trump has instead enshrined personal impulse as a governing principle of his presidency. When his performance a president is taken in its entirety, i can only reach one conclusion trump is the wrong man for the job. Joining us now is bob woodward, a twotime winner of the Pulitzer Prize, an associate editor at the Washington Post where hes worked since 1971 and the author of the now number one selling book rage. Bob, thank you very much for joining us tonight we really appreciate it. Thank you thank you. Bob, is this the most important book you have written . You know, you never know. I am of the bradley school, ben bradley, the editor of the Washington Post during watergate. And the genius who understood you do your job, you put it out. Sometimes it will have impact. Sometimes its important sometimes its not. As he always said, nose down, ass up moving slowly ahead. And i think its a great doctrine for journalists i just kind of do the reporting as best i can and the writing. I had my wife elsa, she edited it six times head of simon and shuster, john carp went through it meticulously also. And, so, these are team efforts, as you know. Just like on your show there are some things that you write here that i have never read in any of your previous books. I have read all the books about the president s there are lines in here you have written, lines like i hung up feeling distressed i was worried for the country. I felt weariness there is an emotional current going through this book, bob, that is your emotional current that i have never seen in your work before. Well, if you have the opportunity i did to talk to trump all this time, he would call at random i could call him i had a number he would pick up or he would call me back and i, from years of reporting, knew people from the white house, cia, pentagon, state department and so i could as much as an outsider, i believe, get a window into Donald Trumps presidency and Donald Trumps mind and you cant hear all of this and see it as we have released some of the audiotapes, you can hear him just the microphone is a microscope, as i say. It really peers into the soul. And you see whats going on, and you see the denial and the absence of responsibility, i believe, and concluded the president has the job of protecting the country as he once told me the president has the job of telling the truth to the people of this country and he failed miserably. So how do you not convey your emotions when you are feeling them in the end, when i said trump is in my estimation, my conclusion the wrong man for the job, i was typing along the epilogue an just came out. And i checked with elsa my wife, my assistant, evelyn duffy, steve riley, with john carp the editor and head of simon and shuster and bob barnett, my lawyer, agent, the soul of Washington Book writing, quite frankly, and they all said, yes, you have to say that why . Because its true. And the whole issue in the Trump Presidency is, whats true how do you not write the truth as you see it . Now some people will agree some people will not agree and, you know, bradley rule, thats fine. You go on. And so i it was a conclusion based on youve clearly read through the book, lawrence, on overwhelming evidence. I mean, it just piles up time and time again that we have somebody, the head of our country who does not know what the job is, operates on impulse, has no sense of order, no sense of reason. He will just, as mattis, the secretary of defense said, you know, he, mattis, ran the defense department, got virtually no guidance from President Trump and had to do it on his own and the tweets would come in, which would be orders that there had been no consultation on. I mean, its a madness and sickness and organizational sickness so how do i step away from that . A dear friend of mine, Christian Williams from california who is a sailing companion, somebody i have known he was the arts editor at the Washington Post called me and said, of course you had to reach this conclusion. And he made the point, think of all the republicans in this country, in the senate, in the house who failed to reach the obvious conclusion given the evidence at hand and i thought and he said he would be on the phone screaming at me if i had not reached that conclusion so there it is its there is a discussion of it thats fine. Bob, some night id love you to come on to just discuss how ben bradley would i lost contact here. I think lets see. Bob, i dont know if you can still hear me. Can you hear me here from the studio i dont think we have sound for bob woodward right now what do we know . All right. Im going to show President Trump is talking about bob woodward today, so lets take a look at that and well get Bob Woodwards response after we hear what President Trump had to say about bob woodward today. You told bob woodward the problem with a vaccine is a vaccine will take 13 to 14 months once you have it because you have to test a vaccine so do you want to clarify . No. But that was a long time ago when i said that we werent set up at that time how many months ago . When was the statement made . Its sort of obsolete. By the way, i read the book last night very rapidly because it was very boring. I said a lot of really good things people like to turn it around. But i said really good things in that book. And as an example, he doesnt cover i told him what were doing in the middle east and were doing it in an entirely different way, and thats not covered in his book. The whole thing isnt covered in his book. Bob, what is your reaction to that well, this is the call of one month ago when President Trump called me unexpectedly the book was printed and done and out, and i told him that and he said, well, can you get the agreement between israel and uae in the book, which is an important development. But hes complaining that it wasnt covered in the book but the book is done there is no possibility of getting it in. And in that call i explained to him it was going to be a tough book i would make some judgments, which he would not like. We turned to the issue of the virus. And he said, and i think you have the audio of it, and the tone is so important where he said, nothing more could have been done. Nothing more could have been done from my reporting from whats known in public, from what all kinds of people have said, its very evident that all kinds of things could have been done, but he still is clinging to that im sorry, fantasy that nothing more could have been done. And, bob, he sounds kind of mournful and defeated in that conversation with you when hes saying that. It sounds like hes throwing it out there and, yet, knows that he doesnt really have credibility in saying it. Well, i dont know. I cant get in his head. I can explain what he said and what his decisions are but in the end when i told him this very directly, i felt i had a responsibility to do that, he said almost playfully, well, it looks like i didnt get you on this book. Ill get you on the next book. Always the optimist, i guess i guess were going to squeeze in a quick break here bob woodward is going to stay with us for the full hour. And when we come back, how does bob woodward do it how does he find out who said what in all of those meetings in the white house . Thats next. Start with americas most awarded network. Im on my phone 24 7. Then for the first time ever, include disney , hulu and espn . Were a big soccer family. Handmaids tale. I love frozen. Then give families plans to mix and match, so you only pay for what you need. And offer it at a price built for everyone. Plus, get the Samsung Galaxy s20 5g uw on us when you buy any note20 5g. And 300 when you switch. The network more people rely on gives you more. Hi susan honey . Yeah . I respect that. But that cough looks pretty bad. Try this new robitussin honey severe. The real honey you love. Plus, the powerful cough relief you need. Mind if i root through your trash . New robitussin honey severe. Strong relief for your severe symptoms. I wondered. Could another come around the corner . Or could it play out differently . I wanted to help protect myself. My doctor recommended eliquis. Eliquis is proven to treat and help prevent another dvt or pe blood clot. Almost 98 percent of patients on eliquis didnt experience another. And eliquis has significantly less major bleeding than the standard treatment. Eliquis is fdaapproved and has both. Dont stop eliquis unless your doctor tells you to. Eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. Dont take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. If you had a spinal injection while on eliquis call your doctor right away if you have tingling, numbness, or muscle weakness. While taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer than usual for bleeding to stop. Seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. Eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. Tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. Whats around the corner could be your moment. Ask your doctor about eliquis. Comes out, people always ask, how does he do it . How does he find out what was said in the oval office, the cabinet room, the situation room, air force one. Here is how he does it the agenda, a study of a new president trying to move a heavy legislative agenda through congress, most of which had to come through the Senate Finance committee where i was the chief of staff working with Daniel Patrick moynihan after our handshake i expected to spend 20 minutes or so in small talk while i decided how much i was willing to tell the most famous reporter in washington but he sat down, flipped open his notebook and this was his first question a question that i can never forget he said, you were in the meeting with the president in the cabinet room on may 7th and everyone said you were taking notes. Can i have your notes . And at that moment two things happened i realized i was in way over my head and my respect for bob woodward went through the roof before ever speaking to me, bob woodward knew more about me than any other reporter, including some i had been dealing with for years. So thats part of how he does it homework on top of homework on top of homework. The second time i talked to bob woodward for that book, i knew i was going to have to prepare for it like i was presenting a case to the Supreme Court bob woodward is back with us bob, as i was reading your interviews with donald trump, i had to wonder yes, i remember that, lawrence that was, what, 27 years ago a while ago a while ago. It was it was really stunning, and it was one of those moments where i went, oh, boy. Lets not leave out the headline may i say this go ahead. You helped me you gave me lots of detail i was able to talk to senator moynihan a number of hands extensively and get his input. And as you know, senator moynihan was a core truth teller and so he was extremely helpful also is that fair to say . Yes, it is. But one of the keys to it is by the time you were talking to me and this is true for many interview subjects, including many people in this book, im sure, you had already talked to a number of people in that room. So the person who is being interviews knows, okay, woodward knows already most of what went on in that room. I have to play this pretty straight because he already knows whats there but it made me wonder as i was watching i say watching your conversations with donald trump because they leap off the page i can see both of you in these conversations even though theyre in print was he the least prepared person you have ever interviewed for a book well, he was willing to open up, and he subjected himself to an interrogation as you have read, i would say things like, well, the virus is a big deal he said, you think thats the main thing and he mentioned the economy and i said but the two were related. And he said a little bit and i think in dismay and wonder said, a little bit and he said, oh, no, yeah. Theyre definitely related here. So it was one of the most interesting reporting excursions of my life because it was all in ten months i was able to check with other people i had the luxury of time and as i have said to steven ginsburg, who is the National Editor of the post who i kind of report to that whats in the book dove tails with the coverage in the post of trump. And its the same person, their coverage and my coverage and you realize we are getting never perfect, never the complete story as somebody once told me you never get the engineers drawing. You never have all the tape recordings and the notes and so forth. But its about as close as you can get to whats going on now, i want to say i hear an echo in the phone here that they have hooked me up to you i dont know that thats going through the air or not but somebody else is talking. It is not a problem on television well try to get it fixed on the commercial break but it is not a problem on tv. Okay, good. Let me read for the audience an extraordinary conversation that you captured for this book. And this is a part of a book that people have not been talking about because there is so much important stuff in this book i dont think anyone can cover it all and we wont cover it all tonight. This is the Mueller Investigation. And this is as far as we know among the very first things william barr ever said to anyone after reading the Mueller Report and this is a phone call the attorney general calls the chairman of the Senate JudiciaryCommittee Lindsey Graham who has jurisdiction over the attorney generals Justice Department, so there is a reasonable connection there between these two positions. He calls him to tell him what he has found in the Mueller Report. And this is before William Barrs letter about the report goes out this is the first thing he says privately. Hes on the phone with Lindsey Graham and its this you are not going to believe this, barr said. What after two fing years he says, well, i dont know you decide. What do you mean, graham asked well, there is no collusion, barr said. And that was barrs quick telephone summary of the massive Mueller Report and it turned out to be basically true there is lots of discussion and so forth mueller found no collusion and trump of course has overstated the exoneration. But as you know that there was no there were no other indictments. There was no other action from the Mueller Report and so it kind of landed with great expectation and left in a whimper. Do you think thats do you agree with that . You are referring to the Mueller Report as the rosenstein report in here because you make it very clear Rod Rosenstein was in complete control of this investigation from beginning to end. He was. He was the Deputy Attorney general because the attorney general was recused. He had this power, and its extraordinary. He supervises the Mueller Investigation much like he supervises other u. S. Attorneys in the country traditionally the deputy oversees the fbi and also he had the relationship, rosenstein did, with the trump white house. So hes got the ball, and i go through it not in great detail, but he kept a hammer lock on the investigation and himself personally concluded that there was no criminal obstruction of justice by President Trump. And, bob, in your reporting it seems he concluded that before the Mueller Report was completed he seems to have told an associate that he kind of knew all along that there wouldnt be something that looked like an indictable offense. Yes, thats correct because he had rosenstein had one of his deputies go speak with mueller and his muellers staff every week so it was a total and one of the congressman in one of the hearings said, we know, rosenstein, you were in charge and rosenstein was in charge and i quote from the letter of resignation that rosenstein sent to trump, and its almost like one of those kim jongun letters from trump where he says, hey, you know, look, we had a great relationship i appreciate your humor. Im not too sure anybody else has written a Resignation Letter to the president and praised him for his humor, but rosenstein makes it clear that hes part of the trump team, part of the republican team. And you also report that the mueller investigators and mueller himself were worried that if they went too far they could be fired one of the reasons they did not subpoena donald trump in the end was they were afraid that muelle could get fired for that were going to squeeze in a quick break right here bob woodward is going to stay with us. We will be right back. And this book is a portrait of alienation of traditional republicans from trump republicans and that is captured in the deterioration of the relationship between two old friends from indiana, dan coats and mike pence driver i dont know what happened. burke this . Eh, Nothing Happened. driver Nothing Happened . burke Nothing Happened. driver sure looks like something happened. burke well, youve been with farmers for three years with zero auto claims. driver yeah . burke so you earned your policy perk accident forgiveness. Now instead of this being something, it s driver its nothing burke get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks. They should really turn this ride off. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum so to breathe better, i started oncedaily anoro. Copd tries to say, go this way. I say, ill go my own way, with anoro. Oncedaily anoro contains two medicines called bronchodilators that Work Together to significantly improve lung function all day and all night. Do not use anoro if you have asthma. Anoro wont replace rescue inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than once a day. Tell your doctor if you have a heart condition, high blood pressure, glaucoma. Prostate, bladder or urinary problems. These may worsen with anoro. Call your doctor if you have worsened breathing, chest pain. Mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes or eye pain, while taking anoro. The most common side effects are sore throat, diarrhea, and pain in the arms and legs. Ask your doctor about oncedaily anoro to start treating your copd. Were here for you during this challenging timeand always. Find support at anoro. Com. So when it comes to screening for colon cancer, dont wait. Because when caught early, its more treatable. Im cologuard. Im noninvasive and detect altered dna in your stool to find 92 of colon cancers even in early stages. Tell me more. Its for people 45 plus at average risk for colon cancer, not high risk. False positive and negative results may occur. Ask your prescriber if cologuard is right for you. Im on it. Thats a step in the right direction. This thing is a killer it gets you if youre the wrong person, you dont have a chance. Yes, yes, exactly. So this rips you apart. This is a scourge and its the plague. That is not the way the president talked to the American Public thats the way he talked to bob woodward as far as we know i want to read dr. Faucis review of the president. The president is on a separate channel. Fauci told other trumps leadership was rudderless fauci marvelled at trump hopscotch from one thing to another, his Attention Span is like a minus number, he said privately. Trump seemed interested in one outcome. His sole purpose is to get reelected, fauci told an associate. Thats from someone who isnt even political that is from someone who is supposed to be in there as a technical expert who in another white house probably wouldnt even be able to be in a position to observe what a president is doing or thinking about to get reelected yes i think thats true. And its to trumps credit that that would have some consultation on that but as fauci said, when you are talking to somebody and theyre hopscotching all around and they have a minus Attention Span, which is notorious with trump, it is not particularly useful. And its one of the sadnesses in all of this. I have to return to that, that there is a nondecisionmaking process. There is there is no order. There is no, hey, lets sit around the table and talk about things there is trumps tweets and his impulses and the idea that the United States is run in this way. And as you see, trump just recently seesawing back and forth. He kept telling me he played down the virus and just, i guess, the other night he said, well, he upplayed it, whatever that means. Thats the new word. And suppose you are a person who wants to know whats going on in the country and you are not particularly political you are looking at this and you are saying, how do i make sense out of this . How do i protect my family how do we make family decisions about travel, about schooling, about medical care and there is no guidance from the president of the United States its my view from doing all this work on president s that the president has that sacred trust, the person needs to be everyone, democrats, republicans, people who love trump, people who dont like trump need to be able to look at him and get some guidance and it comes out muddled in the middle of a pandemic that he knew about, and the key scene is that january 28th meeting in the oval office when his National Security adviser robert obrian, after the intelligence briefing of the intelligence briefer was saying, well, weve got this problem in china were monitoring it. And obrian, to his credit, stepped up and said, mr. President , the virus is going to be the biggest threat, the biggest National Security threat to your presidency and trumps head kind of popped up and the deputy laid out all of these details and he had been a reporter for the wall street journal and china you know that kind of ground truth the reporter can get and he was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize for the wall street journal and he covered the 2003 sars epidemic and knew that the chinese lied, and he built up contacts in china and hong kong in the medical community and he consulted with them in a fourday period in january. He spoke mandarin. He could read chinese social media about whats going on behind the scenes. And he came in after obrian and said, mr. President , thats exactly right and what we are facing is much like the 1918 spanish flu pandemic that killed 675,000 people in our country. The president asked some questions. He clearly got the message and, so, ten days later, trump tells me all about this. It took me until may to find out about the key january 28th meeting. But thats where i begin the book thats where the awareness of you listen to it, and i look through my reporting and i had one of my assistants who said were going to what we have written here about this were going to reverse engineer. And she went back and read all the interviews of everyone about this and said, yes, this is exactly what we got from witnesses and participants and the record you know, this is as if somebody had called Franklin Roosevelt or his National Security team and said, you know, the japanese are going to bomb pearl harbor in three days and Franklin Roosevelt said, well, you know, we dont want to tell people because that will create panic and the president failed in that core response im sorry, lawrence, for getting emotional about this, but i feel this way. And i feel the evidence is overwhelming and people can accept it or reject it. But this is what i found and this is the nature of the presidency we are living in. And its frightening quite frankly. Yeah. Bob, i have never seen you get emotional in the work that you have done before, and, so, i completely understand where those feelings come from every reader of the book is going to completely understand it those emotions are on the pages of this book i want to talk about dan coats for a moment before we go to a break because dan coats, republican senator from indiana, good friend of mike pence, the republican governor of indiana mike pence gets elected Vice President and says do you want a job. He says, no, i do not want a job. He gets talked into being the director of National Intelligence and then the relationship between these two indiana friends begins to fray over time and mike pence had this repeated phrase that he would say to dan coats when things were getting wild and out of control with donald trump he would just quietly say to him, stay the course stay the course. And dan coats, we watched, trying to stay the course for as long as he possibly can. And he finally gives up and writes his Resignation Letter to the president. I want to read this passage about dan coats, former republican senator, explaining the current condition for 16 years in the senate, lawrence. Uhhuh. Somebody who an evangelical christian. He and his wife marsha went to Wheaten College in illinois. I was raised in that town. I know the evangelical community and how powerful it is as you know Vice President pence is evangelical also. And this is this is where they met in indiana. I mean, they were as close as two political people can be. And as director of National Intelligence, i think people get lost in the jargon and the hierarchy, but hes the number one Intelligence Officer he oversees the cia and everything. James mattis says to him at some point in their grief about this situation what would make a difference and the next line is, if the senate stood up, coats said. He knew the senate intimately, especially the republicans he had served 16 years and he kept in touch with half a dozen republican senators who were friends. None were bailing on trump not out of conviction, but for political survival the senate is not going to stand up bob, are you as surprised as i am, having watched washington adds long as you have, having watched the Republican Party as long as you have and the republicans in the senate at the way they have treated the Trump Presidency, including violating many of the positions they all held before policy positions they held before donald trump took the presidency . Well, as you know, you can go back channel to some of these senators, and they know whats going on coats says, you know, they get it they understand. But political survival is the key here and i quote jared kushner, the president s soninlaw who is an aide in the white house an effectively the white house chief of staff for practical purposes and kushner says that trump has executed, quote, a hostile takeover of the Republican Party. And i think thats true. See, we need to im sorry i know youve got to get to a break, but weve got to ge to go ahead we will get to a commercial break, but tell us what you want to talk about when we come back. Okay. Because i think weve got to there is much discussion in the media about trump breaks norms, and he doesnt operate by the old play book, and i have discussed this with trump. Of course he doesnt he was elected to break norms. And the people, his supports, love it. They say, oh, trump doesnt he shows no decorum and Trump Supporters love that he shows no decorum. And we in the media need to spend more time understanding the trump voter, and there has been a lot of talk in the media about, oh, there is one way to look at trump. And there are many ways to look at trump and trump voters need to be understood i know lots of them open, secret trump supports, financial advisers, businessmen, Law Enforcement people, military people and im sorry to dwell on this, but i think its its something we got to get our arms around and i saw trump a couple of days ago at one of his rallies and he kind of turned away. And he said, you know im with you. And there were these cheers. And he has tapped into this disgust, quite frankly, with you and me and the media elite and the financial elite and so forth, and we need to understand and, you know, where is this coming from . These are many many of these people are very decent people, sometimes people in the media say, well, no, a decent person has to look at it this way thats not true. We understanding the trump voter is absolutely essential here and that we have to not pander to the trump voter or to the biden voter or anybody we shouldnt be in the business of pandering, but as i said to trump at one point, you know, my job is to understand people, just like i think the president s job is to understand people we got to really listen and weve got to say, okay, you can look at this situation very differently. If somebody came up to me, as people have, and said i dont like you and i dont like your book and im going to support trump forever, my reaction is not, how can you my reaction is tell me what you think. Whats the basis of it whats going on here what happened in america and i talk to trump about this barbara tuckmans great book the guns of august and causes of world war i and she writes how years before world war i started, there was a funeral of one of the english kings, and she said all the nine kings came to the funeral, and she said in the old order was dying in a blazing in the blazing sun. In 19 in 2016, the old order died donald trump actually caught it and understood that for one reason or another the Democratic Party didnt understand it the Republican Party didnt understand it. I sat in the oval Office Asking trump about this he didnt know about barbara tuchmans book, but he could get the concept the old order is dying and said yeah, its in the book you know, yeah, the old order is dying and we need to figure that out. Its a journalistic journey that we need to make. Sorry for taking so much time. Well take a quick break and well be right back with bob woodward but today theres a combination of two immunotherapies you can take first. One that could mean. A chance to live longer. Opdivo plus yervoy is for adults newly diagnosed with nonsmall cell lung cancer that has spread and that tests positive for pdl1 and does not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene. Its the first and only approved chemofree combination of two immunotherapies that works together in different ways to harness the power of the immune system. Opdivo plus yervoy equals a chance for more days. More nights. More beautiful weekends. More ugly sweaters. More big hugs. More small outings. Opdivo and yervoy can cause your immune system to attack normal organs and tissues in your body and affect how they work. This may happen during or after treatment has ended and can become serious and lead to death. Some of these problems may happen more often when opdivo is used with yervoy. 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Their stories live on at ancestry. groans hmph. food grunting menacingly when the food you love doesnt love you back, stay smooth and fight heartburn fast with tums smoothies. Tum tumtum tum tums on page 81 of Bob Woodwards book rage. Former defense secretary james mattis speaks to some of what bob woodward was just telling us he says this degradation of the american experiment is real. This is tangible truth is no longer governing the white house statements nobody believes even the people who believe in him somehow believe in him without believing what he says and that is a very important point to consider when you think about the unbelievable things that donald trump says and his followers accept bob woodward is back with us for our final few minutes of discussion tonight bob, having read all your books about the presidency, youve been now for five decades going into the white house and coming out with a book telling us everything we didnt know about that white house when i finished this book, i think i found what youve been looking for all these years and im not even sure youre conscious of it. In the disappointment. Oh, thank you. In the disappointment and the sadness of this book and in the ending of this book, i think what i found is that bob woodward has been going into that white house hoping, hoping to find someone in the oval office that he could really admire and i say that because i read the last page of your book already. The second last page of your book which leads up to that. Has a president that you apparently do admire that you never got to be in the oval office with and thats Franklin Delano roosevelt, and you quote him at length at the end of the book saying after pearl harbor was attacked, saying we must share together the bad news and the good news, the defeats and the victories, the changing fortunes of war so far the news has been all bad. We have suffered serious set backs. It will only be a long war but a not only a long war but a hard war were all in it all the way, every single man, woman and child is a partner in the most tremendous undertaking of our American History your government has unmistakable confidence in your ability to hear the worst without flinching or losing heart. And bob, i think you go into that white house hoping to find that person behind the desk in the oval office. Well, you know, actually, just to be factual, my wife elsa who really edited this book is the force behind the book. Because she lived this with me because trump would call and she would listen in and say youre shouting at the president. You shouldnt shout at the president. And we in our endless dinner and lunch conversations, she kept asking the question what should have trump done . Whats the remedy . Is a reasonable level of expectation . And she went back to roosevelts fireside chats, whic youre quoting from two days after pearl harbor and roosevelt at that point truly understood the country he led, and he realized and this is the greatness, one of the greatnesses of Franklin Roosevelt and he had his weaknesses he had one of the strengths, one of the greatnesses was he understood and he could say i know youre not youre going to get all of this bad news and its only bad news after pearl harbor, and you will not lose heart. Trumps response when i asked him why are you approaching the virus this way he said well, i always play it down i always play it down because i dont want to create a panic now, if trump had the understanding of the country he leads, he would realize our core strength and our core strength is if we get the truth, then we will rally around the president. This has happened time and time again and it happened after the 9 11 terrorist attacks. Bob, were going to have leave it there this is one of those nights i wish i had two hours but Brian Williams has shown up for work again tonight and hes going to want to get in on this bob woodward im sorry. Bob, thank you very much for joining us tonight we appreciate it. Thank you that is tonights last word. The 11th hour with Brian Williams starts right now. And good evening once again day 1336 of the Trump Administration leaving 48 days now until the president ial election, and the once simmering tension between donald trump and his own government scientists over the management of this pandemic is out in the open