Transcripts For MSNBCW The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell 20200702

President s daily brief to be the goal standard. It requires clearing so many thresholds of credibility and of course the written version of the president s daily brief reportedly had the reports about russia paying to have american soldiers killed in afghanistan. And, yet, the white house story about this is, no, no, no, it was never credible enough to bother donald trump with this, as if donald trump has some kind of higher level of credibility that he demands to hear about. Right. The pdb is just yeah, thats way lower than the level of information he usually takes in from fox and friends. Yes. And so he needs it to be a much higher level before hell spend any time with it. Yeah, especially when you look back at how he spent his day on february 27th, the day that he apparently was too busy to read that briefing. Its unnerving given what the subject matter was. Meeting with a series of foolish people who have nothing to do with the american government. Rachel, to learn that fact tonight and the breaking news reporting from the New York Times about the price, there was a going price, according to these reports of 100,000 for killing an american soldier in afghanistan. They name the name of the man who was where they found 500,000 after he fled his home in afghanistan. All of this is stuff we didnt know 24 hours ago. As we said 24 hours ago, we expected this, and we can expect tomorrow night 24 hours from now the New York Times in kabul and here will have more for us that the white house will try to pretend, as Donald Trumps word for it is now, hoax. Hes using the word hoax. And well get more specifity about what the all gags were and how many countries and individuals knew about it and how actionable it was and what actions they took and who they warned and how everybody reacted to it as if it was of the utmost seriousness. And all the while, the white house will have to continue to try to contend that it wasnt that serious or that even if it was this serious the president could somehow be excused from ever doing anything about it before now or even now. I mean, for the Washington Post to be reporting tonight that the president sees no need to respond, that even if its true that putin is paying 100,000 cash prize for u. S. Corpse brought to his doorstep that the president doesnt think that there is anything wrong with that, nothing that he needs to bring up with russia. I mean, eventually something is going to break here. There are families of americans who have been killed in afghanistan, including an incident that, according to the Washington Post, that intelligence agencies in this country believe were brought about because of that bounty program. But the idea that the president s lack of action to either protect those soldiers or to do anything about who killed them and why, its just its unsustainable. It cannot stand. It cannot last. It will break. It is just a sickening concept and a sickening story to be reporting. Yeah. Thank you, rachel. Thanks, lawrence. Thank you. Well, as i said, we now have that price. In the breaking news reporting of the night, the New York Times has just revealed this evening, quote, afghan officials said prizes of as much as 100,000 per killed soldier were offered for american and coalition targets. That is in the latest installment of reporting by the New York Times about american intelligence reports indicating that a Russian Military Intelligence Unit has been paying taliban troops. They deliver a new name as a key player in this story. Rahmatullah azizi stands as a central piece of the puzzle. As investigators closed in on mr. Azizi in afghanistan, they carried out sweeping raids to arrest dozens of his relatives and associates about six months ago, but discovered that mr. Azizi had sneaked out of afghanistan and was likely back in russia. What they did find in one of his homes in kabul was a half a Million Dollars in cash. Donald trump has a one word answer to all of these damning reports about russia paying a bounty for killing american soldiers, and it is his favorite word, hoax. Donald trump told a fox reporter, who is paid by Rupert Murdoch to ask his friend donald trump on challenging questions, quote, i think its a hoax. I think its a hoax by the newspapers and the democrats. Thats what donald trump said. Senator Kamala Harris attended a Senate Intelligence Committee Briefing on the matter today and Nicole Wallace asked her, after that briefing, if there is any reason to think the New York Times and nbc news reporting on this story amounts to a hoax. Did you hear anything that made you doubt what is in the public arena about the spirit of this story . Let me just say this. You have mentioned and talk about the american Intelligence Community. I serve on the Senate Intelligence committee where i over the course of the last three plus years have been in regular receipt of information from our Intelligence Community about threats to our nations security and hot spots around the world, and i will tell you based on my experience with the american Intelligence Community, you cannot find a group of people that work harder and take more seriously their profession and the importance of them being precise and accurate and exercising the Due Diligence that is necessary for us as decision makers, as policymakers and for the president of the United States to make the right decisions that are in the best interest of Americas National security and in the best interest of American Service members serving around the world to protect our country and to protect our values. Nicole wallace also asked Speaker Nancy Pelosi if she thinks that intelligence reports about russia paying to kill american troops are a hoax. What the fact say is very clear. The president is intellectually unprepared, personally unqualified and ethically unfit to serve as president of the United States. And now he has undermined any credibility he may have had as commander in chief if he could call a possible assault on our troops, our men and women in uniform, by the russians a hoax without wanting to read about it, learn more about it and make a really informed judgment about it. Donald trump has used that same word hoax when discussing the coronavirus back when he was trying to pretend that the coronavirus would just disappear in america. And once again today he is trying to pretend that. Once again today donald trump said that the coronavirus would disappear. His exact words today were, quote, i think were going to be very good with the coronavirus. I think that all that at some point thats going to sort of just disappear, i hope. That provoked our first guest tonight to assemble a video of Donald Trumps hopes and dreams about the coronavirus over the last five months. Looks like by april, you know, in theory when it gets a little warmer, it goes away. Hope thats true. It will disappear. You have to be calm. It will go away. Its going to go away. This is going to go away. And i think were going to be very good with the coronavirus. I think that at some point thats going to sort of just disappear, i hope. You still believe so . Disappear . I do. I do. Yeah, sure. That was donald trump today saying its going to just sort of disappear, i hope. Saying that on the day that this country has broken its record once again for the highest number of Coronavirus Infections reported in a single day. We broke 50,000 a day for the first time, the official count as of this hour tonight of reported Coronavirus Infections just today is 50,227. That brings the total number of coronavirus cases reported in the United States to 2,687,083 confirmed cases. And as of tonight, this country has suffered 129,046 deaths from coronavirus. Leading off our discussion tonight, senior director of progressive programming and an msnbc National Affairs analyst. He is executive editor of the recount. And, john, it was the recount for which you assembled that video of Donald Trumps hopes and dreams about the coronavirus where he, once again, said today he thinks its just going to disappear. Right, lawrence. And you think about the most incredible part of that video, i find, is that fox News Reporter who you pointed out what his job is there. He is incredulous when trump says this thing about how he hopes it will disappear. He says, really . And trumps answer to that is, yeah, sure. This kind of like casual flippant, ridiculous, appalling, gr grotesque casualness about not just the absurdity of the statement but about the entire thing that we laid out in that chronology in that video. Donald trump has been living in never never land for months now and despite all those grim statistics you laid out, he still lives in the never never land and the cost is borne politically by him but the human toll is borne by the american people. There is a linkage between these two stories, the coronavirus where donald trump says it will just fade away and the situation of russia offering 100,000 to kill american soldiers in afghanistan. And the linkages, of course, Donald Trumps just ignoring of these things, his refusal to deal with these things which allowed joe biden to tweak tonight a very, very important statement about how he will conduct himself as president , and that statement is, ill read my Daily Briefings. That constitutes a declaration of intent about how he will handle the presidency, that sentence alone, that is completely different from the way donald trump goes about this work. Yes. But it is also a pretty low bar for the president of the United States. Yeah. And thats where donald trump has brought us, to this place where essentially somebody who is in a job as important as commander in chief is saying, well, ill read the documents that experts put in front of me that are explaining the threats to the american public. Now, donald trump is not just in any other job. Hes always play acted the roles hes had throughout his career. First it was successful businessman when he was not that and now its president. But the problem is is that, you know, the people are being impacted and harmed by his policies and covid makes it more universal in its impact because everybody is quarantined and dealing with the impact of all of the repercussions dealing with the virus. And donald trump does not have the requisite skills for the job that he is tasked with doing, and that is putting us all in danger. But thats always been the case since the beginning of this administration. Its just that the pandemic made the impact on the american people, i think, more universal and obviously more damaging. And, john highland, we have a poll rating coming out. Donald trumps disapprove is at 59 . His approve is at 39 . Thats as of june 29th. And when i look at those numbers, the thing i always ask myself is what can donald trump do to change those numbers . What will donald trump do to change those numbers . And i dont see anything that hes capable of doing that will change those numbers because to change those numbers he really has to fight the coronavirus in a way that people believe is meaningful. That would be step one. Well, yes, it would. And, look, there is a couple of elements to this, lawrence. Beyond the disapproval approval numbers you are citing, we have this numbers that are stunning. 71 of the country is angry. 66 of the country is fearful. 87 of the country is dissatisfied with where the country is going. And 12 is satisfied with the direction of the country right now. That is a right track wrong track of epic, historic badness for donald trump. And your question is right on point. The reason that those numbers are so bad is that the country is in a terrible place, and nothing donald trump is doing is making anybody confident that its going to be in a better place any time soon. Yes, there is a lot of things that in the never never land that trump lives in when he says he hopes the virus go away, in that world there is a lot of things donald trump might do to change that tomorrow. Tomorrow he could lay out a second term agenda, start taking the virus seriously. All kinds of stuff. We could make a long list. But as much fantasy talk as his talk about the virus. He is who he is and he is in fact doubling down on all the political strategies and tactics that are making him increasingly unpopular even with Senior Citizens and evangelicals. He is driving himself further and further into the dirt every single day. And the trump box that is constructed by donald trump for donald trump that he cannot get out of has him trapped on these two main stories were talking about tonight. Hes not tomorrow going to find a new way of talking about and dealing with the coronavirus that gives people any confidence in him. And hes not going to find a new way to talk about russia paying 100,000 to kill american soldiers and him doing nothing about it. He will not find a new way to discuss either one of those things. No, he wont. And i think one of the things thats important to point out is that their best defense is that hes so bad at his job that he didnt bother to read the most important document that president s are responsible for viewing every single day. And that is something i think a message that joe biden can take in the alternative to the positive message, i will read my briefings. Well, the flip side of that is that donald trump wont even do the basics that are required from the job of president. He took an oath. Hes not volunteering to be president. He took an oath to the constitution, and he is failing at his job every single moment. And our lives are at stake every single day as he flails around and tries to pretend to be president. And, frankly, i think that we need to be very serious not just through november but through january because until we officially have a new president sworn in, we are still very much going to be dealing with the consequences of Donald Trumps incompetence. Thank you for leading off our discussion tonight. John, thank you for joining us. And, john, thank you to the recount for assembling that video for us. Thank you. Youre welcome, lawrence. Good to see you. Thank you. And when we come back, house Intelligence Committee member Eric Swalwell will join us with his reaction to russia offering 100,000 to kill american soldiers in afghanistan. And later in this hour, at the end of this hour, youre going to meet the author of the most extraordinary piece i have read about Confederate Monuments since that subject has been reactivated among us. I didnt think i had anything more to learn about them because ive always been in favor of taking them done and not celebrating people who committed treason against this country to preserve slavery. If you have read the op ed piece in sundays New York Times by Caroline Randal Williams, you will want to hear her discuss that tonight. The title of that piece was you want a Confederate Monument . My body is a confederate monume monument. The black people i come from were owned and raped by the white people i come from who dare to tell me to celebrate them. You must read this piece. Before we get to this at the end of the hour, you will hear from Caroline Randal Williams, the brilliant author of this piece at the end of the hour. Pain happens. Aleve it. Aleve is proven stronger and longer on pain than tylenol. When pain happens, aleve it. All day strong. vo at whether on the track,that exhor the everyday drive. Ty, today, that philosophy extends to how we connect with you. We call it, audi at your door. Whether a remote test drive, shopping, tradein, or even service pickup, audi at your door can do this and more at participating dealers. The premium audi dealership experience, on your terms. Audi at your door. The president doesnt read. That is both a condemning accusation against the president and a defense of the president that is being used by the white house staff. The white house staff is using that as his defense for claiming not to know anything about intelligence reports that were in his written daily brief about the russian government paying to have american soldiers killed in afghanistan. The ap reported earlier this week that john bolton verbally told donald trump about those intelligence reports according to sources close to john bolton, but john bolton himself has refused to confirm that because any of the conversations he had about that with the president , he says, are classified. Tomorrow cia director gina has k kell who is often in the room when the president has his brief will be meeting with house members who will surely ask her if she told the president about the intelligence on the russian payments to kill american soldiers. Last night on this program, senator tammy duckworth, an Army Black Hawk helicopter pilot who lost both of her legs in combat in iraq said this. Look, lawrence, several things will happen here. He was given the briefing and didnt read it. Youre not doing your job. Number two, he was briefed and he forgot or he chose not to do something and he chose to put russias interests above the wellbeing of troops. Or, three, the people around him know that hes so incompetent that theyre not even going to brief him about it. At which point you need to fire not just donald trump but the folks that should be bringing these intelligence reports in the first place. Joining us now someone who has had an intelligence briefing on this matter, representative Eric Swalwell, a democrat from california, a member house of the house Intelligence Committee and the author of the book endgame. And congressman thrks is so reminiscent of what the impeachment was about, the president refusing to take an action that would in any way bother russia, working with russias allies in ukraine. The people on the russian supporting side of activities in ukraine he was dealing with. The situation here is, first of all, lets deal with the question that the president is labeling a hoax, the question of what we should be making of this reporting from the New York Times and from nbc news. Do you, in your reading of this reporting at this stage, knowing what you know, find that reporting to be exaggerated and to be worthy of the label of hoax . People should be very concerned by the allegations. I have reviewed many of the materials around this allegation. Im very concerned. Its not a hoax. And to go back to impeachment briefly, the president validates every day why he should have been impeached for putting his personal priorities over other countries. But, lawrence, when you think about what goes into a president ial Daily Briefing and all over the world and every division in our Intelligence Agency has told me the pride that members in the Community Take if something makes it to the briefing because, one, its taken a lot of research. Two, it has really been vetted. Three, it is highly relevant. This is not the back of a bar napkin that is slid in front of the president. This is the highest level of validation that would ever go before the highest official in our country. And also, lawrence, i have to say the other evidence that is concerning in public reporting is that not only was it included in the president s Daily Briefing, but Coalition Forces were moved and responded to this information and also that our allies were informed about it. Thats how concerned everyone else was. It doesnt seem like donald trump was too concerned about it. It seems like republicans are sharing many of your concerns. Republican senator pat toomey said they should come before the senate and answer questions from all members. If it is concluded that russia offered bounties to murder american soldiers, a Firm American response is required in short order, and thats exactly the kind of briefing the Trump Administration is trying to avoid. Theyre trying to limit it to the top ranking members of the house and Senate Intelligence committees and the leadership of the house and the senate. But there is pat toomey saying, no, you have got to tell us all about it. I support Speaker Pelosi who is calling for the whole house to be briefed on the intelligence. Also, lawrence, i represent, you know, a district that has thousands of military families. There is over 200,000 military families in california. To them, especially on july 4th weekend, patriotism is more than just waving a flag. It is standing up and defending our troops. So if President Trump doesnt care, we should care. But frankly and respectively to senate toomey, talk is cheap. Lets see what you actually do. Will you support sanctions . Will you defund the president s priorities if he doesnt act on russia . What will you do . Will you turn on him in the general election for a commander in chief that would stand up for our troops. I have heard a lot of talk. But other than senator romney, finding support has been very hard on the other side. Lets listen to the mother of Army Specialist isaiah nance who was killed in summer in afghanistan at the time this bounty system was in place according to public reporting. Lets listen to what she has to say. I would like to know if the white house was informed, if they did know about this. It seems as though they did. And, you know, why wasnt anything done or precautions taken . And why werent we notified . I just want to know what was done, if they knew . Did they do anything . What was done . And now like what is going to be done now that you know. The mom in me aches for everyone who has suffered. Congressman, do you believe that gold star mother will get answers to those questions . She will from people in Congress Like myself and many on the democratic side who have been seeking answers for so long. You know, i really thank her son and her family for their service. And my pledge to them is that, you know, well never be able to bring her son back, but the best way to honor those on the bottle field right now is to do all we can every day to keep them safe, to protect them and make them our utmost priority. That starts withholding this president accountable all the way to the end of his administration. Now, congressman, quickly before you go, i kind of muddled the linkage that i saw here between impeachment and this. What i meant was at the center of it all is vladimir putin. In impeachment, you had donald trump doing exactly what putin wanted him to do, which was withhold military aid to ukraine. Here you have trump doing exactly what putin wants him to do, which is absolutely nothing when intelligence reports are indicating russia is paying to kill american soldiers. Thats right, lawrence. For many people it may have been unknown or immeasurable as to what the cost was for Donald Trumps as allegations came out during the 2016 election as the president welcomed him and met with him in helsinki and destroyed the notes from the meeting. But now if these allegations are true, im concerned about the intelligence i have seen. We know the cost. It is precious american lives. Congressman Eric Swalwell, thank you very much for joining us tonight. My pleasure. And when we come back, the United States, as we said, has reported its highest single day total of Coronavirus Infections. We went over 50,000 new cases today. Thats next. To be honest. A little dust . It never bothered me. Until i found out what it actually was. Dust mite droppings . Ewww. Dead skin cells . Gross so now, i grab my swiffer sweeper and heavy duty dusters. Dusters has three layers that grab, trap and lock away gross dust. Gotcha and, for dust on my floors, i switch to my sweeper. The textured cloths grab, trap and lock dirt and hair. No matter where dust bunnies hide. No more heebie jeebies. Glad i stopped cleaning and started swiffering. This morning on the today show, an epidemiologist offered this assessment. It is looking like its becoming endemic to the United States meaning its going to be here until we get a vaccine. All the measures we would use to control a virus have not worked in the United States in particular. Thus, we have the numbers now to kind of make it, i wont say impossible to eradicate it using traditional means, but extremely difficult to do so. Then later today we learned that we suffered our highest number of Coronavirus Infections in a single day today. That is the first time we have had more than 50,000 infections in a single day. Yesterday in Senate Testimony dr. Anthony fauci said we could be on our way to 100,000 new infections a day in the United States. Coronavirus cases are rising in at least 38 states and puerto rico. Today texas broke the state record for new infections, the second day in a row, with 8,076 new cases. Texas also reported its highest number of coronavirus hospitalizations with 6,904. Today arizona hit a new state record with 4,878 new cases in a single day. Today arizona also reported its highest number of deaths from coronavirus in a single day, 88. Those are the grim statistics that greeted mike pence when he arrived in arizona today on what is clearly a Trump Campaign mission disguised as mike pence visiting arizona to check on how theyre doing with the coronavirus. The trump pence ticket won arizonas 11 electoral votes and is now running behind joe biden in arizona while the coronavirus rages in the state of arizona and donald trump delivered this message about the coronavirus to arizona and the rest of the country in a fox interview today. I think that at some point thats going to sort of just disappear, i hope. California set a new single day record for reported coronavirus cases yesterday with 8,610. Today californias governor ordered Indoor Dining to be stopped in 19 counties that are home to more than 70 of the states population, including los angeles county. But because the population of california is so huge, at 40 million, california ranks only 29th per 100,000 people in level of infection. New york city was planning to allow Indoor Dining to begin next week, but today new york city decided to delay the reopening of Indoor Dining indefinitely. Joining our discussion now, a physician and clinical professor with the school of Public Health at Columbia University and the direct director. As usual, you have an open forum here to tell america what we need to know tonight. What is your reaction to what youre seeing around the country . Well, lawrence, thanks. And i would love to be able to give some good news here and i speak with joseph quite a bit and also have listened carefully to what dr. Fauci is saying and i must tell you theyre both correct. Were not going to eliminate this disease or control it much more than we have until we have an effective vaccine, number one. Number two, dr. Fauci is completely correct. This is going to hit at least 100,000 cases a day, and it wont be long before that happens. But dont forget, from the very beginning, lawrence, we thought that at least half the American Population would get infected. The vast majority of people will have low symptomatology or no symptoms but they also become spreaders and they spread to people who are at risk. The thing is, lawrence, we went into this reopening way too early and people heard were reopening, even if they heard it in phases, to mean were back to normal. And its very hard to unring that bell. And were having people all over the country now, and especially as were seeing in the sun belt and in the south huge increases of cases and there is no reason to understand how that could possibly slow down. And i think the sad part here is that a lot of governors who rushed into this reopening too quickly are going to have to resource their orders. We may have to go back into a shelter in place system. Hopefully not. In the meantime, americans have got to hunker down and get ready for a much longer duration of having to endure Public Health methods until we get not only medication but really until we get the vaccine, lawrence. Donald trump is still intent on having a Republican National convention. He moved it from charlotte because he didnt like the regulations that would have been imposed, including social distancing in an arena. And now jacksonville, florida, where hes moved it to is making face masks mandatory. And, so, it remains to be seen what will happen there. But even with face masks, if donald trump manages to pack an arena in jacksonville for a republican convention, what would you expect to happen . Well, it will be an extraordinarily irresponsible decision, and the governor, who i know is a republican also, as well as the mayor of whatever city hes proposing, whatever it is, whatever it ends up being, they have to put their foot down for the sake of the health of the citizens of their cities and of those states. This is incredibly irresponsible to hold a convention under these circumstances, lawrence. Thank you very much for joining us again tonight. We really appreciate it. Sure. Coming up, the city of new york is about to paint the words black lives matter on fifth avenue in front of trump tower at any moment. Theyre going to do it tonight when there is no traffic there. Thats a live shot of fifth avenue right in front of trump tower. Donald trump is now saying that the words black lives matter are a symbol of hate. We will have more on americas symbols of hate after this break. R this break. Okay. Okay safe drivers save 40 guys guys check it out. Safe drivers save 40 safe drivers save 40 safe drivers save 40 thats safe drivers save 40 . It is, thats safe drivers save 40 . Hes right there. Its him hes here. Hes right here. Hi hi. Hey thats totally him. Its him thats totally the guy. Safe drivers do save 40 . Click or call for a quote today. Did yocould be signs that. Syour digestive systemwn isnt working at its best . Taking metamucil every day can help. Metamucil supports your daily Digestive Health using a special plantbased fiber called psyllium. Psyllium works by forming a gel in your digestive system to trap and remove the waste that weighs you down. Metamucils gelling action also helps to lower cholesterol and slows sugar absorption to promote healthy blood sugar levels. So, start feeling lighter and more energetic. By taking metamucil every day. As we speak, new york city is about to begin painting the words black lives matter on fifth avenue in front of trump tower. Thats a live shot of fifth avenue. Donald trump complained about that on twitter today, calling the words black lives matter, quote, a symbol of hate. New york major bill de blasio responded directly to trump saying, heres what you dont understand. Black people built fifth avenue and so much of this nation for which they have never been justly compensated. We are honoring them. The fact that you see it as aga denigrating your seat is a definition of racism. Military pay raises contain an amendment which has bipartisan support to change the names of military bases named after confederate soldiers who committed treason and waged a losing war against the United States of america to preserve slavery. This has always been a simple issue for me. I have always been opposed to monuments to confederates who committed treason and fought to preserve slavery. I didnt think i needed to read another article about the subject because my mind had been made up so many years ago and i hadnt really seen many new angles on the subject in a long time. And then, and then came Caroline Randal Williams stunning piece you want a con fed ralt monument . My body is a Confederate Monument. She has been educated at two of the oldest and richest universities in the world, harvard and oxford. She is a teacher who has taught in two of our poorest states, mississippi and west virginia. She is also an Award Winning poet and her article in the times combines the emotional power of poetry with precise prose that is at the same time excruciately painful and brilliantly illuminating. It is the most powerful piece of writing about Confederate Monuments i have ever read. Im going to read some of this article before she joins our discussion. I warn you that some of this is deeply, deeply shocking. And painful. Because slavery is and always should be deeply shocking. Caroline Randal Williams wrote i have rapecolored skin. My lightbrownblackness is a living testament to the rules, the practices, the causes of the old south. If there are those who want to remember the legacy of the confederacy if they want monuments, well, then my body is a monument. My skin is a monument. I am a black southern woman, and of my immediate white ancestors, all of them were rapists. I am the dedecember sant of black women and white men who raped their help. White men took what they wanted from women they did not love over whom they had extraordinary power and then failed to claim their children. My body and blood are a tangible truth of the south and its past. The black people i come from were owned by the white people i come from. The white people i come from fought and died for their lost cause, and i ask you now who dares to tell me to celebrate them . Who dares to ask me to accept their mounted pedestals . The manmade monuments must come down. I defy any sentimental southerner to defend our ancestors to me. I am quite literally made of the reasons to strip them of their laurels. Caroline Randall Williams joins us next. Us next. Last nights sleep, interrupted by pain . Tonight, silence it with new zzzquil night pain. Because pain should never get in the way of a restful nights sleep. New zzzquil night pain. Silence pain, sleep soundly. Should i invest in stocks or not . Meaning, are stocks going to rise or not . , lets instead stop looking at the investments, which we cant control, and lets now look at our goals, which we can control. In other words, we only want to take as much risk as is necessary to achieve our goals. We need to protect the money thats there. And that says you should be investing in. The dream version of the old south never existed. Any manufactured monument to that time and that place tells half a truth at best. The ideas and ideals it purports to honor are not real. Those are the words of caroline Randall Williams and her extraordinary article in the New York Times entitled you want a Confederate Monument . My body is a Confederate Monument. Joining us now is carol liine Randall Williams, writer in residence at vanderbilt university. Thanks very much for joining us tonight. We really appreciate it. Gosh, thanks so much for having me. Aye delighted to be here. Ive been so eager to talk to youre from the moment i first held your article in my hands, reading the first sentences. It is so arresting, i think as you knows a writer. Its not something anyone can turn away from. Its a concept i have not heard advanced before, that you are yourself a Confederate Monument. When did you begin to see it as think that way . I think that the idea really came from the question of the monuments, as somebody who grew up in tennessee and then went to school in mississippi for graduate school, and i also did teach for america in mississippi. So the monuments are everywhere, and you think how can they not have been torn down yet . And then i actually started to think about, you know, the descendants of nazis, and how the german this sort of german public stance on their monuments has been so to put them in their rightful place in museums and never forget and not dignify them, but utilize them as a tool to remember what not to do. And one of the most powerful elements of that is the descendants of former nazi soldiers renouncing their ancestors. And i thought why are there no southerners doing this . And i thought i have confederate ancesto ancestors. I will do it, because im a black woman and i will lead the way like we always do. I want to read you something that donald trump retweeted a video of Mitch Mcconnell saying this. And this is Mitch Mcconnells words, americans know that an imperfect nation built by imperfect heros is still the most Perfect Union the world has ever seen, and when the dust settles it is, never, never the mobs or bullies whom we honor. What is your reaction to that . Apart from the sort of staggering hypocrisy, i think putting the confederate soldiers within the framework of any language about american heroism is fundamentally inaccurate speaking in the first place. The confederate soldiers were not americans at the time that they were fighting on behalf of the Confederate States of america. They had declared themselves in revolt against the United States, which makes them american enemies, not american heroes in the first place. And i think that to me is sort of the mindboggling rewriting. If you want to talk about rewriting history, people say taking down the monuments is rewriting history. I say calling confederate soldiers who were treasonous traitors to their country american heroes, i think that that is a rewriting of history. Having grown up in the south around these monuments your whole life, are you at a point where you are surprised that it is finally happening . Or surprised that it took so long and you expected it to happen sooner, that were seeing so many of them come down . I think im interested to see what it yields beyond just taking them down. You know, in mississippi, taking it down doesnt mean anything until they actually take it all the way down, not just move it to some place else. And so i think if we actually get them down, it will mean some laws were rewritten, and thats a real change. And i i yearn for it. Thats all i can say. I hope that america can figure out how to actually enact necessary change. And i think that were in a time of revolution and evolution. And so maybe it will work. Caroline Randall Williams gets tonights last word. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. We really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. And caroline Randall Williams will join us again next week, actually next friday night, and you can hear more from caroline Randall Williams in conversation with trymaine lee in the latest episode of into america, available tonight wherever you get your podcasts. That is tonights last word. The the 11th hour with Brian Williams starts now. Good evening once again. Im ali velshi in for Brian Williams. Day 1259 of the Trump Administration. 125 days until the president ial election. As we come on the air tonight, in new york city, the symbol of the movement for Racial Justice could soon be painted in front of trump tower. The painted words black lives matter are expected to stretch down fifth avenue. This morning the president described this as a, quote,