Transcripts For MSNBCW The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell 20200421

After that, the question becomes how high does it go or does this go to the top in washington . And whats the rationale for changing the protocol on medical personnel as they have done as youve just outlined they used to have a much stricter protocol, now theyve have softened it down to kind of not having a protocol. Yes, exactly while the v. A. Has been saying publicly everything is fine, everything is fine. Nothing to see here. Our staff has all the equipment we need. The va is the last resort medical system for the United States if the civilian Health Care System collapses or needs help. Were supposed to turn to the v. A. As this gigantic government run health system. Their own problems are evident if you listen to their employees but they have been covering it up and really happy talking us about it, which isnt all that rational if they need help and thats why well do the special report tomorrow. So glad youre on that case. Well be watching tomorrow night. Thank you, rachel. Thanks, lawrence. Senator Debbie Stabenow of michigan will join us tonight with the latest on possible new package of relief legislation. The senate is working on. Well get her reaction to the very, very small and i stress small number of protesters that have occurred in michigan protests by people who are protesting the governors stayathome order there. Dr. Peter hotez will join us. He told the New York Times there is too much magical thinking, that was his phrase magical thinking about a vaccine for coronavirus. John hollowman will give us a look at the president ial campaign with a poll showing joe biden ahead of donald trump and showing that more people think joe biden will do a better job of handling the coronavirus pandemic than donald trump. We begin with the numbers. The numbers of reported coronavirus cases in the United States is now 775,647 and as of tonight, there are officially 42,043 reported deaths linked to coronavirus in the United States. Joe joyce, a trump voter and his daughter kristen disagreed about the coronavirus pandemic. Kristen told the New York Times he watched fox. He watched foxed and believe it was under control. Kristen remembers her father saying dont you think this is fishy . Do you know anyone who has it . Do you know anyone who has died from it . She said i dont but give me a week and i bet i will. A week later kristens dad joe joyce was hospitalized with coronavirus. In a pulitzerworthy report in the New York Times, tells the story is told of joe joyce from 1970s when he returned from vietnam, working as a gym teacher at a Catholic School to 43 years owning and operating j. J. Bubbles bar. 43 years that earned him the adjective beloved in the New York Times headline about him. Joe joyce boarded a cruise ship in florida on march 1st. The day after the United States recorded its first death from coronavirus. That cruise ship with joe joyce and his wife aboard was sailing full speed towards spain, full speed ahead toward the virus in spain. The second day that joe joyce was at sea, donald trump held a rally in North Carolina with thousands of people crowded to see him and cheer him on. Joe joyce flew back to new york from barcelona on march 13th and the went back to work at his bar. Day after that new york city closed bars. So joe and his wife went to their house in New Hampshire for forced vacation, ten days later on march 27th, joes daughter kristen immediately called an ambulance when she got off the phone with her father because he sounded so sick on the phone. Kristen thinks her father would have cancelled the cruise and the trip to europe and spain if donald trump had taken the threat more seriously instead of actually calling the coronavirus a hoax at one of his rallies. Kristen told the times if trump had gone on tv with a mask on and said hey, this is serious. I dont think he would have gone. When her father began to feel sick, he resisted getting tested. He didnt think he could have it kristen said because he wasnt 100 confident that it was a thing. On april 9th, joe joyce died. Cause of death, covid19. Possible contributing cause of death, watching fox and believing donald trump. Joe joyce is not the only one. Today the intrepid asked donald trump is he concerned about people that listen to him, believe him and get sick. It was a simple question but the answer could not possibly have been more perverse. I interviewed someone who said that his family got sick. They went to a funeral in mid march. They said mainly because the president wasnt taking it seriously. If the president had a mask on and said we should stay home, i would have stayed home and instead, we have family members sick because they were listening to you, do you feel like or are you concerned that down playing the virus maybe got some people sick . A lot of people love trump, right . A lot of people love me. See them all the time. I guess im here for a reason, you know. To the best of my knowledge, i won. And i think were going to win again. I think were going to win in a landslide. The trump nonanswer rambled on as his nonanswers always do. And he never spoke one word of sympathy for any one of the 42,043 americans that lost their lives to covid19 not one word. But he did say instead of expressing any sympathy for anyone who has died since thats what the question was about, he did say a lot of people love me and he did say he thinks hes going to win in a landslide. Those are the first two things that came to his mind and he said when asked about people dying because they made the mistake of people listening to him and believe him and its fair to interpret that as a demonstration of the only things that donald trump actually cares about. A lot of people love me and im going to win in a landslide. Its really one thing a lot of people love me, therefore im going to win in a landslide. It one thing. Thats all he cares about. If youre offered a chance as president of the United States to Say Something about americans who have died from coronavirus and what you say instead is a lot of people love me, so im going to win in a landslide. That makes it very, very clear nothing in this life matters more to you and that also makes it very clear that that is the answer of a sociopath, the answer of a person who demonstrated live on television today to the world that hes incapable of feeling anything for anyone that died of coronavirus. You can put the period of after anything. Hes incapable of feeling anything. 42,043 are just a number in Donald Trumps reelection calculations, a number he has to avoid talking about. The other number thats a problem for donald trump in his Reelection Campaign tonight is the 99 of us who have not been tested for coronavirus and most of us will not be tested for coronavirus by the time we get to election day in november and donald trump has to find a way to make that okay with voters who have not been tested for coronavirus while joe biden is campaigning for president promising to take president ial responsibility for providing americans with the kind of testing they will need to safely go back to work or safely go back to school. A new nbc news poll shows joe biden running at 49 of registered voters nationally with donald trump at 42 . That same nbc news poll finds that 87 say that it is very likely or somewhat likely that there would be a resurgence of covid19 cases if people suddenly went back to work now. Only 12 said that that is not likely. Those 12 along with donald trump dont seem to have a clear idea about how a parachute works. Dr. Masri in louisiana has been keeping a video diary for us of life and death in hospitals in new orleans and tonight dr. Masri compares all of the precautions that we are taking, all of the precautions were taking that are working against the coronavirus. He compares those precautions to a parachute. Today in the local paper here in new orleans we have eight pages of obituaries of deaths here in the city in the last 24 hours. Thats triple the number of deaths that ive seen in any other paper before and it really a sign of the times. But also here in this paper, there is a pagelong ad from the area and local Business Leaders asking the mayor to lift the stayathome order and have an immediate return to the economy on may 1st. Now the concern here from the Health Care Professionals is a second peak as we relax principles that have gotten us to this point. This is like a parachute. If i jump out of an airplane and everything is going good, i dont say hey, the parachute is working well and get rid of the parachute. I keep the parachute on. I make sure i have a safe landing and we need to make sure as we move forward, we have a safe landing as we return to what was our normal before. Leading off our discussion tonight, the director of the center for Disease Research and policy at the university of minnesota. Hes the author of deadliest enemy and the cohost of showtimes the circus and editor and chief of the recount. Could you referee the issue that broke out between the governor of maryland and the president. The task force showing a map of where all the Testing Laboratories are in the United States and showing a map of where the Testing Laboratories are in maryland insisting the governor of maryland did not have to make a deal with south korea in order to obtain testing from a testing supplies from south korea. What is happening with testing in america tonight and what do the maps that the white house showed us today have to do with testing . Well, first of all, i would tell you just right now believe your governors. They know where testing is at and how much is available in their states. They want testing more than i can tell you. When they go up against the white house, its not about a political issue. It not about a subjective issue. Its an objective issue for them. They know. Its one of the Critical Issues right now, the lack of testing and how much. Just three weeks ago i had an op ed in the New York Times within three weeks testing will implode in this country because of the fact weve run out of all our reagents. The chemicals we need are being used in a worldwide basis and people that come out here say publicly, test, test, test. Thats not feasible, thats not possible because we have run out of reagents for many of these tests. John, the president was up there saying that Governor Hogan of maryland just simply didnt know, didnt know what was available to him for testing. Lets listen to how Governor Hogan responded to that on cnn. Im not sure what the president s referring to. I have a pretty good understanding of what is going on and i appreciated the information provided by his team, but he wasnt there. Im not sure what he was trying to say. John, thats kind of a charitable reaction to what the president had to say about the governor. Right. I mean, look, the governor i think is trying to in a subtle way point out that most of the time donald trump doesnt know what hes talking about on the factual grounds and that it is the case that a lot of governors have found people within administration who they have been able to do business. Its also the case that this is a class kind of example of what happens with donald trump in any of these instances, weve seen it now lawrence ever since this crisis started where he personalizes everything and right now he feels as though hes in the cross hairs on the question of testing. He in fact, is really in the cross hairs on the question of testing which is to say under relentless and justifiable criticism on the point from Public Health experts, from governors, from people all over who are out in the field seeing how this virus is playing out, hes been under fire for the last few months but in this briefing tonight, he really seemed to be focused on the notion they are coming after me on testing and he sees Governor Hogan. He has to personalize it so he focuses on hogan and says the thing thats obviously not really connected to the reality hogan is dealing with, why hogan had to do what he had to do or what his administration is doing to help hogan do what hogan has to do. Michael, the president seems to want to get away from every question about testing in these briefings and if the questioning gets too pointed about testing, hes actually ended some of the briefings. What are the questions you would like to have answered by the white house, by this task force about testing in america and where testing in america is going and what how much testing we need, what kinds of testing we need. Well, first of all, there is three basic questions we need to address. Number one, what are we going to do about test reagents . This was provided by the private sector. The whole world wants them, we have to adjust how we manufacture them. This cant happen overnight but needs federal leadership to make this happen. Second thing, how well did they work . After the cdc had challenges with testing we know about, the fda opened the flood gates and said anybody that had a shingle that said testing on it could come and test. We have over 90 antibody tests out there which a senior fda official himself said many of them are crappy. We got to clean up the testing itself so we know what works or not. You wouldnt know if youre a Physicians Office or clinic how well these work. We got to get administration to get on top of that. Final thing we have to become clear on why are we testing. We have too many people getting on talk shows saying test, test, test. Without understanding what these tests can and cant do. I believe in the testing very much but has to be done appropriately. If i go and test a large group of people now, half of them on antibody will be false positives. If i told the nurse youre antibody positive, theres a 1 to 2 chance its not even true. Are we testing or not, we need the federal government to lead us in all three categories. John, joe biden has clearly made testing a president ial campaign issue. It looks like the number one president ial campaign issue. Donald trumps position on it is to run away from it as much as he can. This issue is going to be as far as i can tell, the number one issue in these president ial briefings Going Forward. I think that the Biden Campaign has a broader critique, lawrence. It is going to be i think not just the central issue that the Biden Campaign wants to drive but i think is going to be really at the core of what this election is about, which is what happened in the months of january, february and the first half of march . Obviously, testing was a big part of that but i think the broader political case that the Biden Campaign wants to make and i think for a lot of americans who are going to be going into this election judging Donald Trumps performance, this is the central issue of his performance to the extent that the election is sometimes when there is a president ial incumbent, sometimes elections turn out to be closer to referendums and sometimes are closer to choices. Often unpopular incumbent try to make them into choices and try to disqualify their opponent but i think the scale of this disaster that weve watched unfold now means that it very hard to imagine that the election in november is going to be anything other than a referendum on Donald Trumps leadership on the coronavirus and in particular, how he missed so badly in those first crucial two and a half months, the testing issue Going Forward from there but very much this entire period is going to be pretty much what will be on the ballot in november. Michael, what testing are we going to need in the fall . For example, for universities to welcome students back and welcome them into dormitories, are universities going to have to be able to test all of the returning students, some of the returning students . About businesses . What is testings role to get people back to work . Does everyone in a workplace have to be tested to regroup at a workplace . Well, thats again one of the mistakes i think that we keep perpetrating over and over again. We got to test everybody. Ideally that would be great but to open back up and to get people back into society, we need to have enough tests so that everyone who has a symptom today could be tested immediately. Not have to wait days or have to not get tested at all. That would be the first step. The second step is be able to test their contacts. People around them, know thats the case. I worry about the broad scale testing were talking about because as i mentioned in my previous answer, a lot of people wont have true positive test results. They will be false. So that one of the things we need to do is make sure we have it for people that are sick and get that done. If we did that, that would be a huge step forward for many states. Our state here in minnesota, were having a challenge testing the people that are sick. Michael, john, thank you both for starting us off tonight. Really appreciate it. And when we come back, dr. Peter hotez will join us to explain why there is what he calls too much magical thinking for the timeline for a vaccine and how long it will be before we get back to whatever the new normal turns out to be. Son. Dad not cool. You know whats not uncool . Old spice after hours. And jazz. Dad, i prefer ultra smooth, it handles sweat without all that. Jazz. Youre right son. And i like to question your im yoevery move. N law. Like this left turn. Its the next one. You always drive this slow . How did you make someone i love . That must be why youre always so late. I do not speed. And thats saving me cash with drivewise. My son, he did say that you were the safe option. And thats the nicest thing you ever said to me. So get allstate. Stop bossing. Where good drivers save 40 for avoiding mayhem, like me. This is my sons favorite color, you should try it. [mayhem] you always drive like an old lady . [tina] youre an old lady. 450degree oven, to box, to you, know that from our its our policy that your pizza is never touched once it comes out of the oven. And were taking extra steps, like no contact delivery, to ensure it. Its more than just fast. It keeps all your devices running smoothly. With builtin security that protects your kids. No matter what theyre up to. It protects your info. And gives you 24 7 peace of mind. That if its connected, its protected. Even that that petcamera thingy. [ whines ] can your internet do that . Xfinity xfi can because its. Simple, easy, awesome. [ barking ] Donald Mcneil jr. Appeared with rachel to explain his exhaustive report in the New York Times looking at the year ahead and how we get back to whatever our new normal will become. According to the 20 experts that he interviewed for his article, the two most important elements of getting us to the new normal are testing and a vaccine and none of the experts think the challenges of testing or the challenges of developing and distributing a vaccine will be met any time soon. Antibody tests for example are r important for determining who might be immune or almost immune to the virus because their body had to fight the virus and today new york state started giving antibody tests to randomly selected sample of 30 people but this morning, dr. Fauci said Antibody Testing has its own set of challenges. The problem is that these are tests that need to be validated and calibrated and many of the tests out there dont do that. So even though you hear about companies saying flooding the market with antibody tests, a lot are not validated. There is an assumption, a reasonable assumption that when you have an antibody, youre protected against reinfection but that has not been proven for this particular virus. Donald trump is constantly saying that we will have a vaccine very soon. Dr. Anthony fauci constantly has to stress that a vaccine is at least a year and a half away and then donald trump offers his amateur opinion again that it will sooner than that, but even the 18 month frame work dr. Fauci stresses might be hugely optimistic, the fastest development of a vaccine in history took four years and once that vaccine is developed or a new vaccine is developed and proven effective, distribution of the vaccine could take years. The New York Times reports most american vaccine plants produce only about 5 million to 10 million doses a year. If a vaccine is invented, the United States could need 300 million doses or 600 million if two shots are required. Were joined by one of the experts consulted by the New York Times in Donald Mcneils exhaustive report. Dr. Peter hoet iz is dean of the National School of tropical medicine at Baylor College of medicine. Hes codirector of the center for Vaccine Development at texas Childrens Hospital in houston. Dr. Hotez, thank you for joining us tonight. Lets start with the vaccine story and how long a road that could turn out to be. Thanks for having me tonight. You know, dr. Fauci has charged us with an aspirational goal, a year to 18 months. It would be unprecedented and were working to make it happen. We have a vaccine were trying to accelerate into Clinical Trials. Its manufactured. We have up to 200,000 doses ready to move into Clinical Trials and hopefully well engage the food and Drug Administration about that and there will be at least a dozen other vaccines that will enter clinical testing so that is good news. The trouble is clinical testing is an arduous process. You have to show, one, that the vaccine works in people and is safe in people. For instance, our vaccine weve shown works in Laboratory Animals against challenge with the virus and appears to be safe but weve got to show all those things all over again in people and same with every other vaccine candidate and its tough to really compress those timelines too much and thats where the lag happens. Despite what youll often hear from the anti vaccine lobby that vaccines are not adequately tested for safety. In fact, its quite the opposite among the different pharmaceuticals, there is nothing more tested for safety and efficacy than vaccines. For the simple reason more often than not youre immunizing Healthy People to keep them from getting sick so you have to be absolutely pristine in your safety profile. Do you sometimes discover flaws in the vaccine after the vaccine has gone public . Thats the least optimal scenario. We do have some good belts and suspenders around that. We have four independent systems of vaccine monitoring after the vaccine is licensed in the United States. This is monitored by the cdc and also the food and Drug Administration, and it is very robust and it has detected problems but you dont want to do that, right . You want to make certain during your Clinical Trials, youve got something thats safe and thats why we dont want to rush it too much. We all understand the pressures and how devastating this virus is and were doing everything we can and, you know, im waking up at 4 00 in the morning and ill text my colleagues and find out that theyve actually been up since 3 30 in the morning and have already texted me, then going to bed late to make this happen and groups all over the world are doing this. Its an international effort. But its going to be tough and to kind of increase our likelihood of success, one of the things were doing is trying different technologies. So our vaccine is a traditional one that uses the same Protein Technology used in the hepatitis b vaccine all over the world so ours can be used not only in the the United States but suitable for india and everywhere else. And there are other newer platform technologies and this will increase our likelihood. Dr. Peter hotez, please get some sleep but please stay at it. Were all desperately hoping for success. Thanks so much. Thank you, doctor. When we come back, well be joined by an Emergency Room Physician in michigan and michigan senator Debbie Stabenow. Its been worn down to ugly, thin grass now, theres scotts thickr lawn. The revolutionary 3in1 solution for weak lawns. With a soil improver to strengthen roots. Seed to fill in gaps. And fertilizer to feed. The result, up to a 50 thickr lawn after just one application. Get everything you need for spring at scotts. Com order today. What does an apron have to do with insurance . An apron is protection. An apron is not quitting until youve helped make something better. What does an apron have to do with insurance . For us, especially right now, everything. 450degree oven, to box, to you, know that from our for us, especially right now, everything. Its our policy that your pizza is never touched once it comes out of the oven. And were taking extra steps, like no contact delivery, to ensure it. This virus is testing all of us. And its testing the people on the front lines of this fight most of all. So abbott is getting new tests into their hands, delivering the critical results they need. And until this fight is over, we. Will. Never. Quit. Because they never quit. Only 12 of americans think it is not likely that there would be a surge in covid19 infections if everyone in america suddenly went back to work tomorrow. From that 12 , there has sprung up a tiny and i mean tiny band of protesters who represent just a very, very tiny fraction of 1 of the population, way, way, way less than 1 of the population. A few thousand people across the country, at most, in a country of 330 Million People and those protesters want everything to go back to normal tomorrow. We do risk amplifying the protesters dangerous message by paying too much attention to them but think its worth seeing one moment of protest to show just how sick some of these protesters already are. In this video you will see one of the brave front line heroes in this fight, a nurse in denver yesterday standing in front of a vehicle containing a woman who screams at the nurse to go to china. A nurse who is standing there to save that womans life, a nurse who remains standing there after the woman tells that nurse to go to china. This is a free country, america is free, go to china if you want communism. Go to china joining us now is a emergency medicine physician and the executive director of the committee to protect medicare. Dr. Davidson, the senate is considering new relief legislation including possible relief for hospitals. What would you need, what do you need at this point in your hospital, in your work in michigan . Well, we always need to make sure we have the protective equipment for our staff and particularly, my nurses, respiratory therapist and nurse assistants spending so much time in the room with patients and putting themselves at risk but what we need to get out of mess Donald Trumps month of february created is a capacity to test. As your previous guests said in the first segment, we need to be able to test everyone who is sick, which finally a couple days ago i now can test everyone with symptoms that comes into my hospital, thats a first. Thats three months after our first case but we need to be able to test their contacts. We need to be able to widely test health care workers. People in high risk populations. And we simply do not have that capacity and apparently, the president doesnt think we need the capacity and or he thinks its on the governors to do it, that he has nothing to do with it. Dr. Davidson, were going to ask your senator if she can get those things for you. Dr. Rob davidson, thank you for joining our discussion tonight. Really appreciate it. Thanks. The senate is working on a new relief package to replenish funding for the Paycheck Protection Program and funding for Small Business after its been demonstrate canned thanks to the republican definition of Small Business large corporations exploited the Small Business relief plan to help themselves including the Ruth Chris Steak House chain and the shake shack chain. Once shake shack got caught reaching into the Small Business pot, shake shack was shamed into announcing that it is giving back that money. Joining our discussion now is democratic senator Debbie Stabenow from michigan. Ranking member on the agriculture committee, and she sent a letter today urging the Trump Administration to protect the food supply and essential workers during this pandemic. Senator stabenow. You heard what dr. Rob davidson said he needs, they finally have enough testing to test people with symptoms but he needs much more testing support from the federal government. Can you get that in this next bill . Well, we have some good news and i first have to tell you lawrence, its wonderful to be with you but thank you for having someone who is a friend of mine on with me, dr. Rob davidson, who just is a wonderful physician. One of the heroes, the many, Many Health Care heroes that we have right now in michigan. But the reality is that were very, very close. They are literally right this minute, you know how it is, going through all the language and so on but in addition to another 250 billion for the Small Business program, youre talking about, we have won another 120 billion to actually focus on folks that arent the well connected, the mom and pop operations, those who are banked differently. Minority businesses. Some of our farmers and Rural Communities using farm credit. So we want this to go to everybody in terms of Small Businesses and particularly our smaller Small Businesses and those who did not get the opportunity to apply the first time around. On health care, were looking at 100 billion, 75 billion of that going to hospitals. 25 billion as a down payment on testing. And i so appreciate all of your focus on testing because we will not get the economy open again or save lives Going Forward if we are not testing so that the people who are sick stay home and everybody else can go to work. Right now, everybody is having to stay home because we dont know where that virus is and so i released a report on behalf of our caucus and im the policy chair in the senate for our caucus and we did a report on testing and welcome folks going to my website to take a look at it tonight. It lays out what happens from january 20th, the very first the very first virus case found in the United States, which is the same day as the very first positive case in south korea. Two different visions of how our countries operated on testing and taking it seriously and april 14th when we closed our report, south korea had 10,000 positive cases. We had over 600,000 and now we know were on our way to 800,000. So we have to test and we have got to protect people in those meat packing plants and Nursing Homes and group homes and hospitals and really, ultimately, weve got to have a test that allows everybody, whether going into an auto plant or a restaurant to work to be able to get a quick test in the morning, know they are okay and be able to go to work and that consumers would then have the confidence when they go into the restaurant or any other place in the community that in fact, they will know that people are there who have tested negative. Senator, how far away are we from that Testing Capacity . Unfortunately we are ways away. Youre talking about millions of tests. I mean, you know, weve heard up to a million a day and then i heard this weekend 5 million tests a day to really do it correctly. So one of the challenges in addition to just ramping up completely is that we also dont have the ingredients. It not the machines the president talks about. We got those. Each kind of machine, each manufacturer uses a different test kit. They use different chemicals called reagents and thats one of the challenges we have right now. We dont have ingredients and materials. So much are from overseas. We dont get there without a National Aggressive plan that everyone buys into that everybody understands in the community. This is what were trying to do. This is what were going to do. We know a vaccine is the answer but until then, here is how were going to do it. Here is the plans were going to take. Were going to bring the production back to the United States so that we can own that, control that and have access to what we need. We need to do it nationally. Short of that, we are really having extremely difficult time trying to do this state by state. Senator Debbie Stabenow, thank you for joining us tonight. Appreciate it. Good to be with you. Coming up, one president ial candidate wants to do exactly what senator stabenow was talking about and one president ial candidate doesnt want to do any of that and doesnt want the responsibility for any of that. Thats next. Getting older shouldnt mean giving up all the things she loves to do. It should just mean, well, finding new ways to do them. Right at homes professional team thoughtfully selects caregivers to provide help with personal care, housekeeping, and of course, meal preparation. Oh, that smells so good. Aw, and it tastes good, too. We can provide the right care, right at home. Than Rheumatoid Arthritis or Psoriatic Arthritis. When considering another treatment, ask about xeljanz xr, a oncedaily pill for adults with moderate to severe Rheumatoid Arthritis or active Psoriatic Arthritis for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. It can reduce pain, swelling, and significantly improve physical function. 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An accurate count helps Public Health officials know who is at risk, and First Responders identify the resources they need to protect our communities. Complete your census at 2020census. Gov and help shape our future. A new nbc news wall street journal poll shows 36 of registered voters say they generally trust what donald trump says about the coronavirus while 52 say that they dont trust him. 45 say joe biden would do a better job of fighting the coronavirus a ninepoint advantage over donald trump. Donald trump is trying to keep the focus on china when he talks about covid19 and the Biden Campaign also wants to keep the focus on everything donald trump has had to say about china and covid19. The Biden Campaign released this powerful ad this weekend. He failed to act so now trump and his allies are launching negative attacks against joe biden to hide the truth. Here are the facts. Joe biden warned the nation in january that trump left us unprepared for a pandemic. Then biden told trump he should insist on having American Health experts on the ground in china. I would be on the phone with china making it clear, we need are going to be in your country. You have to be open. You have to be clear. We have to know what is going on. Trump rolled over for the chinese and took their word. The president tweeted china is working hard to contain the coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. I spoke with president xi and they are working very, very hard and i think it will work out fine. Trump praised the chinese 15 times in january and february as the Coronavirus Spread across the world. Its a tough situation. I think theyre doing a very good job. Are you concerned about a potential impact on the Global Economy . I think china will do a good job. Trump never got a cdc team on the ground in china and the travel ban he brags about, trump let in 40,000 travelers from china into america after he signed it. Not exactly airtight. Look around, 22 million americans are out of work and we have more officially reported cases and deaths than any other country. Donald trump left this country unprepared and unprotected for the worst Public Health and economic crisis in our lifetime and now were paying the price. All the negative ads in the world cant change the truth. After this break John Heilemann and the bnts globe will join our discussion of the president ial campaign in the year of the coronavirus. E coron. A new vehicle remotely with participating dealers. An effortless transaction all without leaving the comfort and safety of your home. Thats the power of sanctuary. And for a little extra help, receive 0 apr financing and defer your first payment up to 120 days on the purchase of a new lincoln. I have moderate to severe pnow, theres skyrizi. Things are getting clearer, yeah i feel free to bare my skin yeah thats all me. Nothing and me go hand in hand nothing on my skin thats my new plan. 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People are dying in this country, people who have family and friends of all political persuasions, and no one will be spared the economic devastation. Joining our discussion now, bina venkataraman. She is the Editorial Page Editor for the boston globe. She also served as an adviser to president obama during the ebola epidemic. John heilemann is back with us. Bina, a very, very sad weekend at the boston globe with those obituaries, the editorial today, and it all coming in a president ial campaign. Its easy to forget from day to day that there is a president ial campaign, but the president seems to think the way to run his campaign is in that White House Briefing room every day by getting in these fights with reporters. Thats right. I mean i think in a sense were being reminded every day that hes running a campaign because hes using those briefing opportunities of the White House Coronavirus task force in fact to continue running for president and campaigning for president. That is part of what inspired this editorial today, which is to say if the president is going to use that platform to make his case for the presidency, its time we take him on and really judge him on his own terms. He talked about in his inauguration speech in 2017 american carnage, this american carnage stops right here, stops right now. He was describing factories scattered across the american landscape like tombstones. When has the american landscape looked more like a grave site than it does today, now, in 2020 under his watch . And with many of these deaths, much of the economic devastation, preventable if the president would have taken earlier action, if the white house would have aggressively contained this outbreak on the onset. And here we are weeks later, watching that unfold. I think if you look at the president s statements even in late february where he said there would be the cases would come close to zero in a couple of days, that this was going to disappear, reassuring the american public, in fact misleading the public about the threat. We can just use his own words to evaluate how his presidency has unfolded and how hes doing in responding to this pandemic. John heilemann, theres an old rule in politics that i used to see when i was a kid in boston watching people running for city council all the way up to the highest offices, which is that when your opponent is in trouble and struggling, just get out of the way and let the opponent do that. And theres an argument to be made for the Biden Campaign just basically staying out of the way, putting out ads, but let donald trump have that stage if that stage is working against him every day, if hes alienating more people every day in the White House Briefing room. Right. I mean i think the reality is that joe biden and ive said this before, you know is in a challenging position in one sense because he has no public office. He has no official platform. Hes not engaged in this fight in any kind of practical, tangible way. So at times hes struggled to get traction because hes in his basement in wilmington, delaware, and hes trying to occasionally say, like, what his plan would be if he were president now, whatever. None of it matters, it seems to me, lawrence, because the president is losing right now. Hes losing because he doesnt understand that the things hes saying, the ways hes behaving, how hes acting in these epic, long briefings every day, youre correct. He is running his campaign from the White House Briefing room, and hes running it badly. And you can see that reflected in the numbers. You can see it reflected not just in the headtohead polling numbers that have biden ahead by seven, eight, nine points depending on which poll you look at, depending on whether youre looking at battleground states or nationally, but all of them have biden ahead. But also on the crucial question, we talked about this earlier in the show. Its going to be a referendum election. You look at Donald Trumps Approval Rating after having a brief little flurry of rally around the leader, a little boost, its fallen back now to where it was before the crisis. Thats never happened before. We have big crises in america, and people rally around the president. Not happening for trump. And then on the key issue of dealing with the coronavirus, biden polls way ahead of trump on that issue. And then finally on this big question, are americans right now more worried about the pandemic coming back, or are they more worried about the economy . Trump is trying to convince them, focus on the economy. Weve got to open up, weve got to open up. And overwhelmingly, twothirds of the country says, no, were much more worried about the virus and wed like to stick with these stayathome regulations. So trump is losing every argument hes in the middle of, and if im the Biden Campaign, im happy im not in the middle of this fight. Let the guy continue to keep making the mistakes hes making. And, bina, the president seems to think that getting his name somewhere near or on the 1,200 check that some people are going to get is what he needs to do. He doesnt seem to understand that a lot of people getting those checks also want to get a test. They desperately want to get a test and theyre looking to the president of the United States to get coronavirus testing. I think thats absolutely right, and i think his idea, his notion that the governors of the states are responsible for this is so incompatible with his statements just a week ago, where he claimed total authority and control over the states. I think whats also telling about these polls, the washington im sorry the wall street journal nbc poll which john mentioned, it shows that 66 of americans are trusting their governors right now as opposed to 36 trusting trump on this issue. So i think even on the measure of where hes trying to place the blame and what the American People are actually seeing, notwithstanding a few protesters. Bina venkataraman gets tonights last word. Bina, thank you for joining us. John heilemann, thank you for joining our discussion. That is tonights last word. The 11th hour with Brian Williams starts now. Flashing red in the skies above a city in crisis, the Empire State Building high above new york on a clear monday night. Good evening on this day 1,187 of the Trump Administration. Just 197 days to go now until our president ial election. In fact, the president talked about the election day. He said the following. Quote, i think were going to win in a landslide because, quote, a lot of people love trump. A lot of people love me. He said that at a Coronavirus Briefing with over 40,000 americans dead