Transcripts For MSNBCW The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell 20190813

Strategic. And c, knows that whoever is the nominee is going to have to consider her as a running mate. And may be considered as a running mate from not being in the pool of president ial contenders is a good move at this point. And a southern running mate for the democrats, thats something we havent had for quite a while. Let alone someone whos incredibly talented and charismatic. And did we mention africanamerican woman which is something theyve never had ever. Thank you, rachel this is one of those wicked strange nights when i find myself agreeing with donald trump. Yes, i said that. And i mean agreeing with him word for word. In one of his tweets today. And i also agree with the person who currently claimed to be the White House Press secretary even though we have never heard her voice publicly, i agree with her for the first and only time about the very same thing that i agree with donald trump on. And that is a very small piece of the ground we will have to cover in the next hour and one of the least important pieces of ground we will cover in the next hour. So we will save that for later in the hour. And i think many of you are going to find yourselves in agreement with this one, in agreement with donald trump for this one time. But we begin tonight with the death in prison of a former friend of Donald Trumps, a man who donald trump called a terrific guy, who with Donald Trumps full approval liked girls who in Donald Trumps words were on the younger side. It took the death of an accused child rapist and sex trafficker and friend of president s trump and clinton to unite the democrats and republicans on the House Judiciary Committee in the search for information from donald trump and William Barrs Justice Department. Chairman jerry nadler and the Ranking Member of the House Judiciary Committee doug collins cosigned a letter tonight to the Justice Department with 23 questions about the death of Jeffrey Epstein. From an apparent suicide on the morning of august 10th, 2019 while in your custody at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in new york. The letter is addressed to hugh hurwitz, the acting director of the bureau of prisons, which is an agency in the Justice Department under attorney general William Barrs control. Hugh hurwitts is a lifetime government bureaucrat whose career began in republican administrations but as also included democratic administrations. He started as a lowlevel assistant in the bureau of prisons the year after he graduated from college. He eventually became a lawyer, spent some time in private law practice, rurnld to the bure o. Of prisons in 1997 in a technical capacity as an assistant chief for construction. During the Bush Administration he worked in a technical job in the food and drug administration, later became the fdas i. T. Guy. Moved on to another technical job having nothing to do with policy and the department of education during the Obama Administration he joined nasa and the inspector generals office. And returned to the bureau of prisons in 2015 as an assistant director. May 18th of 2018 attorney general Jeff Sessions appointed hugh hurwitz the acting director of the bureau of prisons. And because this is the Trump Administration he is still the acting director. Over a year later. When you see hugh hurwitz testify to the House Judiciary Committee both under oath and under pressure as he most surely will, you will be seeing the lassic government technocrat. You will not be seeing anyone who has ever run a prison or a jail himself. He has never had one day of experience working in a prison or a jail. It is possible he has never met an inmate. But it was his job to keep Jeffrey Epstein alive. It was also William Barrs job to keep Jeffrey Epstein alive. And attorney general barr said today in effect dont blame me. Attorney general barr claimed to be appalled and angry. Those were his words. About the death of Jeffrey Epstein. And he made it very clear that hugh hurwitz is in line to take the fall for this one. We are now learning of serious irregularities at this facility that are deeply concerning and demand a thorough investigation. So william barr is clearly going point downward and blame hugh hurwitz or someone lower down the chain of command at the federal Correction Center in new york where Jeffrey Epstein died. Maybe the barr investigation will ultimately point the finger at the unionized guards who failed to keep Jeffrey Epstein alive. Or the chief psychologist of the Correctional Center who was supposed to be in charge of the suicide watch of Jeffrey Epstein and the aftermath of the suicide watch of Jeffrey Epstein. After Jeffrey Epstein reportedly tried to kill himself last month he was placed on suicide watch for some period of time and then reportedly taken off suicide watch. The federal bureau of prisons rules for suicide watches were written in 2007 when hugh hurwitz was working at the department of education. Its entirely possible hugh hurwitz had no idea what those rules were until he got the judiciary committees letter tonight. One of the rules says once an inmate has been placed on watch the watch may not be terminated under any circumstance without the Program Coordinator or designee performing a facetoface evaluation. Only the Program Coordinator will have the authority to remove an inmate from suicide watch. The Program Coordinator is usually the prisons chief psychologist. Question 12 of the judiciary committees letter to the bureau of prisonsize, does mcc new york have such a Program Coordinator . Did he or she authorize the removal of mr. Epstein from suicide watch . If not who did . Question 13, did the Program Coordinator consult with anyone else in making this determination . If so, who . Question 14. Was the termination of mr. Emsteins suicide watch by ought fishel who made such determination discussed with or directed by any supervisory personnel or leadership of the bureau of prisons or any department of justice personnel or executive Branch Personnel outside of the bureau of prisons . Question 15, who at the bureau of Prisons Department of justice and elsewhere in the executive branch was notified of the termination of mr. Epsteins suicide watch and when . The Trump White House is the craziest white house in history. It is the most reckless group of people who have ever worked in a white house. And the president himself is the most reckless of them all. The judiciary committees letter signed by the top democrat and the Top Republican on the committee, is asking if anyone in the Trump White House was involved or aware of the removal of the suicide watch of Jeffrey Epstein. Thats whats in question number 14. Was the termination of mr. Epsteins suicide watch discussed with or directed by any supervisory personnel or leadership of the bureau of prisons or any department of justice personnel or executive Branch Personnel . Was william barr involved . Was donald trump involved . Thats what is in question number 14. And the House Judiciary Committee is going to get answers to these questions, to all of these questions, including please provide information pertaining to the individual correction officers who were responsible for monitoring mr. Epstein on august 9th and august 10th specifically with respect to how long they had been on their shifts at the time mr. Epstein had been found nonresponsive in his cell. Question 17, if mr. Epstein was removed from suicide watch, what precautions were put in place to help prevent the possibility of selfinjury from mr. Epstein given that he was transitioning from suicide watch . Were there any steps taken to remove possible implements of selfinjury . Question 20, were any Video Surveillance cameras placed in or near mr. Epsteins cell . Do recordings show the circumstances that led to mr. Epsteins death or the presence of any other person during this time period . The bipartisan letter sent by the House Judiciary Committee to the acting director of the bureau of prisons says, the apparent suicide of this highprofile and if allegations are proven to be accurate particularly reprehensible individual while in the federal governments custody demonstrates severe miscarriages of and deficiencies in inmate protocol and has allowed the deceased to ultimately evade facing justice. Any victims of mr. Epsteins actions will forever be denied proper recourse. The competency and rigor of our criminal Justice System has been marred by this apparent oversight. Leading off our discussion tonight mimi rocah, former assistant u. S. Attorney in the Southern District of new york. Shes an msnbc legal krirkt. And john heilemann, National Affairs analyst for msnbc news and msnbc. He is cohost and executive producer of showtimes the circus. Mimi, you know these facilities down there in lower manhattan. Former u. S. Attorney tweeted over the weekend that surely there is video that will tell us something if not everything about this. There will be video that will be part of the puzzle that theyre going to have to piece together. There wont be video in the sell because of privacy rights. But there will be video from the hallways. In will be there will be im sure theyre already looking somebody is going through whatever video can be gone through. Theyre look at who did epstein speak to. Who did he have phone calls with . Who did he have contact with in the time between when he was taken off suicide watch and killed himself presumably . You know, every personnel, everyone who works there is going to be interviewed and questioned separately and carefully. But the real problem here in my mind is we need answers and we need both the public and the victims to trust the answers that we get. And with bill barr at the helm and doing what hes already doing, which is spinning this, like he did with the mueller report, how can anybody trust it . He had been recused. He unrecused himself to take responsibility over the Southern District investigation. And now hes already disclaiming responsibility as you said. And i think for anyone to have faith in what the findings are, which are so important to the victims and the Justice System as a whole, bill barr must recuse himself. John, there is an established republican congressional view of responsibility for Department Heads in situations like this, especially if its the head of the state department and the death occurs in benghazi. All of that was blamed on Hillary Clinton by house republicans. Heres william barr at the top of his department. But this letter tonight cosigned by the leading republican on the House Judiciary Committee is asking all the right questions. Yes. Does the word hypocrisy mean anything . Thats not a new thing for this Republican Party in this age of donald trump to cast aside all prior alleged convictions or commitments to how responsibility works, where the buck stops in situations like this. I think its, you know youve seen the cognitive dissonance as you watched before the epstein event, you know, on friday you had the names of some prominent people who were implicated in the epstein thing. You saw bill richldsons name. You saw George Mitchells name come out. You saw Donald Trumps name. And you saw bill clintons name. And yet overt weekend you have people around donald trump basically pointing to bill clinton as the president stoked this Conspiracy Theory by retweeting someone who claimed that this is part of the clinton body count. Yet it is the case that both of them are were known historical consorts of Jeffrey Epstein and only one of them is the current president of the United States whose Justice Department runs the federal prison system. So im not endpajing in any conspiracy theories just to say if youre going to start asking about culpability and youre going to start point fingers the place to start looking is with the government that runs that facility. And this goes all the way up to this attorney general, this attorney general who has shown over and over again that hes in this game first and foremost to protect donald trump above all. Mimi, to go back to your point about the barr nonrecusal. Because the investigations in the southern zringt do cross lines with donald trump here and there and here is someone who is a former friend of donald tru trumps. Ironically, oddly, given his job, his first job in new york at a private high school in new york by William Barrs father, William Barrs father as the headmaster of school actually hired this guy, thats plenty of grounds right there for barr to recuse himself. But you didnt, as you pointed out in this case. Which means he left himself in charge fully of the incarceration of Jeffrey Epstein. What efforts did he make to xlnt importance of this prisoner . Exactly. Hes now saying in his Statement Today this is such an important case. If it were that important of a case, a case you said im so invested in this case and im going to put aside those maybe apparent conflicts that people might have issue with because i want to oversee, it i want to make sure its done right this time around, well, then you should have said from the top down whatever resources you need to protect this man, the same way they did with el chapo, right . Its not like they arent capable of doing it. Whatever resources you need i will get you. Im not saying there arent systematic problems on a daytoday basis in the mcc, other prison thats maybe will come to light as a result of this and be addressed but he could have reached out, he should have reached out, especially given his position, and said i am giving you the resources you need to make sure Jeffrey Epstein goes to trial and sees that day of trial. And so john, as mimi said in her first statement tonight, william barr is already spinning this. He goes out there today and goes way beyond anything we know in the news reports and says serious irregularities in this facility which he supervises, which is under his jurisdiction. And that again is william barr stepping out ahead of what we know before were allowed to know. And then not giving us any hint of what an irregularity is. Weve seen bill barr do this before, step out ahead of everything we know and cast events in a certain way. Spin them in a certain way. Its part of the troubling pattern i think on the part frt attorney general. And i will say, you know, we dont know when he says there are troubling irregularities, we do not know if hes talking hifshl historically. We dont know if hes troefrg this case. There clearly are irregularities with respect to this case. The question is if hes casting an aspersion that hes trying to claim these problems are systemic and have gone on for years and years and so talth happened on my watch i cant be responsible for problems that have been festering in this prison for many decades. Well see if thats where he go but dont be surpriseed if that is where we go. Mimi, New York Times reporting that this means that prosecutors will probably start concentrating more heavily on the Financial Life of Jeffrey Epstein since they cant prosecute any of these criminal cases against him. We have another report in the New York Times tonight from james stewart. He reports of an interview he had with epstein last year where epstein points to a picture saying thats mbs, referring to mohammad bin salman, the crown prince of saudi arabia. The crown prince had visited him many times and they spoke often, mr. Epstein said. Mimi, if thats true, thats just one indicator of the kinds of people who may be exposed in the continuing of this investigation. Yeah. Look, the fact that joffrey berman put out a statement on saturday, thats unusual for them to put out a statement at all about a case so quickly over a weekend, and the fact that he made that point about there being a conspiracy and were going to continue investigating and we want victims to come forward, i dont think he would have done that if there were just sort of lets throw it up and see what happens. That would be pretty risky on his part. They clearly have already i think some idea where this is going in terms of coconspirators. Whether that turns out to be ghislaine i cant pronounce her name. Maxwe maxwe maxwell. And other more highprofile people i dont know. But they are going to keep pursuing this i think criminally and civilly in terms of forfeiture of his assets. The u. S. Attorney said to mimis point on saturday oto those brave young women who have already come forward and to the many others who have yet to do so, let me reiterate that we remain committed to standing for you in our investigation of the investigation of the conduct charged in the indictment, which included a conspiracy count, remains ongoing. So john, thats the essence of what we know continues. Conspiracies are rarely conduct add loan. Conspiracies usually involve coconspirators, and we have some idea about the people who were close to Jeffrey Epstein. Miss maxwell is one of the people pointed to frequently. It is the case not being a lawyer but having listened to a lot of smart lawyers over the weekend that the one positive element of then tire thing and there are really its obviously a really dark furnish of events. But the notion that there will no longer be standing or the ability to challenge the searches of all of geoffrey epsteins properties, of all of his bank records, that he wont have lawyers who have stabbed g i standing to fight, so if there are cases that will be brought against coconspirators it should be for a committed set of prosecutors easier to get evidence of that conspiracy than it would have been previously with Jeffrey Epsteins lawyers fighting at every turn. And that will be one of the tests of whether or not this investigation is serious or not. Are we now going to see prosecutors or investigators just ransacking every l Jeffrey Epsteins life in order to try to find whatever evidence exists of anyone who is complicit whether theyre a coconspirator or just complicit in this behavior because that is what the victims are owed. Mimi, are we going to know how Jeffrey Epstein died and why he died and whos responsible . Well, look, the inspector generals report i think they generally make their findings public. And her reasonably independent from bill barr although part of the department of justice. I think we have a good chance of knowing that. The fbi investigation and by the way, im not casting aspersions on the fbi agents themselves. This is about barr overseeing it. That if its a criminal investigation we would only know about if they brought criminal charges against someone. And i think its just too early to say that. I think also through House Oversight we will get some answers. So yes, i think we will get the answers. I think its probably going to take longer than people want, which is why bill barr should not be doing what hes doing already, which is putting out a few little select cryptic facts with his spin on it. And pointing downward with the glam. Mimi rocah and john heilemann, thank you both for starting us off tonight. When we come back, lisa bloom will join us. She represents some of the women who have been who have lawsuits pending against Jeffrey Epstein for his conduct for his conduct with them. She will join us next. R his conduct with them. She will join us next. Limu emu doug look limu. A civilian buying a new car. Lets go. Limus right. Liberty mutual can save you money by customizing your Car Insurance, so you only pay for what you need. Oh. Yeah, ive been a customer for years. Huh. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. [ gi ling ] let[ doorbell ]up. [ slap ] your nails xfinity home. Cameras. Xfinity home. Disarm the system. Doors open. Morning. Welcome to the neighborhood. Do you like my work . Secure your home with x1 voice control. And rest easy knowing you have professional monitoring backing you up. Awarded top pick by cnet. Demo at an xfinity store, call or go online today. Xfinity home. Simple. Easy. Awesome. The criminal case against epstein died when he did. Those are the words of nyu law professor steven gellers. The criminal case of the United States of america versus Jeffrey Epstein is over, but civil lawsuits brought against Jeffrey Epstein can continue against Jeffrey Epsteins estate. For more on the civil cases we turn to our next guest, attorney lisa bloom who has been handling some of the civil lawsuits against Jeffrey Epstein. Lisa, thank you very much for joining us tonight. What happens to your cases now . Well, we are filing this week on behalf of two Jeffrey Epstein victims. Ive heard from about five more over the weekend. Our clients for the last few weeks before his death, we decided it was more important to cooperate with the criminal investigation. And so thats what we were doing. We thought that should have priority. Now that hes passed away theres no reason why we shouldnt go forward with the civil case. I want everybody to know that civil cases can go forward even after the defendant dies. You simply proceed against the estate of the person who died. And theres a wonderful coincidence which is that in the state of new york this week a window is opening up of an extended statute of limitations, which means more time to sue if you were a victim of child sexual abuse, you can now sue up to age 55 for child sexual abuse that happened at any time. That window is going to open on wednesday and its going to be open for one year. So anybody who has claims against epstein for child sexual abuse should certainly speak to a lawyer as soon as possible. Now, in lawsuits like this the normal discovery procedure at some point would include a subpoena to depose the defendant. You would have had Jeffrey Epstein under oath in a deposition at some point. Thats testimony that in a criminal case they cannot compel. But now youve lost that opportunity also. What other discovery methods do you have . Thats okay. I dont mind losing that opportunity. Thats one less witness to contradict what my clients will say. I dont know if there will be anybody on the defense side to contradict what my clients will say. But youre right, lawrence, that in filing a civil suit one of the big advantages besides Getting Compensation for my clients, which i think is very importa important, is the subpoena power. That i will have the power to require people, not just the estate but third parties to answer my questions under oath in depositions, give me documents and information, and thats something thats very important to my clients as well, is getting answers as to how this happened. And if others were responsible, if others were enablers, they could certainly be brought into the civil case as well. What do you anticipate in terms of cooperation for your cases from the federal prosecutors in new york . Also from the criminal investigators in florida. Well, id expect cooperation. I mean, why not . Weve seen been cooperating with them now that mr. Epstein is deceased. I dont see any reason why we shouldnt cooperate. I also think its possible, call me maybe overly optimistic, its possible that mr. Epsteins estate might decide to do the right thing by the victims and waive legal technicalities like statutes of limitations for victims who are over the age of 18 and actually just dot right thing, set up a fund for victims, do what he was never able to do in life and that is show some respect for the victims, compensate them for their injuries, let them come forward with kredible claims, show how theyve been damaged, show how their careers have been derailed, their relationships ruined, their Mental Health displayed, and compensate them, do the right thing, dont fight them. Are there precedents in cases like this of the federal government basically handing over their investigative product to civil attorneys after the defendant in a federal criminal case has died . Thats a great question, and i dont know the answer to that question. I think we have made freedom of information requests in other cases to Law Enforcement. I have many cases where we accuse highprofile individuals like bill cosby, for example, bill oreilly, many others, and when theyre accused and sometimes theres Law Enforcement implications as well. We can get the files sometimes redacted. It again, in this case i dont see any reason now that hes gone why we shouldnt get anything. Why redact . Theres really no more privacy interests involved. Lisa bloom, thank you very much for joining us tonight. Really appreciate it. Thank you. When we come back, an analysis by the New York Times shows that the el paso mass murderer wasnt just echoing Donald Trumps words. He was echoing the words of the trumpsupporting media. Especially that word invasion. A New York Times Analysis Shows how the trumpsupporting media has been pumping out that language to the el paso mass murderer and others. Rent. Were all unique in our own ways. Somos muy diferentes. 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Today those words appeared on the front page of the New York Times in an extensive analysis by the times of the similarity of language used on fox news with the language used by the el paso mass murderer in his writings. What he called an invasion at our southern border. A New York Times analysis of fox news and other trumpsupporting Media Outlets found hundreds of examples of language, ideas, and ideologies that overlapped with the mass killers written statement of a shared vocabulary of intolerance that stokes fears centered on immigrants of color. The times found more than 300 fox news references to an immigrant invasion since last year alone. Here is video compiled by the New York Times. Were being invaded. The invasion of illegal immigrants. The fact of the matter is that this is an attempted invasion of our country. We have all these minors from Central America flooding the border. Multiculturism isnt real. This is really destroying one culture and replacing it with a new foreign culture. This is not migrants coming into the country. This is nothing short of an invasion. Democrats who want to replace you the American Voters with newly ammest esnestied citizens. This is a government sanctioned invasion of ocountry. As the New York Times reports the portrayal of immigration as a menace has returned with force, a shift brought on not just by raid yeh and tv hosts but by Republican Leaders in congress and the president himself. After this break, Maria Hinojosa will join our discussion. Most people think a button is just a button. That a speaker is just a speaker. Or that the journey cant be the destination. Most people havent driven a lincoln. Discover the lincoln approach to craftsmanship at the lincoln summer invitation. Right now, get 0 apr on all 2019 lincoln vehicles plus no payments for up to 90 days. Only at your lincoln dealer. Plus no payments hi, do you have a travel card . 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Some side effects can lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. I discovered the potential with ozempic®. Oh oh oh ozempic® announcer if eligible, you may pay as little as 25 per prescription. Ask your Health Care Provider today about onceweekly ozempic®. Donald trump does not know what an invasion is. Hes never seen one. Hes not related to anyone who fought on the american side in world war ii. He doesnt know what happened on dday. He doesnt know what the word invasion means and that has something to do with the way he uses the word. Heres something he said in one of his rallies in grand rapids, michigan. He said, its an invasion. You know that . I say invasion and they say isnt that terrible . Yes, we do. And then he said, i dont know what these people are thinking. Joining us now, Maria Hinojosa, anchor and executive producer of the public radio show latino usa. Maria, what are you thinking when you hear donald trump say invasion, when you see this article on the front page of the New York Times with the way fox news has pumped this word invasion into this mass murderer in el paso, who is 21 years old, lets remember . So hes heard donald trump talk invasion since he was in high school. Hes heard this language since he was in Junior High School developing out there. And heres donald trump saying whats wrong with saying invasion . You know, when you just when you said it, lawrence, i was like especially because you said he said it in michigan. I grew up in chicago. Like my family is who hes talking about. So one of the things i do as a journalist is of course im always talking to people. So ill say look, when donald trump is talking about 34ex cannes and invacation hes talking about me. And theyll be like no, not you. And ill be like, well, my entire family wasnt born in this country. Were immigrants. So and my father was a professional. Hes a medical doctor. So somebody could say he was taking somebodys job away. But this is who we are. Look at me. And i say look at me because this is who we are. And in a way what weve had to do in the horror of el paso is were having to like be on this little what is it . The mouse thing thats going were trying to prove our humanity. Constantly. Whereas this president , everything about him is really focused on a tackiness. It feels inkong ruse because its like guys, just like you im an american citizen. What is this thing about an American Invasion . And i want to tell you something, lawrence because you and i spoke last week when i was in el paso. We crossed the border into mexico. There were people waiting in line. This is a new phenomenon since donald trump. They were waiting in line to cross into the United States. Theyre in mexico. I saw about 50 people. I saw lots of children. Lots of toddlers. I saw babies. Infants. And i walked up to these people very calmly because i didnt want to alarm them. But i said, have you heard anything about whats happening in the United States regarding people like you who are seeking Refugee Status and who have children . And they were like, no. No. Have you heard any stories about children or babies being taken away . No. That couldnt you know, thats impossible in the United States. These are not people who are coming to invade. These are not people that have an agenda thats kind of like now lets go into the United States and these are people who are suffering. But the rob with the Trump Administration is probably no one has actually gone and looked in these peoples eyes and had a conversation with them. So they dont have information about whats happening on this side of the border and whats happening to parents and children on this side of the border . I mean, it wasnt shocking because i dont buy into this notion that this white house puts out which is that the caravans and the people that this is all one massive, you know, big ploy to take over look, i have been talking to immigrants for the entirety of my life because i am one. This is the same thing i said to Samuel Huntington from harvard university, who wrote a seminal book saying basically those are them and theyre not us. And i said, in all of my time talking to immigrants not once, lawrence, not once has anyone said mmhmm, im coming to take over, im coming to invade. So this is an illusion that has been created and propagated. But its not based on reality. And i say this to the people who are watching. Talk to your neighbors. Talk to the people who work with you. Ask them. If you say it with love and without asking them to show their papers theyre going to respond to you and be like inswlarks are yi invasi invasion, what are you talking about . I want your reaction to the Trump Administrations announcement today that theyre going to tighten the rules around immigrants in this country in any way relying on federal benefits government benefits of any kind. There are already rules about that but they want to narrow and tighten the interpretation zone. I just dont the messaging is very clear for immigrants. And certainly when we talk immigrants, i mean, immigrants could be you, could be me. Its anybody, right . Its of all races. But in specific just kind of after el paso, after mississippi, after the president saying lets have more raids, and hen its like and guess what, even those of you who have green cards, nothing for you. Its distressing. You know, when they dont want to provide health care, for example, to undocumented immigrants, im like, hmm, thats really smart. Not giving health care to the people who are picking your fruit, making your food in the restaurants, serving it to you, delivering it to you, but you dont want them to have health care. So what they dont understand is the way in which this backfires. But its another way in which the message is clear, we dont want you hear. Maria hinojosa, thank you very much for being here. Its good talking to you. Always a pleasure. Thanks for joining us. And when we come back, a former trump supporter now thinks that the Republican Party should find a new president ial candidate for 2020. He doesnt seem to know that there already is one, former republican Massachusetts Governor bill weld is running for president. And he will join us. In us. ding hey, who are you . Oh, hey jeff, im a car thief. What . im here to steal your car because, well, thats my job. What . What . . What . laughing what . . What . what . [crash] what . haha, it happens. 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And on this one ive got to admit donald trump is absolutely right when he tweeted today scaramucci, who like so many others had nothing to do with my election victory, is only upset that i didnt want him back in the administration where he desperately wanted to be. List seldom had time to return his many calls to me. He just wanted to be on tv, exclamation point. And then came this in a bloomberg report. He worked at the white house for less than two weeks and is certainly no expert on this president. White house spokeswoman Stephanie Grisham said this is all so selfserving on his part and the media plays right into it and this will surely be the only time that i agree with the current White House Press secretary. Anthony scaramucci is a lying fraud who supported a lying fraud for president. He then won a power struggle with the other lying frauds working in the white house at the time and got himself appointed White House Communications director, a job he was fired from before he could actually start the job because of an interview that he gave to the new yorker in which he announced his plans for the white house staff. Im going to fire every one of them. The entire place will be fired over the next two weeks. He also said to the new yorker when comparing himself very favorably to steve bannon, im not trying to blank my own blank. Now, remember, Anthony Scaramucci lies about everything. So it is entirely possible that he was and continues to try to blank his own blank. Anthony scaramucci has never appeared on this program because he is one of the most ridiculous characters in the trump freak show and he is a proven liar and proven liars arent welcome here, especially the clowniest of the clowns in the trump world. Anthony scaramuccis break with the president , if it holds, which is actually unlikely because this is scaramucci were talking about, will mean the loss of at most one trump vote in the state of new york, which donald trump is going to lose anyway. The words Anthony Scaramucci have always meant absolutely nothing in american politics and they always will. His new claim that he is looking for a republican to challenge donald trump for the republican nomination means that he remains so flawlessly ignorant about american politics that he doesnt even know that donald trump already has a serious republican primary challenger, the former republican governor of william weld, who will join our discussion here after this break. Here after this break. Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance, so you only pay for what you need. Nice but uh, whats up with your partner . Oh we just spend all day telling everyone how we customize Car Insurance because no two people are alike, so. 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It sounds like kate miller is ready to hear from you when you get to iowa. Well, i hope thats so, lawrence, and i hope that maybe next time youll tell us what you really think about Anthony Scaramucci. But seriously, i think the mooch may have settled on a valuable metaphor, durable metaphor in chernobyl, because that suggests the idea of a meltdown, or whatever you call it, meltdown or unhinged or untethered. I do sense a rumbling there that the president has been obliged to spend so much time dealing with things inside his own head, notably the emotions of anger and fear that, you know, it may be at some point in the nottoodistant future, hes going to seemingly be overwhelmed by the demands of his job. And as you know, i think hes going pho lose by a lot next year, and i think partly its because the u. S. House has to recognize they dont give advisory opinions. They need real facts so they need a real investigation to get real facts, and that takes eight or ten good months, not good months for mr. Trump. Governor, when you were governor of massachusetts in the early 1990s, you supported an assault weapons ban there. In the aftermath now last week of dayton and of el paso, do you think you can argue an assault weapons ban to republican primary voters . I think when people say assault weapons, a lot of them even automatic weapons, and those are, as you know, already illegal. You have to be a federally licensed Firearms Dealer to own a fully automatic weapon. Im tired of all this talk about universal background checks on steroids. People are even talking about licensing all weapons out there. There are 300 million rifles out there in private hands, and you know me, lawrence, i kind of tend toward the libertarian side. I regard private gun ownership as kind of a bulwark against possible government overreaching. If you look at history, hitler makes it impossible for the juice to own firearms, and when the knock on the door comes, they cant resist. They go to concentration camps. He killed everyone who wasnt part of his coalition. I do think red flags and hooks to signs of Mental Illness or reports of violence by a coworker or family member, thats fine. In this country you can get in front of a judge in six hours, and a judge can decide whether the person is a danger to themselves or others, and i think that would be a much more direct way to go at these Mass Shootings than saying, we want to license 300 million rifles. Well, the licensing argument is about sales that go on now. In order to go to a weapons store and purchase something now, you would have to be licensed to do that. In some of the proposals you would have to be insured. Just like an automobile. Just like if you get a new car tomorrow, what you have to do with a new car. There are plenty of people that have old cars in the backyard that arent registered. Nobody is saying they have to register those. Yeah, thats right. When i got my first shotgun, i sure as hell had to take a hunter safety course, so im not saying you cant put any conditions on the acquisition of firearms. But i do want to point out that throughout history, when the government has imposed stringent conditions upon the mere ownership of firearms, having nothing to do with safety or violence or threats. That has often ended in disaster. So gun ownership by itself should not be the focus here. But no one is talking about guns in general, theyre talking about these particular kinds of weapons, these highpowered weapons that can fire so many bullets with those magazines. Theyre not talking about revolvers, theyre not talking about handguns you said another magic word, which is magazine. One of these two fellows who did the shooting over the weekend was Walking Around downtown with a magazine holding 100 rounds. No, thats not a godgiven right. But going after just pure rifle or shotgun by iftself, even if its a fiveshot semiautomatic, the ar15 is a standard u. S. Military rifle. People do use fiveshot rifles in hunting. That does not shock my conscience as a weapon. If you make it fully automatic by removing a pin, i used to prosecute people for that. Thats a crime, because that transforms it into an automatic weapon. But i dont think thats all well understood, but i do think that the conversation is healthy because i think the red flag laws where people can get an injunction from a judge or an order that someone surrender their weapon if they have a sufficient history of violence or violent tendencies. Like one of these guys carried around a list in high school of people he wanted to kill. There was one of the terrible cases two years ago where the fbi had open investigations on the fellow who committed the crimes twice and had to close them because there was a rule then that you had to close a case in six months. Thats not how the criminal Justice System works. It takes longer than that often to build these cases. But focusing on people, you know, the potential people involved, i think, is the shortest way to get there. Governor weld, we havent just run out of time, weve gone into overtime. We have to get out of here. Thank you very much for joining us and please let Anthony Scaramucci know that you are running for president as a republican. I will call him tomorrow. Thank you. That is tonights last word. The 11th hour with Brian Williams starts now. Tonight, two years to the day after that nazi march and the deadly violence in charlottesville, the president has called out for