Consequential as the nixon tape. Plus governor jay inslee on his big climate announcement today. And the absurdity of the electability argument when it comes to the democratic primary when all in starts right now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. Today the president called the man who orchestrated the criminal sabotage of his political opponent in the 2016 election to joke about how they got away with it. Earlier this morning, the president spoke with president putin. They had a very good discussion, spoke for a little over an hour. Just one week ago, trumps own fbi director chris wray warned that russia has continued to meddle in u. S. Elections and also has big plans for 2020. Were very much viewing 2018 as just kind of a dress rehearsal for the big show, 2020. Mueller reportedly laid out in excruciating detail the way the would benefit from a Trump Presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and the Trump Campaign expected it would benefit electorally. Trump took to twitter after todays call to dismiss what he called the, quote, russian hoax and pointedly declined to tell putin not to interfere in 2020. Mr. President , did you address the election meddling issues that came up in the Mueller Report with putin today . We discussed it. Actually, he sort of smiled when he said something to the effect that it started off as a mountain, and it ended up being a mouse. But he knew that because he knew there was no collusion whatsoever. So pretty much thats what it was. Did you tell him not to meddle, mr. President . Did you tell him not to meddle in the next election . Excuse me. Im talking. Im answering this question. You are very rude. So we had a good conversation about many different things, okay . Did you ask him not to meddle . We didnt discuss that. Really we didnt discuss it. I mean of course they didnt discuss that. The president was very clearly happy russia interfered the last time, and every single thing he said and done since suggests hes absolutely hoping they do it again. Why would he tell him not to do it . The only possible, very thin reed of an excuse for the behavior of the president and his campaign in 2016 is that he and all his aides were just too darn stupid to understand what was happening. That cannot be said now. They know what is happening, and they are doing it again. They dont need a secret back channel. They dont need secret messages. Trump colludes with putin out in the open. He effectively invites the russians to keep subverting our democracy so long as it benefits trump. Would you now, with the whole world watching, tell president putin would you denounce what happened in 2016, and would you warn him to never do it again . I have president putin. He just said its not russia. I will say this. I dont see any reason why it would be. I will tell you that president putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today. So strong, so powerful in that denial. Trump isnt even bothering to change the playbook. I mean part of his 2016 strategy, the main part of it, was to leverage russian involvement and russian criminal sabotage against his opponent to further a narrative that his opponent is corrupt. Russia, if youre listening, i hope youre able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. Now, this just came out. This just came out. Wikileaks i love wikileaks. Hes doing the exact same thing. They are running the exact same plate in front of our eyes this time around. This week, the New York Times reported that Rudy Giuliani spearheaded a successful Pressure Campaign to get the Ukrainian Government, perhaps with some understanding of favorable treatment from the white house, to reopen an investigation tied to joe bidens son. It is a blatant move to use a foreign power to tarnish trumps potential general election opponent and to provide ammo for trump to stand onstage next year at the Republican National convention and lead a chant of lock him up. Joining me now, brian boitler, who has a fantastic new piece entitled democrats green light trumps authoritarian ambitions. You sort of wrote a piece about how its happening again. What was the thrust of your argument . The thrust of the argument is if i underplayed one thing, is that what happened in 2016 happened when trump didnt have the powers of the presidency behind him. But now he can kind of send Rudy Giuliani to do this kind of freelance collusion with any country that he wants that will play ball, right . And right now hes most concerned about joe biden. He thinks joe biden has the best chance of beating him. So he sends Rudy Giuliani to kind of gin up some kind of Corruption Scandal in ukraine involving joe bidens son. Simultaneously he speaks to his own attorney general, william barr, to look into the evidence that the Ukrainian Government is supposedly collecting on joe biden son so that there can be a u. S. Side investigation of it, and then he can say that, just like Hillary Clinton was under investigation, joe biden is under investigation. So it works just on both ends just exactly as it did in 2016 with foreign meddling in the election that trump is welcoming or, in this case, even soliciting. Soliciting before our eyes, right . And then, you know, a federal criminal investigation of his opponent this time ordered by him in a corrupt way by his own attorney general, who has shown all the willingness in the world to do it for him. Mr. Trump in turn recently suggested this is trump that he would like william barr to look into the material gathered by the ukrainian prosecutors, echoing repeated calls from mr. Giuliani. This is him turning lock her up into actionable u. S. Abuse of power from the white house against someone he perceives as a political opponent. Yeah, thats absolutely right. And the thing is that theres no reason why it cant work. And i mean the goal for him isnt necessarily to defeat biden in the general election. He probably just doesnt want to have to run against biden. If he can get this out of the way quick enough, he can move on to the next candidate. Thats only half the strategy now. Its really striking to me the day after he fires comey, what does he do . He sits down with the Russian Foreign minister and the Russian Ambassador to say, glad we got rid of that, which that may be t the text. But the subtext is okay . And then what does he do, you know, once the Mueller Report comes out and once barr has done his turn on capitol hill and snubbed his nose at the house . He calls Vladimir Putin to basically be like, yeah, were on the same page. The cloud has been lifted. I want to bring in julia ioffe who wrote after the helsinki summit last year about what putin has on trump. How do you perceive this call today in the broader contours of what seems to me not even kind of like secret back channel. Just like an obvious winkwinknudgenudge tacit understanding between these two men about exactly what their shared interests are. Yeah. I mean just, you know, the phrasing that they agreed there was no collusion was just its hilarious. I have no words because my jaw fell off. So even if i had words, i wouldnt be able to form them. Its really just stunning. I think, you know, basically the handcuffs are off. You know, the line in moscow was that trump was, you know, had his hands bound by the investigation, that he was afraid to talk to putin, afraid to make overtures to russia, afraid to kind of thaw the relationship because of the Mueller Investigation and that any kind of overture to russia would look suspicious. Now, you know, all the constraints are off, and this is the result. You know, it was kind of inevitable that Something Like this at least this time it wasnt a phone call. At least it was just a phone call. It wasnt our president standing next to an actual foreign adversary and saying, like, i trust him. Right. Although im sure thats going to be coming in the next couple months. Theres also the way to sort of think about what happened before our eyes, to me, this is also just a green light, a very clear green light, and almost a kind of targeted public arrowpointing of like, hey, russia, if you want to direct the grus resources somewhere, maybe go snooping around the bidens inbox. It seems so obvious in the context. Look what happened. Robert mueller released a report that didnt necessarily say what happened in 2016 was legal but that you can get away with it if youre just, you know, helter skelter enough about it. So he doesnt have a disincentive legally speaking. He dunts have a disincentive from congress because democrats dont seem to want to meet the degree of abuse of power hes d demonstrating with power of their own. So theres no disincentive for him at all, and every incentive because last time it hippelped win the president sy. I dont find myself surprised by it given the backdrop. Julia . This is kind of the worst case scenario, and its playing out within the two weeks that the Mueller Report came out, right . We were all wondering what would happen in 2020 if this is what the russians did in 2016. Well, now we know. In 2016, it was kind of maybe unclear. Why was it in russias benefit or putins interest to elect donald trump . Now we know. Its very clear. Today they talked about opening up trade, opening up investment. Money, money, money, money. Trump said at this press conference that he wants to do more business with russia, which is i mean we barely have any business with russia. In fact, we have a lot of sanctions out on russia. Yes. Theres a reason right now. Right. In part because of what putin did in 2016. And now, again, the gloves are off. The constraints are off. His hands are untied, and he can already like i will trade with you. I will lift sanctions. Now its very clear why putin would want to see a second term of donald trump. The gloves arent off in the sense hes constrained by the fact that hes been overridden by his own National Security apparatus, by the people that work for him, by congress where is that National Security apparatus now . Mattis is gone. Tillerson is gone. H. R. Mcmaster is gone. John bolton is sitting there trying to go to war against venezuela where theres like a bunch of Russian Troops or russian arms at least. Yeah, but i think that honestly if its between john bolton and Vladimir Putin exactly. I worry the moneys on putin on that. Yeah. Actually maybe in the weird way to the benefit of everyone on the narrow issue of venezuela. Brian and julia, thank you both for being with me. Thank you. I now want to turn to one of the House Democrats trying to figure out how to deal with all th that. Thats congressman joe na gus. Let me ask you an abstract question first. Is the president would the president , any president , ordering a criminal investigation of a political opponent be itself on its face impeachable . I mean i certainly think that to the extent the president of the United States is ordering a criminal investigation into a political opponent and doing so with a corrupt intent, i would think that that would be something that would potentially be impeachable. This New York Times reporting the president has sort of urged barr to look into findings by the ukrainian prosecutor, the fact that we can sort of see barr as essentially a kind of lead blocker for the president. I mean how concerned are you about right now the integrity of that department of justice . Im deeply concerned about the integrity of the department of justice. What i would say, i red brians article and the underlying premise of the article, which is the congress has a constitutional obligation and responsibility to hold the president accountable in an appropriate way, and absent doing so, i think one can worry about whether or not we are setting a dangerous precedent for not just this president , but obviously for future president s. You see this happening in realtime with respect to the way in which the attorney general has handled the events of the past 30 days, right . Obviously from the misleading statements that he made in front of congress, his efforts to mislead the American Public about the findings and conclusions of the Mueller Report, leading up to obviously snubbing, not showing up to the hearing before our committee, the Judiciary Committee in the house, just yesterday and obviously ignoring a lawful and duly issued subpoena issued by the Judiciary Committee for the full Mueller Report in an unredacted fashion for members of congress. Look, at the end of the day, i think were going to have to take steps to ensure that we hold this administration accountable. Ive said that we should proceed with a contempt citation against the department of justice and against the attorney general absent his willingness to engage in good faith, which as you know, the chairman of our Committee Just today kind of made a last effort to try to get the attorney general to see the light. Two questions. One is how much of barrs actions changed minds just within the democratic members of that Judiciary Committee . Like are you responding is it moving what youre thinking about what you may have to do based on his actions . Yes, i think it is. I think it is impacting not just certainly the way in which i approach the work ahead but also other members in the congress, and i would also say, chris, the American Public. I mean i have had a lot of conversations of course over the last several days with folks who are just completely disturbed by the wholesale obstruction of congress that this administration and this attorney general seem to be engaged in. So, yeah, i think youve hit the nail on the head. Is anyone talking about the possibility of impeachment proceedings against barr . And i only ask that because obviously that is a constitutional remedy not just for the president of the United States. Its a constitutional remedy for members of the judiciary and the cabinet and both of those have been used at different times in american history. Right now theres a question of how barr is held accountable. Is that something that people are discussing . Yeah. I mean i think there have been a number of people in the caucus who have called for those proceedings to commence against the attorney general. Im sure as you know, being a history buff of sorts, that the last time has happened, its been almost 150 years since a cabinet official has been impeached. Look, from my vantage point, i think the important part of our work ahead would be twofold. One, to exact compliance from the department of justice. I think the way you do that is following the next step, which is to say proceeding with a conce contempt citation, issuing a subpoena to the attorney general so he appears before the committee and answers the questions that we are authorized to pose to him. Secondarily and perhaps even more importantly, doing everything we can to make sure that the special counsel appears before our committee so that he can talk to not just the Judiciary Committee but to the american people. I am very concerned, to your point, about the prospect for meddling in the next election by a foreign adversary, primarily russia. And i think its important for the special counsel to have the opportunity to detail the findings that he ultimately reached in volume one of the report. Right. Which because of the confusion kind of created by the attorney general, i think have been lost to some extent in the last few weeks. Are you confident that you will have mueller before your committee . I certainly hope so, and were certainly going to take every in my view, i think we should take every legal step we can to ensure we hear from the special counsel. And i would hope that the department of justice would not engage in the type of obstruction that theyve already engaged in. Obviously, well have to see in the next i hope that that happens in short order. I think there will be more to share, we hope, next week on that front. All right, congressman. Thank you for being with me. Thank you, chris. Next, Robert Muellers equivalent of the watergate tapes perhaps. The detailed notes taken by a white house aide. What the insider account tells us about the president s actions in two minutes. Es its tough to quit smoking cold turkey. So chantix can help you quit slow turkey. Along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. With chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, youll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. When you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. Stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or lifethreatening allergic and skin reactions. Decrease alcohol use. Use caution driving or operating machinery. Tell your doctor if youve had Mental Health problems. The most common side effect is nausea. Talk to your doctor about chantix. Comedy of errors. The hapless bunch of stuff that happened. On august 5th, 1974, following an order from the supreme court, the white house released a transcript of the socalled smoking gun tape that showed Richard Nixon helping to plot the watergate coverup. Just three days later, nixon announced his decision to resign from the presidency. It took hard evidence of the president attempting to obstruct justice to turn Public Opinion and force him from office. Its been an open question whether Robert Mueller would ever be able to find such evidence against the current president if it existed because the president is known not to write emails and does not as far as we know maintain a secret recording system in the oval office. But as the Washington Posts Carol Leonnig pointed out, extensive notes taken by Annie Donaldson, who served as chief of staff to don mcgahn. Carol leonnig joins me now. Tell us about who Annie Donaldson is and what role she plays in the saga. Shes a loyal lawyer, diehard conservative, a person who came into the office with every goal of trying to help donald trump implement his agenda, but also very loyal to don mcgahn, the white house counsel, who she followed into the administration. She had been an associate of his at a law firm, jones day, and was the person he tapped and trusted to manage the office for him and to also be a scribe for important moments inside the oval office that were very disconcerting to don mcgahn. Why were these notes taken . My sense is theres a culture of notetaking that happens in the trump administration, memorializing memos. Why . Well, i actually differ with this a little bit. Ive heard a lot of people talking about the reasons people take notes. Good lawyers take notes. Right. They all take notes. Its like being a reporter. You cant remember what someone told you and whats important unless you write it down. There were people who tried to memorialize events, memo to file, to use comeys term, because he was worried he was going to need a contemporaneous record of what he and the president discussed that worried him. In this case, mcgahn is definitely trying to keep a record along with his chief of staff, Annie Donaldson, and it surely is to show the efforts to keep the president within the guardrails, so to speak, to avoid the impulses that lead him to do things that look criminal. So certainly that was part of the motive. But the other one is just basic. Right. You know, annie had to keep notes. I mean how key are these notes basically to what mueller was able to find and what weve learned . So the notes are incredibly important in at least two of the episodes out of ten that mueller investigated, chris. Remember he found his team found substantial evidence to potentially bring a case of obstruction in four of the ten episodes they investigated. And annies notes are important in many of them, but particularly in two involving don mcgahn. The first one is in june of 2017 when the president is urging don twice, in two phone calls to his home, urging him to reach out to the justice departments seniormost officials and try to help remove argue that bob mueller should be removed as special counsel, right, because hes got conflicts of interest. And mcgahn doesnt think these conflicts make any sense, and hes trying to explain to the president , you dont want to do this. Its going to look like meddling. It looks like youre trying to knock off mueller. The second is in february of 2018 when the president angrily summons mcgahn to his office and says, the New York Times is reporting that and now the Washington Post as well is reporting that i ordered you to fire mueller. I never did that. I want you to correct the record. And don mcgahn stands his ground and says, you know, im sorry, mr. President. Thats kind of how i took it. Those notes of annies are also really important because they help concretize that don was sticking with that. So theres contemporaneous recordings of both those incidents which end up being part of the key evidence of two of ten incidents of possible obstruction. But two incidents that have substantial evidence of the president s intent. All right. Great piece. Thank you very much. Thank you, chris. Coming up, president ial candidate jay inslee on his plan to tackle one of the most important issues for 2020 voters, possibly the most important issue. His new climate proposal is next. Re. Go to the pharmacy counter for powerful claritind. While the leading allergy spray only relieves 6 symptoms, claritind relieves 8, including sinus congestion and pressure. Claritind relieves more. Hi, whats this Social Security alert . Its a free alert if we find your Social Security number on the dark web. Good, cuz im a little worried about my information getting out. Whys that . 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I decided on my death bed i wanted to be able to look at my three grandkids in the eye and tell them that i did everything humanly possible to rescue them from the monster of Climate Change. And that means running for president of the United States. Washington governor, democratic candidate for president jay inslee today out there in california, outlined a pretty bold plan to radically decarbonize the American Economy over the next two decades. A new poll out this week shows the primary elected is focused never, ever before on the issue of Climate Change. 82 of democrats listed Climate Change as a top priority, which was the highest number for any single issue. Inslees plan is, well, to put it mildly, aggressive. The governor said he would mandate that all electric energy needs to be emissionfree by 2035. Joining me now, washington governor and 2020 candidate jay inslee. What are the main ideas behind the plan . Well, the main idea is that this is a big, bold, ambitious plan because we are a big, bold, and ambitious nation. And its a cando nation. It needs a cando president. And basically this plan is based on four principles. One, its based on success, and its based on the success i have had as governor passing 100 clean electrical grid bill, passing a bill for energy efficiency, passing a bill to eliminate super pollutants. We need success. Second, its based on a multisectorle basis, so we have something tailored to each sector of our economy. Third, its concrete. It doesnt help us to have airy little dreams of future proposals. Thats my concern. This is concrete. These are enforceable rules, and its based on my two decades of work on this subject. So i think were ready for business. Talk about the enforceable rules. Is there a hard cap . Does it phase in over time . Theres a lot of talk of carrots right now and talk of sticks have gotten very out of fashion for some reason. Its hard to see decarbonizing without them. Listen, weve got a regulatory cap thats legally enforceable. We know the scientific reality is we are not going to be able to burn coal forever, so we have a hard cap in my state in 2025, a little later for the nation, so we will not have coalbased power. We have a cap that requires 100 Clean Electricity without fossil fuels in 2035. We have a hard and enforceable cap that we wont have internal combustion engines, at least not ones without biofuels, in 2030 to be sold after that date. These are enforceable measures. We need it. So 2035. So lets just talk about the grid. Is that a technically feasible thing . Forget about the country. Lets talk about your state, washington. Can you get rid of every carbon emitting source and keep the lights on in washington if you started now in the next 16 years . You bet. Heres the reason why. I think we have to understand how innovative and technologically adept a country we are. Heres an example. We had another existential threat decades ago. It was calls fascism. And in 1940, we built 77 jeeps. Four years later, we had built 640,000 jeeps. Thats the type of thing we can do when we put our minds to it. And right now the most rapidly growing segment of our Energy Economy is Renewable Energy. Jobs and Renewable Energy are growing twice as fast than the rest of the economy. We need to break the stranglehold of the fossil fuel industry and get down to business of building a clean Energy Economy. I know we can do it. When youre on the trail, you sort of announced as a climate candidate. You have run as a climate candidate. When youre out on the trail, obviously climate is front of mind for voters. I happen to think its the most important issue in a historical sense, but people got all sorts of stuff. Youve got an undocumented uncle who might get rounded up any second. Youve got health care bills. What are the interactions on the trail like visavis peoples general sense of what they want out of a president and what they want you to talk about versus climate . Well, i think they want i know they want, as you at the tom of your show indicated, they want something to defeat climate. Its all the issues, where were suffering billions of dollars of damage. Its health care where more people die from air pollution coming out of our cars than car wrecks. Its National Security because of mass migrations. But i also have a portfolio of success, first guy to stand up against trumps muslim ban. Ive sued him and won 21 times now. Ive got the best paid family leave, the highest minimum wage, the first net neutrality. Im the first governor to pass a longterm care plan, and now a public option and big, big teacher pay increases. So virtually everything many of the candidates are suggesting, ive accomplished in my state, and that is the advantage of being a governor who can actually get things done. I have to respond that the advantage of being governor with two democratic houses in the legislature, if im not mistaken. Well, you are mistaken. My first four years i had a republican senate. Yes. You now have both, right . I mean some of the big stuff, particularly on climate, has happened since you flipped them . Thats right. And we need to get rid of the filibuster in the senate. Thats why im the first candidate to say that because that artifact would stop us cold from getting Climate Change legislation, and i hope more of the other candidates will follow my lead on this. We need somebody that can actually get things done. Now, i have got bipartisan things done. The biggest education package let me stop you right there. Is anything bipartisan possible on climate at the scale and scope necessary that you and i agree on about the scale and scope . Is anything bipartisan possible with this Republican Party at the federal level . Well, i think there are many things we could do on a bipartisan basis. We might be able to find ways to sequester carbon in topsoil and in trees and the Forest Products industry. Those kind of things might have some bipartisan success. But, look, we got to get the republicans to lead, follow, or get out of the way. And right now theyre not leading and following, so they really need to get out of the way and let us move forward to the nations destiny to build a clean Energy Economy. All right. Governor jay inslee, 2020 president ial candidate, governor of washington state. Thanks so much for making the time. Thank you. Coming up, why the idea of a candidates supposed electability is, well, nonsense. Plus a future president ial candidate just talking to some youths about cocaine. Thats tonights thing one, thing two next. Steven could only imaginem 24hr to trenjoying a spicy taco. Burn, now, his world explodes with flavor. Nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for allday allnight protection. Can you imagine 24hours without heartburn . Each day justin at work. Walk. And after work. He does it all with dr. Scholls. Only dr. Scholls has massaging gel insoles that provide allday comfort. To keep him feeling more energized. Dr. Scholls. Born to move. Thing one tonight, it may only be 2019, but the 2020 campaign is already starting to get ugly. As old videos are dug up from campaigns past, perhaps none more shocking than this clip from the night of the New Hampshire primary, february 9th, 2016. The repositories of authority, the things people trust, believe in, the fairness of the game is doubted by large majorities of americans. A lot of that has to do with stagnating wages in the middle, but you see that play out in different ways in both trumps particularly closing message and railing against pharmaceutical companies and the like and Bernie Sanderss message from the beginning. Okay. I slipped up and called him bernie sandwiches. In my defense, we were in a restaurant and Howard Fineman was sitting in my line of sight eaching a pass trami sandwich. The next thing you know, bernie sandwiches is a thing. The good news is it did lead to one of the great iphone games of all time. Bernie, bernie, bernie sandwiches. Bernie sandwiches. Welcome, america. For the really good oppo, you got to go back way earlier than 2016, and thats thing two in 60 seconds. Plants capture co2. What if other kinds of plants captured it too . If these industrial plants had technology that captured carbon like trees we could help lower emissions. Carbon capture is Important Technology and experts agree. Thats why were working on ways to improve it. So plants. Can be a little more. Like plants. Long before he was a senator and president ial candidate, Bernie Sanders was a u. S. Congressman and long before that, he was the mayor of burlington, vermont. While he was mayor, bernie decided the best way to get his message out was to buy pass the media and be the media himself. He had Cable Access Television and a weekly show. It featured the mayor going around burlington and just talking to people, like the time he chatted about communism with a couple of local teens in the mall. Im kind of an anarchist, but communism doesnt bother me, like a true communism, where it just goes to no freedom of enterprise because then everybody gets a chance to live and be safe, you know . But when it goes as far as cutting down peoples freedom of speech, you know, thats not thats not i dont feel thats right. Youre distinguishing between what you mean as true communism as opposed to what exists in the soviet union. If youre thinking you need to see more of that, the folks at politico paid to have 30 hours of it digitized. May i suggest the episode where bernie talks to some young kids about the dangers of smoking. Does anyone know what cocaine does to you . Yes. What does it thats right. It screws up your mind, and it screws up your body. What about even smoking cigarettes . Who here smokes . Come on, raise your hand. Other than your parents. Me. I dont smoke. I dont smoke because im a little kid. Im only 5 years old. Goin down the only road ive ever known like a drifter i was born to walk alone keep goin man you got it if you ride, you get it. Here i go again geico motorcycle. 15 minutes could save you 15 or more. Nueven if you try to eat well,. You might fall short in key nutrients. Get more by adding one a day. Its the 1 multivitamin uniquely designed for men and women. One serving, once a day. One a day. And done. Essential for the cactus, but maybe not for people with rheumatoid arthritis. Because there are options. Like an unjection™. Xeljanz xr. A oncedaily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. Xeljanz xr can reduce pain, swelling and further joint damage, even without methotrexate. Xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma have happened. As have tears in the stomach or intestines, serious allergic reactions, low blood cell counts, higher liver tests and cholesterol levels. Dont start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. Your doctor should perform blood tests before and while taking xeljanz xr, and monitor certain liver tests. Tell your doctor if youve been somewhere fungal infections are common and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. Needles. Fine for some things. But for you, one pill a day may provide symptom relief. Ask your doctor about xeljanz xr. An unjection™. If you have a garden you know, weeds are lowdown little scoundrels. With roundup sure shot wand you dont need to stoop to their level. Draw the line. The sure shot wand extends with a protective shield to pinpoint those pesky bedfellows. It lets you kill whats bad right down to the root while comfortably guarding the good. Draw the line with the roundup sure shot wand. Roundup brand. Trusted for over 40 years. Number one is when the debt is paid, its paid. Its paid. Number two is that basic concept of forgiveness thats inside of each and every one of us because i havent found anyone yet who will raise their hand and say, i dont ever want to be forgiven for anything ive ever done, ever. One of the Great Stories in the midterm elections was people coming out to vote in florida, across party lines, across racial lines, to reenfranchise felonies who served their time, giving them the right to vote again. Floridas amendment 4 won by nearly 65 , a clear super majority. That guy you saw at the beginning is one of the organizers behind it. The Florida Voting Rights Coalition spearheaded by two convicted felons, a republican and democrat, advocated forrest oration of voting rights. That was the first act. That was the good news. The second act was republican lawmakers in the florida statehouse trying to undo it. They came up with the idea that when the amendment restores the right to vote to felons who completed, quote, all terms of their sentence including parole or probation, they should add to that court costs, fines, fees and restitution. Now, drafters of the amendment envisioned no such thing, and it was not in the text of what was on the ballot that 65 of people voted for. And this new obstacle thats been introduced puts at a minimum tens of thousands of people who have completed their sentence at risk of having their newly reinstated right to vote now stripped away. Two similar bills passed the gopcontrolled Florida House and Florida Senate this week, and today they passed a compromise bill that would give a judge the discretion to dismiss the fees and fines or convert those fees and fines to community service. But that process in and of itself could backlog courts, no the to mention the cost to petition the court shouldered by a person who has just been released back into society having served their time. Advocates like the man you saw above are now calling on the republican governor, ron desantis, to veto this bill. Now, keep in mind that without the bill, 1. 4 million felons who have completed their sentence would be free to vote in the next election. Critics are rightly calling this bill a modern day poll tax, paying money in order to vote. Very common practice in the jim crow south along with felon disenfranchisement which both grow out of the same tradition. Its yet another example of how republicans in the modern conservative movement are maximally dead set against expanding access to the ballot instead of making sure that everybody can vote, theyre still making sure some people cant. 200 indoor and outdoor allergens. Like those from buddy. Because stuffed animals are clearly no substitute for real ones. Feel the clarity. And live claritin clear. Yeah, ive had some prettyeer. Prestigious jobs over the years. News producer, executive transport manager, and a beverage distribution supervisor. Now im a director at a Security Software firm. Wow, youve been at it a long time. 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This leads to one big question as democrats discuss this increasingly. Does anyone know what electability means . Here to mull this over, host of serious xms woke af. And steve kornacki. Steve, let me start with you. Do you think it is lets start with the concept. Is it a coherent and nameable concept . It can be. Look, i think one thing that happens with electability is you often take the candidate you want to win for other reasons and say hey, by the way, this candidate came in. Thats a big part of it. Ive seen examples. You go back to bush, mccain, 2000 on the republican side. Mccain by the end of the race when he caught fire was outpolling bush against al gore, the democratic candidate that year. Mccain tried to make that case to republicans. You could look at the numbers and it was clear as day that mccain had a stronger chance. Bush was slightly ahead of gore in the polls and Republican Voters decided hey, you know what . Even in the face of a clear electability scenario, we prefer bush. Heres my feeling about electabili electability. Its only relevant at extreme parts of the spectrum. If people were like im going to make anthony weiner. Thats a bad idea. Once you get toward the people in the discussion, do you think theres distinguishable differentiation there . I dont. I talk to people every day. They tell me i dont care who the democratic nominee is. I just need somebody that can beat trump. When we talk about electabili electability they say i want to vote for the electable one. They just want to vote for someone. I dont think anyone has any distinguished idea. Serve excited about Kamala Harris after her presentation this week, and stumping barr, but at the end of the day, its like okay, well, can she go the long haul . Everybody likes biden until you find out he thought cheney was a decent guy, war criminal, but thats okay. Right now i dont know what we mean when we say electable. Do you want to have a beer with them or pull the lever for them . I think the problem is the polling suggests democratic voters are thinking about it a lot, but its a strange game of metamental modelling of what do other voters think of who others would vote for, not me . You have voters out there making straightforward, rational decisions. And in the real world that doesnt happen. I work for a guy in 08 who was a fresh was a new senator with a funny sounding name, barack obama. He certainly was not electable. Hillary clinton was the most electable candidate there. But listen, i think through the process of you running for president and you telling your story and putting your narrative out there, you are bringing more people bringing more people to you. I hate the story about electability. I really do hate the story about electability. It makes all the voters think that like us, like political strategists and pundits on television. They dont. Think they with their pocketbooks and hearts and values. That matters most. One of the things ive encountered, you do get end up with a lot of pundit voters. Youll go to a rally. These are the people that are the most high interest. The people going to a des moines event early in the caucus season. Youll ask them a question and theyll answer like well, i think joe biden can really appeal in the southwest pennsylvania. Theyre spouting back something they read somewhere. Its like what do you think . And i think thats a totally legitimate thing for activists, primary voters to do. In the old days these are party primaries. Parties need to think strategically and nominate candidates that can win general elections and implement the partys agenda. I think when you get into the electability question, its a question when you get closer to the election, not april the year before. When youre in the election year, if theres a clear difference in the polls. If one out candidates is 12 points better than trump, that might say something. Its not a crazy question to ask who has a better chance, but its a better question to answer with some data which we dont have in any reliable source. We dont have e liable data. What we know is theres a large swath of people we dont know anything about. When looking at everyones past votes and legislation or name recognition. Or the fact that we elected joe biden. I ask is that nostalgia or a real vote . Does america need a hug from somebody they like and know or do they really think that joe biden can be up to the task . Right . In this particular time and not just a good throwback. Thats a question a lot of people are asking themselves specifically about joe biden. And the biden question, one of the things i think that is dangerous and it relates to what stooe said about how far out we are. The polling right now, its like it doesnt matter until you go through the crucible, the fight. We all everyone saw Hillary Clinton was the most popular politician in america at one point, and of course that didnt last. There was an entire machinery set up to pull that number down. And so right now pointing to anything seems a little bit ridiculous. Well, we spend 2008 we spent millions of dollars to pull that number down. Thats called a campaign. Right . I think the electable think, i think if youre joe bidens campaign, this electable stuff is a problem because a lot of your predicate was built on im the guy most electable and the blue wall, et cetera. And today although this poll is a small sample size, its getting a lot of press. But today that argument, that predicate by the Biden Campaign looks weaker against the field when everyone in the field is basically beating donald trump. I think it speaks more to how poorly positioned the incumbent he is. But to your point, theres going to be a campaign over the next couple months. None of this means anything until the candidates start spending millions upon millions of dollars to move voters . I want to read this marco rubio quote. Donald trump is the president of the United States. That looms over this. This is rubio february 28, 20 , 2016,. We cannot be the party who we cannot be the party who does that. Good point. By the why, not only is that wrong. It makes him unelectable. Mark pen memo march 19th, 2007. Obama is unelectable except perhaps against oh till la the hundred. I remember jerry brown in 1992 called bill clinton the humpty bumpty candidate. He said all the political money in the world cannot put him back together and beat george bush in 1996. And the guy had been through crazy scandals and everybody was like really, this guy . The answer but yes. Thats the problem. People end up because you feel like no one actually knows what this thing is, particularly this early on. Its wielded to sort of either on behalf of someones favorite part of the favorite candidate or against other candidates or along lines of race and gender so you end up with a patrolling rob that doesnt tell you what is going on. So you should just vote for who you like. Thats my im sorry. Vote for what you want to be president of the United States. Thats what you should do, america. Its a crazy idea. Danielle, cornell, and steve, thank you. You can catch us every weeknight right here on msnbc. Im thrilled to be here. There are 548 days until the 2020 president ial election. Tonight the big stories of this week and next. Did the attorney general give the democrats a play book for the president . Well talk to the mogul who has been there and done that and the advice hes personally giving cohen. Lots to cover. This is saturday night politics. First a little about me. As a 30year veteran to