Transcripts For MSNBCW The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell 20190111

Guest on set id be like put on the horse blinders and dont let any good stuff happen in the commercial break. Im now much less disciplined and stuff like that happens. Im just not professional enough to talk to anyone during the commercial break because im too worried about what happens after the commercial break. We could go on and on about this. But i guess i should do the show. Do the show. Thanks, lawrence. Thanks, rachel. Well, on this date, january 10th, 2019, the big lie of the Trump Presidency collapsed. And it collapsed in public. Most big trump lies collapse instantaneously, the second donald trump says them, to people who are well informed enough to know it is a lie, people who can process the difference between truth and falsehood, fact and fiction. The big lie of the Trump Presidency was in Donald Trumps president ial campaign announcement, 3 1 2 years ago. I would build a great wall. And nobody builds walls better than me. Believe me. And i build them very inexpensively. I will build a great, great wall on our southern border. And i will have mexico pay for that wall. Mark my words. Yes yes that was the paid audience that donald trump hired for his campaign announcement. So they werent as enthusiastic. They didnt know that the wall was supposed to be a big cheer line. But you saw what happened to it during the campaign. It got cheers every time donald trump said it. And mexico will pay for the wall became a campaign chant, led by donald trump. That big lie, mexico will pay for the wall, was carried into the Trump Presidency, and it immediately became a problem for President Trump in his first conversation as president with the president of mexico on the telephone. Donald trump begged the president of mexico to stop saying mexico would not pay for the wall. And now donald trump himself is finally saying mexico will not pay for the wall. These are the moments that donald trump hates more than any others in his public life. If you ask him if he had sex with a porn star and paid her off during his third marriage, thats the kind of thing he can take in stride. But having to admit that one of his big lies is a lie is as painful as it gets for donald trump. And you can see it. You can see it when it happens. Lets take a look at what might be the single most painful moment of the president ial campaign for donald trump, was the moment that donald trump believed would never come. When he began his president ial campaign. Because donald trump did not expect to be the republican nominee. He was just running to try into crease his fame, which was fading then. But then there he was as the republican nominee with only seven weeks left in a president ial campaign, and he had to admit that the foundational lie of his political career was a lie, the lie that endeared donald trump to american racists was a lie. The lie he began telling five years before the moment when he had to admit that it was a lie. The first time donald trump told this big lie in 2011 i immediately said it was a big lie. But sadly, the news media did not then know how to handle it. Not only did they not call it a lie, they entertained it and repeated interviews in which they allowed him to tell that lie on National Television and build his Political Base every time he told that lie. And it took five years for the news media to finally corner donald trump and force him to admit the foundational lie of the trump political career. President barack obama was born in the United States, period. Couldnt you just see how that felt for donald trump . That was one of those days for donald trump, when he had to do that. Today was one of those days. So now the chants of mexico will pay for the wall will never be heard again. When during the campaign i would say mexicos going to pay for it, obviously i never said this and i never meant theyre going to write out a check. And it only got worse from there. When your when i say mexico excuse me. When i say mexicos going to pay for the wall, do you think theyre going to write a check for 20 billion or 10 billion or 5 billion or 2 cents . No. Not even 2 cents. Mexicos not going to pay 2 cents for the wall. Thats not going to work as the new chant. The president also said today that mexico would pay for the wall indirectly, which is exactly like saying president barack obama was born in kenya indirectly. And so is the new chant going to be mexico will pay for the wall indirectly . It is impossible for mexico to pay for the wall indirectly. Impossible. President trump said that the update of nafta that his administration has negotiated with mexico will indirectly pay for the wall. That is impossible. First of all, the updated deal has not even been approved by congress. And if youve been watching congress lately, you might get the feeling that it might never be approved by congress. But even if it is approved by congress, there is nothing in that deal that indirectly pays for the wall. The only thing that can ever pay for the wall is an american taxpayer money. Money that is processed in Internal Revenue Processing Centers that are now not processing anything because President Trump has shut down the government and irs employees have been sent home. President trump visited the state with one of the largest irs Processing Centers in the country, 9,000 texans work in the irs Processing Center in austin, texas, the state that donald trump visited today. None of them will be receiving their paycheck tomorrow because of the trump shutdown. And the texans who are depending on quick processing of their 2018 tax returns in that Processing Center so that they can get their refunds that they desperately need, they will not be getting those refunds because their tax returns cannot be processed. And so did the two texas senators join in the protests around the country against the shutdown today and demand that those 9,000 texans be sent back to work immediately and get their paychecks immediately . Did the two texas senators spend their day with some of those 9,000 texans whose families are being harmed by the trump shutdown . No. Theyre republican senators. The two texas republican senators spent their day in southern texas near the border with the president meeting with the republican president who has shut down the government and harmed those 9,000 texans, and they did not say one word about the texans who have been harmed by the trump shutdown. The president went to the southern border to try to convince democratic members of congress that theres an invasion at the southern border that can only be stopped with a wall. Before he boarded his helicopter at the white house, the president wanted to clear up something about his negotiating style. I dont have temper tantrums. I really dont. I didnt pound on the table. I didnt raise my voice. And here is the president not having a temper tantrum and not raising his voice. If we dont get what we want one way or the other, whether its through you, through a military, through anything you want to call, i will shut down the government. Okay. Fair enough. We disagree. And i am proud. And ill tell you what, i am proud to shut down the government for Border Security, chuck. Because the people of this country dont want criminals and people that have lots of problems and drugs pouring into our country. So i will take the mantle. I will be the one to shut it down. Im not going to blame you for it. The last time you shut it down it didnt work. I will take the mantle of shutting down. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi brought two more bills to a vote today in the house, one to open the agriculture department, which attracted 10 republican votes and passed 243183, and a bill to reopen the Transportation Department and housing and urban development, which attracted 12 republican votes and passed 244180. Yesterday Speaker Pelosi passed a bill to reopen the treasury department, which would reopen the Internal Revenue service. It got only 8 republican votes in the house. Now, think about what that means. Republican members of congress voted to deny paychecks to thousands of Internal Revenue Service Workers in their states. The irs has five big Processing Centers in the United States. Four of them are in republican states. Kentucky, missouri, texas, and utah. One of thems in california, where six California Republican members of the house including republican leader Kevin Mccarthy voted to keep 5,000 californians out of work without paychecks. 22 republican texas members of congress voted to keep 9,000 texans out of work without paychecks. Six republican members of congress from missouri voted to keep 6,000 missouri workers out of work and without paychecks. And three republican members of the house from utah voted to keep 5,000 utah voters out of work without paychecks to support their families. And five house members from kentucky voted to keep 5,000 kentuckians out of work without paychecks to support their families. Those are Mitch Mcconnells constituents. In kentucky. They are out of work now not because of donald trump. Not anymore. It is Mitch Mcconnells shutdown now. Mitch mcconnell has the power to take up those house bills that would reopen those Government Departments and bring them to a vote. Those bills would easily pass the senate if Mitch Mcconnell would bring them to a vote in the senate. So every federal worker in kentucky tonight out of work including the 5,000 irs workers in kentucky trying to provide for their families have Mitch Mcconnell to blame for the financial struggle they find themselves in tonight. Now, maybe Mitch Mcconnell just cant relate because like donald trump, not as rich as donald trump maybe, but Mitch Mcconnell is a very, very rich man. And Mitch Mcconnell like all republicans, publicly at least, hates the irs. But does he hate the irs workers who live in kentucky . Republicans love to ate thate ts publicly. But on a per dollar basis irs workers are the most valuable workers in america. They return a giant profit on their salaries to the United States treasury every year. And they do it in the Processing Centers in kentucky, texas, missouri, california, and utah that Mitch Mcconnell and republicans are now keeping closed down. Some republicans are now voting for every spending bill that nancy pelosi brings to a vote in the house of representatives, and at least three republicans have publicly declared that they would do the same in the senate if Mitch Mcconnell would just bring those bills to a vote in the senate. And if those bills came to a vote, there would be many more than just those three whove publicly declared their support. Those bills would easily pass the United States senate. Because republicans are not united on the shutdown. The republicans are extremely united. They all want to see something happen. But theyre extremely united. And i dont think ive ever seen unity like this in the Republican Party. We have tremendous unity of the Republican Party. There is no unity in the Republican Party. Unity in the Republican Party was when they were voting for tax cuts and every republican voted exactly the same way. Disunity is breaking out all over in the republican congress. Senator lindsay graham, the new chairman of the Senate Judiciary committee, said today that the president should declare an emergency and seize money from the Defense Department to try to begin work on the trump wall. At the same time today chuck grassley, who was the chairman of judiciary until this week and is now the chairman of the Senate Finance committee, said this about declaring an emergency. I would advise against that as a bad precedent. Even if the president s got authority to do it, id advise against it. And here is what the president said today about declaring an emergency. So were either going to have a win, make a compromise, because i that i compromise is a win for everybody, or i will declare a National Emergency. And with that statement the president gave his opponents everything they will ever need to stop him in court if he declares an emergency because what he just said was if we dont have a legislative compromise on a budget bill then i will declare a National Emergency. That means that the emergency is we dont have a legislative compromise. When a hurricane hits new orleans or puerto rico, thats a National Emergency and you cant have a legislative compromise to make that hurricane go away. Donald trump admitted today that the emergency would be about a legislative compromise, not about the conditions at the southern border. He did not say if the invasion continues at southern border i will declare an emergency. He said if we dont reach a legislative compromise i will declare an emergency. So as usual, Donald Trumps public negotiating with himself continues to negotiate himself into an unwinnable corner. Congressman Eric Swalwell is a member of the party that is united in fighting the trump shutdown. He will join us after a break, along with Jennifer Rubin and former republican president ial Campaign Manager stuart stevens. L Campaign Manager stuart stevens. [indistinct conversation] [friend] ive never seen that before. I have. But he hasoke up wwork to do. In. I have. So he took aleve. If hed taken tylenol, hed be stopping for more pills right now. Only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. Aleve. All day strong. And my brother ray and i started searching for answers. vo when its time to navigate inhome care, follow that bright star. Because brightstar care earns the same accreditation as the best hospitals. And brightstar care means an rn will customize a plan that evolves with moms changing needs. woman because dad made us promise wed keep mom at home. vo call 8444brightstar for your free home Care Planning guide. Hey, batter, batter, [ crowd cheers ] like everyone, i lead a busy life. But i know the importance of having time to do what you love. At comcast we know our customers time is valuable. Thats why we have 2hour appointment windows, including nights and weekends. So you can do more of what you love. My name is tito, and im a techhouse manager at comcast. Were working to make things simple, easy and awesome. Used against him in court if he declares a National Emergency at the southern border including what he just said to sean hannity tonight. If we dont make a deal with congress, most likely i will do that. I would actually say i would. I cant imagine any reason why not. Because im allowed to do it. The laws 100 on my side. We have the absolute right to declare a National Emergency. This is security stuff. This is a National Emergency if you look at whats happening. Joining us now, democratic congressman Eric Swalwell of california. Jennifer rubin, opinion writer at the Washington Post and an msnbc contributor, and stuart stevens, republican political consultant who was the chief strategist for mitt romneys 2012 president ial campaign. And congressman swalwell, we just heard him say it again, that the emergency is that theres a stalemate in congress. When he describes the emergency, he doesnt say anything about the southern border. Right. Failure to make a deal, failure to lead is not an emergency. That is a crisis of his own leadership. But i just want to tell you, lawrence, this shutdown is risking my sons life. Thats an email subject line that i saw today from a mother in fremont, california talking about the fda not being able to work on her sons therapy. So this really boils down to are we going to govern in this shutdown by purpose or by circus . When we govern by purpose, we believe that government should be open and helping people, whether its at the fda or getting people the irs tax refunds they deserve or making sure our Border Patrol agents are able to stand guard, not worry about financial distress. And when we govern by purpose, we govern based on facts. The facts that the real undocumented issue here is the overstaying of visas, not people coming across the border. When we govern by circus we get theater and we get a ground truth that is not based in reality. And lawrence, ill submit to you that this president wants border theater. He doesnt want anything other than that. And Jennifer Rubin, we see each time theres a vote a couple more republicans moving over to the nancy pelosi side in the house of representatives. Right. We start with five, then seven, eight, ten, twelve. That number i think will continue to go up. Now, i think unfortunately the republicans in the senate are much more responsible for this catastrophe than theyre commonly assumed to be. Of course Mitch Mcconnell could end this immediately. And moreover, those republicans like susan collins, like lisa murkowski, who have qualms about this, who say gosh, you know, we really dont think the president should be using Emergency Powers to subvert the constitution of course, they could stop this too. They could stop acting on the president s agenda. They could demand a vote. They could join democrats in any lawsuit to stop the Emergency Powers. But they dont because they are sheep, like they have always been. They have always been afraid to confront the president and his handlers, sean hannity and rush limbaugh, who pushed him into this. And so we have this ridiculous sight where you see the chairman of the Judiciary Committee in the United States senate telling the president of the United States to cook up an emergency, go to court and take over congresss responsibility for appropriation. That is Lindsey Graham. Ive got to think the people of south carolina, who are going to have a chance to vote on him in 2020, are smarter and more conservative than that. That they have more respect for the constitution than Lindsey Graham does. My own suspicion about that, could be wrong, is that Lindsey Graham knows that if the president does that hell be stopped in court in a matter of days as quickly as the muslim ban was stopped in the first week of the trump administration. Stuart stevens, you know a bunch of these republican senators including the junior senator from utah now, where there is a big irs Processing Center, where 5,000 people cant go to work, cant get a paycheck tomorrow. Are going to struggle now, have been struggling, taking care of their families, trying to figure out how long theyre going to go with this. How long can the mitt romneys of the senate and others hold on to the president s position here . Well, you know, i look at donald trump as sort of like the civil rights moment, its a moral test that the Republican Party is tragically failing. Everybody knows that donald trump isnt telling the truth, and everybody pretends not everybody, but almost everybody pretends that he is telling the truth. Its what donald trump sort of forces you to choose between your own dignity and some sort of political allegiance. And part of this is it makes a rational discussion about Border Security impossible because as the congressman said its all circus theater. I think theres a good argument to be made for more Border Security. I think theres a rational argument to be made for a wall. But none of that sort of can be discussed and talked about with this cacophony of xleecomplete untruth. And congressman swalwell, lets consider for a moment what would happen if the president did declare this emergency. I believe the courts would stop it as quickly as they stopped the muslim ban. But lets assume for a moment that that that it just went forward. We are more than a year away, way more than a year away from any shovel hitting any piece of dirt anywhere in texas to even outline where any piece of wall would go. Thats right, lawrence. And the first thing the president would hear as soon as he did that would be a phrase that he is quite used to. Well see you in court. And the result will also be a result that hes quite used to. He will probably lose. But sadly, right now his proposal as far as how hes going to pay for at least the first part of this would also hurt people. It would hurt hurricane victims in puerto rico and houston and florida. It would hurt people in my state who are victims of wildfires where the president believes that its environmentalists causing the problem. But lawrence, i can promise you that even if he was able to begin construction on the wall he would never be able to finish it because any future appropriation congress would never allow any money to ever go to any emergency. We would certainly put a firewall, if you will, around that. And jennifer, even the best Case Scenario on the trump view of the world, this wall is not going to get built in what is now basically less than two years left on this presidency and there wouldnt even be the first marks in the ground anywhere until donald trump had just months left in office. Theres never going this wall is never going to happen. And its just a question of what are we going to go through between now and the final realization that its never going to happen. Thats right. Remember, they are still fighting in texas over appropriations made in 2006 for additional fencing in texas. And as we speak, republicans, ranchers, land owners who are along the border are getting ready. Theyre calling up their lawyers. Theyre getting ready to fight the president. This will frankly, i dont think a shovel will ever hit anywhere. We havent even talked about the environmental lawsuits that are going to take place. But i want to concentrate on something the congressman just said. Understand how crazy this is. He is taking money from hurricane victims in texas to use that money to forcibly take land from other people in texas who dont want a wall, who dont have a border crossing, so he can save face with sean hannity. Thats whats going on. And i kind of think that there have to be some republicans out there who say, you know, stop the madness, this is lunacy, and were going to get our heads handed all the states you mentioned, lawrence, all of them except california voted for trump for president. Maybe they shouldnt do that next time. Yeah. It will be a struggle next time, no doubt. Stuart, the republicans who are watching this in the senate, i mean, my experience in dealing with senators is they never really say anything as long as they can get away with not saying anything. The thing where theyre forced to say yes or no is on a vote. And it is very hard to predict how theyre going to vote when theyre on this kind of pressure. If Something Like this can somehow get to a vote. If any of the pelosi bills ever make it to a vote in the senate, my feeling is they would go through with more than 60 votes. I think youre right. The majority of americans think theres a pretty reasonable solution to this. Its part of the whole absurdity of talking about this as a crisis and why politically i think the president s losing on this and i think republicans are losing. Its not a crisis. People look at it and they know its not a crisis, and its just completely fraudulent, and people see through it. So i dont know how we get out of this. But its not going to end up i think in a way that donald trump wants. Its a way im sure hell probably declare victory in this, but its just its such a complete waste of Political Capital and poisons the dialogue of our politics. I think, stuart, youve found what is the clearest prediction of the night, is that we know what Donald Trumps line is going to be. However it ends. That he won no matter how it ends. Were sure of that. Stuart stevens, Jennifer Rubin, thank you for joining us. Congressman swalwell, please stay with us. When we come back, the president s former lawyer and friend Michael Cohen is going to take his place in history on february 7th by testifying under oath in public to a Congressional Committee about the president of the United States and the crimes that Michael Cohen has said under oath he committed with the president of the United States. And former acting solicitor general neal katyal will tell us whats going to happen to Robert Muellers report, and he knows because he wrote the rules of what happens to special counsel reports. Billions of mouths. Billions of problems. Morning breath . Garlic breath . Stinky breath . Theres a therabreath for you. Therabreath fresh breath oral rinse instantly fights all types of bad breath and works for 24 hours. So you can. Breathe easy. Theres therabreath at walmart. Hey, darryl. Would you choose the network rated 1 in the nation by the experts, or the one awarded by the people . Uh. Correct you dont have to choose, cause, uh. Oh vo switch to the Network Awarded by rootmetrics and j. D. Power. Buy the latest galaxy phones, get galaxy s9 free. The New York Times is reporting special prosecutor Robert Mueller is examining at least a dozen ukrainian political and business figures who came to washington for the trump inauguration. The investigations are playing out against growing indications that some of the ukrainians who came to washington for the inaugural or their allies were promoting grand bargains or peace plans that aligned with russias interests including by lifting sanctions. Before he goes to prison Donald Trumps former personal attorney and friend Michael Cohen will testify publicly before the House Oversight committee on february 7th, where he will presumably discuss arranging a payoff to porn star Stormy Daniels for donald trump in the final weeks of the trump president ial campaign. And who knows what else . And cnn is reporting that muellers team interviewed a Trump Campaign pollster last year who worked with Paul Manafort. That interview holds new significance after a court filing revealed that manafort shared polling data with an associate tied to russian intelligence during the to 16 campaign. Earlier today President Trump denied any knowledge of that. Did you know that Paul Manafort was sharing polling data from your campaign with the russians . No, i didnt know anything about it. Nothing about it. Joiningous discussion now, jill wine banks, former Watergate Special prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst and also with Us Democratic congressman Eric Swalwell. Jilli want to go with you. I imagine this february 7th date with history that Michael Cohen has, you were there during the giant moments of the watergate investigation, the public hearings that the congress had while you were working as part of the special prosecutors team. What are you expecting to hear on february 7th . I think its going to be very interesting and one difference from john deans testimony during watergate is when he testified he did not know that there were any tape recordings. So his testimony ended up being corroborated by all of that. The person whos testifying in this case may have a lot of recordings that already corroborate what hes about to say. And that will be very dramatic if thats true. So we need to look at the motivation of both of them. And john dean was motivated by helping himself but also by recognizing that he had done wrong and he wanted to rectify that. And i think were seeing the same thing in Michael Cohen. He knows he did wrong. And he wants to make up for that. But he also would like to help himself. His lawyer admits that part of his motivation is to get a lower sentence than hes already gotten. So thatll be interesting. But the most important thing is not the motivation, and its really the education that will come from this. Seeing him testify live so that people can judge his credibility by his demeanor, by his tone of voice, by the words he chooses will be very important in getting people to realize what has happened and what the president has done. So its a very important thing. And congressman swalwell, chairman schiff of the Intelligence Committee that youre a member of has also publicly expressed an interest in possibly your committee obtaining some kind of testimony, cooperation from Michael Cohen. Do you expect other committees, possibly judiciary or Intelligence Committee, will also be hearing from Michael Cohen . I can speak for intelligence. I spoke with mr. Schiff today and he expressed just what you said, which is an intent to try and get mr. Cohen to come in and talk about the russia investigation. As i understand it, his testimony to the Oversight Committee will probably not include the russia investigation. And we have a lot of followup questions now that he has admitted to lying to us. Now, he remembers someone who lived in all three of Donald Trumps worlds. His personal world, his political world, and his professional world. And he would have more knowledge than probably anyone as to just what donald trump knew about what the russians were doing, what mr. Trumps intent was to do business with russia while he was a candidate. And i always have found, lawrence, as a former prosecutor, that witnesses who come clean can be very helpful in first explaining why they protected the person they were protecting but also to put in perspective why so many others who are continuing to lie today continue to lie today, which i think will be illuminating for the american people. And jill, the committees statement about this testimony has said we dont want to interfere in any way with the mueller investigation. So that means they will prefer to be dealing with stuff thats already in some ways public information. So that brings us to the Michael Cohen guilty plea in the Southern District of new york, which is a completed case. And thats his guilty plea to campaign Crimes Involving the payoffs to Stormy Daniels and another woman to buy their silence weeks before the president ial election. And in that case that was presented as a conspiracy in effect to defraud the American Voter to not allow the American Voter to know this kind of information about the president and illegally financing that in Effect Campaign contribution. Thats where donald trump was identified as individual 1. When Michael Cohen talks about this on february 7th in the committee, he wont be calling him individual 1. I think thats a really important point, is that no one has to guess anymore who individual 1 is. Although its been pretty apparent. But i think thats also important is the coordination that has to take place. This was a problem during watergate where we had the Senate Hearings going on. And in fact the senate actually gave immunity to john dean that we were very much opposed to because we felt that he would be a much more credible witness if he didnt have any immunity. And so that was a problem. But we worked through that. And it ended up that the public could get the education it needed in order to be able to follow and vote according to what they were learning while not having a problem with the coordination between the special prosecutor and the senate. So it can be done. Jill wine banks and congressman Eric Swalwell, thank you both for joining us tonight. And when we come back, former acting solicitor general neal katyal will tell us whats going to happen to Robert Muellers report, and hes the guy who should know. He wrote the rules about what happens to these reports. Thats next. Ens to these reports thats next. burke parking splat. And we covered it. Talk to farmers. We know a thing or two because weve seen a thing or two. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum carla is living with metastatic Breast Cancer, which is Breast Cancer that has spread to other parts of her body. Shes also taking prescription ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor, which is for postmenopausal women with hormone receptorpositive her2 metastatic Breast Cancer as the first hormonal based therapy. Ibrance plus letrozole was significantly more effective at delaying disease progression versus letrozole. Patients taking ibrance can develop low white blood cell counts, which may cause serious infections that can lead to death. Before taking ibrance, tell your doctor if you have fever, chills, or other signs of infection, liver or kidney problems, are pregnant, breastfeeding, or plan to become pregnant. Common side effects include low red blood cell and low platelet counts, infections, tiredness, nausea, sore mouth, abnormalities in liver blood tests, diarrhea, hair thinning or loss, vomiting, rash, and loss of appetite. Carla calls it her new normal because a lot has changed, but a lot hasnt. Ask your doctor about ibrance. The 1 prescribed fdaapproved oral Combination Treatment for hr her2 mbc. What do you look for i want free access to research. Yep, td ameritrades got that. Free access to every platform. Yeah, that too. I dont want any trade minimums. Yeah, i totally agree, they dont have any of those. I want to know what im paying upfront. Yes, absolutely. Do you just say yes to everything . Hm. Well i say no to kale. Mm. Yeah, they say if you blanch it its better, but that seems like a lot of work. No hidden fees. No platform fees. No trade minimums. And yes, its all at one low price. Td ameritrade. I hope you consider yourselves as lucky as i do when i get to hear neal katyals legal opinion about any legal case or important situation involving the law because tonight we are the lucky ones. There is no Higher Authority out there on the authority of special prosecutors like Robert Mueller. Neal katyal drafted the department of justice rules for special counsels 20 years ago when he was working in the Clinton Administration justice department. And he now has no doubt that because of the rules he wrote Robert Muellers report will be public. But thats not all. In addition, neal katyal is also one of the foremost legal experts in the country in the use of president ial emergency power. He has argued the biggest cases on Emergency Powers of the 21st century at the Supreme Court. And so who better to ask about what Emergency Powers the president has at the southern border . And so joining us now is neal katyal, former u. S. Acting solicitor general. Neal, thank you very much for joining us tonight. I want to first of all start with the emergency that the president is thinking about declaring at the southern border. What happens if he does that . Well, its going to be challenged. And i think its a very weak argument. So i think theres two important pieces to it. One is kind of whether or not the president has any chance of winning this emergency and second what is this really saying about the president that hes going to try to assert this. On the first, on kind of is this an emergency, the only emergency trump can point to is the fact he didnt get his way. That is traditionally not an emergency. The Supreme Court most famously in the steel seizure case in 1952 rejected these kinds of claims. And i think conservatives and liberals alike have to really worry about the president s extravagant claim about emergency here because you can imagine a future democratic president , for example, saying you know, gun violence, gun violence kills a lot of people, unlike these fake statistics that the trump administrations putting together about immigration. So were going to ban guns or Something Like that. You know, the system our founders left us with is one in which Congress Makes these calls, not the president. So thats number one. And then number two on kind of what does this say about the president , i mean, it is really remarkable that hes asserting this emergency power because i think if he asserts it i dont think theres any choice but for the democrats to begin impeachment proceedings, and i think indeed joined by a lot of republicans too at the end of the day. Im beginning to think maybe trump wants to be impeached. I mean, thats the only way to really make sense of what this is about because youre dealing with a president who has effectively no agenda left. His agenda is, as best i can tell, twitter and the wall. And the wall isnt working out for him. And this is a president who frankly acts like a snowflake. I mean, hes a guy who claims to be the victim all the time and an impeachment proceeding of course would allow him to make that cry even more. But as a matter of law, as a matter of policy this is a very, very damaging thing for the country and indeed i think to donald trump. What would invoking the National Emergency add to momentum for impeachment and why . Well, i think one of the most important things you do as president is take an oath to take care that the laws be faithfully executed. Thats in our constitution. And the idea that the president could bypass, you know, our most central thing our founders gave us, the separation of powers, and say oh, im the president , i can do whatever i want. You know, sometimes in a true emergency there are real reasons for that, and thats why Congress Passes emergency statutes, because they recognize congress cant always get every legislation passed. But once you have a president who starts to abuse that, then it forces congress to contract those authorities and means that when the next president faces a real crisis, not one of the president s temper tantrum, that he doesnt have or she doesnt have that suite of authorities. And that is a terrible, terrible result. And that is the stuff of which impeachment is all made. Speaking of president ial powers, what can donald trump do to stop us from seeing the Mueller Report . So i dont think that at the end of the day he can do very much. The context here, theres three important pieces. Number one, as you were discussing earlier, the investigation is starting to bear fruit on donald trump. I think most notably, you know, this is remarkable for one of the very few times in American History over the last 200 years a president has been fingered as ordering the commission of felonies. Thats what the Southern District prosecutors did with respect to Michael Cohen and campaign finance. That is extraordinary. Thats number one. Number two, the president was reported yesterday to have hired 17 new lawyers at the white house to try and assert executive privilege to block information. And then number three, the attorney general, or right now the fake attorney general whitaker, or the new one barr, should he get confirmed, both of these people have campaigned for the job of attorney general by giving the president memos or talking on tv or stuff about how mueller needs to be reined in and all of that. So basically, i do expect the attorney general or the acting attorney general to try and suppress pieces of the Mueller Report. But the way we wrote the regulations back 20 years ago, i think its going to be virtually impossible for him to succeed. What specifically in the regulation protects muellers ability to deliver a report to congress . So two things. Number one, whenever the attorney general rejects something that the special counsel mueller asks for, it triggers an automatic reporting requirement to congress. In both the majority and minority parties. So thats an anticoverup provision. So we anticipated Something Like this in which youd have something nefarious that might go on, and that is one safety check. And then the second safety check are the limitations on executive privilege itself. Executive privilege is this idea that the president s private communications or Government Communications about important sensitive matters not be released, but the Supreme Court in 1974, when nixon tried to assert it to protect against his own wrongdoing, unanimously said uhuh, the public has a right to know. Neal katyal, thank you very much for joining us tonight. Really appreciate it. Thank you. And when we come back, Jacob Soboroff will join us from the southern border. s pretty stres. This music is supposed to relax me, though. Maybe youd mellow out a bit if you got geico to help you with your renters insurance. Oh, geico helps with renters insurance . Good to know. Yeah, and they could save you a lot of money. Wow, suddenly i feel so relieved. You guys are fired. Get to know geico and see how much you could save on renters insurance. Ensure max protein. To give you the protein you need with less of the sugar you dont. straining ill take that. cheers 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar. Ensure max protein. In two great flavors. Hey, darryl. Would you choose the network rated 1 in the nation by the experts, or the one awarded by the people . Uh. Correct you dont have to choose, cause, uh. Oh vo switch to the Network Awarded by rootmetrics and j. D. Power. Buy the latest galaxy phones, get galaxy s9 free. But some give their clients cookie cutter portfolios. Fisher investments tailors portfolios to your goals and needs. Some only call when they have something to sell. Fisher calls regularly so you stay informed. And while some advisors are happy to earn commissions whether you do well or not. Fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. Maybe thats why most of our clients come from other money managers. Fisher investments. Clearly better money management. There are pictures this morning showing a steel barrier wall being sawed through. What good is that . Thats a wall that was designed by previous administrations. There is nothing that cant be penetrated but you fix it. Joining us now by phone from the border, that was your reporting that the president was reacting to today. He said there are pictures showing that the steel barrier can be sawed through. What do you make of his response to your reporting . Reporter wasnt true, like much of what he says. The reality of life along the southern border. This is a picture that we exclusively obtained of those steel slat proto barriers. They were at the president s direction. All of those different materials. That steel that he said that he came to concensus with the democrats to move forward, the shutdown and et cetera 00 sliced clear through. The impenetrable bare grer the president is insistent on, while 800,000 people are sitting at home on furlough. Is this something, is this information thats available to the president now . Especially after an exchange like that. Wouldnt people say, thats the latest stuff. Reporter not only is it available to the president. Those tests were ordered by the president. That he had reality show contest where he went down there last march to fick best prototype. The one that he liked the best. He said we might peick different design. Thats not true. Theyll go with steel. And the idea that this president has been saying all along. He has known since at least the testing period that these steel barriers can be sliced clear through. By the way, the tools they used is a saw that they grabbed from home depot. Thats why anyone who lives along the border says a board wall is not enough. Any crisis the president is talking about in the first place is largely a crisis of his own making. So what what the president is calling an emergency situation, he doesnt have the technology that would address the emergency that he is trying to describe. If the wall worked, it wouldnt address the technology hes described in the first place. Because we know, number one, that the humanitarian crisis is something that he started. Not he started but he exacerbated by meeting people at these ports of entry. The latest example, of course, is these two Young Children who tragically and horrifically died in border custody. Thank you for joining us. Well be right back. woman one year ago today mom started searching for her words. And my brother ray and i started searching for answers. vo when its time to navigate inhome care, follow that bright star. Because brightstar care earns the same accreditation as the best hospitals. 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With nothing to lose before heading off to prison. The news broke while he was on the southern border saying that he wants to use his special Emergency Powers to get his wall or his steel slat barrier possibly including rerouting money from Disaster Relief in places like puerto rico. Meantime, the government remains