We have a lot of news, believe it or not even though it is a holiday season. Today in the face of bipartisan criticism following the resignation of this defense secretary, President Trump did something that many people have been waiting for, something you probably heard lawrence talk about previously. He made his first ever visit as a u. S. President to american troops in a war zone. The president and first lady making a surprise appearance to visit u. S. Soldiers in iraq. The president visited american troops in germany during a stop on the way home. In iraq, trump talked Foreign Policy to the soldiers on the ground. He took the chance to make a public pitch for the very controversial way that he hastily announced the withdrawal from sear, a move widely seen as benefitting russia and sparking the departure of his defense secretary. I said go get them. We need six months. Go get them. They said give us another six months. I said go get them. Then they said can we have one more like period of six months . I said no, no. I said i gave you a lot of six months and now we are doing it a different way. America shouldnt be doing the fighting for every nation on earth, not being reimbursed in many cases at all. If they want us to do the fighting, they also have to pay a price. Sometimes thats also a monetary price. So we are not the suckers of the world. We are no longer the suckers, folks. No longer the suckers. Lets be clear and break this down. Part of what you just heard there actually does have a long precedent in american debates over Foreign Policy, the idea that the u. S. Shouldnt necessarily always police the world. Okay. And part of it is a new and chaotic feature of this particular president s leadership, military decisions made on the fly justified after the fact in harsh and even sloppy terms with these public hints that yes its worse than it looks because some of the experts closest to the president are the most concerned. You ever wonder what theyve seen that maybe we dont know yet . Because we know something led to defense secretary mattiss resignation just like Something Else made trump take back the announced plan that mattis would continue on for several months. It has been a busy christmas with a shutdown, with market jitters. Remember, it was just last week that trump claimed mattis will be retiring with distinction at the end of february, a statement made before President Trump bothered to even read general mattis Resignation Letter according to reporting in the new york times. Trump only came to understand what had even happened after days of News Coverage recounting how mattis issued the review over the nuflect of allies and tolerance of authorityitarians. The president grew increasingly angry as analysts went on tv to extol mattis bravery. On sunday the president tweeting mattis will be gone starting january 1, 2019 which brings us to this acting administration we are living through now. Now Deputy Defense secretary Patrick Shanahan is the acting secretary of defense. He has no stated military experience. Trump saying today in iraq he is not in any hurry to name a Permanent Defense chief and that secretary shanahan could be there for a long time. President also used the opportunity to briefly stoke fears about how long the ongoing shutdown will last. How long do you think the shutdown will last . Whatever it takes. We will have a wall. We will have safety. President trump unlikely to get his wall according to who controls congress as we head into january, but the uncertainty President Trump has caused at home and abroad has led to a pair of high profile pieces this weekend by people who apparently cant wait any longer. They want the world to know they view the current president as a quote threat to the country, one from a former Obama National security adviser, susan rice, the other from a less senior official but has a potentially bright future, that is beto orourke. He writes what is happening now is part of a larger threat to us all. My fear is that we will choose certainty, strength and predictability over this function even if it comes at the price of our democracy if there were ever a man to exploit this precarious moment for our country and for our form of government, its trump. Now, you might say thats a politician. And politicians make all kinds of attacks on other politicians. All right. But now again against the back drop of this change of lo leadership of a defense secretary departing, susan rice writing in the new york times, this is a person who has never been a politician. The headline, the threat in the white house. She writes this president couldnt care less about facts, intelligence, military analysis or the national interest. He refuses to take seriously the views of his advisers, announces decisions on impauls and abandoning the role of a responsible commander in chief. Mr. Trump today does more to undermine the National Security than any foreign adversary. That cuts ice. All of this Foreign Policy uncertainty comes amid another piece of news. There is a lot going on around the world. Nuclear rattling from russian president Vladimir Putin claiming russia has successfully tested a missile that can carry a Nuclear War Head five times the speed of sound and will be added to russias arsenal next year, putin calling it a wonderful, perfect new years gift, a public belligerence on the world stage that does stand against the back drop of President Trump pulling u. S. Troops out and retreating from russias ally, syria. Lets get into it with some more experts. Malcolm nance, a Counter Intelligence analyst and david jolly from florida and eleanor clift, a columnist with daily beast. As i like to call her, swellanor. That is a brief moment of likeness against what is pretty dark statements from people who ill speak as a journalist people who arent known to pop off politically at all. What do you think is driving her and do you agree with her assessment, susan rices . What is driving her into this very dire stark assessment are the facts that we can see before our very eyes. Donald trump as president of the United States has taken a tact to where he believes the fundamental security under pinnings of this nation that have been established in blood from the time that we entered world war ii that those fundamental under pinnings, n. A. T. O. , the Atlantic Alliance maintaining stability throughout the western and eastern hemispheres, they should go away. He believes the United States should not be a force for good through the advancement of democracy. He fundamentally believes that autocracy, the way that it is run by his partner, Vladimir Putin, should be the operating method for the way the United States will advance in the future which means you must get rid of n. A. T. O. He has hinted that he wanted the United States to withdraw at one point. You must get rid of National Security and financial trade alliances. He doesnt believe in anything weve believed in 243 years. Of course, ambassador rice is right. The man does not believe in what america stands for. He believes in an alternate reali reality america in which it would be comfortable in some other universe with fascism rules. Eleanor, how do yo yo you distinguish between what the president may be drawing on which i mentioned has roots in avoiding conflicts abroad and isolationism and the rest of it that malcolm and susan rice and others are associating himself with the critique that he is becoming a threat to the nation. And contrast that against what the president would claim and we report his side of the story, as well. He says saudi arabia is agreeing to spend the necessary money needed for siriae syria. Isnt it nice . He is take ing a very simplestic approach. You can hear him echoes probably talk in joes bar down the street. All the other countries are taking advantage of us. Donald trump is going to make them pay up. He is talking about the real estate guy from new york whos rebuilding the ice rink in central park and trying to get a better deal. I have given them six months notice and told them that is enough. We dont want to be suckers anymore. I think it is appealing, again, to his base and god knows i have heard so much of his base and catering to his base. Its the kind of approach to Foreign Policy, i think, that people who dont want to look at the complexities of the american role in the world, its the approach they would take. And then to deny secretary mattis that last two months when he would have attended a n. A. T. O. Meeting where he would have served as basically a bullmark against russia, to have the acting secretary of defense attend who is basically a procurement officer. I mean, he understands buying and selling planes and budgeting. He is not a strategist. He may be a very good person, but he is not somebody who could stand up to the president or who can articulate the strategy and the values that this country has built up over certainly the last seven decades. This president is squandering the collective good will that he certainly didnt earn and he wants everyone to believe that he alone can fix it. Its the authoritarian form of government. Adds to the acting chief of staff and the acting attorney general as someone who used to be in the coequal branch of congress. It is also problematic. Of course, all the acting secretaries, those answering to the president as a yes person. I think the concern and anxiety of congressional leaders but also americans across the country is do we need a check for the president s malfeasance, for the untword leanings and the Love Connection he has with authoritarians like malcolm said . Or is it simply a matter of having adults in the room to check his incompetence . Republicans are happy to criticize president obama from leading from behind. That is a narrative that many of us expressed concerns about for the vacuum created in places like syria because we didnt inser soon enough. The president s decisions to withdraw, though, if obama was arguably leading from behind, donald trump is taking it to a whole new level. He is being led on a leash. The question is why and to whom is he answering. If it is his own ego, what is he doing that is jeopardizing the men and women that he visited today . I take it you are getting the idea that domestic politics he is leading by retweet and in Foreign Policy you are saying leading by a leash that extends where . To the kremlin . To malcolms point, is he flirting with authoritarians . There is a level of incompetence. There are legitimate Foreign Policy decisions that republicans disagreed with with Foreign Policy. With donald trump there is an incoherence with Foreign Policy. The other piece tonight that i wanted to share for your analysis and i was reading up on this sin a story that quoted yo is a news week report that donald trump through this visit and everyone think the president visiting the troops and how long it took him to get there is a positive thing, but how you do it matters. It says trump and the White House CommunicationsTeam Revealed u. S. Navy s. E. A. L. Team was deployed to iraq after the president s secret trip and notes a report saying details of the troop were embargoed until the finishing of the remarks. The pool report went on to say trump paused to take a selfie with a u. S. Navy Lieutenant Commander who said he was a chaplain for the s. E. A. L. Team five. The chaplain said lets take a picture. After trump left iraqi air space the president posts a video showing him posing for pictures with Service Members that appear to be from s. E. A. L. Team five. In your view, is this compromising Operational Security and how does this happen . Well, it happens because donald trump says it happens. Donald trump is compromised Operational Security of many missions. The thing is there are so many, it occurs almost weekly. When he compromised a covert operation that the israelis were carrying out in syria to their enemies, to the russians, the people who would be there helping assad thwart that operation. It is just mindless. Representative jolly talked about incompetence, they are incompetent and they are incompetent because they dont care about what the rules are. Look, i lived under Operational Security clearances and protected status for a quarter of a century and the one thing that i would never ever want to do is get near a photograph, whether it is publicity or Something Else for anyone who holds a top security clearance. President trump rolls in and everybody wants to be accommodati accommodating. They engage with isis all the time. Should they be captured, they will be exploited because all they have to do is say here is you with the commander in chief. Clearly you are a s. E. A. L. The Commanding Officers should have quiet meet and greet off inside their sensitive compartment information facility and the president and staff should have thought i will not exploit the s. E. A. L. Teams. One last point. President bush had a photograph of himself taken with gold quadrant of s. E. A. L. Team six. They digitized their faces out. In this they jump out in front of the cameras. Do you think if barack obama made this Operational Security mistake it would be treated as a political and media scandal. Of course, it would. Are we getting our moneys worth. He was frustrated that he had to make the secure landing in iraq and i think he wants to be greeted with rose petals. I think he used the phrase a trillion dollars that we spent all this money there and we have to go in under this kind of security. He was asked if he had second thoughts about going. He had second thoughts about going when he learned what he would have to go through to get there. So again there is an ignorance of how government works, an ignorance of the complexities of Foreign Policy. If he is not getting his moneys worth and acts like every dollar is coming out of his pocket, maybe that is a good thing that he pay careful attention. He relies on his principle adviser, his gut. I look around the government and i dont see too many other people offering sound advice. Its not very comforting to know we have a president who has no process in place which is why a picture like that could be posted. Im sure nobody thought twice about it. We need a government where there is more attitude, analysis, complexity, not a government that operates on the whim of one man. Even when his gut makes the right decision and sometimes it does. I do think that it is time to rethink how long we have been in syria, how long we have beenb afghanistan. You dont just decide im bringing everyone home and at the same time you just sent three times as many troops to the southern border for a nonexistent caravan, three times what you had in syria where they were doing serious work and the strategy was paying off. So hes what weve got. I guess we can keep on criticizing him. But there is a price to pay for his media reaction. I think secretary mattis is gone because he was frustrated that mattis was getting so much good news. He gets good people and they get good reviews and then they are out of there which is why he is staffing the government with all these actings, easy to get rid of. It is very interesting listen to some of the experience and insight each of you offer. I cant say i feel better. I feel informed. Im just sharing with you my honest emotional reaction to what you shared with me. What im going to do is fit in a break. My special thanks. What else do we have on the show . Is the Supreme Court now considering weighing in on the Mueller Investigation . Very interesting stuff. Chief Justice John Roberts saying he wants to be briefed by the end of the month on the mystery subpoena that all of washington has been tracking. We will break it down later on the last word. The latest on what the democrats are calling the trump shutdown. There is a quote made up fight for the president can look like he is fighting. That is a republican quote. Thats next. S fighting. That is a republican quote. Thats next. Is this for real . Yep. We match all the cash back new cardmembers earn at the end of their first year, automatically. Whoo i got my money hard to contain yourself, isnt it . Uh huh let it go whoo get a dollarfordollar match at the end of your first year. Only from discover. And then, more jobs robegan to appear. What started with one job spread all around. Because each job in energy creates many more in this town. What a year. Your Home Improvement todo list still isnt todone. But hey, at least you still have time to get the ford vehicle youve always wanted. Just get to the final days of our holiday sales event. See you sometime between now and january 2nd. So you can end your year on a high note. Ford. Built for the holidays. Its time to get our best offers of the season. Merry christmas. We are about to enter the fifth day of the Government Shutdown. Over 400,000 federal employees deemed essential are working without pay. That is people like tsa staffers. Over 41,000 federal Law Enforcement and corrections officers, over 380,000 federal employees are furloughed. In the past, after a Government ShutdownCongress Passed as a bill to pay the workers retroactively. Its not like it saves money. There has been zero progress towards reopening the federal government in the first place. On Christmas Eve the president tweeted this one, i am all alone, poor me in the white house waiting for the democrats to come back and make a deal on desperately needed Border Security. If trump wants to make a deal with democrats he is not acting like it. The president not on the same continent as congress. Just before he left, trump went out of his way to make it clear he wont budge on any aspect of the wall demand other than what to call it. I cant tell you when ingovernment will be open. I can tell you it will not be open until we have a wall or fence or whatever they like to call it. It is a disgrace what is happening in our country. Other than that, i wish everybody a very merry christmas. Im joined by john harwood and congressman david jolly back with me. John, lets start out in a normal place. If you are a normal person and you are living your life and doing christmas and in and out of the news, you heard the Government Shutdown, you heard the markets are up and down, but you as our cnbc gurue, how real is this . How long term is the shutdown . Is the president to be taken at his word at this when a lot of people dont take him at his word on a lot of these fight s . Z i think the shutdown will probably last another week or so. This is something that of course didnt need to happen. The president had a deal on the table with republicans in the senate that the house was going to then pass. He decided after getting flack from the far right especially media commentators that he wasnt going to go ahead and do the deal that he had agreed to, but i think what is likely to happen is the Democratic House will come back. They will immediately pass the bill that the senate had by unanimous consent passed. The senate is likely to add another 300 million on to that and go from 1. 3 to 1. 6 for Border Security, not for a wall. The president will say i won and the government will reopen. Thats what i think will happen. You never know with this president. That would be signing the bill, but no wall . Look, there is never going to be a wall. Republicans in texas dont want a wall. This was a ridiculous promise he made in the campaign that was never going to take place. The idea that mexico was going to pay for the wall, never going to take place. Paul ryan openly mocked it when i interviewed him about that in 2016. What we are left with is a president trying to save face with the base that he made that promise to by showing them he is fighting for this. No, he is not going to get it. Everything you say makes sense. When you say that some of this is quite obvious. I want to back up and make sure we are clear. He is not holding a line to enforce the campaign promise. He is holding some sort of line to break the campaign promise. The promise was somebody else would pay for the wall, not the u. S. Government. He shut down the government on the claim he is going to make the u. S. Pay for the wall. Have you ever seen a president fight this hard to draw attention to the fact that he is trying to break the core promise that someone else would pay for it . No. And really to put a finer point on it, hes staging this fight in order to stage the fight. The fight is the point. Showing the base that whatever i promised and whatever is going to come out on the other end of it, i am fighting the democrats for this issue. Remember, before the shutdown, the president signaled his out by saying im going to build the wall whether they give me the money or not, the military is going to finish it. We already built a lot of it. Thats not true. They havent built any of the wall. It is a matter of what he can sell to his base. And he was prevented from doing so by people like ann colter and Rush Limbaugh a week or so ago. In fairness, congressman jolly. As you know ann colter is the secretary of Homeland Security. Its understandable that she would have Veto Authority over the important matters. Congressman, people often ask in this business and in politics in general, what is it going to take for republican a, b or c to step up and call out trump and speak truth the way some of them used to . And the answer often is retirement. Senator corker, take a look at what he said. Purposefully contrived fight. This is a made up fight so that the president can look like he is fighting. This is something that is unnecessary. Its a spectacle and candidly, its juvenile. The whole thing is juvenile. Congressman . Every republican senator not retiring deserves the indictment of the American People today. To your earlier point, Donald Trumps going to define this as Border Security and the democrats rightfully should define this as a lie to the American People that mexico is going to pay for this. Democrats should focus in on the lie and not on the fact that they need nuanced Border Security. There are a few offramps developing. One is the definition. You had that in the lead in. Is it a fence, a wall, Border Security . The reality is the senate bill actually says the pedestrian barrier has to be consistent with historical barriers of dhs. The president is ceding to that. Another thing that could happen, if the senate adds money, the house and senate could pass the same bill, donald trump doesnt have to sign it. After ten days that goes into law. Donald trump can say the congress did this. I dont agree with it. Im going to keep fighting for 5 billion. Do you think he knows that . I think his counselors are telling him that. Are you trying to tell him tonight as he is hold up alone in the white house watching tv. I think he is already losing and lost the fight. The reality is he is changing the definition of a wall. He realizes the senate and the house can pass a bill and he doesnt have to sign it at all and it will go into effect. Those are options where he can declare some notional success and also walk away without his tail fully between his legs. To congressman jollys fight about fighting over the definition, nancy pelosi said this evening that i think trump will be satisfied with a beaded curtain at this point. Look for democrats to i saw that comment. Is that like a reference to what they put in frupt ont of a fire place . Is it the kind that separates like in a place like a dorm room. You see it in college dorm rooms. David, would you vote dorm room or a fire place . This is the president capitulating. Here is the third opportunity, though. He cant answer a joke question. This is actually important. Beaded curtain. Which one . You are not going to pick . Beaded curtain is better than artistic steel slats. Congressman, we give you the last word on policy before we go. There are seven appropriation bills that have not been signed. Six of them are already agreed to. Only dhs has the hiccup. The president and the congress could agree to reopen the government for six appropriation bills which could be the rest of the government but for four percent they could do that. Mr. Congress and mr. Economy, you both have made salient points about what may be a farce, but a farce with some consequences. Thanks to both of you. Coming up, there is outrage but also understandably deep heartbreak after an 8yearold boy has died in u. S. Border patrol custody. That was on Christmas Eve. It is the second child to die this month. Democratic leaders say they are demanding answers from the Trump Administration as they come to power. We are joined on the important story next. 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The most common side effect is nausea. For me chantix worked. Boom. End of story. Talk to your doctor about chantix. For the second time this month a child has died in the custody of u. S. Customs and border protection. An 8yearold boy from guatemala died on Christmas Eve. The causes are currently unknown. His mother telling reuters im sad and in despair over the death of my son. His death comes three weeks after a 7yearold girl died after being detained. Today democratic lawmakers are calling for immediate hearings as well as new legislation that would require Health Standards for federal immigration agencies which may address part of what they view as the problem. Here is congressman. He would become House Majority leader literally within a week saying after this new democratic must just begins, the house will hold hearings on this young boys death and the death of 7yearold jakelin earlier this month. Deputy of Homeland Security announced she will travel to the u. S. mexico border this week. Here is how secretary neilsen sponted responded last week regarding the number of migrants who have died in u. S. Custody. You do not know how many human beings have died while in the custody of the department that you lead and you in preparation for todays hearing you didnt ascertain that number. You dont know it today . I dont have an exact figure for you. Do you have a rough idea . Im talking about people who died in your custody. You dont have the number . I will get back to you with the number. Im joined by the president of voter latino. I appreciate you joining us on this important topic. I know you are making sure to do that through some digital technical barriers we have had. Can you hear me okay . I can. This is an important story. When you look at what we are learning, what is the cause . Is it clear from the evidence it is worse under trump . How can the United States fix what i dont think most americans would ever want happening in the name of our Border Security which is these apparently avoidable deaths of young children. Well, i think it is very clear that secretary neilsen is absolutely not prepared for this office. She has over 240,000 federal employees that she has to oversee and is completely illrepaired. The idea she cannot answer how many individuals died under her custody these are policies that could have been prevented. They are measures we have been able to process individuals for before. Between her and President Trump, when they decided that they were going to start closing ports of entry when they were going to tear gas families trying to go through the legal channels through ports of entries, she and the president forced individuals to go and make more dangerous areas to cross the border because as you know in order to seek asylum you have to officially cross a border. With the border closures we are finding that individuals are looking for different ways to enter including the young man, the 8 year old with his father. So these are exasperating issues because unfortunately the president and the secretary neilsen are creating much more pressures for these families instead of allowing for them to cross the border and follow asylum laws. And for the viewers who are watching, these are asylum laws that the American Government created. We actually set the standard across the world. Now we are failing these families and we are failing our own institutions in our own laws. Its very well put the way you explain it and it comes amidst the back drop where the Supreme Court with john roberts siding with more traditionally democratic appointed justices have pushed back against Donald Trumps effort to narrow asylum although the case will continue. I want to play as well from the commissioner. There is plenty of vote passing in washington that predates trump. Given what we have reported and the loss to these lives, this seemed like really unfortunate buck passing. Take a look. Our stations are not built for that group that is crossing today. They were built 30, 40 years ago for single adult males. We need a different approach. We need help from congress. We need to budget for medical care and Mental Health care and for children in our facilities. Your view of that response and where congress does fit in . All im hearing is that they want to fund more of our taxpayer dollars to hold children in detention for long periods of time. Lets not forget under the obama administration, individuals seeking asylum would basically receive an ankle bracelet and a court date. 90 of the individuals would show up in court. Instead Trump Administration is detaining families and processing them for a lot longer. The death of this child, he was in four different facilities. He unfortunately didnt receive medical care upon arrival at the first detention facility that he received. There were all these lapses in the system. Instead of going back to a proven record that actually works of processing these individuals, the Trump Administration wants to detain these children and their families for indefinite periods of time exacerbating a system that is broken and trying to use them as red meat for his base. There is absolutely no reason that we are not providing a humanitarian response when these individuals try to seek basic resources. Thank you for your expertise on this. We will stay on the story i know and i know you will keep working on it. Thank you for your time tonight. Thank you for covering it. Coming up, is the Supreme Court now directly overseeing a grand jury subpoena linked to bob mueller . What we know about this fight and the super secret subpoena that everyone in washington is buzzing about. E in washington s buzzing about. 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The Supreme Court has just begun considering mysterious grand jury subpoena potentially related to bob muellers probe ordering a week long stay in the ongoing subpoena fight which many people have linked to mueller. Now, the case involves a mystery company. So its not defined. We know it is according to the briefs owned by a Foreign Government which is fighting this federal prosecutors grand jury subpoena. The company lost initial efforts to block on appeal and was going to be held on contempt. Justice roberts pausing that. The Supreme Court has basically five days to decide whether to hear the case. Court filings have been short on details. If the justices do intervene this would be the first time the full Supreme Court hears a kmeetly sealed court case. That is a big deal. If it is mueller related it is an even bigger deal. After this break, were going to break down that big deal. Break down tt habig deal. 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You need to face those jerks who beat you up. Welcome to hope. I have my friends and they cant take that away from me. Weve got your back hogan. From the groundbreaking director for forrest gump. Woo hoo hoo hoo and. Were one in the same, pal. If i can be a hero, so can you. In marwen, anything is possible. Hell yeah. Now, i would suspect this could indicate that bob mueller has opened up a line of investigation that would look at finances. Do you think this is china, russia, saudi arabia, or Something Else . Or germany. Right . Or deutscheland. Deutsche bank. My gut as a former prosecutor tells me this is bankingrelated. Playing a little subpoena bingo there. I was interviewing democratic congressman Eric Swalwell on the beat discussing what everyones been talking about, this muellerlinked mystery subpoena case according to a lot of experts. Jill winebanks is a former Watergate Special prosecutor and legal analyst at msnbc. Nice to see you tonight. Good evening. Nice to be here. Let me put to you the same question a lot of us lawyers have been talking about. Your former water. Cocounsel, if you will, nick ackerman, believes its a chinese financial institution. Others say that its more likely a hostile foreign country other than china, one that might fit more in muellers orbit. What do you think . Well, im sorry that the broach i ordered of a fortune tellers crystal ball hasnt arrived yet because maybe then i could answer the question. But really were left with total speculation because the facts that are known to us are so scant that we really cant tell. I think theres some reason to believe it is not a bank, that it is a corporation that is owned by a Foreign Government and that would pretty much eliminate deutsche bank. It could be a chinese bank. But theres reason to think its not a bank. In the beginning of course speculation was that the subpoena was for the president. That seems to be completely out of the ballpark, even though many people now think that russia owns the president. I dont think hes a Corporation Owned by them. So its not him. Well, jill, corporations are people. Yes. Yes, that is true. The Supreme Court said that. So maybe. Its really almost impossible because of grand jury secrecy to tell. And i think people have to understand as much as we want to know what this is its sealed for a reason. It clearly involves a grand jury because the title of it is in re grand jury subpoena. So we know that its for a grand jury. We dont even know that its a mueller grand jury. It could be right. Weve mentioned that in our reporting and i appreciate you reemphasizing that. There are some clues that go in that direction but that certainly is not confirmed by the court papers and the special counsel as is their usual commenting one way or the other. It would be handy if they told you hey, its not us. But they havent done that either. You cant read into that. Lets go to the other part thats a little less speculative because it goes to present, which is whats the Supreme Court doing here in giving this delay and how would they even handle as i allude td to earlier in the program the very rare case of a sealed hearing . Well, its very unusual. As far as i know, its the first time theres been a completely sealed hearing. And it was so basically sealed back in the court of appeals that the courthouse floor that it was argued on was closed to all other persons who werent involved in it. So again, its really speculation as to whats happening. I think that we just dont know enough to guess who it is. We can guess that its really important or it wouldnt have gotten to the Supreme Court. But what theyve done now is really a technical hold, basically. Its not a major decision. They are going to hold off having a penalty imposed on this foreignowned company until they decide whether theyre going to take the case. Youre saying we just dont know . That is unfortunately what im saying. Well, jill, i know that you are sometimes a fan of the group wutang clan. Yes. But this is a little more notorious b. I. G. He used to say if you dont know now you know. But here its more if you dont know now you dont know. And we just have to wait. I think thats exactly right. And it will be at some point in our history well find out who it is. But its not right now. And well have to wait just like we have to wait to see whether mueller is going to have a report in february or not. Right. Well, well be waiting on that and your new pins. And as always i like learning a little bit of extra law from you. So jill winebanks, really appreciate you joining us tonight. Thank you very much for having me. Absolutely. Up next, tonights last word. Save up to 10 when you bundle with esurance. Including me, esurance spokesperson dennis quaid. Hes a pretty good spokesperson. Ehhh. 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The 85yearold justice with two cancerous nodules removed if her lung on friday is now out. Doctors say theres no evidence of any remaining disease and shes recuperating at her home in new york. She had been treated for cancer you may remember twice while on the court. Both times she made a full recovery and didnt miss any argument sessions. The court is next scheduled to hear arguments on january 7th. That is tonights last word. A little update. If you want to catch my show its at 6 00 p. M. Eastern on msnbc and tomorrow we have former solicitor general Walter Dellinger and saturday night lives chris redd. Tonight on all in. Were no longer the suckers, folks. And people arent looking at us as suckers. A surprise christmas trip to iraq. If you would have seen what we had to go through with the darkened plane with all windows closed. Tonight the president s shaky holiday from the ongoing shutdown whatever it takes were going to have a wall. To the death of another child