Transcripts For MSNBCW The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell 20171223

We still havent reached the oneyear mark. That does it for us tonight. See you again next week. Now its time for the last word with ali velshi. Im sorry. The list is long. Im riveting by it. Times of staff change, as well, rachel. Very well put. Thank you, my friend. We have a fun thing coming up tonight. You get out soon and you should watch this. Or get home in time to watch it. Okay. Just in time for the holidays, the staff put together a look back at the best moments from these very conversations that you have every night with lawrence. Oh god. Spoiler alert, theres going to be some blushing and may not want to be in public. You guys super cut the me and lawrence crossovers . Uhhuh. Okay. This is part one. Have a great weekend. Thank you, ali. All right. It looked like all smiles this week at the trump prous but behind the scenes tension and frustrations boiled over as those closest to donald trump gave him a warning. Its a blood bath for republicans. According to the wednesday celebration. Trump aides and outside advisers held a spirited and at times tense discussion with the president. Quote, the gathering saw tempers flare as aids vented the frustrations and concerns about the 2018 political map. Complaints about the president s political operation and the Republican National committee boiled over playing out in front of the president as an inner circle drama. The New York Times reports the meeting devolved into a heating argument of lieuwen ski and he told the president that his government staff and political advisers at the Party Committee were doing little to help him. Heres how politico described the mood of trumps inner circle. Quote, those closest are bracing for a blood bath in the 2018 midterms and could obliterate the majorities and paralyze the agenda and politico reports that Mitch Mcconnell said privately that both chambers could be lost in november. Mitch mcconnell is just two lost senate seats from losing the majority in the senate after roy moores loss in alabama last week. Today mcconnell sarcastically praised the man some see as responsible for that alabama loss. Do you blame steve bannon for doug jones being elected in alabama . Well, let me just say this the political genius on display throwing away a seat in the reddest state in america is hard to ignore. With the 2018 prospects looking increasingly bad for republicans, Mitch Mcconnell and President Trump said today they want to work with democrats. Something they chose not to do when passing their tax bill and trying to pass their health care bills. Without a single democratic vote. Heres what they said. I really do believe and i said on social media today, i believe well have a lot of bipartisan work done and maybe we start with infrastructure because i really believe infrastructure can be bipartisan. I dont think most of our democratic colleagues want to do nothing. And there are areas i think where we can get bipartisan agreement. All right. Joining us now is charlie cook, editor and publisher of the cook report and also neera tan den, president of the center for American Progress and norm orion steen, a congressional scholar and the coauthor of one nation after trump. Welcome the all three of you. Norm, i start with you. You wrote a book 11 years ago and the subtitle was how congress is failing america. And you actually want to revise some of the conclusions you came to in that. Yeah. That book really cast a lot of blame on both parties for the decline of congress as a deliberative body, as a body that really debated and worked together and used the rules in an appropriate fashion to allow all the members to have a say and a buyin and now its really cheer what we have is acy metric and seen it on display this year with an allrepublican congress. The idea of now turning to bipartisanship after tax bill that is unlike anything that i have seen ever in almost 50 years in washington in terms of giving a middle finger to the normal process shutting out democrats who wanted to be involved like joe manchin, its almost absurd that theyre now stretching out a hand for help and its help, ali, just because theyre scared to death that they could lose bigley next year. Neera, is it true what Mitch Mcconnell said at some point if the hand of bipartisanship is extended that the democrats would be wrong to bite that hand . I dont think democrats are going to bite any hand. I think the reality is that the president has been not just hyper partisan. Hes viciously attacked one democrat after another. Hes not only attacked schumer and pelosi, he just just last week had vicious, disgusting attack against keer sten gillibrand. You know, the mo does opinion randy of donald trump is one half of the 1 of his time talking about bipartisanship and 99 of the time attacking groups of people, mostly democrats. I dont find it credible but i also think hes really burned a lot of bridges. It is really hard for democrats to actually work with him when hes been when hes gone after immigrants, when hes gone after people of color. Hes really been so divisive and hard for democrats to meet him halfway. Charlie, when you take the politics out of this, look at the way the tax bill was done. It was not deliberative. It was not certainly not in the interests that republicans sold it as being. A middle class tax cut and not popular. It was all the things you wouldnt think congress would do about a bill and just without looking at the merits of the bill, it was a bad legislative process. Well, i think its sort of theology that just as democrats believe in a Strong Social safety net and generous entitlements and beefing up Social Security and medicare to the extent possible, any time you can, republicans believe that taxes are evil, that they should be cut whenever you have a chance and under any circumstances. And its just a matter of the theology of the republican party. And i think they got sort of captivated by that. And then a little bit of desperation since they were 03 in the other big top Priority Areas of border wall, infrastructure and repealing and replacing obamacare. So i think a little bit of desperation came in if we dont pass Something Big we are going to lose our majority in the house and maybe even the senate. So that this thing became a locomotive that nobody could really stop. And yeah. I was surprised that this went this far. And that they got it. Because, frankly, the politics of it dont make a lot of sense as you said. No. And, neera, i guess, i mean, it is a washington inside thing to think that, oh, well we get legislation. Soon enough, and by the way, maybe its not soon enough but maybe 2019 or the end of 2019 before middle class americans start to figure out that this was a teaser rate. Lots of people got a little tax cut for little while while Companies Got the biggest tax cut that we have seen in modern history. And at what point and how do democrats capitalize on this . Because the president has come out day after day championing this as a middle class tax cut. Yeah. Whats fascinating is donald trump has been, i mean, just to say it, lying about this legislation for months. And the American People saw through this. He said it was a middle class tax cuts. 67 believe it for what it is which is a massive tax cut for corporations and the super well think. And mostly corporations and the reality is in my view, barack obama passed middle class tax cuts in 2009. People didnt really feel it. George bush passed tax cuts in the early 2000s. People didnt really feel it. They were far larger than the pittance that are in the first couple of years of this tax cut. Neera, President Trump said just today this is the biggest tax cut in history. Said it repeatedly. Once again, once again, he was wrong. Obviously reagan had a biggest tax cut. This is a pretty large cut. The obama extension of the tax cuts, the bush tax cuts in 2013 bigger. The bush tax cuts. Norm, it is kind of fascinating and all the time that you and neera and charlie have been watching politics, never maybe i dont remember a time when people could lie with this sort of impunity. When the facts i mean, you see me every day and i try to explain to people whats going on in the tax bill and then the president says something entirely different. At some point, norm, either the 66 that neeras talking about are going to just stick to the fact that the president s wrong or his base is just going to continue to believe hes right. Where does it end . I want to give you props to you and Stephanie Ruhle and almost only ones to track this and showed what was in the as it went along but, you know, we live in an era where the authoritarian and autocratic notion to turn truth on the head and try to simply ab secure what reality is, is an era upon us and pushed by the administration. Before we go, though, ali, another factor to bring into this that ties into the election. Lindsey graham said the checkbooks will be closed and dark money is a major factor here. Now we see a huge sum put in by the billionaires and others that benefit from the tax bill to try to convince the American People that this was the greatest thing that ever happened to them. And there will be a huge amount of money going in through dark money into these campaigns trying desperately to hold on to the house and the senate. I dont think it will succeed for the reasons that neera suggested and this is a deeply unpopular bill. We have never seen a bill of this magnitude this unpopular. But thats a key factor here. Charlie, lets talk about how it plays out. On the latest polling from cnn shows the biggest democratic lead in 20 years among registered voters. Democrats 56 . Republicans at 38 . I think it would be foolish to predict the 2018 election in december of 2017. But for Mitch Mcconnell to reportedly be conceding to lose both houses, what do you think . Well, i mean, yes, tough do the caveat of its ten months away. Yeah. But president you know, midterm elections are referendum on the president and you have a president with the lowest job Approval Rating of any newly elected president in history. This were standing on a beach looking out at the ocean and were seeing what looks like a really, really, really big wave. Now, waves of the magnitude that this appears to be in the past would be 40 to 60, 65 seats in the house. Now, given where Congressional District boundaries are drawn and population patterns, a wave to do 45 to 60 seats might be 30 but 24 or more what democrats need are pretty good and given the states that are up, this is not likely to be a six, seven, eightseat gain for democrats in the senate but the chances of it being two seats and tipping the senate are a whole lot better than two or three months ago so both it is absolutely legitimate to say that both chambers are up in the air and if you had to bet in this moment on the house, youd say right now, well, it sure looks like its going to tip and the senate is plausible for the first time. I dont know if in this political environment id bet anything more than ten hours out let alone ten months. I dont bet on politics but this is a the tax bill will still be unpopular. This is what waves look like. I hear you. Thats why we count on you for expertise. Thank you for being with us. Merry christmas and happy holiday to all of you. Coming up, donald trump versus Robert Mueller. The president had been promised by the lawyers it would be all over soon but nothing could be further from the truth. Another busy day and as promised later we will have the best of the cross talks between rachel and lawrence in 2017. I used to have more hair. I used to have more color. And. I used to have cancer. I beat it. I did. Not alone. I used to have no idea what the American Cancer Society did. Research . Yeah. But also free rides to chemo and free lodging near hospitals. I used to maybe give a little. Then i got so much back. I used to have cancer. Please give at cancer. Org. Turn up your swagger game with one a day mens. A complete multivitamin with key Nutrients Plus b vitamins for heart health. Your one a day is showing. 2017 may be winding down but that is certainly not the case for the russia investigation. Bloomberg is reporting that President Trumps former chief strategist steve bannon and his former Campaign Manager Corey Lewandowski have been asked to testify. Both men sent letters requesting interviews for early next month. According to bloomberg, the invitation not in the form of a subpoena for a voluntary interview in the offices and held behind closed doors and official familiar with the Panel Schedule said. Nbc news reporting that the Intelligence Committee questioned the president s long Time Assistant rona graft in new york. The closed door meeting with the gatekeeper at trump tower more than three decades is the second one involving a trump associate this week. Felix sader was also questioned. Both graft and saiter met with the committee at an undisclosed location in new york over the objections of democrats who want it held in washington, d. C. Meanwhile, house jont leader nancy pelosi concerned that republicans are pushing to end the house intelligence investigation has written to Speaker Paul Ryan urging him to keep the probe open. Ryans spokeswoman responded in part, quote, to suit her political agenda, leader pelosi would like to see this investigation go on forever. And all of these developments with the congressional investigations are happening as were still awaiting details of the highly anticipated meeting between President Trumps lawyers and special counsel Robert Muellers investigators. According to several reports, the two teams were supposed to meet at some point this week. Joining me now are betty woodruff, reporter for the daily beast and paul butler, professor at Georgetown University and former federal prosecutor, both msnbc contributors. Betsy, let me start with you. This back and forth between pelosi and ryan about the house Intelligence Committee investigation, i think it would strike most laypeople as strange because we know that this investigation is still ongoing. We know from Robert Mueller we even know from the senate side which seemed the republicans and democrats seem to play better on the senate side than the house side so the idea that republicans on the house side want to wrap this up quickly does smell a little of politics. Certainly. Without a doubt. And the fact that paul ryans office would suggest that democrats are the only ones who could potentially be charged with allegations of playing politics when it comes to this investigation is on its face a little goofy. That said, of course, one thing that we know sure about the house Intelligence Committees russia probe is that theyre getting a lot of really interesting information. An its interesting dynamic with this particular committee because on the one hand its the investigation thats had the most major, major hiccups. Devin nunezs trip to the white house. We have had lots and lots of rolling skirmishes of adam schiff and nunez. Lots of very public airing of grievances, leaks to media. Same time, though, this committees finding out lots and interesting stuff. Theyre getting tons of documents. Theyre interviewing very high profile witnesses. Releasing transcripts of those intereventuals. A lot of what we know is based on the investigation and may be why republicans are a little bit nervous of it continuing much longer. Notably, the house the Senate Intelligence chairman richard burr did not go to the white house this week for the celebration about the tax bill saying that while this investigation is undergoing, hes keeping his distance. Paul, mike pence talked to cbs today about Michael Flynn and i thought this was notable. Lets listen to what he said. Just clarify how you understand what happened with mike flynn. When he was fired, did you know he had lied to the fbi . I knew he lied to me and i know the president made the right decision with regard to him. Paul, youre a former prosecutor. That answer wouldnt work in comfort. It is not responsive. Objection, your honor. Tell the witness to answer the question. Right. Did you know that flynn lied to the fbi . Up to now pences defense has been i dont know nothing about nothing. He didnt know about the wikileaks. He didnt know about trump jr. s meeting with the russian lawyer. He didnt know about flynns discussions about the sanctions. Again, thats starting to look a little thin especially now that mueller is talking to flynn. So flynn apparently has told mueller stuff that makes him want to have a sitdown with the vice president. Where does this tell you this is going . Just with respect to the conversation we were just having about the House Intel Committee to wrap it up. On the mueller side, this got interesting with the flynn deal. Indeed. The hill investigations are political and more transparent. We dont know how long mueller is going to continue the investigation. We know hes got two people under indictment. At least another year. Trumps lawyers have floated this beautiful twisted fantasy that the investigations going to be over. First they said and then thanksgiving and then christmas and the new year. Its very unlikely. This is going to go on well into 2019. Senator warner, betsy, on thursday was at an event hosted by axios and he said that the Senate Investigation into this is the most important thing hes ever done in his life. Lets listen. We have not reached any conclusions but the importance of what were doing i said a year ago, this is the most important thing ill ever work on. I feel that more strongly today than even a year ago. Make sense for us. This is going on for a while. They have seen things happen in the mueller investigation. And in the other investigations. But a lot of people havent seen exactly what theyre looking for so how do warner and the democrats continue to keep the interest in this going and the support for their investigations going . I dont think theres much dearth of interest but important to understand is that theres a whole lot about the nature of the connections between the kremlin and the american political process that we just dont know. Now, we do know that capitol hill has been much leakier than the Mueller Probe coming to sort of telegraphing what theyre working on, found out. At the same time, though, theres a lot of interesting information that has not been leaked and ely jo cummings indicated that a couple of weeks ago when they said theyd known about a controversial conversation mike flynn had had, i believe, from the dias of the capitol in the inauguration and cummings Committee Sat on the information for months. It did not leak because they were deferring to mueller and to his team. We can say with a lot of confidence that warner and democrats are doing the same thing. In fact, i believe in that same axios interview warner said he expects more indictments out of muellers team and warner probably knows a significant amount about the trajectory of where mueller is going, what information he might have and additional criminal liabilities for folks in trumps orbit. From an investigative perspective, paul, while theres disarray theyre wokking the right way with the investigation. Cooperating. Reportedly that the document and senate and house committees get they share with the special counsel and what you want to happen and not competition. You dont want it to be explicitly political so here to fore it seems like the system is working well. Paul, the Washington Post reporting on a ruling tonight by the ninth kir sit court of appeals on the President Trump travel ban. A federal Appeals Court panel on friday ruled that the third entry ban violates the law. The threejudge panel with the u. S. Court of appeals for the ninth circuit ruled that trump had again exceeded the Lawful Authority issuing the latest been and they did not make a legally sufficient finding that the entry of those blocked detrimental to the interest of the United States. Interesting ruling. Limited effect at the moment. The ninth circuit, threepanel judge three judges on the panel go in for the trump administration. Say he exceeded the powers with the ban. He doesnt have that right to do that as president and substantively its discrimination. Practically the Supreme Courts already reviewing this and we have to wait and see what the court decides. Paul, thank you very much. Betsy, you too. Merry christmas to both of you. Merry christmas. You, too. Coming up, the race to erase americas democratic norms. How President Trump is following the despot play book and the year in review of the cross talks. You will have to see this. Do you want clean, stain free dentures . Try polident. The four in one cleaning system kills 99. 99 of odor causing bacteria, cleans where brushing may miss. Helps remove stains and prevent stain build up. Use polident daily. You for four years. You named it brad. You loved brad. And then you totaled him. You two had been through everything together. Two boyfriends, three jobs. Youre like nothing can replace brad. Then Liberty Mutual calls. And you break into your happy dance. If you sign up for better car replacement™, well pay for a car thats a model year newer with 15,000 fewer miles than your old one. Liberty stands with you™. Liberty mutual insurance. Are you considering firing Robert Mueller . No, im not. No. What else . What are you, surprised . Debt spite that denial, a number of former federal prosecutors wrote a letter to the president today warning him against firing Robert Mueller. Writing, seeking muellers removal would have severe repercussions for americans sense of justice here at home and for reputations for fairness around the world. And in a separate letter today, some 20 former republican officials including former defense secretary chuck hagel defended Robert Mueller and his investigation writing, we reject recent efforts to discredit mueller. These efforts undermine the institutions that protect the rule of law and so our nation. Mueller must be allowed to complete his investigation without interference. We hope that the country will give the special counsels findings the respect they deserve, whatever they may be. At todays tax bill signing, the president didnt answer questions about russia and did find a way to take a jab at the media. In the middle of thanking the companies that plan to give their workers bonuses after the tax bills passage, President Trump said this. I want to thank at t who actually was the first out of the box and boeing and sinclair and wells fargo and comcast, even though they own nbc which is not so nice to the presidency or the president. All right. Joining us no is brian kloss, a former of politics at London School of politics. Brian, good to see you. Thank you for being with us. Heres a little bit more of what donald trump had to say a little bit earlier. Lets listen. Legislative approvals for which ive given no credit in the mainstream credit, we have, i believe its 88, which is number 1 in the history of our country. Second now is harry truman. Harry truman had more legislative approvals than any other president. And a record long held and we beat him on legislative approvals with which i get no credit. Its worth noting that President Trump is behind other president s in the first year when it comes to signing legislation into law. Bill clinton at this point by december 22nd had 208 pieces. George bush 102. Barack obama 121. Donald trump 96. We dont know when the president says something what hes referring to because he said it was the biggest tax cut in history. It is not. Putting the lies aside, the delegislate mitization of the presidency and the institutions and the attack on the fbi, this is out of handbook and done before with disastrous results following. Thats exactly right. And its clear that donald trump is a wannabe despot or the despots apprentice and wishes for a system of no independent fact checkers, no independent media, no checks and balances that functioned or challenged him and why hes trying to attack and demonize the enemy of the people. Called them a stain on america. He uses divide and attack strategies and now trying to wield the weapon of the rule of law as a weapon against the enemies challenging those who are investigating him and pardoning political allies and you look at this and you see around the world people like turkey and russia who eroded any sort of constraints on their power and became the despots that they wanted to become so i think the question here is how does america respond because this is not a drill. And theres a real threat to american democracy. You know, you talk about mao and sta tin, franco, mussolini, hitler, yugoslavia and rwanda and in all of those cases, every single one of them, the institutions of government and the press could not withstand the momentum of the despot. Thats right. So you have to separate these two things out. You have the person, right, whether they have authoritarian instincts and the system. The system of the United States is the most robust that any sort of wannabe despot has gone up against and doesnt mean that trump is any less dangerous with the same instincts and he is not mussolini because there are huge constraints on him. He wishes to have more power, fewer checks, fewer balances to challenge any of his whims or impulses so, you know, this is where we have to determine how we respond as a country. And its not about partisanship at all. Its something that why i talk about is two years ago my comments were nonpartisan and the rule of law should be apolitical, no family members in general surrounding the president. You shouldnt delegitimatize the press and cherric them. All of these things are things that beused to all agree on and i think if you described whats happening in america in 2017 to somebody in 2014 or 2015, they would think youre talking about turkey or russia, not the United States, and that is where we need to have a serious wakeup call as a country and brush aside partisan differences to defend democracy. Brian, well said. Thank you for joining us tonight. The book is the despots apprentice Donald Trumps attack on democracy. Thank you for joining us tonight. Thanks for having me. Coming up later, President Trump is trying to drown obamacare but the American Public isnt letting him. Thats coming up. First, we have been teeasing yo all night. The best of lawrence and rachels cross talks. Your wait is over after the break. Its easy to think that all Money Managers are pretty much the same. But while some push High Commission investment products, Fisher Investments avoids them. Some advisers have hidden and layered fees. Fisher investments never does. And while some advisers are happy to earn commissions from you whether you do well or not, Fisher Investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. Maybe thats why most of our clients come from other Money Managers. Fisher investments. Clearly better money management. When you have a cold, stuff happens. { sneezing ] shut down cold symptoms fast [ coughing ] with maximum strength alka seltzer plus liquid gels. My wish was a clubhouse, but we call it the wish house. People visit National Parks from all over the world. Food tastes better when you dont have to cook it. He was just supposed to be my dog. I dont know why. vo were proud that, on behalf of our owners, the subaru share the love event will have donated over one hundred fifteen Million Dollars in just ten years. Get 0 financing for 63 months on select models. Plus well donate 250 to charity. Now that the war on christmas is over, what do you give someone who has everything . How about a few minutes of joy, smiles and laughs . Many of the msnbc prime time viewers are big fans of the handoff between rachel and lawrence. Michael writes, my favorite part of the show is where they banter for a few minutes. They should do a half hour together between shows. Kenya writes, seriously, i would watch an hour of mad dow and lawrence just talking to each other. Love them. Rosy gets more specific. I would love a whole hour of just watching lawrence make mad dow blush. Well, it is not an entire hour but just in time for the holidays, here now is a look back at a year of rachel and lawrence. Now time for the last word with lawrence odonnell. You Pay Attention to american politics. Sort of. To have beaten bob marshall, the guy that authored the virginia bathroom transban, it shows you that sometimes history is written with a Caps Lock Key on, right . Sometimes history is not subtle. Feels like tonights history is being written by movie writers. It is so dramatic. Unsubtle movie writer ice does someone teach the president what medicaid is . What is teach . I dont know. I dont know what what works now. I dont know. If this goes on at this pace for another 18 months, im going to need to drop some doppelgangers from the parallel dimension and cant work this hard every day. Maybe you might want more commercials for a change. Well sell more pills. The audience loves that suggestion. More commercials. Sorry about this. Im trying to get harris to talk to me. I bow down before thee. Come on. That is first. I think its a television first. That someone is appearing on this program instead of the number one rated cable news show with the biggest audience in the all of cable news the Rachel Maddow show. I see what you did there. Now you have me blushing so i have to turn away. Its that time of year and so i have your present. Its right here. Huh oh. Its its actually the one donald trump promised you. It is it is the wicked big republican tax bill. Thank you for one. Also, i didnt get you anything yet. All right. Well ill tomorrow. Im used to that by now. You are going to have to make more room at home for another emmy that you won tonight while you were working here on the show. Somebody yelled something to me as i was running out on to the set from the hallway. Okay. But i havent talked to anybody about it yet. Thats very nice of you to say. Thank you very much. Thank you, rachel. Goodbye. I did it again. So easy. Embarrassing rachel. I know you have to run out of the builting because its friday night an by 10 15 friday night you are deep in new york night life i know. And i got to let you go. But this is a special russia night for the last word because we have coming up in the show Vladimir Putins worst nightmare, pussy riot is here. Oh my god. Live in new york live in studio. What . Here tonight. Are you serious . Yes. Say hello before you leave the building. Okay. Right there. On your floor. Bye. Ill be right there. Heres the irony. That wasnt even the best of the best moments. You can see that one week from tonight in the last word holiday spesh. All right. Up next, why is President Trump lying about the fate of obamacare . Coaching means making tough choices. Jim youre in but when you have high Blood Pressure and need Cold Medicine that works fast, the choice is simple. Coricidin hbp is the 1 brand that gives powerful cold symptom relief without raising your Blood Pressure. Coricidin hbp. one is the only number that youll ever need staying ahead isnt about waiting for a chance. Because one is. Its about the one bold choice you make that moves you forward. That you ever need the one and only Cadillac Escalade. Come in for our seasons best offers and drive out with the perfect 2017 Cadillac Escalade for you. Get this low mileage lease from around 899 per month. we are the tv doctors of america, and we may not know much about medicine, but we know a lot about drama. We also know that you can avoid drama by getting an annual checkup. So go, know, and take control of your health. It could save your life. Cigna. Together, all the way. It could save your life. Before i hadburning,oting, pinsandneedles of diabetic nerve pain, these feet. Grew into a freewheeling kid. Loved every step of fatherhood. And made old cars good as new. But i couldnt bear my diabetic nerve pain any longer. So i talked to my doctor and he prescribed lyrica. Nerve damage from diabetes causes diabetic nerve pain. Lyrica is fda approved to treat this pain, from moderate to even severe diabetic nerve pain. Lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions, suicidal thoughts or actions. Tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worse depression, unusual changes in mood or behavior, swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling or blurry vision. Common side effects dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain, swelling of hands, legs, and feet. Dont drink alcohol while taking lyrica. Dont drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. Those whove had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. Now i have less diabetic nerve pain. And i love smoothing the road ahead for others. Ask your doctor about lyrica. President trump declared on friday that obamacare is over as he signed into law the republican tax bill that repeals obamacares individual mandate. The individual mandate which is a very unfair and very unpopular provision as you know in obamacare essentially i think it ultimately leads to the end of obamacare. Its essentially i think obamacare is over because of that. Many people thought it should have been overturned in the Supreme Court. Didnt quite make it. Almost. But didnt make it. Now we are overturning. Most unpopular thing in obamacare. Very, very unfair. Even though President Trump claims obamacare is dead, its still very much the law. During the open Enrollment Period for 2018 coverage, nearly 9 million americans signed up for Health Insurance. That number down from last years 9. 2 million signups and exceeded expectations despite an Enrollment Period half as long as a 90 cut to advertising made by the trump administration. While the tax bill does repeal the individual mandate other important provisions of the Affordable Care act are in place including subsidies of individual policies, Medicaid Expansion and protections for people with preexisting conditions. President trump kept the focus on the individual mandate repeal tweeting later in the day, remember, the most hated part of obamacare is the individual mandate which is being terminated under our just signed tax cut bill. Senate majority leader Mitch Mcconnell didnt say obamacare is dead today. Here he is calling on senators to Work Together on health care legislation. The Graham Cassidy proposal, they intend to obviously continue to work on. And my view of that is as soon as we have the votes to achieve it id like to do that. 5149 is a pretty tight majority. But id love to be able to make more substantial changes to obamacare than we have. Joining us now is julie robner chief correspondent at Kaiser Health news and understands this stuff better than almost anyone. Julie, the failing of American Health care compared to other wealthy countries around the world is that we do not have an adequately large and diverse risk pool for people who wish to buy insurance outside of their workplace. Thats what the individual mandate was supposed to achieve, getting more and more people to buy insurance so that youve got young and Healthy People along with the sick. Taking the mandate out, do we not end up once again with a shrunken risk pool of older and sicker people whose Health Care Costs more . Well, thats certainly possible but, you know, a lot of experts are sort of coming around to the conclusion that theres at least a possibility that the subsidies you talked about still there that help people afford coverage that those might be just as important if not more important than the mandate. Theres a lot of discussion about how how much of an impact the mandates actually had. The penalties were not all that large. Correct. The Congressional Budget Office is scaling back its estimatings about how much of an impact the mandate itself has had. And its possible particularly looking at the numbers for this year, the surprisingly large numbers and i should point out that enrollments not closed in all the places that are doing health closed in all the places that are doing health care. Gov and the numbers we got yesterday didnt count the people who signed up at the last minute. So its entirely possible the numbers will meet or surpass last years. So its not at all clear how much of an impact taking away the mandate will be. Although everybody assumes well see higher premiums, there may be bare spots, most likely in rural areas. But there might not be as much impact as perhaps people thought in 2012 when the Supreme Court was looking at this. Lets talk about rural areas. Right now the number is 8. 8, it may go up. But 7. 3 million of the 8. 8 Million Consumers signed up so far for next year come from states that trump won. This is from the associated press, come from states that trump won in the 2016 president ial election. The four states with the highest number of signups, florida, texas, north carolina, and georgia, accounting for nearly 3. 9 million customers, were all trump states. Whats donald trump missing about this . Well, i think he doesnt realize that the people who are being hurt by the parts of the law that hes taking apart, are his voters. The people who are being hurt right now, when he got rid of the subsidies for low income people, werent the low income people. The insurers just raised rates to cover that. The people being hurt are the people buying their own coverage who arent getting help with their premiums, those are by and large republicans. As i mentioned, the biggest difficulties are in rural areas where its harder for insurers to make money. Again, areas which are largely trump supporting. So hes ending up hurting his own supporters in what hes doing to the health law. Julie, you said there are other components of obamacare that might prove more valuable and this doesnt signal the end of obamacare. Medicaid expansion, this is something that a lot of people didnt think about, because they thought about the mandates and the mandatory coverage, but there are a lot of experts who tell me that they feel Medicaid Expansion was actually more impactful. Medicaid expansion has covered more people. There was always an expectation that it was going to be a big part of the coverage expansion. The two populations that have not traditionally been able to get their own coverage are people who are poor and in some states, poor enough to get medicaid, but dont meet one of the other categories. Theyre not disabled, elderly, pregnant women or children. And there were sick people who couldnt buy insurance because insurers wouldnt sell to them. What the Affordable Care act did more than anyone else, it let those people into the Health Insurance system. A number of senators have come out and said, this isnt over, they are going to revisit a real repeal and maybe a replacement of obamacare in 2018. Any sense of what that looks like . Well, i think one of the things that surprised a lot of people this year is how surprisingly popular medicaid is. Medicaid was always sort of the poor step child. Medicare was the program that policy makers, lawmakers were afraid to touch. And yet the efforts to really pare back medicaid, not just take away the expansion, but cap it overall, were met with enormous resistance from republicans as well as democrats. So i think they may be surprised at how difficult it is to scale back medicaid. Julie, good to see you. You too. Up next, the most dangerous man in america. When you have a cold, stuff happens. { sneezing ] shut down cold symptoms fast [ coughing ] with maximum strength alka seltzer plus liquid gels. Lets get the one with the candy canes. Well, you know, the wrapping paper doesnt make the holidays. Its whats inside that counts. Its a phone for mom. Okay, well, its also whats inside the phone that counts, too. Circuits . No, the network. So the network is inside the phone . Well, no, the networks around the phone. And verizon is the most awarded network ever. Thats why more people count on it. Here you go. announcer a gift is only as good as the network its on. So give any google pixel 2 and get 300 off with no tradein required. Today the highly anticipated movie the post opened in select theaters starring meryl streep and tom hanks. The movie is at the center of much oscar buzz. The film is directed by Steven Spielberg and focuses on the publication of the pentagon papers. Thousands of pages of top secret documents that exposed lies about americas role in the vietnam war. This weekend, msnbc is presenting a special documentary, the most dangerous man in a america, a reallife thriller about daniel els bu burgberg, the man to leaked the documents. I began kpeeroxing the mcnamara study in the fall of 1969. At the end of the day working at rand, i would put several volumes into my brief case to take with me. Walking past the security guards, i would feel my heart beating. I couldnt help thinking about the dozen or so secrecy agreements i had signed over the course of my career in government. The task seemed endless. I often worked through the night. Early in the morning, i returned the papers to my safe at rand and headed home. I get back to my house on a little narrow beach in malibu. I loved to body surf, and i would go in every morning before i went to bed, and i remember at some point during this, being in the waves, in the sunlight, and looking back at the hills and malibu and thinking, how can i be doing this . How can i be giving all this up . I was 13 at the time. He said there was a secret history of the vietnam war that hed been reading and he had a copy of this. And he had decided that he wanted to make a copy of it and make it available to congress. He described it in terms of civil disobedience, would i help him. I dont suppose he needed my help, but that this was something risky and very important to him, and it was important to him that i be a part of it in some way. And i think that very afternoon began copying the pentagon papers. Okay, youre not going to want to miss this. The most dangerous man in america, the special presentation right here on msnbc saturday night, 9 00 eastern. Up next, john meachem and peggy noonan look ahead to 2018. Thats next on the 11th hour with my friend, brian williams. Tonight the russia investigation that today followed the president on his christmas vacation in florida. And tonight theres word, a long time member of his inner circle has been interviewed by investigators. Plus, all smiles earlier at the white house, but behind the scenes, reports of growing alarm at what the new year might bring, including renewed scrutiny for jared kushner. And the unusual sound heard across a small area of manhattan. The unusual site out west, all of it explained as the 11th hour gets under way on a friday night. And