Transcripts For MSNBCW The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell 20170511

Tomorrow night. Ill see you then. Now its time for the last word with lawrence odonnell. Lace, m sorry to take 40 seconds of your program. Were all on the same story. Were going to stay on this breaking coverage because the story is developing and has been developing as you have been speak. Yep. There is a latebreaking report in the New York Times tonight saying that the director comey told associates, these are words that he used after President Trump accused president obama of having wiretapped trump tower. Comey according to New York Times told associates that the president was, quote, outside the realm of normal, quote, even crazy. So there is the director of the fbi being quoted by people who he spoke to saying the president of the United States is, quote, crazy. Using that word about the president of the United States in the aftermath of what we all called crazy that saturday morning tweet madness about president obama wiretapping trump tower. And it is one thing for the word crazy to be used as any ad homonym epithet. Its one thing if i use it. Or any of us. Coming from the fbi director who apparently people he spoke to now feel free to share those things that he came to believe about the president in his oneonone interact was the president , now that the president has fired him, thats a different magnitude. And rachel, you dont have a firing like this, you dont he a day like this at the fbi yesterday, a day like no other fbi has gone through. You dont have a day like that without producing comments like this. You are going to shake loose the leak tree. And this is whether james comey wants this kind of stuff leak order not, people who feel strongly about this are going to make these kinds of things known. Yeah. You dont there is a reason when people have incriminating stuff on you, those interest people you avoid firing. Those are the people you keep close. Those are the people you bribe and dont threaten because you dont want the make enemies of people who are in a position to out you. For stuff that theyve got dead to rights. And we dont know if thats the situation here, but thats a general principle of life from the playground to the ceo office to politics. Great reporting during your hour, rachel. Really important. Thank you so much. Thank you. Well r, well, it is all rea now. You can ignore the speech making. You can ignore the press briefings, especially the White House Press briefings. Always ignore those. You can definitely ignore the tweets. You can ignore all of that. Because now, now its subpoena time. This is the day that the Trump White House was hoping would never come. Subpoenas are the Nuclear Weapons of political life. And no one in politician who has ever received a subpoena has ever had a worst day than the day that subpoena arrived, unless, unless that person ended up as a criminal defendant. And then that person had a lot of worse days. And that could be the fate in store for President Trumps First National security adviser michael fln, who at 6 30 this evening was hit with a subpoena from the Senate Intelligence committee demanding that he deliver documents relevant to the committees investigation into russian interference with the 2016 election. General flynn has refused to cooperate with the investigation in the senate. And so tonight he and his lawyers are staring at that subpoena, wondering whether to comply or to plead the fifth amendment. Because replying to that subpoena could incriminate him in criminal activity. The day after President Trump dealt with fbi director james comey the way Vladimir Putin would have, russian officials publicly joked about the american governments predicament of having had its democracy attacked by the russian government. And those russian officials joked about it on the way in to a meeting with the president of the United States. Where the Russian Ambassador and the ruin foreign minister were better received than germanys chancellor merkel, who is actually an ally of the United States. Nbcs Andrea Mitchell asked Russian Foreign minister Sergei Lavrov if the comey firing would cast a shadow over his talks with the president today. And the russian forei minister standing in the state department beside our secretary of state decided that would be a perfectly good place to mock the United States, the day after the man leading the investigation of russian interference in our election was fired. Does the comey firing cast a shadow over your talks, gentlemen . Youre kidding. Following his meeting at the state department, foreign minister lavrov had a meeting far above his pay grade. The Foreign Ministers pay grade in the secretary of state. Thats not the same for the Russian Foreign minister who as of tonight is the most favored foreign minister in the portland by President Trump. President trump welcomed the foreign minister into the oval office along with the Russian Ambassador, sergey kislyak. It was conversations with kislyak that got miked flynn fired. Former acting attorney general sally yates rushed to the white house to warn the White House Council about general flynns contact with ambassador kislyak and possibly other information. Today Michael Flynn is not allowed in the Russian Office anymore, but the Russian Ambassador is very welcome. After meeting with the russians, President Trump welcomed the press core where he was meeting with Henry Kissinger who served as secretary of state to president richard nixon, the most disgraced president in american history. A president driven from office on the eve of impeachment for crimes committed in the room where Henry Kissinger was meeting with donald trump today. Why did you fire director comey . Because he wasnt doing a good job, very simply. He was not doing a good job. Did it affect your meeting with the russians today . Excuse me . Did it affect your meeting with the russians today . Not at all. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. Will the new director of the fbi be in charge of the Russian Investigation . That question will be asked tomorrow at a Senate Russian intelligence meeting where the acting director of the meeting andrew mckay will appear. Nbc news reported today that the senior congressional official with direct knowledge told nbc news that james comey briefed congress in recent days that he had requested more staff and money for the russia investigation from Deputy Attorney general Rod Rosenstein. And dianne feinstein, the vice chair of the Judiciary Committee told reporters today, quote we know there are subpoenas being requested in the Eastern District of virginia, and that this investigation has been going on. I just want to correct that. She is not the vice chair of that committee. That committee doesnt have a vice chair. Only Intelligence Committees have vice chairs. She is the senior ranking democrat on the Judiciary Committee. Now those subpoenas being issued in a criminal investigation, theyre being issued in a criminal investigation. Theyre not congressional subpoenas. The federal prosecutor. And those subpoenas are even more chilling than the subpoenas issued by congress. Because as a federal crimil investign, we have much less information abou those subpoenas. Well dont know who is meeting with their lawyers tonight, trying to evaluate the possible criminal liability they might face in responding to those subpoenas. In the eastern Federal District of virginia. Justcross the river, across the Potomac River from washington, d. C. Vladimir putin was asked today about the firing of james comey. And he seemed as happy as we have ever seen him when asked about u. S. Russia relations. How will the firing of james comey affect u. S. Russian relations . There will be no effect. Your question looks very funny to me. We have nothing to do with that. President trump is acting in accordance with his competence, with his law. Joining us now, john heilemann, coauthor of game change, joy reid, host of am joy weekendsed on msnbc. James boot, a former defense policy adviser for romney 2012. Joy, reid, this latest report tonight out of the New York Times quoting james comey telling associates, thats how its defined in the article, mr. Comey told associates that the president is outside the realm of normal, even crazy. Joy, thats james comey being quoted using the word crazy in relation to the president of the United States. Yeah, and the white hat version of the comey tale has always been that he was not somebody that was a partisan hack out to get Hillary Clinton, but he really sort of sees himself in this grandiose fashion as this dudley do right character and he was diligently and aggressively working on the russiagate case. You have to remember, the fbi is an incredibly compartmentalized organization. The criminal and International Division by design do not communicate with one another. Its not surprising and particularly people in the white house where some of the targets might be didnt know what he was doing. But all the sources were hearing even from the scuttlebutt if you talk to people with National Security background is that he had a real investigation going, there were these grand juries swirling around. He was working with u. S. Attorneys. He was getting close. And i think the evidence that he is getting close is that he was fired by donald trump. A lot of reporting going on now where Anonymous Sources talking about how things are working on both sides of this story. The Justice Department pushing back, saying thereas the last eting that comey had with rosenstein was may 1. There was no discussion of resources. Of course, there are other ways to request resources other than verbally facetoface in a meeting. John, as you see the statements coming out, comey saying the president is crazy, more reporting by the hour, we can expect more of this by the day and by the hour with all of the sources who have been loosened up by the firing of jim comby. Well, look. First id say on the first claim, it in fact, not only have i done this kind of reporting in the past, spending a lot of time lately for various projects im working on now. And ill say if james comey were asking for more funds from the Deputy Attorney general from rosenstein, the way in which he would do it would not be directly and not do it in a meeting. It would be done by deputies, probably done on paper. So the fact when they last had their facetoface meeting is utterly irrelevant of him requesting additional sources. We have reports that this investigation was ramping up. The wall street journal reporting that comey had gone from weekly briefings to daily briefings on the russia trump probe there is a million signs not a million, but many, many signs that this investigation was serious and it was ramping up. I said on television, that the main person that donald trump had to fear in washington now was james comey. And partly because of the thing that joy just talked aut is thatcombe co comeys reputation of a pillar of rectitude. He felt had been damaged by the notion, the accusations that the things he did last fall that ended up benefitting donald trump, hurting Hillary Clinton, that they were in some way motived by partisan preferences. And sipping on he has been on this question of trump and russia more and more like a dog on a bone. I think he was someone who posed a great threat to the administration, maybe more than any other Single Person in washington, d. C. Until yesterday. Max boot, id like to get your read of how things played out at the white house today, today of all day, the day after the president has fired the person in charge of the investigation of russias interference in our election, and then the Russian Foreign minister given the extreme vip treatment at the white house along with the ambassador. And while at the same time, or similar time of the day, Vice President pence is very quietly meeting with ukraines foreign minister, assuring ukraine of continued u. S. Support. But what the world saw was donald trump welcoming the russians into the oval office. Possibly even triumphantly from the perspective of this is the group that interfered with the election that then produced President Trump. Well, i think its fair to say, lawrence, it was a pretty surreal scene at the white house today with the grip and grin with Sergei Lavrov kind of giving him this ctory lap in the oval office, and kind of announcing tharussia is back and a big player. But this whole thing is beyond surreal. This is the first time in history weve had the fbi investigating the president of the United States and his aides for possible collusion with a hostile foreign power. And now its the first time that youve had a president who was fired an fbi director who was investigating him. I mean, this to me seems like pri prima fascia evidence of obstruction of justice. The wall street journal and the times the fact that President Trump fired comey, it hadding in to do that he was upset about the things that comey said last year about Hillary Clinton. Thats ridiculous. Clearly, he was upset by the fact that comey was investigating connections between the Trump Campaign and the kremlin. And trump seems to think there is some cause for concern here. Because every time this issue flares up, he freaks out. And this is his latest freakout. And in the process, its possible that ultimately he has done himself in here. Because he has finally presented a case that can be taken for impeachment, obstruction of justice. But unfortunately, thats only going to happen or there is only a possibility of it happening if the democrats take control of congress in 2018. Because the unfortunate part of this for me is how supine most republicans have been with a president who is tampering with Law Enforcement, who is tampering with kind of the bedrock of the american political system which is the rule of law. And some republicans express concern, but almost none are willintoack an independent council or a special committee to look into this matter. So theyre basically accepting that trump is going to get away with what he is doing. Which to me strikes me and i say this as somebody who is a lifelong republican, is outrageous and is something that needs to be exposed. Joy reid, all of the reporting we have has been consistent from the New York Times, politico, to the wall street journal, all of the backstage reporting about how this occurred, how this firing occurred, its all ascribed to the president s attitude to the way comey has been approaching the russia investigation. And all of the sourcing for that comes from inside Donald Trumps administration. Right. And the reporting says donald trump didnt consult a wide circle of people before he did this. He caught many of his own staff, his own team unawares. And in addition to the other problems we just heard laid out, donald trump has forced his team to tell two lies that are pretty easily provable if the democrats theyre actual t republicans are absolutely kneeling. The Lindsey Grahams and the john mccains of the world, they talk a good game. They dont do anything. But they told two lies that democrats could liz puncture by putting both james comey and mr. Rosenstein under oath. They have accused james comey of telling donald trump three times that he is not under investigation. Donald trump puthat in writing under his own sigture in tha letter firing james comey. The second, he has now had even the Vice President of the United States repeat this claim, they was mr. Rosenstein who initiated the firing of james comey. It was his idea that he brought the idea to the white house. And then the white house turned around and had him go ahead and execute it. If mr. Rosenstein has even half the selfregard that comey does, i find it hard to believe he is going to sit in front of a Senate Hearing and lie for donald trump and take credit or blame for this firing when every single piece of reporting as you just said, lawrence, says it was donald trump who initiated this firing of james comey. This obstruction of justice, quite frankly. Were going to have to get a break in here. But before we do, i want to identify the next firing in the trump administration. This is dana shell smith. She is the u. S. Ambassador to qatar. She tweeted today increasingly difficult to wake up overseas to news from home knowing i will spend today explaining our democracy and institutions. Were going to have to take a break here. Max boot, thank you very much for joining us tonight. John heilemann, were going to need you in a later segment. Please stay around. We have the entire hour now of breaking News Coverage coming up on this situation. Joining us next, congressman jim hines. Shea member of the house Intelligence Committee. He will join us with his reaction to the news of the subpoenas tonight. The subpoenas are the biggest News Development since the comey firing. Its over. Ther way to say this. Its over. Ive found a permanent escape from monotony. Together, we are perfectly balanced, our senses awake, our hearts racing as one. I know this is sudden, but they say if you love something. Set it free. See you around, giulia theres nothing more than my vacation. Me so when i need to book a hotel room, i want someone that makes it easy to find what i want. Booking. Com gets it. They offer free cancellation if my plans change. Visit booking. Com. Booking. Yeah. But with my back pain i couldnt sleep or get up in time. Then i found aleve pm. The only one to combine a sleep aid plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. And now. Im back aleve pm for a better am. One one of our major adversaries in the world decides to try to impact the choice of leader of the free world, the United States should stand up, take notice, and fight back. Lets not forget that this is all happening less than one week after a hacking attack on another democratic election in france. man vo it was may, when dad forgot how to brush his teeth. woman vo in march, my husband didnt recognize our grandson. woman 2 vo thats when moderate alzheimers made me a caregiver. avo if their alzheimers is getting worse, ask about onceaday namzaric. Namzaric is approved for moderate to severe alzheimers disease in patients who are taking donepezil. It may improve cognition and overall function, and may slow the worsening of symptoms for a while. Namzaric does not change the underlying disease progression. Dont take if allergic to memantine, donepezil, piperidine, or any of the ingredients in namzaric. Ll the docto about any conditions; including heart, lung, bladder, kidney or liver probms, seizures, stomach ulcers, or procedures with anesthesia. Serious side effects may occur, including muscle problems if given anesthesia; slow heartbeat, fainting, more stomach acid which may lead to ulcers and bleeding; nausea, vomiting, difficulty urinating, seizures, and worsening of lung problems. Most common side effects are headache, diarrhea, dizziness, loss of appetite, and bruising. woman 2 vo i dont know what tomorrow will bring but im doing what i can. avo ask about namzaric today. You said you want the Russian Investigation to continue at doj. Will the white house oppose the appointment of a special prosecutor to continue to look into the investigation . We dont think its necessary. Youve got a house committee, a Senate Committee and a department of justice all working on this. I dont think that there is the a necessary need at this point to add that youve got the Deputy Attorney general who i would say is about as independent as it comes due to the fact that he has such bipartisan support. He doesnt have bipartisan support anymore. Here is what the democratic vice chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee Said about Rod Rosenstein on this program last night. I voted for this gentleman based upon his reputation in maryland. But i am deeply disappointed. And if i could have that vote back, i would be voting in a different way. Today senator warrenoined the richard burr in announcing that the committee has issued the first subpoena, that it has issued since its joint investigation of the 9 11 attacks on the United States. Senator burr and senator warner said the subpoena requests documents relevant to the committees investigation. The Committee First requested these documents on april 28th. 2017 letter to Lieutenant General flynn, but he declined through counsel to cooperate with the committees request. Joining us now, connecticut Democratic Congressman jim hines. He is a member of the house Intelligence Committee. Congressman, what is your confidence level now in Rod Rosenstein as the Deputy Attorney general . You just heard senator warner say if he had a chance to vote on that confirmation again, he would vote against it. Yeah. I think the answer to that question, lawrence, really depends on what the Deputy Attorney general does next. My own belief, reading his memorandum, which was a pretty unusual memorandum for somebody high up in the Justice Department, citing news source and op eds and everything, my sense is this decision to fire comey came right out of the oval office, came quickly. And the Deputy Attorney general drawing on the fact that there was a lot of legal controversy over comeys behavior put that together quickly. But going forward, here is the question. Does he support and does he ultimately appoint an independent council . Though my republican colleagues arent there yet, whatever you think of the president s decision, the signal that was sent inside the fbi about what ppens when youre serious about an investigation, what it could mean f your career and theppearance of the investigated being fired by the investigator, if the Deputy Attorney general advocates for and appoints an independent council, thats how well know if he is acting independently or not. Councilman, we know through reporting and sources that the Deputy Attorney general was called up to the white house to meet with the president and the attorney general on monday. This memo was then written the next day. And so the notion that the Deputy Attorney general had been working on this on his own is absolutely untrue. And now proven to be untrue. And so what more do you need to be suspect of the motivation in writing these memos . You know, sitting as i do on the house Intelligence Committee, weve seen this sort of chaos after another uncomfortable moment. So sally yates appears in open hearing and basically establishes that Michael Flynn was the National Security adviser of the United States of america while it was known inside the white house that he was potentially compromised by the russians. 18 days sitting in very, very sensitive meetings. And my own theory is that the president s head explode, just as it did weeks ago, almost months ago now when weed that open hearing on the house side when comey announced the investigation in the first place. Remember what happened right after that open hearing . All of the sudden all the other open hearings were canceled. Chairman nunes made his midnight run to the white house. The white house orchestrated this unbelievable two week or threeweek period which almost derailed the house investigation. Now amidst all the chaos and the questions and the weirdness of this moment, i think this was the white house trying to derail the fbi investigation, which i will tell you as a congressional investigator is something that to some extent we were rye rest lyinie ing ying on for no other dont have two, three, four investigators the way the fbi does. There is much more pressure on your investigation. Now a lot of us have been saying that the fbi was of course the strongest, most empowered investigation. Now we have reason to doubt that. But the Senate Intelligence committee has invited comey to come and testify next week in a closed hearing. Would you hope that the house Intelligence Committee also invited him to come back and tell more of what he knows . You know, id love to see. Here we have these competing hearings with sally yates. Id love to see this effort come together so we can drag these people in front of congress once. But absolutely. Im interested in hearing from comey. Now he can, for example, answer a question which is certainly burning on my mind which is my god, did you really tell the president of the United States three times that he was not subject to an investigation . That in and of itself would be wildly unusual for an fbi director to do. Why an fbi director would talk to an individual who is at least campaign is under investigation we know that to be true. Boy, the questions that come out of that alone. And then by the way, lets follow that up. As you pointed out earlier with the Deputy Attorney general. Just ask the man exactly what happened leading up to the firing of the fbi director. This moment in u. S. History that is unprecedented where somebody under investigation fired the lead investigator. What exactly happened . Those are hearing i would certainly hope to be part of. We hope you get to ask those questions. Congressman jim himes, thank you for joining us tonight. Thank you, lawrence. Coming up, now there is Something Else that the republicans are getting yelled at about in town halls. We need an independent prosecutor. We need a bipartisan select committee. When are you going to decide to be an american and not a politician . Behind schedule we a. Yeah. Are those the pyrotechnics that are gonna startle me from a distance . Yep. And my impractical wardrobe changes, those all set . Not even close. Oh, this is probably going to shine in your eyes at the worst possible time. Perfect. Were looking at a real train wreck here, am i right . Wouldnt it be great if everyone said what they meant . The citi® double cash card does. It lets you earn double cash back with 1 when you buy, and 1 as you pay. The citi double cash card. Double means double. So we know how to cover almost alanything. Ything, even a coupe soup. [woman] so beautiful. [man] beautiful just like you. [woman] oh, why thank you. [burke] and we covered it, november sixth, twothousandnine. Talk to farmers. We know a thing or two because weve seen a thing or two. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum oh, there is he has become more famous than me. Director comey. [ applause ] nothing worse than becoming more famous than donald trump in trump world. According to several reports today, donald trump had been angry at james comey over the fbis russia investigation for weeks before his firing. Politico reports that President Trump would sometimes scream at Television Clips about the probe. One adviser said trump had grown angry with the russia investigation, particularly comey admitting in front of the senate that the fbi was investigating his campaign and that the fbi director wouldnt support his claims that president barack obama had tapped his phones in trump tower. According to wall street journal, President Trump viewed mr. Comey as eager to step in front of tv cameras and questioned whether his expanding media profile because warping his view of the russia investigation. Back with us, joy reid and john heilemann. And joy reid, the president was worried that james comey was on tv too much and it was going to his head. Thats the wrong guy to worry about that right . Jim coys ego might be pretty close to Donald Trumps in size and scope. I have to say, have i this feeling, and i think there was one of the stories, i cant remember which one that the moment that really set donald trump on fire was when comey stead he was mildly nausea by the idea, made mildly nausea of the idea that maybe he helped elect donald trump that is the cardinal sin for donald trump who ask super sensitive about his election. And the idea that comey wouldnt have been proud about helping elect him, he couldnt take it anymore. And comey meant that as a nonpartisan response. I think he would have given the same response if the other was Hillary Clinton. The idea that he could have affected an election. I want to go to something that reuters is reporting that is very important, saying attorney general jeff session and Deputy Attorney general Rod Rosenstein had wanted a headsup from comey about what he would say at a may 3rd hearing about his handling of the investigation about Hillary Clintons email serve and so forth. And john, that looks like the Deputy Attorney general reaching in to james comeys territory in a very uncomfortable way for comby. Yes. In a way that has wide by been considered by tradition and custom to be inappropriate also. Comey is, as weve been discussing is a man who cares a lot about his image. He also cares fiercely about the fbi. The Justice Department the home of the fbi. Its an interesting relationship. The attorney general is the fbi directors boss. At the same time, over time, it is the case that the fbi basically pursues its investigations in an independent way. And certainly comey would have thought that trying to give a headsup of that kind to this attorney general and to this Deputy Attorney general would have been inappropriate because it would have been driven mostly by politics and not by Law Enforcement concerns. You know, look, i think one of the most interesting things is about to happen because of the fact that comey cares so much about the assistansubstance of investigation, also about his image. He is a master of working the press. Hes got a lot of contacts in the media. So do his allies in the fbi. And they anticipate very soon were going to finally start hearing what that investigation was actually getting at. We now know a coverup is in play. We dont know what the coverup is of. But i think we might start to get some clues pretty soon. And joy, the big suspense is will james comey accept that invitation to testify at the Senate Intelligence committee next week. Now it will be a closed hearing. So we wont get much out of it. But if he says yes to that, thats going to be the most interesting closed hearing of the year. And i would anticipate there will be weeks out of that. At this point, people are scrambling for their own personal positions around this issue, around russiagate. Donald trump is scrambling, his staff. There is even reports that bannon was on the other side of this idea of firing james comey because its such a distraction. This is chaos, lawrence. This is a chaos presidency. But it definitely feels like were coming to the point where we going to find out substance. Thats why donald trump is panicking. Is panicking because clearly he understands that this is series and information is coming out and its going to lead right back to his door. John heilemann, this was handled so badly by the white house. Patiently many people in the white house assuming it would be well received. And some reports indicate that steve bannon was one of the cooler heads saying we should slow down. This isnt good typing for this. When donald trump looks at the way this whole 24 hours going into 48 hours, the rest of the week has gone, who are going to be the winners and losers inside the Trump White House over this . Well, lets see. I mean, there is one question about Sarah Huckabee sanders who is out there now for sean spicer, how will she handle herself over the course of the week. She seems to be getting i know its the case that spicer is doing Naval Reserve work this week. But it seems like she might be getting a trial run behind the podium. If she does a good job in trumps view, maybe shell end up staying there. The other idea is why did they miss what you alluded to, lawrence, which is the obvious fact that the reality is there were Many Democrats who are very angry at james comey last fall and continue to be. Many democrats who thought that comey behaved both in july when he first talked about not indicting Hillary Clinton and then again in october when he wrote the letter and reopened the case, that they thought he behaved wildly inappropriately. But the fact that they didnt understand did not mea tha democrats would not applaud him being fired given the fact that he had announced he was investigating trumps ties to russia, the fact they didnt understand that is just a horrible act of political malpractice and a lack of understanding of capitol hill and the opposition party. So i dont think anyone in Donald Trumps white house who is advising him on that will look like a real goat at the end of this week. And by the way, lawrence t, they have given them a message for 2018. You heard max boot say it before. The only way donald trump gets held accountable with a supine Democratic Congress is if the democrats take over one or both houses. Thats all the democrats need to put together a campaign for 2018, telling the American People only you can stop this president. Republicans wont do it. Its a tailormade campaign, probably even democrats could do it. Joy reid gets the last word for this segment. Joy reid, john heilemann, thank you both for join us tonight. We really appreciate it. Thanks, lawrence. Coming up, someone who has been there before. Someone who worked in a white house that collapsed in scandal. President nixons white House Counsel will join us. So beautiful. What shall we call you . Tom name it tom studies show that toms have the highest average earning potential over their professional lifetime. See . Uh, its a girl. Congratulations two of my girls are toms. I work for ally, finances are my thing. You know, im gonna go give birth real quick and then well talk, ok . Nice baby. Lets go. Here comes tom 5 nothing, stops us from doing right by our customers. Ally. Do it right. Whoo look out. Ally. Do it right. 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[ inaudible ] so its fair to say that you still dont have a rationale for why . No. A lot of us are still puzzled as to the timing. Joining us now, elise jordan, former National Security official for president george w. Bush and a speech writer for secretary of state cdoleez rice. She is also an msnbc political analyst. Elise, all eyes on republican theyre the party in power. Their reaction to this is whats important. Its whats going to determine what happens next certainly within the congress. We hear kind of some soft dissent from the white house on this. John mccain saying there should be a special congressional committee. But where is it going . We see some action in the town halls about it now. What are you anticipating . Im anticipating that for now, republicans are just trying to grasp what exactly is going on and whats going to be the political damage of really hitching their wagon with donald trump. I think its really telling that senator mccain called for the special committee. And also representative of justin amatch has called for an independent investigation and called the letter that President Trump gave to comey upon his firing just bizarre, because thats what it was. It was bizarre. You see these two republican congressmen whose Foreign Policy views are opposed. John mccain and justin amash who is a libertarian and very principled in those views. And you have both of them coming together and saying hey, something is amiss here. We really have to put principle over party. And i think there perhaps the first wave. I would like to say im optimistic that more republicans are going to follow their example. But i really i think that this is going to be probably divided pretty strictly down partisan lines. At least in the near future. But as more information drips out and the trickle starts and the leaks have already started, you look at 30 sources in that Washington Post story tonight. There are a lot of people who know a lot of whats been going on with this scandal. And i just dont see it stopping any time soon. And we do have some republicans asking for more information. Ben sasse, who is the chairman of a judiciary subcommittee asking the Justice Department, wants the Deputy Attorney general to give more clarity about why james comey was fired. Jam Jason Chaffetz sending a letter to the Inspector General, wanting the Inspector General to review why comey was fired. So they are pushing for some inquiries at the Justice Department level. I think thats what republicans need to be doing. You know, all americans deserve more information about what exactly is happening. And, you know, as we see this investigation ratchet up with respect to former National Security adviser general mike flynn, thats another area that americans are watching and they want accountability. They deserve accountability. And to know what is happening when it comes to President Trumps campaign and potential collusion with russia. Elise jordan, thank you very much for joining us tonight. We really appreciate it. Thank you. Up next, our Long National nightmare. Have. It could be better. Its time to shake things up. With the capital one venture card, you get double miles on everything you buy, not just airline purchases. Seriously, think of all the things you buy. Great. Is this why you asked me to coffee . Well yeah. But also to catchup. Whats in your wallet . P3 planters nuts, jerky and whaseeds. At . I like a variety in my protein. Totally, thats why i have this uh trail mix. Wow minty. P3 snacks. The more interesting way to get your protein. Even if youre trying your best. 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Do we have a government of laws or a government of men . Men like donald trump. Steve bannon, jeff sessions, rod rosen steen, who is the newest member of the trump club of suspects, men who we have a right to suspect might consider loyalty to donald trump more important than loyalty to the constitution. A month after president ford took that oath of office, he pardoned richard nixon. Richard nixon accepted the pardon knowing acceptance is the equivalence of a admission of guilt. President nixon said that the way i tried to deal with water gai gate was the wrong way is a burden i shall bare every day of the life that is left of me. John dean was in the thick of that drama when he was president nixons white House Counsel. He was there as the white house descended into darkness and criminal conspiracy. He knows what a white house in collapse feels like and john dean delivered the single most memorable line of testimony. I began by telling the president that there was a cancer growing on the presidency and if the cancer was not removed the president himself would be killed by it. John dean will join us next. Because of rogue, the best selling suv in america. Titan, with americas best truck warranty. And the most advanced safety features on altima and other best selling models. Thats why were americas fastestgrowing autorand. Get 0 financing for up to 72 months on 11 models. Its your glass of willpower that helps keep cravings. Far, far away. Feel less hungry with the natural fiber in clinically. Proven meta appetite control. From metamucil. Yet up 90 fall short in getting key nutrients from food alone. Lets do more. Add one a day 50 a complete multivitamin with 100 daily value of more than 15 key nutrients. One a day 50 . There is a clear and present danger of a cover up. This firing has very much the look and feel of an effect to stop or sometimy an investigation or interfere with it. They fired an fbi director looking at guess what . The white house and if it that loop is proven, thats 96 ownian. Joining us now former white House Counsel for president richard nixon. You hear this word, nixonian and i wonder whats john dean thinking . Does it feel like 1974 . It echoes of 1973, 74, 72, the whole period. Its not identical but there are too many similarities to become comfortable. Tell us what its like inside a white house as these stories are moving along. The white house is being protective and has all the same shape as the stories emerge where at first there were answers. Hes the white house answer heres T Administration answers. And then the answers gets thinner and thinner. And whats happening inside . The staff is the last to know and theyre realally somewhat at a loss. There are key players ininvolved. What do you mean theyre the last to know . Theres a grapevine in the office that operates. But the white house doesnt get new briefings what the president s going to do. They were the last to know. And so theres a lot of angest on that staff right now. And a few players who are close and aware and counseling and somehow involved in the dialogue with the president they know. But thats a small group. The recent reports of the president increasingly isolated. These reports sound like the nixon reports of much later in the process. Meaning much closer to the end. Were that very beginning of the Trump Presidency hearing reports that echo the end of the nixon presidency. Its bazar, no question. You got to recall that water gate ran 900 days from the it time of the arrest at watergate to the last trial. This is the summer of the 1972 president ial campaign. Theres an arrest of a burglary that appears to be a politically motivated burglary against democrats. Fm that moment to the end of theast trial which is 1975, thats nie900 days and nixon les well before then. Its a long scandal. Today were just at the very beginning and the noises of course things are more accelerated today. News cycles are faster. Theres more suspicion today because the Nixon Administration at least had the advantage of nothing like this had ever happened before and people were much slower to use words like impeach. Before waterigate they were given the benefit of the doubt and hes got to get busy. Hes making himself look worse rather than better. Theres always how do you advise the guilty client if it the guilty client is the president . You have this problem. You knew at a certain point as white House Counsel what the president was going to be exposed as being culpable for. Where the worst tape was going to be. We didnt know no one knew the taping system was running and i years later went through all those tapes to hear when he really did know and he knows within the first week of course. But hes playing it very differently with the staff. He pretends to me i dont start until eight months in do i start dealing one on one with him. And youre trying to get him out of this mess, youre trying to make him realize how big the problem is. You were saying things to him which were similar to what you were about to say about President Trump that he has to come clean and clean this up. What if nixon knew he couldnt clean this up . Thats the real sore here because if trump could make this go away, if this was fake news, he would do so and he could do so in 48 hours but he cant obviously. So thats why it looks like a cover up. It is a cover up. Thats whats going on. What would you advise people like don mcgan, old white House Counsel. Hes hired 26 lawyers. Hes got a very sophisticated shop running right now. Hes got people from some of the best law firms in the country. They didnt come over to really get into a mess. It will be interested to see what the white House Counsel does. What was cleared up. With water gate is he doesnt represent the president himself as a person. They represent the office. So they have a real professional responsibility to make sure the office of the president is protected. Theyre in a very tough role right now. If youre working in the white house if theres kbhn you want to listen to is john dean. Thank you very much. Really appreciate it. The 11th hour with Brian Williams starts right now. Tonight why was james koenly fired and why now and how long was this in a works . New reporting that west wing at this hour. Plus mike flynn subpoenaed after refusing to hand over documents related to russia. Speaking of which the two sergeys, the russians who visited the oval office photographed only by russian media, that was before nixons secretary of state stopped by. And thats the optics were dealing with as