Transcripts For MSNBCW The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell 20160804

Of his campaign. Would you trust mr. Trump with the Nations Nuclear codes . Im here to talk about zika. Look, nuclear should be off the table. But would there be a time when it could be z possibly. The trouble is when you say that what concerns you most about donald trump . How erratic he is. I have one of the great temperaments. Inconsistency. Unpredictability. Those are dangerous things. I will not be a happy trigger like some people might be. I will be the last to use Nuclear Weapons. Do we want his finger anywhere near the button . This is the last word on campaign 2016. Its not a button. President trumps finger would not be near a nuclear button. Its a briefcase. Its always within steps of the president. Its the only briefcase in the world with a nickname. The football. The football is always carried by a military aide. Five of them share this 24hour duty. One from each branch of the u. S. Armed forces. The briefcase is heavy. 45 pounds. Inside is a very simple manual for starting the most complex process that any one human being could ever do conduct nuclear war. The decision to do that belongs to the one person who can open that briefcase. The president of the United States. The briefcase, the football, is not enough to start a Nuclear Attack. The president also needs the biscuit. Thats a nickname too. The biscuit is a card with verification codes for launching Nuclear Weapons. When Ronald Reagan was shot and the medical staff at George Washington University Hospital cut off his clothes, the biscuit fell out of one of his pockets. It was immediately grabbed by the fbi. The president is always supposed to have the biscuit. Its always in his pocket. In may when president obama visited hiroshima, one of the two places on earth to be hit with a nuclear weapon, both of them delivered by the United States, the president had in one of his pockets the biscuit. The codes for launching the worlds Third Nuclear attack. On our next Inauguration Day the football will follow president obama from the white house to the capitol and the football will then follow the new president back to the white house. And the new president will then have the biscuit. If that new president is named trump, america and no doubt the world will worry about nuclear war in a way it has never worried before. The new worry will not be russia or Chinas Nuclear capability. People already worry about that. The new worry would be President Trumps nuclear capability. It would be the first time the United States of america wouldnt trust its own president with the biscuit and the football. A new fox news poll tonight shows that the vast majority of americans do not trust donald trump to make decisions about using Nuclear Weapons. There is only one use of Nuclear Weapons that has been seriously contemplated and rehearsed by the american military, and that is the defensive use of Nuclear Weapons in the event of a Nuclear Attack from the soviet union, now russia, or china. In that scenario of defensive use of Nuclear Weapons against a Nuclear Attack that has been launched against us, the president will have a maximum decisionmaking time, maximum, of six minutes. Those six minutes could be cut in half or less if the attack actually comes from a Russian Submarine in the Atlantic West of bermuda, where Russian Submarines frequently patrol. Think about donald trump in those six minutes or in those three minutes. In 1979 National Security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski received the proverbial 3 00 a. M. Call in the middle of the night telling him the United States appeared to be under Nuclear Attack from the soviet union. Thats what the Early Morning monitors in a bunker in colorado showed. Before he could tell the president , brzezinski got a second call confirming now an allout attack from the soviet union. And just as brzezinski was about to wake president carter so that the president would have those full six minutes to decide what to do, brzezinski got a third call telling him it was a false alarm. Imagine. Imagine President Trumps National Security adviser in those minutes, in the middle of the night. The National Security adviser is not confirmed by the senate. It can be anyone donald trump chooses. Imagine team trump in the middle of the night facing what could turn out to be a false alarm or could turn out to be nuclear war. For the first time in history, americans including the americans serving in the missile launching sites who would have to insert their launch keys and turn them, sending millions of people to their deaths, would have to worry about the possibility of a president of the United States ordering a Nuclear Attack without any Nuclear Provocation at all. Unlike president s, soldiers in those missile silos are tested for their sanity. And in that military test sanity is defined as the ability to unflinchingly follow the coded order to launch Nuclear Weapons without hesitation and without question. What would happen to their sanity under President Trump . How many of them in those silos would be among the vast majority of americans who would not trust donald trump to make decisions about using Nuclear Weapons . The more you think about whats separating us and what has separated us from nuclear war, the more you dont want to think about it. 24 hours a day the only thing separating us from nuclear war, the football, the biscuit, and ultimately the president s brain. After the nixon presidency reports emerged indicating we had survived the most dangerous president of the nuclear age. In the last year of the nuclear presidency as congress was moving closer and closer to impeachment the president was frequently drunk late at night, sometimes crying, with secretary of state henry kissinger. At a small dinner party he reportedly said, i could leave this room and in 25 minutes, 70 Million People would be dead. Nixons secretary of defense in those days, james schlesinger, told all military commanders to immediately alert him if they received any strange communication or orders from the president. We were lucky. The world was lucky. We survived a drunken mournful selfpitying president on the verge of impeachment wandering the white house late at night with the football always just steps away and the biscuit in his pocket. It might take all the luck we have left as a country to survive a trump presidency. Several months ago a Foreign Policy expert on an International Level went to advise donald trump, and three times he asked about the use of Nuclear Weapons. Three times he asked at one point, if we have them, why cant we use them . Well, at least donald trump doesnt drink. Joining us now, louis fisher, scholar in resident at the constitution project and the former library of Congress Senior specialist in separation of powers. Also with us, dan zack, reporter for the Washington Post and the author of almighty, a new book about Nuclear Weapons. And here in new yorks studio jonathan alter, msnbc political analyst and a columnist for the daily beast. Dan zack, i want to go to those minutes that have been described in many accounts that a president has and that some of our president s have had to decide in the face of what turned out to be false alarms. And what it is how many people in the past in these situations, especially in the false alarms, how many people do we know the president has had an opportunity to consult with or deal with in the minutes that they have to make these decisions. Well, lawrence, its very few. And thats the concern here. Its the amount of time that a commander in chief has to make a decision if theres an incoming attack. Even someone who is does have their wits about them, who is very patient and very considered in their thinking, even someone like that in the minutes that are allowed to confer about the legitimacy of an attack and the options for a counterattack, even someone whos very well qualified is going to be under an enormous amount of stress. So the number of people who are involved and the time involved are both very, very minimal. And jonathan alter, theyre given in that little in the football there is a coded menu of choices. You can attack military inside installations only. You can attack military installations and governing installations, which, say, in moscows case would include moscow and government buildings. And theres at least three Different Levels of this. And its the kind of thing that when you stop and imagine donald trump in these scenarios it is truly just unimaginable. Its terrifying. I think the lack of discipline. Out of the blue. You have deteriorating relationships that usually would precede any nuclear exchange. Other nations develop nuclear programs. This would tremendously multiply the odds of a nuclear exchange, not necessarily involving the United States but somewhere in the world. So this danger goes beyond mental instability or deep insecurity on trumps part to certain policies in breaking down our alliances that will greatly increase the odds of nuclear war. Mr. Fisher, this is obviously something that the constitution could not have contemplated for obviously technological reasons. Where the constitution vests the power to declare war in the congress. It also gives congress the power to make rules about military and how the military is used. How did we get to the place legally where there is a general consensus that one person, one person has the power to make this kind of war without any consultation with anyone . Well, from 1789 to 1950 any president who wanted to go to war came to congress either for a full declaration or statutory authority. 1950 was the first time a president , truman, went to war on his own, bypassed congress. Under law he had to come to congress under the u. N. Participation act and get authority from congress. But he violated that statute. And that procedure of bypassing congress and going to the u. N. Or bypassing congress and going to nato allies was later used by clinton several times and again by obama in libya in 2011. So to me weve had president s from 1950 on acting illegally, going to war. Thats been the process. Completely against what the framers expected and completely against what the statute says. But in the contemplation of nuclear war, its always been in a defensive mode. And is the consensus, the legal consensus in washington that if the United States is perceived to be under a Nuclear Attack the president has the Legal Authority to respond immediately with Nuclear Weapons without consultation . Thats the understanding. And certainly that was the understanding under kennedy if the soviet union had launched an attack against the United States, with the understanding that kennedy could respond by himself. The danger to me is that president s have regularly made poor judgments on the basis of false information. As we all know, george w. Bush claimed six reasons to go to war against iraq. That Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. All six claims were false. So thats the danger, not just that a president is trigger happy and wanting to go to war but hes surrounded by people who give false information. Dan zak, if donald trump is elected president , how quickly could you expect the Congress Might act to pass a new claving law that says Nuclear Weapons can only be used in defense of a Nuclear Attack . Well, i cant begin to predict how congress would react but i think even contemplating that scenario i think illustrates just how much power weve invested in one person. I mean, thats really kind of what were deciding to do with this election, what we do with every president ial election, which is there is an ultimate authority here that we are assigning to one person. And when that person makes a decision to authorize a Nuclear Strike congress does not vote, it doesnt get run by the supreme court, the citizens dont vote on it. Its a decision made by one man or one woman. I cant begin to think how congress would react to a President Trump. But i think its worth thinking about as a society. Is it worth assigning this great responsibility and power to one person who has minutes to decide what to do . I just want to report that Paul Manafort denied the account that Joe Scarborough gave on his show this morning about someone discussing Foreign Policy with donald trump and donald trump asking about the use of nuclear war. But i want to show another very important clip from morning joe this morning involving general michael hayden, former director of the nsa, former director of the cia. Lets watch this. Who amongst your peers that you respect greatly, whether they think like you or not think like you, do you know thats advising mr. Trump . No one. Jonathan, this is a terrible situation bakes understand why people are boycotting trump. But isnt there also a responsibility for responsible people to try to get to him and teach him how to think about this if thats possible . Well, he met with henry kissinger. Hes met with some other people. But the more we learn about the people around him like general michael flynn, who almost ran on the ticket, and he is supposedly a major adviser, turns out hes on the payroll of russian propaganda Television Program thats basically run by the russian government. Hes totally compromised. The people around him do not inspire confidence. Jonathan alter, louis fisher, dan zak thank you all for joining us. Really appreciate it. Coming up, Trump Campaign chaos. More chaos, that is. Trump allies now openly planning an intervention on the most undisciplined and mentally unstable candidate in history. While the Campaign Staff is reportedly suicidal. Not literally, of course. Just figuratively. And some republicans plot to take the nomination away from donald trump. Is there a legal way to do that . Hint. Its easy to love your laxative when that lax loves your body back. Only miralax hydrates, eases and softens to unblock naturally, so you have peace of mind from start to finish. Love your laxative. Miralax. Put under a microscope, we can see all the bacteria that still exists. Polidents unique micro clean formula works in just 3 minutes, killing 99. 99 of odor causing bacteria. For a cleaner, fresher, brighter denture every day. Yes. We have breaking news from london tonight. The London Metropolitan police force are investigating a mass stabbing tonight in central london. Police were called after to the scene of a man with a knife attacking people in russell square. Nbc news has confirmed that one woman is dead and as many as five other people were injured in the attack. Police have arrested one man. And the police say that terrorism is a possibility but they arent yet certain of a motive. Up next, republicans hoping the trump kids can do an intervention. On their dad. Tonight, with a new fox news poll showing Hillary Clinton with a substantial lead over donald trump, it is officially panic time in trump world. I think some of what trump has done is just very selfdestructive. I dont know if its a fixable problem but i think its a very big moment for trump. He has got to find a way to slow down, really learn some new lessons. This is a little bit like the apprentice. Except hes the apprentice. Hes not the boss. And thats a trump supporter there talking. Reports indicate that republicans think donald trump needs an intervention to save his campaign. Sources tell nbc news that Reince Priebus, rudy giuliani, and Newt Gingrich hope to join forces with the trump children for that intervention. Heres what Paul Manafort said publicly about the intervention today. The campaign is focused. And the campaign is moving forward in a positive way. The only need we have for an intervention is maybe with some media types who keep saying things that arent true. With donald trump refusing to endorse Speaker Paul Ryan in ryans Reelection Campaign and trump Vice President ial pick mike pence going out of his way to endorse paul ryan enthusiastically, a display of disunity we have never seen in a president ial ticket before, donald trump addressed the unprecedented disagreement with his Vice President ial candidate this way. I just want to tell you, the campaign is doing really well. Its never been so well united. And we started on june 16th. I would say right now its the best in terms of being united that its been since we began. Republican National Committee chairman Reince Priebus is said to be apoplectic that donald trump will not endorse paul ryan. Politico reports that priebus abandoned his softer demeanor when he called the candidate tuesday afternoon. He lit into him pretty good, said a source with knowledge of the conversation who is obviously a reince guy. It was basically him saying do you realize how badly youre fing this up . Joining us now, rick wilson, republican strategist who is a contributor to the website heat street. Rory cooper, a Senior Adviser for the never trump super pac. Rick wilson, i dont know Reince Priebus. I just know the guy who plays Reince Priebus on tv. I cannot imagine him lighting into donald trump on the phone or anywhere else. Look, Reince Priebus gave up his manhood to donald trump the day he scurried up to trump tower to have trump sign that pledge, and i dont think hes ever recaptured it. There is no way that donald trump respects Reince Priebus. He doesnt respect anyone, much less anyone hes vanquished, and he looks at Reince Priebus as someone he has acquired or vanquished. Priebus might be an interesting pet but hes not somebody that trump respects or listens to. Rory cooper, we have reports of Paul Manafort having just given up, that its hopeless to try to manage this thing, and that hes phoning it in. But at least hes still willing to deny that on tv. Well, i mean, i think its interesting that only in trump world is Paul Manafort seen as a voice of reason. If you look at where we are right now, were only 14 days out from the convention. The idea that we require an intervention for donald trump, i frankly dont have a lot of sympathy for the Republican Leaders who are looking at that because two weeks ago there were a number of delegates who were looking to still try to make a change in cleveland at the convention within the process and the rules of the committee and they were run down by the committee. And now two weeks later were trying to figure out what to do with the candidate that weve got. You know, if you look at the poll today, 7 out of 10 voters were offended by how donald trump treated the khan family. And probably the only 30 are either lying to themselves or lying to the pollster. Hes in bad shape. But its nothing new. Its what everybody in the Never Trump Movement has frankly been talking about for six months. The fact that its being treated like a revelation today is a little surprising. Lets take a look at that fox news poll that came out tonight with Hillary Clinton up nine points. This is a threeway poll showing Hillary Clinton at 44 , donald trump at 35 , and gary johnson, libertarian, at 12 . What strikes me about that poll, Hillary Clinton at 44 in a threeway race, is that bill clinton in 1992 won the presidency in a threeway race that included ross perot with exactly basically the same number Hillary Clinton has tonight. He won it with 43 . So rick wilson, that poll were looking at tonight, is an elect ral College Winning poll for Hillary Clinton. And lawrence, more importantly, look at the polls that have popped out in states since the Democratic Convention ended. You look at the shifts in the Electoral College numbers. And right now shes putting states like georgia and utah into play and donald trump is living in a fantasy bubble thinking hes going to win pennsylvania, california, new york, new jersey. This is a guy who is completely disconnected from reality. And these polls, theyre tonight screaming these are all fake polls and theyre wrong, its a conspiracy, its all rigged against donald. This is not a sign of somebody whos looking at this in a cleareyed way. This is a sign of somebody who is absolutely crazed. We have new video today of donald trump demonstrating his symptoms of personality disorder. This is when someone in the crowd, a woman, yells out to him, thank youfor your sacrifice. You might not be able to heart thank you for your sacrifice part. But here you will see Donald Trumps inability to connect in any way with modesty. Lets just play this. It kind of speaks for itself. Now thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thank you for your sacrifice. Thank you. Who said that . Who said that statement . Somebody in there. Very nice. Thank you very much. Thats very nice. Well, it is a sacrifice. Look, were all making sacrifices. We want our country to be great again. Rory cooper, people who have spent a lot of time trying to explain to him the meaning of the word sacrifice since friday when he began attacking the khan family, hes a very slow learner, it seems. Well, that presumes that he wants to learn. And thats really been the problem that weve had for the last year, which is that theres this idea that donald trump will somehow be coached or taught into acting like a nominee, acting like a president , acting like someone that should be taken seriously in the political world. When in fact he really doesnt have any interest in learning the policy nuances that it takes to governor what the positions are that the conservative movement have taken, which is why he had a hard time with the conservative movement, because when he tried to speak to them he was unable to speak their language on issues like life or guns or taxes or any number of National Security issues. And one points to the polls that rick was pointing out. You look at where he is with hispanics in florida, down where rick is. Hes doing horribly compared to where our last three candidates have done. And if you look at where he is with married woman with a college degree, a demographic that republicans have taken since harry truman, hes underwater with them. We can talk about polls between now and november, but the numbers are never going to add up for him, which is why one of the reasons weve always been concerned about him as a nominee, which is because he guarantees a Hillary Clinton presidency. Rick wilson and rory cooper, thank you both for joining us tonight. Thanks. Thanks, lawrence. Thanks, lawrence. Coming up, what if the Republican Party decides to actually try to dump trump . As some people are reporting they are studying. Dump him and replace him on the ballot. Is there a legal way to do it . Can they thread that needle . Well go inside the war room for the answer to that one. Look at you. Youre at the top of your game. At work , youre unstoppable. Nothing can throw you off track. Oh hey, shes cute. Nice going man. Things are going great for you. Youve earned a night out. Good drinks, good friends. Yeah, we can go ahead and call this a good night. Wait, is that your car . Uh oh. Not smart. Yeah, i saw that coming. Say goodbye to her. Ouch that will hurt your bank account. Youre looking at around ten grand in fines, legal fees, and increased insurance rates. I hope you like eating frozen dinners. Alone. Lets try this again. Smart move. Because buzzed driving is drunk driving. Get between you and lifes dobeautiful moments. Llergens flonase gives you more complete allergy relief. Most allergy pills only control one inflammatory substance. Flonase controls 6. And six is greater than one. Flonase changes everything. With 96 days left before the election, there are some reports indicating that the Republican Partys Campaign War Room is actually considering ways to drop donald trump as their nominee. At the same time we have reports that the Trump Campaign war room is in chaos. One report last night indicating that the Trump Campaign staff is suicidal. Joining us now, Jay Michaelson, columnist for the daily beast who today wrote the rnc can legally dump donald trump but it has to act fast. Jay, take us through the steps. How do they get rid of this poison in their system . Theyve got to get super legalistic super quickly. Obviously if they had a withdrawal so, if trump were to resign, which is not in his nature probably, that wouldnt be a problem. The ballot rules and the rules in the Electoral College would allow the party basically to decide. But if he doesnt, if he doesnt consent, there might be enough of a loophole in rule 9 of the republican rules which says i happen to have it right here. I thought you know what ill do . Ill read it so no one thinks were making this up. It says the republican National Committee is hereby authorized and empowered to fill any and all vacancies which may occur by reason of death, declination, or otherwise of the republican candidate for president. So thats the magic word. That word otherwise. What does that mean . Its not like a government statute where there are a lot of regulations saying what that means. Its up in the air. Its what lawyers i was trained as a lawyer. Its what we call a weasel word, which kind of allows you to get in the back door. It would be really unusual. It would be obviously unprecedented. And it would be fought. Donald trump would probably sue immediately and he might have a good case. But its not impossible to say especially when we hear the language about unfit or something about his temperament or Mental Illness or something like, that you can see the building of a case if the rnc, the committee wanted to make it. Speaking of Mental Illness, there is one historical precedent for this on the other side. 1972. On the democratic ticket. Tom eagleton, it was revealed after he got the Vice President ial nomination that he had undergone some electroshock therapy from a psychiatrist, and people thought this isnt going to work. But he left the ticket voluntarily, was replaced by sergeant schreiber, and thats another party. But theres nothing on the republican side no, and the key point is he left. Its kind of difficult to negotiate with somebody whose negotiation strategy just blow up the room. So assuming somehow they actually made this move, the next thing youre up against is getting names changed on ballots in each of the individual states. And the deadline to do that is different in every state. Its all over the map. Some deadlines have passed, for example, in delaware, and some deadlines wont pass until the end of september. So you could have a situation where Donald Trumps name is on the ballot in some states and lets just say paul ryans name is on the ballot in others. Even in that case, though, in most states even if Donald Trumps name is on the ballot, most states allow the party to really designate who the electors are at the Electoral College, and so it would still be again, lets say paul ryan. So the ballot could have Jay Michaelson on it. I hope so. But then when the Electoral College meets, those electors could vote for the suggested candidate for paul ryan. And lets say actually so even that is a state by state rule. So there are some states, there are about a dozen states that do require the electors to swear that theyre going to vote for the candidate. All right. So theres a less than 10 chance of this happening, would be my estimate. But this is called doing our job. Theres usually a zero percent chance of this happening. And when theres a 10 chance we have to examine the options. Jay michaelson has done it for us tads. Thank you so much. We appreciate it. Coming up remember Donald Trumps tax returns, the ones weve never seen because he says hes being audited by the irs . When is the political media going to understand that there is absolutely no proof that he is actually being audited . Tax expert david k. Johnston, the author of the making of donald trump, will join us. Narrator the best place to find adventure. Kubo come on, this way. Narrator . Is in the forest. Kubo wow. Narrator so grab your loved ones monkey dont even. Narrator and explore a world of possibilities. Kubo its beautiful. 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That should be a Bumper Sticker in the antidonald Trump Campaign. Were going to remember the tax returns tonight with david k. Johnston, who knows a lot about donald trump and taxes. But first, heres how it looked today on the campaign trail. We start with yet again a phrase we have heard in this campaign before. Nearly unprecedented. This campaign seems to be imploding like some decrepit piece of real estate. The campaign is doing really well. There have been conversations between officials and the children to try and get donald trump on message. Weve never been this united. No rational candidate would pick a fight with a gold star family. It makes no sense. He was very aware of the media reporting about the campaign disunity. Dont call me donald. Call me mr. President. Let me just point this out, though. Trump supporters dont care. Is there anything at this point that trum cop do that would make you not want to support him . No, not really. Trump can do no wrong. Hillary should have been locked up. Hillary hillary the campaign wants donald trump to focus on Hillary Clinton. We are not going to let him do to america what he has done to so many people. The clinton team is actively courting republicans and independents. Our biggest obstacle is the press. Theyre so dishonest. The disgusting people that work for the media. When donald trump is asked about where he makes things, he makes them anywhere else but america. Bangladesh, turkey, slovenia, mexico. I have many mexican people working for me. Theyre fantastic people. Were going to make this hotel and casino and resort the most successful in the world by with otezla, 75 clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months, with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. And the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. Dont take otezla if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. Otezla may increase the risk of depression. 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The trump taj mahal, which he no longer owns, will close forever in september. Donald trumps spectacular failures in Atlantic City are part of the story told in david k. Johnstons new book the making of donald trump. Joining us now, david k. Johnston. And i love the cover. But heres the thing. I think this line down here, the print should be bigger. The part where it says winner of the pulitzer prize. Well, thank you. That should be really big. So if in this era of limited Attention Spans a voter could take one story out of this book, one story that a voter should know out of this book, what is that most important story in this book . That donald trump put the life of an infant, his grand nephew, in jeopardy, to get revenge and he sought mercy for a major cocaine trafficker who managed his helicopters, supplied him with his helicopters, and moved into trump tower. Okay. Lets do the helicopter guy first and the baby after that. Well, so a convicted felon, mob guy named joey wexelbaum provided donald with his helicopters. There are a lot of Helicopter Companies that have provide with you service to run down to Atlantic City. Donald chose this guy for reasons that are not at all clear. They went bankrupt. They were subsidized by the state of new jersey. Donald kept hiring him. He eventually rented an apartment to this guy under unusual circumstances i describe in the book. When hes indicted, under your casino license as an owner you must prove by clear and convincing evidence your character and honesty. Donald should have cut him off. Donald keeps doing business with him. And his the case against him involving as much as 1,500 pounds of drugs at a time, and this guy physically handled the drugs, is between miami and cincinnati. The guy asked the case be moved to either miami or new york city where he lives. Instead it gets moved to new jersey, where it comes before judge mary ann trump berry. Whoa. Now, hold on, lawrence. Imagine youre the chief judge, and im a judge and i come stou and say ive got to get rid of this case, youve got to assign it to somebody else because my wife works for donald and flies in this drug dealers helicopters every week, i fly in them, our children fly in them. Yeah. How are you feeling, judge, about the danger to the integrity of the courts . Wow. Okay. And this baby story youre talking about . So before fred donald trump has an older brother fred jr. Who died many years ago. When the will was opened when fred trump sr. , Donald Trumps father, died, the four surviving children got virtually all the money and the line of fred jr. Got bubkes. Not unreasonable. That much i knew. They went to Court Challenging the will, an undue influence case. And donalds response was everybody in the trump family got medical care. Donalds a big believer in medical care. They immediately cut off medical care for the family even though they knew this child was desperately ill and had run up enormous bills. And when heidi evans of the new york daily news, a wonderful reporter, got to donald about this and said what about this, he said, well, he sued my father, i have to do this. And heidi says, well, dont you think its a little coldharted . Well, what else am i supposed to do . Donald trumps motto, donald trum whop says im a christian, who has all all these pastors supporting him, his motto is revenge. Hes written about it in chapters of books. Hes given speeches. And he has a word for people who follow the teachings of jesus christ. Schmuck. We just realized in the last few minutes that we know the tip of the iceberg about donald trump. This is all new stuff. Im going to take a quick break. Were going to come back with more. Ex. Do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain or adempas® for pulmonary hypertension. 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Im under audit too. And i would be delighted to meet him any place, anytime between now and election. Ill bring my tax return. He can bring his tax return. Nobodys going to arrest us. It is not there are no rules against showing your tax returns. And just let people ask us questions about the items that are on there. [ cheers and applause ] david cay johnston, one of the beats youve covered better than anyone is tax policy. The trump tax returns. I keep trying to get people to understand, there is absolutely no proof that hes even being audited. Thats right. Thats right. And if he is being audited, it may not be for his income tax returns. He has business entities that there are reporting forms. There could be zblsh he waved a letter from his lawyers which i have here and they indicate that some returns are under examination now, but they dont indicate whether theyre personal returns or not. All were talking about is his personal tax returns. Thats the first thing were talking about. Well wed like to see the company tax returns too. But at minimum the personal tax returns. And this is just a letter this is not the audit letter he would get from the irs, which he could easily show us. But lawrence, lets take him at his word. Okay. If you insist. If he says he cant show us the returns under audit, well, thats apparently only 2012 forward. Where are your returns from 1980 to 2011 . Theyre not under audit. Lets see those. And were never going to see them because we know that in 1984, and ive written about this and its in my book, donald prepared a tax return that his longtime tax lawyer and accountant said, well, thats my signature on the return, put there with a photocopy machine, but i didnt prepare that return. And he showed zero income for his freelance business as a consultant and 600plus thousand dollars of deductions he couldnt justify. And this is just one of many indications that donald has not paid taxes, in some cases because government has special rules for real estate people, but indications that hes cheated on his taxes. So we really did we ever get a peek in any litigation about what his charitable contributions are on his personal tax return . Well, from his Foundation Reports we know that hes given virtually nothing to his own foundation, that his foundation made a Campaign Contribution to which is absolutely illegal, to the attorney general of florida when he was under investigation by the attorney general of florida. And that he has only made one gift in the last ten years. Thats an indication he has no income. Theres one other element. He got something called the star tax credit in new york. The reason its an indication of no income is the charitable contribution wouldnt be deductible it wouldnt be so the cheapest man in the world isnt going to give you any thats exactly right. In addition to this he got something called the star rebate here in new york. You have to made under 500,000. Donald spun this as that he made a mistake. Uhuh. Its done by computer. And that tells you the computer said oh, taxable income, anything less than 500,000, you get the check. That tells you that donalds income is nowhere near what he wants you to think it is, at least as he puts it on the tax return. And we would see all that in the tax returns. Oh, yeah. Ask Hillary Clinton about when i reverse engineered her tax returns how livid she was at what i figured out. All right. We are quickly, what did you figure out in ten seconds . Paid more than twice as much federal income tax as the law required and the process shortchanged charity by the same amount and then she adopted my tax advice. Shortchanged charity how in. Because the government got the money instead of the charity. I see what youre saying. Were going to do more of this. David cay johnston, thank you very much. This is the mandatory campaign reading. The make of donald trump by david cay johnston. Here. Here. Or here. Today, theres a new option. Introducing drugfree aleve direct therapy. Well be right back. We have sad news tonight about a friend of the show. Former republican congressman and frequent guest here on the last word, steve latourette, has died. Congressman latourette was known for being a moderate republican in an increasingly conservative Republican Party. Steve latourette grew up in ohio, went to the university of michigan, and then returned to ohio for law school. He was elected to congress in 1994 and retired in 2003. At his retirement he said, ive always believed that the art of being a legislator is finding common ground. He is survived by his wife, jennifer, and six children. Steve latourette was 62 years old. Rogue elephant. Lets play hardball. Good evening. Im Chris Matthews in washington. Time to panic . Look at the Republican Leaders as they watch opportunity ralphing of support for trump. His campaign seems to be imploding like some decrepit piece of real estate. Reports are out there now Campaign Staffers are suicidal. That they are planning some sort of intervention. Standing amidst the tumult like baghdad bob, trump at a rally said his campaign is doing incredibly well. Lets watch