Transcripts For MSNBCW The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell 20160408

Im on very friendly territory with new york. I love new york. Everybody now knows were going to a convention. I am going to have great relationships with everybody when its time. Are you sleeping . Well, i havent started pouring baileys in my sericert yal. Its a sillily thing to say. This campaign will fight back. By far the best person to be president for several reasons. You know, a year, year and a half Something Like that. I love it because its so convenient. It is the best way to get around. Donald trump has a problem with woman, but he doesnt have a problem with men dressed as women if the man is also the mayor of new york city. You know, youre really beautiful. A woman that looks like that has to have her own special scent. Thank you. Maybe you could tell me what you think of this scent. I like that. This may be the best of all. Oh, you dirty boy. Donald, i thought you were a gentleman. You cant say i didnt try. That was the mayor in his last year as mayor when donald trump found him so attractive. He has been saying nice things about donald trump during the campaign and he spent last new years eve at Donald Trumps home and happily corrected Campaign Contributions so it came as no surprise when he was going to meet with ted cruz to discuss the new york primary. This morning a ted cruz spoex man said weve been working to line up a meeting. Donald trump believes that when he gives a politician money, he owns that politician. You said recently quote when you give they do whatever the hell you want them to do. You Better Believe it. So what scifically did they do . If i ask them, if i nee them, most of the people on this stage ive given to just so you understand, a lot of money. It didnt take donald trump long this morning to get the meeting ncelled forever. A couple of hours after the Cruz Campaign said they were working on scheduling that meeting, he told the New York Post i support trump. Im going to vote for trump. He said cruzs dumping on new york values to score political points rankled him. Here is the way ted cruz is explaining to new yorkers now what he means about new york values. Lets be clear. The people of new york know exactly what those values are wm theyre the values of liberal democratic politicians like cuomo, spitzer, all of whom donald trump has supported, given 10s tens of thousands of dollars throughout the years. John kasich who is polling behind trump made new york values the theme of his first tv ad in new york. In iowa ted cruz sneerd at our new york values. I think most people know what new york values are and theyre not our values and theyre not New Hampshire values. Ted cruz divides to get a vote. John kasich unites to get things done. Kasich turned his state around with grit and determination, something no something new yorkers should appreciate. The Trump Campaign cancelled a trip to california today. Joining me now is our panel. How disappointed are you that he went on the trump train . Its not surprising. They have had a relationship for a long time. And i will say this new york values thing really does matter because thats also a big part of gihis brand is new york. It will play in some of the districts that perhaps ted cruz was thinking he could get. But john kasich is sitting there as a style republican. The ad he did today, the tour that he did in the bronx was fantastic. He said i love new york. Thats the first rule. If you want to do something here, you have to show you may not be a new yorker, but you love new york. Thats exactly what he did. Again, he faces the same problem as ted cruz. How am i going to pick off a couple of delegates or at least stop trump from getting to 50. This message he made a very good impression on new yorkers unlike ted cruz. And when you look at that poll with john kasich in second place at 25 , if you imagine this new york race without him, donald trump might be up over 60 , 60 . Theres a lot of conversations that ted cruz is asking kasich to jump out and this may be a saving grace for him because new york values may not be aligned with ted cruz at all, especially because hes so conservative. If kasich wasnt in the race it would fortify the lead for trump. Hes ensuring theres a firewall between the 1237 delegates that trump needs and the Republican Party convention thats coming up. For strong frontrunners when the president ial primaries come to their state, they get to leave town. They get to play down the road. They get to play in colorado. They get to play in california when they know theyve got their own state locked up. Donald trumps looking at that 52 and obviously is not confident in it. Right. Hes coming off a loss in wisconsin. Hes way ahead in the polls, but he really he really has to win new york, right. If trump were somehow to lose his home state, the state that is identified with his whole persona, but i dont think would happen, but it would be catastrophic for his campaign. Hes going to this is whats in front of him. I think his saving grace is i dont think new york is ever going to be in a ted cruz state of mind. Theres john kasich and john kasichs on tv. John kasich did well in New Hampshire. And then we have this new Associated Press poll today and this is a National Poll on donald trump favorability. He has a 69 unfavorable, a 26 favorable. And susan, it just seems inconceivable that the republicans would send that guy into a general election. I couldnt agree with you more, especially when you start looking at what the enconventio is about. We keep talking about this 1237 number but what theyre saying is if you cant win more than half of the republicans how could you think you can win the county. Thats what its about and thats a narrative you are going to hear more about. Donald trump cannot win 50 of republicans. Then he shouldnt be the partys nominee. Where do they go from that . Let me put up one more from the Associated Press. Would you vote for donald trump . Definitely no. Definitely no, wont vote for donald trump. They know it right now tonight. 63 of voters will not vote for him. Would consider him 19 , definitely yes, 16 . And you have to wonder, i mean when youre heading to a convention, theyre going to be those delegates are going to be staring at those numbers. 63 definitely wont vote for him. Lets say he doesnt have the nomination locked in. Why would any more delegates go in his direction. The polls are going to be better for every other republican they can think about. Tell that to the trump people. There are going to be a lot of Trump Delegates there. Hes going to have more than anybody else probably. He may be close to 1237 if he hasnt already achieved it and then what . I mean does the party make an argument that, sure, while donald trump couldnt get half the republicans the republican delegates so were going to give it to somebody who did less well than donald trump and couldnt get a third or a fourth of the republican delegates . I think thats a heavy lift for the delegates, even as theyre staring down the barrel of a general election. That could be historically bad for them. Its a less heavy lift every time donald trump says something al enating people. I think its one of the reasons why hes doing less one on ones. What he surfaced is his position of how he felt about women and its not women that got turned off by that statement, but you had fathers and folks saying not this guy. The more hes out there and feels he has basically a free pass is when he starts to basically really disclosing how he feels. Thats one of the reasons why hes starting to surround himself with a different type of advisor that is much more politically atuned to what he needs to say to possibly not lose california and so on. So hes becoming hes trying and perhaps a little too late trying to be more polished, but its because he stuck his foot in his mouth. Some people continue to say paul ryan, speaker of the house, you worked on an effort how would you describe it . It was an online petition effort to try to get 1 Million People to say yes we would support paul ryan. He asked you to shut it down. And then today today paul ryan who asked you to shut that down, basically released a commercial for himself. Lets look at this. What really bothers me the most in politics these days is this notion of identity politics that were going to win an election by dividing people, rather than inspiring people on our common ideas and culture, on the things that should unify us. We all want to be healthy and we want everybody to succeed. We want people to reach their potential. Now liberals and conservatives are going to disagree with that, no problem. Thats what this is all about. So lets have a battle of ideas. Lets have a contest of whose ideas are better and why our ideas are better. Thats from a speech he made a couple of weeks ago that we covered the night he did it. What is he doing . He knows that everybody thinks theres a lot of talk out there saying they might try to go to him for the nomination. You dont put that out now in this climate if youre not trying to fan that talk. Unless youre also trying to be the grown up in the room within the Republican Party, which it desperately needs. He has to he now potentially may worry about losing seats in the house. Hes got a lot of work to continue to do. This is saying im the grown up in the room. He said it. He gave a speech a couple of weeks ago. Why does it look like a commercial for a campaign . Its a very nice video. Sometimes they do that. Go ahead. If you listen to what hes saying, it sounds very much about barack obama saying that we are all americans at the end of the day. It sounds very president ial and it reminds me of when he said i dont want to be speaker and then he became speaker. I think hes saying if we do need an alternative and nobodys behind the three current frontrunners in the republican scenarios, no one is behind donald trump, cruz or kasich so hes like if were going to broker it, it could just be me. Thank you all for joining me tonight. Really appreciate it. Coming up, Jeffry Goldberg is here with his look inside president obamas Foreign Policy Decision Making as told to him directly by president obama and we have the late oes in the campaign and how Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton today stepped back at least temporarily from the brink. Sure, we could have stacked these tires. Or put them on a rack. 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It is now being predicted that both donald trump and ted cruz could hurt republican candidates in other races if either of them wins the republican president ial nomination the following republican senators are already a bit less likely to win their senate races. Also in North Carolina republican governors race is called a toss up after the reaction to that new antilgbt law there. Hey pal . You ready . Can you pick me up at 6 30 . Ah. boy im here im here cop too late. I was gone for fe minutes ugh move it. Youre killing me. You know what, dad . Im good. dad it may be quite a while before hes ready, but our Subaru Legacy will be waiting for him. vo the longestlasting midsize sedan in its class. The twentysixteen Subaru Legacy. Its not just a sedan. Its a subaru. Her long day as anne. Hair stylist starts with shoulder pain when. Hey joanne, want to trade the all day relief of 2 aleve with 6 tylenol . Give up my 2 aleve for 6 tylenol . No thanks. For me. Its aleve. Bernie sanders threw a big shock into the Democratic Campaign for president last night when he said the thing you are never supposed to say about your opponent in a campaign for the partys nomination. She thinks that i am quote unquote not qualified to be president. [ boos ] let me let me just say in response to secretary clinton. I dont believe that she is qualified if she is [cheers and applause] if she is through her super pac taking tens of millions of dollars in special interest funds. I dont think that you are qualified if you get 15 million from wall street through your super pac. I dont think you are qualified if you have voted for the disastrous war in iraq. So the reason candidates in the same party never say that the other one is not qualified unless theyre running against donald trump is that it is deeply allen nating to all those clinton supporters in this case who Bernie Sanders is going to need in a general election if hes the democratic nominee and it makes it almost impossible for Bernie Sanders to endorse Hillary Clinton if she is the democratic nominee. How can Bernie Sanders endorse someone who hes said is not qualified to be president. So as tempting as it is to say it, candidates resist it as Hillary Clinton did when she was invited to say Bernie Sanders is nodd not qualified. She didnt say Bernie Sanders is qualified, but she did not say he is not qualified. It would not be unfair to infer that she thinks that Bernie Sanders is not qualified, but she was very careful not to say it. You know the way a secretary of state would be very careful in her choice of words. The Democratic Campaign could have gone off the rails this morning in new york if Hillary Clinton said Bernie Sanders is not qualified to be president or if she demanded an apology and turned the issue of a new York Campaign into will bernie apologize. She could have done that. Instead she chose to laugh it off. Bernie sanders seems to think youre not qualified. Well, its kind of a sillily thing to say but im going to trust the voters of new york who know me and have voted for me three times, twice for senate and once in the president ial primary. I didnt say i dont know why hes saying that, but i will take Bernie Sanders over donald trump or ted cruz any time. And Bernie Sanders took a step back this morning too turning the question of Hillary Clintons qualification for presidency back into a maybe. When you have headlines in the Washington Post quote clinton questions whether sanders is qualified to be president , my response is if you want to question my qualifications, let me suggest this that maybe the American People might wonder about your qualifications madam secretary. Joining us now casy hunt. They diffused the bomb today. I dont know about that. I think you also heard Bernie Sanders Bernie Sanders lay down the law when he kept going on in that press conference he said i will not be dismissed just because im from a small state doesnt mean that i dont know what its like to play political hardball and if youre going to do this to me ill learn how do it right back. I think it was a warning shot in a wayened a he was reacting to that Washington Post headline as well as some reporting that the Clinton Campaign was going to try to disqualify him in the course of running in this new york primary. I think what you saw was really sanders own personal frustration. The quickest way to get Bernie Sanders to shut down a line of argument or conversation is to suggest that he doesnt have a right to be there, that hes not shouldnt be part of this president ial conversation. I think thats what you saw. People around him have been urging him to go further against Hillary Clinton for months now and he never has. Hes ratcheted up the rhetoric. Thats the candidate himself deciding to put his foot down and say im going to try to put a stop to that. Kasie what would going further be . I think you have seen over the years quite a few very personal attacks levelled at the clintons. I think youve seen donald trump do some of it. Thats not part of the democratic fight conversation right now and i dont see any world in which Bernie Sanders goes there. I mean even this version of it is essentially his stump speech with this criticism added on to it. Those are the things he always says. Thanks for joining us. Were joined now by frank rich, writer at large for new york magazine. Frank i want to show you how Hillary Clintons tv day is going to start tomorrow morning because it already happened in a pretape for the today show. Lets watch this. Came right out and said he doesnt think youre qualified to be president. Well, that will be up to the voters of new york and the other states that will be passing judgment in the weeks ahead. I think its kind of a sillily statement, but hes free to say whatever he chooses. Is he qualified to be president. Well, heeres what i believe i believe voters will be looking at both of us, but i will take Bernie Sanders over donald trump or ted cruz any time. I thought she handled it brilliantly from the provocation right through to now. She has her story now and shes sticking to it since we have the sound bite. I agree laughing it off was the best way to go. Also the campaigns unfolding in new york. Its kind of a new york thing to do and keep on moving. The whole thing with the manufactured event to begin with because Bernie Sanders was wrong. She never quote, unquote said that he was unqualified. A Washington Post headline writer did, which is an entirely different thing. Its really about nothing. Also she knows the way this equation works. She knows if she gets the nomination she needs Bernie Sanders supporters who arent feeling great about her right now so she wants this thing to disappear. Exactly. Shes shown signs in the past week or so of being really exaspirated with sanders and his campaign. She had a moment of youre stop lying about my record kind of moment a week or so ago, but shes gotten past it and she does need them because theyre a very energized and very large segment of the democratic base. If they sit home and she doesnt have the turnout, its a problem even perhaps running against a clown. And shes got a very rough general election coming up if she is the nominee. I mean in the history of the fbi and in the history of president ial campaigning, there is exactly one president ial candidate who has been under investigation during the president ial campaign. Exactly one. You would never know that if you listened to the Bernie Sanders campaign. You will know it if you listen to the Republican Campaign against Hillary Clinton as a nominee. Absolutely. We also dont know where that investigation is going. Even assuming its relatively benign, it can whatever the fbi says or does can be framed by someone like donald trump or ted cruz in a way thats damning to the people who look at the fine print. Its a big issue. She compared her anticipated version of running against donald trump to be similar to her experience almost running against rudy for senate in 2000. Lets listen to this. He would go into from being a tough Decision Maker into really being a bully. I think i said Something Like im not going to respond to his tantrums. I felt like that was the best way to deal with an opponent who would try to drag you on to his turf and then use every advantage he had to really knock you down. There certainly are similarities if im the democratic nominee and trump is the republican nominee. So she never actually ran against him. He dropped out for Health Reasons and if you think that rudy was as rough as donald trump is going to be if hes the nominee, weve got something weve got news for you. Exactly. Also, if it had happened was so vulnerable on the kind of issues that trump that really the below the belt issues that trump will go after the clintons on and trump his marital life and sex life is an open book, however shab bye some of it may be, so hes sort of inokay lated against some of that. Theres certain superficial similarities, but trump is something else. So what is your view of what will happen on the republican nomination . Do you think if trump doesnt have the number going into the nomination that they will get nomination delivered to someone else . I dont understand how this works because the base 70 of the base wants some version of trump or cruz. So how are you going to tell that 70 to not have the guys that they voted for who represent their views. Is the establishment really going to bring in a paul ryan and whats in it for paul ryan to have the whole base hate him. You know how, the establishment is actually going to be here later in the show. The republican lawyer who runs a lot of these conventions, hes going to tell me how theyre going to do it. He wont tell you how its going to go down. He wont give me the name of the nominee. Coming up, donald trump versus president obama on Foreign Policy. Take on the unexpected. The new 2016 nissan altima. Built to stand out. 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If you have any of these, stop chantix and call your doctor right away. Tell your doctor about any history of Mental Health problems, which could get worse or of seizures. Dont take chantix if youve had a serious allergic or skin reaction to it. If you have these, stop chantix and call your doctor right away as some can be lifethreatening. Ll your doctor if you have heart or blood vessel problems, or develop new or worse symptoms. Get medical help right away if you have symptoms of a heart attack or stroke. Decrease aohol use while taking chantix. Use caution when driving or operating machinery. Most common sideaffect is nausea. I did it. I quit smoking. Ask your doctor if chantix is right for you. Here aes the way it looked today on the campaign trail in new york and pennsylvania. Lets have a serious conversation. The gloves are coming off because theres such a fierce fight right now in new york. If you want to question my qualifications let me suggest this. We have going to have to unify democrats. Maybe the American People might wonder about your qualifications, madam secretary. I dont know why hes saying that. Are you qualified to be president . She didnt actually ever say he wasnt qualified. The fact that sanders went where he went with this attack tells you a lot about where his head is. Of course Hillary Clinton is qualified. Theres no plausability to any argument that shes not qualified. Im not going to get baeaten the democratic field consists of a socialist with ideas that are dangerous for america and the world and Bernie Sanders. Ted cruz and donald trump, theyre still locked in a battle here in new york. Donald trump wants the ticket. Is this Trump Country where we are . I would have to say yes. Governor, the results in wisconsin were very tough for you not getting any delegates. Does that undercut your argument about Going Forward to the convention. These were antitrump votes more than they were proted cruz votes. Here in new york were now running in second. Anybody really want to ask me a question of importance. I will take Bernie Sanders over donald trump or ted cruz any time. This is an unusual election. Would you admit that . Ke . Is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student . Is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves . Is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the Natural World . Whatever your definition of success is, helping you pursue it, is ours. Tiaa. Wyou could just forget frthe beach wedding. And the beach booty. You could just book a different resort. Like in alaska. Theyve got igloos. Wopen up a lot of dawn. Tough on grease. Yet gentle. Dawn helps open. Something even bigger. Go to facebook. Com, dawn saves wildlife. Its easy to love your laxative when that lax loves your body back. Only miralax hydrates, eases and softens to unblock naturally, so you have peace of mind from start to finish. Love your laxative. Miralax. If it breaks up nato, it breaks up nato. Today we have a radical islamic threat, a term our present doesnt want to mention. President obama said this resentsly. I believe we have to avoid being simplistic. I believe we have to make sure our political debates are grounded in reality. Its not that i dont appreciate the value of theater and political communications, its that the habits we have, the media, politicians have gotten into and how we talk about these issues are so detached so often from what we need to be doing that for me to satisfy the cable news hypefest would lead to us making worse and worse additides over time. Joining me now is the National Correspondent from the atlantic. This comes with the extraordinary piece that youve written with access to president obama telling you things like that. I want quick note to viewers, if you read one Foreign Policy article in your life, read this one. It reads like a book, but i want to get into some of these details here. You cant hold it in your hands and read it and not feel even for revulen for whats being said by donald trump about Foreign Policy, also ted cruz tal talking about carpet bombing. Talk about what the president wag was talking about how simplistic the candidates are making this sounds. It was kind of an odd experience for me because i was reporting this out as the campaign was reaching full throttle so id be having these conversations with the president , which are pretty as you can tell are pretty nuance conversations. You might disagree with the conclusions that he reaches after reasoning through these issues, but its a very its a very mature conversation that i think hes trying to have with the country and then on then you have kind of a circuslike atmosphere where youre talking about destroying nato and handing Nuclear Weapons and building walls. This has no bearing on reality. The analysts would say the things in particular mr. Trump are saying that these dont have any bearing on the complicated interplay between states that exists today. It doesnt make any sense. When you read it, you also have this horrible feeling of how can this thoughtful passage, how can it compete with these sou sound bites and what the president talks about that happens on cable news. The shame of it is that this would be an interesting moment because again i want to make this point very clearly. The president reaches certain conclusions about the way the world is organized and americas role in the world and you might disagree with those conclusions and thats fine, but you can see the process of how hes gotten there. What would be interesting would be to have a similar debate on the republican side so you can match these things up. You have one person doing it seriously and then this Foreign Policy National Security debate things that are not grounded in reality. You talked through with him one of the most controversial moments which is this motion of a red line in syria that he pronounced at a certain point involving chemical weapons, then assad crossed that line, although he was getting intelligence indicating were not sure whether he crossed the red line. Theyre pretty sure he did. Ultimately the president that line having been crossed came very close to ordering a military response to that and then went for that hour long walk on the white house grounds. Very dramatic description of this where he changed his mind. Tell us about how that happened and how he worked his thinking through that. I think by the time of that walk which was on a friday afternoon august 30th, 2013, i think he had realized by then that he didnt want to do this thing. He didnt want to bomb these sites in syria. The reason this is sort of the moment that i described i dont know if he would see it this way, as a hinge moment in his presidency where he decided he wasnt going to do the thing that people expected him to do based on what he calls the Washington Play book. The set of steps that a president is supposed to take if hes provoked by another country. What he basically said to himself was if i continue to go down this path of direct confrontation with the assad regime, this is all im going to be doing for the entire second term, i dont want to get consumed by the middle east and also im not sure its going to work. By that point he had come to the conclusion that theres very limited that america has very limited ability to shape outcomes in the middle east so he saw himself as saying to the world im not stepping on the slippery slope. This was controversial and well be debating this for years if not decades. That was the moment when he said im not going down a path that i dont see a good outcome down this path. If he took that action, it wouldnt get rid of the chemical weapons, he ended up getting rid of the chemical weapons. He was lucky in that sense that Vladimir Putin comes in and they engineer something that people thought would be impossible, the removal of the chemical weapons from syria. So from the critics perspective is you made a promise, you vowed to enforce a red line and you didnt so our credibility was hurt. From his perspective he got rid of chemical represents from a dangerous country without going to war, which of course you could flip that and say george w. Bush went into iraq and had a war. So obama thinks he cos out ahead. Hillary clinton sharply digreed with him on this and wanted military action and i urge everyone to read this article and you can make your own decision about who was right. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. Thank you. Coming up, Trump Campaign has been doing a terrible job of chasing delegates and you do have to chase them. Cruz campaigns been doing a great job. Well go on a tour of the delegate rules at the Republican Convention, the first rule being there are no rules. I use whats already inside me to reach goals. So i liked when my doctor told me i may reach my blood sugar and a1c goals by activating whats within me. With onceweekly trulicity. Trulicity is not insulin. It helps activate my body to do what its supposed to do release its own insulin. Trulicity responds when my blood sugar rises. I take it once a week, and it works 24 7. It comes ian easytouse pen and i may even lose a little weight. Trulicity is a onceweekly injectable prescription medicine to improve blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. It should be used along with diet and exercise. 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So i feel like im ready to take on anything. We cannot bring back the 29 men we lost. They are with the lord now. Our task here on earth is to save lives from being lost in another such tragedy. Six years ago 29 coal miners in West Virginia were killed in a mine explosion. The ceo of the company that owned that mine was sentenced wednesday for conspiring to willfully violate federal mine safety standards. He was sentenced to one year in prison and ordered to pay 250,000 in a fine. Coming up, the capacity for intrigue at the Republican Convention is officially limitless. This is where i met your grandpa. Right under this tree. man some things are Worth Holding onto. Theyre hugging the tree. man thats why we got a subaru. Or was it that tree . man the twentysixteen subaru outback. Love. Its what makes a subaru, a subaru. This is lloyd. To prove to you that the better choice for him is aleve. Hes agreed to give it up. Ok, but i have 30 acres to cover by sundown. Well be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. Yeah, i was ok, but after lunch my knee started hurting again so. More pills. Yep. Another pill stop. Can i get my aleve back yet . For my pain. I want my aleve. Get all day minor arthritis pain relief with an easy open cap. Shoshow me more like this. E. Show me previously watched. Whats recommended for me. X1 makes it easy to find what you love. Call or go online and switch to x1. Only with xfinity. Donald trump cancelled a rally today where the republicans were in the process for selecting republicans for the national convention. Ted cruz has a strong operation in colorado trying to get as many delegates as possible. Jacob, where are you . Whats going on there . Reporter this is colorado. This is the center of american politics. Tonight albeit incredibly under the radar and that is because the ted Cruz Campaign is fighting tooth and nail for three unbound delegates coming out of this congressional convention. You know about this because of your conversations. Ted cruz is fighting for these to stop trump from hitting the 1237 delegates it will take to win the republican nomination on the first ballot. I cant tell you the last time there was National Attention on the Congressional District convention in a church in colorado, but we are seeing it here tonight. 6,000 people get together in a hockey arena on saturday. Unbound delegates are not bound to the will of any voters. In fact, there is no popular vote in the great state of colorado. There used to be a beauty contest in this state and Rick Santorum won it in the last president ial election and they got rid of it. What the party is doing here now is assigning delegates that will go to the national convention. If trump gets to 1237 on that first ballot he will not have to worry about it, but the cruz kman campaign is putting down slates for. Back to you. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Up next, ben beginsburg will explain the republican rules and how they might work against donald trump. One of Donald Trumps long time political advisors roger stone is telling Trump Supporters that republicans plan to steal the nomination from donald trump. Heres what he said earlier this week. Were looking at a very narrow path in wing the king makers go all out to cheat and steal and snatch this nomination from the candidate who is overwhelmingly selected by the vote earth. I have urged Trump Supporters come to cleveland, march on cleveland. Were going to have protests and demonstrations. We will disclose the hotels and room numbers of those delegates who are directly involved in the steal. Republican National Committee chairman responded last night. Its totally over the line. Were going to have 50 million in security. Well make sure that every delegate is safe. Joining us now, ben ginsburg. Whats your reaction to roger stone for Trump Supporters to come to cleveland. March on cleveland and attack the oh telhotels that the repub delegates are in. Ive known roger. Its in keeping with his past pattern and practices. But really i think the chairman is right and that threatening delegates is probably over the line and im not sure why its helpful to his candidate. And you see donald trump cancelling his trip to the colorado where they need delegates. Theyre staying in new york where they are worried apparently about how strongly theyre going to show in new york. They seem like a campaign thats been unable to do both, unable to deal with the voters and campaign for voters the way ted cruz does and work the delegate side of this. Hes been very successful at winning voters and winning states. He does have more votes than any other candidate and i think they now realize with the naming of paul matta fort this is a two step process where delegate selection is an important part. So stiechometimes in a campaign you need the planning time to execute down the road, thats what you do. Ben, this cannot be repeated enough and youve said it many times, there are no rules for the 2016 convention. Those rules will be written and adopted by that convention. Thats their first order of business. Correct. As a matter of law, a convention needs to pass rules for itself. The 2016 convention can say we want the 2012 rules and were not going to change a word, but they do have to have an affirmative vote thats what theyre going to do. You mentioned something the other night about the way a delegate actually what they have to do through in actually approving theyre with a candidate to the point where every delegate has to actually sign something saying im voting for donald trump or ted cruz or whoever it is on that first ballot. Well, what the first ballot is especially, theyre votes will be recorded by the secretary according to the results of the state. What we were referring to and what really is important part of the process is how a candidate gets put in nomination. In past conventions theyve had to actually sign a petition that says i want this person to be put in nomination. Thats the majority of delegates in eight states rule from 2012 and while a delegate may be bound to a candidate for the vote on the first ballot, theyre not bound to sign that candidates nomination petition. And which creates an absolutely fascinating scenario because the signature is in effect the vote, about ut rules simply as its currently written says you must vote, says nothing about you must sign this. Thats correct. The nominating petitions do not have to be signed by delegates who are bound. What makes it more interesting is that as a just a practical matter its really tough to get delegates to sign those things before the Convention Starts because theyre spread out all over a state. So by tradition those nominating petitions get circulated the night before the Convention Starts. So its usually been a pro forma process, tonight on all in. If im going to be attacked for being unqualified, ill respond in quiet. The democratic race becomes an unqualified brawl. Look, i dont know why hes saying that. Secretary clinton responds and the sanders camp escalates. Really made a deal with the deal and the devil wants his due. What this fight means for bernie versus hillary. Why bill clintons clash with protesters could have major impact on the race