Democrat. Im asking you to reconsider it. The gop frontrunner says hes skipping thursdays fox news debate. I was not treated fairly. You know that, right . Lets look at it from a broader point of view rather than how you feel. You doesnt get to control the media. Ive got news for you, he is controlling the media. Trying to look bigger than fox, bigger than the debate. Trump may not show up on the fox news stage on thursday, but hes received another offer. Well do 90 minutes donald and me. There you go, donald trump finally responded to ted cruzs challenge, can we do it in canada. Were going to go on forever with these debates. Thats what americas about. Dont walkw away from it. You owe me i want them. This is a wilder sign that i can remember. Donald trump is afraid of megyn kelly. He has spent months proving that, but he is more afraid of Hillary Clinton and hes more afraid of Bernie Sanders and that is why he pulled out of the fox news debate. He is setting the precedent now of refusing to debate in the general election against a democrat, but because he knows in a oneonone debate, which hes never been in against a democrat, donald trump would get wiped out. The last two and a half hour debate donald trump spoke a total of 17 minutes, 8 seconds. In a one on one debate against a democrat trump would have to speak much more than that. No one knows better than donald trump that donald trump doesnt know anything, that he is an utter ignorant on all matters of governing and the more time he has in a debate, the more time there is to expose that. And no one can do that better than someone who disagrees with his policies. No one can do that better than a democrat. And the republican debates, everyone else on the stage agrees with donald trump about most policy issues, the game in the republican debates is to prove you are conservative enough. Donald trump has no idea how to debate anyone who will attack him for being too conservative. Donald trump is ducking a debate being run by the network where the highest rated host calls him a friend on his show and where he is the favorite guest of most of the other hosts. Why would that donald trump then submit in the general election to questions in debates hosted by neutral networks who are not open friends of trump and supporters of trump . Donald trump doesnt know much, but he knows that someone whos ignorant about government cannot debate his way to the presidency. Donald trump is now playing the long game. Tomorrow night is only the first debate that donald trump will refuse to participate in, but his friend of 35 years doesnt seem to understand that yet. And so bill, beg to donald to show up at the fox news debate tomorrow. I bought you so many vanilla milk shakes you owe me. I want you to consider, think about it and say look i might come back. Forgive, go forward, answer the questions, look out for the folks. Just want you to consider it. You owe me milk shakes. Ill take them off the ledger if you consider it. Well, even though and i had an agreement that you wouldnt ask me that, which we did, i will forget that you asked me that, but its up to fox. Its not up to me. Youre telling the truth the there. Youre telling the truth. I said upfront dont ask me that question because its an embarrassing question to you. Im not going to listen to any political person tell me dont ask me anything. I said ill try not do do the milk shake thing, just overwhelm me. Im asking you to reconsider it. If you dont want to, its up to you and ill give you a compliment i dont know in he politician under any circumstances that would have done what you did tonight. A few minutes ago the stakes around the drama have escalated a little bit. Super pacs have offered donations to charts if donald trump agrees to debate ted cruz in response to ted cruz challenge of a one on one debate the principal donors of the keep the promise one and two super pacs are offering president ial candidate donald trump a fantastic deal pledging to donate 1. 5 million to charts if mr. Donald trump agrees to debate senator cruz in iowa. Joining us now political analyst and Senior Editor for the atlantic. I have never bought either one of these guys a milk shake. Jonathan, if donald trump wins in iowa after skipping this debate, why would he ever debate again . I think its a great point. He zpt want to debate these other republicans in smaller groups either. Why does he want to go one on one with ted cruz who was the top debater in the whole country when i was at princeton and we know knows his way around a debate and he wont want to go against Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders. The question is whether he can get aaway with it. So the first president ial debate was in 1960, kennedy versus nixon. Then in 1964 lbj said no to debate. 68 nixon had a big lead. He said no debates, same thing in 72. So it wasnt until 76 jimmy carter that the debate tradition really started. The question is whether for 40 years later with everybody assuming there are going to be debates that trump can get away with it this. I think what well have is a long debate over debates and then trump will be forced to cry uncle and attend them. I think donald trump has been willing to point to the ice enhour administration on his policies involving the mexican boarder. I dont see him having any problem pointing to the years we had no president ial debate and saying look the country got on just fine without president ial debates. First about the milk shake, this is msnbc so i assume i would get a kale smoothy. I think you are wrong. Youre indulging your way of looking at politics. These debates are not places where candidates line up their policy ideas and micro detect flaws. This is like a scene from 2001 with the apriips and bones. That is why donald trump really did, although he didnt always make sense, he completely crushed jeb bush because he dominated him and right now donald trump is engaged in a dominance contest with what has been for the miss six years the most powerful force and he is breaking them publicly and he is forcing them to submit. So if the question is who is the strongest force, hes winning that argument. One of the things i kind of wonder about if it should happen, its hard to imagine if it should happen that donald trump does win the republican nomination he is going do do a fast pivot to the senate. He used to be can more of a gun controller. He used to be more in favor of National Health care. What hes done is punched fox news in the mouth and gotten away with it. I strongly doubt it, but this is one of those great save the video nights because were going to find out in the general election if trump is the nominee whether he engageles in the debates or not and if my guess is right or not. Well be back to discuss that if it happens. Lets listen to what he tried to teach him a religious lesson to appeal to his religious principals to come and do the debate tomorrow night. I want people to know you. Ive never you 35 years. They dont know you. I know you. You went to church last week. You dont usually go. You went to church in iowa. I do go. I go a lot. I go to church a lot. Youre a religious protestant. In your christian faith, there is a very significant tenant and thats the ten apartment of forgiveness and i think you should forgive not only journalists who come at you in ways you dont like, but i think you should be the bigger man and say i didnt like it and you should make that case all day long, but im not going to take any action against it. Dont you think thats the right thing to do . It probably is. It probably is. So he tarks to me its all about monday night. He wins iowa. His strategy of sitting out the debate is proven. You didnt have to do anything. You doesnt have to lift a finger to win New Hampshire and roll on to South Carolina from there. We have to pause for a minute and absorb what we saw. This is one bully elect yurg another playground bully elect on the playground. This is two out of the three biggest bullies in our public life right there talking christian ethics. That may be true in the republican dinosaur debate, but one on one, one on one, we saw in those debates with mitt romney and with president obama that specifics mattered. I guess where i tend to side a little bit more with david is that you can do that. I think youre right that trump might do this because he can get away with it and why take the risk of debates if he doesnt have to. Hes doing well enough without the debates, why debate, but i dont think hes afraid because i think he does say it as an alpha male contest and hes very confident in his ability to master those events. Where youre on to something is that he wouldnt brag quite so much if he wasnt a bundle of insecurities deep inside. So at a certain point were going to find where that insecurity lies because the process is relentless in exposing people. So now trump has been exposed as a jerk. Well see whether hes exposed as a coward. I dont think this incident does it. Quickly, there are psychology teachers who are using tapes of trump to teach what narcissistic insecurity looks like. Politicians are narcissists. If people were completely secure why would they go into politics in the first place. Who needs this kind of validation. Its important to understand that he didnt run away from a fight in this case and p i dont a say this to build him up, but understand what happened here. Who is dominating whom and that is thats going to be the important question even in trumps absence, if he indeed absent he will be the overwhelming force. He will be more present by not being there. Thank you both for joining me tonight. Coming up, some Veterans Groups do not want to join donald trump in the fight against megyn kelly and fox news and Michael Moore is here to react to rachels town hall in flint tonight and we have new information about the standoff in oregon and we now know the identity of that armed malitia man who was killed by police. He has appeared on this program. And the last word tonight about a very special hero. When youve got a house full of guests on the way and a cold with sinus pressure, you need fast relief. Alkaseltzer plus severe sinus congestion and cough liquid gels rush relief to your tough symptoms. To put you back in control. [doorbell] woman coming alkaseltzer plus sinus. And feeling good, sort of. N and real, and 500 calories or less. The clean pairings menu. At panera. Food as it should be. Grow old with me let us share what we see just you and i grow old with me let us share what we see and oh the best it could be just you and i i know there was some discussion the other day about a Political Interview where he was tipping the scale towards secretary clinton. I dont believe that at all. I think he and the Vice President have tried to be president and even handed in the process and i expect them to continue to be that way. Bernie sanders met with president obama today. Senator sanders asked for the meeting in december. The president has had two similar meetings with Hillary Clinton. Martin omalley hasnt asked to meet with the president. Up next, a Veterans Group says they will not let donald trump hide behind them in his fight with megyn kelly and fox news. I dont know anything. I think it landed last tuesday. One second its there. Then, woosh, its gone. I swear i saw it swallow seven people. Seven. I just wish one of those people could have been mrs. Johnson. [dog bark] trust me, were dealing with a higher intelligence here. The allnew audi q7 is here. In the true sense theyre our greatest people. Everybody say we have Illegal Immigrants that are taken care of better than our vets. Its not going to happen. Its not going to happen. From here, where do i go . Im going to iowa. What am i going to do there . Who the held knows. Were going to raise a lot of money for the vets. Thats what were going to do. Were going to raise a lot of money. That was donald trump tonight in South Carolina. Two veterans organizations do not support Donald Trumps political stunts scheduled for tomorrow night. They said if offered we will decline donations from trumps event. We need strong policies from candidates not to be used for political stunts. The group said in a statement dont hide from megyn kelly behind us. The chairman said today let me put this in language donald trump understands, youre a looser, youre a third rate politician who doesnt understand issues and who is so scared of megyn kelly exposing it that youre looking to use veterans to protect you from facing her questions. Joining us now is the chairman of vote vets. Org. You made it clear to donald trump. Do you know of any veterans organizations that are participating in this event with him tomorrow . I dont. The last time he did this it was after he insulted john mccain and he went and stood in front of a naval ship with a group called veterans for secure america which ended up not being a legitimate organization. They didnt file paperwork with t the i rs. Its going to be a group that he created. Give us more much your reaction when you see a candidate like this saying for political reasons im going to do this debate, but here is what im going to do instead and im going to try to get Veterans Groups to help me out, whats your reaction to that . I think the first thing is when you run for president you have to be commander in chief. I think for those of us who have severed overseas this is a guy trying to dodge a serious conversation about where he stands on issues. I think his tempment comes into request question. Youre not just a twitter president like hes sort of been a twitter candidate. You have to lead men and women in combat. I think his temperament is at issue. The second issue is hiding behind veterans. I think donald trump is a huge narcissist and hes trying to hide behind people that have credibility and i think its up to us to stand up and say you dont care about us, you havent done anything for us and dont use it because youre afraid to answer questions from megyn kelly. Whats your reaction to what he says about veterans in terms of policy . I use the term policy lightly is because all he says is im going to be great. I havent heard him say a specific sentence of anything he would do. If you look alt his website it says like the veterans fares. Its not called veterans affairs. He has a struggle with understanding basic policy. Right now hes saying is veterans can go out to private doctors. Theres no better tested message against privatization than taking a veteran and telling them youre going to hand them over to a private health care company. Hes light on policy and i think thats par for the course for him. Hes light on a variety of other issues including how he feels about latinos and immigrants. Hes someone who strikes us as doesnt have any indepth knowledge of how to help veterans. 20 of our troops are coming back with issues like ptsd. No substance with helping veterans. When you met him i walked up to him and i said i served in iraq and im trying to help veterans serve in office. He looked at me and said send me a letter in the mail and walked away from me. That was all i had to know of donald trump that when i met him personally he dismissed trying to help is veterans. Thank you have very much for joining us tonight. Coming up, Michael Moore is here with his reaction to the town hall meeting in his hometown of flint, michigan tonight. Ury. Born with a hunger to fly and a passion to build something better. And what an amazing time its been, decade after decade of innovation, inspiration and wonder. 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We need to start using the proper words when we talk about this. Ten people have been killed in flint. Ten people were killed here because of a political decision to save money and put at lives the risks the risk the lives of people here in the city that is majority africanamerican where 41 live below the official poverty line. That was Michael Moore in his hometown of flint 11 days ago. Here is michigan governor today. Our goal is to get that water coming out of the tap safe as soon as possible. Lets take care of the people of flint about making sure they have bottle water, filters, Everything Else they need and how do we get good water coming out of the tap and how do we rebuilt the community. The governor was a no show at the town hall event tonight. We asked the governor if he would come tonight to this town hall he never said no. He never said anything. Joining us now is Michael Moore. Big surprise, the governor didnt come to the town meeting tonight. Certainly not to rachels because shes been all over this for months, long before any of the other National Media came to flint, rachel was there. I know everybody in flint tonight was happy and proud to have her there. You have said theres a an this is a man made disaster by inadequate structures and designs in new orleans. This was there was nothing everything about this, everything about it was man made. Thats correct. It was man made by a governor who belongs to the Political Party whos philosophy has been since 1980 that they believe that Less Government is better and the trickle down economic theory, the philosophy that says we only have to listen to the 1 that put us in office. If you live in a city where 40 of the people live below the official poverty line and 60 is africanamerican, we dont need them. So whats. Thats the attitude and everybody in flint knows this. Theyve been complaining about this for almost two years. As soon as the water started coming out of the taps in april 2014. The rashes, the sores, the smell everything told you something was seriously wrong here and they would take it in bottles of water and take it to lansing. There was no government in flint. Thats just a term, emergency manager. What happened was that the governor took over, fired the elected officials, the mayor and the city council. When there was no emergency at all. When there was no emergency. If anything the emergency was back around 1928 when General Motors started closing factories and moving them to third world countries. Thats when somebody should have sounded the whistle. He took them over and installed his group. Essentially flint has operated under a dictator now where the people have no said and he said to the governor i can save you 15 million if we take the water and make them drink it out of the fingerprint rivlint river. The governor said thats a good idea. There was one voice in the room that said it might be a little danger dangerous. If we just put this one chemical in the water, it will seal the lead in the pipes so that it wont leach into the water. And somebody in the room goes how much is that going to cost . And the go i goes 100 a day for three months. Thats too much money. Were here to save money. Because Governor Snyder had just cut a billion dollars of taxes for the rich in michigan, for the corporations in michigan, so hes looking for ways to cut services and costs and the ways they thought of cutting was to stop having people in flint drink from lake huron which is a glashl lake as pure as a lake could be these days, stop drinking that water and start drinking from the flint river. I dont have you have to be from flint to understand when you hear the words flint river. I get it. If i say. As soon as i heard there was a river in flint. If i said right now that the governor of new york had just instructed that the citizens of new york should drink from the canal, i dont think ut have to be here to know what that means. Not a good y had. And nobody listened. Right from the beginning he was told somethings not right here and he just turned his head the other way. It was just i went to this 100th Birthday Celebration the other night here in town and they read from his plays and all my sons, the story of a factory owner that who was making parts in World War Two for the airplanes and he sees that on crate some of the parts are cracked and he convinces himself its probably okay. Just a little crack. And then of course first a plane comes down and kills 23 soldiers and now the coverup begins. The rationalization begins. Not only they were calling for his resignation because they were being polite because rachel was there, but we want him arrested. We want the attorney general to come in and investigate and prosecute this individual. It would be one thing if hes just dumb and he didnt know, but they knew. You live in a country where you can get arrested for driving recklessly without having injured anyone, just by driving recklessly. Yes, even if wont your fault. Right. Because you werent paying attention, if you ran a 4yearold over, if your car goes over the curb, you more than likely are going to have to go to a jail. You cant say i didnt plan to do it. I didnt intend to do it. Well, thats just too bad because youve killed a 4yearold. This is far worse because they knew. In trying to save money, in trying to cut costs, while they were cutting taxes for the rich, this is whats so evil about this. This is what has got people so upset in flint. Frankly people have had it. I wrote this thing today on my website about stop sending bottles of water. Theres 100,000 thats enough to brush your teeth with today. This is theres no amount of bottles water is going to save this situation. And when people say to you what can i do to help, my honest answer is you cant help. You cant help because the irreversible brain damage has already occurred. These kids are ruined for life. Theres no medicine. Theres nothing that can turn that brain damage back. This has happened. And it was done knowingly. It was done knowing they were drinking lead filled water at least since last february theyve known that. And its just its i wish there was like we could put up like your kind program on an 800 thing or a website you could go to, but these children have been ruined. Now, we can stop further ruining other children and making it worse for them, but as of today as nbc reported not one lead pipe has been removed. Not one has been changed out for something safe. This has been going on now since hes announced it in october, since he declared his emergency three weeks ago. Not one pipe removed and replaced. Im telling you, this guy has no intention of doing anything. He has hired a Crisis Management pr firm from new york city and thats why youre starting to see him make the rounds. Not on this network. Im sure hes been told not to come here, but hes made his rounds and he is trying to pr this thing. But its not going to work. When he says that there is well 100 children have tested, like rachel said the testing for lead only works for 48 hours. You can detect some traces for 28 days. So if youre testing the kids now who drank the water for eight months, that damage has been done and its left their bloodstre bloodstream. It went into their brains and left the body. You cant test adequately for this. So any time im saying to anybody listening to this if they hear the governor make these statements, you must abide by this journist who said everything md by governments should not be believed. They should have to prove that theyre telling the truth. You start with the assumption youre being lied to sa. Maybe theyre not lying, but make them prove what theyre saying. Hopefully my goal is to have him arrested. I want him arrested and put away for what hes done. Im sorry to be so harsh. I understand your feelings. My town has gone through so much over these last 30 years with what theyve done to the factories, the wall street and now this. Everybodys home is worthless now. Who can sell their home in flint . The value of their homes, as small as it was, is now zero. Well take a break. Were going to be right back with more with Michael Moore. Jake reese, day to feel alive jake reese, day to feel alive jake reese, day to feel alive hey pal . You ready . Can you pick me up at 6 30 . Ah. boy im here im here cop too late. I was gone for five minutes ugh move it. Youre killing me. You know what, dad . 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This is the microsoft cloud. These are the hands, the hands that drive commerce, that build business across borders. These are the hands of pitney bowes, the craftsmen of commerce. These are the hands that sew the seeds of business growth, that weave the data, and find the perfect spot to thrive. These are the hands of pitney bowes, the craftsmen of commerce. You said last week over 100 children here in flint have high levels of lead in their blood. How many kids is it as we sit here today . Its about hundred and some if you go back on over the last couple of years. Youre saying theres a hundred children as of now and there could be many more. There could be more and were assuming that. Hes assuming that. Im sorry to use such harsh language, but thats a lie. Hes just lying. The doctors, the scientists, everybody who is there who has been studying this, there are 9,000 children, the people whose brains are the most appliable in terms of being damaged by lead. 9,000 have been choexposed. That 100 may have been on one day, but they didnt test all 9,000 children that day. This is just a number the pr people gave him to say. Just like he said two weeks ago when he said the National Guard hes sending in the National Guard. You know how many he sent in . Seven. There were seven National Guard showed up and he only activated seven from the city of flint. Seven guards from the city of flint to hand out water bottles. Seven who were already poisoned themselves. All 9,000 children of six and under have been exposed to this. And the adults. Were stressing children because children are much more vulnerable as they are in their fies olg. And theyre innocent. The kids have no say who made this decision. Now obviously the people of flint did not vote for this governor. He knows that. Thats why he didnt do anything in part about this, but i think the one thing that got made on rachels show there, a good point, is that there is a surplus this year of 600 million and i think the people of michigan who voted for this man twice i think that that money has to come from the state to fix the problem that the state what do you think the feeling is in flint for people who live great distances from flint, is this do you believe the state is now surging in sympathy for flint or do they think thats over there . I think the majority of people are sympathetic. The problem is nobodys done anything about this. As they said on her show, theres not a school nurse in each school in flint. Theres one nurse for a school district. Have you ever heard of such a thing. One school nurse for the entire city. You wouldnt know that if the water thing hadnt happened, but that was there before. When they said there is no Grocery Store in flint. It was that why before the crisis. How many other flints do we not know about it because the media arent covering it and if your poor and black, you have no say in this. Your voice isnt heard. And theyve been living this existence for a couple, three decades now. At the end of roger of me that movie comes out in 1989. The last line in the credit says you cannot watch this movie in the city of flint because all the threaters have closed. Theres still no movie theater. I thought that was awful there was no movie theater. There are no Grocery Stores. Theres the little food markets. Thats not just flint. I dont know if theres one in detroit. I remember this story that theres a whole half of philly didnt have if the people are poor, if they cant buy candidates and this is where the whole Campaign Finance thing comes into this too is when people dont have a say and because they cant write checks, then theyre forgotten. I know we have just a few seconds here, but this flint was forgotten. Its been forgotten for some time. Only because children got poisoned by a decision that the governor made now do we know these other things and im here to say its not just flint, michigan. This is going on across this country. How weve turned this parts of the country. One thing i learned while we filmed this is that they dont do that to their own. The one. You went looking in the film for better ideas of doing things in other countries than here. This is one of those glaring examples. Its a glaring example because in other countries throughout history people have always done things to dis on other people, their enemy or whatever, but one thing societies dont do it is do it to themselves and to their children. If you want to have a strong people, you have to be good to our people. Well let 29 Million People go without health care. Why do we tolerate this . Were the richest country on earth and that cover of Time Magazine this week with the black child on the cover, if you looked at it from a distance, you thought times doing a story on a third world country and you get close and you see its flint, michigan. None of us should be happy about this. None of us are. If they can get away with it in flint, they can get away with it anywhere. Everybody watching this who lives in the flint, michigans of this country, you know it. They know it. And its time for people to nonviolently get involved, rise up and get involved in this election year. Dont sit and take it. It is our country still. Its the hope that rachel said at the end of the show, the hope is that. Its still a democracy. So dont leave us alone there. Dont forget the flints of this country. And flint shows how pressure yugs that is. Thank you for coming. Thank you. Ect. No tickets. No accidents. That is until one of you clips a food truck, ruining your perfect record. Yeah. 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And national lets me choose any car in the aisle. Control. Its so, whats the word . Sexy. Go national. Go like a pro. Yesterday at 4 30 p. M. The fbi in oregon state and local Law Enforcement used a roadblock to stop two vehicles carrying ammon bundy and others who had taken over a near by sanctuary. One of the vehicles tried to escape and then got stuck in the snow and one man emerged from the truck, quote, brand issuing a firearm, end quote. The man was shot and killed by Law Enforcement. Ammon bundy and seven others were arrested and charged with the federal felony duties through the use of force, intimidation or threats. The man who was kald was Lavoy Finicum. His daughters confirmed his death. After an interview 22 days ago on this program he became known as tarp money because in that strange interview he was sitting under a tarp with a rifle guarding his group. Lavoy finicum then emerged as a spokesman for the bundy group. He was 55 years old. He said he left his ranch in the hands of his 17yearold daughter. He was in another standoff with federal authorities two years ago. Today only after his friend lavoy fun i couple was killed and after he was taken into custody and charged, only then did ammon bundy through his lawyer urge all of the armed protesters still at the Bird Sanctuary to leave peacefully. Then a little more than an hour ago the bundy family posted a notice from ammons wife on facebook that read, ammon would not have called for the pat ree on the to leave. We have lost a life, but we are not backing down. He didnt spill his blood in vain. Stand your ground. That post was deleted a few minutes ago. In a Youtube Video released today by the remaining protesters it is clear that the spirit of Lavoy Finicum unfortunately lives on at the Bird Sanctuary. We have been ordered to leave. That means theyre coming to kill us and they dont want you to see that. The American People better wake up and get here and fight for your country. Right now it is on. What you gonna do . What you gonna do what the malitia comes after you. If they stop you from getting here kill them. Lavoy finicum never specifically said he would kill if anyone came after him, but he came close to saying that when he spoke to us. Reporter if they come here and try to arrest you, they point a gun at you, they try to put cuffs on you, how far are you willing to take this . Dont points a gun at me. You dont point a gun at somebody unless youre going to shoot them. Dont point guns at people. So im telling them right now dont point guns at me. Reporter so youre prepared to die . Better dead than in a cell . Absolutely. Would you like to be in cell . Nobody wants to live their life in a cell. He got to know Lavoy Finicum up there will join us next. If you have high Blood Pressure like i do, many Cold Medicines may raise your Blood Pressure. Thats why theres coricidin® hbp. 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Whos with me . yay the complete balanced nutrition of great tasting ensure. With 9 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals. Ensure. Take life in think of it as a seven seat for an action packed thriller. Here is Lavoy Finicum talking about Law Enforcement in an interview on monday, the day before he was killed. Theyre doing all the things, theyre doing all the things that shows that sthey want to take action against us. They do not want to let go of this. They do not intend on losing here. Joining me tony dokoupil. Tony, you made Lavoy Finicum famous there. Your reaction to whats happened . Reporter its hard to say whether or not im surprised by this or im not surprised by this. On the one hand, Lavoy Finicum in that interview came close to saying dead or alive, youre not going to take me unless you put a bullet in me, but on the other hand he seemed quite peaceful. He was sitting in a rocking chair and i walked away from that conversation thinking there was no real danger. I was reminded of a quote there is nothing more kpil rating than being shot at without result. I thought that first night he was presenting himself as a person under threat, but clearly things had progressed and it appears that what he compliimap in that first conversation he meant. I began to think about suicide. I was a writer and didnt do any tv and i wrote a lot about suicide and theres a line in research that looks at the per verb of virtue. Thats the moment in a persons life when they begin to think that life is more valuable in death. Lavoy seemed to cross that line . If the reports about his altercations with police at the end are true, it cost him his life in the end. That is such a good point. Tony dokoupil, thank you very much for your reporting from oregon and for joining us again tonight on this. Really appreciate it. Thank you tonight on all in. Were not seeing a lot of courage here, are we . Donald trump escalates with fox news. I dont know what games roger ailes is playing but whats wrong over there. Tonight, new questions about the rncs role in the fox news debate. You know, thats not for us to second guess. And the one reporter who knows whether any of this is real or not. Plus, why republicans are beginning to blame jeb bush for the rise of trump. Why hillary is suddenly in favor of another debate. And bernie is suddenly not. And tonight, steve kornacki