Breath every nightfall. Governor jay nixon ordered the National Guard to the city the guards mission here will be limited in scope their presence can escalate the situation even further. They keep giving all this force. We dont need that. Tensions are rising because of another night of violence. Were wellequipped to handle this mission. What people are calling disorder is really people crying out. There were demonstrators who were out in faceoffs with police. Feels like were going back to the 60s. Seek to heal rather than to wound each other. They want to see cripple natural charges against this officer wilson. The wheels of justice are flow. Prooipt autopsy performed on Michael Brown showed Michael Brown was shot at least six times, including twice in the head. Extremely disturbing to me. The attorney general himself will be traveling to ferguson on wednesday. Theres not a whole lot of faith in how this is being handled. Ive never seen a situation more poorly handled. The grieving brown family pleads for justice. Arrest this man and make him accountable for his actions. The trust has been broken. Why is officer will wilson still walking free . Th more violence, theyre going to need the National Guard. There is no curfew tonight but the National Guard has moved into place there and president obama is not so sure that thats such a great idea. This was a stateactivated National Guard, so its under the charge of the governor. This is not something that we initiated at the federal level. I spoke to jay nixon about this, expressed an interest in making sure that if, in fact, a National Guard is used it is used in a limited and appropriate way. Ill be watching over the next several days to assess whether in fact its helping rather than hindering progress in ferguson. President obama had more to say today about the situation in ferguson. Our Constitutional Rights to speak freely, to assemble, and to report in the press must be visible lantly safeguarded. Especially in moments like these. Theres no excuse for Excessive Force by police or any action that denies people the right too protest peacefully. Ours is a nation of laws. For the citizens who live under them and for the citizens who enforce them. Right now, what we have to do is to make sure that the cause of justice and Fair Administration of the law is being brought to bear in ferguson. In order to do that, weve got to make sure that we are able to distinguish between Peaceful Protesters who may have some legitimate grievances and may be longstanding grievances, and those who are using this tragic death as an excuse to engage in criminal behavior and tossing molotov cocktails or looting stores. And that is a small minority of folks and may not even be residents of ferguson. But they are damaging the cause. Theyre not advancing it. Joining me from ferguson, tremaine lee, National Reporter for msnbc. Com. Tremaine, we just heard from captain johnson. We got video of him saying, so far, so good tonight in ferguson. Its almost eerie how quiet it is compared to the nights before. By this time yesterday, there were already police mobilizing. Protesters were already taking their positions. Now, because theres a no standing order, so anyone that stops even for a moment is told to keep moving. So the group is actually just marching up and around the block and all the way down the street. You hear now, there are deep lulls. Then sometimes you realize how thick the crowd still is. They come by chanting. As i dont know if theyre growing but its a thick crowd. Again, theres nothing right now to indicate that any fireworks are on the way. Were also joined now by chad garrison, the editor in chief of the riverfront tyimes. Chad, it seems from just looking at the way these decisions have been made in sequence that somebody there decided the curfew wasnt working. Yeah, well you know, this is as you know unprecedented in st. Louis. And i think that theyre somewhat grasping at straws looking for some way to kind of quell the unrest. And, you know, perhaps this keep moving initiative today will do that. Seems to be bearing out at least so far. Lets listen to more about what president obama had to say about this today. I have to be very careful about not prejudging these events before investigations are completed. Because although these are issues of local jurisdiction, the doj works for me when theyre conducting an investigation, ive got to make sure that i dont look like im putting my thumb on the scales one way or the other. Tremaine lee, have you gotten any sense from people in the street today what their reaction to president obamas comments today has been . Yeah, over the course of the week when the president and then attorney general eric holder weighed in, people definitely appreciated. One of the things they want, there are a few, but one is to be heard. To be heard at the highest levels of government of the United States means something. And i think there is extraordinary pressure. These are issues that black people in this Community Care deeply about. And they want their black president to care deeply about their feelings. So people appreciate it. But then people are also asking, what next . I talked to one person who commented on the calm and the no standing rule and how everyones so in order. Hes saying, basically, i feel like ive been coopted. Protest when is youre protesting authority. Here theyre doing exactly what authority wants. Also i think some people may be tired of the gassings and violence. Back to your point, people appreciate it but they want answers. They want transparency. Ultimately they want an arrest. Chad garrison, what is your sense of the reaction in the larger st. Louis community outside of ferguson and areas nearby . This is the remains the most talked about story, obviously it seems like i dont have a nationwide perspective because im here in st. Louis, but this is all that everyones talking about. You know, i think to tremaines point earlier, i think that at this point people want really to see leadership from barack obama and maybe it is actually coming here to st. Louis. But people want this resolved. This is the ninth night. And hopefully thats going to happen but it just doesnt seem like theres an end in sight. Tremaine lee, chris hayes has been making a great point that the big show of force after some sort of event by some people who want to kind of provoke that show of force, they are rewarding, in effect, the people in that who find their bay into that crowd to do something specifically provocative to the police. So obviously a very small number of people who have been doing that. But they seem to want to provoke that big militaristic response. And what chris hayes keeps wondering about, is there going to be a way to break that cycle . That very well could be. But the police presence, even when its not so highly militarized, sparks confrontation. Because the mood changes. People are chanting and being heard, then you have a Police Officer barking orders at you. You have police cars running up on the side of the roadblocking the road. There are factions. I was speaking with malik sabaz, black lawyers for justice, doing an impressive job of keeping folks in line and keeping orderly, who kept saying theyre agent provocateurs, were not going to let them sabotage what theyre trying to do here, and tonight this peace showed people you can come and march peacefully in the name of Michael Brown. So there is this belief there are people that are part of this joining in the crowd just to be provocative, just to cause trouble, and frankly seems like the leadership, theyre tired of that action because its overshadowing what they care deeply about, justice for Michael Brown and a brighter light on what they see as a long line of Police Brutality and police harassment. Tremaine lee, well come back to you if theres any more developments on the street there. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. Chad garrison of the riverfront times, thank you for joining us tonight. Youre looking at protests occurring on west flores dent avenue. If you go north youlling into the town of dellwood. Joining me is is dellwood mayor reggie jones. Mayor jones, what is your reaction to the National Guard moving into this neighborhood . Well, this time lawrence, i think that we needed some support. Last night the Police Officers pushed a line further up west flores dent, which left the dellwoodside unprotected, we didnt have enough police fourth on that end. At this point to protect my residents and my businesses i have to be in favor of anything thats going to allow us to have more protection. We had over eight businesses looted as of last night. So my residents are getting very scared that this is coming closer and closer to us. Is im in favor of some any kind of heightened security for my community. Talk to us about the politics of these two communities, yours versus ferguson, and how ferguson can be a majority Africanamerican Community and yet not see that represented in their elected officials. Well, dellwood was the same way for many years. We also had a police force that had some issues as well. But we found individuals to run for the council. We found individuals like myself to run for mayor. So that we can get inside the government and make the necessary changes we needed to make. And just changes that will be fair to the people. We have a diverse community. Its very important that you have a diverse city as far as your Police Department, your city hall staff, your department heads. People want to see people that look like them. Thats just a fact. Even dellwood is 80 africanamerican, 20 caucasian. The 20 wants to see individuals that look like them, as well as the 80 . So weve worked hard to make sure that our city has diversity. We make sure our Police Department is connected to the residents of dellwood. We have whats called a Citizens Academy for the residents there, a way for the residents to get a better relationship with our officers. Our Police Department sponsors many events for our youth. So you have to do that kind of work on the front end so when you have an incident like this it wont be as bad for your city. And what is your reaction to the political response that youve heard from washington . Youve heard the president speak about this now a number of times. Im not talking now about the specific action hes ordered at the Justice Department. Were going to talk about that later in the show. But his overall the president s overall response to whats going on in your area there. I think the president has his finger on the pulse. Hes a midwest guy. He understands the makeup of whats going on here in this area. And its not just about ferguson. There are several communities in this area that have the makeup that ferguson has where you have majority africanamerican communities but not africanamericans in leadership. And i only fault the residents for not voting. You cant blame a councilman who wants to be there, and he gets enough votes to get him on the council. But the council does have council and mayor does then have responsibility to make sure that the city is diverse. So that all residents can be heard and all residents feel like theyre part of whats going on in the city. Mayor reggie jones of dellwood next door to ferguson, missouri, thank you very much for joining us tonight. Coming up, todays preliminary autopsy report. Sean parcells, the man who assisted at that autopsy of Michael Browns body, will join me next. Vo this is the summer. The summer that summers from here on will be compared to. So get out there, and get the best price guaranteed. Find it for less and well match it and give you 50 toward your next trip. Expedia. Find yours. Caman thanks, captain obvious. Wouldnt stay here tonight. Captain obvious id get a deal for tonight with deals for tonight from hotels. Com. And you might want to get that pipe fixed. The man who assisted at the autopsy commissioned by Michael Browns family will join me to discuss the findings of that autopsy. And just how they match up or dont match up with witnesses testimony so far, thats next. Twelve brands. 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However, understand too that while the shot could have come from the back, because if im standing here walking along and get shot from that direction, you see i pull my arm up, its in that same general area. The arm is a very mobile part of your body. It also could have occurred when he was putting his hands up. So i put my hands up and you see where that wound is at. It could have happened if he put his arms across in a defensive manner. Joining me now is Shawn Parcells, the pathologist assistant who worked with dr. Michael baden on the autopsy whose preliminary results were revealed today. Shawn parcells, there are a lot of people out there tonight saying, okay, these preliminary findings are out and we now have conclusive proof that he was not shot from behind, that he was that Michael Brown was facing the officer for every one of the shoots fired. What would you say to that . Our preliminary results agree with that, other than as i pointed out at the press conference, this shot to the right forearm could have come from the back as hes walking away. But it also could have come from the front direction if hes put his hands up, put his hands up in a defensive position, or even if hes running at the officer, you can still have that part of your arm exposed. And thats why its very important that we understand the events that occurred and be able to piece those together and look at further evidence, which at this time dr. Baden and i have not been able to do. But as you say, the possibility that that arm was shot from behind is still there, and so there is the possibility your findings dont rule out in any way that shots were fired at him from behind as he was running away . Correct. At this time, we know for a fact that he was not shot in his back. When i say his back, i mean his back. But a shot from behind hitting the arm at that angle could have happened. At this point in time, we cant rule we cannot rule that out. I want you to listen to what Tiffany Mitchell said, a witness to these events, said on this program. Let listen to this. As i come around the corner, i hear tires squeaking. As i get closer i see michael and the officer wrestling through the window. Michael was pushing, trying to get away from the officer. The officers trying to pull him in. As i see this i pull out my phone because it just didnt look right. You never see an officer and someone just wrestling through the window. So as i pull out my phone the first shot was fired through the window. And i just like tried to get out of the way. It pulled into the parking lot right beside where the cop car was and thats when michael kind of broke away and started running down the street. The officer gets out of his vehicle and he pursues him. As hes following him hes shooting at him. And michaels body jerks as if he was hit. Then he turns around, he put his hands up. The officer continued to walk up on him and shoot him until he goes all the way down to the ground. Is there anything in your preliminary findings that contradict anything that Tiffany Mitchell said . No. Actually, not at all. Her statement could be collaborated with what dr. Baden and i found, given that shot to the arm could have come from the back. I will add that dr. Baden and i did talk about that and one thing that we want to be very careful is that Michael Brown could have jerked for two reasons. One, he could have jerked because he was hit there. Or two, he could have jerked because any time any of us, im sure, would hear a gun go off unexpectedly, we kind of would jump. Again, we cant rule out that the shot came from the back. But we also cant rule out the shot came from the front. Without being able to look at further evidence which at this point in time we have not been able to do. And the other thing that you dont know, none of us know, is exactly how many shots were fired. Apparently the weapon that was probably used could fire about a dozen shots. We do know that one of the shots actually went into someones house and that bullet had to be recovered by police in at least one house. So it may be that as with many shootings by police, most of the bullets missed. And there could have that kind of reaction youre talking about, about he hears a shot fired and he physically reacts to hearing a shot fired, that could have happened many times . It could have, yes. One thing i want to stress that really wasnt stressed at the press conference is that theres really two parts to an autopsy. You have the physical autopsy of the body. Then you literally have the autopsy of the crime scene. And its very important that we find out how the crime scene is put back together. What happened in the car . What processing did they do in the car . If a gunshot did go off in the car, what direction is that bullet traveling . The clothing mr. Brown was wearing, we need to be able to look at that. We also feed to know what happened after the event that occurred in the car to the point to where mr. Brown collapsed on the ground and what is the conference between the car and where he collapsed on the ground . Those are all key elements to really be able to take that information, bring it back to what dr. Baden and i were able to do at the second autopsy, and really start piecing things together. We may not be able to ever answer every single question, but we definitely can answer more questions than what we could today. I think there are some preliminary indications that there was about 35 feet between the patrol car and where the bead was found. Thats quite a distance to run for Michael Brown, especially since he apparently already has one pull let in hbullet in him. I want to talk about that one shot, according to witnesses the first shot went off very, very close to the car, with Michael Brown touching the car. According to the police story i, Michael Brown may have been reaching into the car. But according to Tiffany Mitchell, his hands were on the car. Could you determine which of the shots, the wounds you saw, was the first one that was inflicted on him . Unfortunately, that no we cannot. Especially because we dont have the clothing. The clothing is critical because if there was a closerange shot you would have evidence of gunshot powder and residue that would have been filtered out by the clothing and thus when you look at it on the skin you may not see that evidence, thus it looks like its a distance wound. We dont have that information. But even if we can confirm that one of the shots that entered his body has gunshot residue over that clothing area, we still cant confirm without other pieces of the investigation whether that was the first or the second shot or Something Like that. But let me stay on this first shot. If with the clothing and with all of the assembled evidence there is no gunshot residue anywhere on his body or on the clothing, wouldnt that indicate that the first shot and all the shots were fired from at least a distance of about 24 inches . Correct. Are you talking about the shots that actually hit his body, correct . Yes. Any shots that hit his body. If when the totality of the evidence is assembled, including ballistics evidence and including the clothing evidence, if we dont find the kind of evidence that would be on the clothing to indicate a proximity of firing, then we would be left with an evidence package that would seem to indicate all of the shots were fired from about two feet away or more. Correct. And we will not be able to judge the distance we cant say it was 2 1 2 feet, because a shot at 2 1 2 feeds going to look like a shot at 3 1 2 feet. Right. And lets get to the shot that or shots that you believe were the fatal shots. Describe those shots. Okay. There was two shots to the head. One entered right above the right eyebrow. It came out at the right eyebrow. It actually reenters around the right eye. It tunnels under the skin and exits here at the jawline. And then dr. Baden and i believe that the that same bullet reenters the body right here at the right shoulder. There is another shot to the could you just stop on that shot, please . So the angle of the head in relation to the bullet, the bullet trajectory, in order for that passage to occur through the body, could you show us with your head what the angle of the head would have to be as the bullet addressed it . Yes. The head would have to be bent over. So it would have to be like this. And the bullet is coming this direction and hits the head from the top down. And this is someone whos 63 . Correct. Yeah, he was a big kid. Hed have to be very far bent over, okay. And then the so something 1 2 put him would have put him in that feels almost like a 90degree bend for him to get down to that spot where that could be hit. A 90degree bend f down to that spot where that could be hit. Lmost like a 90der him to get down to that spot where that could be hit. Like a o get down to that spot where that could be hit. The second bullet to the head was the very top or the apex. And it entered right at the very top of the head. And it also was going at a downward angle. And so his head would actually have to be lower, bent lower for that to have happened . Correct. Correct, yes. And it would so would it be logical then i know we dont have all the evidence to make this a fact. It is entirely possible that the one that hit lower on the forehead was the first one in that sequence of two, that was the first one, then as the head lowered some more there was one that was followed fairly instantly to hit right on the top of the head . Correct. Thats very possible. Shawn parcells, could you stay with sinus id love to be able to come back and just do a little bit more with you. Sure, that would be fine. Thank you very much. Well be right back with mere with Shawn Parcells who assisted in that autopsy, the preliminary report of which was revealed today. Funtil to keep growing, theys hneeded a new factory, but where . Fortunately, they get financing from ge capital. Were part of ge, a company thats built hundreds of factories. So we can bring in experts to help them evaluate costs, incentives, and zoning to make a decision that would make their founder proud. If you just need a loan, just call a bank. At ge capital, were builders. And what we know, can help you grow. [ male announcer ] during the cadillac summers best event, lease this 2014 ats for around 299 a month. Hurry in this exceptional offer ends soon. Im dave and i have copd. Hurry in this exceptional offer ends soon. Im kate and i have copd, but i dont want my breathing problems to get in the way my volunteering. Thats why i asked my doctor about breo. Oncedaily breo ellipta helps increase airflow from the lungs for a full 24 hours. And breo helps reduce symptom flareups that last several days and require oral steroids, antibiotics, or hospital stay. Breo is not for asthma. Breo contains a type of medicine that increases risk of death in people with asthma. 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It sounds in many ways people are making light of these wounds saying, they wouldnt stop a big guy. Isnt it true that any one of these wounds, a given individual would fall to the ground both in shock and in pain from just getting any one of those wounds . In my opinion, the arm wounds, depending on the circumstances, the physiological state of the person, adrenaline, any drugs in their system, anything like that, would determine whether or not they would continue to charge. The wounds to the arm, while they are not fatal, i know there have been case studies done on people who have had similar type wounds and reported not ever knowing they were shot until someone said, hey, youre bleeding, somethings going on. Now, the gunshots to the head would have definitely stopped him. Okay, were now joined by lisa bloom, nbc legal analyst, jim cavenaugh, nbc Law Enforcement analyst and retired atf special agent in charge. Shawn, they body have questions for you. Id like to start with jim cavenaugh, do you have a question for Shawn Parcells on the autopsy . Just wanted to ask of the arm wounds, where one you said on the center of the forearm could have been from behind if he was running, can you say if theres any others that could have been from behind, like the one on the palm of his hand, could that also have been from behind, and can you maybe say that the other higher ones could only have been from the front . Is there any possible way to break that down . Sure, sure. The one to the upper arm right here is definitely from the front because it goes in and it actually exits, the exit wound is back here in the back part of the armpit. The graze wound right here, the graze wound on this portion and the graze wound here, could have happened either from the front or from the back. And again, we dont have all the evidence put together to really be able to determine that. And we may not be able to determine that. Quickly, lawrence, if i can, just one more. The wound above the right nipple, can you determine where that came from . Was that a fragment or was that a bullet particle that continued through thats just above the right nipple . Dr. Baden and i believe that that is a possible reentry wound. We dont know which reentry wound on the arm it could have come from. Thats why we really want to be able to collaborate our findings with the first autopsy to say for sure whether or not that is a reentry wound or if its a wound all by itself. Thats why this whole time weve been saying he was shot these s at least six times. It could have been a reentry wound thank you. Sorry. Mr. Parcells, looking carefully at this diagram, i know its the standard autopsy diagram. But in fact, as i look at it, it occurs to me human beings dont naturally stand in this position with their palms facing forward. In fact, human beings tend to stand with their paups facing one another, fingers down. When someones running, their forearm tends to move back as people naturally pump their arms when theyre running. It strikes me that the forearm wound seems most likely to be a shot from behind. Do you agree with that . I would agree with that on the condition tent tent to say consistent with coming from behind. But at the same time those same wounds, i got my arms up and im running like this back this way that graze wound is going in that same direction. However, just as youre saying, if i move that, what youre saying im running, my arms going back, that graze wound is in that same trajectory. See how it stays the same . Right. So its coming from the front, or its coming from the back, but it produces the same injury. Same thing with the forearm gunshot wound. One thing, lawrence that we know, human beings do not stand in that position, right . In that diagram. If you look at anyone on the street today or tomorrow, you wont see anyone standing with their poapst facing forward. Shawn parcells, this is the second autopsy performed on this body. There will be a third. The Justice Department of the federal governments going to do their third. What condition is the body in now for a third autopsy . There are some experts out there today who have been saying theres a certain amount of evidentiary degradation as you move through a series of autopsies because if each one of you has to adjust the body in various ways as youre doing your work. Thats very true. The best way to do a second autopsy is as soon as possible after the first autopsy is done. I know now that the body is embalmed. Embalming can also mess with the injuries because the embalmers oftentimes will put certain cosmetics and rebuilding like cosmetic wax to cover up the wounds which can also mess with it. And as you stated, the more people that mess with these wounds because when we look at these wounds we actually use a probe. And we probe the wound to see the trajectory and the track. Sometimes if you continue to probe it you can actually mess with that trajectory and make it into something that its not. And mr. Parcells, the when were you called in to this case . I got a phone call from ben crump and anthony gray, i believe it was last wednesday, asking if i would come in to help dr. Baden and work on the case with him to give a forensic analysis on the gunshot wounds, primarily to answer questions for the family. This report detoday was your preliminary report. When will you be releasing a larger or final report . Well, i talked with my colleague, dr. Baden, today. We really need to be able to view the first autopsy report and all subsequent materials with that. That would be the tox report, the xrays their photographs that they took, proverbally also talk with the pathologist that did that autopsy, look at the clothing mr. Brown had on. Then also look at the witness statements. When i say witness statements i mean the officers statements, not the statement that the friend is giving but the actual officers statement. And also look at credible witnesses that the legal teams will be able to filter through and find credible witnesses and look at those. And the reconstruction of the crime scene. And put all that together, then we can issue a very detailed final report. And very quickly, what would a ballasticiann able too add to the evidence youve seen so far . How would a ballistics expert be able to help piece together the evidence weve seen so far . Well, keep in mind a ballistics expert is different from what we do. A ballistics expert is going to tell you how a gun works. If bullets are recovered, they can test fire the weapon and say that the bullet matches up with that particular weapon. And thats the primary role of a ballistics effort. Then also to be able to say if the shell casings came from an officers weapons. So their input, for example, if we find out there are shell casings that didnt come from the officers weapons im not saying that happened, but if that was to come out wed obviously have a major problem. But i think the ballistics is going to just really confirm that it was the officers weapon that fired these and past that theres not much more that they can offer because our job is to understand the trajectories of these Bullet Wounds to the body, and they dont generally do that. Jim cavenaugh, before a break, can the ballistics expert help us with the distance the bullet traveled before it gets to the body . No. Really only the medical examiner can tell you that through the stippling and tattooing, like shawn said. The tshirt may tell that fact. When a close shot was, like if it was in the car. No they cant get a distance. They may get trajectory of a shot that missed and went into the building and rely on the medical examiner for inside the body. Shawn parcells, thank you very how much for joining us tonight. I know how pressed you are for time today especially. Really appreciate it. Lisa bloom and jim cavenaugh, thank you for joining me. Well be right back. Were going to go to ferguson for the latest of whats going on there. vo ours is a world of passengers. The redeyes. daughter im really tired. vo the transfers. Well, thats kid number three. vo the copilots. All sitting. Trusting. Waiting. For a safe arrival. Introducing the allnew subaru legacy. Designed to help the driver in you. Care for the passenger in them. The subaru legacy. Its not just a sedan. Its a subaru. And cialis for daily use helps you be Ready Anytime the moment is right. Cialis is also the only daily ed tablet approved to treat symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently. Tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. 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What is the situation where you are, amanda . You know, the tone here is a stark contrast from the violence and chaos that we saw just around this time last night. We had religious leaders, ministers from the communities around the area, as well as into illinois, came and they wanted to set a good example for the younger generations, they said. They joined arms and marched down the street singing we shall overcome. I spoke with one of them afterward and he said that theres just this generation gap that they hope they can lead by example and really bring all of the mainline protests in line here and not let the crowds become so rowdy. We shall see if this will be sustained the rest of the evening. There have been minor flareups here and there but so far everything has been largely peaceful. Okay, let us know whats going on, well come back to you if anything develops. Thanks very much for joining us tonight. Coming up, what bill oreilly said about someone who appeared on this program last week. [ intercom ] drivers, to your marks. Go [ male announcer ] its chaos out there. But the mclass sees in your blind spot. Pulls you back into your lane. Even brakes all by itself. Its almost like it couldnt crash. Even if it tried. The 2015 mclass. See your authorized dealer for exceptional offers could help your business didavoid hours of delaynd test caused by slow internet from the phone company . Thats enough time to record a memo. Idea for sales giveaway. Return a call. Sign a contract. Pick a tie. Take a break with mr. Duck. Practice up for the business trip. Fly to florida. Win an award. Close a deal. Hire an intern. And still have time to spare. Go to comcastbusiness. Com checkyourspeed if we cant offer faster speeds or save you money well give you 150. Comcast business. Built for business. Youre looking at live images from ferguson at this moment. We will come back to that as the situation develops there. Were going to take a break. The 1 prescribed acid blocking brand, comes without a prescription for frequent heartburn. Get complete protection. Nexium level protection™ this is bill. His doubleheader day at the park starts with back pain. And a choice. Take 4 advil in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. Peanuts peanuts crowd cheers funtil to keep growing, theys hneeded a new factory, but where . Fortunately, they get financing from ge capital. Were part of ge, a company thats built hundreds of factories. So we can bring in experts to help them evaluate costs, incentives, and zoning to make a decision that would make their founder proud. If you just need a loan, just call a bank. At ge capital, were builders. And what we know, can help you grow. Bill oreillys on vacation this week but he still found time to call in to his own show and talk about someone who appeared on this program last week and call her a liar. On msnbc, they put on a woman who said that Michael Brown was shot in the back. All right . That is a lie. We now know that because of the autopsy. Was it challenged by msnbc . No, it was not. It was put out there as fact. A little misquoting there, bill. This is what Tiffany Mitchell actually said here. He was running away from him. And could you tell his body jerked as if he was hit, thats whenever he turned around and faced the officer. And heres how she said it the second time i asked her about it. She was following him, hes shooting at him, and michaels body jerks as if he was hit. Then he turns around, put his hands up, and the officer continued to walk up on him and shoot him until he geese all the way down to the ground. His body jerked like he was hit. Then the second time, she says, his body jerks as if hes hit. And you already heard Shawn Parcells, who worked on the autopsy, say that everything Tiffany Mitchell said is absolutely consistent with their findings. Bill oreilly had to lie about what she said in order to be so outraged about it. Bill oreilly saying, she said he was shot in the back. She did not offer an opinion as to whether he was shot in the back or not. But thats the kind of stuff that is out there among people who are desperate to find something to say contrary to what these witnesses are saying. Joining me now, former new york city Police Officer eugene odonnell, professor of law and Police Studies at John Jay College of criminal justice. Eugene, this is very common, that people think that they have heard a witness Say Something that the witness did not actually presume to say. And then they think theyve come across some evidence that contradicts that, therefore, the witness is a liar. This is a very common amateur reaction to the way evidence is gathered in these kinds of cases, isnt it . Yeah, liar is a strong word. If youve been in an vest gave function, you realize a lot of people say things that are not necessarily accurate. Its a far stretch from saying something that you believe or that you misperceived and actually calling somebody a liar, which really is saying something intending to deceive somebody. So anybodys been involved in investigations know in the heat of these kinds of events, people misperceive or perceive differently. Its not unusual for five honest people to give five different accounts. That does not make them liars. I mean, there are plenty of people there in ferguson who have been saying, with absolute confidence prior to today, that he was shot in the back. But Tiffany Mitchell, this witness, is not one of those people. She simply said what she observed which is his body jerked like he was hit. She wasnt saying he definitely was hit. And in the back. She never even uses the word back. And we now hear see from the first report from the autopsy that, yeah, there were shots that could have been fired that could have hit him from behind as he was moving. Well, if youre proLaw Enforcement, its really important to say, we should be encouraging people to come forward that have information and not trying to assassinate them out of the gate. People see things, i mean, people know that theres campaigns like stop snitching. We have to create an atmosphere in which people of good faith sometimes people dont have good faith, sometimes people have malicious reasons. We dont want to close the door to people and say, unless you can absolutely with certainty substantiate what youre saying, youre not welcome in this police station. We need to keep the door open, recognize sorry to interrupt, we have to go to ferguson. Were joined by aaron dellmore, msnbc producer. He is there where youre seeing these images come from. Aaron, whats going on . At the corner of ferguson avenue and west fluorescent avenue near mcdonalds. There are a number of cops lined up. Theyre standing arm to arm. They have batons. They have their guns. There are Armored Vehicles behind them. All of the sirens are going off. Facing off against them, you can see this now, some with their hands up, some on their knees. There are a number of residents here, including media and protesters in the side in an effort to solve the violence here. These Police Forces have amassed. They look ready to come in. The journalists put their gas masks on. Much of the crowd has dispersed. How many people would you say are taking that position there . Well, i would say that there are about 200 left in the street. There are a number to the outside of fluorescent avenue. There look to be more cops you know their staging area is less than a mile up the road. Theyre prepared. Theyve all had their cars there. Thats where they have been patiently waiting. Just an hour ago, it was a peaceful protest. The number of people just moving in a circle around west fluorescent avenue. Erin, i think were getting your images now. If the police decide to break it up on the grounds these protesters are no longer moving, and the rule is you have to keep moving. They told people to move back, move back. This is after the police already moved them back once. Theyre wearing their gas masks now, have their helmets and virussors on, wearing their vests. They have batons out, shields up. The vehicles have sirens on. The vehicle operators are wearing helmets and shields. Were picking up this very clearly on your video now. We see those images clearly. Erin, how long ago did this get tense there . I would say it got tense about five or six minutes ago. People were