Transcripts For MSNBCW The Last Word With Lawrence ODonnell 20140508

Governors and legislators in 21 states are blocking Medicaid Expansion. Republicans just arent on the right side of American People. Blocking basic health care, Health Insurance. Every governor has got two critical decisions. Whether to accept federal money to expand medicaid. Do we set up these exchanges and expand medicaid . 8 Million People signed is up. Obamacare is not working. 4. 8 Million People enrolled through medicaid. Medicaid is a failed program. I dont think it makes sense to do those. How much longer can republicans deny that this law is working . Blocking the implementation of obamacare will cost lives. Were talking about roughly 5 million americans in these specific states that could actually benefit. Now, the citizens of the state who turned down that federal money feel about that . Obamacare is going to save and is right now saving peoples lives. I bet they feel good. Expand expand medicaid medicaid good evening. Im ari melber in for Lawrence Odonnell. It has been four years since president obama signed the Affordable Care act and the law drives a ton of political disputes in washington, as we know, from those 50 repeal votes count let attempts to people in d. C. Say, hey, thats good for democrats. And vice versa, when sfst faltering, like problems with healthcare. Gov. But in the real world, it affects real peoples lives. The mortality rate dropped three points. That would mean 17,000 fewer deaths a year. According to a New York Times analysis. And now, theres real news about efforts to expand the acas Health Care Coverage in the real world. In missouri, hundreds of protesters and clergy marched on the statehouse and shut it down. They were taking the case for health care, the moral case, directly to their representatives through protests and civil disobedience. This was not about backing the aca to help obama or to hurt republicans or any of the bickering that we so often here from d. C. This was about unlocking the funds and the Health Care Coverage that would otherwise be available to some of the poorest residents of missouri. Do justice do justice have mercy have mercy be fair be fair bring healthcare bring healthcare zb to the poorest to the poorest of the poor of the poor bring dignity pand medicaid. Expand medicaid those protesters you see there delayed the Senate Session for about an hour. The Capitol Police cleared the gallery and arrested 23 clergy members. They were later released. Missouris one of the 24 states that are still declining the acas federal support for expanding medicaid coverage. The health care is for people who dont make enough to buy insurance on the market. For individuals, that means peep who make about 309 a week. Its estimated that roughly 300,000 more missourieans would obtain the health care they need if the state did decide to expand medicaid. The democratic governor of missouri supports taking that expansion, but hes faced nothing but resistance from the republicancontrolled legislature. And now as were reporting, that resistance is facing its own resistance. Former governor howard dean will join us in a moment to talk about all of this, but first, we have two of the missouri protesters themselves, reverend john bennett and reverend Vernon Howard who were both arrested and released after yesterdays protests. Welcome to you both. Reverend bennett, why dont i start with you . How did you get involved in this . What did you do . Trying to witness to my face, were trying to bring dignity to the center of public life in missouri. We got involved because we know that every week, 15 people in missouri die for want of health coverage. And if Medicaid Expansion is not passed in this session, 750 additional people, brothers and sisters, children and grandchild, will die. We consider that morally offensive, and we protest them for that reason. Because it is morally offensive. Reverend, dr. Reverend howard, why was it worth it to you to get arrested for this cause . Well, again, as reverend bennett has stated, our attempt is to bring dignity and justice to the center of public life and public policy. And for now, about 18 months or so, the Missouri Senate has had opportunity to expand medicaid and save the lives of citizens of the state of missouri. We have, over that course of period, have pleaded and negotiated and prayed and sang and visited with legislators and wrote letters and emails and now with just a few days left before the end of this legislative session, the lives literally of 750 souls hang in the balance. And so for us, getting arrested was worth it when it comes to comparing that to the loss of a life in the state of missouri. Well, i hear you on that, and putting it in the moral terms and the practical terms. Let me play for you what paul ryan has been saying on this score, another side of the debate. Take a listen. Obamacare is clearly part of the problem. It adds trillions of dollars in Government Spending and it has made things worse for our economy and for working families. By 2017, cbo projects that people will be working fewer hours precisely because of the incentives created in this law. Between 2017 and 2024, overall Labor Compensation will also decline. And these changes, they disproportionately affect lowwage workers. Translation . Washington is making the poverty trap much worse. Reverend howard, your response . I think in terms of the state of missouri, what we are seeing is that the citizens in missouri are dying younger and living sicker. For the state of missouri, if you make more than approximately 4,200 per year, in this state, it is believed that you can afford paying for your own health care. This is insensitive, it is unjust, and it does not bring dignity and justice to the lives of poor people. Not only africanamericans in the urban core, but our white rural brothers and sisters. And our people of faith and peep who perhaps dont embrace a faith. New orleans, they deserve dignity to be brought to their lives in columbia, springfield, and all over the state. Reverend bennett, speak to the coalition here and the timing. As i mentioned this our report, the aca has been around a long time. Many of these states are having their own local politics. What is different now that you think you can make change here . Well, first of all, we have been added as a group of clergy for four years and our movement has continued to grow. We have become center on a concern about the crisis in medicaid funding and that is what has brought us together in order that we can bring health and wholeness to hundreds of people in missouri that now face the prospect of death. Its that simple and that profound. Reverend john bennett and reverend Vernon Howard, thank you both for joining us tonight and telling us about your efforts. Were now going to turn to doctor and former governor, howard dean. Welcome, governor. Tell us your thoughts about these kind of efforts, that are so crucial when the aca really is a statelevel debate in so many of these places. Well, first of all, its just shocking how much of a failed party the republican paris. What they are doing is simply, in an attempt to bolster their own political fortunes, simply refusing money that their taxpayers have already paid for, coming back into the state. Theres just no other than just plain mean spiritedness, there is no reason to refuse this medicaid money. The pax paris of missouri are already paying for it. Theyre just not seeing any benefit, because of the stubbornness of the far rightwing controlled legislature. I also dont think paul ryan was being truthful about the socalled poverty trap. It has been shown again and again and again, that if you raise people out of poverty, you cant do it simply by ragising minimum wage, you have to do it by creating a social safety net. And i know something about this, because we use medicaid for every child in our state, to make every child in our state available for health care 20 years ago. Theyre not all on medicaid, but all the ones, up into the middle class, are able to have Health Insurance. So what these republicans are doing, i think, is repulsive, really. Truly, its repulsive. Sacrificing the people who elected them for their own political future. Right, i think you put it well. And it is that stark. The president spoke about this and spoke about it in terms of spite, which is similar to the mean spiritedness that youre discussing tonight. Lets take a listen to that. States that have chosen to the no expand medicaid for no other reason than political spite. Youve got 5 Million People that could be having Health Insurance right now, at no cost to these states. Zero cost to these states, other than ideological reasons, they have chosen not to provide Health Insurance for their citizens. Thats wrong. It should stop. Those folks should be able to get Health Insurance like everybody else. Thats the tough message from washington on down. Speak to us about the power of the activism that were reporting on tonight. Heres one of the interesting things about this. There are republican governors who have accepted medicaid. John kasich, rick snyder in michigan. Theyre not all these meanspirited, craven people like bobby jindal and these rightwingers. There are republicans who do know how to look at a balance sheet. We can have different philoso y philosophies about using medicaid. But what you cant have is sacrificing the people who pay your salary simply to gain political advantage. Thats what these 21 at a times or the republicans in these 21 states are doing. These guys in missouri are doing something thats great and its modeled after, i think, the moral mondays in North Carolina, where you have an extreme far right legislature, one of whom, the speaker of whom, the leader of whom just won the senate primary. So you have a very farright legislature. The people in North Carolina North Carolina is not an extremist state. I think theyre disgusted by their own legislature, and i think in missouri, youre going to see this as well. And the reason these two preachers are important is because they represent a religious coalition of people across color barriers and all other kinds of barriers who are standing up for what christianity is really about, which is doing something about the poor. Jesus talked about the poor a lot more than he ever talked about all those things that these rightwingers are talking about. And these two men deserve, i think, a tremendous amount of respect, because theyre living their religious principles. And certainly, the legislature in missouri doesnt appear to have any principles whatsoever. Former governor and doctor, howard dean, appreciate your perspective tonight. Thank you. Coming up, protesters in albuquerque are gearing up for a showdown over Police Officers that were found too quick to use deadly force by the justice department. Another resident is dead at the hands of local police. And new violence erupts as the u. S. Prepares for that Urgent Mission in nigeria to find those hundreds of missing schoolgirls weve been reporting on. Tonight, mulally yousef, the teen that was shot, speaks out on this issue. And a disagreement breaks out over the one topic that had at one united them all, benghazi, of course. Capital to make it happen . 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You may remember, as Lawrence Odonnell reported, from the beginning of this story, the irs scandal isnt much of a scandal, because the irs actually scrutinized both liberal and Tea Party Groups when determining whether they should get tax exempt status. And the law in question says the groups must be, quote, exclusively engaged in social welfare. The irs decided in 1959 to make that, quote, primarily engaged in social welfare, and that leaves room for political advertising alongside that of serving social welfare. Its an old story but its not ending. Now, up next, the republican majority leader refuses to denounce his party using the new Benghazi Committee for politics. Hey there can i help you . whispering sorry. whispering hi, uh we need a new family plan. whispering how about 10 gigs of data to share and unlimited talk and text. whispering oh ten gigs sounds pretty good. whispering yeah really good whispering yeah and for a family of 4 its a 160 a month. What get outta here whispering im sorry are we still doing the whisper thing . Or . whispering o sorry yes yes whispering well take it. I will cite myself as an example. I have never sought to raise a single penny on the backs of four murdered americans. Even in a culture of hyperpartisanship, certain things that ought to be above politics, like the murder of our four fellow americans, and like whether or not you can trust what any administration, republican or democrat, tells you. That was congressman trey gowdy, who republicans picked to run a new committee focused entirely on benghazi, arguing that the house gops new effort should not politicize or fundraise off benghazi. But while he was making that very case here on msnbc, as it happens, the official house gop Reelection Committee was emailing supporters this fundraising email. Not only citing benghazi as a reason to donate, but tastelessly offering donors the chance to become a, quote, benghazi watchdog, whatever that means. The solicitation mentions goudy by name as well. Now, hes already been pressed on this contradiction and he says he unambiguously asked his colleagues to follow his preference of not fundraising the benghazi investigation. So far, theyre not listening. Eric cabtor refused to specifically answer questions about that political fundraising email. Theres a lot of discussion about the creation of this select committee and around the politics of it versus the policy of it. And i know that, you know, theres much being hurled about right now. And i know theres a lot of other allegations around this, but we should stay focused on that issue and make sure we get to the bottom of it. Now, that is the whole point there. Cantors nonanswer assumes the reason, as he put it, for another benghazi investigation is obviously legitimate, assuming security for example. And that may be the motivation for some republicans. But for many others, benghazi no longer reflects a tragedy as it should. It reflects an opportunity. Thats why members of the Republican Leadership are so eager to fundraise off of it this week, before their new committee is even officially formed. Thats why the word benghazi itself has taken on such force on the right. Its become sort of an or gin story for the myth that Hillary Clinton was a bad diplomat and barack obama a failed commander in chief, even as the previous investigations and reviews found no such conspiracy from the top. And thats the hypocrisy at the root of this neverending story. The very republicans who began an inquisition to supposedly defend and honor our Fallen Heroes are now the ones turning those very deaths into political theat theater, political posturing, and as youre seeing today, a whole lot of political fundraising. Joining me now is msnbc. Com executive editor, richard wolffe, and msnbc contributor, eugene robinson. Welcome, gentleman. Richard, how do they proceed here and claim this is not political . Well, youve got to have some sympathy for them. Theyre frustrated because they cannot get to what theyve already reached, which is, actually, the bottom of their story. So the frustration is they want this to continue. The frustration is, theres got to be some other explanation, because the explanation that everyone else has found just doesnt make any sense for their politics. At the same time, youve got the Republican Base losing the fire in its belly about obama care. Obama care has come into force, and it hasnt wrecked their lives. Even though they may pretend that its wrecked other peoples lives, they have gone on regardless. So they need something else. This story isnt giving enough. So why not launch another investigation. Yes, there are fundraising emails coming on the back of it, but even without that, theres a political need for it, which is that there is no other reason to get people to go vote. Jean, what do you think of that theory of this as not only fundraising, but a fundamental mobilization strategy, regardless of the facts underlying the tragedy . I think thats absolutely right. I think we know the facts underlying the tragedy. Look, we should want to know more about state department security, we should want to make sure that our diplomats are safe overseas. Beyond that, you know, theyre going to yell and scream about talking points. Theyre going to yell and scream about what was said after the fact, ground thats already been plowed, and that really is irrelevant to the tragedy itself, that Means Nothing. It Means Nothing to moderate and independent voters either, was it means a lot to the base. So benghazi has become this rallying cry, and as richard said, they need to keep that intensity up if obamacare not going to do it, then maybe benghazi will do the trick. Right. And this idea that Hillary Clinton is in the crosshairs, i just have never bought it. I just dont see this being the thing that brings her down. And again, theyve made it political, her performance in the hearing about this goes down, i think, as a much higher watermark for her than her inquisitors. She was asked about it again today. I want to play that for you, richard. Take a listen. Benghazi, the new investigation. Are you satisfied with the answers and are you content with what you know what happened . Absolutely. I mean, of course, there are a lot of reasons why, despite all of the hearings, all of the information thats been provided, some choose not to be satisfied and choose to continue to move forward. Thats their choice, and i do not believe there is any reason for it to continue in this way, but they get to call the shots in the congress. So you know whats not satisfying out of this is that four good americans died out of all of this. But even more unsatisfying, and every member of congress who really knows this story knows this very well, that even more unsatisfying piece of it is this was an intelligence operation, that went badly wrong. So unless republicans have forgotten everything theyve been telling the American People since 9 11, at least, about sources and methods and national security, and the need to protect the Intelligence Services of the United States of america, if theyve forgotten all of that, then, yes, they can pursue the story to their Hearts Content and wonder why, oh, why did the American Ambassador to the u. N. Not tell the full story about an intelligence operation that went wrong. Or they can just reveal sources and methods and pull out everything that the cia doesnt want to tell everyone about everything that it does in north america or every postarab spring country. Its a farce. They know its a farce when eric cantor goes out and says its about politics and policy, there is no policy here. It is purely about the politics. Right. So gene, when you look at that, i want to be clear, were covering this because tomorrow theyre going to hold a vote to elect a select committee. You mentioned in intelligence, the only other select committee that exists is in espionage and intelligence. A worthwhile select committee. They are turning the forces of government towards this. Absolutely. This is an official act. This is a big step for congress to create this special committee to do an investigation like this. The question is, what kind of investigation will it be . Richard makes a good point. They actually, i think, they are not going to uncover every rock to look whats under it and reveal all sorts of sources and methods. I think cooler heads will keep them from doing that. So i think they will quickly turn to the politics of benghazi. Thats where we started and that is where we end this segment. We will look at the politics tomorrow. Eugene robinson and richard wolffe, thank you both for joining me tonight. Thank you, appreciate it. Good to be here, ari. Coming up, people are on edge in albuquerque over a Police Department accused of being too quick to use deadly force by eric holders justice department. We will have the latest reason why that may be a continuing cause for concern. , and she became the face for a movement to stand up to terrorists in order to educate the girls of the world. Tonight, malala is using her powerful voice to bring back the kidnapped schoolgirls in nigeria. Thats next. growls man thats a good look for you. woman that was fun. man yeah. man let me help you out with the. woman . Oh no, i got it. man you sure . woman just pop the trunk. man vo i may not know where the road will lead, but. Im sure my subaru will get me there. announcer love. Its what makes a subaru, a subaru. Where youve learned youa thing or two. Age this is the age of knowing what youre made of. 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Comcast business built for business. In the spotlight tonight, the growing crisis in nigeria, in the Northeast Corner of the nation. It appears hundreds of people may have been killed in an attack this week. A local official tells nbc news that insurgents attacked on a busy market day saying, quote, they went into the market area and started shooting. They killed anybody on sight, killing people, killing houses and shops. Meanwhile, Nigerian Police today have offered a 300,000 award for any mfgs leading to the rescue of the 276 girls still missing after the militant group, boko haram abducted them from their school while they were taking tests. The new reward that was Just Announced from the Nigerian Government of 300,000 about information for the missing girls is a start, but we need a lot more action. The Nigerian Government has accepted assistance from the u. S. And other nations, as weve reported, however, just a few hours ago, senator Susan Collins told chris matthews, she thinks we need to do a lot more. It would be possible to put in some special forces into nigeria. Once we locate these girls and rescue them, we ought to at least try. In uganda, we have special forces that are going after a criminal that is making soldiers out of young boys. Why shouldnt we have the same kind of effort to rescue these innocent schoolgirls before they are either sold into slavery, forced into marriages at very young ages. And also, required to convert. Malala yousafzai, the pakistani girl, who is a champion of womens education in her own country, was targeted by the taliban in 2012. You remember the story, of course. Gunman stormed her school bus, shot her in the head. Malala survived and shes Still Standing up to the taliban and shes become a global activist for girls education. So earlier today, she spoke about this crisis in nigeria, with nbc chief correspondent, bill neely. A lot of people think the government hasnt done enough so far. These girls have been unheard of for three weeks. It was quite disappointing in the beginning that everyone was asking the government to do something, but the government was silent. But you see, after three weeks, when people started speaking, when they made it a serious issue, theyve taken action, theyre asking the government. Now youve seen that barack obama has spoke, David Cameron has spoke, and the Nigerian Government is also going to take a step. I think when we speak, we can highlight this issue. And im very happy that people have taken it serious and they are highlighting it, but now im hopeful that theyll find a solution for it and theyll soon solve it. If your voice could get through to these girls and more were kidnapped over the weekend, if you had a message for them in their terrible ordeal, what would you say to them . I would like to tell my sisters that, never lose hope, because we are with you. And always be hopeful, because god is with you. All the people, they are praying for you and they are struggling for your protection. And we want you to be free and we want you to live a normal life, to go to school and to enjoy your life and to have eql rights. So never lose hope, because even if everyone remains silent, i consider it my duty that i will speak, even if no one is listening to me, but i will continue it. I will continue it, until people take an action. I have to ask you, malala, why . Havent you done enough for the cause of girls education, both in your own country and around the world. Why once again get involved in an issue like this, with dangerous militants who may come to regard you as their enemy as we. Isnt it just time to be quiet and stay safe . I have been through terrorism and i have learned from my life that when you are speaking for truth and when you are speaking for justice, then no one can defeat you. Im hopeful that i will continue my campaign and it will work. And i will achieve my goals and i will achieve my dreams. I consider nigerian girls as my sisters, so it would be like someone says, i dont want to speak for my sister, even if my sister is in a difficult situation, i should remain silent. So, i think that even if i if i remain silent, and we think for a second, oh, just ignore this issue, then the danger is that this will spread. They have now abducted more than 400 200 girls. Tomorrow they will do 400 and 500. And it will continue. So the thing is, if we want to protect other girls as well, then we have to speak. Peep have to take a stand . Yes. People have toake a stand and they have to raise the voices of these girls. You have crossed the border from pakistan. Youre now living in the uk. You dont see any borders in the world for your cause, do you . Whether its girls in nigeria or girls in pakistan or anywhere else . The world is your cause . I think this is just a small globe and we are all living on this globe together with diversity and there are some girls who are uneducated and i think we should speak up for these girls in this whole world. Because this is our world and this is our home. That was the interview there with nbcs bill neely. Coming up, president obama and top cop eric holder get the answer to the question, what is wrong with the Death Penalty in this country . And Albuquerque Police are involved in another act of deadly force, killing this man as protesters prepare for a city Council Showdown over Police Tactics in their divided city. Scott hello nbr scott were concerned. You just fed your lawn earlier this spring and now youre at it again. 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Jack schreiber, last word intern, youre carrying on a tradition that lawrence started. How do you feel having done your read here . It felt pretty good. You know, its not like public speaking where theres other people in the room. Its just me and you. Just two guys talking. Did you like your last word internship . I thought it was great. Everyone was so much fun to work with. Great personalities. And Kevin Durants mother is actually going to be on this program tomorrow, so well talk to her. I dont know if well get to talk about the presentation there. And i want people at home to not get too nervous that theres guest hosts and now the interns are taking over. I dont know whats going to come next. Guest host, former guest host. Thats why youve got to keep watching. Thanks for your internship and your work here. And we will be right back. These fit nicely. [ female announcer ] crest 3d White Whitestrips keep the whitening ingredient in place, guaranteeing professional level results. 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Welcome to the modern world. Esurance. Backed by allstate. Click or call. Welsfx car unlock beep. Rld. Vo davids heart attack didnt come with a warning. Today his doctor has him on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. If youve had a heart attack be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. In the application of the Death Penalty in this country, we have seen significant problems. Racial bias, an uneven application of the Death Penalty. All these, i think, do raise significant questions about how the Death Penalty is being applied. And this situation in oklahoma, i think, just highlights some of the significant problems there. So ill be discussing with eric holder and others, you know, to get me an analysis of what steps have been taken, not just in this particular instance, but more broadly in this area. That was president obamas recent assignment for attorney general eric holder. And today, a Bipartisan Panel just did part of that work. After two years of study, the constitution project released a comprehensive report on the didnt across the u. S. Just one week, of course, after that botched 43minute execution of inmate clayton lockett. Theres no call for repealing the Death Penalty from this panel, which included Death Penalty supporters, opponents, and criminal justice experts. But there was a call for reform, such as better training for handling forensic evidence, more proper training for those who perform these executions, safeguarding against racial bias, such as redoubling efforts for diverse jury pools, and better defending defendants rights to effective counsel. 32 states still use the practice. And wile the u. S. Is one of the only democracies that still considers this punishment acceptable at all, the Death Penalty has long enjoyed widespread support in our country. No modern u. S. President ever opposed the Death Penalty during his tenure. The last year, president carter did call for a moratorium. Heres what clayton locketts stepmother had to say about the Death Penalty when i interviewed her the day after her son died in that botched execution. One thing is for sure, we are not administering the drugs proper ll lly and people are be tortured to death and pronounced dead and they are still alive and they are suffering great pain with these drugs. And i think that it needs to be stopped, halted until we can look into this thing and find out whats really going on and get the proper way to put people down. Joining me now is mark airily, a former attorney general for virginia, a republican, whos overseen 36 executions during his tenure and was on this Bipartisan Panel. Welcome and thanks for your time. Thank you. Great to be with you. Let me start like this. As a nation, we have been doing this for a long time. Why are we so bad at it . Well, you know, thats a great question. You know, for i think most of my career, i was a strong supporter of the Death Penalty, conceptually. I think when you get involved in it, as a lot of people do when they get close to the system, you realize how complicated it is and how difficult it is to administer. Im kind of a small Government Conservative guy and im often amazed at my fellow small Government Conservatives who think the government can get this right, when they think the government cant do so many things right. And i think what we saw in oklahoma the past couple of weeks really, you know, raises its symbolic of a larger issue. And that is conceptually, you can make a strong argument for the Death Penalty. But when you look at the way its mrnted today in america, i think its disproportionate, its often unfair, and it may well be becoming unconstitutional. And your report looks at that, in terms of the way its practiced. When people saw the way that a botched execution went down, it was horrific. And yet many of those Drug Companies and many other entities dont want to be involved in it, because they feel its horrific, even when its done, supposedly, correctly. How important is that aspect to the growing calls for us to rethink the practice . I do think what we saw in oklahoma, again, is sort of symbolic of a larger issue across the board. You know, its not just the problems with lethal injection, but in in parts of the United States, we have defendants who have attorneys who are not rae trained in Death Penalty cases. Death penalty defense is a very highly specialized Technical Area of the law. If youre going to have heart surgery, you dont just want a doctor, you want a heart surgeon. If youre someone charged with a capital offense, you have a right to a lawyer, but you need more than a lawyer, you need someone very specialized in Death Penalty cases. And if you dont get that, youre really lacking zplp yeah, you mentioned that. And thats the other big difference not only in this area of the law, but in this area of ending peoples lives. What you have when you look at these studies of innocent people or people who may not have been guilty on death row, you find in one study that was exhausted from the 70s, 2004, 117 were exonerated. The big problem there, unlike any other punishment we have as a civilization, if we have innocent people here and theyre killed, then it doesnt ever matter. Theres no way to right that. Right. And you know, the report today that was issued by the constitution project is called irreversible error. And you know, it just highlights what you said. If you make a mistake in this process, and mistakes have been made. We know in the last several years, you know, weve had over 150 people exonerated who were on death row, but when you put an innocent person to death, thats an irreversible error. And it actually costs more to put someone to death than it does to keep them in prison for life. So i think its a system that a lot of americans like myself, who have supported for so long, really have serious questions about today, when you recognize that in the administration of it, theres a lot that can go wrong, a lot that can be unfair. And the last thing we want to do in this country is to put an innocent person to death at the hands of the government. Thank you for sharing your expertise and msome of the way your thinkings evolved. Next, well talk about some of i mentioned earlier in the broadcast. Police shoot and kill a man in the city of albuquerque, you can see him right there, a city on edge over the use of deadly force. Stay with us. Without standard l. You are feeling exhilarated with frontwheel drive. You are feeling powerful with a 4cylinder engine. [ male announcer ] open your eyes. To the 6cylinder, 8speed lexus gs. With more standard horsepower than any of its german competitors. This is a wakeup call. This is a wakeup call. And im his mom at the dog park. The kids get trail mix, and heres what you get after a full day of chasing that cute little poodle from down the street. Mm hmm delicious milos kitchen chicken meatballs. They look homemade, which he likes almost as much as making new friends yes, ill call her. Aww, ladies man. Milos kitchen. Made in the usa with chicken or beef as the number one ingredient. The best treats come from the kitchen. Trwith secure wifie for your business. It also comes with public wifi for your customers. Not so with internet from the phone company. I would email the phone company to inquire as to why they have shortchanged these customers. But that would require wifi. Switch to comcast Business Internet and get two Wifi Networks included. Comcast business built for business. Today, toronto mayor rob rd reassured his supporters he will be back from rehab in time for the upcoming election. Quote, of course im coming back and im going to kick butt, he said. He also told to the toronto sun, quote, rehab is amazing, it reminds me of football camp. And we wish him a speeding recovery. Book any flight or hotel and if you find it for less well match it and give you fifty dollars back thats the expedia guarantee live in the same communities that we serve. People here know that our operations have an impact locally. Were using more natural gas vehicles than ever before. The trucks are reliable, thats good for business. But they also reduce emissions, and thats good for everyone. It makes me feel very good about the future of our company. Police in new mexicos largest city are again facing a swift backlash of deadly shooting. On saturday after a long standoff, Officials Say an Albuquerque Police officer shot can killed a 50yearold retired air force colonel name ed arman martin. The standoff began after a frantic call to 911. The departments released videos from before and after the shooting. A warning, they are disturbing. You can see here in the first video, what was supposedly happening inside armands home moments before he died. Police say it was taken on a cell phone by armands son. A voice is heard saying, get out, as the family runs outside. And two other videos released by the police taken from an officers helmet camera, Armand Martin is already dead, on the ground in his driveway and you can see police approaching the body. In the other video, officers handcuff martin, although he is already dead, per department policy, his body is then removed, revealing two guns and an ammunition clip. Police say martin came out of his home firing both guns, but have not released any video, showing that particularly part of the incident. Monday night, protesters stormed a city council meeting, demanding the police chief resign after a string of highprofile shootings, this one being the latest. Attorney general eric holder had ordered a review of the Albuquerque Police and when those findings came out recently, the doj found, quote, a pattern or practice of excessive force. Joining me now is eugene odonnell, a former Police Officer and professor of law of police study at john j. College of criminal justice. Welcome. Theres a lot we dont know at this juncture about this particular incident, but put this in the broader context and whats happening in this Police Department. This just underscores the urgency of fixing this department, which is obviously very broken, and shows how difficult it is to build trust and support when you have this kind of record. 24 fatality in four years. We dont know ultimately what will be the judgment in this case, was the urgency is that people will not trust the police, will not support them, and will not believe them, even, if their accounts of these things are not transparent and if theyre not out in front in changing these series of broken policies, broken oversight, failure to train, and ultimately a culture that is permissive about the use of deadly force. You say permissive. And let me read from that doj report. Include, apd officers too frequently use deadly force against people who pose a minimal threat. Encounters between apd officers and people with Mental Illness or in crisis too frequently result in a use of force or a higher level of force than necessary. Tell me how they are hurting people when they are supposed to do that as a last resort. This is an upside down situation, we want Police Officers to bring peace and use restraint and act rationally, in the face of people not acting rationally and not listening to commands, we want the police to act rock solid and bring good judgment, thats the imperative. And unfortunately in albuquerque, by all accounts, including this damning indictment by doj, it hasnt been that at all, particularly in response to the mentally ill, they were signaled out for exacerbating the situation. So, again, this incident ultimately will be judged i think the police tried to do some positive things here like getting psychologists involved, trying to reach out to the v. A. Hospital. So maybe theyre learning, but i dont think people have much patience for this to continue to pull out and need to get about the work of turning this around. And speak to the pressure, were looking at new footage of people protesting, trying to get a measure of accountability, which we would all say is good. On the flip side, nobody wants a Police Department to be overly political responsive. They have to be, ideally, above politics. From your experience, you know, on the force, what is the right role here for pressure on the police in these instances . This is hurting the cops, because if youre a legitimate officer trying to value human life, this is a very confusing time in albuquerque for you. So the failure of leadership, the failure to embrace this earlier, the failure to have guidelines that most major city departments have is shocking at this point. So they need to get about the business of changing those procedures. Building trust and confidence, so the good Police People in uniform can feel proud of their job, and really buy in. Thats really what this is about. The best Police Departments in the country on restraint of use of force, the cops believe the preservation of human life should be the top priority. Not because theyre commanded to or disciplined into it, its because they actually believe it. You say theyre not disciplined into it, but isnt that weird, because we talk so much about deterrents when it comes to the suspected criminals. Why arent we talking about that about some of these Police Officers . Theres no question that theres room for oversight and some people should not be in this organization and some of the recruiting has been cited as a problem. So there are larger issues. But ultimately, i think, in dayin, dayout policing, you get the good Police People. You make them the examples. You try to emulate their conduct, try to emulate their restraint, try to make that the definition of the Albuquerque Police department, and push aside these bad actors and these bad incidents. Right. Here here. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes appeared in the sober morning light, republicans everywhere were sifting through what happened last night in the first big round of republican primaries. The headlines this morning about who won in the ceaseless battle between the 2 party in the establishment and whether the tea party beat the establishment or the establishment beat the tea party for the gop establishment became the to party. But here is the big winner, the g