0 this. when asked if he would vote for speaker john boehner to retain his speakership? >> i can tell you that i would put in last hope in the most conservative person as it would represent the conservative values of the good people from idaho's second congressional district. >> that is a no, i won't vote for john boehner. and john boehner knows it. brian smith is being backed for the club for growth, you know the even crazier club that is backed by grover norquist. it is set up by a website called primarymycongressman.com. and brian smith clicked on that website and became a republican congressional candidate. and a top reason for the club for growth challenging -- incumbent republicans and supporting primaries against incumbent mike simpson, is that mike simpson voted to increase the debt limit just like john boehner asked him to after john boehner struck a deal with president obama in 2011. >> when you look at this final agreement that we came to with the white house, you know, i got 98% of what i wanted. i'm pretty happy. >> and with that agreement, job led eight term republican congressman mike simpson from the safest seat in the house straight into a primary fight with primary, congressman candidate brian smith. and that primary is going to be a whale of a fight. joining me now, our former labor secretary, robert reisch, and his new documentary comes out september 27th. and "the washington post," ezra klein. robert reisch, we're at that time on the calendar again where september 30th we come to the point where we have to come up with a type of legislation to continue funding the government, followed quickly by an increase in the debt ceiling. and of course, as usual, the republican threats are flying. >> well, yes, lawrence, this whale of a fight. it is interesting to conceive of john boehner having a whale of a fight with a president that is not going to negotiate. it is like shadow boxing. and who are you actually going to fight with when the president is not going to negotiate? and the president is actually right in not negotiating. bond markets are already going to be roiled by the feds tapering off the quantitative easing, if you want a chance on that on the federal debt, we'll see the bond markets go crazy, wall street will go crazy, all the republican patriots will come down hard on them as they did the last time. >> i want to play what jay carney said about negotiating on the debt ceiling yesterday. >> let me reiterate what our position is, and it is unequivokal, we will not negotiate on that. period. it is congress's responsibility to maintain the full credit of the united states. we have never defaulted and we must never default. that is still 100%. >> ezra klein, did you hear any wiggle room in there? >> no, the obama administration, this is actually, i think, a really important point. they have religion on this issue. they don't talk about this issue the way they kind of talk about raising taxes on the rich, or something they normally support. they are zealous on this issue. and the reason they're so committed, they believe it is a legacy issue for them. they believe to be the administration that allowed the debt ceiling to become a routine point of hostage negotiations and a routine point of leverage for the republicans in congress, would be to saddle them with a dangerous time bomb. they are absolutely and utterly determined to break the republican party and any party for that matter of this habit right now. they are not going to negotiate. but i tell you, that is why i'm actually more afraid of the people in washington, because you have two positions on the table. the obama position wouldn't negotiate, the republicans won't raise the debt limit. and the only way that equation works is for a certain amount of time the debt ceiling does not get raised. i think it is likelier we get into a kind of price mode than a lot of people do right now. >> robert reisch, is it possible that john boehner is sort of like the junky speaker of the house that he just needs a first fix today. and the first fix he needs is to continue funding the government beginning october one. which is also the crucial day where signing up for obama care begins october first. and that once he gets that vote done, and he is still sounding tough on the debt ceiling, he can then figure out a way to sound just soft enough by the time the debt ceiling comes up. >> you know, i'm sure that he is -- his strategy is really a non-strategy. >> i didn't say it was a good strategy, that is for sure. >> basically is the only strategy available to him. you just kick the can down the road as far as you possibly can. that september 30th deadline for getting some sort of budget agreement is necessary to avoid a government shutdown. and john boehner knows what happened to newt gingrich, when he had a shutdown. all of this is taking place, remember in the gravitational pull in the mid-terms of 2014. people know this is coming up. people know how the parties are positioned and how they're viewed is going to affect what happens in 2014. the other thing to keep in mind here, the deficit, unlike the last time republicans were threatening all sorts of things, the deficit is now a very tiny proportion of the gdp, on track to become 4% of the total economy by the end of this fiscal year. the congressional budget office is predicting 3.4% next year. this is the same as the 30-year average of a 3.4% deficit of the gdp. it is a non-issue, it should be a non-issue. >> ezra is your worry that the opponents of the debt ceiling will actually dig in stronger after they see a type of deal worked out for funding the government september 30? >> yes, it is part of that deal for funding the government. john boehner, they are going to ask, cantor said to reuters, the debt ceiling is a point of leverage. they're going to convince their caucus, the members, this is a good idea. and we'll get past the conference if there is any time after that. get past the continuing resolution. if there is any time, they thought they would have a couple of months before the debt ceiling. now we know we're going to have continuing resolution. that needs to be in place by october one. the debt ceiling, we hit it as a point of no return. nothing more we can do at that point. they don't have two or three months to come up with a strategy. when they do it, it is all going to be one big fight. >> ezra klein, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. coming up, vice president joe biden says that syria's government must be held accountable for its actions. and tomorrow marks 50 years since the march on washington, president obama will speak at tomorrow's celebration. joy reid will have a preview of what she believes the president will say. and in the rewrite tonight. a brooklyn high school student. and new york city michael bloomberg, michael kelly and the policy of stop-and-frisk. 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