0 america based on lies. >> you don't like obama care. you feel that it's unconstitutional, bad for the country and on and on. >> it's going to destroy us. >> okay. going to destroy the country. >> going to destroy us. getting 30 million more people health care is going to destroy us. most of the militia groups named by the southern poverty law center claimed that they are not hate groups, and they are only exercising their constitutional rights. but all it takes is one person to create another oklahoma city situation. take james cummings. before cummings was killed in a domestic violence situation in 2008, he was preparing an attack on newly elected president obama with what? a dirty bomb. the centers for disease control says cummings is the first american to come close to assembling the elements of a fully radioactive dirty bomb. in a 2010 "time" magazine cover, the story about extreme and author of "right wing resurgence." and also with us richard cohen, and on board is dr. james peterson, associate professor of english at lehigh university. gentlemen, great to have you with us tonight. mr. cohen, you first. what kind of reaction have you received from this report now that it's been out by your organization, the southern poverty law center? >> well, i think there is a lot of concern, of course, about the numbers that we're talking about, the increase in the number of these conspiracy-minded anti-government groups, the increased in the number of right-wing plots. a lot of talk about it, a lot of concern, but we haven't yet heard from secretary napolitano or general holder. i think it's really, really very important for them to take this seriously and to increase the number of resources that they're devoting to this growing problem. >> so you see a real parallel before oklahoma city and right now, moving up as far as the rhetoric, the number of groups, and the activity that is out there? >> absolutely, ed. and you know, six months before the oklahoma city bombing, we sent a letter to attorney general reno saying that we were really very, very concerned. and, you know, we feel that same kind of concern now. and i want to point out one thing. you know, you gave the number, almost 1400 of these anti-government groups. those figures were collected before the newtown massacre and before all of this right-wing craziness over, you know, proposed gun control laws now. and so i think that we're likely to see a further spike in these numbers. >> sure. mr. johnson, you wrote the 2009 analysis for the department of homeland security about right-wing extremism. it was heavily criticized by conservatives everywhere. you were repudiated by the dhs under pressure, and left the agency. has that experience colored your opinion at all when you hear reports like this come out? >> well, what's colored my opinion is the fact that department of homeland security has not changed since i left. despite this huge spike in the number of anti-government groups, they still only have one analyst looking at domestic non-islamic extremism. i find that quite startling and unsettling to me. >> what should be done about it? >> i think the slc is taking an important step in recommending an interagency task force. but there are other things that can be done. we have a whole generation of analysts and law enforcement officers who have been coming up through the ranks who had no idea what they're dealing with because they weren't on the job back in the 1990s. i would encourage training. we need to have commitment on the federal, state and local law enforcement to long-term undercover investigations looking into these groups. >> well, mr. johnson, how do you know what to take serious and what is a joke? i mean, where do you draw the line? and can analysts actually get to a point where they say we really need to watch this group. they are going to be trouble. >> yeah, that's one of the difficult aspects of the job. i think one of the things you can look at is the different types of movements we have present here in the united states, and look at the histories. do they have a history of violence? are they making current calls for violence? are they making threatening language either towards minority groups or towards government officials? these are the types of things that analysts and officers should be looking at. >> james peterson, can we ignore the fact that these groups have increased the intensity under an african-american president? >> absolutely not. i mean, that's an important factor in this whole discussion. we've seen other studies that have tracked the rise of racial animus over the course of mr. obama's presidency. and, ed, you've done a lot of work on this show to try to talk about the kind of language we see copping from the right sometimes, sometimes from political readers around socialism and some of the racialized language. the reason why we want to be cautious and sensible about that kind of language is it stokes the flames of this sort of radical right-wing groups that are interested in training and preparing for warfare. now, listen, these groups have the right to do that. but at the end of the day, our government and citizens have to be very, very vigilant about the own extremism that exists in our society. >> what would trigger, mr. johnson, a group to do something? >> well, we're looking at an issue that i hope wasn't going to come to fruition during this next administration. that's the issue of gun control. this is a very inflammatory issue for these types of groups who have been arming themselves. and actually, they've had conspiracy theories that are perpetuated on the internet for the past four or five years talking about this very fact, that there might be a gun ban. so when we have these types of events like the newtown massacre and it brings up these issues, they always have the potential to agitate these groups further. >> mr. cohen, in your letter, you brought up the example of this man, who posted a rant on youtube about firearms. here it is. >> i am not letting my country be ruled by a dictator. i'm not letting anybody take my guns. if it goes one inch further, i'm going to start killing people. >> are guys like this taken seriously as theres, or is this all talk? mr. cohen, what do you think? >> you never know. but who knew of tim mcveigh before the oklahoma city bombing. let me make another point, ed, if i could. and that is we would never minimize the threat of islamic terrorism in this country. >> sure. >> you know, 9/11 is, you know, the pearl harbor of our generation. at the same time, there have been many more right-wing plots than there have been islamic plots since that period of time. the west -- a west point counterterrorism agency learned or reported that the number of right-wing plots had increased fourfold since the 1990s. so we're really looking for a better balance of law enforcement resources devoted to this issue. >> i would imagine this puts a lot of pressure on local law enforcement as well to make sure that they're going to have the training so they can recognize these kinds of things as well and then report them up the change. mr. peterson, doctor, what about the news today of increased racial tension at oberlin college campus? officials at the school are on high alert. school campuses particularly vulnerable when it comes to hate attacks? >> i don't think that they are. i think one, oberlin has such a rich tradition. it's been such a progressive institution for so long that it's sad to see them being challenged by. this what you find on college campuses is there are a lot of incidents of racialized graffiti, a lot of black face incidents. and when you take all those things together, there is obviously a lot of work for us to do to sort of reduce tensions on college campuses. and a lot of this has to do with diversity issues, different cultures, different people coming into contact and making sure we're being vigilant on college campuses in the same way we need law enforcement to be vigilant around in dealing with some of the right wing extremist groups right here. universities, it's a separate issue. some we can address in the classroom. many of them have to be addressed structurally by hiring more faculty of color, recruiting and retaining students there is a comprehensive plan we need to use for the university. >> well, mr. cohen, i can imagine we can see your report on the southern poverty law center website. i would encourage our viewers to do just that. >> it is a very important report. >> you bet. daryl johnson, richard cohen and james peterson, thanks for your tomb tonight on this very important subject. remember to answer tonight's question, right there at the bottom of the screen. share your thoughts with us on twitter and facebook. we want to know what you think. well, shooter, he is back. he said if he had a chance, he would do it all over again the same way. that's next. hey. they're coming. yeah. british. later. sorry. ok...four words... scarecrow in the wind... a baboon... monkey? 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