Transcripts For MSNBCW The Beat With Ari Melber 20200224

Youve been watching the news. Its senator Bernie Sanders, who scored the widest victory margin of any race thus far with his blowout in those weekend nevada caucuses. Fortifying a delegate lead that while it is early is significant. Now, we follow the facts here on the beat, and these facts are measurable. In fact, tonight we have that measurement here for you, right here on the right hand of your screen. Its pretty simple, but its also very important and can be overlooked. So lets go through it. This is the current delegate count. No matter who you may like and no matter what d. C. Insiders told you for months, the only gas that powers a candidate to the nomination is these delegates. And sanders now has 43 of them. More than his closest rival, Pete Buttigieg at 26. Sanders has more than triple the number of delegates of most other people in this race, including people who dont even make this board yet. This is the reality. It has been ushered in with sanders decisive victory on saturday. You may have been watch along with us for that nbc call on saturday night. Nbc news projects Bernie Sanders the winner in nevada. Tonight he lays legitimate claim to being the frontrunner for the democratic nomination. Senator Bernie Sanders is now the democratic frontrunner. He put the work in on the ground for a long time. He is rewarded for that tonight. He is undoubtedly the frontrunner now. Confirming he is now the partys frontrunner for the president ial nomination. That means sanders has now jumped buttigieg in the overall delegate count and now leads by doubledigits. Leading this measurable delegate count, this is what matters for winning. And i want to be clear, because we always try to tell you how we come to the reporting that we bring you. People can debate the polls all they want and the rhetoric about who is a frontrunner before any voting occurred. But spending months as washington, d. C. s frontrunner doesnt get you a ticket to anywhere, not to the convention, let alone a starring role, let alone a nomination. When one candidate gets a delegate lead that cant be erased by any next single state, history shows that is very hard to vanquish. Now take South Carolina which is coming this weekend. The state awards 54 delegates. But with this delegate marks sanders now could come in second or even third there and still finish next saturday night closer to the nomination with a larger lead than he has right now. He could take a larger delegate lead, then other rivals without even coming in first. And there are also signs that that would be sanders worst case scenario. They are now basically within the margin of error for the lead in new nbc poll out tonight. After that, it will be three more days to super tuesday when a third of all delegates are awarded. The nominee needs about 1900 there to clinch, and 1300 are up for grabs this coming tuesday, a week from tomorrow. The last cycle i can also remind you, both candidates who led the delegate count heading into super tuesday went on to win. Same for mitt romney in 2012. He went on to win his partys nomination with that delegate lead. In 2008, barack obama famously began with a narrow but resilient delegate lead. He never let it go. Bernie sanders has been laser focused on the delegates available next tuesday. Not only touting his early victory, which weve heard about, but campaigning in california and texas, even before he built this lead when he took nevada. I think all of you know we won the popular vote in iowa. We won the New Hampshire primary. We have now won the nevada caucus. We are going to win here in texas. We are going we are going to win across the country. That was the scene, as mentioned, in a super tuesday state as he celebrated the nevada victory. Now you may have heard detractors of this vermont senator inside the Democratic Party argue that he has never publicly pledged historically full loyalty to this Democratic Party. And that may be true, and thats something people can debate. But you know whats clear right now . Bernie sanders learned the rules of this Democratic Party and he is now navigating them more effectively with greater support in the democratic contests thus far than inelse. Were going to kick things off here with Benjamin Dixon. He is a podcast host at Progressive Army and we should mention a Bernie Sanders supporter who has joined us before. And ive got others standing by. But given this weekends results, we wanted to begin with you, your view of what nevada means and the reaction. Yeah, thanks for having me again, ari. I think what it says to us is we can finally put this narrative to bed, that Bernie Sanders doesnt have appeal amongst a broader and wider electorate. A lot of people dismissed the win in iowa and New Hampshire because theyre predominantly white states. But what we saw in nevada, that bernie won in every single category. Boomer, white people, black people, latinos, he has the coalition that is necessary and the energy necessary to take on donald trump. Its so interesting you start that i didnt know what you were going to say, but i was discussing this point saturday night in our coverage with Steve Kornacki who, no spoilers, but he is sitting at a table next to me and copping on next. Kornacki and i were discussing the notion of a kind of reverse obama, of obama doing better once he secured iowa. He did better not only with other states that look like iowa, but he did better in more diverse states. Are you arguing that Bernie Sanders this time, perhaps more so than last time has done the reverse and that nevada actually means he can build diversity which is necessary for winning candidates around the whole country . So, absolutely. Nevada clearly shows he has the capacity to connect andres nate with people of color and people of all sorts of walks of life, no matter their age, their financial situation. But he is particularly appealing to the working class. And i would argue that the working class of america is probably the most diverse subset that we could set by. It makes sense that people who need something from this country to improve their material conditions will find something appealing in senator sanders. Let me play a little bit of the senator, also rebutting something that has gotten louder has he has clearly shown this lead, which is some people concerned that maybe he is not the quote unquote electable. Take a listen. Some of the folks in the Corporate Media are getting a little bit nervous. And they say bernie cant beat trump. So lets look at some of the polls, general election cbs. Sander, 47. Trump, 44. And the key battleground state, michigan, sanders, 48. Trump, 41. Bernie sanders not known for reading off polls and obsessing over electability. What hes doing there . Well, he is actually just proving the point. So there has been a massive push through the media, and i think the tide is turning, but lot of network, they have pushed this idea that Bernie Sanders is not electable up against donald trump. Those of us who have watched this Campaign Seen the organizing forces. Theyre people who are traveling across the country on their own dime and own time to knock on doors because they believe in what senator sanders is pushing for. I think what he is doing is finally going ahead and letting you know the polling, the data shows that im electable. But those of white house have been following this campaign all along, weve known that from the beginning, that he is the most viable candidate to beat donald trump. All very interesting. Stay with me. I want to add some more voices. I bring in msnbcs Steve Kornacki and mara gaye with the New York Times and an expert for us on many issues, including some of the questions around diverse. The walk us through, steve, this conversation, both the math and the measurable broadening of at least in nevada as a sanders supporter. You saw sanders opening up that big delegate lead because of nevada. We can point out too nbc news has still not allocated four of the delegates from nevada. He may still get a few more out of there. You go to South Carolina, as you mentioned, 54 up this weekend. If you look at the polling, look likes a Biden Sanders race. Maybe tom steyer ask a bis a bi factor. You do the breakdown. Biden is not on the chart next to your head. Well, so. Thats the chart next to my head. Not on the first two. Well keep it on steve. If biden picks up on that chart. Right. A little bit in South Carolina, bernie could still be further along. Thats the thing. He would be passing immediately by and would be passing buttigieg, and he would still be behind sanders. If its a onetwo, even with a win for biden, a reasonably close victory, sanders would still be significantly ahead of him. I think if you turn to super tuesday, what the Sanders Campaign has been pointing, to theyve been saying look, when you look at california, which is almost a third of all the delegates that will be up there on super tuesday, 415 pledge delegates, theyve been saying look at our support with hispanic voters. Theyve been saying this for months. Nevada was the first test of that. Sanders got 51 of the hispanic vote in nevada. If that translates to california, whereby the way they have been voting for weeks now in early voting, if that translates to california, you the potential there for sanders to get a massive delegate haul just out of that state. And you start talk about getting ahead in insurmountable delegate leads. When you hear people say oh, but if you could consolidate, whoever it could be, whether its a biden or a bloomberg or someone else, Amy Klobuchar has done well in the popular vote, do you see a time limit for how early that consolidation would have to happen to mathematically catch up . So its tough. Look at this way. Perhaps there is a scenario here where biden is able to pull away and consolidate in South Carolina. He doesnt just win in South Carolina. He gets a decisive victory. Im talking 15, 20 points, Something Like that in South Carolina. In all the headlines the next few days are about biden having the surge of momentum, and maybe that translates into super tuesday. If you win South Carolina narrowly, you get to super tuesday and youre introducing a new element, a new variable. Mike bloomberg and the hundreds of millions he has been spending, he is cutting into the base that biden is trying to consolidate. Its hard to see him do it before super tuesday. Mara . I think the big takeaway for me is that Bernie Sanders has a much broader appeal than some people may have thought. It is true that his wins in iowa, which was a little bit messy, and then New Hampshire were looked at as well, lets just wait and see how the rest of the party feels because those states are not representative, whereas nevada is much more representative. I think if youre a democratic donor, you to really be rethinking the conventional wisdom, especially if youre sitting in new york or d. C. Thinking to yourself, will people of color really vote for Bernie Sanders . Will the working class really turn out for him . I think that is the best thing that bernie could have picked up is a change in that narrative about electability. The real question, though, can the rest of the moderate voters really decide on a single candidate. Because if you really add up the support among moderates, its at least as strong as Bernie Sanders is running in this race. But there is too many candidates. So that idea that the moderates are split about who to support is real, and bloomberg could really come out of that ahead, frankly. And we always have to be careful with the terminology, because it can mean more than we mean it to mean. Sorry for using the word mean three times in one sentence. It may be that there are people who for whatever reason are looking other than sanders, and they may not be quote unquote moderate. Elizabeth warren did well in the early stage. She did better than joe biden in iowa. And those are both liberal polls. You mentioned conventional wisdom, and i have to bring Benjamin Dixon back on that. Because mr. Dixon, at a certain point, if the conventional wisdom is wrong more than its right, what good is it . Right. And i think thats something critical to think about here. The fact that we have a situation where everyone is scrambling. We have a lot of people in the establishment who are still scrambling to try to find a replacement for Bernie Sanders at any cost, even if that means bringing in a republican oligarch like michael bloomberg. So that wisdom, that conventional wisdom of avoiding someone who is a populist, someone who is progressive, someone who appeals to the working class, someone who the working class can see their own values in, i think weve been avoiding that too long in the Democratic Party, at least most of my life certainly. I think the conventional wisdom needs to be set aside and look at the personal convictions of the people who are lifting Bernie Sanders on their shoulders. That comes back to tomorrow on the echoes of 2016, i dont see a lot of overlap between Bernie Sanders and donald trump as policy leaders. I just dont. I do see overlap in the sometimes sclerotic institutions that they challenge. The notion that this somehow Democratic Party run system doesnt work well fair question to raise seems really slow and then really fast. There are tons of stuff you could debate. But if that is hurting some Democratic Candidates and helping the person who they call the quote unquote interloper, that kind of is on the dnc, a point weve kind of pointed out here before. So i want to play for you Amy Klobuchar who said something that i think a lot of people can relate to, which is if youre top three, top four, you shouldnt be run out of the primary, right . But these democratic rules going into super tuesday do give momentum to the hot hand, whether they have a d next to their name ten years ago or not. Take a look. When you look at the actual number of people who have cast a vote, have i the third biggest number. So why would i get out . Thats not even a close call for me. And i think why would you have a call for the two women to get out when you have two billionaires in the race . Well, third wont do it, first of all. Third wont do it. But, you know, there are a lot of voters who want an option other than Bernie Sanders in the race. So if youre Amy Klobuchar, if youre elizabeth warren, youve got to be looking at that and saying lets hold on. Ill stay in this. But i also just want to say i think if youre a democratic voter, youre so heartbroken not just by watching the country under donald trump, but so frustrated with the dnc. I talked to a lot of voters who just think democrats dont know how to win, and they dont really trust that the dnc can get the job done. And did the dnc make certain rules, including viability rules to try to keep out certain people and now perhaps those are benefitting certain people . Well, yes. First of all, Bernie Sanders supporters would be the first to say that the dnc rules were totally biased against their candidates the last time around. So some of this is being driven by frustration and anger in the Democratic Party over the party establishment. And, look, barack obama and donald trump and Bernie Sanders are all outsiders. So i dont think that should be lost here either. Yeah, the power of the outsider. You talk about the trump sanders parallels from 16 to 20. Its populism. Its almost a nonideological sense of frustration where the country is and i think what its been through the last few decades. Trump found a way to channel that on the right. And i think youre seeing sanders channel that on the left. And you are seeing broad similarities in terms of what theyre tapping into. What theyre tapping into and what makes people support Bernie Sanders, the only way to find out with all of our stories is to go ask them. For some people it is ideological idealism, populism, for some people its other issues. These numbers as they grow and we make it clear as we report them, its broader. If its broad enough to be donald trump, nobody nose. Thats why well keep covering it. If we all knew in advance, it wouldnt really be news. Mara gaye and Steve Kornacki in new york. And Benjamin Dixon, thanks for joining us. Coming up, i have special guests to help us understand a watershed moment. Harvey weinstein found guilty today. What it means for this me too movement. Later, the trump world now suddenly downplaying that russia threat that his own Intelligence Services flagged. Well get into that and the socalled enemys list. And later tonight the cofounder of the black lives Matter Movement joins us. Im ari melber. Youre watching the beat on msnbc. Nothing works faster for powerful cold relief. Oh, what a relief it is so fast theres a company thats talked than me jd power. People 448,134 to be exact. They answered 410 questions in 8 categories about vehicle quality. And when they were done, chevy earned more j. D. 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Or make me feel like im not really there. Talk to your doctor, and call 8442342424. I receivelize travel rewards. Going new places going out for a bite going anytime. Rewarded learn more at the explorer card dot com. How we worship, or who we love. And the 2020 census is how that great promise is kept. Because this is the count that informs where hundreds of billions in funding will go each year for things like education, healthcare, and programs that touch us all. Shape your future. Start here. Learn more at 2020census. Gov wthats why xfinity hasu made taking your internetself. And tv with you a breeze. Really . Yup. You can transfer your Service Online in about a minute. You can do that . Yeah. And with twohour Service Appointment windows, its all on your schedule. Awesome. So while moving may still come with its share of headaches. No kidding. Were doing all we can to make moving simple, easy, awesome. Go to xfinity. Com moving to get started. Major news today. A jury finding Harvey Weinstein guilty of Sexual Assault and thirddegree rape. The once powerful hollywood producer handcuffed and jailed immediately. He awaits sentencing now for up to 5 to 29 years that will occur next month. Weinstein also acquitted on two other Sexual Assault charges. They were more serious and carried potential life sentences. Reporters noting that inside the courtroom, the onetime mogul seemed stunned at the verdict, initially didnt even move. Then he was ushered to jail. The new york d. A. Afterward who won the case was touting the witnesses and accusers as heroic. I owe and we all owe an immense debt to you, who had the courage beyond measure to speak your story to the world to this courtroom at great personal risk and in great personal pain. To those of us who were privileged to be in the courtroom when they testified, you know what i mean. These survivors werent just brave. They were heroic. Several other women have spoken out against weinsteins conduct also discussed their reaction today in the press and by phone. I want to thank the jury who did use their common sense and saw past the victimblaming defense for convicting predator Harvey Weinstein guilty of rape. We have finally taken that power back, and we have exposed his evil and that of others like him with true ugliness. He will rot in jail as he deserves and we will begin to have some closure. This is just a drop in a wave to come for predators and survivors everywhere. Quite a day and a lot to take in. Were joined by maya wiley and a journalist who spent years investigating this story, when were back in just 30 seconds. Cut. Liberty mu. Line . Cut. Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Cut. Liberty m. Am i allowed to riff . What if i come out of the water . Liberty biberty. Cut. Well dub it. Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Were back reporting on this major story, Harvey Weinstein convicted today, facing up to 29 years in prison. Also awaiting another separate trial in california. Were joined now by maya wiley, a civil prosecutor in the Southern District of new york and the hollywood reporters kim mast who investigated the weinstein story years before this case. Good to have you both here on obviously such a serious story. Maya, as someone who understands the way these cases work, why prosecutors traditionally and often say theyre too hard to bring. What does this guilty verdict mean today . Well, it means there are a lot of women who hopefully will feel much more able to come forward and press charges when they have been sexually assaulted or raped by someone else. And thats significant, because we know that many, many people and question should also say its men and boys, not just women, who experience Sexual Assault do not report it. And one of the reasons is the humiliation, the trauma, the fear. But its also the fear of how they will be treated through the process. And we saw that happen to some degree in the Harvey Weinstein case. In other words, the women themselves were on trial about having email contact or other forms of contact with him after they were attacked. And that is something that keeps people from reporting. And i have to say, i think the new york police department, their special crime victims, cold case unit also deserves a lot of credit for working with women to convince them to come forward. And we need all parts of the criminal Justice System working together so that people can get justice. Kim, your view . You know, i had a hard time watching that hearing that tape and seeing it of cyrus vance jr. , the d. A. Taking a victory lap when he could have prosecuted this before. I mean, anyone who has followed the case knows that even a couple of years ago Amber Gutierrez wore a wire, caught Harvey Weinstein on time, almost kind of admitting that he had assaulted her, and yet nothing happened. So now he is there, and he is acting as if he is a hero. I will say that the prosecutors in this case i think had a very Important Role in terms of educating this jury that rape is not the tv imagined it may be hollywood version of somebody grabbing a woman in a dark alley. They educated the jury that sometimes victims will stay in touch, that sometimes with the powerful man like Harvey Weinstein, its not so simple. And i think that message landed. Yeah, to kims point, lets discuss that a little bit, because this can get lost, maya. In any case, you can have a case where someone comes over to your house and they steal something and they leave. And the elements of the crime are what happened that day. And if later you have contact with them for whatever reason or youre in a Group Setting or you become friendly, legally, that is not supposed to change the elements of the underlying crime. And yet we have seen in so many past cases like this there are arguments made to juries that it somehow should. This is my point about people who are victims being put on trial. Now defenses are real and people should be able to mount a defense and consent a critical defense. If you have reason to believe someone consented. But thing point is really important and right. We dont even understand trauma responses and we dont understand this is a crime of power. This is power over. This is not really about sex as much as it is about power. And when you have a lot of power over another person, sometimes that power is physical. But sometimes that power is your career or your job or your future. In any instance, that power can be used against you if youre the victim. And i think it is critically important that there be a balance in due process obviously for people accused, but certainly we have to better understand how power operates in terms of how we have interactions like this. And i think thats one of the important things about this case. Kim, one of the things that was reported out initially by the New York Times by jodi kantor and many other talented journalists and we mentioned you were working the case as well, one of the things that emerged is the notion that emerged, at least among some in hollywood that mr. Weinstein was an alleged serial predator hiding in plain sight. Given your work, how is this playing in hollywood in that place that creates so much culture that has so much influence over American Life . Your thoughts on all of that. You know, among civilized people we do have some in hollywood, there is a feeling of relief. A producer who is very established, a very recognizable name just called me before i came on the air and just said its a historic day. And he meant that obviously in a very positive way. So i think that there is a sense of relief. And i think that goes well beyond hollywood. If harvey we didnt have this image of Harvey Weinstein in handcuffs, i hate to think how people would respond. So i think it is a historic and important day, even though some of the counts, the jury didnt convict him on all counts. Were you hearing from people there before today the notion that he could get off itself would have in their view undone something . I think people would have been devastated. I think people needed to see this happen. I mean, harvey is such an extreme case you have to marvel at the fact that it took so much misconduct and so many women coming forward, like 100 women. Thats extraordinary even within what happens here in hollywood, which is things that are improper, to have that extreme, if that was going to be a ground set for acquittal, that would have been very hard and it would have been a blow that would have been hard for many people, not just victims, to recover from. Thats totally right. And i would add that powerful people should not be able to avoid prosecution. And that was kims earlier point. Its a critically important one. Power has to be brought to heel when it is abusive. Both really great guests and points to think through. Kim masters and maya wiley, thank you. A break. Up a ahead, new reporting on the friction inside the doj and all the accusations of meddling. Also, new documents revealing secretary of state pompeo perhaps coordinating with Rudy Giuliani on the very ukraine issue. And trump allies undercutting the russia threat while also writing up a, yes, nixonstyle enemies list. Its 2020, and we visit all. Were back after this. 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Donald trump now formally purging the government of perceived enemies. Axios reporting a list of disloyal employees to oust is circulating from trump allies. Meanwhile, all kinds of debates over what really went down in that now infamous briefing about russia meddling in this 2020 election. Their intelligence officials who are alleging that house members either misheard or misinterpreted part of the briefing, which stated that russia was back helping trumps campaign. Here is Donald Trumps National Security adviser this weekend. Ive seen no intelligence that suggests that. Ive also heard that from the briefers that thats not what they intended the story to be. So, look, who knows what happened over at the house and the intelligence committee, but i havent seen any evidence that russia is doing anything to attempt to get President Trump reelected. Who knows. This is a huge deal whether or not a Foreign Government is now back at election meddling. Who knows not really a good enough answer, according to chris murphy on the Foreign Relations committee responding. Our National Security should stay out of politics, and that is a political statement. What we know is that the russians never stopped interfering in american politics. They dont just get involved in elections. They are involved every single day. With these questions about credibility and independence, its also worth tying together other reporting that the doj under bill barr has more problems that relate to the d. C. U. S. Attorneys office which handled the flynn and stone case. Take a look at the new york time times, report mortgage politicization alleged in the Department Going back to at least last summer with all kinds of questions about the attempted indictment of, you know the face, Andrew Mccabe who replaced james comey and who donald trump considers one of his enemies. Im joined now by federal prosecutor glenn kirschner. Thanks for being here. Thank you, ari. Beat viewers may or may not remember what happened. We reported very early on that the highly unusual way mr. Mccabe was relieved from government duty, to deny him a longstanding and expected pension. Then was told he was under investigation for a very long time. And the Justice Department only announced that that did not result in an indictment, and they closed the case after they got in hot water about other meddling in that same d. C. Office they mentioned, the stone case. Im curious what you make of these latest pieces of report, and do you have a view that there was enough evidence to say that the president was asking for an indictment of a rival in the United States, not in ukraine . Yeah, you know, all of the reporting surrounding the Andrew Mccabe investigation or investigations i should say leaves me highly dubious things were on the up and up coming out of the white house and coming out of bill barr and the department of justice. Because at first they former colleagues in my old office, the d. C. U. S. Attorneys office investigated Andrew Mccabe. And according to the reporting, they concluded there was not enough evidence for an indictment. However, a second team of prosecutors was brought in to give it another look to present to it the grand jury, and it looks like the grand jury was about to no bill it, vote against an indictment. And it looks like the prosecutors did not seek that vote, recognizing that they probably would not have gotten an indictment out of the grand jury. So just pause on that. Thats your interpretation of as mentioned the evidence that we have. If thats true, you are outlining a series of events where the public publicly attacks mccabe on twitter, gets him fired in an unusual way, gets him investigated and tries to get him indicted at which point a jury, which everyone has heard, you know the ham sandwich, a jury for one stands up and says no true bill that was enough to prevent it. Does that mean in your view, it was only the d. C. Jurists standing between the president s demands and this Justice Department indicting a former acting fbi director because the president didnt like him . Thats part of it, ari, but the first Prosecution Team that i mentioned that investigated Andrew Mccabe, they walked off that investigation because i believe they didnt feel it was a righteous prosecution. And that sort of was echoed with what we heard from the roger stone prosecutors, all four of them walked off that case when a new u. S. Attorney came in, one of bill barrs acolyte, tim shea and said from day one according to the New York Times reporting today that he wanted a more lenient sentence for roger stone. The other thing and is that suspicious right there . This d. C. Office, which you mentioned, which you know, handles all kinds of cases, all kinds of issues. Somebody walks in on day one and they already have a particular view of one case and it happens to be the president s longest adviser . Ari, thats so much more than just suspicious. I served under six president s from reagan to trump. I served under ten u. S. Attorney, including jessie lew, my last u. S. Attorney. And no u. S. Attorney has ever come in on the first day and started to insert himself or herself into our cases that weve been working for years saying i want you to ask for a more lenient sentence. That stinks to high heaven, and that was obviously tim shea doing bill barr and President Trumps bidding. Well, i tell you, there is a lot going on, as we often say around here, and that is a story that moved it first it rattively. But as the evidence piles up, you make a strong case for what people should be concerned about. We are definitely going to stay on the case. Glenn kirschner, thank you, sir. Thank you, ari. 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Im gonna get them all. I cant decide. Fidelity has zero commissions for online u. S. Equity trades and etfs, plus zero minimums to open a brokerage account. With value like this, there are zero reasons to invest anywhere else. Fidelity. The eyes of the political world all on South Carolina. The democratic primary now five days away. A key time for any candidate trying to counter bernie with the delegate lead. Over half of democratic primary voters in South Carolina are black voters. The state has long been seen as a test of any democrats ability to build a coalition. Candidates out there now making their pitch. We have an entrepreneurship gap in america, and that is a gap between white entrepreneurs and black and latino entrepreneurs. Its time we give the marginalized, the demonized, the isolated and the oppressed their full share of the american dream. Rip out the roots of systemic racism in this country. Weve got to make sure that we do something about criminal justice in this country. And it is especially humbling in the middle of black History Month to think about what it means to stand before African American voters and ask them for their vote, which turn to patri patrisse cullors. I want to ask you about the candidates, but still, what do you think are the most important issues heading into South Carolina . I think some of the most important issues for black communities is definitely criminal justice reform, climate change, economic justice. Those are the three key issues that many of us want to hear our candidates speak to when they get to South Carolina. And you have not announced your preferences in this democratic primary, like many activists . Youre in these conversations, people look to you politically online and off. Im curious. Who might you support this cycle . Well, im choosing to dual endorse both senator sanders and senator warren. I think we need all hands on deck right now for progressives to join the movement to make sure that we dont get people like Mike Bloomberg, people like biden, and into the president s office. Interesting. Those are two individuals on the campaign trail that some voters like both of them. Theyre certainly both liberal economic leaders. Would you like them on a ticket together . And who would you like on the top of that ticket . Im not there yet to decide who is going to be on the top of that ticket. I think i want to try to unite as many of us together to push for both of these candidates to be leading candidates. Its important that we beat the bloombergs of the world and the bidens of the world. They have created much devastation in our community, and i think were an important moment to get either senator warren or senator sanders into office. And obviously, when you choose, you also reject. Youre rejecting, for example, former Vice President biden, who has argued a lot that he should get some sort of credit for being Barack Obamas Vice President. Oui heard from others the counterargument that he was not put on that ticket because he was a civil rights activist. He was put on it in a way to grow out the ticket in the views of obama and his leadership team. Where do you come down on that, as joe biden makes what some are calling a last stand in South Carolina . I think for a former Vice President biden, should it be time for him to stand down. He comes from an old guard mentality, an old establishment. Voted for the crime bill. Its just important that he takes a step back for new leadership, for people who want to change the party. And then i guess that raises another question, interestingly. When you go back enough and its something weve reported on a lot on this show. Im not telling you something you havent already discussed in your work, the war on drugs, the incarceration agenda, private prisons, a lot of those, as youve said yourself are bipartisan. Yes. Sanders, for example, also backed some of that in the 90s. What makes your view of him different . Or do you feel that he has moved, changed, evolved . I think he has evolved completely. For example, he came to los angeles to fight alongside of us with justice l. A. And reform l. A. Jails, the work weve been doing to challenge the 3. 5 billion jail planned here. The work to get yes on r on our ballot this march 3rd. So he has transitioned. He has moved and he has really decided that hes going to stand on the right side of history. And the last thing ill ask you, why are double endorsements so popular this cycle . Ive seen newspapers do it too . I think its important because were recognizing that there is a shortterm goal and there is a longterm goal. And given 45 in his administration and what he has done to our country, its time that we try to unite as much as possible around not just one candidate, but around values and how we understand where this country is moving forward. We have another story in the rundown that we are going to get to. So i want to give a special thanks given the work youre doing and learning where your endorsements are head. Black lives matter cofounder patrisse cullors, thank you. Thank you. We turn now back to this breaking news tonight. Harvey weinstein verdict, the jury finding him guilty today on both rape and Sexual Assault charges. Assault charges, many calling it a watershed moment in the metoo movement. That was nor than a decade ago. Thank you for being here tonight. We wanted to get your views on what this means today. Well, thank you for having me. I do think this is a historic day. I think its a really important day. And so many people have so many feelings, including myself, about what we saw happen in the courtroom earlier this morning. When you look at this, how important was it to note that mr. Weinsteins witnesses and accusers didnt feel they could go even to prosecutors, d. A. S, the government . Many first went as discussed, to online as a place to pushback and to journalists, megan tooey, canter and others. We should look at our judicial system. We have narrow laws around Sexual Violence and not a lot of space for people to find accountability within the Justice System so we had to create our own form of accountability through social media and these exposes that came out. When you look at the coverage today, where were you when you heard weinstein was convicted . I was at home. I was at home this morning and got a text message saying the verdict is coming. What did you do then . I turned on msnbc. And then you started hearing, this is one of those days, particularly for people who care about it. You hear he was sitting there, according to the accounts, he said, im innocent. He didnt move. He seemed in shock. Do you think some people were also in shock that this could even happen . Oh, i think that so many of us were in shock. Im sure he was in shock because hes never had to be accountable for his behavior. Hes never had to answer for the ways in which hes misused his power and privilege for the last 20 or 30 years. Im sure its shocking when you have to be faced with the reality of your crimes. Many of us were shocked because on the other side of things, most survivors never get to see the inside of a courtroom. For every 1,000 Sexual Assault cases, 995 of those perpetrators walk away. Most survivors never see what happened. Most of us are used to seeing people walk away from crimes like this. When we report on it and the systemic disparities of justice, when you get a case you normally wouldnt get, there are all these extra things and benefits afforded to the powerful and often to white defendants. Absolutely. What did it mean to you in new york, this d. A. Who others noted earlier in our broadcast, may have been slow to this to begin with. Thats important on the record. But today the d. A. And the judge said, unlike say some of the mueller defendants weve seen, that mr. Weinstein waits in jail to be sentenced, that he is for the first time tonight, Harvey Weinstein spends a night in jail. I think it sends a important message. Regardless 6 your money or your wealth or your race you have to answer and be accountable for the crimes you commit. I think it was important he was remanded. Symbolically for many survivors, particularly survivors, his survivors, seeing him being carted out and handcuffed and knowing hell spend the night and several more nights in jail, hopefully several years after that in jail. So we know they are focused on whats important here and we have some of the things that he with need to sleep well tonight. Im hoping those survivors sleep well tonight knowing that. Final question in this case, weve heard from people that around mr. Weinstein and around the other people who went through this, it was a socalled open secret. It was known, it was discussed. In your work, how skmon is that, that in a Given Community or situation many people do have some inkling of alleged misconduct, and in the past nothings done, will that change . I hope it changes. Some of us are only protected by the whisper system. Dont go in that office, dont be alone with that person. We need this to change. We need open secrets to become open information so that people can be accountable, but also so people can be safe. I hope this is the start of also seeing things like that change. Tawana burke, we appreciate you coming to the beat. Thank you. We need to fit in a break. Gosh, theres a lot going on. One more thing when we come back. Dont get mad. Get e trade, dawg. No no no no no, theres no space there maybe over here . Hot hot oven mitts oven mitts everythings stuck in the drawers im sorry oh, jeez. Hi. Kelly clarkson. Try wayfair oh, ok. Its going to help you, with all of. This yeah, here you go. Thank you oh, i like that one [ laugh ] thats a lot of storage perfect. Youre welcome i love it. How did you do all this . Wayfair speaking of dinner, whatre we eating, guys . Applebees new irresistabowls now starting at 7. 99. Now thats eatin good in the neighborhood. announcer winning awards is great. But doing all the work that takes you there . Thats the hard part. 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If elected president , trust me, you are not going to be interfering in american elections. Not only very different tone than President Trump obviously, but also a reflection that sanders now confirms he was briefed by intelligence officials about russian meddling, suggesting that its been going on for a while. Thats one update. Ill be back here at 6 00 p. M. Eastern tomorrow. Hardball is up next. To bernie or not to bernie . Lets play hardball. Good evening, im Chris Mathews back in washington. Vermont senator Bernie Sanders has big momentum now after a commanding win in saturdays nevada caucus. Now with just five days until the South Carolina primary, sanders is looking to build an even bigger lead as the race heads to super tuesday, a week from tomorrow. While his moderate rivals try to elbow each