Pulling out of a court fight, caving on this suit that was about donald trump himself and basically will try to follow his boss orders and not testify. If this sounds familiar, yes, it is classic mulvaney. He moves around a lot. Apparently he was looking for cover, trying to join john boltons lawsuit. I did a breakdown of that last night. He pulled out of that, filing his own suit, essentially asking a judge to tell him whether to testify against his boss, trump. If that was not enough people can judge whether mr. Mulvaneys public problems are helping or hurting donald trump. Now hes tapping out and claiming he has absolute immunity. If you really have it, you wouldnt be filing all those motions to begin with. Mulvaneys lawyers say, quote, they will rely on the direction of the president. Here is what we have. Mulvaney, clearly concerned about what he will say to defend trump and whether he has his own exposure. Trumps inner circle worried about who will go to the mat for the president as this evidence continues to pile up. Nbc news reporting that john bolton was trashing trumps policy saying his personal or business relationships were dictating the president s position on a whole different country, on turkey. That matters if part of the impeachment case is about donald trump abusing Foreign Policy powers to enrich or help himself politically. Those comments obviously magnified with bolton waiting on whether or how he will testify. He has reportedly referred to the entire ukraine bribery plot as, quote, a drug deal. He also has a book deal. Also hes potentially a key witness in these public hearings that begin tomorrow. Even without bolton this impeachment investigation has shown clear cracks in trumps case. Does he know that . Let me show you new reporting on how its playing. New york times, trump is considering firing the Inspector General who initially deemed the whistleblower complaint urgent and credible. More officials lining up, providing the facts and the evidence to support the allegation that there was quid pro quo bribery. Consider state Department Official laura cooper, added to the list weve been keeping here of people who have alleged facts to support bribery. Meanwhile two other officials have confirmed the plot, offici. They are expected to lay it out in the public hearings tomorrow. That will be new. Republicans . Well, here is their response with hours to go. Selection of basically a lengthy memo. A new talking point that the money that ultimately went to ukraine means maybe there was no plot. If they got the money they wanted. Donald trump basically saying, well, if there was an attempted plot but they ultimately got the money, maybe no harm, no foul. Breaking news as well as i was walking out on to the set. Adam schiff has just spoken, obviously the point person for the democrats on impeachment. He has said something about what tomorrows public hearings may look like, so this is new. Bribery, mr. Schiff says, is what the founders understood, not just what is understood in the light of day. We just got the sound, im being told. This is adam schiff. Think about the context, teeing up the arguments that are going to form the foundation of tomorrows public hearings, bringing in the bribery word as a way to impeach the president. Lets listen in. First of all, as the founders understood bribery, it was not as we understand it in law today. It was much broader. It connoted the breach of the public trust in a way where youre offering official acts for some personal or political reason, not in the nations interest. I want to bring in heather mcgee, senior fellow, nick ackerman, former watergate prosecutor. Good evening to both of you. Good evening. Nick i start with you here. I apologize for making you do such live, breaking news but we were literally scrambling to get thats okay. The actual audiotape. We had the written part. Close viewers of this on the beat have heard us report on this. A lot of people are tuning in, saying what is the impeachment all about . Mr. Schiff saying it is fundamentally, quote, about donald trump offering official acts for a personal or political reason. What is the importance of him discussing impeachable bribery tonight . Bribery is explicitly mentioned in the constitution as an impeachable offense. Clearly what we have is bribery, under any context, bribery is bribery. Even if you take the statute thats on the books today, it still comes within the bribery definition. The quid pro quo has to be done with a corrupt intent. Corrupt intent is an improper purpose. When you start going out taking 400 million thats appropriated by congress to defend the ukraine and then you hold back a visit to the white house that the ukrainians need in order to give them the posture that they want against the russians, not to mention the funds they need to defend themselves against the russians and you demand in return that you investigate your chief political rival, that is classic bribery. And this seems to go to the republican defense, which i mention and which well cover more in the hour. Its very important to look at the defenses. It seems that chairman schiff is outlining a theory of the case for tomorrow. He didnt say this a month ago. And he didnt wait until after the public hearings. Today on the eve of the public hearings, the founders had a broad view of bribery. Republicans say maybe ultimately we didnt hold up the funds. I ask you, is that a valid, factual defense . Absolutely not. An attempted bribery is the same as bribery. In fact, what the facts do show is that but for the fact that certain people in congress, both republicans and democrats, prevailed on the white house to release those funds, not knowing what was going on behind the scenes with Rudy Giuliani and the rest of the crowd that was trying to get this quid pro quo for investigating the bidens, that money was released. It was only by coincidence. Had they waited a couple of more days, it would have been effective. This was a classic attempt at bribery, no matter how you define it. You are a Watergate Special prosecutor. You have the unique experience of what it means to investigate a president. Before i turn to heather, where do you view chairman schiffs strategy tonight focusing on bribery . I give it an a plus. This is the part of their opening gam by the. This is phase three of this whole impeachment proceeding, starting off with the closed hearings. People got a little bit of information. Second fais phase was the release of the transcripts. People got to really see what this was all about. Tomorrow is it. This is game time, show time. We are actually going to hear from the witnesses. Youre going to get a real feel for how they felt at the time, what they saw, what they heard trump say during this phone call. Youve got ambassador taylor who has very meticulous notes that he kept of all of his conversations. This is like the nixon tapes all over again. Heather mcgee, i turn to you. Nick ackerman has handled a lot of the law. I turn to you, as we often do, as a broader voice, your view of what it means for the democrats to be unveiling some of their argument as they go into these hearings tomorrow and big picture, as i mentioned, folks living lives, busy, what does it mean to have impeachment hearings start tomorrow . Tomorrow, history will be made. It is a very big day. I want to make sure were judging it not just with the television optics. I think we made that mistake with the mueller testimony but rather making the very plain case, as i think the democrats have actually done a very good job of so far, of doing exactly what mr. Ackerman just said, laying out the fact that donald trump pressured a Foreign Government to do something that would be in his personal and political interest and used the office of the presidency, the office of the purse of the congress and in many ways our Foreign Policy and National Security to do so. Thats got to connect back to americans lives. I sat there watching on monday, donald trump in my town in new york city at the veterans day parade, someone who decided to use any excuse he could not to go into service when he could stand there and laud the service of veterans. At the same time, he absolutely has been corrupting our National Security policy for his own ends, personally, financially and politically. Youve got to make those connections. To say its not just hes a bad guy. Kind of everyone knows hes corrupt. It comes home to roost, right . He is putting our brothers and sisters in arms in danger by warping our National Security policy for his own ends. Think about what happened in syria right after all of this came out. It is very much connected. His ability to just turn a blind eye to whats in the best National Interest for whatever person is in his ear, talking about how he can personally gain, thats a threat to our National Security. You mentioned National Interest. We cited the reporting about john bolton raising flags with other countries. We do not know how much any of this investigation about Donald Trumps potential abuse of the powers of the presidency to help him win reelection could overlap with the secrets in the famously hidden tax returns where theres questions about whether there are business interests compromised here. If someone is willing, according to the democrats argument, seek a bribe for the personal, political interests, they may do that for their personal enrichment. I wonder how that all fits in. One thing we try to avoid around here is predictions. We dont know whats going to happen. Its interesting look at the new york times, something that people might not have predicted six months ago, which is the level of high, high senior officials infighting. I mentioned what i call the full mulvaney, does something to contradict himself and then tells you that didnt happen. Post reporting here, mulvaneys office blames white House Counsel to stop other officials from not participating in impeachment inquiry. That has only made matters worse with his october 17th News Conference when he publicly acknowledged quid pro quo, bribery. Heath heather, take your pick on analyzing any of that. You know, i think that mulvaney has been one of those figures that will be studied in case studies, personnel case studies. He has held, you know, 87 roles in the administration now, i think . He has held so many roles in the administration and left a wake, a wave of corruption in his wake at every single one of them, whether its the Consumer Financial protection bureau, the budget. This is the last straw. The fact that he has been really at the center, mulvaney on the official side, giuliani on the personal side of this web of corruption around ukraine and that he wasnt even duplicitous enough to lie about it on national television, you know, in some ways i almost feel badly for him. In fairness, heather yeah . After he told the truth he lied about his truthful confession. Thats right. Thats right. In fairness, he did cover both bases. I really like the full mulvaney. Im going to see if i can use that. I almost feel badly for him because he is like one of the many republicans who, right now, is really trapped in trying to figure out as more and more details are unfolding exactly what the republican line is going to be. First it was no quid pro quo. Then quid pro quo is not a problem. Now its trying to chase around a process. Then its going to be bribery, once the democrats to making that argument, saying bribery is not a crime somehow. Its difficult. Facts are pretty plain and simple. Somehow the Trump Administration has continued to have their own goals, releasing the transcripts as if they were exonerating somehow. I think its great weve had so many members of our public service, hello, come out and actually follow the law and follow their subpoenas. And go in and testify. Give their accounts that have built the evidence of bribery. Schiff said tonight its all about, quote, abusing official powers. Founders were obviously worried about bribery. As you both know, bribery is an archaic word for the swamp. This is a swamp they were trying to clean up. You cant go to washington and sell your office. Thats the first thing youre literally forbidden to do. Always good to see you. Nick ackerman, stick around. We may have more breaking news for you. Tonight a special report to set up some of the issues in tomorrows impeachment hearings, including new reporting on the roots of Rudy Giulianis Conspiracy Theory. Everything you need to know for what i bet youll be watching, at least partly tomorrow, hearings we havent seen in a generation. And last day of testimony in the roger stone case with new questions about whether donald trump lied to mueller. All of that and exclusive guest who had the front row seat in the last impeachment. Its a big show. Im ari melber. Youre watching the beat on msnbc. Youre watching the beat msnbc. Then i realized something was missing. Me. My symptoms were keeping me from being there. 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Sales guy, give em the employee price, then gimme your foot. Handsfree sliding doors, stow n go seats, man, yall getting a hook up and yall dont even work here. Pacificaaaaa cause no matter how far away for you roam. Ys. When you pine for the sunshine of a friendly gaze. For the holidays you cant beat home sweet home. The United StatesPostal Service goes the extra mile to bring your holidays home. Tailored recommendations, taxefficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor to help you grow and protect your wealth. Fidelity wealth management. Tonight drchs officially closer to impeachment than ever on the eefb of these public hearings, which will probe into the scandal that has paralyzed his presidency for now. We start with a question, how did we get here . The answer begins with a country that was rarely in the news. When the first reports of the whistleblower emerged in the Washington Post long before we ever saw that complaint, we were all waiting and wondering, and trying to figure out what does this all have to do with ukraine . By far, the biggest news of the day, which is this whistleblower story, which is now going officially nuts. Shane harris of the Washington Post is reporting that the whistleblower complaint has something to do with ukraine. Something to do with ukraine. What would be scandalous about ukraine policy . Most people had not heard enough about trumps policies toward that country to even guess at the time. If you were learning about this story from the Washington Post, the times or most National News in september when rachel was reporting that out, it was all new. If you happen to read conservative articles in the portion of the hill, you would see the seeds of this trumpian Conspiracy Theory. Headline quoting officials unsuppo unsupported that ukraine avoided prosecuting certain people. Another from april in the same basic format, single ukrainian source claiming the u. S. Didnt want evidence on democrats. Now you can see where this is going. Again, this was back in april, before any of this blew up. But around that same time here is the cherry on top of this Conspiracy Theory sundae. Quote, joe bidens 2020 ukrainian nightmare, a closed probe is revived. The second part of that clause, this is back in april, is just not a thing yet. Closed probe revived hadnt happened. America at that time in april was waiting for the release of the mueller report, three weeks away. This writer for the hill was speculating about this biden nightmare that virtually no one was losing sleep over. Its important to what will happen tomorrow. At that point there was no way to distinguish this from thousands of other headlines. Those all have something crucial in common, john solomon, conservative writer, analyst at fox news and has listenings to top conservative operatives. Colombia journalism review says he has a history of bending the truth and distorting facts. You should know that up front. If you havent heard much about solomon, you may be about to hear a lot more about him in the impeachment hearings. Mr. Solomon and President Trump had the same taste in lawyers, solomon hired joe degenova, a lawyer that trump tried to hire. Like lawyers that trump favors these days he does more than litigate, pushes political agendas, goes on fox news where he dramatically previewed his disturbing material that would come from his client solomon. Theres very disturbing details that are about to come out in reporting by john solomon and i think once those details come out i think there will have to be a fullfledged criminal investigation. Wow, full fledged. Sounds like he has the inside scoop on what his own client is writing. Fox news segment was touting the piece i just mentioned that oh, so understated headline that reads like info wars fan fiction, the one about the ukrainian nightmare and reviving of a probe. Step one, have your lawyer hype the piece on hanity, like theres independent interest in it. Step two, go on hannity yourself. John solomon citing his sources for this then obscure story. The story behind the story. Investigative reporter john solomon is with us. Theres a pattern of hunter biden being in the countries where the Vice President has a Foreign Policy portfolio and somehow walking off with some nice pay dates. Theyre telling me tonight, sean, theyve been trying to get this information to the u. S. Justice department for more than six months. Well, if there was a u. S. Government conspiracy by the Justice Department or state department, that would sound bad, right . But, of course, that last six months would implicate the Trump Administration, degenova and hannity support trump, obviously. Top people involve all say what you just heard from sol mon is false. His angle has been backfiring in two ways. One as a political Propaganda Mission to help trump, bringing trump closer to impeachment than ever. Two, as a Conspiracy Theory, ukraine allegation got really big, too big and blew up in solomons face, sparking an investigation that has publicly shredded his claims. Original whistleblower complaint says in march 2019, these series of articles in the hill, quoting several ukrainian officials, citing solomons work. Thats part of what got trump in so much hot water. Trump officials and diplomats who fact checked solomon again. We only know about this because it back fired because of the probe. Now i can tell you three different officials who served in the Trump Administration say when it came to solomons ukraine writing all the key elements were false. Another one saying solomon pedales baseless conspiracy theories. Another, diplomat george kent, who well hear from tomorrow, was blasting his fabrications as utter nonsense. Thats testimony from people speaking under oath under the threat of perjury, legally. Obviously that carries more weight and potentially more legal peril than what you say in a sean hannity segment. So thats a lie. Where are we going . Well, i began this report with a question. How did we get here . To paraphrase the talking heads, david burn, you may find yourself in another part of the world and you may ask yourself, well, how did i get here . Thats what we all want to know. We got to this other part of the world because of this plot, a plot that began with this serious information propaganda and was super sized and weaponized, this is important, by the current president , by his top advisers and was allegedly deployed through the arm and power of the u. S. Government. Thats a big deal. Democrats say its an impeachably big deal. Look back in march who donald trump was retweeting, solomon theory, citing fox news while giuliani literally traveled around the world trying to will solomons theory into reality. Giuliani may not expect ukraine to ever, what, indict the Vice President or his family, former Vice President , but weaponizing propaganda isnt about facts. Its about impact. Try to get the talk of the investigation going. Maybe spark an actual investigation. Ukraine was close to doing that when the money was finally unfrozen. Giuliani tries to add more smoke, innuendo to the bidens which did, of course, draw them out on defense. You have to see how this works to innoculate the situation. We know the phrase shoot first, ask questions later. This is how the plot worked smear first, ask questions later, gin up a process to delegitimize that original smear, doj investigating the original investigators or trying to get a foreign country to investigate the case. The later action tries to trick you into thinking that the original outlandish theory has become more substantiated by external events, by the smoke. Thats why im about to show you something really interesting, its vital to trump and giuliani that solomon ultimately be taken seriously, which is why you have giulianis ridiculous calls for solomon to win journalism awards. The ukrainians brought me substantial evidence of ukrainian collusion with Hillary Clinton, the dnc, george soros. John solomon, who should get a pulitzer prize, by the way. So many great people. John solomon should get a pullityer prize. If you havent heard that before you see how that matters to this impeachment probe. John solomon should get the pulitzer prize, teed up to fox news and maga fans. Look at this. They directly contacted hannitys show tollegations wer and suggested that hannity stop covering them but he kept putting solomon on air for his breathless dispatches. Ukrainian Law Enforcement officials saying yes, we did try to tip the 2016 election in favor of Hillary Clinton. Joe biden thwarted an investigation. Youre going to hear from the ukrainian embassy. In my possession i have documents from the ukraine general prosecutors office. They want to interview was hunter biden specifically about 3 million. Promised lots of scoop and dirt and sources and has a First Amendment right to say and write and speculate on what he wants. As this thing has blown up in the faces of these trump allies, americans and impeachment investigators are seeing solomons work and some of his spourss exposed. One source and collaborator indicted giuliani affiliate lev parnas. Diplomats warning parnas was trying to subvert our democracy, he is now cooperating with impeachment investigators. The hill has caught heat by publishing so many pieces of opinion by solomon, just as it caught heat by publishing an opinion piece by Michael Flynn for undisclosed lobbying. The hill has updated that piece on their website given that controversy. Solomon articles stand the way they are. We asked for comment and they declined to comment on the record and told thaws solomon no longer works for the hill. Website reportedly close to giving giuliani a podcast deal. And then after all those hannity appearances, solomon has formally be hired by fox news as a contributor, which is handy. After the trump ukraine scandal was exposed solomon abruptly left his perch at the hill. National security site, adding that fox news provides a place where solomon can deploy, quote, misleading image of an Investigative Reporter while maintaining radio silence about the details of his own convoluted role in all of this. That article scrutinizing solomons role which we relied upon partly, that was written by sydney blumenthal who knows his way around impeachment probes, former witness in the starr probe, Senior Adviser to clinton in the white house. He is here for the first time on the beat. I have a lot of questions when were back live in 30 seconds. Wn were back live in 30 seconds. A, and better ways to age gracefully. At bayer, this is why we science. Tailored recommendations, taxefficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor to help you grow and protect your wealth. Fidelity wealth management. Welcome back. Join i joining us now sydney blumenthal. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. How do they highlight u. S. Foreign policy . John solomons work, which laid out the beginnings of what has now become an impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump was not journalism. It was an essential part of a disinformation operation. It was false information put out as propaganda to create a certain political outcome. And thats why it was put out. Theres a good deal we dont know about it. We have not gotten to the bottom of the sources of it. We have not gotten to the bottom of the money behind it. We certainly see that john solomon is in the middle of this giuliani gang, and he has many connections to it. Lev parnas, giulianis associate, was hired by solomon as a, quote, translator. Parnas also was hired by solomons lawyers, joe degenova as a, quote, translator working for another client of theirs, who was, we now know, one of the sources of his material, dmitry fertosh, ukrainian oligarch, closely tied to Vladimir Putin and rush russian mafia, under indictment for corruption in the United States and is fighting extradition. Sidney, any one of those things sounds bad. You just named like five bad things. Your reporting lays it out. What are people to take away from all of this suspicious smoke and the message coordination that you wrote about that we just showed where fox and trump and Everyone Wants to build this person up as if theyre an awardwinning journalist when what youre arguing is theyre associated with indicted individuals and foreign money, to some degree. And the hill has previously gotten caught publishing material that was secretly funded to the degree that mueller was investigating it as breaking foreign lobbying laws, where does it all land from here . We need to get to you know, unpack each of the dolls and john solomon, when we look at his work, we see giuliani with whom he had a business deal, was trying to develop one, and with whom he is working hand in glove. And giuliani sent his bogus articles to secretary of state mike pompeo. Right. In order to fire u. S. Ambassador marie yovanovitch. And that was a very deliberate disinformation operation on solomons part. Let me ask you this. So many details there are, but do you think theyre fundamentally good at this because they got this far or fundamentally bad at it because it blew up and became basically the road to trumps impeachment . Well, they got tripped up by the professionals on the inside who, you know, understood that this was a violation of u. S. National security, and they went to one of their own, who is the whistleblower, who wrote it up. And its only because of that that we know about this. Otherwise, this may well have been successful. Trump himself is trying to replicate what he did with Hillary Clinton in 2016 and the emails. Right. Thats such an important point i want to slow down on. They learned with the emails, it was not about Hillary Clinton actually getting indicted, right . It wasnt about that. It was about having enough smoke endlessly that even reasonable people, not the core hannity audience, and you know this from the history of american politics, i heard so many bad things, it sounds like theres something there. Trump had identified joe biden as his likely opponent, as the democratic frontrunner and most formidable adversary, the former Vice President , and he wanted to develop something that was the functional equivalent of how the emails worked against Hillary Clinton in 2016. Thats interesting, sidney. Not a lot of people connect this directly to emails. It may be obvious to you because you write about it and youre a bright guy. Thats not what weve heard. Biden is emails 2. 0. This is think about it as a political tactic, as a strategy. Trump felt that it worked before. Right. He has taken some of the material that was developed in the first case, in the Hillary Clinton case and then worked at it. And john solomon has been involved in that. Sidney, before i let you go, im going to play oldschool blumenthal. Here you were, as a witness among other things. Take a look. Did the president then give you his account of what happened between him and Monica Lewinsky . As i recall, he did. What did the president tell you . He spoke fairly rapidly, as i recall, at that point, and said that she had come on to him. Can you describe for us the president s demeanor when he shared this information with you . Yes. He was very upset. I thought he was bad at english. Big picture, as someone who has been through a white house when theres been a criminal probe and impeachment, different factual allegations, but what do you see in todays battles at the white house when we see mulvaney and the lawyers fighting, we see bolton looking to testify, what jumps out to you, big picture given the unique experience you have . Well, one point that i would make is that i was a Senior Adviser to president clinton. My title was assistant to the president. And i fully cooperated and testified truthfully before the impeachment trial. And i cooperated as well with the independent counsel. And so did many other people in the white house, including the chief of staff, john podesta. And today i see that members of the white house staff and the administration are not cooperating. And i urge them to cooperate and to testify truthfully. What message do you think it sends on the issue of this National Security import when they wont go tell their story to congress . Its an obvious message that they have something to hide. And theres more that there is to learn about this. They know that they are shielding from the public, and they ought to testify. Sidney blumenthal for the reasons mentioned, quite a unique guest. Hope you will come back to the beat. Your book all the powers of earth political life of abraham lincoln, another president you know something about. Thanks to you. Did donald trump lie to mueller . Did Donald TrumpsJustice Department just prove that in open court . New testimony in the roger stone case. Well get into it. Breaking story tonight. Up next, we return to chairman schiff laying out the public argument for how they want to impeach donald trump. Its bribery. Impeach donald trump its bribery about 50 of people with severe asthma have too many cells called eosinophils in their lungs. Eosinophils are a key cause of severe asthma. Fasenra is designed to target and remove these cells. Fasenra is an addon injection for people 12 and up with asthma driven by eosinophils. Fasenra is not a rescue medicine or for other eosinophilic conditions. Fasenra is proven to help prevent severe asthma attacks, improve breathing, and can lower oral steroid use. Fasenra may cause allergic reactions. Get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth, and tongue, or trouble breathing. Dont stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. Tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens. Headache and sore throat may occur. Havent you missed enough . Ask an asthma specialist about fasenra. If you cant afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. Its an honor to tell you that [ applause ] thank you. Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. I love you only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Wow giving one. How did you guys. . Dont ask. The lexus december to rembember sales event get 0 percent apr for 60 months on all 2019 models. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. We are back with nick ackerman, watergate prosecutor, hours way from the first televised impeachment hearings with President Trump. The Intelligence Committee chairman adam schiff making way tonight for anyone who cares about this, rattling the white house, previewing of whats going to happen on a strategy for tomorrows hearing with a new focus on bribery. First of all as the founders understood bribery, it was not, as we understand it in law today. It was much broader. It connoted the breach of the public trust in a way where youre offering official acts for some personal or political reason, no the nations interest. Nick ackerman joins me now. This is striking, because it previews the hearing tomorrow. Right. What does it mean in your view as as prosecutor who has led this fact finding in a president that schiff is saying this is one theory of the case before the questions begin tomorrow. I think he wants to put this in context so when the public hears this testimony theyll understand with where each piece of evidence fits into the entire picture. I think youll see this evidence is going to go back. Its not just going to start with that phone call in july where donald trump spoke to zelensky. Theyre going to put in proof that goes back prior to zelensky being voted in as the new president. Theyre going to put in the efforts they made with the former president , to try to get him to open an investigation into the bidens and into this crazy theory about the ewe kraen being the focus of the attack on the Democratic National committee. It takes a number of witnesses to put together this entire story, including the documents that corroborate people. Taylor will come in with all kinds of notes and books that he will be able to use. Right. He only came into the picture at a short time. When we think about the hearings, including what people witnessed in the mueller hearings, including bob muellers testimony, ultimately corey lewandowski, there was much more about process and obstruction than the underlying issue, which was alleged potential collusion and conspiracy. Im not minimizing, nor would you, obstruction. Do you see what chairman schiff is doing tonight, whether or not obstruction was an article of impeachment . It wont be the first nor the most important. No, not at all. The most important will be that this president engaged in a systematic pattern of bribery that started long before president zelensky was elected and continued right up until the time he was forced to give up that money to ukraine in order that they could use it to buy the weapons that they needed. Were almost out of time. Based on the public evidence, where do you stand compared to the public evidence against nixon when those hearings began . This is completely different. Its actually a dynamic case. They have excellent evidence, great witnesses, credible witnesses, smart witnesses and lots of corroboration. Do you have time for a quick, lighthearted, absurd question . Absolutely. Did president nixons chief of staff ever confess at a National Press conference and then take it back . No. But this was donald trump making his chief of staff do that. Right. And legally, there are no backsies, right . You cant take it back. When you say i robbed a bank and youre brought into trial to say it was a joke. I didnt really mean it, that doesnt count. Nick ackerman, we appreciate your clarity and your experience. Weve had a lot of experienced people on tonight. Now were better for it. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate you. Up ahead, rick gates taking the stand, did you hear about this, against trump adviser roger stone. Also, republicans have their own bribery defense. What you need to know. Weve got a lot more coming up. Weve got a lot more coming up , as well as all the things you want to do. Because when youre ready for what comes next, the only direction is forward. Janie, come here. Check this out. Let me see. She looks. Kind of like me. Yeah. Thats because its your grandma when she was your age. Oh wow. Thats. Thats amazing. Oh and she was on the debate team. Yeah, thats probably why youre the debate queen. Mmhmm. Ill take that. Look at that smile. I have the same dimples as her. Yeah. The same placements and everything. Unbelievable. The same placements and everything. I have moderate to severe pnow, theres skyrizi. Things are getting clearer, yeah i feel free to bare my skin yeah thats all me. Nothing and me go hand in hand nothing on my skin thats my new plan. Nothing is everything. Keep your skin clearer with skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90 clearer skin at 4 months. Of those, nearly 9 out of 10 sustained it through 1 year. And skyrizi is 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. I see nothing in a different way and its my moment so i just gotta say nothing is everything skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. Before treatment your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms such as fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or coughs, or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. Nothing is everything ask your dermatologist about skyrizi. Steven could only imaginem 24hr to trenjoying a spicy taco. Burn, now, his world explodes with flavor. Nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for allday allnight protection. Can you imagine 24hours without heartburn . Were back with even more news were only getting to right now. I mentioned the republicans releasing a new 18page document the most basically sweeping set of defenses of trump weve ever seen. One, they say in this new defense the republicans argue the july 25th call summary and basically the best evidence of the entire conversation that happened with ukraine, and they argue it doesnt show the kind of pressure youd need for extortion or bribery. And let me show you number two, if we have this republicans arguing both sides have said there was no pressure on the call. Although other evidence has pointed in another direction. Remember trump donor and ambassador sondland had to revise his testimony ultimately to explain he thought there was pressure. Point three in this memo the Ukrainian Government the republicans say was not aware the u. S. Money was ever frozen. We might hear more about that including tomorrow, no matter what went down ult amtally the money was released. And the u. S. Money flowed to ukraine september 19th and republicans say ukraine never formally investigated the bidens. Again, part of a new factual defense which you note is different from the more sweeping defenses weve had from the white house. Lets get more into it now. How are you doing . Im good. This is a more specific and more factual defense from House Republicans than what weve heard from Donald Trumps team himself. Thats right. So they are trying to figure out how to lay out before things go on what theyre supposed to say, which is that the call wasnt b bad. The aid was suspended but nobody knew the aid was suspended. Nothing happened, no harm, nfoe foul, its ridiculous. Which is different than my call was perfect, fall back. It echoes my call was perfect. They were kidding, the tone was friendly, trump said, look, i want to, you know, do me a favor and he wasnt even talking about biden. He was talking about 2016 election interference, which is continues the line. What i was struck by here is the way in which this entire document, this 18page document says and you know what, everything is good. Trump has a long history of concern about corruption in ukraine. We have that. We have that. Quote, the body of evidence republicans argue today, shows trump holds a quote deepseated genuine and recent skepticism of ukraine due to its corruption. That ones very weak. So what this whole thing is i think is laying out a series of serious efforts to sort of address the points beforehand. I suspect i know you dont like prediction, but im going to make a prediction. It may not be tomorrow but some time during this public process, that there will be a stunt that republicans are going to pull a stunt. They want to delegitimize these hearings. They do not want to act as though the lahearings are legitimate or purposeful. And one of the ways they may do that is take a page and do something to make a mockery of the proceedings. We saw a little hint of that when Cory Lewandowski testified before the House Judiciary Committee ive never heard jim jordan suggested there you go. When what you want to do is literally make a choice to make a mockery of the proceedings, it would be a risky maneuver with, you know, nationally televised hearings, all the networks shutoff by showing it. But they want to they want to make it clear that they think that this proceeding is illegitimate. And the best way to do that is to behave quietly thats why were covering this. This 18page memo is a serious reckoning. John as always thanks for being here. Weve got one more thing when we come back. Here weve got one more thing when we come back. Those darn seatbelts got me all crumpled up. Thats ok hey, guys hi mrs. Patterson. Wrinkles send the wrong message. Sorry. Help prevent them before they start with new downy wrinkleguard. Thats better. So you wont get caught with wrinkles again. cause no matter how far away for you roam. Ys. When you pine for the sunshine of a friendly gaze. For the holidays you cant beat home sweet home. The United StatesPostal Service goes the extra mile to bring your holidays home. We make aspirin to help save lives during a heart attack. So it never stops the heart of a family. Im about to capture proof of the ivory billed woodpecker. What . . . No, no no no no. Battery power runs out. Lifetime Retirement Income from tiaa doesnt. Guaranteed monthly income for life. Nooooo guaranteed monthly income for life. Most people think of verizon as a reliable phone company. woman but to businesses, were a reliable partner. We Keep Companies ready for whats next. man we weave security into their business. Virtualize their operations. woman and build ai customer experiences. We also keep them ready for the next big opportunity. Like 5g. Almost all the fortune 500 partner with us. woman when it comes to digital transformation. Verizon keeps business ready. Rather than worry about how to pay for longterm care. It protects your family while providing longterm care coverage, should you need it. So you can explore all the Amazing Things ahead. Talk to your advisor about brighthouse smartcare. Brighthouse financial. Build for whats ahead℠ testimony of the roger stone trial is coming out today and has new information thats casting doubts on his own sworn stoimts. Rick gates told the campaign about wikileaks information coming on Hillary Clinton months before the it became public and gates detailing how trump himself was allegedly on a stone with wikileaks. Remember trump said he didnt know anything like that raising questions whether that at the time was a deliberate lie. Ill be back at 6 00 p. M. Eastern tomorrow. And tonight if youre around ill be filling in for Lawrence Odonnell at 10 00 p. M. Eastern with a lot of news tonight. Dont go anywhere. Hardball is up next. Show time. Lets play hardball. Er good evening. Im Chris Matthews in washington. 15 hours from now the American People will for the first time hear the full case for impeaching President Donald Trump. Tomorrow morning at 10 00 eastern the house Intelligence Committee begins the first public hearings of the impeachment