And as he ignores the subpoena and faces new criminal scrutiny from prosecutors in new york, giuliani has also revealed at this point in time he does not have a lawyer of his own. He said simply no one is representing him. The legal stakes clearly rising for this lawyer and former prosecutor at the center of the ukraine scandal. Giuliani has faced a devastating series of revelations from other impeachment witnesses, some of who were the people he was trying to strong arm for this alleged shadow Foreign Policy. Today a diplomat named george kent testifying behind closed doors reportedly revealing that he also raised concerns about giulianis ukrainian pressure scheme months ago. This new testimony adds another block here. It adds more incriminating information about what giuliani was doing and it comes after one day after another impeachment witness, another trump aide in the administration testified about the pushback from ousted National Security adviser john bolton. Now, he, whatever you think of all his ideology, he is according to these other impeachment witnesses, on record as trying to get in front and oppose what he viewed as giulianis criminal plot. I want to read this. Let this sink in. This is the new testimony, that bolton apparently said, quote, im not part of whatever drug deal sondland and mulvaney are cooking up. This is not breaking bad, this is real life. Mr. Bolton, a very accomplished lawyer in addition to his other training, knew what was going on. He had a view of it. He wanted to warn the white house in no Uncertain Terms he viewed this as criminal and as a lawyer speaking to lawyers and nonlawyers, he called it a drug deal so he couldnt be misinterpreted. And thats not all. Were learning from this new witness that mr. Bolton also warned, quote, giuliani is a hand grenade who is going to blow everybody up. Bolton told the witness to report her concerns to a top lawyer at the National Security council, which she reportedly did. What do you have here taken together . It is a very incriminating picture of people who are actively working for donald trump, who are most days showing up to work trying to get his agenda enacted, supporting him. Theyre inside the Trump Administration and inside the white house, and theyre the ones blowing the whistle. Theyre the ones trying to say giuliani is pursuing a, quote, drug deal. Giuliani is a walking hand grenade. This is not normal stuff. And i can tell you something else, by the end of the week, a half a dozen people will have stepped up and testified in this impeachment probe. Democrats saying theyre getting critical evidence. We are learning new and Important Information in the impeachment inquiry. Have you heard evidence to this point that would support articles of impeachment against this president . Yes, jim, we have. Solicitation alone is a criminal act. Thats what the president did. It is shown right there in the transcript. Its not just a smoking gun. Its the actual bullet. That is what were hearing, and then you have this. What you see on your screen is live news. Its going to happen during this hour. Speaker pelosi in a late in the day announcement that she is coming forward after her meeting with her own caucus about impeaching trump and where the road is from here. Shes going to Say Something from the podium youre looking at. And we will bring it to you. A lot of people interested, some people afraid. Im joined now by former prosecutor rossi. Criminal defense attorney who represented mr. Papadopoulos in the muler probe and records professor brittany cooper. Good evening, everyone. Gene, hand grenade, cooking, not your typical congressional testimony, not your typical testimony in trials that try to prove drug deals. What did you make of the stark language from mr. Bolton, an Ivy League Educated lawyer, among other things . He nailed that really well. July 10 is going to be almost as important as july 25th, ari, because john bolton, whose views i dont always agree with. He had the innate sense to understand that something rotten was occurring in denmark. And we make fun of it was a drug deal. It wasnt a drug deal. It was a deal of the president putting his personal interests and his electoral chances over the welfare of the United States of america. And just to be clear, and then ill go back to you, i think and im curious of your analysis. I think what mr. Bolton was trying to do in no Uncertain Terms n a world where every time the president asks for foreign collusion its later dismissed as a joke. Was not having a high level discussion about whether this may violate a law, but say this is over the line and a conspiracy and drug deal is something anyone can understand, get away from the drug deal theyre cooking. He saw a conspiracy and a conspiracy allegedly existed between the president , giuliani, these two other people, igor, she sound like characters. Ive got to tell you, this case wreaks of an Impeachable Offense. And the congressman who just said solicitation is the crime. A quid pro quo, you only need quid. And he held up 400 million to ukraine, 10 of their defense budget. And they were pleading with us for help against the russians and trump tried to use it like a carrot. Brittany, we have sat at this table before and talked about the things donald trump does, and hes criticized for many. I would observe that donald trump merits the criticism for many things. Yes. But merits impeachment for very few. And i think thats what the founders intended. Many terrible things that politicians can do are not what the founders defined as impeachable. Here we are bumping up against one that the Congress Says may indeed be impeachable. That it is not only reprehensible or objectable or derogatory or discriminatory, but that it is the kind of abuse of power, or as gene was discussing, bribe, one of the enumerated constitutional offenses for impeachment. Thinking about that, i want to play for you text tillerson who has been around the block. Hes been up to the line. Lets be real. But he said he was getting all kinds of orders to go over the line. Take a look. When the president would say heres what i want to do and heres how i want to do it, and i would have to say to him, mr. President , i understand what you want to do, but you cant do it that way. It violates the law, it violates the treaty. He got really frustrated. He didnt just get frustrated, he oufts people who dont go along. And what does that say to you about the testimony today which quotes mr. Bolton, who also is out . What im sitting here thinking is Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall. But the other point of this is that its quite basic. We tell children dont lie, we tell children dont cheat, and we have a president who doesnt have morality of a 5yearold and thinks its fine to engage in a shake do you know and to basically use the white house and the power of the u. S. Presidency to run a Crime Syndicate and then try to strongarm anyone who doesnt want to go along. What is more stocking is that most of the men around the president are a cast of shady characters. And at the point that the shady characters start to say this is too far, then all of us should recognize that our hair is literally on fire at this point and that he has to go. What i appreciate that the democrats have done in this moment, is they have seized on what is a simple narrative. You cannot use foreign interference to win an election. Why we didnt know that in 2015, 2016, 2017 is a thing that im inclined not to be generous about. Let me press you on that, though. One difference with 2016 is the evidence we have, and ive read the Mueller Report twice and your client was in it. You know the Mueller Report well. The evidence suggested that russia was coming into the u. S. That they were starting it. Doesnt mean you could get their help, but thats where it started. And one difference democrats are pointing to is now its the sitting president and the plot is not coming from russia. The plot is coming from inside the white house. Look, i think its a distinction without a difference. You do . Yeah, but well take it. This is a man who stood at a podium and said bring me the emails, hack the emails and bring them to me. He was inviting them to interfere and we gave him a pass. Now we have seen him be entirely consistent with what he said. He incident have the u. S. s best interest at heart when he ran for the presidency. He has continued to ruin our foreign interests around the globe. Hes totally engaged in a realignment of power and were going to be paying the price for that for generations. But the thing that i want to say is that the thing we keep learning in this country is that you cannot get the bed with white supremacy. Apparently theyre terrible students and white folks, i wouldnt even say people of floor, but white folks are having to learn it again. Very interesting what you laid out there. Including humpty. The chance to do the hump always. Look, heres the deal, this looks pretty serious. As someone who dealt with the Mueller Probe, do you see the underlying allegations, not asking us to resolve them, but do you see the underlying allegations here as more serious than that . I think picking up on some of the stuff prit brittany just said, one of the lessons we can learn is that we perhaps are looking at this too much in a legal lens. If were thinking about impeachment. The Mueller Probe we were so quick to see if it met the statutory elements of whatever crime that we were trying to figure out. So if not a legal lens, not each element, then what is the right lens. The impeachment lens is inherently political. So we cant sit here and say does it meet the elements to get to whatever twothirds of the senate is going to qualify for removal. So theres a famous quote that an Impeachable Offense is just whatever the congress thinks it is at that moment in history. Im going to push bag on you, respectfully. That quote could also be said as conviction is whatever 12 jurors think it is. Any congress that takes it seriously, and in history the congresss have taken it seriously, partly explaining why the senate has never removed someone from office under conviction. But also agonizingly, not a criticism of the morality of the individual, but rather a high crime misdemeanor, or bribery. The founding fathers, what they thought would constitute a high crime and misdemeanor, this certainly falls within that spectrum than any of the other impeachments weve seen in history, which is putting personal political interest above the interest of a party. I think what were seeing here is a mosaic. Were seeing the whistleblower is almost you dont need the whistleblower anymore at this point because weve got so much here putting together the pieces of this puzzle. Thats a great point. Let me bring in gene back to the panel. Gene, you know, you look at this, caroline who knows her way around these probes is talking about the role of the whistleblower. The original whistleblower, because its anonymous and theres much intrigue, has this sort of excitement. But i feel like today if you imagine there wasnt a whistleblower and we just learned that john bolton, who was aligned with donald trump, saw this all as a criminal drug deal being perpetuated by a freelanci freelancing wanttobe secretary of state who he called a hand grenade white be worse. John bolton would be the classic canary in a coal mine but i want to address something caroline said. I agree it is a political decision to impeach and try someone in the senate, especially the president of the United States. But this is a Double Barrel shotgun. You have all the elements beyond a reasonable doubt, in fact the target the president has expressed in bribery, extortion, foreign corrupt practices account. Exhibit one would be the transcript of the call, exhibit two would be his own admission in front of the white house. So it is a political decision, but here we have let me make a discussion. We have a crime. Let me make a suggestion. When we use the word political, i think that has so many meanings. Its like bad meaning bad or bad meaning good and at a certain point it collapses under its weight. The reference is that gerald ford said its whatever the senate agrees to. I think what youre saying is unlike a jury it is a political body, the congress that will vote on this. So you could say its a political decision or a Senate Decision or you could also just say legislators will look to their constituents as they usually do as they consider this process. But i dont think its political in the sense of electoral politics. Indeed, there was great an antipathy toward george w. Bush. Part of what theyre saying its political as i understand it is that its going to be perceived as partisan bias and the way we have to think about it is what kind of story do you tell so that folks understand that our democracy is at stake here, that this is not actually about the democrats going after their sort of enemy number one. And i dont think that theyve done a good job of that. Who are you talking about, the democrats . Yeah, i dont think that the country trusts politicians in general and i think that the country is deeply polarized, and so the one thing that we do have to do, and i see them trying to say its not political and its legal. Because when you use that language and what it means is, is this is objective. Objectively this person stood on the white house lawn and said i did these things. So this is the battle about whether or not this is going to be perceived as political or legal. And what we need to say is the truth is the thing that has to stand here. Facts have to lead our decisionmaking and we know he did these things. He has left us no other recourse. I think whats so interesting, caroline, having your expertise from representing people in the Mueller Probe. There were a lot of people politically rooting for impeachment. But i think it is a testament to the system, however much people disagree, that it is facts that have moved us closer to impeachment as a country right now. Some argue there were enough facts to begin with. But whatever you think happened, i dont think that the resistance dislikes donald trump more today than it did a year ago. Hopefully what we dont decide is that we need criminals to confess to their crimes to a media in order to think that we can enact the political scenarios. Thats a terrible bar. But im thinking a procedural point. People might disagree about getting there. The process has been a process of the addition of facts, not the addition of antipathy toward a politician. Let me play add many schiff saying that theyre getting a lot of evidence in these closed sessions. Take a look. Were doing these initial hearings in closed session and it makes a lot of sense to do that when youre conducting an investigation because im sure the white house would like nothing more than to be able to get their story straight by hearing what these witnesses have to say. And there are good and important investigative reasons not to let one witness know what another witness has said. Thats exactly right. Its prosecution 101. You want to separate st witnesses so they cant get their stories straight. I think that fiona hills testimony obviously cooborated everything that weve been hearing about. Especially i think what gene was referring to, the ig or and parnas indictments said. Part of the indictment said they were working with giuliani in the shadow or rogue diplomacy to get yovanovitch out of that position as ambassador. And hill corroborated that and she was a fierce advocate saying that she stood up and said this is not right. She did not like what she was seeing and its all consistent with the narrative that weve pae heard about. So i think schiff is right that its going quite well. And you say that as someone who has represented trump advisers, which is interesting. Yes. It is interesting. Were waiting on pelosi. And some of our guests were going to fit in a break. Thanks to my guests. Speaker pelosi is going to come out any moment to hold this press conference on impeachment. This comes after a meeting with house democrats. Youre looking at the podium. Were going to bring it to you live. Also elements ago, a new subpoena in the probe into giuliani. Were going to explain that when we come back from the break. And robert rice discusses giulianis attempts at creating his own shadow diplomacy. Youre watching the beat on msnbc. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. This seat . This seat is reserved for the restless. Those who need to move. And roar. And ride. Up, down, over. Powering through. 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Theyre seeking documents from sessions with the meeting he had with individuals connect to ukraine, as well as specifically efforts to oust the u. S. Ambassador and interactions between sessions, giuliani and four of his associates who were of course indicted. This news comes as right now democrats are meeting behind closed doors in the congress about what theyre going to do and potentially impeaching donald trump. And thats not all. Donald trumps personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, under criminal investigation over ukraine. Today hes getting hit from new sides. Damning new reporting about his criminal liability and how it is weakening Donald Trumps hand in the broader probe. Thats not all, confirmation from giuliani himself that he received half a Million Dollars just last year to consult for a Ukrainian Company which was co founded by one of the indicted linked associates who was of course in the middle of this issue that it is also being probed by the congressional impeachment investigators. So right there thats a lie. The timing of the payments suggest that giuliani was earning this money around the very same time that he was working with these men who have now been arrested n this per suit among other things, to try to get a Foreign Government to go after joe biden. The feds scouring any links that giuliani had and what the business was all about. The Prosecutors Office that he once ran, the Southern District, also examining his kperpersonal finances. A diplomat testifying that he warned colleagues in march about giulianis role in a separate disinformation campaign. Another adviser revealing she raised concerns about the white house lawyers and the ousted john bolton who called giuliani a walking hand grenade. So you have the heat bearing down on the person who is supposed to deflect the heat from donald trump as more and more impeachment witnesses are starting to spill the tea. Giuliani is not talking lately. We of course have seen him on fox news, but hes saying hes not going to go under oath right now. Take a listen to him talking to abc talking about a congressional subpoena. I should mention theres an official working on the impeachment inquiry that tells nbc news that giuliani will ultimately have to be forced to consider whether what he does in stonewalling will become evidence of obstruction against donald trump, the man hes trying to defend. What happens now . Where does the investigation go . And who might turn on who . We have some very special guests on the giuliani of it all and how it connects to impeachment and the cabinet. A former sdny prosecutor and cabinet official and im back in just 30 seconds. Ing we could boh agree on was getting geico to help with our renters insurance. Yeah, switching and saving was really easy drink it all up. Good could have used a little salt. Visit geico. Com and see how easy saving on renters insurance can be. New subpoenas and new heat on giuliani. Were back with the author of the common good. Nice to see you. Robert, what do you see in the Foreign Policy of this . How unusual is it and how potentially criminal is it to have someone basically trying to pass themselves off as their own secretary of state . Well, the issue here is that president s have secretaries of state who go through a process to get not only nominated and confirmed through the senate, but also take an oath of office to the people of the United States. Not to the president , but the people of the United States. And this secretary of state role is extremely important. And donald trump has essentially appointed Rudy Giuliani as his own shadow secretary of state. Giuliani has been going all around the world, making all kinds of deals. We are beginning to find out what kind of deals they are. We know that in ukraine giuliani has been involved in trying to dig up dirt on joe biden. This is not necessarily something new. I mean, we know that donald trump has directly done it. Im not asking you if its new. Im saying given your work inside the cabinet, is this normal, is it abnormal . Oh, its completely abnormal. And it may be criminal. Marion. So the world for mr. Giuliani has exchanged remarkably in even just a week. Its one thing to say well, you were acting as a shadow secretary of state, which i assume there would be various people within the Trump Administration that would say no, he really wasnt. Thats one set of facts. What were starting to hear now is that the Southern District of new york is investigating a whole bunch of other contacts that he had with a bunch of people in the ukraine. And those behaviors are not going to be easily talked away or spun away. Because theres financial evidence . Exactly. And the evidence is held by third parties. You can stone all you want, stonewall all you want if youre mr. Giuliani, but as you can see from what you were talking about earlier, you can get the documents from somewhere else. You make an interesting point, because so Many Political battles are debates over who says what. And youre saying the evidence is more powerful than anyones selfinterested defense or stonewalling. This story that just crossed the wire says giuliani is the primary focus of the new subpoena against the congressman. Giuliani has continued wrongdoing and says he has no indication that hes been investigated. It doesnt seem to matter where he knows. It appears that other people know, confirmed by multiple folks. What does it tell you that sdny is subpoenaing former congressman sessions to get at giuliani . I think theyre acting slowly and deliberately. Which is to say, okay, were going to look at the whole universe of potential crimes. Were not looking at any one particular narrative. And the minute we find something of interest, were going to follow that path, were going to follow multiple paths. Theres no reason to believe that mr. Sessions is the only person who received a subpoena. We just heard about that right now. I would expect the grand jury to serve subpoenas on multiple banks. You wouldnt expect them to stop with just one bank. And from tlrhere, its sort of like a web. And one thing to keep in mind, and this is different from the impeachment inquiry. Impeachment, there is a benefit to the house that we get the drip, drip, nice drip of information that we hear about and it moves quickly. A criminal investigation is different. Particularly when its before the grand jury. Its secret right now. Obviously things come out. But for the most part its secret and thats really beneficial to the government because its the secrecy that protects your evidence. That protects against spoilation of evidence, because if nobody knows where the government is going, its harder to destroy evidence. So how do you explain and a lot of people have been exploring. You worked at sdny. Tough prosecutors . Definitely. Usually win their cases. Typically. How do you explain giuliani putting himself in a position where the office that he knows so well and he knows how tough they are and he knows how much they succeed is under that glare . How does he get out from under this . So theres this remarkable amount of psychology, why do people in high places do really dumb things. And theres a lot of work out there that suggests its not something that comes all at once. Its something you make a little bit of it and its called ethical fading. You tell yourself maybe ten years ago, 20 years ago, im just making a little move here. Im just doing something thats a little unethical and then you con since yourself after youve moved the line that you can make another move thats a little more unethical. Do you think hes on the wrong side of the line now . I would like to wait and see everything that comes out. Certainly what ive seen horrifies me. But i think were going to see a lot more. Let me bring in robert back in. Youve been patiently a part of this, but listening to the interesting analysis, including the lawyerly statement that she would like to wait for all the evidence, but shes also horrified by the available evidence. Walk us through the larger part of this in the administration, robert, because when we hear that john bolton was moved to this degree to go to the lawyers of the National Security council, to say this is a drug deal, what does that tell you about the level of concern before any of this was public . Well, john bolton, lets be clear, john bolton is not a hero of the democrats or liberals. John bolton is about as conservative as they come. But a conservative rliberal is not really the issue. The issue is whats going to happen to a president that is freelancing with a rogue secretary of state and everybody is beginning to ask follow the money. This is what we heard in the nixon watergate hearing. Im curious about your view of the bolton thing, though. Well, bolton is somebody who is close to the president. The president hired. And for bolton to say this is going to be a hand grenade that could blowup, be careful, that is very, very significant because bolton has seen exactly whats going on, bolton also has named other people inside the white house, the chief of staff is part of what might be a conspiracy. Bolton names him as part of something thats going on that could blowup in everybodys f e face. I think just stepping back from all of this t my only concern, honestly, is that there is also evidence. We already know that the president of the United States, and there is a transcript showing that he tried to get dirt on a potential opponent from a foreign power. And we also know that that is impeachable. Thats an Impeachable Offense. The more complex this becomes, the more we go into Rudy Giuliani and john bolton and all these other characters, it builds up a case potentially for impeachment, but you already have an impeachment case. You dont want to confuse the public. If you want to have any prayer of getting 20 republican senators to back impeachment, thats the number you need if every democratic senator goes along with it, youve got to have a public that understands exactly what happened. Youre speaking about the challenge posed to your Democratic Party and to what pelosi does, and were going to hear from her when she steps out on the podium within the hour were told by the house. Of course thats a different project than the project were doing here, which is gathering all the evidence. So the evidence on giuliani, what happens in this probe, whether it ultimately incriminates is different than the project of democrats trying to tell the simplest story. Im going to fit in a break. The final question i have, though, on where we go from here is based on your knowledge of sdny and the type of case this is, are we talking weeks, months, years . Some cases are complex. He would note the cohen case sdny moved very swiftly on. I wouldnt expect years. The difference of weeks and months might be what do you find, what additionally do you find t. More you find, the more youre going to make sure that you get all your ducks in a row. This is a kaes about things giuliani has discussed publicly, but ballpark, youre talking about under six months they either move or dont move on other subjects in the probe . With some caveats, because you might want to say if there really was a chance that the president would be removed under impeachment. You might say im going to put this on hold and wait for that all to sort of resolve. But that being said, because you might be worried about Something Like pardons. So putting that aside who is bringing up pardons . Im saying if thats what youre worried about, if youre thinking i want to preserve my case. I dont have to worry about my statute of limitations. Its funny you mention that and you have so much knowledge. Donald trump hasnt pardnd almost anyone directly in these issues. You think the first conflicted sort of appealable type pardon would be giuliani . I wouldnt in any way suggest it. But that being said you wouldnt recommend it . I would never recommend it, but i would be worried about it. If youre asking me what do the prosecutors do and if im a prosecutor and i have all my ducks in a row, i still might think i should wait and see where all this goes for a little bit. Its fascinating to hear you lay that out. And to listen to both of you given your extensive experience on a night where were waiting on the speaker of the house to discuss the potential impeachment of the president and were hearing former members of congress have been subpoenaed in the giuliani probe. And mr. Giuliani says hes going to fight the subpoenas. Seven minutes into the call time you see the assembled press. When Speaker Pelosi comes out, well be right back. 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Well bring it to you. When Speaker Pelosi comes utter to give the press conference, well show it to you. Right now Democratic Candidates gearing up, 12 candidates taking the stage. The first debate since the ukraine scandal exploded and the first since Bernie Sanders heart attack. Joining me the bar net, one of the foremost debate experts arrive, he played a key role in debate prep in 10 of the last 11 cycles, including playing the roel of george bush, dick cheney. The perfect person to have. How are you doing . Im glad to be here. Im glad to have you, bob, with your experience. Whats key at this stage with these candidates in the debate . Well, there will be 12 on the stage, obviously, and thats a lot of people and the managing of that will itself be interesting. I think its fair to say there are three in the top tier right now and each one of them has their own mission, their own goals, their own worries. Take them one at a time. I think that joe biden has well answered the criticisms that have come totally unfairly in my view from the white house. Heres a chance, 90 seconds, which doesnt seem like a lot, but it is a lot, to actually answer that with a viewership of maybe 15 or however many million. To nail that. What about warren at a time when many are looking at her at the higher level . Shes now the frontrunner so she has to debate like a frontrunner. I think the things that will come at her, either from the hosts or from the others, will be the whole losing the job from pregnancy issue thats been filtering around and also, of course, the ruminating thats going on about how she pays for her plans particularly in the context of health care. Im sure shell be ready. Who is your number three . I think you say still senator sanders is number three. And given the unfortunate Health Problems that hes had over the last couple of weeks, i think he will have to put that to rest. Other candidates have run into this. Senator sanders is known for his work ethic and getting around the country. These are big rallies and he keeps a busy schedule. He had this health challenge. Heres how one famous candidate dealt with this. Look at this. I will not make age an issue of this campaign. I am not going to exploit for political purposes my opponents youth and inexperience. That was one of the alltime great lines, sadly at the expense of any dear friend walter mondale. Bernie is not known as humerus, so it will be hard for him to pull off Something Like that. How do you address it then if its on the minds . I think he has to address it directly. The recent debates have had discussions of some candidates age and there are other moments where people are trying to break out and say theyre a different kind of democrat in a year where people are looking at a different kind of president ial incumbent to run against. Take a look at some of those moments. You just said that two minutes ago. You just said two minutes ago that they would have to buy in. They would not have to buy in if they qualify for medicaid are you forgetting what you said two minutes ago . I remember President Trump skofd and said he would like to see me making a deal with xi jinping. Were going to take your ar14 and ak47. Were not going to allow it to be used anymore. You say its 12, its a big stage. How much does it matter for the other candidates to get moments without looking phony . Let me answer that in two ways. First of all, i hope we will not spend the two, three hours with my friends attacking each other. Theres plenty to talk about with respect to the incumbent president. Now, to answer your question directly, its particularly important for the people below that first tier to try to do those breakout moments. And you can do them and theyve been done. But is that clip you just showed proved, it doesnt work if you do it against one of your fellow candidates. I think its to your detriment. I think castro learned that the hard way. And i think kamala harris, after getting a temporary bump, probably didnt do well by her School Busing comments. I think youre better off arguing for yourself, attacking the people youre going to be running against, and certainly talking policy and differentiating your plans and your programs. But going against each other, i dont think its going to be a breakout moment for whatever does that. Always a pleasure to have you here. Thank you for getting me in here today. Busy news times. Bob bar net, our special guest. And as mentioned, we are still keeping an eye on this, 6 45 p. M. And Speaker Pelosi has not come out to the podium yet. I will always update you and we will show it live if she comes out. Meanwhile, we have a lot more on the impeachment push when we come back. Tarted renting from national. Because national lets me lose the wait at the counter. And choose any car in the aisle. And i dont wait when i return, thanks to drop go. At national, i can lose the wait. And keep it off. Looking good, patrick. I know. vo go national. Go like a pro. Aalexa its a masterstroke of sorrow by olivia watson. Heartache, brutality and redemption. The mist crept into the pivot hole beside her. Youre late. David what did you think of the book . Its a. Masterstroke of. Heartache. Brutality. And redemption. You didnt read it, did you . I didnt. But i will. The lexus nx, modern utility for modern obstacles. Lease the 2020 nx 300 for 349 month for 36 months. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Rather than worry about how to pay for longterm care. Brighthouse smartcare℠is a hybrid Life Insurance and longterm care product. It protects your family while providing longterm care coverage, should you need it. So you can explore all the Amazing Things ahead. Talk to your advisor about brighthouse smartcare. Brighthouse financial. Build for whats ahead℠brighthouse financial. O ozempic® oh oh announcer people with type 2 diabetes are excited about the potential of onceweekly ozempic®. In a study with ozempic®, a majority of adults lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than 7 and maintained it. Oh under 7 . announcer and you may lose weight. In the same oneyear study, adults lost on average up to 12 pounds. Oh up to 12 pounds . announcer a twoyear study showed that ozempic® does not increase the risk of major cardiovascular events like heart attack, stroke, or death. Oh no increased risk . announcer ozempic® should not be the first medicine for treating diabetes, or for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. Do not share needles or pens. Dont reuse needles. Do not take ozempic® if you have a personal or Family History of medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you are allergic to ozempic®. 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This is what basically what happens on a breaking news night. Speaker pelosi adjourning this meeting and waiting along with all the press you see gathered here and i showed this earlier tonight all the waiting here. And this is not a normal press conference. To state sort of the obvious as we point this out, what were going to see is Speaker Pelosi coming out of the meeting where we do know according to reporting one of the items of debate is how to proceed on an esicating impeachment probe and should there be a house vote . Speaker pelosi is not expected to announce that tonight. You may recall President Trump had kind of taunted the democrats and said they should hold a vote before anything else happens. And i want to read from a reporting from politico but they used the terminology, quote, no consensus inside the caucus meeting about whether or not to hold that floor vote. So we have a lot here that is very interesting. As i promised you when Speaker Pelosi does take the podium youll see it right here on msnbc, and well keep an eye on any of these members of congress who are filing out in realtime from that high stakes meeting. I want to bring back in our experts right now starting with professor brittany cooper. Nice to see you again. Good to see you. One of those nights. People think sometimes oh, the media, were hyping. No, weve got a 6 30 time from the speaker. Its not your fault. These are the wheels of democracy turning and they always turn much more slowly than we want. I like that. I will tell you as this meeting literally while they were in there and this meeting was going on the wall street journal had another scoop. Theres new subpoenas targeting Rudy Giuliani and his dealings with a former member of congress that comes after these arrests. Donald trump made a point of having the public embraced weekend luncheon with giuliani, but hes also done other things to distance lawyers. Take a look at some of that language. Do we have that . We may have it. If not, let me show you that is question that has a lot of implication. I wouldnt cooperate with adam schiff. I am adam schiff should be removed. So thats your answer, you wouldnt cooperate i didnt say that. You said you wouldnt do it. I said i will consider it. That sometimes happens. Not the one i was thinking of, but he had said, oh, ask Michael Cohen and then last weekend he said ask giuliani. Look, these men dont have any respect for the rule of law. Theyre entirely lawless and renegade. At this point theyre operating under the cya principle. Everyone is trying to protect everyone is trying to protect their neck. Maybe im happy this press released delayed. I do have it. Were a little delayed. Take a look at the other time this came up. I dont know them. I know about them. I dont know what they do, but i dont know maybe they were clients of rudy. Youd have to ask rudy. I just dont know. Youd have to ask michael. Michaels my attorney and youd have to ask michael. These men are obstructionist. They dont have any respect for the rule of law. And the thing thats disturbing is they actually think its okay to lie to the American People. How do you have sort of the chief enforcer of the rule of law essentially every day skirting that law inviting other people not to cooperate. When they say we want to cooperate, lets actually use the right language. Theyre saying theyre going to obstruct justice. Theyre saying theyre going to undermine our own legal processes. Thats such an important point to make because it actually gets obscured. If you want to debate it and out say hey this subpoena is too broad, that happens all the time. When they say im defying it as you say, theyre just saying they wont cooperate with Law Enforcement if its the feds. Theyre saying that you can become too powerful in this country to be compelled by the law. And to theects tent we have anything like a social contract in this country the idea men just get to opt because power and money allow them to is something that should disturb all of us. David, you know tat the caucus meeting just adjourned. Were waiting on Speaker Pelosi. This does feel with congress returning some of at least as you look at it in the next month or two, a do or die time. What do you say coming out of your reporting . As nbc news has confirmed theres no consensus on whether to have this vote trump is demanding, an impeachment inquiry vote. Rudy giuliani and some lawyers are claiming the impeachment inquiry is not legitimate because there wasnt a vote overall on the house floor to proceed with this and still somehow, democrats, even though who said publicly they support an inquiry who seem to be a little bit reluctant to vote for an impeachment inquiry which they will theres an investigation to determine whether there should be articles of impeachment which will have to be brought before the house floor in order to pass them onto the senate. Its a little bit of somewhat a technicality here, but it is something thats turning, you know, the House Democratic caucus, i think in some way, you know, pelosi may just need to sort of force members to swallow hard and vote for this so they can take this off the off the debate stage and move ahead. Because youre right, theres not a lot of time. You know whats going to laep. If this moves on until next year and they dont pass any articles of impeachment to january probably march or april, what is the senate going to say, the Republic Republican Senate . We have an election coming up. And as you often do, david, you put your finger on an important point in the calendar which is pelosi is getting ready to take the stage while Democratic Candidates are ready to take the stage in a couple of hours. She may be trying to give the latest updates so they know what the house is going to do which is her providence. Before we pass this off to hardball which will continue our special coverage of this breaking story, david, i want you to take a listen to hunter biden speaking out for the First Time Since he was dragged into this whole ukraine plot today. Take a look. You never thought this might not look right . Did i make a mistake . Well maybe in the grand scheme of things, yeah. But did i make a mistake based upon some unethical lapse, absolutely not. Do you think youre a distraction right now to your Fathers Campaign . Personally myself, im not necessarily a distraction to his campaign. David joining us by phone, did hunter biden make a mistake by joining that board . And would he have been on that board if his last name wasnt biden . Of course it was a mistake. This happens all the time. Its not necessarily illegal, not necessarily unethical but it is part of a swamp so david corn i want to be clear, david corn from mother jones, your view is hunter biden is part of Donald Trumps swamp. Hes part of the overall swamp of washington where nepotism and connection often determine action, and its wrong with whatever side does it. Its not illegal, and its not necessarily unethical, but it is a distraction. It should not have happened. And you can take this out, the same thing going on in Trumps White House at a hyper speed. The speaker as promised has taken the lector and lets listen in. Ill begin by talking about how pleased i am our members did during the break. As i say all the time we are legislating, were investigating and we are litigating. On a legislative front we had a very great drum beat across america for hr3, our legislation to bring down the cost of prescription drugs now. Members had town meetings and the rest to listen to peoples concern and share what we intended to do. And now were back this week two committees under bobby scotts leadership will be mocking up hr3 under chairman Frank Pollone will be markup hr3 and the ways and means skmcommittee chairman neal will be marking it up next week. And were going down the path of passing legislation that will be transformative in the lives of the American People for what it will save them, what it will save the taxpayers as well. It might be interesting do you know in the course of this past week or so, the Congressional Budget Office reported that hr 3 will save taxpayers 345 billion on the medicaid part d piece alone and that it will negotiations and medicare inflation rebates will save households