Transcripts For MSNBCW The Beat With Ari Melber 20190906

Cold floors and some of those same officials blamed budget cuts. Thats a story we have for you. And a first on the beat that is near and dear to our heart. Nbcs lester holt is here tonight. Hes going to speak about his new series on justice in america including two nights he spent sleeping at the largest maximum security prison in the u. S. Well get into all of that. Im thrilled that hes been on the show tonight. Thats unusual. We begin with donald trump about to face a crush of new investigations. Now many people said, look, this summer felt a little chaotic and you had all the mueller stuff. Democrats say theres a lot more to get to. Two top leaders in the house announcing a new probe into whether donald trump has abused his position as president to enrich himself. Now obviously the context here is something weve been reporting on aggressively all week. The revelations of vice pens took this absurd 180 mile detour so he could drop some taxpayer dollars at trumps hotel over there in ireland. Trump is also pushing his florida resort for an International Summit trying to get foreign governments to pay in, although that hasnt been approved yet. Judiciary chairman jerry nadler and Elijah Cummings are saying this is serious investigative stuff. Theyre demanding documents from the white house, from pence from even the secret service which could set up all kinds of battles as well as the Trump Organization which is on the receiving end of the apparent boon doingless and setting a deadline for september 19th. This could help this committee to make a decision on, yes, whether to recommend, quote, articles of impeachment. We were reporting on how democrats had essentially three different fronts for any potential impeachment probe. First, the evidence laid out by mueller. Its been publicly discussed and partly stone walled by the white house. Second though, theres Donald Trumps racist actions as president. That was the way that al green put it in the Impeachment Vote that he held which, remember, wasnt backed by five or ten or 20 people in the resistance, 95 elected democrats in the house backed that road to impeachment. Third, you have the house going deeper into illegal hush payments with women and much of that occurred in 2016 when theres no argument for executive privilege about the underlying material. Now donald trump enriching himself, i should say, through the presidency . Well, you could consider that a potential fourth door according to some democrats because theres plenty to work with here. Mike pence shifting his explanations over real time throughout the week about why he went out of his way to spend your money at that resort. He was asked, quote, did President Trump ask him . I dont think it was a request, command, i think it was a suggestion. Suggestion from the president. The opportunity to stay at Trump National to accommodate the unique footprint that comes with our security detail and other personnel made it logical. About 3 30 in ireland last night thats when the Vice President s chief of staff mark short put out an additional statement blaming this on misreporting even though what had been reported was quoting of the Vice President and his chief of staff. So you start with this was trumps idea. Who elses idea would it be to go out of your way to stay at a trump hotel . Then you have the idea, oh, it was a logical choice. Nobody really bought that. Then you have blaming the press. Democrats have a completely separate investigation as well into whether trump was trying to profit when he was pushing his doral resort for the next summit. Doral happens to be within miami. Its a wonderful place. Its a very, very successful area of florida. Its very importantly only five minutes from the airport. Its not about me, its about getting the right location. You may have heard the old saying, location, location, location. Five minutes from the airport or 180 miles, depending on which airport you need to use. The next week democrats will be back in washington, and theyre saying that means donald trump is going to have a lot more explaining to do. Kicking off our show tonight weve got a lot of different topics to cover but we begin on following the money with Jason Johnson and Margaret Carlson from the daily beast. Margaret, it would seem that things that donald trump has long been known for, the excessive exaggeration of his properties, the blatant selfpromotion and selfenrichment are getting more attention now, at least the way it went down with pence and attorney general barr planning 30 k at the trump hotel in washington. The others have been a little bit vaguer because who was paying . William barr is paying the 30,000 out of his own pocket, just happens to be going to the trump hotel down the street. But this one is the taxpayer, and, you know, scott prue wet and ryan zince and tom price were let go, fired, pushed out for doing this very same thing, staying in Expensive Hotels and taking private jets on the taxpayer dime. So involving the taxpayer money i think is the key here in why oversight and judiciary are doing it. But the other part about this. This is such a bold move. Like it wasnt going to be a secret that he was going there, and theres nothing about a footprint. Like dublin has a lot of dignitaries that pass through and with a big footprint and the footprint can be handled. When i went to the dunbeg website, rooms were going for 995 euro a night which is slightly over 1,000, but also those days that pence was there were crossed out so it could be that they took over the whole place and that the footprint was small enough, actually, that they took over the whole place. Jason . This this is such an obvious scam. Like i dont understand what takes the democrats so long to realize that the president of the United States is scamming us all. This is a clear violation of the emoluments clause. This isnt the only example. Weve seen foreign dignitaries and ambassadors decide they want to stay in trump hotels. Hes using the United States as a way to funnel money into his personal finances. Thats not complicated. Thats not difficult. What amazes me. Ari, you know whats smarter than spending all of this time and Political Capital on investigations . An impeachment. Thats what amazes me about all of this. Speak to that because weve been having these conversations and, frankly, i hear from viewers of the beat and msnbc all the time about, well, wait a minute, the democrats surely had to have a plan. They knew that sooner or later mueller would end and whether he ended with four, you know, incidents of obstruction or six or eight or you know, barring some fantasmagorical video or something smoking which we still know in this climate people would debate, people ask me, ari, dont the democrats have a plan for what they would do when it came in . They have three or four doors, different carcasses, they dont seem to have a clear plan of what theyre going to do about it. Right. When it comes to impeachable trump has turned it from a two to a four from a four to an eight. Were finding more things they have done that is corrupt. The democrats not only dont have a plan but what they should be doing and what theyre wasting time with, every single one of these investigations could be part of an impeachment hearing. Thats part of the show. Thats part of the presentation to the public but instead theyre wasting time in the hearings that will be completely lost as we head into holiday season. So unless the plan is to do impeachment hearings in the primary, it seems like theyre wasting an opportunity to not only fulfill their Constitutional Responsibilities but hold a corrupt president in check. Jason calls it a scam. The thing about donald trump, this was true in his prior life in entertainment and it is certainly true in the way that he is president , theres a lot of lying and occasionally there are little bolts of weird truths that make him look bad and you think why does someone who lies so much to try to look good then say true things that make him look bad . Maybe thats above my pay grade to know why, but that now thats a rap song, ari. You know, what did l. L. Cool jay say youre lying about the lies you tell. Here its occasionally blurting the truth. And i offer that as context for what i want your analysis on which is heres donald trump saying basically something that no other president in either party would ever publicly admit to, which is that they think being president is costing them something and they could make more money elsewhere. By the way, almost every qualified president could make more than a Public Sector salary. Barack obama could have made more if he wanted to be a lobbyist or be at a law firm. It goes without saying. Here he was admitting that. Take a look. Probably it will cost me anywhere from 3 to 5 billion to be president. Couldnt careless, otherwise i wouldnt have done it. People have asked me, what do you think it costs, between opportunity i used to make a lot of money making spichs. Now you know what i get . Zip poe. He doesnt seem to realize that thats the wrong equation if you want to choose public service. Most people dont get to work in positions of power, decide life and death matters. Its public service. He wanted to stay private but i think that adds like another 100 lies to the 12,000 lies because i dont care . Thats really a big lie because he does care. Hes the only president who thinks he should still be making money in the private sector right. While hes president. Some president s might think, well, i can make some money later, library, books, et cetera. But this is one who thinks just the opposite. He doesnt want to give up any money while hes there. By the way, he still owns his properties and his business. So his sons are running it . That was the worst case of removing conflicts of interest ive ever seen in government ever. Well put. Like a 2x4. Both of you stay with me. I want to bring in someone who were actually indebted to in this reporting. We like to go to our primary sources. Zach everson reports on the trump hotel in washington and, you know, zach, you can never profile people, right . You know that. You cant learn a lot by looking at someone, right . Correct. And so we dont profile you. Eagle eyed viewers may recall you were on the show earlier this week. You were stumped by david koryn. He threw out a line from snoop doggy dog. You knew it. Top of the dome and we salute you for that. Thank you. Thats what im here for. Now onto the business. You have been tracking this. Well put up on the screen thanks to your work the number of republican senators that have been spending money at the trump hotel properties. Thats just from public sourcing. Walk us through again for viewers who may not know about your work, although weve relied on it, what it is youve found and why you thought it was important to track this apparent patronage . Sure. I started looking at social media to see if we could find out who was spending money at the trump hotel. You absolutely could. Theyre posting pictures on there. I started off in i guess it was august of 2017 and it was Anthony Scaramucci and Rudy Giuliani. Here we are a couple of days later. Yesterday it was a governor of one of pakistans provinces and Rudy Giuliani again because hes a regular there. You can really get a good glimpse of whats going on. Its fec reports on Campaign Finance and pictures that ive seen of them online. Weve had i think its 26 out of 53 republican senators have been there, only one democratic senator. The majority of their caucus and counting. It adds up to real money. The New York Times absolutely. Saying nearly 20 mil spent at trump Family Hotels since 2015. Only by republican political groups. Based on your knowledge of the travel industry, which, again, is what you have some background in, is that an unusual amount of money for a hotel to get strictly for political reasons rather than what we might call earned or meritocratic interests staying there. What really stands out is how republicans didnt go to Trump Properties until trump became president. Right. That is just the fact that you can see. Youve seen mike pences committee has spent 225,000 there. Speaker excuse me, minority leader mccarthys committee has spent 225,000. The rnc has spent 400,000 and pro trump pac has spent over 500,000. Right there it is clearcut he is profiting from the presidency. Margaret . I dont know if zach included this. Pences pacs have paid 250,000 at Trump Properties already. So, you know, whats striking about this is its not hidden. Its all in plain sight. Its bold. Its out there. And like democrats are just getting around to it as jason says, where have they been . Just walk into the lobby. Thank you, zach, for doing it for us. Thats really hard duty. But its its there. Its not hard to get. You dont even need subpoenas, just like youve got the documents. The documents are really powerful. Right. Right. This new house investigation, were not going to learn anything new. Right. We know when trump went to dunebeg, one of his scottish golf courses in 2018, the taxpayers were on the bill for 77,000. The scotsman did a great job reporting that. We know that theyre going to request these documents, maybe theyll get them, maybe they wont. Information might leak. The end result is the taxpayers are on the hook for about 50,000. What matters then is what the democrats do with that information if anything because right now were seeing nothing. Theres seven different house panels that are looking into as spekts spekts of trumps businesses. We havent seen any public information. Right. We certainly havent seen any sort of change in behavior. Jason . Ari, what are they looking at at this point . Yelp reviews . I didnt like the dinner here, the continental breakfast wasnt that good. It wouldnt require an investigation. This looks like kickbacks. Some of these republicans feel like if i dont spend money in a trump hotel, he wont endorse me. Hell attack my primary opponent in 2020. Why it is that these members of the senate cant realize that they are actually being taken advantage of as much as the American People is amazing to me. Im pretty sure they would rather spend the night at a holiday inn than 900 at a trump hotel. William barr trump needs william barr more than william barr needs trump . Right. Hes spending 30,000 out of his own pocket. Of all of the expen at thditure the one i find questionable. Mr. Barr is a very bright person. He didnt take a long time hanging out there in this new role. Hes one of the more recent cabinet members to figure out how it works and how to ingratiate. Thats a chilling statement when were talking about matters of literally life and death. I mean, who lives and who dies and who protects the prisons and how do executions work and his focus was not only in getting a Holiday Party planned and getting it leaked that hes spending the money that way. On a lighter note do you know how you can tell whether a continental breakfast is solid on the road . I do not, please tell me. My test. I love a free included continental is whether theres multiple types of juice. If i come in and its only o. J. , its okay. If i see the grapefruit juice, this holiday inn, on the campaign trail. Ari, breakfast was included at the dunebeg for your 1,000 a night. Not just bread but o. J. I dont know about the o. J. At the dunebeg but you got breakfast. We try to go to o. J. To o. G. Nice. Thats a good one. Zach . Sorry. No worries. Weve got standards for how you judge a continental breakfast. Ill try to be funnier. I was impressed. Jason, margaret and zach, thank you for putting up with me. What were going to do is fit in a 30 second break. When we come back Nbcs Lester Holt is here with an extraordinary look inside the Worlds Largest prison and sleeping there overnight. Trump dhs officials spending money on furniture while families are sleeping on the floor. My fact check on the coal industry. You know its friday. We have a special follow up with havoc and ejp. We will be back in just 30 seconds. The United States Postal Service makes more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. Ecommerce deliveries to homes Unitedhealthcare Medicare complete plans have a lot to take advantage of like medicares Largest Health care network. Hey, thats my dermatologist 0 copays on all primary care doctor visits plus rewards for preventive care. Go ahead, take advantage. Now we turn to a very important story and a new exclusive series. Justice for all where nbc nightly news anchor lester holt explores some of the most important issues facing criminal Justice Reform including stories of the wrongfully accused, exploring how mass incarceration works in America Today and justice at large. Lester went and embedded in the largest maximum security prison in the u. S. Spending two nights in a cell at the angola, louisiana, state penitentiary. Reporter angola, or the Louisiana State penitentiary, is a former slave plantation. I spent three days here. On the inside my access was virtually unrestricted and at times i was not in the immediate sight of officers. Very few of the roughly 6,000 inmates here live behind bars as we traditionally think of prisons. In fact, most of them, about 80 , live in open dorms like this, bunk bets like you would see in a barracks. We going to go down the tier here. But for security reasons i wont be staying in a dorm. Instead, im brought to this cell block reserved for high risk offenders. In my case, a high profile guest. Cell 11. Go ahead and close. As journalists we know that to get to the heart of something you have to get inside of it. The closer you are to something the more it is revealed to you. And we are thrilled to be joined right now by lester holt, anchor of nbc nightly news. Thanks so much for making time for us. Sure, ari. Happy to be here. What was important to you about reporting the story this way . And what did you learn on the inside . Well, its a story thats typically told from the outside in and we simply reversed it. I wanted to tell it from the inside out and have intimate conversations with these guys, and to do that we used techniques like no artificial lighting and the cameras were kept quite far back but we wanted to understand this issue of mass incarceration and how different states and different prisons are trying to make it better. Here theyve got, you know, some programs they have added and theyre trying to give reason for hope in a place where theres not a lot of it. A lot of these guys are there on life sentences without the possibility of parole. One of the things i think you and i know from interviewing people is no matter how hard you listen, an interview is an artificially constructed set of time. You spent more time there. Did you pick up anything in the mood, in the environment, in the hopelessness that some people feel in this type of system . Yeah. I think i went in with a sense that this would be filled with bitter people. Their lives hit a dead end with choices they made. What i found was a lot of thoughtful individuals. Youve been in a lot of prisons and talked to a lot of inmates. You know sometimes theyll tell you what they think you want to hear or what may be to their advantage so there were moments i simply didnt know if i was being conned but i spoke to enough of these guys to get this sense of theyre looking for some form of redemption. Many of them, i said, do you deserve parole . I dont deserve parole. I would like to be released. They are coming to acknowledge their crimes. They look you in the eye and say, look, in some cases im in prison for something i did when i was 15, im 45, im 50. That gets to that question, what do we do about violent offenders but those who may not may no longer pose a threat to society . The other fault line here is race and the way the system has worked in racially disparate and sometimes racist ways over the decades. It has gotten a little more attention lately. I wonder what you think in looking at that and the way that punitive justice is handed out. Yeah. Go ahead. You cant escape the legacy and, you know, brighter minds have looked into this issue of the line from slavery in this country into our how our criminal Justice System has turned out. I will tell you anecdotally that angola is a farm and this is hard labor. One of the jobs there is to go out in the fields and pick produce. I went out on a tractor with inmates and we were picking carrots and i looked around and i said to them, i said, everybody looks like us, meaning people of color. And we were being under the watchful eye of guards with guns on horsebacks. The imagery, it certainly wasnt lost on me. And i talked to prison officials about that. You know, they make the argument, look, these guys are getting paid, albeit pennies per hour but the food is consumed at the prison and that virtually any piece of farm land in louisiana was at one time a plantation as this was but, you know, i couldnt escape that stark imagery and the history we know in that part of the country. Thats very striking. The last thing i wanted to ask you about was in your work on this and in your writing about it you touch on how in the role of a journalist youve observed actual executions. Thats not something most people see with their own eyes outside of Law Enforcement or people caught up in those situations. What did you learn from that . How do you take that to telling this story to americans as we do debate how we do justice. That was back in the 90s i was a witness, a media witness which they had in an execution. It was a lethal injection. I always remember in this, you know, kind of a chilly block house, i call it block house, it was brick, the curtain opens up. There is the inmate all wired up and the warden and he has a headset on. Its all very official. I remember this moment of wanting to stand up, wait a second. What are we about to do here . I say that not as giving you my opinion one way or the other on death penalty, but it made me think about how we administer justice and what do we get for it . Because, you know, he was executed that day for, by the way, a horrible crime. Is the world any safer . What did we get for it as a society . That kind of started those thoughts which i didnt really play down on until later now that its a topic that people really seem ready to discuss and its got bipartisan support for the conversation. But certainly you can witness Something Like that and not have it shape how you view the criminal Justice System. Absolutely. It is a fascinating way that youre approaching the story so youre known to all of our viewers, lester holt. Thanks for coming on the beat and telling us about it. You bet. Thanks. Any time. Lesters full report. Its a special edition of dateline tonight 10 p. M. Eastern on nbc and then this sunday the msnbc special, lesters justice for all at the Sing Sing Correctional Facility on msnbc. Now coming up on tonights beat we have a lot more. Trumps dhs buying high End Office Furniture while forces people to sleep on the floor. All about budget priorities. We will deal with someone where they say if they win they will be able to stop President Trump from being able to run for president again. Well inform them that Liberty Mutual customizes home insurance, so theyll only pay for what they need. Your turn to keep watch, limu. Wake me up if you see anything. [ snoring ] [ loud squawking and siren blaring ] only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. So you dont have to stash antacids here. Tc and take control of heartburn. Here. Or here. Kick your antacid habit with prilosec otc. One pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. At verizon, were building the most powerful 5g experience for america. Thats why the nfl chose verizon. 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New scandal hitting Donald Trumps immigration policy tonight. Homeland Security Officials spent millions of dollars on Office Furniture while claiming resources have been too short to house immigrant families, including migrants to sleep on the floor. The daily beast said they have spent 120 million on furniture most specifically at herman miller. Trump under fire for raiding funding which would have been used to educate children of American Military personnel. They wont get a planned new middle school. Trump can divert funds to the wall that he said, never forget, mention mexico would pay for. Im joined by reuben gaillego. Good to see you. What is important . The most important thing you have to understand is what the president cares about when it comes to family separation and deportation policy is they want to maximize cruel at this and thats why theyre depriving these people of beds and the sanitary conditions they should be in, clearly not money. Number two, it makes it very hard for us in congress to continue to appropriate money to Homeland Security efforts when we know theyre being wasteful and theyre coming back asking for more money and then also raiding our military budget, something that many of us have worked hard on to improve and to increase because of the need that we have in our family bases. This family does not take this as serious as all. We checked on that, and prior administrations have also spent money on furniture at similar rates, but they havent had the same policies and then claimed budget shortfalls. Correct. The acting dhs secretary is doing that to you in effect. Take a look. Were in the midst of an ongoing security and humanitarian crisis at our southwest border. Given the scale of what were facing, well exhaust our resources before the end of this fiscal year which is why this week the administration will be sending a supplemental funding request to the congress. Is that on the level . No, its not on the level. Its going to make funding decisions more difficulty think in the future for us in congress. Look, at the same time, you know, that theyre raiding all these other efforts, lets not forget theyve been raiding the fema fund, that they took money away from the coast guard, things very important right now. This administration is irresponsible and reckless to a point that theyre actually more dangerous than anything else. Theyre not effectively controlling the border. Theyre making the whole process dangerous but for us as citizens too. We no longer have as strong of an effective fema or coast guard because theyre being raided by the administration. These are important stories especially holding them to account. Thank you for joining us tonight. Pleasure. Appreciate it. When we come back bei, we h an important fact check from the head of the coal miners labor union all about what donald trump is doing for that industry. Later, we have a challenger that says donald trump is an unfit con man, he can stop him. And its friday, a special fallback with havoc and our friend e. J. Dionne. Othbrush. But my hygienist said going electric could lead to way cleaner teeth. She said, get the one inspired by dentists, with a round brush head. Go pro with oralb. Oralbs gentle rounded brush head removes more plaque along the gum line. For cleaner teeth and healthier gums. And unlike sonicare, oralb is the First Electric toothbrush brand accepted by the ada for its effectiveness and safety. What an amazing clean ill only use an oralb oralb. Brush like a pro. Every curve, every innovation, every feeling. A product of mastery. Lease the 2019 es 350 for 379 a month for 36 months. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Unitedhealthcare medicare complete plans have a lot to take advantage of like medicares Largest Health care network. 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Eight Coal Companies have had to file for bankruptcy and now after donald trump claimed his priority would be bringing back coal, well, you can hear from the very own head of the Coal Miners Union about how its going. Coal is not back. Nobody saved the coal industry. Now thats a harsh fact and its a harsh reality. Heres some more reality. This summer coal miners actually came to washington and they asked for explicit help to shore up their pensions, something that is important to every coal family. They are, of course, in trouble as the industry has hemorrhaged. According to these reports, President Trumps response, basically silence. Nbc news shows a report that hes not really dealing with this in any public way at all now that its not a campaign slogan. This is a long ways from his earlier promises. My administration is putting an end to the war on coal. We are putting the coal miners back to work just like i promised. Coal is coming back. For those miners, get ready because youre going to be working your [ bleep ] off. We are back. The coal industry is back. It turns out that actually restoring coal jobs is harder than pretending to do them, just ask the actual coal miners. Im going to fit in a break and then we will be joined by a conservative who says that donald trump is unhinged and a danger to america and he has a way to stop him from even getting the republican nomination. Banjo . man hey. Go home. woman banjo sorry, it wont happen again. Come on, lets go home. After 10 years, weve covered a lot of miles. Good thing i got a subaru. man looks like you got out again, huh, banjo. avo love is out there. Find it in a subaru crosstrek. Doprevagen is the number oneild mempharmacistrecommendeding . Memory support brand. You can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. Should always be working harder. 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More republicans now not only breaking with trump but trying to stop him from getting the republican nomination. Now the rnc pushing back in a very fearful way, outright counselling republican primaries to make the field harder for those who would run against trump. One of those very challengers is former u. S. Congressman, joe walsh. He was a right wing radio talk show host, but he says hes had it with trump and hes now going to, quote, punch him every single day on the campaign trail. Joining me for his first appearance on the beat is president ial candidate joe walsh. Hey, ari, its great to be with you. Lets start here. A lot of folks have heard the democratic and progressive critique of President Trump. What do you argue is the best conservative critique against him . He believes and he acts like hes above the law and if you give him if we give him four more years, ari, heaven help this country. Look, ive been very blunt. I think hes unfit to be president , and i say that for two reasons. I believe virtually every time he opens his mouth he tells a lie and, ari, i dont believe hes capable, literally, of thinking about anyone but himself. You can see it with this hurricane. I mean, youre in my fellow americans in the carolinas are being pummelled by a major hurricane and this president has spent the last week whining about and complaining about how hes being treated by the media. Right. Advice a have i this hurricane. Right. Which is pretty wild. You say he lies all the time. The Washington Post counts it up. Im sure youve seen these figures, our viewers have. Yeah. It is an epidemic 12,000 false or misleading statements. It is a feature of the way he governs. Its part of the way hes responded to the hurricane. What do you say to your wouldbe Republican Voters, you want to win them over who say, well, thats just his style . You know what, my campaign, ari, is making a bet. I think hes unfit and i think privately most republicans feel the same way and theyre tired of his b. S. , theyre tired of his lies and his drama, they just dont say that publicly. Most of my former colleagues, ari, up on capitol hill, they agree with every single word im saying about trump. Then why dont they endorse you . Well, theyre scared to death of trump. Youre calling theyre scared of trump. You know whos not scared of you, im going to be blunt, yes, since you like to be blunt. A lot of the president s allies in the media. Take a look. The worst joe walsh ever. This is a guy who was more obnoxious, way more obnoxious early on than any right wing republican. He called obama a muslim, used the n word on twitter and may have owed his wife a mere 117,000 in child support. He probably would have a better shot with this joe walsh from the eagles. Its for publicity. His own selfpublicity. Is fox news wrong there . Yeah, hey, look, ari, i stopped paying attention to Donald Trumps sick o fans. I Pay Attention to what trump is doing. You mentioned it at the top. This is not north korea or russia. Donald trump is trying to eliminate elections. He wants to eliminate primary elections right now in four states, arizona, nevada, South Carolina and kansas. That is undemocratic b. S. Its wrong and thats the kind of thick that should piss off Republican Voters and, ari, if trumps not why . Go ahead. Why do you think they are literally, as you said, canceling primary elections for a sitting incumbent president , why are they doing that . Because i think, again, ari, maybe its not me. I think theyre scared to death of this president having any other name on a primary ballot against him because hes imploding day by day. I think theyre afraid. Yeah. Thats not a sign of strength. You want to eliminate elections . You want to take away the will of the people . Yeah. You dont do that if youre a big, strong guy. Let me play one more thing which is some very controversial remarks around the mlk march. Take a look. Ive got a dream that young black males dont become daddies until after theyre married and until after they have a job. How about that . I have a dream that blacks cease their dependency on government which has enslaved them to a life of poverty. Bottom line, were you wrong . No. Ari, i am obsessed with the issue of race, and its an issue i talk about a lot. Ive got a podcast with a black radio host from chicago. His name is mays jackson. Its called uncomfortable conversations. We talk about race and racism because i want blacks and whites dialogue. Sometimes, ari, im too provocative. I get that. When i step in it, i apologize. Contrast that with this guy in the white house who purposefully stokes racism and bigotry in the country. Ill run against that any day. Former congressman joe walsh, i appreciate you taking the questions. Thank you, ari. Thank you. 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With humira, control is possible. Its friday on the beat, so you know its time to fall back. I am joined now by producer and recording artist havoc from the Legendary Rap Group mob deep, which featured the late artist prodigy. They sold over 40 million records including a platinum album and three gold albums, and were also joined today by Washington Post columnist e. J. Dionne, the author of seven books. His latest is one nation after trump for the perplexed, disillusioned and desperate and not yet deported. One of the most influential journalists in all of washington. Havoc and ej, thanks for joining me tonight. Thanks for having me. Good to be with you. Great to have both of you together. You both look good together. E. J. , who needs to fall back on your list . I think that Boris Johnson first of all needs to fall back for his handling of brexit. He said that rather than delay leaving the eu, hed rather die in a ditch. I think hes already in a ditch. His brother, his brother has resigned from parliament because he doesnt disagree with him doesnt agree with him on this. And feels he cant be loyal to his family and his country at the same time. He has created a monstrous mess for britain and for himself, and i think falling back is the least he can do for all of us. And e. J. , briefly, there has been a lot of comparisons as boris as sort of the uks trump. But if thats true, they seem to be wising up to him even quicker than maybe trump in america. Well, Boris Johnson hasnt yet moved a hurricane hundreds of miles to a different place. So there is that. But, yeah, whats really striking is johnson expected that if he prorogeed parliament that he could get away with it. Parliament was just up in arms and said you cant take away our power like this. I think its significant that 21 conservatives bolted their party to vote against johnson. Yeah. Imagine if 21 republicans bolted their party right now to stand up to trump . That would make a rather substantial difference. I think its a great point you make. Well can learn a lot from other countries and other types of democracy. Lord knows our democracy isnt fully democratic, and in england they have a system that really does provide for people to disagree even within a party or ideology. Maybe we can learn something from that. Havoc, whats on your fallback list . Oh, man. On my fallback list today is the four geniuses that went to popeyes, demanding one of those famous chicken sandwiches, couldnt get it, so they pulled out a gun and demanded to get these sandwiches. I mean, i want to know whats in these sandwiches. I think we should hold a really big investigation about this. Maybe higher mueller to find out, you know, saying whats in these sandwiches. And maybe some more shoes will drop. Havoc, this story has everything about sort of 2019 america. People way too quick to pull a weapon. Thats a serious problem. People way too moved by buzz and social media and advertising. Thats a less serious problem. I know there was a lot of talk online about the chicken, but it, as i understand it, it is still just chicken. I mean, chicken is just chicken. But apparently this chicken is not just chicken. So somethings inside this chicken, and i think we need to hold an investigation. And we need to find who these people are, because theyre dangerous, theyre reckless, and a public nuisance. This is carrying love that chicken from popeyes way too far. Just too far. E. J. , what else is on your list at the end of this crazy week . Well, i was caught by a story about Ariana Grande, partly because i think Ariana Grande wrote the theme song for democrats trying to decide from a field of more than 20 candidates. Im referring to thank you, next. And there was a story in the New York Times that Ariana Grande is suing forever 21, claiming that forever 21 is trying to trick customers into thinking that grande endorses their product by posting photos of her on social media and using a model who it looks remarkably like her. And theyre playing off her new album seven rings. And here is an interesting fact and lawsuit, ari, that they are claiming, her lawyers, that a single Instagram Post from her is worth well into six figures. Thats just like the value of every one of your tweets. And i think that you know, that forever 21 should fallback. They have already gotten as much publicity out of this as they can. I think i am the last person ever to mention who would ever mention forever 21 on television. So theyve gotten a lot out of this already. Although you mention criticize, havoc, i wonder what you think. There is the sharing of what they sometimes call culture jamming in music. Right. But this isnt between artists saluting each other. This is like a company trying to trade off her name. I mean, i think the company should fallback. They shouldnt be trying to use her likeness in any form or fashion if theyre not, you know, paying her. You got to look out for her. Now before we go denies in any problem here, and theyre fighting the suit at least for now. I have to get in one personal piece of business we heard because our reporters and researchers researchers on the beat do their homework. We heard, havoc, your mother has a birthdays today. Mercedes. I would be remiss if i didnt say to mercedes a very happy birthday, and im so glad she let you come in on her birthday. We thank you her for that. Thank you for giving her the birthday shout out. Happy birthday. Thank you, e. J. Thats something i would say if i get it right, if i understand it rights, politics and hiphop have that in common, which is shout outs are important. Weve got to show love to the people who brought us here. A shout out to your mother. Thanks to havoc and e. J. For joining us on a fallback friday. Thank you. Thank you. And a shout out to everyone watching the beat. Sticking with us on this crazy wild week. That does it for us. Dont go anywhere, though, because hardball with Chris Matthews is up next. President sharpie. Lets play hardball. Good evening. Im Steve Kornacki in for Chris Matthews. Today marks the end of a confounding week in the trump presidency. It began after the president abruptly canceled his trip to poland so that he said he could monitor the looming threat of Hurricane Dorian at camp david. And yet he spent the better part of that threeday weekend at his resort outside of washington playing golf. Then there was the firestorm over Vice President mike pences trip to ireland. Pence stayed at a trump resort in the town of