Tonight, were reporting a rare announcement from the russia probe that confirms the fbi is now investigating an apparently credible plot to try to frame mueller. An effort to smear him in order to either discredit him or get him potentially even removed from the probe into collusion in the trump operation. This sounds big and unusual. Because its big and unusual. In a moment, i will be joined on the beat by someone who was approached by people apparently working on this scheme. First, here is exactly what we know. Multiple news outlets reporting on a plot by a republican linked operative trying to frame mueller on what appeared to be madeup allegations of either harassment or Sexual Misconduct that would be pushed against mueller. The atlantic reporting the details from a woman who recounted this explosive offer, up to 20,000 to make accusations of workplace misconduct against mueller. She said they would be false and an republican offered to pay off, quote, all my Credit Card Debt and bring me a check for 20,000 if i would do it. So far, shes not doing it. Also, to cover any potential tracks this offer came from someone refusing to use a normal phone line but asking her instead to talk on an encrypted app to evade authorities. He said i want you to make accusations of Sexual Misconduct and workplace harassment against mueller and sign a sworn affidavit to that effect. Other evidence matches this account because berkman released a video online last week trying to smear mueller along these kind of lines. Now, im not airing the audio of his words in our reporting from the video because thats not the headline. The headline tonight is that the smear plot itself is now under fbi investigation. Thats brandnew. Not that theres any evidence supporting the smears apparently linked to berkman. While the fallout from this quite strange story is obviously still reverberating because this is all brandnew, legal experts and some white house veterans already noting that if the order of what i just told you had been reversed, if, for example, the world first learned about this kind of accusation in theory against mueller before these leaks about its potentially illegal framing, well, it could have upended his career and the probe into the heart of the trump presidency. The kind of accusation that can ruin someones life. They were peddling Something Like this, and even their coconspirator, the woman, had the i guess wherewithal to confess to reporters on the phone she was offered a lot of money to smear Robert Mueller. As for what i mentioned, the special counsels office rarely says something on the record, certainly outside of the cases its pursuing, but not tonight. Muellers chief spokesperson going on the record stating, quote, when we learned last week of allegations that women were offered money to make false claims about the special counsel, we immediately referred the matter to the fbi for investigation. Peter carr, chief spokesman to bob mueller. In a moment, ill be joined exclusively by a law professor who was also approached in the smear against mueller. I begin with prosecutors, former watergate prosecutor Nick Ackerman and former federal prosecutor john flannery. Nick, when you look at this unusual announcement and this unusual plot, what does it tell you that muellers office is speaking on the record and referring it to the fbi tonight . I think this is very important for the public to know. I mean, this is a situation where everything has been thrown at Robert Mueller. They have tried to undermine him through the congress. They have tried to undermine the manafort jury deliberation. You had one juror even referring to the whole investigation as a witch hunt, copying basically what giuliani and trump have been saying. They have tried everything. So it does not surprise me that they would go to this length of trying to obstruct this entire investigation by going directly after mueller. You said they. Tonight, were looking at this plot to make false smears, sexual accusations against bob mueller, who are they . First, theres berkman. Theres the Investigative Firm that hes working for. Somebodys financing this. Somebody he is not doing this on his own. If you have an fbi investigation, theyre going to be looking at everybody that is involved in this plot. You worked on the watergate investigation. There was a lot of talk there about money for political and counterespionage efforts in the u. S. That looked sloppy and the money led really high. Do you think thats something the fbi is going to look at here . Absolutely. This is exactly whats going on. This is like the end result of the meeting that occurred in attorney general mitchells office at the beginning of this whole watergate scandal where they were looking at ways to try to undermine people, compromise people, and to create false stories. Let me bring in john flannery. Does the conduct described here, a breaking story, theres much we dont know, and as i say, were talking about one name on the record, this republican linked conspiracy theorist, but does the conduct described in the reports look to you like a potential crime . Yes, it is. I mean, the obvious is a continuation of the obstruction of the investigation. They have not really been able to lay a finger on mr. Mueller. In fact, everybody started with praise for him. But now, as the election is about to end and hes about to reactivate his office and to do who knows what with all sorts of suspicion about likely targets and reports, i think its time to reup and to find a way to attack him. And there are provisions both obviously use the conspiracy code, and that could be ove overt acts dont have to be cri crimes, but there are several provisions in obstruction of justice where youre impeding or threatening or harassing or trying to affect or influence an investigation, or an officer. In this case, perhaps mr. Mueller. And there are very serious penalties involved. A lot of these people, if they have done this, and thats the hypothetical, the investigative hypothetical, did berkman and others with sources of funds from whomever actually try to influence the investigation by false attacks against the chief investigator, mr. Mueller himself . If so, thats big news. Who has 20,000 lying around to pursue this . Isnt just a conspiracy tweet, as reported. Right, well, also, i dont know what her Credit Card Debt is, and if there are women as have been reported, that is that they want to look and see what women were affected in this, thats more than the one person that we have seen figured in todays releases and press. And it does seem to be linked back to berkman, having the sense that hes announcing on november 1st were going to know whats happening. And in the past, hes offered 25,000 to anybody who would give any dirt on the fbi in connection with this ongoing investigation. So he has a track record which makes him a highly suspicious character worth investigating by the fbi. Let me pull on the thread as promised to the audience. John, stay with me, nick, thank you as always for joining us on a busy night. I have an exclusive right now. Jennifer tobb said she was personally targeted as part of this plot. She says a man approached her offering to compensate her for this kind of dirt on mueller, and jennifer joins me now. Thanks for joining me tonight. Im glad to be here. Thank you, ari. I think you may have some information that is of interest to people as we pull on these threads. Im going to start by reading what you have provided to our newsroom here at the beat. October 22nd email. A man kax you claiming to work for sure fire intelligence and says its my understanding you may have had past encounters with bob mueller. I would like to discuss these with you. I believe a basic call which i would compensate you for would be a good place to start. Reading continuing this, he says my organizations conducting an examination of muellers past. Tell me a decent method to contact you by telephone or signal, and a beginning rate to talk with you about all encounters you had with special counsel mueller. Goes on to say we would likewise pay you for any references you have and appreciate your discretion. Its very sensitive. What did you make of that inquiry . I found it really creepy, to be honest with you. And immediately upon reading it, i went on the internet to try to find a phone number or some other method to contact the special counsels office. And all i could find was an email, so i immediately forwarded the email. Just so i should add, i have never met Robert Mueller. Had no encounters, no phone calls, stow i dont know him at all. You dont know jennifer, you dont know bob mueller, and you dont know why they came to you other than i suppose that as a law professor, youre in this space . I have no idea why they came to me. I mean, one thing im thinking is i had published an oped a few weeks earlier about the kavanaugh hearings. Maybe thats how my name got to these people. But certainly, im the last person you would want to send something to. I found the end of the email, they said something about please be discreet or keep this confidential. I found that so amusing the minute i pressed send to send it off to the special counsels office so they could look into it. I want to say one other thing. I want to get these facts out. When did you send it to muellers office, and did you hear back . I immediately sent it. I dont know how many as soon as i could find the email address, i sent it. And then i didnt hear back. But i didnt really expect to hear back. Im not sure. I assumed this was odd enough that i assumed i was not the only person being contacted. And i imagined probably other people had done the same and they were investigating it. And then we got overtaken by the terrible events of last week, and i didnt think much more about it until today. Did you view this inquiry as an effort to discredit him or find false material to attack him . I thought it was either that or some kind of setup of me. You know, sometimes we get very strange emails from people. But i was concerned enough about it that i took a screen shot and shared it with two friends. I have never shared a screen shot of a random email, but i shared it with a law professor and a former federal prosecutor. Thats actually how i even found out about this today. I was teaching all day, and they happened to see the story that Natasha Bertrand put out and asked me sure, at the atlantic, which we quoted in our report, and shes a contributor here as well. You mentioned other former prosecutors. John flannery is one. A final thought on this or a brief question for jennifer if you have one. The brief question is, if they chose you and you had no relationship, it doesnt show much investigation. Maybe they just hope that you would make a complaint and create a bogus story in terms of the dimensions of accusations against the special prosecutor without any real evidence that any such thing occurred. And they were just hoping that it would feed the altright sound machine of attacking and believe to be true, attacking mueller so that in the days ahead when he does do something, theyll try to discredit it. I guess they hoped that when i say they, Rudy Giuliani and company, hope that the only attack on the president could be a report for impeachment that may or may not be made public, it may or may not be acted on. Theres so much flying around. Youre referencing the wider pushback from the white house. Were not reporting any link whatsoever regarding his counsel and the attacks they have publicly made on mueller and this very new, very explosive situation. Thanks to jennifer for telling us about her side of the story. John flannery for your expert e expertise. We have lot more on this right now. Another bombshell breaking in the Mueller Probe is yes, there are tapes and mueller has them. Hes listening to roger stones confrjs calls from 2016 where hes heard saying he was at the time in touch with Julian Assange and revealing plans about the hacked emails before the election. Shelby holiday broke this story. Here, though, first, is roger stone on that conference call, august 4th, 2016. In the background of this entire race going forward, the fact that Julian Assange, who say anything you want about him, hes not a fool, is going to continue to drop information on the American Voters that are going to roil this race. He has made that very clear. That same day, stone sent former trump adviser sam nunberg an email that stated, i, quote, dined with mew nigh pal Julian Assange last night. Stone later said that was just a joke, but it was sfebt days after that that he tweeted to the world, quoteerse trust me. It will soon be podestas time in the barrel. We know he focused on stones links to wikileaks and interviewed people about the calls. They were promoted as a call with the Political Insider there. Stone has denied advance knowledge of hacked emails. Let me be very clear. I had no advance knowledge of the source, content, or the exact disclosure timing of the wikileaks disclosures regarding the dnc. I received nothing, including allegedly hacked emails from wikileaks or Julian Assange or the russians or anyone else. Question is, if he was making all these claims in public and on these Conference Calls, was any of it going back to the people running the Trump Campaign . Well, i have news on that as well. Bob muellers team questioning steve bannon about these very claims that stone made privately about wikileaks. Thats also new tonight. A busy time. Shelby holliday who broke the story put this in context for us. So we know that were reporting today that Robert Mueller has subpoenaed people and records affiliated with these Conference Calls that roger stone held. They were started in august and promoted as biweekly Conference Calls with the man in the arena. You showed that graphic. And on them, he would talk about his relationship and friendship with paul manafort. He would talk about the inner workers of the Trump Campaign. He was an insider in that he had connections to the Trump Campaign and he talked about them on the calls. He also talked a lot about wikileaks plans to release emails and he used the quote, roil this race. And a witness in the probe, jason sullivan, who helped him organize the calls said he claimed contact with Julian Assange. Is the idea that him claiming it privately more operationally feels more real than what could be dismissed as public boast sng. Thats possible, but it also could be mueller scrutinizing the number of times roger stone claimed contact with assange. Roger now says he never had contact with assange. But beginning in early august, he talked a lot about being in touch with assange, having a foreshadowing of the materials assange would release. He went on Alex Jones Show and said he knew what was coming but he couldnt say too much. Now it appears that mueller is looking at every single statement and scrutinizing what he said publicly or privately. Youre being very careful, as you often are meticulous about it, yet david corn who is also with me, theres another way to look at what shelby is saying, because if someone just lies a lot, whoever they may be, investigators find, oh, they lied five times or ten. Thats not altogether more interesting the tenth time. If, though, theres a different context, if theyre interviewing bannon, who has already been in for several days because they actually think some of these werent lies, wouldnt it be worse potentially for stone and anyone who worked with him. I guess if you can get people testifying to private communications, particularly people who are in a position of trust with roger stone, then that may have more weight than him just saying what he says on Alex Jones Show or in these conferences in which hes trying to basically separate people from their money. Roger stones defense at this moment in time is that i am the worlds biggest liar. I publicly said again and again that i was in touch with Julian Assange, i knew what he was doing. Be honest, david. Do you find that a potentially credible defense . Unfortunately, some people, with roger stone, it is credible. Was that a yes . David corn, was that a yes . Yes, it is a yes. Because he is known for lying and being a provocateur and saying whatever he thinks is necessary to say at that moment in time. Particularly as a selfpromoter. At the same time he was doing all this, he was also in touch with gus affccifer 2. 0, and in public, he was saying the russians are not involved with this at all. Hes writing a story for breitbart and going on and on, defending the russians and amplifying russian misinformation. So theres a lot, not just on the wikileaks sield, but on the russian side, for roger to account for. What do you think of bannon being hauled in . Its really interesting because as we have been reporting at the journal, mueller continues to bring stone associated in front of the grand jury and in front of muellers prosecutors. We know that some of his associates are still talking to mueller. We know they are scrutinizing every comment roger stone made in that time, so steve bannon coming in is significant not just because we know theyre focused on roger stone, but because he was actually running Trumps Campaign and thats the big question here, was there collusion between the Trump Campaign and russia . Visavis wikileaks. And david, before i let you go, your final thought on this bizarre effort thats clearly of interest in washington to try to frame bob mueller . You know, i think we still need to figure this out. It could be that the original letter was some sort of hoax to hook in reporter, to report in something that wasnt true, but your guest coming on and saying she too was approached and theres a surefire outfit that really seems to be a bogus intelligence gathering outfit run by people who are completely unprofessional, theres a lot more here. Reminds me of the peter smith effort. Remember that during the campaign . Which rachel covered a lot. To try to get the Hillary Clinton emails from russian hackers. There are all these players out there. We see them in every scandal. Im hoping the fbi can get to the bottom of it, but if the democrats get the house back, this is just one more thing for them to investigate because we may never hear what the fbi finds out about this subject. And david and shelby, thank you so much. Coming up on a breakdown, Donald Trumps political promises that arent possible to fulfill, and im going to sheyou what happens when trumps fox news propaganda is debunked on fox news. There is no invasion. No one is coming to get you. Theres nothing at all to worry about. And the one and only joy behar is here on the show. Cant wait to see her. Shes going to talk old trump, new politics. Im ari melber and youre watching the beat. Can make you feel like you have no limits. But mania, such as unusual changes in your mood, activity or energy levels, can leave you on. Shaky ground. Help take control by asking your Healthcare Provider about vraylar. Vraylar treats acute mania of bipolar i disorder. Vraylar significantly reduces overall manic symptoms, and was proven in adults with mixed episodes who have both mania and depression. Vraylar should not be used in elderly patients with dementia, due to increased risk of death or stroke. Call your doctor about fever, stiff muscles, or confusion, which may mean a lifethreatening reaction or uncontrollable muscle movements, which may be permanent. Side effects may not appear for several weeks. High cholesterol and weight gain; high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death; decreased white blood cells, which can be fatal; dizziness upon standing; falls; seizures; impaired judgement; heat sensitivity; and trouble swallowing may occur. Youre more than just your bipolar i. Ask about vraylar. But allstate helps you. With drivewise. Feedback that helps you drive safer. And that can lower your cost now that you know the truth. Are you in good hands . With my bladder leakage, the products ive tried just didnt fit right. They were too loose. Its getting in the way of our camping trips. But with a range of sizes, depend fitflex is made for me. With a range of sizes for all body types, depend fitflex underwear is guaranteed to be your best fit. A peaceful night sleep without only imagine. Frequent heartburn waking him up. Now that dream is a reality. Nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for allday, allnight protection. Can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn . Unstopand its strengthenedting place, the by xfi pods,gateway. Which plug in to extend the wifi even farther, past anything that stands in its way. Well almost anything. Leave no room behind with xfi pods. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Click or visit a retail store today. This very hour, millions of americans will be watching the polls close on tv and tracking clues for what kind of Election Night it will be. Will it be another 2016, a long night with a surprise for most politicos. Will it be a 2006 midterm backlash to a controversial president that hand the speaker gavel back to nancy pelosi . We never know until Election Night, but the clues show despite Donald Trumps attempts to troll and outrage his way into the headlines, the fundamentals show strategists in both parties see the democrats on offense. So yes, watch what the politicians do, not what they say. Trump has been talking about a host of lastminute midterm ploys, but his partys spending and battle plan shows a scramble to protect candidates even in red districts that overwhelmingly back trump. Take this Kentucky District that went for trump by 15 points. Republicans sent paul ryan there today, deploying star power to a place that was once a safe seat. Same story in red south carolina, a district that went for trump by 13 points. Now the gop is buying ads there. So yes, theres plenty of noise about these trump rallies. But look. They are in these red places. Playing defense. As for the swing districts that went for trump last time, democrats just pulled up five points in a key new york race. Thats one of the places where independents are the key. And more than half of them now disapprove of trump. Or take a red district that featured the tea party insurgency, where dave brat once unseated a top republican, eric cantor. Now hes in a dead heat with his democratic challenger. A quarter of voters there are independent and most disapprove, you guessed it, of donald trump. So those are the races that could determine control of the house. Swing districts packed with independents. If donald trump is such a Great Campaign asset, if his closing instincts are so good, surely he and the gop are deploying him in those key districts, right . Wrong. And this is one of the largest signs of the political weakness for trump right now. Yes, of course, hes campaigning and insulting and shouting, but hes doing all of it at a huge distance away from these key districts. And thats crucial for separating the signal from the noise. Here are the places youre looking at right now where donald trump has been holding this Campaign Rallies in the midterm homestretch the last two months. Theyre almost all in states he won in 2016. So hes actually sticking to defending red states where he retains support, not taking his message to those swing districts, let alone going on offense to win back any blue districts. So yes, trumps holding lots of rallies, but no, theyre not generally in places likely to decide who wins the house a week from tonight. And while we know trump loves spending money to put his name on anything, buildings, tv screens, whatever, consider how bad he knows hes doing in these districts that he just approved his 2020 campaign spend 6 million on new ads this week that dont even mention him. We have all heard of the witness protection program. This is kind of a president protection program. Where he can kind of go underground. His former aide told us this is a necessity because even republicans in the swing districts dont like him. In terms of republican suburban or republican independent leaning women, what we have seen is, one, they do not like donald trump. They dont like the tweeting, they dont like the personality. Its too much for them. Its too much. So trumps Closing Argument is on defense. In red states, for red states, with talk of immigration orders that he doesnt have the power to order and ploys like sending troops to the border this week before the midterms for a caravan that is two months away. A fact check so glaring it even occurred within the confines of fox news. You have a highly organized, motivated, and undocumented trove of migrants headed straight to the United States as we speak. Where are they from . Who brought them here . Why are they coming here . An obvious major security concern for the country. The migrants, according to fox news reporting, are more than two months away. If any of them actually come here. But tomorrow is one week before the midterm election. Which is what all of this is about. There is no invasion. No one is coming to get you. Theres nothing at all to worry about. When your red meat message is getting grilled by your own side, you may have a problem. And when youre one of the worlds most well known selfpromoters and youre spending millions of dollars on ads so you can hide in plain sight, you may know you have a problem. That doesnt mean anyone, certainly not me, knows whats going to happen a week from tonight, because it depends on what everyone does a week from today. Thats the great thing about democracy. But sometimes in politics, just like in a bar, the loudest person in the room isnt actually that confident and isnt actually ready to win a big fight. Im going to get into all of this and a whole lot more when the one and only joy bay behar joined me. As proms, were back with the one and only joy behar, cohost of the view, a long time friend of mine. Ia came to my birthday show at the view. That was so sweet. Your first time on the beat. Thank you for coming in. Youre quite welcome. I want to start by looking at all of the fun and action, Political Action youve had in some of your time on the view. Lets take a look. Okay. Were back with senator john mccain. You stood up to that. Why are you so different from everybody else . You know a lot about politics, a lot about the law, but do you know about pop culture. We need you to stay engaged. We need you guys to keep it going. I dont know where that is today in the Republican Party so im not comfortable being a part of it. Which part bothers you. Its a give and take, not just from the administration, but also from the news media. Is the media not supposed to report on the fact that 95 of what he says is a lie . You say in the book you should have said this or shouldnt have done that. Say it now. Say it. We got you something that you can just wear from now on. Back up. You get to see a lot more of these people up close than most americans. Yes. What have you learned seeing our politics up close in this country . Everybody is in the best behavior at the view and theyre scared of us, too. You dont seem that scary. Im not scared. You mean scary . Yeah. They dont know whats going to happen, what were going to say. I mean, even joe biden years and years ago told me he would much rather go on meet the press that the view because meet the press is very, the view is its bah bah bah versus whats the second one . By the way, can we give a shout out to that woman who told the fbi or told whoever . Jennifer tobb. They were telling her to say that mueller sexually harassed her. Can you believe that . Hes now inoculated against the Sexual Harassment claim because no one is going to believe it now. We had the headline up here, and it said a plot to frame mueller. Thats where we are. I would like to say salute that lady. Because she knew what to do and reported it, and now as you say, inoculated. I want to show some of your times with donald trump on the view over the years. I know him. I went to his second wedding to marla. They say the second wedding is a best one. There wasnt a wet eye in the room. You have also at times gotten along with him, as you have known. Who knew he was such a psycho. I liked the guy in a way, like hes a new york character. Character, yeah. I think that the funny thing about i grew up on the west coast, but you spend time in new york and you see some of this people up close and its different than the way the rest of the country might see them at a distance, perfectly coifed and well presented on a reality show. Well, new york, as you know probably, did not vote for him. I heard that. Because we knew we know. I didnt know you were bringing news updates tonight. Sometimes i have to do that. You know, we know the beast. We knew him. We get it, just like Michael Bloomberg said, i know a con man when i see one. New yorkers are hip to it. The rest of the country, they really didnt know him the way we do. Here, lets look at you and him over the years. All right. He says its his own hair. So i believe him because i believe donald. Hes an upstanding american, but america doesnt belief him. Come here. Check it out. Its true. Its real. Its not very pretty, but its real. If youre known as a patsy, as somebody who takes it, i think its terrible. But the adhomnn attacks are really not effective. Do you think he knew what adhomonym meant . No, but hell pick up one of the things because he is a real creative con type of salesman, hell pick up anything you say. You say it, hell say it back to you. Fake news was a term that was used to describe the right wing articles that spread on facebook in october that helped him. And after he heard the criticism, he grabbed it. Now everyone thinks its his term. He goes i guess i won. Also, lock her up and build the wall, i think somebody mentioned to him at the beginning of one of his rallies. Thats good because they responded to it. He doesnt have his own mind. He picks up, as you say. But did he change from what we just saw . Obviously, i never thought that he would be this bad, never. Even before he won, i said, well, if he wins, god forbid, he cant be really such a maniac. Hes much worse. A lot of people said, well, if he wins, he would get a little better, more responsible. You think hes worse. I think hes worse. I thought he was also a secret democrat, which he shows us hes not. Hes just an anarchist as far as im concerned. I dont mean that in an adhomnn sort of way. I also want to talk to you about democrats. People love you, people really love you. Not everybody. The right wing hates my guts. Here where im going. As we say in the business, run and tell that. Im going to run and tell you that a lot of democrats love you. A lot of your viewers love you. And yet can you always give the love back when you see that there are mistakes that the Democratic Party does seem to make . I want to play for you, we put this together, just some of the questionable calls over the course of just the trump era and the question being for your consideration, do you really think the same people should be back in charge after the elections, especially if they take back the house . Take a look. All right, ari. The government this morning is back at work, and boy, is there a lot to do. Democrats are divided with some upset Chuck Schumer didnt fight longer to protect dreamers. Democrats raised the prospect, raised hopes by sticking together through the shutdown and sticking to their principles they could somehow get protection for the dreamers passed into law. That obviously didnt happen. Well, look, we have advanced the cause. Joe manchin is speaking. He Just Announced his support for brett kavanaugh. I gave my reasons for my decision. I had to deal with the facts in front of me. Chuck schumer somewhat inexplicably cut a huge deal. The democrats agreed to essentially wave through 15 trump judicial nominees. What grade do you give Chuck Schumer and nancy pelosi . Well, nancy has been very effective in her job over the years. I understand. I mean, im not in the nittygritty of what goes on there, but shes been very good. And i like nancy. I think that, you know, its time to probably move on a little bit. People do get older. Who would you get rid of first, chuck or nancy . Chuck, last time he was on the view he came alive, like wow. He was actually animated and everything. I didnt think he was doing this bit, which hello, chuck, if youre reading, yes, but when youre reading a prompter, you dont need them. Take them off. When you see them get outworked and then he says, oh, i made a deal with Mitch Mcconnell on these judges, and then they get worked over. Then he says, theyre not being fair. Because they dont play with the same marbles. The republicans are vicious. Mitch mcconnell, i dont want to talk about him. I think you have him on i chose him for your throwback person. Fallback. Fallback person, thats it. I chose him. Because to me, hes like an improv comic. He makes up as he goes along. Today, i think ill change this rule and i think ill change that law, and everybody says okay. He just gets away with it. Does he get away with it because the democrats dont fight hard enough . They dont have any power. We know they have no power right now. Hopefully, im making an ovina that next tuesday theyll get some power back so we can do something, turn the lights on with some power, you know. But hes feckless. Can i show you also before we go, can i show you fred armisen doing you on snl. Some day, i pray a woman will be imitating me. Fair, im dapping you. Thats fair. Lets take a look. As if we have never seen this. You know what i always say . You know what i say . Who cares . Just go out and have a glass of pineio grigio. So what . He has captured my philosophy. So what. Dont sweat the small stuff. Isnt that your essence and you can banter with so many people across politics and culture. And not care. I care a lot. I care a lot. You care a lot. Sleepless nights. You care in a nice, authentic way. You dont demean. Other people . I try not to. Well, you know, its hard not to with the president pinocchio in the white house. Come on. You know what your being right now . What . Ad homonym. Are we done . Snare theyre telling me we of time. You know how it works. You have Something Else . Im done. Are we done . Im done. You know what . Who cares . So what, were done. Joy behar, thank you for coming by. You have been begging me to come op. Was it good for you . Youre asking me was the segment good for me . I think it was great. All right, thats all that counts. I have been begging you. Youre letting the audience in, because we have known each other a long time. I said come on the show, and then a year in, you hadnt come on the show. They call me up, say come wish joy a happy birthday. I would love to. I would also love it to be mutual. Whens your birthday . March. Ill be there. Okay. All right. Joy behar, the one and only. Coming up, the democratic strategy in the face of some ugly rhetoric. Do you know how the caravan started . I think the democrats had something to do with it. And in that caravan, you have some very bad people. But how do you actually address and confront that without playing into trumps hands . We have a very special guest, george lacoff, the framing master, and bill kristol coming up. G, a little bit of water, it really it rocked our world. I had no idea the amount of damage that water could do. We called usaa. And they greeted me as they always do. Sergeant baker, how are you . They were on it. It was unbelievable. Having insurance is something everyone needs, but having usaa now thats a privilege. Were the bakers and were usaa members for life. Usaa. Get your insurance quote today. What if numbers tell onat t. Rowe pricey . Our experts go beyond the numbers to examine Investment Opportunities firsthand. Like ecommerce spurring cardboard demand. The pursuit of allergyfree peanuts. And mobile payment reaching new markets. This is strategic investing. Because your investments deserve the full story. T. Rowe price. Invest with confidence. Look what shes accomplished. She authored the ban on assault weapons. Pushed the desert protection act through congress, and steered billions of federal dollars to california projects such as subway construction and wildfire restoration. She. Played an Important Role in fighting off. Trumps efforts to kill the Affordable Care act. California news papers endorse Dianne Feinstein for us senate. California values senator Dianne Feinstein a catch 22 for the trump era that you have probably talked about once or twice. How do you respond to him without playing into his hands . Trump today proposing one of the hardest lines ever on immigration. He says he would try to overturn birth right citizenship. He doesnt have the power to do that, so its another ploy. And that in a sense is similar to many of trumps midterm messages. Claiming democrats are an angry mob or theyre secretly paying for that caravan or saying the caravan includes middle eastern terrorists. Going to the middle of the caravan, take your cameras, and search. Youre going to find ms13. Youre going to find middle eastern. Youre going to find everything. Are you saying you have evidence that there are terrorists in the caravan right now . Over the course of the year, over the course of a number of years, theyve intercepted many people from the middle east. They intercept they could very well be. Theres no proof of anything. Theres no proof of anything. Theres no proof of anything. Theres actually proof that that is false. And probably a lie. George lakoff is an expert on these debates and the language of political framing. Hes the author of dont think of an elephant, know your values. Frame the debate, and bill kristol joins me as well. Professor, you know the debate. What is the solution . First, what to avoid. Avoid negating, as in dont think of an elephant. Dont just negate a frame because that just helped the frame. What you do instead is you introduce your own frame. You know, if youre going to talk about the caravan, you talk about a caravan of people who are fleeing poverty and gangs and crime looking to work hard, earn a decent living, and be free. You know, impose your frame. Another thing, if youre in the media, theres a very important thing to do. Use truth sandwiches. Start with the truth. If theres a lie, what you do is give them the truth, you expose the lie, say what it is. Say the truth again, and then follow that up with the consequence of why the truth matters as opposed to the lie. Youre making bill kristol hungry. Thats a complicated recipe there for politics. Im not an expert on this, and honestly, given my failure to stop trump in 2016 and 2015 and other political failures, im not sure im the best person to speak on how to counteract that rhetoric, but i think you need to call modesty . Whats happening . A rare moment after joy behar and all that, im intimidated to bow on this very show. I just do think at the end of the day for the sake of our public discourse, you have to call lies lies. You just need to say it. Now, maybe there are more skillful and less skillful ways to say it politically, but you cannot let him demonize immigrants, talk about them as less than human beings, you know, just whip up anger and anxiety. We have seen the consequences of this in the last week, and people need to stand up, serious people need to stand up, and people who are not simple idealogical opponents of his and call them lies. Its great that democrats are standing up to trump, but if i were running a congressional race, i would find Republican Voters and find republicans in that district, actual people, and put them on the air and say, i usually vote republican. Thats where i have been most of my life, but i cannot vote for this man. That i think is a little more effective than someone on the other side simply saying, boy, trump is getting worse and worse every day. And george, you mentioned truth, which fits into journalists and other people in that role. For opponents of trump, be they political electoral opponents or the socalled resistance, is it also about changing the subject . Debating the caravan, which is a far away thing, isnt really the most important thing in the country. Right . Changing the subject is very important. That is part of what reframing is. Saying what you think is most important and getting it out there. I want to read a little bit of one of your essays. Trump covering for the gop. And you write, trump provides cover for republicans, draws fire from progressives, protecting republicans. Attacks on trump arent directed at republicans as long as trump is the enemy, republicans are not. Thats so well stated. We have done reporting on this show about a lot of the wider agenda. Looking at whats happening with obamacare, which we hit several times this week, looking at paul ryan on deficits. It seems by being a stylistic out outlier, trump has given them that support, which you identify. Trump gives cover to republicans. Republicans are saying all the same things. Theyre saying all of the things that support trump. 85 of republicans are protrump. But that doesnt come out as such. Trump is taking the heat, and he knows how to take it well. And to turn it back. But hes damaging republicans. Republicans are going to lose the house of representatives because of trump. The gender gap is a trump specific thing. Republicans have held the house for what, 24 of the last 28 years. 20 of the last 24. The house is to their advantage in terms of the districts and so forth. Yet i think trump is going to cost them the house. Im not so sure trump is so wonderful for republicans ultimately and not so sure its unwise for democrats at times then to hold republicans responsible for what trump is doing. Because hes been lucky so far with the economy. Hes kind of lucky in foreign policy, but at the end of the day, trump is not going to succeed. Reality does matter. And if i were a democrat, i would, you know, make the case against trump rather than sort of try to avoid dealing with him. Joerm, we have about 20 seconds left, can you speak to that . Does reality matter . Reality matters. And republicans have supported trump. They have legislatively supported trump. And they have supported trump in the media. So, you know, its just false that they have been against trump. I dont hear a whole lot of republican criticism of trump. This has been interesting. And well do it again and maybe even with more time and look, i think reality does matter. Im going to land on that side of that particular debate. Bill and george, thank you both. Still ahead, oprah weighing in on the midterms. Well show it to you next. Ito take care of anyct messy situations. And put irritation in its place. And if i can get comfortable keeping this tookus safe and protected. You can get comfortable doing the same with yours. Preparation h. Get comfortable with it. So its no wonder we announced our new 9grain wheat subdients. In the middle of a wheat field. When youve got news this big, its not enough to just add it to the menu. Wheres the freak yeah in that . To celebrate a new sandwich with a taste so inspired, we introduced it in the place that inspired it. The new jimmy johns 9grain wheat sub, now available at a jimmy johns much, much, much closer to you. Wheat yeah freak yeah™ everybody wants a new, different, better world. Heres to the people who do what it takes to build it. To keep it running. The people who understand no matter what the question, the obstacle or the challenge, theres only one answer. Lets do the work. engine starts, hums you might or joints. Hing for your heart. Lets do the work. But do you take something for your brain. With an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish, prevagen has been shown in Clinical Trials to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. Were independent and we know that weve lived long enough to understand that this is a really important moment in our country. Democracy depends on it. Okay. Not only democracy depends upon it, our country depends upon it. So vote, vote, vote. Vote im not going to do that. November 6th, please vote. Oprah winfrey making waves tonight with new message on the mid terms. Vote. Women are expected to be a crucial factor. Tomorrow well have a panel of women candidates. Take a look if this could be another year of the woman. Its an important conversation. Well bring it to you tomorrow live at 6 00 p. M. Eastern on the beat. Well be right back. Lets begin. Yes or no . Do you want the same tools and seamless experience across web and tablet . Do you want 4. 95 commissions for stocks, 0. 50 options contracts . 1. 50 futures contracts . What about a dedicated service team of trading specialists . Did you say yes . Good, then its time for power e trade. The platform, price and service that gives you the edge you need. Looks like we have a couple seconds left. Lets do some card twirling twirling cards e trade. The original place to invest online. Their medicare options. Before theyre on medicare. Come on in. Youre turning 65 soon . Yep. And youre retiring at 67 . Thats the plan well, youve come to the right place. Its also a great time to learn about an aarp Medicare Supplement insurance plan, insured by Unitedhealthcare Insurance Company. Heres why. Medicare part b doesnt pay for everything. Only about 80 of your medical costs. This part is up to you. Yeah, everyones a little surprised to learn that one. A Medicare Supplement plan helps pay for some of what medicare doesnt. That could help cut down on those outofyourpocket medical costs. Call Unitedhealthcare Insurance Company now or visit aarpmedicaresupplement. Com for your free decision guide about the only Medicare Supplement plans endorsed by aarp. Selected for meeting their high standards of quality and service. This type of plan lets you say yes to any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. There are no networks or referrals to worry about. Do you accept medicare patients . I sure do see . Youre able to stick with him. Like to travel . This kind of plan goes with you anywhere you travel in the country. So go ahead, spend winter somewhere warm. If youre turning 65 soon or over 65 and planning to retire, find out more about the plans that live up to their name. Thumbs up to that remember, the time to prepare is before you go on medicare dont wait. Get started today. To learn more about the range of aarp Medicare Supplement plans and their rates, call or go online today to request your free decision guide. Oh, and happy birthday. Or retirement. In advance. Go. Take off to the big city. Find fortune. Romance. Find freedom, just one touch away. Because the sky has no limit. During jeep adventure days get 0 apr financing for 60 months plus 1000 bonus cash on all 2019 Jeep Cherokee models. Big news leading off our show tonight that bob muellers team had brought back steve bannon for a new interview on friday. Thats interesting given the roger stone heat. Heres what bannon told me this summer about the way that he is a witness in the probe. Were you a witness of fact to the investigation regarding obstruction or collusion or both . I think im a witness of fact for all of it. I think im a witness of fact for all of it. When they call you up there, they dont bifurcate, they go through the whole thing. Ive been to capitol hill a few times. Im a witness of fact up there. How many times did you talk to muellers investigators . I dont want to go into the details. I had a thorough session. Several days. Several days, that was when we spoke earlier. You can add another one because bob muellers called bannon back. That does it for us. Ha hardball with Chris Matthews is up next. One week from today americans head to the polls for an historic election that will determine the balance of power in congress. Im not on the ballot but in a certain way im on the ballot. It will either create a check on president trumps power or embolden him. Im really looking to make America Great again. And it could all come down to texas. Do we defend freedom or do we give in to tyranny . Ted cruz has the backing of his former bitter rival. Hes not lying ted anymore, hes beautiful ted. But beto orourke has caught fire. I