Gender representation and feminism could impact where this story goes and what happens in any hearing. Tonight, i am joined by the journalist who originally broke the anita hill story. Also tonight, bob mueller making another move, pressing forward with the jail sentencing for jail flynn as well new fallout from the Paul Manafort guilty plea. We begin with breaking news. Republican senator john kennedy, a member of the judiciary kennedy, is now saying there will be a public hearing with judge Brett Kavanaugh and his accuser, Christine Ford. So that is breaking right now. Pressure coming from republicans in the senate about how to deal with what has upended the entire Supreme Court confirmation process. And then theres the news that Steve Kornacki just mentioned, moments ago the white house saying judge kavanaugh is ready to testify in an open hearing as soon as tomorrow. That is not typical language or planning for something this explosive, and that is our top story tonight. Lets get into it. The factual, legal, and political onslaught against judge kavanaugh has changed everything right now in washington. He did appear to triumph through days of senate hearings, only to find himself holted up at the white house most of today, several hours as he tried to salvage his nomination. Here are the facts the anonymous accuser who made waves last week has come forward under her own name. Shes professor Christine Ford and makes specific allegations that at a High School Party in 1982, kavanaugh pinned her to a bed, groped her and tried to remove her clothing. Then she says when she was trying to scream, he put his hand over her mouth. Kavanaugh categorically denies the allegation. But we are in New Territory right now. No one at this hour is even argue thing nomination should proceed as it was going to before. The procedural fight is how to deal with the accusations. Democrats pushing for a total delay until theres a fact finding process featuring both ford and kavanaugh. Hes said publicly in a written Statement Today that he is ready. And within the last hour, the white house has dialed that up to ready for tomorrow. He spent several hours today huddling with trumps counsel, don mcgahn at the white house, working the phones and calling members of congress. While President Trump is known for digging in his deals on all kinds of fighting and accusations, look at this. Tonight, we can report for you that even he felt the need to acknowledge at least a delay here might be necessary. Judge kavanaugh is one of the finest people that ive ever known. I think hes on track. I think hes very much on track. If it takes a little delay, it will take a little delay. It shouldnt be very much. Many republicans were hoping to move forward without much of a change. But a key swing vote is saying that lies by kavanaugh on this story would be disqualifying, and they need new testimony. If judge kavanaugh has lied about what happened, that would be disqualifying. Thats why its so important that we have testimony under oath with a lot of questions to ask of both of them. The accusers lawyer says shes willing to speak. Ifs your client willing to testify publicly and tell this story . She is. Shes willing to do whatever it takes to get her story forth, yes. She clearly considers this an attempted rape. She believes if not for the severe intoxication of Brett Kavanaugh, she would have been raped. Meanwhile, one of the most influential republicans on that committee, orrin hatch, who used to chair it, says hes already determined in his view these chaims are not legitimate. Do you think that any of these claims are legitimate . No, i dont. I think this woman, whoever she is, is mixed up. Meanwhile, kavanaugh has put out his written denial, his offer to testify, but he did avoid shouted questions from reporters today. Are the allegations true . Do you have any response to Christine Ford . Will you testify . Joinii begin with a person ws a vote on the matter, senator richard blumenthal, who serves on the Judiciary Committee, and is demanding a delay in the vote and a chance to assess, as they put it dr. Fords serious allegations. Also to begin the discussion, attorney mia wylie and nbc analyst joins me, as well. Senator, the white house now says they could hold this hearing with judge kavanaughs participation tomorrow. Do you support beginning this process tomorrow . Before any hearing, there needs to be an fbi investigation involving sworn interviews with their potential witnesses, and other review of records. There is no way to hold a hearing intelligently and responsibly without that investigation. Think of it this way, ari, as a former prosecutor and attorney general, theres no way that i would put a crime survivor on the witness stand without a full investigation, let alone on the witness stand before the entire american people. I believe survivor dr. Ford. Shes chosen very bravely to step forward to tell her story knowing the nightmare that would come from hostile and potentially searching scrutiny. And there are a lot of reasons to disbelieve judge kavanaugh based on his evasive and misleading testimony before our Judiciary Committee last week. You mentioned the style of the testimony, particularly when there were certain factual detailed questions posed. This was under i would like to play you senator kennedy regarding some of his time as a younger man or a teenager. Take a look. Did you ever get in trouble, were you more of a john boy walton type or a Farris Bueller type . I worked hard in school. I had a lot of friends. I talked a lot about my friends. You left out the troubled part. I was waiting for that. Right. So thats encompassed under the friends, i think. That exchange doesnt age well based on the serious allegations that have arisen today. Walk us through what you think a proper hearing and timeline should look like and could it occur before the midterm elections, which hangs heavy on the minds of this white house. There needs to be a complete investigation here by the fbi, taking as long as is necessary. The republicans have set an arbitrary and irrational deadline. Were dealing with a United StatesSupreme Court nomination. An appointment for life to the highest court in the land that makes a real difference in peoples lives in the real world. So setting an arbitrary deadline ought to be absolutely avoided. I believe strongly that there may well be a need for a hearing. But there needs to be that investigation first. The points where judge kavanaugh was evasive on his role in certain judgeship nominations, his involvement in stolen documents and his denials of it, flying in the face of emails on it. The denials of his beliefs on reproductive rights, saying roe can be overturned in memos that were disclosed. All raise the issues of what more is being hidden here . Today, i went to court with colleagues demanding a court order that would involve revealing millions of pages of documents from the national archives, and the cia. I hope the courts will quickly move, and those undisclosed documents will shed further light on the merits oh of this nomination. As youre speaking to us, more breaking news. I know youre on the committee, but youve been stuck working with us here on television. Im reading breaking news that the committee on the republican side would appear has agreed to schedule a hearing with professor ford and judge kavanaugh on monday. The New York Times say thing Thursdays Committee vote has been postponed, according to a republican briefed on the plan. Your response to that news posted publicly there, and says the story is coming. That relates to a hearing being scheduled monday, sir. At the risk of repeating, i strongly believe that the fbi has to investigate, interview the witnesses, assess the records and documents, if any exist. Go back and do all of the fact finding that is necessary. If we fail to do it before the hearing, were going to be shooting in the dark. Stay with me, senator, i want to bring in mia wylie. I want to look at the corroboration of the Washington Post story, which overlaps the senates point, which how coyou go at adjudicating potential fa facts. I wonder what you think about the way the post reported the story and how this relates to figuring out the facts, mia. Because there is a concern in highly politicized events with a lot hanging on the line that any individual or anonymous individual can theoretically say anything, and yet we are somewhere above that if the probative process, the factual process, because the post has the husband and a therapist and the waving of medical privilege corroborating the long before donald trump was president or judge kavanaugh was headed to the court, there is a corroboration of this individuals at least accusation, she believed it, she said it back then. Walk us through your views of the factis there. First of all, i have to say it was already disturbing given the fact that this would be a Supreme Court justice. Someone who is going to dawn the black robe for a lifetime and take a chair that was going to empower him to make decisions that even the president of the United States may be able to do something or not do something or that congress can do something or not do something. Its an extremely powerful position, and this is an alleged crime of power, not of sex. Its an abuse of power crime. So its critically important to understand, one of the things as an attorney i would say is, so in 2012, she tells her therapist and her husband for the first time, for no other reason than to address some Emotional Trauma that she has had, thats clearly playing out in a marriage. Thats a huge fact in terms of understand i understanding credibility. At the end of the day, it was credibility. Unless some other witness comes forward, its going to be Brett Kavanaughs word against hers. Except in her case, for no other reason, for no personal gain, years before he was considered for the Supreme Court, she tells this story and names him to her husband . That to me says that this has a high degree of credibility. And remember, this is not a court of law. This is not a case in which you have to prove a crime. This is just whether a man is going to be one of the most powerful people in the country. Let me bring in our experts on this. Elise hogue is with us, attorney nancy erica smith, and liz plank, who has reported on many aspects of this. Mya mentioned something i want to put forward, which is a point that can get lost in these stories. What is the best standard to apply in fact finding . The strictest is in criminal trials where you have proof of wronging to beyond a reasonable doubt. Courts use a less strict standard in civil cases. The question is whether to choose someone for a powerful post, not deny them liberty or take away a job they already have, when you think about xa examples like david petraeus. Todays debate is not about removing kavanaugh from his powerful perch on the d. C. Circuit. Its not about charging him with a crime, given the statute of limitations. The standard in play is only whether investigating these allegations should impact a big decision to promote him to a dig job for life. And so nancy, i put that to you first. What is the right standard to think about this promotion . I think its a very low bar. If we have questions about this mans integrity, he shouldnt be given a lifetime appointment to the United StatesSupreme Court. Listen, we already know that he disrespects women. We know that. He doesnt think women can make their own medical decisions and doesnt think she should control our open bodies. We know that he denied a young woman the right her constitutional right to an abortion. And the entire pam nel of the d. Third circuit disagreed with him. He said waiting more than a month is not a problem. So he has a lack of empathy for women and a disrespect for women. If thats not disqualifying enough, now we have dr. Fords credible allegations. She has nothing to gain here and everything to lose that he was a drunken, almost rapist. It seems to me like that really should be enough right there. Let me go to elise, then liz. Yeah, i mean, i agree absolutely with nancy. I think that the republicans are grasping at straws. I think the only thing they have going for them, which was this inevitability argument, and of course hes going to be confirmed, is crumbling under the rage of millions of women who have been saying every step of this process he is not qualified for the courts for all the reasons nancy said. I think the spark of rage that really lit the fire today was orrin hatchs statement oh, this woman might be mixed up, which is something were all too familiar with. Look, our organization, backed by 2 million members, as well as some othering, called for him to withdraw his nomination, even before dr. Ford took what we believe was the unnecessary but courageous step of coming forward. The story is credible. I dont think anyone doesnt believe her. And his nomination should be withdrawn. If for no other reason than the investigation is going to take time. Let him clear it up, and reapply when theres another vacancy. But he should be done. To put it bluntly, i dont think a man accused of Sexual Assault should be nominating another man accused of Sexual Assault for Supreme Court of the United States of america. I think this should be investigated thoroughly. I agree with senator blumenthal. This should be investigated by the fbi. Obviously, weve been talking a lot about anita hill and the things she put on the line and the things that she has done for women in this country. But the things that are being the crimes that are being cited in this case, and the alleged crime thats cited in this case, is an alleged rape. Thats a big deal. And that goes beyond Brett Kavanaughs credibility to be a Supreme Court judge. This should be investigated. You know, this is important for all of us to see justice has been served in this case especially. Nancy, youre here in part because of your representation of women in these admittedly difficult scenarios, even when the facts are on their side. Take a listen to what ms. Fords attorney said today about motive. No one in their right mind, regardless of motive, would want to inject themselves into this process and face the kind of annihilation that she will be subjected to. This is not a politically motivated action. Nancy, does that ring true based on your experience . Yeah, because women who complain about sexual abuse, Sexual Harassment are hatch just said it, she must be crazy if shes accusing this man of being drunk and almost rapist. She must be crazy. Also, whats the rush here . Why do the republicans give so much pow toer to a president whs vun under investigation, whose lawyer, personal lawyer just pled guilty, his nsa head pled guilty. We have 19 other indictments. Why are we giving so much power to somebody with such an ethical cloud and as was pointed out, he brags about sexually assaulting women and he supported a pedophile for senate. Senator . Absolutely right on all those points, especially on the motives here. She actually hesitated for we s weeks, declined to come forward. She knew and foresaw this nightmare of hostile scrutiny. But equally important, the impact on the United StatesSupreme Court, Going Forward with this nomination, will cast a shadow and stain on an institution that depends for its power on credibility and trust. It has no army. It has no police force. Its obeyed because of its credibility and the american peoples belief in its integrity. And this nomination will forever stain the Supreme Court in a way that i think may well beer repairable. Before we go, elise, i want to tell you how we turn some of the principles, which i think have been quite well laid out here on this panel. How do you turn them into political organizing and action and putting up on the screen some of the individuals accused of politically being on both sides of these things, you have open to a vote they, senator flake, corker, and the vote has been delayed now, at least past next week, who want testimony, senator collins and graham. I wonder what you are telling your members to do someone like senator collins, who said she was prochoice, told the voters she was, but was moving forward on appearing to support this nomination after the hearings suggest that he was very open to other things. And now you have everything new over the weekend, what are you doing politically on that . Yeah, i mean, look, our members have been holding vigils, theyve been calling. This is just going on overdrive. We released today so many of those republican senators who claim to stand with women, have said so in the past. Theyve got to make their actions match their words. Ly tell you one thing, often our members in red states are saying, all members in red states are in overdrive. This transcends politics. This is women fighting for our lives and integrity, and also through november. I want to give a special thanks to everyone here. We have a lot more on this story, as well. As trumps legal team is worried about this new Paul Manafort deal flipping and proffering info to mueller. But first, a former fbi agent is here to discuss how the bureau should investigate everything thats breaking around the kavanaugh investigation, and the reporter who broke the anita hill student is here. Im ari melber. Youre watching the beat on msnbc. People who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams theyre handing us more than mail theyre handing us their business and while we make more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget. That your business is our business the United States postal service. 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And this is moving day with Reliable Service appointments in a twohour window so youre up and running in no time. Show me decorating shows. This is staying connected with xfinity to make moving. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and twohour appointment windows. Click, call or visit a store today. Breaking news tonight. Republicans in the senate say there now will be a new hearing on monday for Donald TrumpsSupreme Court pick Brett Kavanaugh, and his accuser, christine blase ford. I spoke to a democratic senator who said the fbi investigation into this allegation should occur before that hearing begins, which is scheduled for next week. All ten dems on the Judiciary Committee said the same thing, asking for the fbi to get involved. Kavanaugh denies this allegation. Heres what the most powerful democrat in the senate said today. So it is now the fbis responsibility to investigate these claims, update the analysis to judge kavanaughs background, and report back to the senate. This has to be done by an independent, outside body. The fbi is the best one. Im joined by the former assistant director for that very fbi. And mya wylie is back with me. Should the fbi be investigate thing claim, frank . Good question. This is unlike anything else the fbi does, a Background Investigation is neither a criminal investigation nor a counterintelligence or National Security investigation. You have a client, when you conduct a Background Investigation, and your client is the agency from which the nomination comes. In this case, the client is the white house. To complicate things even further, this back Ground Investigation was closed. So now, opposed to a pending allegation rising during a pending allegation, the client has to ask you to reopen it. Right. Im going to jump it. At the risk of oversimplifying things, the fbi is sort of working with the employer to call references. So viewers would then wonder why are the people most critical, the democrats, leaning on the fbi to do this . Do you think theres misunderstanding how to adjudicate it . I think its got to be Crystal Clear that the fbi needs to get the request from the white house, not from the senate, not from the house, not from the department of justice, but the client in this case, and not getting that request, ari, is a little bit like the Fire Department in your hometown calling the mayor and saying they see smoke coming from the city council building, and the mayor says thanks for the call, but lets let the city council figure out whether the building is on fire. That cant happen. As has been said, having the best Law EnforcementInvestigative Agency in the United States finish what they started. They started the Background Investigation. Take the handcuffs off. Let them get to the bottom of it in an objective, nonpartisan way. Am i thrilled about the notion of fbi agents investigating a high School Incident 30 something years ago . No, im not. But its moved well beyond that, into a situation where the nominee has categorically denied doing this. So now it goes to the heart of his veracity. And credibility. Overlapped with what we were discussing before the break. I wonder if you have a question for frank since we have his fbi expertise. Yeah, in terms of how an investigation be conducted, and ive had the pleasure of being investigated by the fbi for the Southern District of new york. Would you imagine going and trying to find any additional witnesses in light of the fact that professor ford doesnt remember where the party was, and what about mark judge . So the answer is absolutely. And the best entity equipped to do that is the bureau. They would independently corroboration the witnesses we know about. Right now were getting our information through the media and through documents supplied by the victim. But that all needs to be independently corroborated. So the bureau would go to the therapist, speak to her husband, find the individual alleged to be in the room and they might even find others who come forward. Thats who needs to do that, not partisan people. And they do it with a battering ram thats stronger than the Washington Post, given everyones memory of the Mueller Probe and what happens if you do and it takes longer than a week. A lot going on. My special thanks to both of you on a busy show. Breaking news on what President Trump wants to go with that Mueller Probe. Back in 30 seconds. The trump white houses other headache is that Paul Manafort is actively cooperating with special Counsel Robert Mueller and at this hour, weve been tracking this. President trump hasnt even commented on this news, which is noticeable, considering how much he talked about manafort. I think the whole manafort trial is very sad. None of the reasons i respect Paul Manafort. They go after manafort. I feel very badly for Paul Manafort. He couldnt stop tweeting about him. He did it twice after his guilty verdict in virginia. But now since flipping on friday, the president hasnt tweeted anything about Paul Manafort. His lawyers are talking. Rudy giuliani still talking about a pardon, saying its not disqualified, and theres no reason to preclude it in the future. It would be unusual, if not improper, to enter seed in this open cooperation between manafort and mueller with a pardon. Meanwhile, one top democrat says even leave thing door open which rudy is doing, shows that hes scared. Well, clearly the trump team is terrified about what manafort may have to say. Thats not all. Tonight, we are learning the white house wants donald trump to declassify key documents in the open russia probe, and his intelligence chiefs have been disagreeing with that move. Lets get into all of it, with a former federal prosecutor. Any way that Donald Trumps lawyers with spin this, why are they talking about a pardon, and what is your reaction on the latest of the declassification . The desperation is showing. To pardon Paul Manafort at this point, would be a wild move, even for this president. It would be a flashing red light of obstruction. Look at what rudy said. He said, were not ruling out hes not disqualified from a pardon, and he said, you know, we dont have any problem with manafort, just as long as he tells the truth and says he didnt do anything with trump. Talk about signalling to manafort. Hes saying, keep my guys name out of your mouth and there could be a pardon in the future. I dont think manafort would be reckless enough to lie to mueller. He would have to know he would get caught and destroy his cooperation. And youre saying you think the motivation on the trump legal side is to keep trumps name out of manaforts mouth . Absolutely. Which is sort of a quid pro quo or whats moan as the 36 mafia defense. I want to ask you about this real big news that we got late friday that i think some people have missed with Everything Else going on. Let me read from andrew weissmann, saying whats not in manaforts statement of defense is it doesnt rely on the information obtained from manafort in the course of his proffer sessions, and cooperation that led us to today. You have educated us before on how this works. Why would proffer sessions, plural, be so significant to the case mueller is building . It shows mueller has a good sense of what manafort is going to say and hes interested enough to sign him up as a coop ray for. Clearly its been multiple sessions, and hes interested enough to extend this potential benefit of the cooperation. Right. And thats fascinating, given what Paul Manafort had his hands on, the campaign, the convention, the money. Sure. Ive got to fit in a break. We have a big anita hill special report. Coming up, we turn to what we can learn from the history and why things might be better this time, the allegations of Sexual Misconduct that rocked another Supreme Court nomination. Anita hill and Clarence Thomas. Congresswoman ellenor Holmes Norton joins us live. Thats next. Insurance that wont replace the full value of your new car . Youd be better off throwing your money right into the harbor. Im gonna regret that. With Liberty Mutual new car replacement well replace the full value of your car. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty walking a dog can add thouswalking this many . Our day. That can be rough on pams feet, knees, and lower back. Thats why she wears dr. Scholls orthotics. They relieve pain and give her the comfort to move more so she can keep up with all of her best friends. Dr. Scholls. Born to move. Breaking news in our hour. The Senate Judiciary chairman senator Chuck Grassley has invited both judge kavanaugh and his accuse tore a public hearing. If you look on the screen, it says public herring. It seems in their haste they did not spellcheck or catch that in the headline. Its not clear what democrats think of this. We heard from a senator who said this is too fast. This is also, however, what some of ms. Fords allies said should happen, a public reckoning under oath for the accuser and the accused. Anything that does happen this coming monday or later will have parallels to anita hill. That brings us to a question we want to probe tonight, should one allegation of Sexual Misconduct prevent a promotion to the Supreme Court . That was part of the issue facing Clarence Thomas in 1991. Anita hill facing off against a committee that was made exclusively of male senators. Were about to hear two senators. The female accuser was worried about the risk of stepping forward. Today, we are seeing that played out in all kinds of attacks. Theres also the question whether the alleged conduct cast doubt on whether that person, thomas or kavanaugh, should be held basically to a position where they decide on the life and death of other individuals. Tonight, kavanaughs defenders insist to the contrast. Hill was accusing thomas of conduct when he was a 33yearold attorney. Kavanaugh faces allegations that would have occurred when he was about 17, if true. Hills allegations involved repeat instances, whereas, at this hour, and the story is moving quickly, kavanaughs defenders are saying that he has gone through a vetting and this is a single accusation regarding a single incident. Those are the comparisons of the two cases. Theres also no doubt the environment we have today is changed. This is footage from 1991, when ellenor Holmes Norton and other went led the push so that anita hill could even be heard. We seven congresswomen were so outraged of the senates handling of the charges against Clarence Thomas, they tried to storm the senate. They didnt get in. I think this calls [ inaudible ] we should note those women in congress were storming a senate Judiciary Committee that at the time was made up of all men. Today, there are women on the committee, at least on the democratic side. The republican members of this committee remain today all men. Im know joined by ellenor Holmes Norton and lina totenberg. Congresswoman, what is the right process for accusers to testify, and who will be important if this goes forward monday . Ari, i have no doubt that there would be a hearing. Because the lessons of anita hill and Clarence Thomas are not that far removed, and because it is pretty clear that if the senate has learned nothing, it is the refusal to hear an accusation, particularly a credible accusation. This one even more credible, because there is a Lie Detector Test involved. There is credible evidence that the trauma lasted for years. There was no way that they were going to deny this hearing. My objection, ari, is that if we have this hearing on monday, it will be a snap hearing. With no preparation, and i tell you, as a member of congress, we could not have a hearing on the simplest subjects with as little notice as we now are or the senate is now asking to be given were getting into the procedural baseball. You are saying the rush from the republicans is fishy. As you know, there are people who say, as Thurgood Marshal once said, justice delayed is justice denied. Lets get on with it and get them under oath. Getting on with it is the only question. Everybody agrees now, nobody dare deny her the right to be heard. The real question is, can the senate prepare for a hearing with every member prepared to ask the appropriate questions in a few days. They have a 54 majority in the court now, ari. What is the rush . Right. The thing here is, the lesson, i think, of the Clarence Thomas and anita hill hearings was that they had hearings within three days of canceling a vote because they didnt have the certain votes. And they went into a hearing without facts, without having ascertained the facts and it turned into a focus. I think that was to the detriment of anita hill, to the detriment of Clarence Thomas and to the detriment of the Supreme Court and the senate of the United States. If theres one thing they ought to have learned, it is to let the fbi do the immediate investigation to reopen it at the request of the white house. And have the fbi do the immediate investigation, do what they do, interview witnesses, see if theres corroboration. Then the staff gets a second crack for a short time, and then be prepared for hearings. That should. Take forever. Lets pause on the point youre raising. Youre saying, if i understand you, youre saying amidst this intense concern on all sides, youre saying if theres one clear, fair lesson, it would be that it would be better for both the judge, who stands accused at this moment, and ms. Ford, the abuser, better for both of them in the process to not rush to monday, but to have a fueler fact finding to set up a better hearing . I think thats probably right. I dont know whether you could do this in a week or not. I certainly think you probably could do it in two. There is no reason on gods good earth that this there has to be a vote on this nominee before the first monday in october when the court reconvenes, because he is not going to be able to participate fully in the courts work instantly. That will take a few weeks before he gets his feet on the ground. And even senator grassley admitted that to me in an interview i did with him about a week ago. So there is no reason except that republicans want to get this done while they think they can, and theyre worried about the election. I think its a long shot that the republicans would lose control of the senate, but theyre worried what might else come up if we prolong this, if we let this go on too long. But if we dont, thats a price to be paid. And the price is sometimes also at the election. The price was with the elections with anita hill. Anita hill, when Clarence Thomas was up, he had positives. By the way, kavanaugh has maybe 4 of people saying he should be concerned. But Clarence Thomas, who was, after all to replace another africanamerican, had even africanamericans for him. So he went ahead with that head start. There was an immediate turn around, and an immediate regret, and we saw it in the year of the woman, and the year of the woman produced four women that have come to the house or the senate. We already have a woman coming in upon us. You put this out there and i think youll gallop it into the next election. To your point, looking at whats coming down the pike, i want to play from 1991 multiple senators who were, of course, i mentioned and i think its relevant, who were all male, in the waiting, used their position to impugn and attack ms. Hill, who has spoken out today and said she hopes we dont have a replay of that in our history. Take a look at these senators from 1991. She will be destroyed and harassed and belittled. The good name of a good man has been tarnished. I do not believe judge thomas is capable of the kind of behavior professor hill described to this committee. And i do not believe that professor hill is telling the truth. It just doesnt make sense that she simply told her friends or acquaintances that she was being harassed at work, and thats it. Thats it. Thats a younger senator grassley who now chairs the committee. Will it be different this time if they go forward monday, do you think . I think it will be different in one sense. They accused anita hill of erotimania, and all kinds of other things. There are 23 women in the senate today, not two as there were in 1991. And i think that you see even somebody managed to sit on the president , so he didnt even tweet about this today. So i think republicans understand that they cant just dis an allegation like this, that they have to look into it. But if its a fake looking into it, people will see through that. And this is a more serious allegation, the allegation here is not Sexual Harassment, but Sexual Assault. And this which her lawyer has emphasized and well keep reporting on. Im supposed to fit in a break. I want to give a very special thanks to both of you that were trailblazers on this. Were not there yet, ari. Im putting an onerair invi for the hearing on monday. Thank you again. One more thing after the break, what happened inside the white house while Brett Kavanaugh was holed up and talking to Donald Trumps lawyers . The playbook of denial back in play. But will it work . Thats next. Your brain changes as you get older. But prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered. In jellyfish. In clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. Copd makes it hard to breathe. So to breathe better, i go with anoro. Go your own way copd tries to say, go this way. I say, ill go my own way, with anoro. Go your own way oncedaily anoro contains two medicines called bronchodilators that Work Together to significantly improve lung function all day and all night. Anoro is not for asthma. It contains a type of medicine that increases risk of death in people with asthma. The risk is unknown in copd. Anoro wont replace rescue inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than once a day. 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News that broke in our hour tonight, judge kavanagh and his accuser of Sexual Assault miss ford both invite today a hearing in public under oath monday. Kavanagh also met with White House Counsel Don Mcgahn today. Theyre being quite tight lipped. We know from Bob Woodwards reporting fear, a friend who faced these similar allegations, quote, you have to deny, deny, deny, and push back on these women. If you admit to anything, any culpability, youre dead. That was the big mistake you made, he allegedly told this person. Never admit. Liz, how does that apply today . Well, look, donald trump is a very, you know, inconsistent person. We dont really know how hes going to act in different situations. But one area that we can really always count on him to be consistent in is silencing women. Whether its the 17 women who reported different kinds of Sexual Misconduct, you know, relating to donald trump or Stormy Daniels or Karen Mcdougal or morris accusers, this is something he does a lot. But heres the thing about that strategy, is that it relies on a culture that doesnt believe women, right . That doesnt believe women when they speak. Im actually old enough, ari, to remember a time when we didnt believe women, like a full five or six months ago. So now the culture has changed a lot. Its a post me too era and that trick is a little bit harder to pull. And when we mention that kavanagh is hold up there, you put your finger on it with who hes hold up getting advice from. The headlines tell the tale. Trump wanted to even bring back rob porter who faced spousal abuse allegations. Speech writer resigned over similar allegations. The fox news cover up. How does that fit into what you think judge kavanagh heard today in that white house . Right. I mean, if we look at who donald trump uses as advisors, it tells us everything about the strategy that hes going to implement Going Forward. Actually tried today to think about a man that donald trump has a man who has been accused of Sexual Misconduct, that donald trump has not defended and i couldnt think of one. Whether its bill oreilly, roger ailes himself, or many other men in his own white house like rob porter you just mention the. This is the thing he does, hes good at it. But will it work. Thats the question. I think youre putting an important point on the frame, will it work in a fact finding process in that senate room with, as were told, its going to be monday with the whole country watching. That is a little different than a free wheeling campaign event. Liz plank, thank you for being at the top of our show and closing us out. We have one more think thank you. Which relates to how bewere covering kavanagh in the days ahead when we come back. To look at me now, you dont see psoriasis. You see clear skin. Cosentyx can help people with moderate to Severe Plaque Psoriasis find clear skin that can last. 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