Inauguration committee knew about it. With me nbc Investigative Reporter kennedy lanian, evelyn farkas, Deputy Defense secretary kim lee, associate counsel during Whitewater Association and former u. S. Attorney guy lewis. Great to have you with us this friday. Ken, let me start with you. Tell us about this guilty plea and what unfolded. Ayman, this case appears to have come out of the investigation of Paul Manafort, Donald Trumps former campaign chairman, running this massive lobbying on behalf of russian backed ukrainian oligarch. Sam patten comes in after the oligarch,ian kovic had fled in exile to russia and manafort trying to reconstitute political party, known as party of regions, formed something called opposition block. According to the documents, patten was lobbying for the opposition bloc. Inside the United States he was being paid by this foreign political party, thats illegal because he never registered with the Justice Department. He gave a media interview saying he was not lobbying in the United States. The more interesting part of this plea agreement, he was not charged with this conduct but admitted to funneling a straw dee nation of 50,000 from a foreign source, his ukrainian client, to the Donald Trump Inauguration committee. What we dont know, ayman, was this a case of the client wanting to get tickets to the inaugural and attend parties or was this a way to potentially curry favor with donald trump. And buy influence and who knew about that . Those are the interesting questions raised by that straw donation issue, ayman. Ken, do we know who made the straw payment on behalf of these two men . As you were saying, the money was funneled through some straw donor. Do we know if that donor was a a willing accomplice to this or not . That person not named in the Court Documents and we havent confirmed identity. We do know one of his ukrainian clients was chief of staff to victor yiannopoulos yanikovich. Interesting. We want to definitely into it more we want to get a reaction on your take. What is your take on what you saw today. Whats interesting, were seeing Mueller Investigation and other parts of the Justice Department moving in on what they refer to as russian collusion. The manafort trial is about financial crimes. We hear a lot about obstruction of justice from the white house. Here we have a close associate of manafort. Who is essentially secretly lobbingy congress, lobbying the executive branch, as you mentioned funneling payments to the president s inaugural committee on behalf of foreign governments who arent interested in the well being of the american voter. This is complicated. Viewers and American People want to know why does this matter . Why should we care about this . We should care about this because we want free and fair elections. We want to know who is contributing to political parties. What this tells us, the mueller team is on this. The other question is how much does this person know to exert additional pressure on manafort to potential ly potentially put pressure on manafort for other investigations hes aware of. You mentioned collusion, do you think theres a correlation between what we saw today with Samuel Patten and the delay of the Paul Manafort trial . Thats a good question. Its a difficult question to answer. I was a young lawyer in the whitewater investigation. One thing that struck me is how little the public knows about whats actually happening inside the investigation. We have so much information about what the russians did at this point. We have multiple indictments from the mueller team as well. We know they hacked the election. The russians were behind that. It went to wikileaks. The information came out within a half an hour of the access hollywood tape. Well just have to sit back and see how these pieces are put together. Its pretty evident the Justice Department is looking at this as a widespread almost criminal enterprise with lots of players. Well just have to see, as i mentioned, how it unfolds publicly. Evelyn your take on this as well when you now look at two additional i dont want to call them russians, one ukrainian, one russian but prorussian in political outlooks or interest, once again appearing at the president ial inauguration. What is your take on what we saw today . Ayman, its really interesting. In addition to what i forgot her name right now, the journalist the lawyer just mentioned. Ken or kim . Ken was the reporter who what kim said. About whats important to note about these actors working in ukraine, specifically with regard to him, basically been fingered as a russian operative. If this paper has been working closely, this sam patten fellow has been working that closely with kill knick and manafort, was patten aware kilimnick had ties back to the kremlin and was manafort aware . Again, it gets back to the question of manafort. Was he a witting agent of the russian government or unwitting. I think it does matter. Although, of course in his actions maybe it doesnt make a difference in the eye of the law. I do think its important for us to understand eventually. We dont know whether Robert Mueller will tell the American People. But i do think this points to the question of the kremlin culpability. And then theres the other piece of it, which bloomberg mentioned in their article about cambridge analytica. Yeah. That this guy, sam, was also involved at one point with cambridge analytic. Do those relationships endure throughout the campaign . I think his involvement was earlier. Yeah. Its very interesting to see the threads overlapping here with all these various aspects. Guy, i want your reaction. Rudy giuliani talked about this plea deal today. Take a listen to this. Nothing to do with the president , nothing to do with collusion, everything to do with a lobbyist who acted improperly who the president doesnt know. So far every indictment is unrelated to the president. We went through an entire manafort trial, and there wasnt a single mention of the president. This is related directly to the inauguration. Not is the president. Giuliani here saying this has nothing to do with the president. When youre listening to the point that ken made earlier, which is that we dont know why these men pay 50,000 to attend the inauguration. Were they just paying to party it up with d. C. Politicians or were they coming to try to get access to Incoming Administration so they could ultimately shape policy and have some kind of influence. How is it possible Rudy Giuliani makes that kind of statement when we dont know the answer to why these two men paid 50,000. Ayman, first of all, the mayor is a pretty good lawyer. Hes going to put a spin on it that is completely totally pro trump. Thats what he should be doing, frankly. But whats fascinating about this and kim is 100 right what this tells me is three quick things. One, we are not in the wind down phase of this investigation. Yeah. They are still indicting people and charging people and its going to continue. Bet the house, its going to continue. Number two, follow the money. Follow the money. They didnt pay 50,000 to 100,000 to rub shoulders with a bunch of politicians. Its not the way washington works. You pay the money, you have an expectation of something in return. And three, for people that really want to pound mueller and say, well, hes not doing what hes supposed to be doing, chalk up another win yet another win for bob mueller and his team. Slow and methodical. Man, hes still moving forward. Ken, one of the interesting themes weve kind of seen emerge out of all this is that these two, the russian and ukrainian man, they are not the only russians to have appeared at President Trumps inauguration. What more do we know about russians at the president s inauguration . Thats right, ayman. There have been reports of other russians and russian americans who at least attended inauguration. No other report of an illegal foreign donation. One was billionaire Viktor Vekselberg and his cousin. If you remember those names, it may be you heard reports these people were paying Michael Cohen 1 million in a consulting arrangement to help their business. When these reports emerged at the time, people were trying to figure out, why are these people attending Donald Trumps inauguration . Whats the connection here . It raises a number of questions. None of them have been answered as yet. That adds more speculation as to why these two men were there and paid 50,000 to get access to the inauguration. Kim, lets talk about the deal itself. How could somebody like Samuel Patten help prosecutors in the broader investigation into the collusion, obstruction of justice or any other wrongdoings . I think whats interesting is both patten and manafort lobbied on behalf of the same ukrainian political party. Presumably, this person knows some information about manaforts relationship with the ukrainians and putins support potentially for ukrainian interest which made its way at least into the potential Republican Party platform during the president ial election. As i mentioned before, its like reading every 40th page of moby dick and trying to figure out what the story is about. We have to read every page. Right now, not only bob mueller but because hes farming out some of these prosecutions, the other parts of the Justice Department, other parts of the Justice Department have pieces of it. Its a widespread, complicated puzzle. I understand that even lawyers former prosecutors like myself and people on the panel and others have a hard time paying attention to it. Its something i think is very difficult for the American People understand. I think what they need to think about, do you want when you cast your vote that to matter based on your own political views and who you want to be representing you in your government and not Vladimir Putin and his cronies. Thats the issue right now. Guys, i want all of you guys to stay with me just for another minute. We have another breaking story were following tonight. The author of the trump russia dossier reportedly told a department of justice lawyer that russians had trump over a barrel. The Associated Press learning today bruce ohr said Christopher Steele told him in july 2016 that russian intelligence believed they had trump, quote, over a barrel during the 2016 campaign. With me by phone is the reporter who broke that story chad day of the Associated Press. Chad, great to have you with us this evening. Lets talk a little about your reporting. Steele saying russians believed they had trump over a barrel. What does that suggest . How do you understand that statement to mean . Right. So we understand that statement to mean they had compromising information on donald trump. You know, these comments appear to mirror a lot of the details that were included in you know the steele dossier. Whats important that we should point out, this is the first time were hearing details, his own account of contacts with steele. What were finding out, this is something steele was trying to warn people about. And that he went to bruce ohr at this point because he was concerned that russian intelligence had compromising information at that point on a leading candidate for president. Why bruce ohr. Republicans to some extent are looking at bruce ahr and the president attacked bruce ohr as being part of the deep state, if you want to use that expression according to him. Why do you think there was that communication between steele and bruce ohr . Steele and ohr had known each other 10 years at this point. It should be noted ohr has experience in investigating russian organized crime. Its something he did at the Justice Department and as a prosecutor. They kind of bonded over this connection where steele is an ex mi 6 agent, had type ties in had deep ties in to russia and interested in tracking russian crime. He previously provided information to the Justice Department they found credible and used in bringing other cases and also passing along to other intelligence agencies. So at the time this meeting took place, this meeting between bruce ohr and Christopher Steele where he relayed that information, what was happening with the russia probe at the time . Do we have a sense of where the general intelligence communitys assessment was with russias involvement in american elections was or trying to shape it . We do. This was right at the beginning of the fbis counterintelligence investigation into Russian Election interference and any possible ties with the Trump Campaign. That investigation that we know, according to both republican and democratically authored memos was actually triggered by information about george papadopoulos, another Trump CampaignForeign Policy adviser who had had contacts with russians and in particular who talked to him about saying the russian government had dirt on Hillary Clinton in the form of emails. So what we know about this point in time is that its a very early on part of the investigation where they were trying to there was a lot of anxiety about trying to figure out, what are these bits of information that were collecting about any type of Russian Election interference. Pretty Significant Development on that front. Chad day from Associated Press. Thank you, chad, for joining us. Back to the panel. Evelyn, let me get your reaction to the story. This assessment by Christopher Steele reporting it back to bruce ohr. What do you make of the information the russians or russian intelligence agencies had trump or at the time trump over a barrel. I think, ayman, based on what we saw in the dossier, the russians likely did have information relating to trump and his finances and possibly this performance, this evening he spent in the moscow hotel with prostitutes. We dont know that part. To your knowledge, publicly it hasnt been acknowledged by the fbi. Confirmed by the fbi. We know many other parts have been confirmed publicly through press work, journalistic work and also some of the work that the Justice Department has done. So i would say that im not surprised that he came and said that the russians believe they have trump over a barrel. The russians probably believe that anyway because you just have to listen to donald trump speak. But i think they probably really did have some information, some of which is now public. The other part of this i think thats important to mention is this didnt start with papadopoulos or the dossier, i believe. I mean, i dont know this for a fact. But dont forget the fbi is not the only component of our intelligence community. The component looking closely at the russians the whole time is, of course, cia and other agencies focused outwardly. They must have been already aware. Before this counterintelligence investigation got kicked off in the fbi, i can only imagine that there was Something Else happening internal to the intelligence community. This, of course, gets to the whole issue of president obama and the white house going to the congress and saying, hey, you know, were seeing this evidence. We need your help here. The russians have infiltrated into the tried to infiltrate into some of the voting roles, et cetera, the mechanics of our vooet voting system, in addition to the other things that they did. Its important to bear in mind the dossier is one piece of it. If youre bruce ohr and you think its credible Christopher Steele, you do your job. You take that meeting. I dont think anyone would fault him taking that manage as an official. Thank you guys so much. Guy lewis, im going to ask you to stick around a bit longer. Is it back firing, most americans support bob muellers probe as trump calls it illegal and a witchhunt. We will show you what Rudy Giuliani is saying today. Also in a new interview, President Trump refuses to say when he learned of Michael Cohens payment to Stormy Daniels. Stormy daniels. Youll have to ask michael. Michael is my attorney. We have someone who wants an answer to that question. Hes here alive. Red alert, trumps disapproval. A record high after manafort and cohen news of last week. How worried is trump about the midterms . Hes doing a major rally for this guy. You mess with my wife, you mess with my kids, that will do it every time. Donald, youre a sniveling coward and leave heidi the hell alone. You are watching the beat on msnbc. C. There are roadside attractions. And then theres our worldfamous onroad attraction. The 2019 glc, starting at 40,700. Mercedesbenz. The best or nothing. Lojust use priceline. Ls on travel . You can save up to 60 on hotels. Thats like 120 a night back in your pocket. Go to priceline to get deals you wont find anywhere else. They work togetherf doing important stuff. The hitch . Like you, your cells get hungry. Feed them. With centrum micronutrients. Restoring your awesome, daily. Centrum. Feed your cells. A majority of americans back the Mueller Probe. 63 say the campaign tie to russia comes as trump is attacking mueller for, quote, an illegal investigation and going after the department of justice. Our Justice Department and our fbi have to start doing their job and doing it right and doing it now. Because people are angry. People are angry. Whats happening is a disgrace. And at some point i wanted to stay out. At some point if it doesnt straighten out properly, i want them to do their job. Ill get involved and ill get in there if i have to. Disgraceful. So all of this as trumps lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, said hes putting together a counterreport challenging muellers legitimacy. Lets bring in our panel bill crystals, the week e standards editoratlarge, White House Correspondent and former u. S. Attorney guy lewis is back with us for another segment. Bill, let me start with you, if i may. 63 backing the Mueller Probe. This is a probe the president has called a witch hunt, illegal. Hes gone after individuals within that investigation. Is this all back firing against the president . I dont know if its back firing but i think the assault on the Mueller Probe, on the Justice Department, on sessions, rosenstein, the fbi, had some success and moved some republicans. It certainly moved republican members of congress to go along. And moved Republican Voters to be somewhat more skeptical of the Mueller Investigation than they were at the beginning. That peaked. That assault has run out of steam. If anything now the trend is a little bit the other way. Only 61 of republicans dont like the Mueller Investigation. You can say 61 is a big number, bigger than i would like it to be, but not 80 or 90 . It limits trumps ability to do what he would like to do, fire sessions, get rid of rosenstein. Shut down the investigation. The big story of the summer the last fur or five months has been repeated assaults by trump and surrogates on the Justice Department on mueller, on the investigation, attempts to delegitimize it. Basically they have had some success but fundamentally have failed. Guy, with the developments today that the Mueller Probe had one more guilty plea. Sorry, excuse me, one more deal. Should anyone who is watching this feel that bob mueller and the investigation are, in fact, countering the negative charges coming from the president . Ayman, i think bill is 100 on point on this. Lets take a quick runthrough. Papadopoulos convicted, manafort convicted after trial. General flynn convicted. Cohen convicted. Sam patten today convicted. Twelve russian spies charged, 13 russian nationals charged. Rick gates convicted. A couple of other small fries for lying to the fbi. And again, i think bill is right. At the peak of that attack on the Justice Department, had mueller started tripping and falling, and frankly had they lost the manafort case, wed be in a different position. But so far they are batting 1,000 and thats pretty good. So to that effect, francesca, what are you hearing in terms of the white houses sentiments with the president s approach, trumps approach. Is this attack weve heard this from Rudy Giuliani, hes wanted to make this a public argument against the credibility of the Mueller Investigation. You cant look at it and think it is working when you have 63 of americans on this pole support the Mueller Probe. The white house has been letting him do the talking. We didnt have a White House Briefing although the president has addressed reporters and taken questions in different settings. The white house distancing themselves from the Mueller Probe and from these cases involving manafort and cohen. Today is a very important date, because if you recall, september 1st is when originally Rudy Giuliani predicted that muellers probe would be over. And at this point that still could be the case. It may be almost over. As the other guests were pointing out, it surely doesnt show any signs of stopping, surely not before december 1st. Time is running out on that. Im hearing from people familiar with the case that he could be starting to wrap it up. Maybe thats why he hasnt responded to the letter that the president s legal team sent a few weeks ago in which they offered essentially to have the president sit down but under a very limited set of circumstances. Or it could be possible given the new information thats come out of these other cases that muellers team could be chasing down new leads and thats why they are waiting in order to wrap up this investigation. You actually property up you actually brought up giuliani. Let me play you guys his sound bite. He spoke to nbc about the Mueller Probe. Take a listen. The Justice Department has a rule that you should stay out of politically charged investigations within 60 days of the election. I hope he respects that. Or what . Or nothing. I mean, otherwise it just effects how people look at the legitimacy of his investigation. Is it political or a real Law Enforcement investigation . Guy, what is your reaction to that . You and i were talking about this earlier. Where do you think the Mueller Probe is if you had to put it on 100yard field. Where are we now . 50 yard line. Weve got another half, two quarters to play in the game. Were halfway through. I think the next 60 listen, i do think bob mueller, hes a stickler. He really is. Worked with him a long time. Hes a by the book guy, cross the ts, dot the is. Hes not going to indict anything in the next 60 days. Hes going to continue to do what hes doing, which is get his ducks in a row. They are going to continue to subpoena documents. They are going to continue to brief and debrief witnesses and prepare for the next series of assaults post election. You dont think there will be an indictment between now and elections after labor day . It could happen over the weekend, i doubt it, but between labor day and the election. I dont think so. If im a betting man, i bet against it. Bob is careful and cautious and conservative and i think thats the track hell follow. Bill, i know that giuliani, hes told the daily beast he wants to challenge muellers legitimacy and that its essentially coming from google. Is that really the best plan giuliani really trying to question the legitimacy of bob mueller . Probably is their best plan. What are they trying to do, hopefully have a decent election this november. They might lose the house but hold the senate. They presume there will be a Mueller Report that can be quite damning. They need to hold enough republicans to not vote to either impeach or convict. I think it probably gets to that. I think the way they do that is by discrediting mueller, fbi, Justice Department, the whole apparatus thats been going after donald trump. The way giuliani and trump puts it. Look, they have made progress. We shouldnt be complacent. And things could happen. He says hes going to fire sessions after the election. What happens then . I remain worried trump when cornered is not going to sit and passively have been bob mueller going ahead methodically developing a case against him for either collusion or obstruction. Im very worried trump lashes out and thinks maybe hes got enough support from republicans a lot depends on the election results, i think to act to try to remove this thing hes been trying to remove for a long time. The big story so far, last three or four or five months. Is big assault, some success, but repulsed so far. The system stands. The institutions stand. I remain wary and worried that trump is not going to give up. Francesca, quickly, do you think the white house sees this as a political fight and not a legal fight . It will certainly turn into a political fight if the president does fire the attorney general after the elections. He has said hell stay until then, the president said that session also stay until then. Its pretty clear from the comments of Lindsey Graham and chuck grassley, the president is paving the way to get rid of sessions after the elections are over. Well see what happens after midterms are over. Thank you very much. Bill, im going to ask you to stick around longer, please. Ill talk to a democratic lawmaker on the hill, talk about the breaking news, including a a guilty plea from the hill. Back in 30 seconds. I didnt believe it. Again. Ooh, baby, do you know what thats worth . I want to believe it. [ claps hands ] ooh im not hearing the confidence. Okay, hold the name your price tool. Power of options based on your budget and well make heaven a place on earth yeah oh, my angels ooh, heaven is a place on earth [ sobs quietly ] we are back with the breaking news. A new guilty plea from an associate of Paul Manafort, sam patten admitting to arranging an illegal foreign donation to Donald Trumps inauguration. His case referred to u. S. Attorney in washington, d. C. , by bob mueller. Hes now cooperating with the feds. The other big news, the Associated Press reporting on 2016 conversation between a top justice official and the man behind that Infamous Trump russia dossier Christopher Steele. Steele saying that russian intelligence believed they had trump over a barrel during the 2016 campaign. Joining me now california congressman ted liu, who serves on the house Judiciary Committee. Congressman, great to have you with us this afternoon. Let me first, sir, get your reaction to these two stories. Well start with the guilty plea today and developments in that courtroom. What do you make of what we heard today . Thank you, ayman, for your question. Thats a Significant Development because we have yet another person that is within Donald Trumps orbit pleading guilty. In this case what happened is he funneled at least 50,000 of foreign money into the trump inaugural committee. Thats a pretty big deal. The other big deal is hes agreed to cooperate with prosecutors. Were going to see what hes going to say about who else would have known about the payments. Whats your assessment as to why i know this will probably come out at some point. You know washington very well. Is it common practice for foreigners and foreign nationals to attend inaugural committees or parties . And for the fact that they paid 50,000 to have these tickets, were they there, you think, to party it up or there for access . Foreign countries dont just pay 50,000 for no good reason. Its illegal for the trump inaugural committee, the Trump Campaign to accept foreign money. This is not a normal practice. This is actually a criminal violation. Thats why we have a guilty plea today. We should emphasize theres no evidence the inaugural committee knew about it. They used a straw man to make those payments. Let me get your reaction, sir, on the second breaking news story about what Christopher Steele was saying about the russians intelligence believing they had donald trump over a barrel. How significant do you think that is . Thats a highly alarming statement. Thats why im calling on the house Judiciary Committee, which is controlled by republicans, to release the transcript of the interview and to have an open hearing where we subpoena bruce ohr to come in and testify publicly so the American People can hear what he has to say. If the republicanroled jish rather Judiciary Committee does not do that, they are trying to hide information from the American People. To what extent have you heard any response from House Republicans about releasing this testimony of bruce ohr and others . We have not heard very much. You dont hear them comment very much about this. This is not good testimony for them. It doesnt fit their narrative. By the way, this whole crazy Conspiracy Theory that the president keeps tweeting about with bruce ohr has no basis in fact. This is essentially what bruce ohr did. He passed along information about the steele dossier to fbi officials. Thats what hes supposed to do. Hes a Law Enforcement agent. He did nothing wrong and i dont understand why the president keeps tweeting about him. Why, sir, do you think House Republicans are dragging their feet on this . Do you think they are complicit on this in any way . They have been complicit for a year and a half. House republicans are now facing a major crisis with the mid terms coming up. Their Approval Ratings are at one of the lowest times ever. Its because they have not stood up to the corruption thats in the trump administration. Really what they have been doing is Holding Hearings on Hillary Clintons emails. Thats where they are. They are completely out of touch with what most of the American Public wants to have done. Were going to have more about this story. I want to switch gears quickly and ask you about Michael Cohen. The president was asked about payments to Stormy Daniels in a new interview. He said, i dont want to get into this because its been covered so much. Theres no Campaign Violation whatsoever. The timing of when the president learns about these payments is of great significance, sir. What is your reaction to what the president said today. In march of this year. Excuse me, i should say that was yesterday. So in march of this year, congresswoman rice and i wrote a letter to the fbi to investigate large payments to Stormy Daniels and Katherine Mcdougal to silence them. We viewed them as Campaign Violations. They were criminal. Mike cohen pled guilty to two felonies. The president is on tape with Michael Cohen talking about these payments in advance. So for the president to try and change the story shows again hes misleading the American People. Congressman ted liu, sir, thank you for your time this evening. Appreciate it. Thank you. Ahead former nixon counsel john dean, a witness against Donald Trump Supreme CourtBrett Kavanaugh next week talking about abuse of power. We have a special guest on that. First Donald Trumps disApproval Rating hits a record high and alarm bells are going off inside the gop. Whoooo. Tripadvisor makes finding your perfect hotel. Relaxing. Just enter your destination and dates. Tripadvisor searches over 200 booking sites to find the hotel you want for the lowest price. Dates. Deals. Done tripadvisor. 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That relates to the other bad polling news for President Trump. 49 saying congress should begin impeachment proceedings that could lead to trump being removed from office. In the face of all of this, the Trump Campaign seems to be to motivate the base. Todays Democrat Party is held hostage by left wing haters, angry mobs, deep state radicals, establishment cronies and their fake news allies. We as a country cannot tolerate political censorship, blacklisting and rigged search results. Our fbi has to start doing their job. Whats happening is a disgrace. The elite. They are the elite. Im president and they are not. All right. Joining me now, former vermont governor and dnc chair howard dean. Back again bill crystal. Great to have you both with us. Howard, let me begin with you, if i may. I know you have seen a lot of campaigns in your lifetime. Your thoughts in the midterms with trumps approval so high. What are you reading in terms of the tea leaves . I think the key is the senate. The only people who can get rid donald trump are the republicans. Even if they are minority of house and senate we have to have 2 3 votes. And we are not going to get 2 3 of the senate no matter what happens in the mid terms in the fall. The republicans have to panic. As the democrats did during watergate, the leadership has to realize trump is going to wreck the whole party, which he is in the middle of doing. They have to cut the legs out from under him. Thats probably not going to happen unless they lose the house and senate. I think theres a reasonable possibility they will lose the house and the senate. Do you think, howard, its a smart move on democrats part to run on impeachment . No. Im with lets be judicious about this and follow the facts. Mueller has the facts. Those facts are going to come out one way or another, whether he gets fired or not. Then well have i dont believe impeachment should be political. It is always political, but i dont believe it should be. Its a process and i think we should respect the evidence. I think there is evidence, and somebody knows what it is. And i think trump is unfit to serve. But i think that has to be proved if he is going to be removed from office. What should be the message from democrats to get the vote out . Oh donald trump will supply the message to get the vote out. I think democrats ought to stay positive. Nobody needs to criticize donald trump. Donald trump has done a great job every day reminding everybody in the country that hes completely unfit to serve. What we need to do is have a strong platform. I like very much where we are. Were having individuals write their own platforms for their districts. Were going to elect individuals who are going to represent their districts whether moderate districts or whether they are liberal districts. Thats the way we can get the party back in power. Bill, how are republicans reacting to the latest polling . Should they be at all concerned by what they are seeing and what may come in november . They are obviously concerned but they are not panicking yet. I might wish they would and sever themselves from trump but thats not happening yet. I think here is what the Trump White House is thinking. We get kavanaugh hearings, and most likely a kavanaugh confirmation in september. The country is evenly split on that. Certainly for republicans this is one of the reasons they stuck with trump including people that debate like trump. A fight on the shutdown september 30th to reauthorize the federal fiscal year ends, maybe a little fight on the border wall. Some issues that help him a little bit. Demagogues on the nfl and all those things he likes to do. And this is the absolute key for trump, he holds the senate. They really are desperate to hold the senate. Then the democrats win the house most likely. If republicans hold the senate, conceivably pick up a seat or two, lose governorships, its a mixed message. You cant say, gee, this is a resounding defeat for trump. After you will after all, in 2006 bush lost both. Obama lost senate and then house. Red state seats red states for Democratic Senators who could be vulnerable if it becomes a referendum on trump. States trump won big in 2016. I dont know if it will work. I think the voters might decide they want more of a check on trump. They will in the house. Maybe they will in the senate. Trump, if he survives the election, does pretty well in the senate, i think he then moves against sessions, maybe against rosenstein and mueller, pardons, then were in a whole different world of real craziness in november, december, january. I think its likely to be a bad election for republicans but i think theres a lot of work to be done still. I think some of these senate races are key. If they were to win in texas, that would be dramatic and that would help democrats a lot. Governor dean, do you think this white house is wholly unprepared to confront possible democratic takeover of the house and subpoena power the house will have in the investigations that would be launched if, in fact, the democrats do take control of the house . I think they are pretty much wholly unprepared to do anything. Trump is a guy who just thinks in the moment. He has no plan. I actually thought the other day when he was making all those really crazy tweets he might be getting psychotic. So i dont think theres any longterm planning. I think the staff tries to engage in longterm planning but youve got these neonazi types like Steven Miller running around. He has an agenda. That is not the agenda of america, but it sucks trump in every time. Theres an incredibly short Sighted Group of people. The ones that have a longterm vision cant get anything done because trump is unmanageable. Think about this, look, i think one of the strongest arguments for democrats winning the white house is they could investigate overseas, have veto power. On the other hand is the white house going to obey democratic subpoenas. Lets not assume they will play by the rules the obama and Bush White House plays by. We could end up with a constitutional crisis in the new year. I agree. Governor howard dean and bill crystal, thank you very much. A new line of attack just days before Brett KavanaughSupreme Court confirmation hearing. How they are planning to put the Mueller Probe front and center. . You may have gum disease and could be on a journey to much worse. Try parodontax toothpaste. Its three times more effective at removing plaque, the main cause of bleeding gums. Leave bleeding gums behind with parodontax toothpaste. Leave bleeding gums behind the full value oft wyour new car . Youd be better off throwing your money right into the harbor. Im gonna regret that. 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Do not in fact know if such a tape exists but if it does exist and has not been tampered with and is a complete conversation of the conversation that took place this the president s office i think this committee should have that tame tape because i believe it would corroborate many of the things that this committee has asked me to testify about. Joining me now is michael conway, who si cysted in drafting the final report for the watergate articles of impeachment. Great to have you with us this evening sir. Let me first get your thoughts, your take on john dean being called a witness, the significance of that and the message behind him. Its very important, because john dean is an expert on the issues of privilege and the issues of whether the president has to turn over materials or even testify to a grand jury. United states versus nixon decided that. Hes well aware of it. You just heard him in that clip calling pour the tapes to be released. And they were, and that was the smoking gun. Judge kavanaugh actually has two views that are both dangerous and legally wrong. Thats one them. He believe has the president cant be subpoenaed, can be required to testify. U. S. Versus nixon held 80, unanimously that the president did have to do that. His other one is really dangerous for both the Mueller Probe and for possibly torpedoing any impeachment effort. He doesnt believe the president can be investigated while in office. The Mueller Probe is of course investigating him each if mueller decides per Justice Department guidelines not to indict the president or as in the case of nixon to name him as unindicted coconspirator. The house Judiciary Committee even if controlled by the democrats cant start an investigation from scratch. They need muellers report. They need muellers evidence. If the president cant be even investigated then there wont be any information to supply to the house. Thats what happened in the nixon investigation, the grand jury turned over a satchel of evidence and tape that led to the three articles of impeach men against president nixon. You mentioned how kavanaugh said the decision to release the tapes may have been quotely wronged decided in that decision, 80, Supreme Court saying that president nixon had to turn over those tapes. Do you think john dean will speak to that very specific issue of Brett Kavanaugh saying the decision may have been wrongly decided . Well, i hope he does. Because without the tapes, there is a real question whether president nixon would have ever been impeached and resigned from office. The tapes were the evidence. And here its critical that the president comply with the subpoena. Interestingly, you know, the u. S. Versus nixon was decided 80. A few years before that, the Supreme Court decided a case, same journalist had to testify. The vote was 54. 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