Hints about Jeff Sessions future in the trump administration. Trump saying his job is safe, at least until the midterm elections. That news amid new reporting that President Trump and his allies, or i should say his allies are worrying about the white house. The white house is about to get caught flat footed amid a crush of potential investigations. And as trump struggles to get his story straight on the very latest white house official to be stepping down. That counsel, don mcgahn, first trump tweeting his soninlaw and daughter had nothing to do with this socalled pushing out of don mcgahn, seeming to imply that mcgahn wasnt really pushed out. But then this, an hour and a half later saying the russia witch hunt didnt come into play with his decision on don mcgahn, which seems to mean that he was fired. Now, the white house later telling nbc trumps decision referred to him accepting mcgahns departure, but mcgahn is leaving as trumps advisers tell the washington post, the white house isnt equipped to handle the onslaught of investigations that may be coming. Its still if democrats win the house, without either the staff or the strategy to handle those investigations. With me now, robert costa, National Political reporter for the washington post, richard painter, former federal prosecutor john flannery, and Harvard UniversityProfessor Leah wright rigger. Robert, let me begin with you, the president calling the Mueller Probe illegal, what are you hearing about that, is this an escalation from the president . It is an escalation of his rhetoric. You see in his comments in the bloomberg interview that attorney general Jeff Sessions looks like hes safe at least for now with his position until the midterm elections. And while the president continues to rail against the Mueller Probe he hasnt signalled that hes ready to take action against him. This seems to be just yet another step in his credibility battle with Robert Mueller. Leah, let me get your reaction to as well both the comments that Jeff Sessions job is safe until the midterms, some interpreting that as somewhat of a veiled, so to speak, if i can use that expression, but also not calling the Mueller Probe illegal. Right. So i dont even see it va vailed threat. I see it as a direct threat. We know that donald trump has been making very explicit threats to Jeff Sessions, in expressing his unhappiness with sessions refusal to put himself back into the russia investigation and to be a loyalist and to be a team player. Weve seen that over and over again. Weve heard reports behind the scenes that trump is dissatisfied and unhappy and has been mocking Jeff Sessions for quite some time. Hes putting it out there that he is willing to do what he thinks what it takes to face himself and to put himself in a position that he feels like Jeff Sessions isnt doing for him. Richard, let me get your if i can, your thoughts on the terminology of this being illegal. Does that signal anything to you about terms of the president s approach to the Mueller Probe or perhaps as i was just talking with robert about it being an escalation . Its more of the same old nonsense. Hes been calling it a witch hunt for over a year. Its obviously not a witch hunt. But the president s campaign manager, Deputy Campaign manager, former lawyer, all found guilty of felonies, others as well, this is a very serious investigation, hes accusing Robert Mueller of being a democrat. Everybody in washington knew that Robert Mueller was a republican coming into the Bush Administration at the fbi. The only evidence that hes a democrat, he played on the same High School Hockey team as john kerry. I guess that makes him a democrat. Its just ridiculous. They keep attacking bob mueller simply for doing his job. And the president tweeting his way into an obstruction of justice charge on top of all his other legal difficulties. More same old, same old. If he fires Jeff Sessions to get rid of mueller hes going to find another count of obstruction of justice. Obviously this is making news today, some senators earlier in the week as well saying that its just a matter of time before sessions gets fired. In doing so is the president signaling to his next potential attorney general what he wants done . And could that possibly become a factor in the obstruction of justice investigation . The way hes talking about sessions and what he wants sessions to do, which is to be a loyalist to quote leah. I agree, absolutely. And i think its a rudy two step, if you will, what theyre doing is clearing the decks for war. But the first step is to get through the midterms. And then theyre going to do whatever they want to get rid of sessions, to replace mcgahn with whomever, and go to war. And the thing about sessions, which is interesting, is that i guess theres only one way to define it, which is to obstruct the investigation, to see if he can get rid of rosenstein, to see if he can get rid of mueller and to do it after the election is over when he believes hes at his strongest. I think that this is a real threat to the country. And i think that its interesting when you see somebody like Lindsey Graham who has felt so strongly about this pull back, and say, oh, i guess we could get rid of sessions. I dont know if he thinks hes going to get the job or hes going to be the new counsel, but this is a dramatic attack on law and the constitution and only for one reason, for the president to cover his hind quarters. Theres no other reason for him to do this. So, robert, with the president signaling in his bloomberg interview hes going to at least hold onto sessions until the midterms, is there any chance that we see any kind of reaction from republican lawmakers who have been coming to the defense of Jeff Sessions and try and convince the president otherwise . I mean, are we going to see any kind of behind the scenes politics over the course of the next six to eight weeks . For now, they may be relieved on capitol hill because they dont want to have the distraction of the attorney general being fired. Right when right before voters go to the polls. But you may see a behind the Scenes Campaign now between the white house and congress where you have lawmakers urging the president to not take any action, not only until after the midterm elections, but until after Robert Mueller issues his report on the president s conduct. Theres no question in their eyes that theres obstruction of justice going on. If the president does go ahead and fire Jeff Sessions, robert, the next incoming attorney general is still going to have to be confirmed by the senate. He is from some political calculations, really making this an uphill battle for whoever his next attorney general would be. Exactly right. I mean, you think about the president s intent, still under scrutiny about what he did with then fbi director jim comey, if he moved on the attorney general, he would have that same kind of scrutiny. The president , is he removing Jeff Sessions, should it disrupt the russia investigation or not. Should they become a, gee, will they let the Mueller Investigation carry on or not. How does the decision to fire an attorney general, politically speaking, on one hand, as we heard from robert, have its own ramifications, legally speaking how can it fit into the big picture of obstruction of justice argument or narrative some have been saying the president is guilty of, leah . Sure, were talking about a president who markets himself as a law and order president who has no respect for law and order. Were saying the rules dont matter, the norms dont matter, tradition doesnt matter, what is legal doesnt matter, what matters is what i want to do. Thats the way trump has always kind of run his businesses, how hes run his campaign, how hes run his life. And why would the presidency be anything different . I think, too, when were thinking about obstruction of justice and what is it the president is trying to get around this, et cetera, et cetera, we have to keep in mind that this is a man who has never had consideration for the actual for rule of law and order and norm. Richard, let me get your thoughts really quickly on don mcgahn, the kind of flipflopping if you will as to whether or not he was pushed out, whether he is stepping down on his own, it seems to be some mixed signals coming out of the white house, or i should be clear, the president s twitter feed today. How do you see this playing into the fact that you had him recently interviewed by bob mueller for nearly 30 hours and then the way the president tweeted about him, that it was my decision for mcgahn to leave. Don mcgahn talked to Robert Mueller because he had an obligation to. Hes a lawyer for the president in his official capacity. Hes not the personal lawyer for President Trump and he had an obligation to talk with bob mueller and discuss what he saw. Hes witnessed a lot of obstruction of justice going all the way back to the beginning of this administration. So theres plenty to talk about for 30 hours there. Im shocked that he stayed this long. I dont know who was going to take his place, mr. Emmett flood wants that job or not. Any lawyer who gets wrapped up in helping donald trump fire Robert Mueller and obstruct justice is asking for themselves to get hit with an obstruction of justice charge, lose their law license. I dont think emmett flood will want to end up in jail. I dont know who wants to take this job if donald trump wants a lawyer running that White House Counsels Office whos going to or q orchestrate the firing of bob mueller. He sort of has no selfcontrol. The external control, to speak of, you know, way back. He needs to listen to people. But after that, once he became very famous, there was no external control. But he did have a little bit of selfcontrol. Right now he looks like hes out of control. So robert, let me get first your read from some of the contacts and sources you speak to, do you get a sense his allies think that this president is out of control . They believe that hes isolated, that hes making his own decisions, that chief of staff john kelly is not providing much of a guardrail around this presidency. Don mcgahn is heading for the exit. You have cabinet officials who may have a rapport with the president but arent trying to keep him away from any decision. Its really the president , his twitter account, a few core advisers, running on gut instinct. Thats the reality of this presidency. Some people in the Republican Party love it. Others are alarmed. John, theres a window of a guideline, if you will, if you want to use that among prosecutors, that is getting narrower by the day for bob mueller, to issue any possible indictments ahead of the midterm elections, and not appear to be political. Do you see there a perfect storm gathering between the Mueller Investigation, if the democrats take control of the house, that this president is legally not prepared for what may be coming his way . Oh, most of his administration has not been prepared. Hes used power and muscle and come on in any way that he felt he could. And covering up one set of lies for the next set of lies. But im not so sure that mueller is going to keep his powder dry, at rudys request, for the next 60 days. I just dont think thats going to happen. And i think hes right not to let that happen because its their strategy. But when the democrats come in, if they do have this wave and they come in, and theyre in charge of the committees, i think that were going to see an assault on the questions we had about taxes and abuses and corruption. But also about the obstruction and this crazy conspiracy that hes had with russia that leaves him meek, like some sort of doll when hes in helsinki. I think that were in for some rough waters. But i like the direction. I think theres been a tectonic schiff against the president and i think thats what were seeing here, his desperation. There was a remark today an senator mccains Memorial Service about how character is destiny. Well, if you have no character, your destiny has to be a tragedy. And thats what we have in the white house right now. To that point that john just brought up, leah, about the white house facing all these potential legal challenges, not staffed for it, generally the white house is generally its recruits pretty well as an institution that people want to work and serve their country. Do you see this administration, this white house capable of recruiting the talent they need for a possible legal challenge . So, on the one hand, this white house is absolutely understaffed across all areas. We know that, weve heard several reports, several books that have come out that have suggested that they are in no way they were in no way prepared to come to the white house and they have also continued that pattern at not filling in positions and not bringing in the right people. With that said, i think that people are always willing to work in their selfinterests for the right amount, and weve seen no shortage of people willing to step up and try and fill the plate. Mainly, i think what shocked everyone, but we shouldnt have been so surprised, is that congress, republicans within congress have become the first line of defense against donald trump the first line of defense for donald j. Trump and acteding on his behalf, which is in part why the house race and the midterm elections are so important because that can really change the dynamic in a number of different ways. Interesting enough. Well talk about that in a few moments. Cnbc is reporting that trumps lawyers dont want emmett flood to take over for don mcgahn because they like him on the Mueller Probe. Are they going to need a heavy hitter as counsel . How are they going to reconcile these two things . Well, you know, comeys compared these guys to organized crime and i think they want a wartime consill i dont know if he fits that role, but i on the other hand if its Rudy Giuliani or any number of people you can think of that have been strong in support of the wrong headed directions that mr. Trump has taken. That makes sense to me. I dont know that emmett flood would want to be in the position because having a client who never tells you the truth makes it very difficult for you to advise him what to do. And mcgahn is leaving because he told him what to do what was right and he didnt want to do that and hes upset even when he follows the advice that he couldnt do what he wanted to do, which would have been a tragedy up on the hill. I cant imagine anyone wanting that position given all of the pressures that they would be facing. All right, robert costa, richard painter, leah wright rig gur, thank you. More on the breaking news this evening on the feud between trump and sessions, what trump is reportedly saying behind his back. Ahead, a developing story, trump and Michael Cohen reportedly tried to buy decades of stories from the National Enquirer. A former executive at american media, the Parent Company of the enquirer, joined the beat exclusively tonight. And ron desantis says his controversial comment was not about race. Stay with us on the beat on msnbc. Raise their rates because of their first accident. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Their medicare options. E people go to learn about before theyre on medicare. Come on in. Youre turning 65 soon . Yep. And youre retiring at 67 . Thats the plan well, youve come to the right place. Its also a great time to learn about an aarp Medicare SupplementInsurance Plan, insured by Unitedhealthcare Insurance Company. Heres why. Medicare part b doesnt pay for everything. Only about 80 of your medical costs. This part is up to you. 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Hour, trump with a not so vailed threat against attorney general Jeff Sessions saying his job is safe, at least until the midterms. And then in the very same interview, trump bluntly calling the Mueller Probe a illegal investigation, joining me now is former federal prosecutor catny fleming, and nile stamage. Nooil, let me begin with you, i want to talk about the politics of firing Jeff Sessions, if, in fact, thats what the president does possibly after the midterms. This could go either way, because if the democrats take control of congress, the senate, even the house, its a much more uphill battle for him to get his attorney general in that position. Why would he wait until the midterms to do it . Well, i think theres no question that if democrats take over the senate, this isnt happening. I think this is something that allies of his are saying to try to get him to put this off, ultimately if he tries to make an appointment to replace sessions before november, nothings really going to happen. Theres a whole process there. But its interesting to me, ayman, were seeing these republicans like Lindsey Graham, for example, who once portrayed themselves as a curb on donald trump really going completely the opposite direction. You cant be a curb on one hand while waving a white flag in the other. Graham said there would be hell to pay if the president fired the attorney general. And there will probably be some kind of change. Kathy, from a legal standpoint, is there any legal repercussions from the Mueller Probe that firing your attorney general or replacing your attorney general, in itself, can be perceived as an obstruction of justice. Well, it would depend on the reasons hes replacing him. Certainly, theres nothing wrong with a president replacing an attorney general. He serves at the pleasure of the president. The president has the removal power according to the constitution, and he can. In the context of this presidency hes doing it, if hes doing it because hes not following his bidding or doing it with a corrupt purpose, or doing it for an improper purpose with bad intent, then it could be used as evidence against him in an obstruction probe. But i think that its hes been out in the open how he feels about Jeff Sessions. Exactly. Its certainly out there. And one of the things you have to say is he certainly seems to have lost faith in his attorney general. To say the least. And confidence as well. Its funny, you were saying how hes been open about his criticism of Jeff Sessions, in fact, hes been complaining to senators saying that sessions doesnt have the ivy league pedigree the president prefers, that he cant stand his southern back ent and that sessions cant defend the president on tv because he talks like he has marble in his mouth. Im surprised he has stayed there and not resigned, although being attorney general is certainly a great job. And if you, in fact, are independent and doing your job well its a Great Department to be the head of. But no, it does not sound like somebody whos criticizing, and what a way to criticize, you sound like you have marbles in your mouth, thats not really attacking someones legal acumen, is it . Not at all. Republicans do not want this headache, certainly between now and november, thats perhaps why he said that this is not going to happen before the midterms. But realistically speaking, regardless of the politics of it, the perception that the president would want to fire his attorney general just because he doesnt get along, republicans seem to be kind of okay with that, that they want an attorney general, or that they would accept the president appointing an attorney general whose job is to be loyal to the president and the white house, not upholding the law and running the department of justice. This is really an extraordinary thing to see and hear from some conservatives. What are they conserving when President Trump is talking about going against the norms in such an obvious way, to suggest that an attorney general or the department of justice should serve his particular political whims, that is not a small seat conservative principle at all. They do seem okay with it. Its not just Lindsey Graham. We also have Chuck Grassley seeming to align with the president. So there isnt much sign, again, of the Republican Party really acting to put the brakes on this in any meaningful way. Is there any way bob mueller can get to the core of the nature of the conversations between Jeff Sessions and the president , would he have the power to do that . It would depend on whether it was in a privileged context or not, thats a question of fact whether something is privileged and it would be a question of whether the president waived the privilege or not, it would depend on whether how Jeff Sessions felt. Certainly enough of its been public that its out there for interpretation, of someone to see it. We talk a lot about the politics of, is there anything the republicans can do to shore up Jeff Sessions job, and we always say this expression that the attorney general and other countermembers serve at the pleasure of the president , is there anything Jeff Sessions can do to save his job . Not really at this point. I mean, i think it is a bit of a challenge for those of us in journalists, and we have to take these excuses seriously, maybe the president doesnt like his accent or the university he went to. Look, the reason theres a problem here is that the president doesnt think Jeff Sessions is bowing to his will over recusal and over the Mueller Investigation. Thats the problem here, and i dont think that theres anything Jeff Sessions can do other than bend the knee to the president. If my memory serves me correctly, the president has been on the record saying that what kind of man recuses himself, what kind of man does this had he known that he was going to recuse himself he perhaps would not have appointed him in that position. It will be interesting to see if that qualifies to what you were saying earlier. Well, he has said that. And Jeff Sessions, in fact, did do it. And, in fact, he stayed in there. He wasnt fired. So if youre the president s lawyers, youre going to argue, well, he didnt fire him when he didnt do it. Thats evidence that he didnt want to obstruct justice. Fair point. But he certainly talked an awful lot about how he wanted to. Thank you so much. Donald trump trying to buy back decades of dirt the National Enquirer had on him. Im talking to a high ranking executive at the National Enquirers Parent Company. Back in 30 seconds. Order your kit at ancestrydna. Com. The kayak explore tool shows you the places you can fly on your budget. So you can be confident youre getting the most bang for your buck. Aloha. Kayak. Search one and done. This was a magazine that frankly, in many respects, should be very respected. Ive always said, why didnt the National Enquirer get the pa litser prize. The other top story tonight, explosive new details about Donald Trumps connection to the National Enquirer. And in a moment im going to talk to a former high ranking executive at the enquirers Parent Company, the New York Times reporting today that donald trump and Michael Cohen devised a plan to stop or to put a stop, at least, to salacious stories the tabloid had on trump. It appears to be much more than the allegations about trumps affair with karen mcdougal. The trump files reportedly include details on marriage problems, affairs, lawsuits and allegations of cheating at golf. The details bringing new context to the secret tapes leaked out by Michael Cohen, taking a new listen to that infamous conversation about buying, quote, stuff from the man who was leading the National Enquirer at the time, david pecker. I need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend david. So im going to do that right away. Give it to me and and ive spoken to Allen Weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with so what are we going to do . Funding yes. Its all the stuff. All the stuff. Because, you never know where that company correct, so im all over that. And i spoke to allen about it. Joining me now here on set is stew zako, Vice President for american media, the Parent Company of the National Enquirer, stew, great to have you. Thanks for having me. Lots to talk about here. Let me start off by asking you, from your position, your experience, to what extent can you confirm or deny that these files, in fact, existed and that the National Enquirer, whether it was david pecker or anyone else, maintained these files on the president . Lets look at journalism as a whole, you guys and nbc news maintain files on famous people in case anything happens. The enquirer maintains files on tips they pay for. When theyre paying for a tip, its not just so and so wore a nice out fit today, whether its a real file or a safe, whatever the image is, it keeps them relevant and also gives them leverage in working with those people. Some people who would be watching this with a skeptical eye would say why would a tabloid sit on salacious stories when it is in the business of selling salacious stories, why would they have these files on somebody like President Trump, as owe outlined, and then sit o them and do nothing with them . Its about collecting favors, more than anything. When youre a media owner and you have a vast variety of publications, ami does, information comes your way. As you collect famous people, you want to keep them in your favor. What better way to do that than killing stories that might embarrass them. How do you benefit from that in the long run, you keep something you can use when you need their help, whether its in breaking an advertiser that they have a connection with, or more importantly helping another publication that you own that is struggling at the newsstand, and killing a story in the enquirer, and convincing them to go to one of the other publications you have. So to that end, what was the relationship like between david pecker and President Trump from what youve seen, from what youve heard and observed . Theyve been friends, for a really long time. David pecker used to be owner of a magazine company, and they also had a wide variety of publications he did. Thats when they became friendly. Do you think david pecker would have an interest in protecting somebody like donald trump . As long as it helped his interests. One thing you have to remember about david pecker, he is a really smart businessman and is focused on business alone. Friends are way to get to your goals, thats how he sees it. Collecting people like trump are only there to help advance him. Are you surprised he was granted immunity . It suggests a big twist in his relationship with trump. What does it suggest to you . Well, i think a while ago pecker noticed that perhaps the benefits of his relationship with trump were ending, and he started to back off editorially in supporting him, maybe it was pushback from advertisers, from readers, or maybe he was just being a survivor, and sensed what was happening and anticipated this ahead of time. I want to bring into the conversation nira tanden who advised the clinton campaign. Attacking clintons health and accusing her of corruption, and back with us is john flannery. Great to have both of you join the conversation. Thank you. Nera, let me begin with you, your thoughts learning about the depth of the relationship when President Trump and the National Enquirer, and what he tried to do. Well, during the campaign it really did seem like the National Enquirer operated as a media arm of the Trump Campaign. Obviously they had cover story after cover story after cover story of attacking hillary in really vicious terms. And they had ridiculous positive pieces about donald trump. What i find shocking about these revelations is, just think of how much the National Enquirer hurt their own Business Sales in the moment by quashing the mcdougal story. And now were coming to find out that theres a whole file there. I mean, it really does seem pretty corrupt that they sat on this stuff during the campaign in order to really protect donald trump. And i think its interesting that this david pecker is ensnared in the investigation with mueller because i think it looks corrupt in many different ways. Yeah, and we were actually running some of these headlines, some of the covers from the National Enquirer, these are some of the real headlines, photoclinton blackmailed fbi, violent rage from booze, clinton paid hush money to hookers, how did clinton combat all of these . Thats an interesting question. John, i want to get your thoughts about, are we expected to see any more charges arising from this . Somebody like david pecker being granted immunity, for Michael Cohen, in exchange for his cooperation on Michael Cohen, seems somebody is influential perhaps as powerful as david pecker would be given immunity for something bigger than Michael Cohen, no . Yeah, i think so. Also, you cant you cant mix the word journalism with what the enquirer does when in the case of hillary, and you didnt have this coverup, they had her adopting an alien. You know, and they put a picture of the alien on the cover with hillary clinton. I mean, what kind of journalistic standards do you have . Plainly what they had was it was an arm of the campaign and more recently. For the rest of his life it would help him have a rosier image. And the possible offenses, if there were additional women, as avenatti suggested, he said there were three more, if they were involved in this campaign context, then there might be Additional Campaign violations. But theres also the question about how the money gets from a to b to c to cover the catch and kill costs that they have in which they mislead someone to think theyre going to be on the cover, or in the magazine, and then they kill the story and then the person doesnt come forward. And what Bank Accounts do they use and so forth . I think that they give immunity to somebody like mr. Pecker because they figure that its worth that trade to get at the more significant targets and to rip out this kind of misconduct in a campaign and perhaps bank fraud and other things that we dont know about. But we have reason to be concerned about and to test as an investigative hypothetical because thats exactly what happened in cohen. And the cohen tape, which says that there are more instances that they want to buy and own themselves has always struck me as a bizarre way to deal with this. Because what it does is it identifies, for certain, that they were doing this for trump, whereas otherwise they might have this journalistic nonsense covering it up. Stu, one of the things i wanted to ask you about, President Trump talked about object campaign trail, Conspiracy Theory about ted cruzs dad being involved in the political assassination of john f. Kennedy, to what extent did donald trump have control over the National Enquirer, not direct control, but how much of a dance was there between the National Enquirer and the Trump Campaign . No one has control over the enquirer but david pecker. Anything they did was with his knowledge and his help. The covers you showed, you have to remember the enquirer is really the father of fake news. Theres no rule that says what you put on that cover has to be true. Or what you put inside. Yet the value of that cover is immeasurable. No matter what goes on, if you see that cover, thats making recognition in your brain in whether you believe that image or not its affecting how people think. Do you think david pecker is being honest now, that hell be truthful . David pecker will be as truthful as he needs to be to be able to survive this. Which is no way to quantify that, right . Exactly. Nera, quickly, would you trust a tabloid during a president ial campaign . No, i wouldnt. But i would note the National Enquirer is just in Grocery Stores across the country, millions of people saw those covers. The fact that they, you know, kind of even though they made up excuses about hillarys health, and lied about hillarys health, that became a major issue in the campaign that trump attacked over and over and over again. And i think honestly the National Enquirer had millions of dollars in essentially free media tax on hillary clinton. And i think what were going to find out is how what level of coordination there was between david pecker and donald trump himself. I do not think mueller would bring in a media person unless this went to beyond Michael Cohen. Theres a tragic sadness in all of this, that a president who has constantly used the term fake news in dealing with Mainstream National media relied on fake news like the National Enquirer. Stu, neera and john flanly, thank you so much. Ahead, a developing story, roger stone is ready to go to war with bob mueller and kppts to be charged. Also, floridas republican gubernatorial nominee, ron desantis says his controversial comment was not about race. Michael eric dyson joins us straight ahead. And kanye west is defending President Trump, but hes making a big apology. Stay with us. Ry leader. Subaru forester holds its value better than any other vehicle in its class according to alg. Better than crv. Better than rav4. Better than rogue. An adventure that starts with a Subaru Forester will always leave you smiling. Get 0 percent apr financing on the 2018 Subaru Forester. But prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered. In jellyfish. In clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. So you have, your headphones, chair, new laptop, 24 7 tech support. Yep, thanks guys. I think he might need some support. Yes. Start them off right, with the School Supplies they need at low prices all summer long. Now save 150 on this dell notebook at office depot officemax. Now to the race to watch in florida, republican gubernatorial candidate ron desantis is under fire for comments he made about his opponent andrew gillum, desantis said his comments had nothing to do with race. Take a listen. So weve got to work hard to make sure that we continue florida going in a good direction, lets built off the success weve had on governor scott, the last thing we need to do is to monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda. Did you in any way, and do you in any way think that was something that was misstated or racist in any way . It has zero to do with race, sean. Sean hannity campaigned at one point for ron desantis in florida. With me is michael eric dyson, a nationally recognized he has hosted campaign rallies, author of 21 books including what truth sounds like. Michael, great to have you with us. Your views of those comments, how did you hear those comments, sir . Either he needs a rebate on the education he paid, the tuition he paid for his education at both yale and harvard or this man is plainly lying. This is a bull horn, amplification to, you know, mag a anitudes of decibels everybody can hear. Hes playing to his racist base. That is ostensibly neutral, but at the end of the day and the bottom line is we know hes playing to that deeply rooted bigotry that has resurged under donald trump and has proved not to be something that will discourage voters from something coming out but rather that encourages those of that ilk to come forward. He knew what he was doing when he was talking about a tall, handsome, dark skinned black man as monkeying up the process. He is alluding to images, tropes and metaphors of identity of monkeys that has been linked in the history. Let me play you gillums response to this, take a listen. Let me be articulate and clear here, which is were better than this in florida. I believe the congressman can be better than this. I regret that his mentor in politics is donald trump. But i do believe that the voters of the state of florida are going to reject the politics of division. Its clear that the congressman is going to join donald trump in the swamp. Were going to leave them there and were going to continue to press toward a higher mark. Do you, sir, agree with his remarks both in his assessment and also with that florida is going to reject that . Because in your first answer you seem to suggest that theyre not necessarily theres not necessarily punishment to pay when a candidate speaks this way to his base. Well, let me first of all acknowledge what he did brilliantly there. He said, let me be articulate and clear. Hes already combatting the vicious misimpression and misinformation about black people, our inability to speak or articulate or to enunciate not only clearly but to express vividly and eloquently those beliefs we have. So he was doing a bit of signifying himself right there, brilliant kudos to the future governor gillum. But, look, he took the right road here. Michelle obama says when they go low, we go high. Its not much to see into the cesspool that desantis is in, hes in florida there so its a swamp that needs to be drained, to be certain, as donald trump suggests. But, yes, i think that his viewpoint is not directly opposed to mine. Im saying that it will appeal to those people who already have preconsurvived ideas about what black people are. On the other hand what governor gillum to be was saying, we will rise above them and organize the logic of democracy around a different pivot. We come together, we have class and Economic Issues together beyond race. We have considerations of health care. We have considerations of money. We have considerations of the earning a decent wage. Those things are extremely important, and what gillum is saying here is that were not going to pitch ourselves to the narrow consideration of a desantis whos trying to send dog whistles and really bull horns to his people, the people of florida who are beyond that. The white people who dont agree with him, the white voters who understand that this is manipulation of racial rhetoric in defense of his own position, but it has nothing to do with politics at its best. In that sense gillum is right, those people will prevail and he has a great chance of becoming the next governor of florida. Let me get your thoughts on kanye west, a cultural force of his own. Hes defending donald trump. Your response to kanye wests defense of President Trump, saying he wants to be liked by black people, wants to be recognized for trying to do good things for black people. Like, you know, gillum, west is a friend of mine, i love him, hes a genius when it comes to music. He was early on in his career courageous and brave in going against the powers that be. But this sad capitulation to the force of bigotry of donald trump, this orange apparition that appears out of nowhere to cloud the american horizon of consciousness and dignity, its a shame that kanye west cant simply say that if i earlier said that george bush doesnt care for black people, when jimmy kim kwn mel he comes back with this answer. He says donald trump wants to be liked by black people. Who doesnt . They want to be accepted and tolerated by most people, including black people. It has nothing to do with the substance ethically of Donald Trumps beliefs and kanye west is doing a two step around the issue here. He refuses to address the fact that donald trump has been vicious, has been negligent, has been horrible when it comes to black people. And kanye west is looking for a justi justify justification to be an enemy to not only the forces of democracy but to africanamerican people. I love you, kanye west, but shame on you. Dont go to those extensive you know, to those extents to justify him. When i had a phone conversation with kanye after he put my tweets on blast, so to speak, my texts to him, and he talked to me and he says im looking for people who are brave and courageous and speak their mind. We call upon you, kanye west, to be informed before you speak. He apologized for making the statement about, you know, slavery is a choice. But hes got to be better informed. If youre going to speak up and speak out, at least speak from experience in something that is insightful. All right, michael eric dyson, always breaking it down for us, thank you for your insights. Ahead, roger stone thinks bob mueller will charge him with a crime. Tell you about that next. As moms, we send our kids out into the world, full of hope. And we dont want Something Like meningitis b getting in their way. Meningococcal group b disease, or meningitis b, is real. Bexsero is a vaccine to help prevent meningitis b in 1025 year olds. Even if meningitis b is uncommon, thats not a chance were willing to take. Meningitis b is different from the meningitis most teens were probably vaccinated against when younger. Were getting the word out against meningitis b. Our teens are getting bexsero. Bexsero should not be given if you had a severe allergic reaction after a previous dose. Most common side effects are pain, redness or hardness at the injection site; muscle pain; fatigue; headache; nausea; and joint pain. Bexsero may not protect all individuals. Tell your healthcare professional if youre pregnant or if you have received any other meningitis b vaccines. Ask your healthcare professional about the risks and benefits of bexsero and if vaccination with bexsero is right for your teen. Moms, we cant wait. All right. Roger stone says he expects bob mueller to charge him with a crime. Joining me now is nbcs ken dlan kbr dilanian from the investigative unit. What do we know . This is a letter that stone has sent to supporters, essentially appealing for help with his legal defense, which he said could cost as much as 2 million. Stone is one of the most colorful characters in this whole saga. Hes got Richard Nixons face tattooed on his back. And he goes back with donald trump some 40 years. He wasnt a formal part of the Trump Campaign, but theres large been questions swirling about whether he had advanced knowledge of the fact that the russians had hacked democratic emails and handed them over o e wikileaks. Now, he denies that, but hes also very clear in this letter that he thinks that mueller is about to charge him with a crime. He says eight of his current and former associates have been interrogated by the fbi, three have been called to the grand jury, but he said, he is never going to flip. He said, i intend to go to war with mueller and his deep state goons, because donald trump is 100 innocent and so am i. He also says that he believes they have been monitoring his text messages, phone calls, and emails since 2016. Now, what he may be talking about is the fact that they have obtain obtained them through part of their investigation and hes hearing about that when the fbi confronts associates of his. But this is a really interesting sort of sign, eamon, that the investigation into whether russia colluded with the Trump Campaign is very much ongoing and roger stone appears to be in the thick of it. Ken dilanian live for us in washington, d. C. Thank you very much. Well be right back. You bet. Thanks. Back. You bet thanks ek, but how will his denture cope with. A steak. Luckily for brad, this isnt a worry because hes discovered super poligrip. It holds his denture tight and helps give him 65 more chewing power. Leaving brad to dig in and enjoy the tastiest of tbones. 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S. Call today for a free guide. So you have, your headphones, chair, new laptop, 24 7 tech support. Yep, thanks guys. I think he might need some support. Yes. Start them off right, with the School Supplies they need at low prices all summer long. Now save 150 on this dell notebook at office depot officemax. Plaque psoriasis or psoriatic arthritis, Little Things can be a big deal. Thats why theres otezla. Otezla is not an injection or a cream. Its a pill that treats differently. For psoriasis, 75 clearer skin is achievable, with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. And for psoriatic arthritis, otezla is proven to reduce joint swelling, tenderness, and pain. And the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. Dont use if youre allergic to otezla. Otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. Tell your doctor if these occur. Otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. Tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. Some people taking otezla reported weight loss. Your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. Other side effects include upper respiratory tract infection and headache. Tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if youre pregnant or planning to be. Otezla. Show more of you. All right. Before we go. An update to that trump baby blimp story. Last month, londons mayor, sadiq khan, allowed this trump baby blimp to fly over the city. Well, now the mayors critics are ready to fly this bikiniclad blimp. The mayor joking about it saying, i dont really think yellow is my color, though. Just when you thought youve seen it all, we have this. All i can say, this is so 2018. That does it for me. Ill be right back here on the beat tomorrow night. Hardball, everyone, starts right now. Winter is coming. Lets play hardball. Good evening. Im Steve Kornacki in for Chris Matthews and we are following breaking news tonight. In a brandnew interview with bloomberg news, President Trump says he views the Mueller Probe as, quote, an illegal investigation, and he refuses to say whether he would comply with a subpoena from Robert Muellers team. The president also declining to say whether hell keep his attorney general, Jeff Sessions, in place beyond the november elections. Simply saying, i just would love to have him do a great job. Th