Also, Rudy Giuliani makes a new threat to bob mueller. More on that. Later, well also give you new reporting why Rudy Giuliani has beef with another trump lawyer, michael cohen. As i mentioned, the top story tonight is the day of reckoning for Paul Manafort. The jury is getting the official instructions from this judge, which means they are literally moments away from getting the case and deliberating on Paul Manaforts fate. A conviction on all the charges could give trumps cormer Campaign Manager an effective life sentence. Hes yet to face a trial, nor what could come down the fiek wi pike with a pardon. Whats happening is important, weve seen it in the this is bob muellers first criminal trial in the russia probe. A courtroom is overflowing at maximum capacity, manafort entered the court with a small smile, were told, his wife was sitting directly behind him in the first row. I will be clear, we know nothing about this moment about what this jury is thinking after all this, we do know what theyre thinking about. 11 days of testimony, financial records and evidence suggesting manafort committed crimes for years. And here is exactly how muellers team closed out their argument for jurors who might think that manafort got kind of the rough deal by stepping into the spotlight of politics and thats how he caught so much heat, they argued, you see it here on the screen, no person is above the law. And for anyone lost in the blizzard of accounting over these last several days they argued the Financial Crimes do boil down to a case about lies. A little bit more so you can judge it yourself. They say mr. Manafort lied when he had money and he lied to get more money when he didnt. And they also reminded this jury about manafort hiding his income as a loan, and, quote, poof, that magically becomes income. The prosecution then turning to manaforts star witness, the person who worked with him so much and heard him potentially so much rick gates caught with his hand in the cookie jar. And they told these jurors, except it wasnt a cookie jar, it was a huge dumpster of foreign money. Manafort did not take the stand, and his lawyers called zero witnesses during the trial. Many experts have noted that does suggest a kind of weakness to their case, even though legally theres nothing negative to be inferred from a defendant declining to testify. The jurors heard manaforts lawyers bring out a larger argument. It touches on something we all struggle with in life. What does it mean to know something, what does it mean to be certain . Well, these jurors were told by manaforts lawyers who didnt put on much evidence, hey, its not enough to think someone is probably guilty, or likely guilty, and as for all those debts and bills that may have looked even more than likely, well, they made a different argument, okay, even if thats a problem, im sure many of us have had some trouble paying bills. So here we are tonight as an Inflection Point on a night when donald trump wants people to be looking at other things and talking about other things, these jurors are going to be talking about one thing, was Paul Manafort involved in criminal conspiracies while he was running the Trump Campaign . This verdict could come as early as tomorrow morning. What happens next and what happens for manafort and mueller in the russia probe, a lot of that could basically depend on what these people, these americans whove heard all this evidence, what they decide in the coming days. Im joined now by ellie honeig, tim obrien, the author of trump nation and a former defendant in a trump lawsuit. And kim whaly who is also, of course, a former prosecutor. Ellie, when you look at what happens now, based on your trial experience, what do you think is in the minds of these jurors and how strong was the mueller Closing Argument . I think it was exactly as strong as it needed to be, ari. This is not a case where the prosecution needed to go in there and dazzle the jury. And sometimes there are trials where you need a little bit of dazzle. The evidence was so strong all that the prosecution needed to do was be solid and clear and credible and workmanlike. I think they did that. The line that jumped out at me, when i read it, i said thats smart, the prosecution said the star witness in this case is the documents. It doesnt rhyme, its not catchy, but its an effective summary. If it doesnt rhyme, im not interested. Some jurors may feel that way. Its boring, but effective. And it gets the attention off after rick gates and it gets the attention on those black and white documents that the defense cannot run from. It does go to the blizzard, though, kim, this that we see that the mueller team here both went in deep on all of the financi financialc financial chicanery. The defense, manaforts asking to ignore your common sense. Manaforts told so many lies about his income, he cant keep them straight. And, do you really think we need more witnesses . What were they doing there . Well, i do have something catchy for you, which is documents dont lie, they dont die, and they dont misremember. And here weve got jurors who have filled out tax returns, and they have applied for loans, or at least filled out forms, financial forms or credit cards, et cetera, and so they know that what theyve done, which is say the truth, tell the truth. And we also have, you know, ten witnesses, irs agent, fbi agent, former accountants in addition to, you know, three dozen emails confirming knowledge. So i think there is, you know, a tremendous amount of evidence in favor of the government here. And to the extent to which, if we have a hung jury, which i think is unlikely, it would be for some reason other than a doubt for which there can be a reason, which is the standard that the government has to satisfy, beyond a reasonable doubt. Uhhuh, well, tim, since were all quoting, and that was about lies, there is a saying in hip hop that also exists beyond hip hop, that men lie, women lie, numbers dont lie. Right. And yet Paul Manafort, if he has anything in common with donald trump its in an area youve reported extensively on, which earned you that lawsuit, which is lying about money. Lying about income, lying about, you know, paperwork around deals, you know, getting back to elie said, i do think there is a very damning stream of evidence here presented to this jury. It would seem to me as an outsider looking in that theres zero chance of acquittal here. But there can be a road theres always there could be a rogue juror in here, it could go either way. Where it is now, it beg it is question, one, that if he does get convicted, why did manaforts attorneys go to the line on this one . And why didnt he plead out earlier . And i think, you know, again, raw speculation, hes probably anticipating getting a pardon at some point. But if this goes against him, theyre really going to have to rethink that whole strategy. I think the other thing to bear in mind here is theres still another trial. He has to go through another trial in washington in september. Sure. If this one goes off the rails, do they delay that one and get this one sorted out or do they deal with this one at a later date . Washington post notes trump seems to genuinely believe that the investigation is unfair. Stick it to mueller. This is something that other president s, including in the irancontra matter, you saw pardons and people felt that it was obviously looked guilty, but at that time it was lawful. I think, ari, if we have a conviction here, i think were going to enter a really interesting sort of staredown between the president and Paul Manafort, manaforts not going to take a conviction and go die in jail. Hes not that kind of person. I think hes hoping for a pardon, and i think the president is hoping to prevent him from cooperating, but he needs cover if hes going to give a pardon. Those tweets where the president is saying manafort is being treated unfairly, i think, set a pretext to cover the president if he does decide to go the pardon route. You know, on the other you know, he faces 30 years. Paul manafort is going to spend the rest of his life in jail if hes convicted here. Hes also going to have to think about whether or not hes going to cooperate if this verdict gets handed down against him. As for the judgment, this is a week where youve seen Donald Trumps judgment in hiring from omarosa to Paul Manafort really called into question. Are these the best people . Even donald trump says no. Look at the former Campaign Manager liewandowski talking about this in advance. Criminal . Not a criminal. Theres no vetting process i could have gone through to check Paul Manaforts financial stability. I couldnt call and say, hey, can you run a background check . It doesnt work that way. The Trump Campaign was a clown rodeo. Corey li Corey Lewandowski was not an ideal Campaign Manager. Trump lacks the discipline, patience and sophistication to attract a level people. He always talks about playing threedimensional chess, most of the time its like third graders playing bin go bingo. They werent oriented toward putting high quality people in the white house. A lot of people hitched their stars to his wagon. They ended up with people who were incompetent or had bad motives. Kim, when you look at this kind of case, what would you expect in the timeline of this jury to make a decision . Well, i think it will it should be swift. If its not swift, then i think thats really going to be a concern for the government. But i want to make up just to get that point, and then you can go ahead. Youre saying the longer theyre deliberating, the worse that is for mueller because it suggests a holdout in otherwise what could be a, quote, slam dunk case . Correct. It sounds like the instructions were read verbally, which is unusual, and the instructions set forth what to prove. That might take them some time. But with this kind of evidence it seems like it should go swiftly. But what i wanted to say about the pardon, even if trump were to pardon him here after a conviction, that would not necessarily mean that mueller still couldnt subpoena him for information about the russia investigation in the grand jury. If he pleads the fifth, then what . Remember, thats really what mueller wants here. And so in a way, so long as manafort doesnt talk, trump is kind of winning in that regard. They still dont have manaforts testimony relating to the broader question of russian collusion. They have gates, but they dont have manafort. And i trust that youre using trump as winning loosely when youre considering his Campaign Chair is on trial, his former National Security adviser pled guilty, that his deputy Campaign Manager pled guilty and other aides have pled guilty. Its a loose form of winning. Im talking about the broader, political its not even political, its really a constitutional battle between the president whos calling this a witch hunt, whos attacking the justice department, whos claiming that prosecutors have no integrity, that the fbi is corrupt. That broader question, i think, is really the bigger thing thats at stake here. I was just being dry. Yeah. Well, were in a jovial mood tonight, so that makes sense. Anytime. We can mix the serious with the wider lens. Kim whaly, thank you. Theres another important story where trump is revoking the security clearance of john brennan, and also Rudy Giuliani trying to link this manafort trial to the trump interview. Why . And later a special discussion with a watergate lawyer on how and when republicans in Congress Actually turned on nixon and what it spells for donald trump. Plus, Michael Eric Dyson is here with trump attacks, and racial controversy. A well educated black has a tremendous advantage over a well educated white. If i were starting off today, i would love to be a well educated black. Im ari melber. Youre watching the beat on msnbc. Investments avoids them. Some advisers have hidden and layered fees. Fisher investments never does. And while some advisers are happy to earn commissions from you whether you do well or not, Fisher Investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. Maybe thats why most of our clients come from other money managers. Fisher investments. Clearly better money management. All your school get supplies today. School. Grade. Done. Done. Hit the Snooze Button and get low prices on School Supplies all summer long. Like these for only a 25 cents at office depot officemax. Sfx [cell phone dialing] no. No, no, no, no, no. Cancel. Cancel. Please. Aaagh being in the know is a good thing. Thats why discover will alert you if your Social Security number is found on any one of thousands of risky sites. This is a story about mail and packages. And its also a story about people. People who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams theyre handing us more than mail theyre handing us their business and while we make more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget. That your business is our business the United States postal service. Priority you this wifi is fast. I know i know i know i know when did brian move back in . Brians back . He doesnt get my room. Hes only going to be here for like a week. Like a month, tops. Oh boy. Wifi fast enough for the whole family is simple, easy, awesome. In many cultures, young men would stay with their families until their 40s. Another major story tonight involves allegations that Trump White House is abusing National Security powers to punish critics. If that sounds like a headline from nixons enemy lists, well tonight there are National Security experts saying it is. The white house is trying to change the topic from what appeared to be an increasingly losing battle for trump with omarosa, or from Paul Manaforts trial, the top story tonight, to donald trump aiming fire at john brennan, one of his harshest critics. I have decided to revoke the security clearance of john brennan. Mr. Brennan has recently leveraged his status as a former highranking official with access to highly Sensitive Information to make a series of unfounded and outrageous allegations wild outbursts on the internet and television about this administration. Wild outbursts. A host of other critics, former officials, brennan punching back and hes making waves tonight right now by likening this to the behavior of despots and autocrats. This is not going to deter me at all. Im going to continue to speak out. Ive seen this type of behavior and actions on the part of foreign tyrants and despots and autocrats for many, many years during my cia and National Security career. I never, ever thought that i would see it here in the United States. I am joined by david preece. Hes a briefer who used to actually give bob mueller his morning intelligence briefing. Back with me is bloombergs tim obrien. When you look at this, david, how inappropriate is this type of use of the intelligence powers, and the revoking of a classified access . Ill be blunt. This is not america. John said that very clearly when he compared this to the acts of a foreign despot that he would have studied as an analyst at cia. This is not the way we operate. This is political speech by a former government official, political speech. And he is being funnishpunished, or at least the president is attempting to punish him for it. The odd thing is it will probably be counterproductive in this way. I dont know of a single Senior Intelligence official or u. S. Government employee who would feel constrained from speaking out because of this. In fact, this is likely to motivate more of the very thing that presumably the president is trying to prevent with this unprecedented action. So its both counterproductive i dont want to be i take your moral and patriotic criticism, and i think that applies. And i dont want to be too depressing. But it also seems that the notion that this will automatically hurt the white house is debatable at a practical level, and what they are clearly trying to do is further polarize these debates to fracture any notion of the bipartisan intelligence consensus that may have had some leftover existence, and say that if you want to be a part of that, or have access to intel, or be a part of that brain trust that used to exist, you cant really criticize the president and sort of cleave the community in that way. I take your point, but theres a false premise there. Which is that the security clearance is for the benefit of john brennan, or the list of others, the mike haydens, the jim clappers. Theyre not getting any benefit from this. The reason they have those security clearances as legacy former senior officials in the Intel Community is to make it easier for them to consult on major issues that come up that could benefit the current officers there. I can virtually guarantee that gina haspel, like all her predecessors, reached out to the former directors of Central Intelligence to talk to them as she started her job to say what are the things you wish you would have known earlier, what are the mistakes you made that i can avoid early on . Those conversations can still happen. She can call in john brennan to her office anytime she pleases. But its a little bit easier with a security clearance. This isnt about john brennan, its actually hurting the u. S. Government by creating this new this new world that is hard to believe in where your political speech affects whether youre able to hold a security clearance. And as you put it, that speech is, itself, a constitutionally protected right. I think you put it very well and give us a crash course on some of the issues here. Tim, when you look at this, this is also politically an example of the kind of thing that the white house uses to threaten to abuse power and then sometimes its dismissed as well dont give that attention, its a distraction, indeed weve dug this up, speaker ryan initially, obviously its clear if barack obama did this, speaker ryan would have a public heart attack, if you will, rhetorically. He said, well, this isnt real, so we dont have to worry about it. Take a look at him calling this nothing by trolling. Hes trolling people, honestly, i think. This is something thats in the purview of the executive branch. Some of these people have already lost their clearances. Its not really in our purview. The Banana Republic comments. Hes trolling people. Its not trolling. Its using National Security powers according to many of these experts to punish descent. To quash descent, opposition, and institutions. This isnt a week in which the last two weeks hes called the media enemies of the people, hes routinely called Robert Muellers investigation a witch hunt. At a Campaign Fundraiser earlier this week he called Fact Checkers at newspapers bad people. And now hes revoking security clearances of Public Servants who are members of the Law Enforcement and intelligence communities. Why . Because hes progressively and routinely trying to undermine the institutions in the United States that should function in a nonpartisan way and are part of keeping a check on the presidency and the federal government because he doesnt want to be checked, he doesnt want his voracity to be examined because hes doing exactly what people who have autocratic impulses do, which is to quash the opposition. Tim obrien and davis priess on this story, thank you very much. Up ahead, we got breaking news in the newsroom about what the jury is doing in the manafort trial within the last few minutes. And Rudy Giulianis latest attack on mueller. Back in 30 seconds. I believe, i really do believe that somethings got a hold on me, yeah oh, it must be love oh, somethings got a hold on me right now, child oh, it must be love let me tell you now, oh it must be love breaking news, the Paul Manafort jury now has the case. These 12 jurors deciding manaforts fate, and they will take the case and begin official deliberations after being counselled by this judge, they will begin in court tomorrow, 9 30 a. M. Now, moments ago manaforts lawyer said they were, quote, very happy with how today went. Mr. Manafort was very happy with how things went today. His defense team got to address the jury, point out the shortcomings in the governments case, and explain how the government has not met their burden of proof. Thank you. So whats new as of this moment is that were learning they dont begin deliberating tonight, that it took long enough today, including those oral instructions from the judge, that the jury will decide all of this, analyze the case, the evidence, the burden of proof, starting tomorrow and they, like any jury, can reach their judgment anytime. A conviction on all the charges could potentially, depending on sentencing, give trumps former Campaign Manager an effective life sentence. Now, you have the Paul Manafort case, you have the jury there, and then you have rudy jugiulia getting involved. He says bob muellers team is so busy with this part of the case they dont have any time left for him. Are you any closer to having a deal with mueller to sit down . No. Havent heard from him in a week. How do you interpret that . I think theyre waiting for the i hate to bring up the case. I think theyre waiting for the manafort case. I think they feel if they win theyre going to be empowered. If they lose and i dont know it doesnt have anything to do with us. Were trying to tell them, i dont care what happens with manafort. The president s lawyer saying he doesnt care what happens to manafort. Donald trump has tweeted about it, and seems to care. Meanwhile, bob mueller is not discussing any of these negotiations in public, or through intermediaries. Meanwhile, giuliani digging in on a new strategy on a key element that could come up in the potential obstruction case regarding the fbi, because theres a denial that trump now even talked to james comey who was at the time fbi director about that famous allegation that trump allegedly said it was time to go easy on mike flynn. Were worried about perjury trap because the president says he didnt have the conversation about flynn. The way the way that comey says he had the conversation, he didnt have it, not that they never spoke. Didnt have it at all. Thats a new position. It is not. The president has said to you i never said any word to him ever about flynn ever . In that context . Pretty much, yeah, thats pretty close. Pretty much or maybe not. Now, this is part of the debate. James comey did testify under oath. Donald trump hasnt done that in this case. And he also memorialized it, which adds contemporaneous support, there was a memo the day he met with trump. At that time, he said, quote, i hope you can let this go. And giuliani may be trying to discredit comey who, of course, is a potentially strong witness, but hes also going after mueller as the prosecutor saying if bob mueller doesnt finish the report soon, hell unload on him like a ton of bricks. For analysis, i am joined by jennifer todd, the professor at Vermont Law School and an expert in white collar crime, and elie honig. When you look at this, the information we have that the jury is deliberating tomorrow morning, rudy is saying that bob mueller is just sitting around watching the returns on that. Does that sound right . Not at all. What rudy is doing here is hes stalling. If you ever had young kids and try to put them to bed, they stall, they will grasp at any excuse to put off whats coming inevitably. Thats what rudy is doing here. Hes imposing this artificial september 1 deadline which hes in no position to impose. At the same time hes setting this deadline hes trying to run out the clock. Theres a political motive. He wants to blame mueller if this carries on, and it should carry on through the midterms. Youre saying that rudy partially wants to say well, however long this is, you can always have a holdout juror, a mistrial, a new trial, thats muellers fault, the timing. This deliberation shouldnt take long. The longest youll see would be a week or so. That shouldnt impact this. And rudy is really distorting this 60day practice. Rudy is putting it out there like its a statute or a law or a regulation. Its a practice, something that doj does. What you do not do is stop your investigation and you do not end it. You dont make grand public announcements. You dont do things that would potentially interfere with the election. Exactly, but you carry on. Unless youre james comey, and you do. Were not going to relive that at this particular moment. Jennifer, the other thing that obviously undercuts Rudy Giulianis claim is that the mueller grand jury is busy and hearing witnesses and weve had some public reporting on that, including people tied to roger stone. Hes speaking out, again, about that aspect of it, take a look. I think if they bring a case against me, it will be a fabricated case. Theres no circumstances whatsoever, ed, in which i will testify against the president. I have no information that would be negative towards the president. And im not going to make any up in order to get out of a tight spot, if some false allegation is brought against me. What do you think of the indications that theyre looking closely at stone and the way hes been punching back . Jennifer. You know, roger stone is the ultimate loyalist. I believe him when he says he wont testify against the president. But he might not really have that opportunity. And it might not be necessary. It looks like he might be, himself, a target of the investigation so they wont ask him to speak to the special prosecutors office, or even the grand jury. When i think about roger stone, i always remember that he has this tattoo of Richard Nixons face, tattooed right between his shoulder blades. I wonder at this point if hes trying to work out maybe getting, you know, trumps face stamped on his lower back or Something Like this. I dont think we really need that to know how loyal hell be to trump, however. I mean, yeah, he is, as you say, tatted and inked up, elie, without any other associations. Its his most famous thing, that tattoo. But hes been very clear in doing this in public. What is so different about this case from so many other president ial investigations is how the trump world witnesses do speak out in public and they do speak through the television. What do you think stone is doing there in these appearances . I think hes just posturing. I think hes just talking tough. You saw it from rudy. We saw it from stone here. Theyre coming at stone hard from all angles. You can see that mueller is subpoenaing everyone around stone and you can see why. If you think back to the russian hacker indictment, i think its paragraph 44, which everyone, including stone seems to agree is talking about stone, a person who had regular contact with senior members of the trump president ial campaign about the hacked emails. If i was mueller, my eyes would light up at that. I would want to know everything i could. Who in the campaign, which senior members, plural, in the indictment is he talking to. You pull out all the stops to get that information. And, jennifer, if you go down that road, though, you still have roger stone potentially arguing that he was a free agent, that he was not on the campaign payroll, and if hes not going to implicate people above him, then whatever messages he sent were on his own authority. It seems like when you go back and look at the communications that have already surfaced between him and wikileaks, when we look at his own the tweets he put out saying soon it was going to be podestas time in the barrel, when we consider the communications, he also had with the campaign, it seems pretty clear that he was operating as some sort of middleman between them and the campaign. I dont think that the documents, you know i think that it would undermine any argument that he was simply a free agent. I think thats an interesting point and thats one prosecutors will look at. He was inserted intermediary who also puffed. If your whole collusion case rests on someone whos known to exaggerate, is that the best youve got . I have to fit in a break. Im going to pause here and say thank you to jennifer and elie. A correction from this white house for job numbers. Donald trumps attack more widely on barack obama as a political matter. But first, an overlooked parallel between trump and nixon. A former watergate lawyer who reveals theres something of a myth about bipartisanship and why it matters now. Okay we need to get all your School Supplies today. School. Grade. Done. Done. Hit the Snooze Button and get low prices on School Supplies all summer long. Like these for only a 25 cents at office depot officemax. You wouldnt accept from any one else. Why accept it from an allergy pill . Flonase relieves sneezing, itchy, watery eyes and a runny nose, plus nasal congestion, which most pills dont. Its more complete allergy relief. Flonase. And back pain made it hard to sleep and get up on time. Then i found aleve pm. The only one to combine a safe sleep aid, plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. Im back. Aleve pm for a better am. Hundred roads named park in the u. S. Its americas most popular street name. But allstate agents know thats where the similarity stops. If youre on park street in reno, nevada, the high winds of the Washoe Zephyr could damage your siding. And thats very different than living on park ave in sheboygan, wisconsin, where ice dams could cause water damage. But no matter what park you live on, one of 10,000 local allstate agents knows yours. Now that you know the truth, are you in good hands . Since the start of the russia probe there have been many parallels drawn between Donald Trumps situation and watergate. The banking and Financial Crime sounds like the parallel to watergate. It sounds like a direct hush money, sounds like watergate. Two different stories about this trump tower meeting, and what it does is reminds me of watergate. We have to go to watergate in order to make sense of whats happening tonight. There are many parallels to watergate. Weve explored them on this show as well. But there is a parallel thats also been overlooked, and thats how republicans in these eras have responded. My next guest, michael conway, was counsel to the House Judiciary Committee during nixons impeachment. He says its no surprise republicans are still in line with trump right now. He writes that the notion that nixon era republicans defended law over politics is largely a myth. Republicans did initially defend nixon at all costs. He argues they even slammed the investigation as a, quote, witch hunt or hysteria. And Vice President gerald ford described the whole investigation as nothing but a cloud of doubt. A cloud of doubt hangs over washington as we are gathered here this evening. It is a cloud that must be cleared away for the sake of our country. The tone may be different, but the substance is similar, cleared away is him calling for an end of the probe, something weve heard from trumps legal team and Many Republican allies in congress. I think the Mueller Investigation has got to stop. We should now spend our time protecting ourselves instead of having this witch hunt on the president. Ive been pushing for a year to end this investigation. I thought it was basically corrupt from the very beginning. Put up or shut up, mueller. Its all about timing. Conway arguing that what you just heard largely does match what many nixon era republicans initially did in reacting to the probe. And they only started to break with nixon after those smoking gun tapes came out, far later than the moment were in right now. But it was a moment when one republican congressman described inferences becoming fact. Up until yesterday i was ready to be one of the ones who felt that he was the victim of a well orchestrated vendetta. But yesterday the inferences turned into fact. We dont know whether the evidence in this case will come out the way watergate did. Conway was there, and he argues that history shows when it comes to these kind of high drama political probes, party does matter a lot, and law is not only the first thing the partisans are thinking of. To get into it, i am joined by michael conway, and former congresswoman donna edwards. Michael, you wrote this to correct a myth. What do you hope to come out of it . I think to correct the record a little bit obviously at the end of the day there were republicans after the smoking gun tape came out who agreed, at least to the one article of impeachment about obstruction of justice, but up to then, really for two years from the watergate burglary until august of 1974, the partisans rallied around the president. Gerald ford said this was a witch hunt, a word weve heard repeated many times now. Bob dole then in the senate said that this was an effort by the democrats and the Washington Post to essentially go after the president. Even up until the time that the articles were voted and yes, republicans did vote for the two main articles of impeachment. The majority of republicans in the House Judiciary Committee voted against it. Trent lott who was a congressman on the Committee Said he saw no direct evidence that nixon for all the Cocktail Party chatter how this will go down, when people look back at that era, there were different or better republicans back then, youre arguing thats not the case, it was more when the evidence moved them, what happened, lets show, of course, the famous howard baker moment which you add context to. Take a look. What did the president know . And when did he know it . What did the president know and when did he first know it . You argue that while that sounds tough in hindsight, it was actually meant to protect nixon in the, quote, mistaken belief the president didnt know about the coverup, and you also write once those hearings started bakers staff was leaking information about the chis witnesses and plans to mr. Nixon. What are you getting at there . Well, absolutely. That at the time this was the Senate Committee the year before the impeachment inquiry, and senator baker was the lead republican on that committee and the minority of the committee. He was, in fact, cooperating that we have a memo that john dean wrote at the time telling the president that senator baker wanted to meet with him, but wanted to keep it private so he could keep his purity on the committee. And when he postulated that question of when did he know it . The idea was he thought the president didnt know it until much later and that it was his subordinates acting on their own that did the coverup. When the facts showed he did know earlier, then senator baker became a critic. The evidence point you make, ari, is very important. There were members of the committee, republicans of the House Judiciary Committee, who felt the evidence was sufficient. Right. A minority of them, 71 case, to vote for it. They were moved. That brings us to congresswoman edwards, your view of this theory . I think that in washington sometimes were also romanticizing the past, where there was some bipartisan cooperation, and it turns out, and michael has done a great job of putting this together in historical context, look, i remember as a gawky, geeky 16yearold watching the gavel to gavel coverage of the watergate hearings and that there were no profiles. I recall, im from maryland, solarry hogan jr. Was the only republican to vote for all three articles of impeachment. If were waiting for the profiles in courage to emerge among republicans well be waiting for a long time, right up until the time when the impeachment articles are being delivered. To exe tend mikes point, wt it means in our proclivity, to say we know things and we can predict things, people look at polling when, in fact, maybe what is so important here is that we dont actually know, a, what evidence will come out, and b, how people will react, but it would only help trump if cynicism took root so deeply to assume that the congress couldnt be moved by anything if, if the facts ultimately show something that merits action. Well, i think people did think the same thing in watergate, what is it thats going to make the Congress Move . And thats why ive said all along how important it is for us to both preserve the integrity of the Mueller Investigation, but really even as democrats, to await the results so that we can then all be responding at the same time to the same set of facts. Congressman congresswoman edwards, knowing your expertise, its very interesting. Thank you both for being on here tonight. More strategy about mis leading claims about Barack Obamas record. Im thrilled to be joined by the one and only professor michael eric dayson next. To explore. With two times more detail than any other dna test. You can connect more deeply to the places of your past. And be inspired to learn about the people and traditions that make you, you. Savor your dna story. Only 59 our sites lowest price ever. Experience the versatility of utility. At the lexus golden opportunity sales event. Get up to 2,500 customer cash on select 2018 nx 300 models. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. Ive been making blades here at gillette for 20 years. Theres a lot of innovation that goes into making americas 1 shave. Precision machinery and highquality materials from around the world. Nobody else even comes close. Now starting at 7. 99. Gillette. The best a man can get. 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Liberty the Trump White House has gotten caught in many different lies, but here is one where they are actually back pedaling. This president , since he took office in the year and a half that hes been here has created 700,000 new jobs for africanamericans. When president obama left after eight years in office, eight years in office he had only created 195,000 jobs for africanamericans. President trump in his first year and a half has already tripled what president obama did in eight years. Thats not true. But unlike some of these other stories, i can tell you, the white house now concedes that claim was inaccurate. Here are the facts. President obama created 3 million jobs for africanamericans. Trump has mis represented obamas record before. Remember this explosive claim that barack obama did not call families of troops for those who died in duty. This was denied by obamas aides, but also by veterans families. The traditional way of you look at president obama and other president s, most of them didnt make calls, a lot of them didnt make calls. I like to call when its appropriate. I am joined and a long time observer of american politics. And we do know things are polarized. Do you notice an obsessive or extreme type of relationship or political attacks of trump versus obama and what do you think that in this one, they did back down a little bit. To be certain, there is an extreme difference between these two men. And an obsession with obama by President Trump trying to outdo him. This birtherism claims. He must have gotten in on negative version of affirmative action. So after this man from the beginning. He has swag envy. And because of that swag envy, the ability of obama to step into a room and command it. Just by virtue of his charisma. To evoke a kind of recognition of him. Even those who oppose him had to acknowledge that there is a charisma. And he hates the guy who came in before because he wants to eviscerate him, wipe him out. Here is the following, hey, look, obama didnt meet with the black caucus early on. Made it difficult for parents to support their kids and get scholarship money as a result of that through school and i have tried to lessen the load. He could actually make legitimate claims that are at least up for debate. He doesnt choose that route. I think it is fascinating because you are raising a nuanced policy point. If there was a genuine desire to seek uncharted territory with education, with urban development, some of that could be done. But it is not. It is not done. As you put it, the pursuit of swag. And as some have put it, swag sauce, swaggu. He has not gone down the road of acting like the current president. He did not say the t word in his mandela remarks. Lets take a look. We see the utter loss of shame among political leaders, where they are caught in a lie. Politicians have been caught in a lie, but if you used to catch them in a lie, they would be like oh, man. And now they keep on lying. What do you think he is doing there that is important. Even the up beat nature what he was trying to address. When we know i think it is fair to say that he and his team are mournful over the direction of american politics under trump. Look at the instincts there. It is self criticism. When he says they lie, he has to include himself because he is part of that category. He is in it. Here is a guy who is conscious of a fact that he is part of a problem that he is trying to overcome. This is what we miss in president obama. What we know at the end of the day is that he respected that office, he was conscious of the legitimacy that he bore as a result of that office and the gravity of the matters that came before him and dealt with them with respect and integrity that even those who disagree with him, bitterly could not impeach him as a human being and a man. And this is what we are missing. And donald trump could not compensate with that. We like learning from you. And when your class is in session, we feel no need to skip. Thank you, sir. And we will be right back. I was there, just not always where i needed to be. Is she alright . I hope so. So i talked to my doctor about humira. I learned humira is for people who still have symptoms of Crohns Disease after trying other medications. And the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief and many achieved remission in as little as 4 weeks. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. 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People who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams theyre handing us more than mail theyre handing us their business and while we make more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget. That your business is our business the United States postal service. Priority you we talk about the busy news period we are in. But tomorrow will potentially be a huge news day. The jury will officially begin deliberating in Paul Manaforts trial. As soon as it comes out, it will be here on msnbc and covering it either way. Interview with former teacher of the year who won a big primary. We are out of time now. Up next is hardball with Chris Matthews. Reality bites. Lets play hardball. Good evening, i am Chris Matthews in washington. The star of an old time tv show once put it, what a revolten development this is. Finally meeting his match in Omarosa Manigault newman. The woman she learned everything
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