Transcripts For MSNBCW The Beat With Ari Melber 20180422

Well as explicitly naming members. The Trump Campaign is punching back. They say this is a sham lawsuit about bogus collusion. All of this coming as james comey has exposed many things about donald trump in those new memos, including that he was allegedly upset that he didnt know about a phone call from putin right after the inauguration. Trump allegedly then confronting Michael Flynn about it, and flynn said the return call to putin was scheduled a few days later, which prompted a heated reply from trump that six days was not an appropriate period of time to return that call. So not only was putin one of the first people to call donald trump after his inauguration, but trump was apparently incensed about the return time of those calls. Diplomacy. And another unusual interaction getting a lot of attention tonight. Comey writing that trump brought up the russia dossier repeatedly, that he denied those very salacious allegations that weve reported on and saying although they werent true, they were apparently allegedly discussed with putin. Now, im only telling you this because its right there in these unusual contemporaneous memos that james comey chose to keep. Last night in an interview weve discussed on this show that were waiting for that has now occurred, Rachel Maddow pressing comey on that whole conversation. He told you that hed had a personal conversation with president putin about hookers . Yes. Did you believe him, or did you thunk he was speaking hyperbolically . He didnt seem to be speaking hyperbolically. Thats an important and new exchange because rachels getting at the question of was this just more puffery, hyperbole, lies for whatever reason, or is there Something Real here . Now, we do know that trump and putin were speaking directly on the phone about that time. We dont know what they talked about. You may recall the transcripts have leaked but not theirs. We can show you something else, though, right now. Vladimir putin used some of the same language that you just heard when he was asked about the dossier at a press conference, and the context here is this was just weeks before comeys conversation with trump about all this. Translator i dont know mr. Trump. Ive never met him. Hard to imagine why hed run to a hotel room to meet with russian girls of questionable social stature although no doubt russia has the best of those girls. Im joined by congresswoman jackie speier, Nick Ackerman, an msnbc terrorism analyst, malcolm nance. Congresswoman, much has come out and much has been discussed about these comey memos, which leaked from your congress, your institution, not you per se. Walk us through what you think is significant about this and was congress right to leak them . Well, this is an example where the majority, the republicans wanted desperately for those memos to come under their possession so they could use them as a weapon. They then, i think, leaked them immediately, and it sort of blew up in their faces. It just confirms what then director comey had said during the hearings on the senate side and also what he has been saying all along. I think the most one of the most interesting elements of it was the fact that the president referred to Michael Flynn, who was in a very sensitive position as his National Security adviser, and commenting to director comey at the time that he was concerned about his judgment. Well, why would you put someone in that kind of a position if you did not believe they had sound judgment . Malcolm . Well, its all fascinating to me. You know, id like to touch on one point that i felt was absolutely amazing in the comey memo, which was it appears that donald trump, when he was saying to jim comey the whole part about how russia has the best women, that he might be a little detached from reality. Many of us heard during that time the comments made by Vladimir Putin of women of questionable social responsibility and how russia might have the best women in the world. Donald trump somehow seemed to take that comment and embody it and bring that into his reality as if he had actually spoken to the russian president. So your theory lets go into that. Your theory of the case because this is new to our viewers because we just dug up that footage. Your theory of the case is that donald trump may not have had that private conversation with putin but, rather, heard those words from putin and integrated it in his own mind into an imagined conversation . Yes. And weve seen this happen several times before. I mean unless i mean the first phone call of a president of the United States with the president of russia, and if they have a conversation about russian prostitutes in there, then thats disturbing enough. But i really think that he just heard that comment from putin and incorporated that into his reality. And i think thats the single most disturbing part of the entire release we had yesterday. Well, its a fascinating question, Nick Ackerman. As you know in court, theres a saying, not bad meaning bad but bad meaning good. Do you know that saying . I do know that saying. I wonder whether this is bad meaning good if donald trump was imagining these things, that raises a lot of questions about him. But it might be legally good for him if he wasnt discussing the dossier with trump. It might. But he may have been discussing the dossier with trump. Throughout the campaign, he was boasting that he knew putin well, that he had conversations with him. And then when the press pointed out to him and others pointed out to him, hey, thats not so good. It sort of questions his loyalty to the u. S. He suddenly claimed, oh, i never talked to putin, never explained his prior statements. So youve got a series of prior inconsistent statements where it appeared he was having his own conversations with putin. We dont know what the truth is. We dont know if during the campaign, trump and putin had not communicated in some way. Bill, let me ask you the legal part. Obviously we understand why certain parts of this are getting a lot of attention. But the legal part that is more dry, but potentially more legally significant, is do these memos increase or decrease the credibility of james comey as a witness . Oh, completely increase. These are contemporaneous memos. He wrote down everything right after it happened. And if you read through them as a totality, theyre even more interesting because you can almost tell, even though hes been criticized for not saying that trump was obstructing justice, you could almost feel the obstruction when he starts just going into the detail and description of what trump is saying and how he is saying it. It just reeks of obstruction of justice. Congresswoman, same question to you. I think that it underscores comeys reputation generally as, you know, being straightshooter accurate. I also think it calls into question once again the fitness of the president to serve because as comey said in those contemporaneous notes, it was like a puzzle. He was throwing one puzzle piece down, then pulling it back up, jumping from one topic to another in a monologue. He does not track well. And in terms of his ability to lie, we have seen that over and over and over again. Congresswoman, when you say these memos make you question Donald Trumps fitness, what do you mean . I have for a long time been very concerned about the president s fitness to serve, and i worry whether he is fueling the fires against north korea with his fire and fury language or whether he is just having a conversation in this case with director comey and how he jumps from topic to topic. There isnt the kind of discipline associated with what we would expect a president to have. But do these memos, in your view, raise questions about his actual ability to do the job and his legitimacy because the i would suggest to you that what it shows is that he does not have the displicipline to b able to have a conversation, to engage with someone in a manner that has a give and take, that he is constantly jumping from one topic to another. He does that in his press conferences all the time. He continues to repeat sentences over and over again. I worry about his fitness. Malcolm nance, i want to turn to the other piece of this, which is where the Intelligence Services landed on what was a difficult situation. I have summed up some of what we see from the memos as yet again when it comes to james comey, good memory, questionable judgment, by which i mean that at least with the benefit of hindsight, there are things that any rational person would have done differently. And as comey himself has acknowledged in some of these interviews, there are times when he didnt really step all the way up and say to the Trump White House as they broke certain rules, dont do that. This is wrong. He navigated, and people in government do that. I put the question knto you, knowing what we know now, how better could they have handled this delicate briefing at trump tower which clearly didnt go as the Intelligence Leaders wanted . You know, the fault that lies in that is that they thought by going and briefing donald trump, that he would be a rational, dignified player who would take this information on logically and use it for the good of the nation. And clearly they didnt know who they were briefing. They were briefing a man who took this as a personal affront to him and decided to weaponize the very knowledge of it. I think you put it perfectly. Im going to push you a little harder because one of the most things were most proud of here at the beat is how smart our viewers are. I bet you a lot of our viewers would say to you, well, if you run an intelligence agency, how come you didnt understand by the transition who donald trump was because a lot of other people had been observing his behavior and his approach, his monetizing of the campaign and the presidency rather than pursuing the public interest, his lack of a record or history in every doing anything public interest. Quite the contrary. More stealing from charities and that kind of thing. Why were these people, who have intelligence in their title, if youll permit me to be that jocular, why didnt they understand that you dont brief this president the way you might have briefed other president s, obama or bush . Right. I agree with you 100 . I wrote a whole book about this before the election. You know. The norms were just shattered here. And they should have known, particularly the fbi. Knowing that the profile of this individual may have been involved in a counterintelligence operation against the nation, but they had standards, traditions, and norms that they had to fulfill and did fulfill for every president. And they just had to maintain that. Nick . Yeah. Look, i think youve got to go through this whole thing in general. You look at the whole thing, and it really does corroborate what comey has been saying from the beginning. I think thats the bottom line. If you had him on the witness stand, youd feel real comfortable in front of a jury saying this guy is believable. At the end of the day, witnesses, particularly in a case of government activity or obstruction, they are there for the facts more than their opinions. And people have debated james comeys opinions for a couple of years now. On the facts, i was struck, having studied these memos last night, on how every material fact they corroborated what was said in the book. Excellent panel. Congresswoman jackie speier. Thank you, Nick Ackerman and malcolm nance. Coming up, this revelation about the fbi and the newest member of trumps legal team, Rudy Giuliani. Later, my special report on trumps desire to control the doj. The keys were learning from the comey memos. Also new audiotapes now disclosed show trump to literally be someone else in order to try to fool people about how rich he was. I have the journalist live who went public with the john barron tapes. Most of the assets have been consolidated to mr. Trump because you have down fred trump. I think you can use donald trump now and just consolidate. Tonight on the beat, i have an interview with the oscar winning Actor Sean Penn and his new book about america in the age of trump. Im ari melber. Youre watching the beat on msnbc. With new car replacement, if your brand new car gets totaled, Liberty Mutual will pay the entire value plus depreciation. Liberty stands with you. Liberty mutual insurance. Is it to carry cargo. Or to carry on a legacy . Its show of strength. Or its sign of intelligence . In crossing harsh terrain. Or breaking new ground . This is the mercedesbenz suv family. Greatness comes in many forms. Lease the gla250 for 349 a month at your local mercedesbenz dealer. Mercedesbenz. The best or nothing. For all the noses that stuff up around daisies. For all the eyes that get itchy and watery near pugs. For all the people who sneeze around dust. Theres Flonase Sensimist allergy relief. It relieves all your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills dont. Its more complete allergy relief. And all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. Flonase sensimist helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. Most pills only block one. And 6 is greater than 1. Flonase sensimist. He gets the best deal on the Perfect Hotel by using. Tripadvisor thats because tripadvisor lets you start your trip on the right foot. By comparing prices from over 200 booking sites to find the right hotel for you at the lowest price. Saving you up to 30 youll be bathing in savings tripadvisor. Check the latest reviews and lowest prices. When this guy got a flat tire in the middle of the night, so he got home safe. Yeah, my dad says our insurance doesnt have that. What . you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. Liberty mutual insurance. Heres a big story. James comey just told Rachel Maddow that Rudy Giulianis elections comments sparked an fbi leak investigation. Comments like this. And then i think hes got a surprise or two that youre going to hear about in the next few days. I mean im talking about some pretty big surprises. I heard you say that this morning. What do you mean . Youll see. Youll see. Giuliani later claimed the surprise he was referring to was new ads by the Trump Campaign. Apparently the fbi thought differently as comey revealed to rachel. Did Rudy Giuliani and therefore the Trump Campaign have advance notice from inside the fbi, from the new York Field Office or wherever, that this announcement from you was coming . Not that i know of, but i saw that same publicity, and so i commissioned an investigation to see if we could understand whether people were disclosing information out of the new york office or any other place that resulted in rudys report on fox news. It was not the first time in the campaign that giuliani seemed to have a headsup about events. One day after trump asked for russias help in finding Hillary Clintons emails, Rudy Giuliani said this. The russians have those emails. Theyve had them for some time. What . Giuliani is now a new member of Donald Trumps criminal Legal Defense team. Im joined by msnbcs howard fineman, and sam seder, host of the majority report. Howard is a closer friend of mine and the show than you are, but im going to begin with you. Okay. I was going to say i yield my time. Because you have spoken forcefully and thoughtfully about this relationship between fox news, conservative commentary, what we saw rudy make this case, and other insiddous parts of unseen politics. What do you make of this . You know, Wayne Barrett from the village voice, who wrote about donald trump for years and years and years and had a very long relationship with him, wrote quite a bit about the nexus coming out of the new york fbi office. Former head Jim Kallstrom there and Rudy Giulianis relationship, and theres a lot of weird stuff. You throw in felix sater who was both an asset for the cia. Theres a lot of relationships with active and former fbi agents. I mean Rudy Giuliani clearly there was trying to impress a lot of people at fox, and was trying to just on some level, just sort of go out and boast about his connections. I mean its laughable when you look at it now. And im really curious as to what happened to that investigation that comey initiated into that relationship between new york fbi office and Rudy Giuliani because you remember, thats also where there was a lot of supposed upheaval during the course of this investigation and where this Anthony Weiner stuff came out. Its a very strange nexus. And we havent even touched on this tonight. The comey memos say that donald trump was personally asking comey about what you just said. Was there an fbi revolt . Was there conservative or republican pressure that somehow was working the system . And it also reveals that Reince Priebus wanted a full briefing on why Hillary Clintons offenses were not, quote, chargeable . I mean theres a lot in these memos other than what may or may not have happened in moscow. Take a listen to Rudy Giuliani again doing what he does. I had expected this for the last honestly, tell you the truth, i thought it was going to be about three or four weeks ago. I did nothing to get it out. I had no role in it. Did i hear about it . Youre darn right i heard about it. Well, im trying to figure out why donald trump did this, namely, why he named Rudy Giuliani to his team because dont forget, at the beginning of the assembly of the administration, donald trump projected the idea of having Rudy Giuliani onboard. Everybody around the inner circle of donald trump said, rudy, no. No rudy, no rudy. So thats the first thing. The second thing is based on what rudy himself has said he may have made it all up, who knows he should be the subject of the investigation, not somebody representing the president in the investigation. Well, you raise something, and i want to be he said he knew about the 30,000 i want to be very clear. What comey is saying, what he disclosed on msnbc, is that they were looking into whether the fbi was leaking to giuliani. As untoward as all of that is, it makes rudy a key player. Yes. But the first line of the investigation would be whether people inside the fbi did anything wrong. Right. I wonder what you think about why donald trump would be moved back towards rudy when they clearly didnt get along enough to bring him on at first. Heres a few reasons. Number one, the Southern District of new york as you were discussing. As you know as a lawyer, as somebody who has been involved in court cases, theres no more revered jurisdiction than the Southern District of new york and the u. S. Attorney there. Indeed i will just interrupt to add to your point, it is the place where rudy was the prosecutor, Mary Jo White who went on to run the sec, a man named james comey, and a man named preet bharara. It is one of the toughest places. The sort of most logical and above board and sensible legal explanation is by bringing Rudy Giuliani is, theres a certain amount, however much james comey attacked Rudy Giuliani in james comeys book, theres a certain bit of prestige and honor among colleagues in the u. S. Attorneys office skpm. And by bringing rudy in, donald trump to one extent is signaling that the Michael Cohen thing is really important because thats happening in the Southern District. And theyre saying, look, weve got a guy whos been the u. S. Attorney there. Thats one explanation. Another explanation is that, a Less Charitable one, is donald trump is in this bizarre world of hes got a fox cabinet. Hes got sean hannity as his chief of staff. Hes got john bolton as his National Security adviser. Hes got larry kudlow as his economic adviser. Rudy is out there to be in his tv cabinet. That brings us full circle around the bend. If donald trump is offered legal advice and its not commissioned and presented on fox news, does it make a sound . Well, i mean, its quite possible that hannity basically said to him, pick up rudy. I mean im not being fa receice. I think its quite possible that hannity is sitting around with rudy and hannity said to donald trump, you should get rudy. That would be, even for this world, that would be ridiculous. The only thing that would make me believe that would be if i dont know, if hannity and trump shared the same lawyers or something. Exactly. And theres also one other element. I mean, look, we dont know what rudys exposure is in all of the investigations that are going around here. I mean it may be the case that the only investigation that we know about involves maybe he received some leaks. But Rudy Giuliani has some interests involved in turkey. We dont know and has represented there. We dont know where flynn comes in. My control room is melting down because were 90 seconds over on this segment. Thank you both. I want to go and turn to our next guest, who has a new clue in this central mystery about donald trump. Is he as rich as he claims . Today theres a former forbes investigative journalist revealing new audiotapes from the 1980s. He says they feature trump calling him and lying about his wealth, part of an effort to land a spot on the coveted forbes 400 richest list. But the kicker, trump doing it with a fake identity. He pretends to be a trump representative named john barron. Okay. Whats your first name by the way . John. John. John barron. Most of the assets have been consolidated to mr. Trump because you have down fred trump. I think you can use donald trump now and just consolidate. Are you saying perhaps for tax purposes the ownership has been transferred to donald trump. Correct. Thats correct. Okay. And when you say in excess of 90 of the ownership id say in excess of 90. Well, its really closer to even the ultimate, but its in excess of 90 , yes. I am now joined by my special guest, that former forbes investigative journalist jonathan greenberg. Why is this audio coming out now . What do you want people to know . Well, i didnt find the audio until a few months ago. It was and i want people to know the extent to which, you know, trumps entire Business Empire and reputation as a successful businessman is based upon deception. To the extent and in a way, its sort of unbelievable until you hear it with your own ears. So when i unearthed these audiotapes that i had, you know, in my storage for 35 years and looked at them, i saw john barron, v. P. Of finance, 1984, for the forbes rich list. I was like wait a minute. Then i listened to them, and i realized between that and the other interviews i had done with donald himself in 82 and 83, acting as donald trump, and all the subsequent information, how intricate the fraud of his net worth was and also how instead of 100 million, which i put him down for in 1982, he was actually worth 5 million at that time. Now, yes or no . Has anyone else to your knowledge ever acted as a fake spokesman for themself in your interviews . No. It was something it was like i didnt even think of it. I had heard him in 82, 83 its so bizarre. Then you write that you had a confidentiality agreement, meaning an off the record understanding with john barron. But you dont feel you need to honor that because the agreement was reached with a fictitious person . Thats correct. He didnt exist. So its like he was doing this deception and using this off the record concept to hope that it would never catch up with him. Why do you think it was so important to donald trump to lie about his wealth, and what does it tell you about his tax returns potentially . I think it was important because, you know, there were some basic fundamental things that got put into the forbes 400 and to up his net worth because donald never had an actual statement of his assets and his liabilities. He used the forbes 400 and this statement of inflated assets to borrow billions and billions of dollars, which he used to build Atlantic City and overleverage himself. This is an important point. By the way, were looking at the forbes cover story. And i commend you for being willing to speak out like this. I know you were 25 i believe when this whole thing started. There are many lines of work, including reporters, who if theyre conned, they kind of want to leave it alone. So it takes a lot for you to say that you feel that he conned you, and you want to speak out on it. You just made in closing a very important point. You think he was doing this not only for media, which weve always heard about, but youre saying he wanted to use the forbes list to fraudulently induce people to fund him in ways they otherwise would not . Thats correct. I think he did that. And i think the reason hes not releasing his tax returns is because he will show it is not at the level of success that he claims. Do you think its possible hes not even a billionaire . I think its possible hes not a billionaire on a multiple of cash flow basis. I was waiting for you to say multiple of cash flow basis, and you did. And that caps the whole interview. Jonathan greenberg, again, i really thank you for telling this story and telling it on the beat. Thank you very much, ari. Up ahead, we turn to my special report on what comeys memos reveal about trumps approach to justice and why he wanted senior ranking doj officials to be personally loyal. And tonight our special. Oscar winning Actor Sean Penn for his first appearance on the beat and his view on the trump era. Then its friday and well be doing fallback friday as well tonight. Stay with us. This is the ocean. Just listen. vo theres so much we want to show her. We needed a car that would last long enough to see it all. avo subaru outback. Ninety eight percent are still on the road after 10 years. Come on mom, lets go oh very nice. Now im turning into my dad. I text in full sentences. I refer to every child as chief. This hat was free. What am i supposed to do, not wear it . Next thing you know, im telling strangers defense wins championships. Well, it does. Right . Why is the door open . Are we trying to air condition the whole neighborhood . At least i bundled home and auto on an internet website, progressive. Com. Progressive cant save you from becoming your parents, but we can save you money when you bundle home and auto. I mean, why would i replace this . Its not broken. Discover card. I mean, i justis this for real . Match, yep. We match all the cash back new cardmembers earn at the end of their first year, automatically. Whoo i got my money hard to contain yourself, isnt it . Uh huh let it go whoo get a dollarfordollar match at the end of your first year. Only from discover. Brbut how will his dentured to thicope with. A steak. Luckily for brad, this isnt a worry because hes discovered super poligrip. It holds his denture tight and helps give him 65 more chewing power. Leaving brad to dig in and enjoy the tastiest of tbones. Super poligrip, helping you enjoy the foods you love. We need to help more tocalifornians get ahead. D, thats why Antonio Villaraigosa brought both parties together to balance the state budget with record investments in public schools. And new Career Training programs. As mayor of la, he brought police and residents together to get illegal guns off the streets and keep kids out of gangs, and on the right path. Thats Antonio Villaraigosa. A governor for all of california. The other top story tonight, president Donald Trumps fixation on the upper echelons of federal Law Enforcement and what it now means in what remains the criminal obstruction case looking at his conduct as well as others in the white house. James comeys memos have revealed in more stark detail than weve ever seen from contemporaneous notes, not what people say later but what he wrote at the time they reveal trump obsessed with high ranking officials in the fbi and the doj and that it started earlier and ran much deeper than many people knew. These memos show donald trump, for example, explicitly concerned about guess who . Rod rosenstein, who would go on to be muellers boss. Well, he was looking at rosenstein from the very beginning back when he was just a nominee for Deputy Attorney general. Memos show that trump was asking comey about how republicans were holding up rosensteins nomination. The memos also depict trump as very curious about Barack Obamas two attorneys general, eric holder and loretta lynch, asking comey to even compare the two. The comey lynch relationship generates questions to this day. It seems to me like with loretta lynch, you worried very much about what misinformed people were going to say about her, that there was no true reason to have concerns about Loretta Lynchs integrity with that investigation, but misinformed people would get the wrong idea, and you took action to account for that rather than the truth. Well, maybe in a slight sense. That was one of the bricks in the load that led me to believe that if i do the announcement next to loretta, it wont have credibility. Ive already spoken about that, so i wont get into it right now. On the trump side of things, we get a fuller picture of trumps reported quest to obtain something inappropriate. Personal loyalty from the fbi director. Of course weve heard about some of that. But the memos in more contemporaneous detail show trump testing comey in several different ways, asking, for example, was he following the political tweets from donald trump and was he following White House Press briefings, which is bizarre if he was working during the day. We also learn it was not just trump asking comey to let Michael Flynn go. It was also trumps chief of staff asking about flynn. Was he asking if mike flynn is currently under surveillance or if mike flynn is under a very serious form of investigation . Do you know what he was getting at by asking you that . Not for sure. I think he was asking is there current electronic surveillance under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of the National Security adviser. Mmhmm. And you did give him an answer. Correct. Trump fired comey, and he said it was over russia. Now, later there was, of course, comeys deputy, andrew mccabe, who was run out of the doj in one of the most unusual firings ever. Weve reported on that. But there is so much more now in these memos that came out last night. Comey is depicting trump as obsessed with mccabe. In january of 2017, he asked if mccabe would have a problem working with trump because trump had so viciously publicly attacked him during the campaign. In february, trump asked if mccabe knew about his attacks on him in the campaign. Then in march again at the end of an unrelated conversation, trump mentions that he hadnt brought up mccabe during the conversation, which is a way of bringing it up, and then saying, well, he trusts comeys view backing up mccabe. Comey calls trumps takedown of his former number two shameful. Are you concerned theres been an orchestrated campaign to target you and other people who could corroborate your testimony as witnesses . Theres certainly been an organized campaign to target me. There was definitely an organized campaign to attack andy mccabe and urge his firing, tear down his reputation, attack his wife, just shameful attacks from the president directly. Just shapefmeful according t comey. The news has broken that mccabe is through the trump justice department, could himself become a target. You take this all together, put aside some of the other stuff we have reported. Its newsworthy, but in this breakdown youll notice some of the things i didnt mention about the memos. And look at the picture that james comey was writing far before he knew that he would be fired or that there would be a bob mueller or anything else. You know, Donald Trumps critics often depict him as clueless or even demented. These memos written from inside the room, they show something else. They cast donald trump as canny and sophisticated and detailoriented if albeit perhaps paranoid. And they cast him as someone who does not respect the rule of law and who is hellbent on squashing any potential legal threat from inside the doj. That is something worth keeping in mind as more evidence comes out in this open probe. Still ahead tonight, i turn to my conversation with Academy Award winning Actor Sean Penn. He talks about Donald Trumps america in his new book, and its withering. But first you know what day it is, and so hopefully you know it is fallback friday. When we are back in just 90 seconds. Stuck down here between your seat and your console, playing a little hidenseek. Cold. Warmer. Warmer. Ah boiling. Jackpot. And if youve got cutrate car insurance, you could be picking up these charges yourself. So get allstate, where agents help keep you protected from mayhem. Like me. Mayhem is everywhere. Are you in good hands . With this level of intelligence. Its a supercomputer. With this grade of protection. Its a fortress. And with this standard of luxury. Its an oasis. The 2018 eclass. Its everything you need it to be. And more. Lease the e300 for 569 a month at your local mercedesbenz dealer. Mercedesbenz. The best or nothing. Its friday on the beat. You know what that means. It is time to fall back. I am joined tonight by awardwinning dj and producer j. Period. Hes worked with john legend, a little hamilton, linmanuel miranda. His newest mix tape is called Wakanda Forever eva. Im also joined by sean kress pa who is a write foret the acclaid full frontal. Who needs to fall back this week . Man, i think the first person i would say is anyone who has not recognized the significance of hiphop culture. You know, we are now in the Kennedy Center, the smithsonian, the Kennedy Center Just Announced a hiphop culture council. So Kendrick Lamar won the pulitzer a couple days ago. I think its fair to say hiphop has arrived. Or maybe kendrick won the pulitzer and Margaret Atwood needs to fall back. You know what im saying . I do know what youre saying. Whos your vote . There was a study or report that came out yesterday or today that white evangelicals are doubling down on their support of trump, and i feel like white evangelicals need to fall back. I dont know what its going to take for that relationship to come to an end. I feel like at this point trump would have to impregnate a bible and have cohen pay for the abortion for them to be like, maybe we shouldnt do this. But that would be just another commandment violated. Hes already violated other commandments. How do you up that game, though . Its such a creepy symbiotic relationship. It would be like if damians parents instead of being horrified about what damian, it would be like if they sent damian to a Montessori School for telekinetic murdering. How was knife floating class, sweet heart . My fall back is Chris Christie and his super expensive portrait. This is one way to go out. You can take a look. Chris christie is getting his portrait as new jersey governor. Do we have it . 85,000. Were going to show you the past governors portraits. It is a lot of paint. These are nice little portraits here. This is going to cost more than the three of those beautiful portraits combined. Do you remember this . Have you seen this . My only hope is maybe they will base it off of his time with donald trump when he had the silent scream. Do you remember that . I do not remember that. Look. He doesnt move at all. See that . So we were thinking, and this is the end of my fall back speech. If we went more of an edvard munch vibe and just channel that, maybe that would be something. Id be behind that. Id go to that art gallery. Just nothing but Chris Christie screaming portraits. Do you have any other fall backs . I feel like also with schumer finally pushing for the decriminalization of marijuana like a good fallback, its 4 20. Jeff sessions flooneeds to fallk because theres so many uses for medical marijuana, vets, ptsd, seizures. Its just ludicrous that marijuana is a schedule 1 drug and so is heroin. Thats insane. If train spotting were a movie about a bunch of pot heads it would literally be maybe its not just Jeff Sessions but our antiquated federal laws on classifying drugs needs to fall back, which is a catchy sentence. They should emboss that in latin or something. Sean crespo, jperiod, thank you both for being here. Up next, oscar winning actor sean pen is here on the beat next. With new car replacement, if your brand new car gets totaled, Liberty Mutual will pay the entire value plus depreciation. Liberty stands with you. Liberty mutual insurance. For all the noses that stuff up around daisies. For all the eyes that get itchy and watery near pugs. For all the people who sneeze around dust. Theres Flonase Sensimist allergy relief. It relieves all your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills dont. Its more complete allergy relief. And all from a gentle mist you can barely feel. Flonase sensimist helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. Most pills only block one. And 6 is greater than 1. Flonase sensimist. Capdynamic lightingrs elevated comfort powerfully efficient and one more thing the world comes with it you can go your own way. The 2019 Jeep Cherokee when this guy got a flat tire in the middle of the night, so he got home safe. Yeah, my dad says our insurance doesnt have that. What . you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. Liberty mutual insurance. Donald trump is not just triggering a political resistance right now. There is a cultural backlash as well. Take oscar winner sean penn known for his iconic roles in films like mystic river and milk. Now hes taking on a trumplike character in his new novel, bob honey, who just do stuff. Sean penn joins me on the beat. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. What are you saying with this novel . I think essentially its a love letter to the best of this country disguised as an equal opportunity high offender. When you look at a fictional president that in this book tweets that has echos of trump, why take on trump that way . Well, i think the book is much less reflective of any particular individual than it is a kind of lament about you know, a humorous lament about where weve come as a culture at large. The leaders are results of all of that, and its a kind of its a cry for mutual accountability. Which goes to a passage i want to reach, which folks can interpret for themselves. But talking about the character who is based, it appears at times, on trump, you say, quote, many wonderful American People in pain and rage elected you, addressing this person. Many russians did too. Though the office will remain real, you never were nor will be. I think when taat im talkin about at large is where weve become a society so invested in branding that people themselves exist only as a brand. How do you as an artist approach that insight when you are also, to many people, sean penn, a brand, a figure, not just a human being . Yeah. I mean i think theres two ways to live a life. One is to be in pursuit of being a brand, and the other one is to fight and run as much as you can. Youre never going to win entirely because people are going to have their perceptions of you. You may also have, you know, in one way or another created a perception of oneself. Why did so Many Americans then want to literally elect a brand . Well, certainly weve come to a point where those things once considered principles of integrity are considered a fools game. And i think that the way in which the culture has become enamored of that celebrity, i often think about this president , the way that the audience meaning the electorate, were it a batman movie, this is them rooting for the joker against their own interests and looking to beat batman down. Where they go in the Movie Theater and while they might enjoy the colorful quality of a performance of a joker, they want batman to win. And i think the transfer from what we want in our real lives and what we want in our fantasy life has become a poisonous counterpoint. Your book has definitely stirred up debate already. There are people who really dont like it, and we know that from a new ad here. This is in the New York Times and other papers that your publisher is running. So this is pretty unusual. The first quote says, from marie claire, honestly, shut your face, sean penn. Another says, quote, sean penn, the novelist must be stopped. Is this book wildly offensive, quote, it is. Then some of them speak to the way art can be more than one thing. Ill keep reading this to you to prolong the awkwardness of this moment. Quote, entertaining and maddening in equal nature. The guardian says, repellent on one level but stupid on so many others. Tell me about your reaction to this reaction and why its an ad in the times. I do like this a lot. It kind of makes me feel like, yes, i did it. The author jane smiley said something fantastic and it got me thinking. She said after reading the book, she thought that this was going to be about 25 75. 25 of the people that read the book were going to love it and the other 75 were going to loathe it. I thought thats a much better ratio than ive had in my personal relationships, so its a victory for me. While youre here, i want to talk to you about the drug war in el chapo. Its something that youve worked on. Its something we covered on this show. Your 60 minutes on el chapo was one of the most seen 60 minutes until stormy daniels. Talk about a news hook comparison. Lets take a look. On january 8th when the Mexican Marines finally raided el chapo has seen in this video, they caught him as he attempted still another escape. Chapos arrest raised questions about whether the actor and actress had been trapped and helped lead the marines to the drug lord. There are irrational people, so i cant say for sure that theres no risk. You were talking about the process that went into your lengthy and much discussed article. This is now an issue in el chapos trial. Im reading from what federal prosecutors say. Theyre asking a judge to block jurors from even reading sean penns article about el chapo, arguing that presenting it to jurors would, quote, draw sympathy for the defendant, el chapo. Number one, do you think the jurors should be able to read your article . And, number two, what do you see as you look at him facing justice in an american courtroom . First, i would say that it represents a misreading of my piece. Largely what i found is that most who had reported on the piece in the first place, there was evidence that theyd never read it, that theyd excerpts of it and sort of regurgitated those. What my position about whether or not jurors should be able to read this is a legal issue, and i think that its not for me to say. We love having you on the beat. Sean penn. The book is, bob honey who just do stuff. Some people like it, and some people dont as we discussed with sean. Thank you for being here. Thanks very much. Yup, money. In fact, drivers who switched from geico to esurance saved hundreds. Thats auto and Home Insurance for the modern world. Esurance. An allstate company. Click or call. Or a canythingo. But ive got an idea sir. Get domo. Itll connect us to everything thats going on in the company. Get it for jean whos always cold. For the sales team, it and the warehouse crew. Give us the data we need. In one place, anywhere we need it. Help us do our jobs better. With domo we can run this place together. Well thats thats your job i guess. Hey grandpa. Hey, kid. Really good to see you. You too. You tell grandma you were going fishing again . Maybe. vo the best things in life keep going. Thats why i got a subaru, too. Love is out there. Find it in a subaru crosstrek. With esurance photo claims, you could have money for repairs within a day. Wow that was really fast. Thats insurance for the modern world. Esurance, click or call. And breaking news on the mueller probe. This is from the washington post. We just got it. They are reporting attorney general Jeff Sessions has warned the white house that he would consider leaving his job if trump went ahead and removed his deputy, the acting boss for bob mueller, rod rosenstein. Now, sessions has recused himself from the entire russia probe, which we know is a big point of frustration for donald trump. This message according to the post was delivered by Jeff Sessions through the official channels to the white House Counsel just last weekend. That was right after rosenstein, you guessed it, approved the fbi raid on Donald Trumps longtime personal attorney, Michael Cohen. What youre seeing is a warning about what would happen if donald trump went ahead and went after rosenstein. And that warning is a potential saturday night massacre. That does it for me. Be sure to she told archie she was dating this man. If he didnt like it, he could leave. He had been stabbed multiple times. Nobody saw anything. I went dad . And i touched him. Ill never forget that feeling. It was just before dawn when he found his father dead in the driveway. Theres no doubt in my mind what happened. I immediately knew. There was someone else who may have known, too. I turned and looked at my mom, like you know who did this, that son of a bitch