Over Donald Trumps trade war, it includes as well a slide for facebook which has been hammered by a trump digital whistle blower, hes going to speak out on the beat tonight. When mueller calls the white house, i can tell you hell now find a different lawyer picking up the phone, because john dowd, who was the president s top criminal defense lawyer on russia, he quit. Hes out. Done. And this is of course just five days after that same lawyer john dowd issued a bizarre call for the entire Mueller Probe to end. Now that rhetoric was a shift from ten months of public statements of cooperation from trumps team and all of this, lets be clear on the context and why this is not only more chaos, but real problems for america, this all comes amidst the pressure and the firings at the fbi, which experts say could actually add to any potential obstruction case against the white house. It was james comeys deputy fired in that bizarre friday night oaccurrence. That official was andrew mccabe, he says that firing friday night was pay back for what he saw as obstruction in the russian probe. And it all comes as trump shifts from these carefully crafted positive statements about bob mueller, to now openly criticizing him. Part of my job is to tell you when something is happening. Something is happening. Tonights shakeup tells us that donald trump was wrong about his legal team. Just eight days ago he wrote that he was happy with his team and any reports of a shakeup were off base. John dowd, doing a great job. Now dowds out. What happens when something happens to the criminal defense team around a sitting president . I can tell you one thing, more power could shift to Donald Trumps new lawyer, joe degenava. Hes been pounding a new Conspiracy Theory that the fbi had a secret plot to frame donald trump for the election, ma than represents the president now. The power could also go to his old lawyer, trump telling nbc that trump wants to rehire the combative civil attorney who was cut from the teams as trump kept adding more Civil Defense attorneys. Trump making moves that say he is at least unhappy about this russia probe. Is it his own teamor is it somethi something that his own team is telling him about where this investigation is heading . Lanny davis, former special counsel to president clinton. He also wrote the book the unmaking of the president 2016. How james comey cost Hillary Clinton the presidency. Im not sure where you stand on that election, but while its still an interesting book, i want to begin with the reason we thought to call you tonight and to be our expert to explain whats going on. Youve been in a room in the white house that very few people have been in where a president is facing an open probe by an independent counsel, where he has a range of lawyers saying a range of things. What do you make of john dowd quitting . First, i wasnt in the room, he had outside counsel, David Kendall who was actually his outside counsel during the investigation. After i left, the impeachment began, but in any case, i know exactly whats wrong in the trump white house, having been in the Clinton White house. That is the respect by the lawyers by president clinton was always unwavering and a steady team remained from the very beginning to the end. Loyalty and dedication in defense of president clinton, even after his public apology to the American People and his wife and family and friends regarding his personal indiscretions, he still kept the loyalty and dedication of his legal team. This particular president for reasons that are quite obvious to me is that hes abusive towards people and his lawyers wont accept the abusive treatment cant seem to keep a chief of staff much less a defense lawyer to be loyal and defend him. You think, lanny, this is important . You think that part of what were seeing reflects on the conduct of President Trump, that mr. Dowd is loyal, he took the fall over the infamous flynn tweet. He went up this weekend and called for the end of the Mueller Probe, but he did a lot of things, but what youre saying for him ultimately was too much. I think it was too much for him, for chiefs of staff, for members of his white house staff who are gone, for people that take five minutes to whisper into reporters ears that he congratulated a dictator in a rigged election, claiming the American People in our democracy was a rigged election, he literally has no one in the place that is loyal to him and not willing to turn against him or to quit. And that was the complete opposite to the loyalty to this very day that i feel that everyone i know who worked in the Clinton White house still feel towards president clinton. You have a lot of stark evidence for what you say, that different leadership inspires Different Levels of loyalty. Maya, lets look at the legal team, lets look at all the lawyers in the mix, you have ty cobb still there, some say hes on thin outside, john dowd hes out. Don mcgahn and mark cassowitz, don mcgahn, white House Counsel still there, still threatening to resign over the mueller dpfi. Upper right is jay sekulow, whos more known for criminal battles maya, what do you think about the center of gravity here . Well look at the chart that you have up here, and well look at what transpired, all of what we have come to expect from trumps presidency has become predictable. It was predictable that john dowd would leave, once you have another personality in the conspiracy theorists with degenava coming on. You think that john dowd left because of the the bringing on of a crack pot of conspiracy . I think this is what we saw in trumps weekend behavior, one is that he is becoming a bit unhinged by this investigation the closer gets to him. He saw the subpoena to the Trump Administration last week. And also his weekend behavior to attempt to go in a different direction and to some of lannys earlier points, with what we have come to see with how the president treats the people around him. I dont want to reiterate that, because lanny said it so well. Both of you stay with me, brian weis is a criminal attorney who knows his way around these issues. Lets talk about how joe degenava. A group of fbi and d ooj peoe were going to frame trump with a nonexistent crime. James comey threw the case against Hillary Clinton in conjunction with senior fbi officials, comey sold his soul to the devil. Brian, how do you read this shift in the legal strategy and does it look to you as other folks are telling me, on back ground or not for retribution, that theres going to be an escalation of this white house going after rosenstein and mueller. When you look at that bite we just heard, once upon a time lawyers out of law school knew that how you became a made guy or a made gal, you did a clerk ship with the doj and then you went to work for a private firm. You look at that chart that you so expertly threw up there and im looking for kevin durant, im looking for lebron james. And i dont i dont know about lebron, but ill leave it to you to judge other lawyers on that scale. But its two things, brian youre half right, you know youre never all right on this show, i think youre half right, because youre seeing the hiring of people that can basically help you to stay out of jail. We are seeing credible reports that other top lawyer who is arent on tv all the time, like ted olsen, who was a very good attorney saying no, im not getting on this team. To go back to the sports analogy, donald trump can fire the best free agents in the biz and theres a reason why theyre turning him down, and as maya says or as lanny says, i think its about client control, that john dowd is old school, this is a guy who came up prosecuting and trying rico cases. When donald trump was chasing models in studio 54. Its also about ego. I think its death by 1,000 tweets and the big picture is john dowd recognized there wasnt enough room for him in the green room. Lanny and then maya. I just want to get to the central word to joe degenava who i knew during the clinton years is not stating facts. Facts are going to be stubborn and donald trump can do whatever he wants to on twitter, and he cant escape the facts. And john doubt should listen carefully to joe degenava. Its all Conspiracy Theory and no facts. And no matter who defends, i can to tell you no matter who defends mr. Trump, ultimately he cant escape the facts and the facts dont look good for him. Not only can he not get the a ateam on his side, you cannot if im mueller, im theiri in thinking two things, one is i cant wait to sit down with you, because youre not taking your lawyers advice, which usually is a recipe for tripping yourself up in an interview like this. And maybe youre thinking you can outsmart me, which would be entirely big mistake, but the other thing is, what else should i be looking at, because if youve not decent competent lawyers who are telling you not to do certain things, and you do it anyway, it begs the question what else have they told him not to do as president and hes gone ahead and done them anyway. And brian weis, i understand youre a fan of the rapper big shaun, and he focuses on the enemy. Figure out what youve done and whats going on with you and not making mueller into the enemy. Except ari, this is a president whose term we have been over during the first commercial break and anywhere other administration and he continues to do what those who are somewhat smarter than he is have told him not to. And this is a situation he can fall back on all of those depositions that he sat through, and all of these civil cases thinking he got by and as the rapper would say, got over. But sitting for a deposition and sitting with the not screwing around team and muellers crew, is a delay in the major leagues. And thats what i think john dowd was trying to tell his client. Lanny, thats a fact, you said facts matter. Yes, i dont know the rap song or star that you just referred to, because im still listening to frank sinatra. And thats a valid choice. Maya harris, lanny davis, and brian weis on a big news night. Coming up, i interviewed the whistle blower who helped create these videos who warned that it might be breaking the law. They also warned that the company shouldnt be sending foreign citizens to run american campaigns and they completely disregarded it and i have the memo to prove it. Also investigators looking at our interview with the mystery man in the russia probe, he could be the back channel between wikileaks and roger stone. Roger stone moves around and says a lot of different things. Is he lying . Is he lying to save himselves . Roger has a selective memory right here. Youre watching the beat on msnbc. To central new york. And turning the airport into a firstclass transportation hub. All while growing urban areas into vibrant places to live and work. Across new york state, were building the new new york. To grow your business with us in new york state, visit esd. Ny. Gov. To grow your business with us in new york state, for all the noses that stuff up around daisies. For all the eyes that get itchy and watery near pugs. For all the people who sneeze around dust. 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Donald trumps personal attorney john dowd has told the daily beast this morning, that he hopes the Deputy Attorney general Rod Rosenstein will shut down the russian probe. It suggests in a bad way that the doj process and the president s criminal defense are together, and thats not my inferen inference, thats what john dowd said on the report. He was talking tough, but maybe it wasnt enough for donald trump. This was a guy who offered several things, one cooperation when that was the model. And then this recent attempt at a tougher line. He also has a reputation of the king of pardons. John dowd he said they were nitpicking financial statements. I have never seen a man put up with more petty crap in my life than this governor has. When you read that dowd may be gone because trump does want a tougher team. Keep in mind this former marine was a pretty tough legal fighter, with the court i with the press, no holds barred. He was zealous when he told the president what he thought. And he also would not be cowed bring celebrity in a case. Dowd was part of banning pete rose from baseball for gambling. Pete prose testimony from nine witnesses and checks for cash, allegedly linking rose to a bookie. And dowd defended his report before judge norbert nato. You think about that, you think about doubts special experience in pardons, even those preemptive pardons, maybe trump is no longer interested in that kind of expertise, or maybe tension s on this team left dow out. Dowd did try to play the trump way, he stayed out of the public eye, except for being caught there in that famous lunch. But he stayed off tv. When this tweet went out on Donald Trumps behalf, dowd took the fall for it, took the blame, because it suggested trump knew about a crime. And now we know in what was hiss last weekend on the job, dowd was following trumps newest legal strategy, issued a new we turn to Nick Ackerman, a Watergate Special prosecutor who has seen a white house under this kind of pressure. When you look at dowd, you have been known to be critical of the trump white house, you have to admit, this is an experienced criminal litigator . Yeah, i mean hes not some run of the mill lawyer who just happens to be there, he knows how its done. What do you think, given what i just went through is the real reason for him leaving. I think its pure frustration. How can you represent somebody that doesnt take your advice, that wont follow what you say . So you Nick Ackerman believe john dowds story . I think its absolutely true, the real lawyer for donald trump is donald trump. Its not any of these lawyers, these lawyers are window dressing. He has a use a lawyer to go into court in california to defend himself against stormy daniels. He cant go in himself. So he needs lawyers to deal with the special but youre reminding me, does the famous phrase a lawyer who represents himself has a reality show contestant a lawyer who represents himself has a reality show for a client, is that how it goes . A fool whos on a reality show, thats what youre trying to say. I dont understand how anybody in good faith could represent this individual. I mean if youre a lawyer and the person doesnt take your advice and youre basically being led around the nose by the client and the client is telling you what to do, what to say, thats not being a lawyer. Let me read, i mentioned the times, the Washington Post also has important light to be shared hoaere, doubt clashing wh the president in which he vehemently opposed a legal strategy. If not for any other wild story this week, the biggest substantive story would be the it being done not in daylight, but under the cover of a friday evening. And a person whos been a republican and a 20year Law Enforcement i was fired over james comeys firing and the russia probe. Walk us through how that links to the escalation on mueller right now . I think the weirdest thing as you pointed out was saturday, when dowd came up with this statement, trying to tie in the firing of mccabe as a reason why they should get rid of the Mueller Probe. I mean the logic there is totally baffling, and then on top of it, the whole statement had within it a couple of false statements about the fact that the investigation started because of the dossier, that was not true. Is. I think the two of them were standing together when he made that statement. In one moment he says it represents the statement of the president. Then he says it doesnt and then he says it does. The only way that someone like dowd would be going back and forth like that is if trump was basically pulling hiss strings, i think thats the problem here, thats 100 right. He will not follow any of his advice, and the person whos really in charge. When he went out to tweet about that whole statement about that data program they had with Cambridge Analytica. That whistle blower is actually my next guest. Ackerman, thank you for your analysis. The man behind the sting of trumps digital firm, the major revelation here, wes going to talk and respond to Mark Zuckerbergs apology. Also a lead democrat calling on zuckerberg to be subpoenaed, that senator joining us, and more from my interview from randy credco last night. And new questions for roger stone. Brads about to find out if his denture can cope with. A steak. Luckily for him, he uses super poligrip. It helps give him 65 more chewing power. Leaving brad to dig in and enjoy. Super poligrip. So allstate is giving us money back on our bill. Well, that seems fair. We didnt use it. Wish we got money back on gym memberships. Get money back hilarious. With claimfree rewards. Switching to allstate is worth it. 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This is humira at work. Breaking news. At this moment, we have confirmed at nbc that the National Security advisor h. R. Mcmaster and he will be replaced by john bolton. This is a new change to the National Security administration. I want to read here, Lieutenant General h. R. Mcmaster, the Battle Tested army officer tapped as President Trumps National Security advisor will resign and be replaced by john bolton. As i mentioned Peter Alexander from nbc news confirming this statement as well. Im pleased to announce that effective on april 9, ambassador john bolton will be my new National Security advisor. He adds, hes thankful for the service of general mcmaster. This is of course something that had been rumored. He also adds mcmaster has done an outstanding job, that will always remain my friend, there will be an official handover on april 9. This was one of the generals who reportedly had clashed with trump and reflects a continuation of a clear reshuffling that we have seen of this National Security team. You now have the chief diplomat out, you have the chief Economic Advisor gary cohn out, and trumps criminal defense attorney john dowd also out. This appears to others that donald trump is moving with the unbridled trump. John bolton is certainly considered a conservative and hard line voice with experience as a diplomat in the Bush Administration and also is known as a loud voice on fox news as well as informed policy in neo conservative circles. Certainly a big story breaking at this hour. Were going to stay on it and bring you the latest on it in the coming minutes, while also turning to the other big story we have and that we promised u you. Doctor th you have seen the video on your screen is there. Bob mueller probing the links meanwhile Mark Zuckerberg announcing that that firm is beg banned from facebook as his Company Loses 50 billion this year over the scandal. So that is a lot swirling around trump and his digital campaign. This has always been a digital investigation, how russia manipulated the web, how they hacked emails and h emails. Every story i just mentioned the wrapped up in Donald Trumps controversial data firm. And all because of these hidden videos, exposing the dirty tricks, the lying and from my estimation is one of the most explosive International Digital political scandals clearly since the 2016 election interference. When you see these new sting videos online, youre wondering who would pick this fight with such powerful people who specialize in dirty tricks and who are allies of President Trump. Theres one young man at the center of every story i just mentioned. He once worked for this trump firm cambridge, so he knows how this ceo operates, how this firm directed by steve bannon was run and this 28yearold basically risked his career to become a whistle blower, to expose what President Trumps digital firm was doing and he expose the information that just this week that got its ceo suspended, got zuckerberg to do this apology and got mueller to this is many man who cost facebook more than money than any other. And now is a crucial white house witness. So wiley is not just in the eye of this storm, hes in the eye of a storm of his own making. And before he goes facetoface with these secretive u. S. Investigators, it sure would be fascinating, probably useful for us all to hear more of his account in public and thats what were going to do right now, as he joins the beat from london. Im jo im joined by the Cambridge Analytica whistle blower, he was the founder of the company, he did leave in 2014. Thank you for joining me. Let me ask you, as you know, several trump aides including manafort and gates were indicted on the foreign lobbying laws here in the yooutUnited States. When you were with Cambridge Analytica, did you hear that any of its officers were warned that these activities might violate american law . Yep, absolutely. Rudy giulianis law firm actually sent us a memo to steve bannon, rebecca mers and alexander knicks that outlined the fact that in the United States you cannot run campaigns with foreign citizens who arent permanent residents and the company was warned that alexander knicks should recuse himself of substantive management duties in the company as ceo and they were also warned that the company shouldnt be sending foreign citizens to go and run american campaigns. And that advice was completely disregarded. Youre saying you know during i want to make sure i have this right, because youre making a quite an explosive allegation. Rude eye jewy juliagiuliani war campaign. Giulianis law firm. They completely disregarded it. I gave. This has rocked facebook to its core. They lost at least 50 billion this week. And i want to announce the suspended ceo, who worked on the Trump Campaign alexander knicks on this video. Im a master of disguise. Yes. They gave a large amount of money to the candidate to fj finance his campaign in exchange for land. So on facebook or youtube or Something Like this . Lots of history. The offer of those kind of dirty tricks, was that an extreme exception of what cambridge did or was that business as usual . No, that was completely normal. You know, if you take a look at some of carols recent reporting in the guardian about the nigeria hacking scandal thats come out where this Company Received hacked material from israeli private intelligence and used it to create they are willing to go to extreme lengths to do what it takes to win for their client, even if that is n unlawful. Steve bannon and others in the company did they know that this was ill will legal . They had an obligation and a duty as officers of the company to keep track of what the company was doing and they failed in that. When you look at that video thats been so explosive, how did it come about . When i started working with the guardian, one of the things that we thought would be useful is to see what the company is currently doing. So we approached channel 4 and channel 4 agreed to work with us to collaborate on setting up an undercover filming to see if they were still working in the same kind of unethical manner that i saw when i was there. So you helped set up the sting video . Yep. Christopher, i got to ask you, youre going after people who look pretty important, linked to the trump presidency, linked to all of these operations, were you ever scared becoming a whistle blower and setting up these sting videos . Its incredibly intimidating, im not going to lie, its incredibly intimidating to have an entire media storm circle you, have everybody digging through every past text message youve sent, everything youve said online at one point or another and to go up against, you know, a well funded company, backed by a billionaire, should go up against steve bannon, to go up against the alt right. Its intimidating. Breitbart broke their silence and said they dont want any morecam Cambridge Analytica on facebook. This feels like general attempts to fix the issue. It was only a week ago that facebook threatened to sue the guardian over using the word breach. The Company Still has is ignoring my office to sit down with the regulators. They continue to stand by their statement, where they want to access my personal devices and act as if they are the police, as if they are the state, despite the fact that i am working with the legitimate Legal Authority in this country to investigate this issue. Ive been the one that has brought this issue to public attention. Im the one that has proactively worked with the legal authorities here in the uk to investigate this for months. Its only now that facebook is playing catch up, despite the fact that they have known about this for three years. Let me play one more clip of zuckerberg talking about what responsibility he has to users. Here is new Mark Zuckerberg. We have a basic responsibility to protect peoples data and if we cant do that, then we dont question ser deserve to have the student to serve people. Based on your dealings from cambridge to facebook, what grave would you give him in their meeting that duty . They havent done anything. What else can i say than a failure . This has been a catastrophic failure. They could have pro actively as i have worked with the regulators and the legal authorities in this country and in the United States and elsewhere to address some really serious issues that this Cambridge Analytica story really raises about the integrity of their system and the security of their system and more broadly how it impacts the democracy in the United States and elsewhere. But the proof is in the pudding, right . Lets actually see what the company is actually going to do. Christopher wiley, you have clearly had a big impact already around the world and the story is just getting started. And as you outlined, you have taken some personal risk. I really appreciate you taking the time to come on the beat and explain your thinking and what you know. Cheers, thank you for having me. And we turn now back to the breaking news, President Trump making another big change to his National Security team, h. R. Mcmaster out, john bolton in. Mcmaster had clashed with the president over policy issues, over statements about russia, over the direction of the Foreign Policy of the United States. John bolton known as a hard liner with experience in the Bush Administration. Bolton had led a super pac that spent over a Million Dollars with that firm. An International News connection that may or may not have been fully digested at this point. Because of this breaking news, i want to turn immediately to u. S. Senator richard blumenthal, a democrat from connecticut, your view of this change, sir . As important as the change, ari s the way it was made, lack of explanation and indication of continuing churn and chaos and deep division in this white house. And the lack of any clear direction from the president on policy. Youre absolutely right, john bolton is known as a hard liner, clearly different than others in the administration now on the iran agreement, for example, and it points to danger signals. I want to read from the statement again, this is breaking right now, mcmaster saying after 34 years of service, i requested this retirement from the u. S. Army, because he was still enlisted, effective this summer from which ill leave Public Service and serve with civilians in the u. S. Government. General john kelly, who also among these chaos and shakeup stories has been rumored has an on paper here written statement calli ining mcmaster a fine american. And in background information, we are finding us that this was mutual, this was arranged. I dont mean to pour cold water on that, its my job to tell you what the white house is saying, Sarah Huckabee sanders detailed just about a week raghida, i spoke to the president and contrary to reports that h. R. Mcmaster and the president have a very good relationship. This is yet another denial or attack on reporting that ultimately has proved inoperative. To put aside attacks on the media, the fact of the matter is there are fewer even headed and balanced mature judgment individuals in this administration. There are more of the hard liners, use your term, and that augers very badly for the kind of balance and maturity thats needed when critical Foreign Policy judgment involving war or peace, here we have a seasoned general who is going to be leaving when his kind of insight and experience about the realities of war are so much needed. What is your view of bolton taking on this role . Because while he does have Foreign Policy experience, he is not simply an analyst, hes also someone that the president reportedly noticed from his hard hitting appearances on fox news. He is someone that has clashed with other what you might call traditional Foreign Policy republicans. What does it tell you that tonight were watching the president scramble his legal team, moving into a more aggressive posture against the doj, and moving it towards what could be a more aggressive posture towards the world. John bolton has been not only a critic of foreign might regar rational and reasonable, but also has drawn a fairly hard line on the special counsels investigation. Adopting the president s dismissive and in some cases very oppositional views. And so again, it indicates that the white house is circling the wagons, feeling a threat from this special counsel investigation, the change in counsel and the chaos and churn there reflect the same kind of confusion and chaos and remember also the role of this job has been classically to be an honest broker, someone who tries to take the views of different agencies and present them to the president in an even handed way, john bolton is unlikely to be that kind of honest broker of views and positions. Well you just made such a key historical point which is the National Security act, the reorganization of these positions after world war ii is designed to have, as you say, a factual arbiter between the generals and everyone else. So bolton is not just coming in to play a role in the security team, hes coming in to be that person, that condi rice style person. And there are those who question whether hes the right person for that job. Would you be willing to stay with my breaking coverage as my expert . This is all happening live. Sure. Ron nearing worked for senator ted cruzs president ial campaign in 2016 and has an eye on many of these issues and were also joined by phone, by my colleague, colonel jack jacobs, as an msnbc military analyst. Im going to ask colonel jacobs to ask him what this means and go right out to kristen for the reporting. What was really surprising in the first instance because that h. R. Mcmaster was picked in the beginning. I think everybody expected john bolton to be the National Security adviser a year ago. The thing about mcmaster, of course, is that he couldnt just quit. Not a very comfortable position for him, because hes a serving general officer and the only way he could leave is to retire, which he preferred not to do. They were looking for three star and four jobs for him, but couldnt find them anywhere. And i think there is some semblance of truth to the notion that he left by mutual consent. He is a very, very smart guy. Has a wide ranging view of National Security and National Security strategy. And his leaving the administration is actually going to be quite a loss. Kristen . Well, ari, i can tell you this has been in the works for quite some time, in fact msnbc news was the first to report that we did expect h. R. Mcmaster to leave by the end of this month. So that is what is happening. We have tracked this relationship hes had with the president which at times have been rocky. There have been disagreements privately over the iran nuclear deal, for example, hes one of the people who was urging the president not to rip up the deal. And some of those did bubble up into public. Youll recall he was in munich and he talked about the fact that there was no doubt that russia meddled in the u. S. Election, that drew a very sharp rebuke from the president , who took to twitter, who said he left out the fact that there was no finding that it actually influenced the results of the election. So that was the difference that really bubbled up into the public and underscored the fact that these two men had some significant differences. And this comes ahead of President Trump who is preparing to have talks with north koreas leader, which general m taken a against north korea. One of the people who said all options are on the Table Including a military option. So hell expressed real concerns about that potential meeting. And look, the president has said he wants his team in place as he prepares for that allimportant significant meeting. So this is something that, again, has been in the works, but it does, ari, to one of the points you raye e raised, john has agreed with him on a whole bunch of issues. Who are the voices who will stand up and debate him . A big question mark around that right now, ari. Thats a Perfect Point to go to ron on, who is a more conservative view of all of this, and yet i wonder what you think from a policy process, not whether everything john boltons ever said is perfect, but do you see him as the right demeanor and format for this important post at a time where the president is clearly under criticism from his own aides who leaked, you know, the way he congratulated putin for a rigged election and also declined to address the poisoning of someone on u. K. s soil. Mcmaster, in his own way, at least at times, was a mild anecdote to some of those concerns. Well, i spent a lot of time with ambassador bolton over the years. Many, many times, ive had oneonone conversations with him discussing a wide variety of Foreign Policy issues. And i found it to be an extremely reasonable, thoughtful and obviously wellexperienced individual. Does he have clear views in terms of various issues, especially concerning nuclear and other weapons of mass destruction nonproliferation . Absolutely. He was responsible for that at the state department and then carried that forward as president bushs ambassador on behalf of the United States at the united nations. Contrary to some of the things im hearing here, my oneonone time with him, i found it to be extremely thoughtful and someone who will serve the president very, very well. Some people call him a hardliner, i call him realistic. Someone who was there to see firsthand north korea, for example, cheating on their commitments that they made. We have a we had a nuclear deal with north korea, they now have nuclear weapons. That nuclear deal, which the Clinton Administration forged, had no impact in terms of preventing them from obtaining nuclear weapons. Well take the realism toward iran, right now, which is a critical issue. Senator blumenthal, i wonder if we can widen the lens. For folks covering the breaking coverage, the story breaking literally in the last few minutes was the longrumored change, the president getting rid of h. R. Mcmaster, the National Security adviser, putting in john bolton, a very conservative Foreign Policy figure, even called a neoconservative. I wonder if we can widen the lens to what is happening with the president writ large. Because the accounts in the New York Times and elsewhere are of a man who has tried it their way for a year and now wants to go his own way, wants to be unbridled, wanted to put his own team in. So what everyone thinks of the first year of presidency, that reflects more changes afoot for the person who is a constitutional commander in chief and has the lawful powers. And raises a question of, do you think were seeing the true, deeper trump, whatever that may mean, and people are more conservative to the far right of the republican partys mainstream . We are seeing more of the true trump for sure because he is gradually winnowing the opposing viewpoints that come to him. And whatever your agreements or disagreements on policy, the idea of diverse points of view coming to the president , the devils advocate, who will play the part of a responsible critic is very, very useful in the white house. The buck stops on the president s desk. But he should be welcoming a mcmaster who disagrees with him rather than, in effect, shielding himself from that uncomfortable or inconvenient truth. And it sometimes is truth even when it is disagreeable. And so, however you characterize john bolton, hes much more of trumps view. He comes with an agenda. He is not going to be the neutral arbitor or honest broker as far as history would indicate in any event. And that has been traditionally one of the vital functions of the National Security adviser. Stay with me, i want to bring in sam cedar at the table with me. On a part of this that really cant be ignored, and i dont say it with any shade or automatic negativity, its just part of the facts of the current cabinet of the United States. And this is from nbc news tabulation, john bolton is, at this hour, technically still a fox news contributor. So is joe degeneva, ousting someone with a lot of criminal experience. K. T. Mcfarland was the nbc contributor. And the press secretary at the state department heather nourt was from fox news. You have studied conservative vehicle co media and politics, what do you have to say about Michael Bolton . Hes over at fox news, im sure sean hannity wants a lot of his friends over there. You can start to see a lot of Sean Hannitys verbiage when Donald Trump Tweets out. But i want to push back on your previous guests characterization of john bolton. This is a man who was too radical for a Republicancontrolled Senate in 2005 to be ambassador to the u. N. A lower position than in. A lower position, far less involved in Foreign Policy. Hes a hardcore neoconservati neoconservative. He was part of the project for new american century, exclusively neocon. The iraq war is something as a political matter ran against. Pointedly against. He talked about george bush often in terms of jeb bush and in terms of that iraq war. This is an incredible departure from his pretense during the campaign. But its a radical departure from u. S. Foreign policy over decades. Even, even under the Bush Administration. And people tend to forget, in 2005, for george bush not to get his way in the wake of 9 11, which still had a lot of impact on National Security issues, john bolton is at the extreme of the extreme when it comes to neoconservative Foreign Policy. And this is going to have incredibly grave implications for the iran deal, for our involvement in syria. I mean, this is this is incredibly alarming. And this is not to post that needs Senate Confirmation. And senator blumenthal, when you look at that aspect of this, same cedar raising a point that relates to the constitutional nature of your body, the senates role. As you know, the senate does not exercise a confirmation of National Security post. And sam reminds us that this is something bolton could couldnt get through. Your view of whether that was part of the plan here because this is one post that he doesnt have to go through the senate on. And frankly, its the same concern we raised with Michael Flynn before he was charged and before he pleaded guilty. Because of conflicts of interest. I think there are going to be question ises of conflict of interest raised about john bolton. He was the leader of the pack that contributed to Cambridge Analytica. Hes not only a hardliner when it comes to Foreign Policy, hes clearly a trump acolite. And he has invested, maybe not personally, but hes supported people who have invested in these farright fringe groups. And senator, im going to interrupt you to get you on the record for what was just handed me in the newsroom. I didnt know this was going to be handed to me when i started probing these issues, but im reading from fox news, it says, breaking, ambassador john bolton joins fox news on the story exclusive interview with the incoming National Security director. Well, i will be interested in what he has to say. But to go to your previous question, this issue raises the question of whether perhaps there should be Senate Confirmation for the National Security adviser. Because it has become such a profoundly important post and possibly with policymaking implications. And i think thats an interesting point to pause on, reflect on, the breaking news this hour, the president shaking up his team in yet another department, perhaps wiping off the attention on the exit of his russia lawyer to replace h. R. Mcmaster. If youre keeping score at home, this is Donald Trumps third National Security adviser. The first pleading guilty to a felony in the russia probe. The second, an enlisted member of the military, who is now retiring. And the third, this fox news commentator, john bolton, who before entering the white house, before apparently going to speak in public, will speak at his employer, fox news, shortly. That is the news tonight. This is all real life. I want to thank my panelists, my reporter, my esteemed colleagues and the senator. Thank you all for being part of the breaking News Coverage that continues right now on hardball. War footing. Lets play hardball. Good evening. Im Chris Matthews in washington with breaking news from the white house that could have major National Security implications. President trump announced general h. R. Mcmaster is leaving his role as National Security adviser. Hes out. He will be replaced by john bolton, former u. S. Ambassador to the united nations. What that means for the direction of the countrys National Security policy is clear. Mcmasters was a moderating force in the white house who urged the president not to