Transcripts For MSNBCW The 11th Hour With Brian Williams 20200216

All of it as this valentines Night Edition of the 11th hour gets under way. Well, good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. Day 1,121 of the trump administration. That leaves 263 days to go until the 2020 election. Two other quick numbers here tonight. The president is at maralago for the 29th time as president. His 175th day there as president. Back home in washington, another fairly explosive day at the usually quiet Justice Department. And a second straight day of completely mixed signals including what appears to be a slowrolling campaign to seize increasing amounts of control over politically charged cases, and they are numerous. The New York Times was the first to report that trumps a. G. , bill barr, has tapped an outside prosecutor to, quote, scrutinize the criminal case against President Trumps former National Security adviser michael flynn. Barr has also installed a handful of outside prosecutors broadly reviewing the handling of other politically sensitive National Security cases. They go on to say, over the past two weeks, the outside prosecutors have begun grilling line prosecutors in the d. C. Office about various cases. Well, you may recall that flynn has pleaded guilty to lying to the fbi during special counsel muellers investigation of ties between the Trump Campaign and russia and all those contacts. Earlier tonight our senior washington correspondent Andrea Mitchell explained to the audience why a review of this case is raising concerns. This sets off all sorts of political alarms. First, former fbi Officials Say if there are concerns they should call in the inspector general, not a prosecutor. Second, flynn now wants to withdraw his guilty plea saying the fbi surprised him. But former prosecutors say being surprised is no excuse for lying to the fbi. Thats a crime. Third, as with roger stone, the Justice Department overruled the prosecutors last month, reducing flynns proposed sentence from six months to probation. No jail time. This raises suspicions that the president has Sole Authority over pardons, he might be trying to make a case for a pardon for flynn. As that unfolds, the Washington Post is reporting the feds in new york, the office we call the Southern District of new york, has taken new steps into the investigation of the man who once ran the Southern District of new york, rudy giuliani. Those new steps include apparently evidence and witnesses potentially against rudy. Even as the main Justice Department in washington reported days ago with a straight face theyve set up a mechanism to receive private citizen giulianis information that he has gathered in ukraine. Also tonight the Justice Department has now dropped its case against former fbi Deputy Director Andrew Mccabe, who was accused of lying to investigators about a leak to the media. The u. S. Attorneys office in washington informed mccabes attorneys, quote, the government has decided not to pursue criminal charges. We consider the matter closed. Mccabe opened a counterintelligence investigation into trump in 2017 after the president fired comey. That launched the russia inquiry. That also put mccabe and the fbi in the president s crosshairs, and mccabe has been trolled, threatened, and attacked ever since. They should be looking at all these fbi guys who got fired and demoted. I think hes a sick guy personally. Andrew mccabe, hes a bad guy. Andrew mccabe has made a fool out of himself. Hes a i think hes a disaster, and what he was trying to do is terrible, and he was caught. All of this is taking place while the president appears to be asserting his growing control over federal Law Enforcement. And as attorney general barr is speaking out about trumps habit of weighing in on all things Justice Department. Yesterday, barr said trumps twitter habit was making it impossible for him to do his job. Hours later, the president tweeted about barr. Quote, the president has never asked me to do anything in a critical case. A. G. Barr. This does not mean i do not have, as president , the legal right to do so. I do but have so far chosen not to. Barr, who marks one year on the job, is under fire for his decision to reverse a sentencing recommendation for convicted trump ally roger stone. The decision was announced shortly after the president criticized the recommended federal sentence of seven to nine years. Tonight the Washington Post reports roger stone has requested a new trial a day after trump accused the jury forewoman of bias. Interestingly, barr tells abc news he was all for stones prosecution. I supported it. I think it was established he was convicted of obstructing congress and witness tampering, and i thought that was a righteous prosecution, and i was happy that he was convicted. Nonetheless, there are now at least Nine Senate Democrats calling on barr to resign. Theyre accusing him of lying to congress when, during his confirmation hearing, he pledged to keep the Law Enforcement process free from political influence. One former federal prosecutor and u. S. Attorney who we have come to know says based on the past 24 hours, it is time for the a. G. To step down from office. If youre bill barr and if youve gone on record telling the president to stop tweeting, and if you really believe in the independence of the Justice Department, which barr has at least gone on record as saying he believes in, then when the president s response is to tweet and say hell meddle in criminal cases whenever he damn well pleases, your only move is to resign. Here for our leadoff discussion on this busy friday night, susan page, Washington Bureau chief for usa today, bestselling author who is now at work on a biography of House Speaker nancy pelosi. Traveling with the president in the great state of florida, philip rucker, pulitzer prizewinning White House Bureau chief for the Washington Post, coauthor along with his post colleague Carol Leonnig of the New York Times bestselling book a very stable genius. And josh gerstein, Senior Legal Affairs contributor for politico. Good evening and welcome to you all. Susan, what do you think the attorney general is up to, and do you remember a time, though we were too young when the president appointed his own brother who had never tried a case in court, when the assumption about doj was they were going to straightup endeavor to do the right thing in all cases . Yeah. I mean there have been times in the past during the nixon administration, as you say in the kennedy administrations, but not in my time in washington have we seen a situation like this, where the president is asserting his right to meddle in any criminal cases that he wishes to do so and that we have an attorney general that seems to be publicly, if you take him at his word, publicly pleading with the president to stop weighing in on twitter on the Justice Department issues. There are all these mixed messages coming out of the Justice Department these days. I guess it depends on whether you think bill barr is sincere when he says hes trying to keep things from being too politicized or if you take a more cynical view that hes trying to calm a storm in his own building with career prosecutors. Josh, that brings us to your beat. It was just tuesday the four feds walked off the case, choosing to walk off the case because, again, they cant put out statements and call press conferences. This is their form of protest and warning. Then yesterday the interview that susan was referencing. People wanting to take an attorney general at his word, becoming the first sitting cabinet member to criticize the boss. What is going on inside the department of justice based on your reporting . Well, brian, the atmosphere and the uproar is something that ive really only seen on a couple prior occasions during President Trumps term in office. One would be the atmosphere, the feelings surrounding the firing of fbi director james comey. And the other would be on a couple days when it looked like rod rosenstein, the Deputy Attorney general who appointed special counsel robert mueller, was about to be fired by the president. In fact, one day when he was in a car and we were told he was expecting to be asked for his resignation when he arrived at the white house. But i think this is even more severe, more pervasive, and a bigger problem because it really has infected the line prosecutors, the frontline people, the investigators who do the day to day work of the Justice Department. As disturbing as some of those other events were, youre really talking about reshuffling the leadership of the Justice Department, and here after you had those four prosecutors withdraw from the roger stone case and one of them quit the government altogether, it became clear that this has infected things all the way down to the ground level, to the nittygritty place where the rubber meets the road. And i think thats why you saw the attorney general come out yesterday and make the statements that he did because it became a crisis of confidence in him and the department as a whole. Phil rucker is no dummy. We note that traveling with the president means in this case you at least get a weekend in florida. So, phil, whats the viewpoint of those around this president traveling with the president just like yourself . Well, brian, there is so much swirling over the last few days involving the president and the department of justice, but one thing that is sure to get the president s attention and perhaps stoke his wrath is the ending essentially of this investigation for andy mccabe, the decision by the Justice Department announced today not to file any charges for the former deputy fbi director. Mccabe has been enemy number one or two for trump now for more than a year. The president has firmly believed and has said so publicly that he thinks mccabe should have been charged. He surely is not pleased with this decision. My colleagues at the Washington Post reported that earlier today when that news was announced, the white house did not have a headsup and there was an effort under way inside the oval office at the white house to calm the president , to control him, to urge him not to speak out about mccabe. Pat cipollone, the white house counsel, rushed in to try to talk to the president right away about this mccabe decision. Well see what the morning brings in terms of tweets from the president , but i am sure he is none too pleased with the outcome here. Josh, for the charges the feds nicked roger stone on, correct me if im wrong, the max is like 20 years if they wanted to throw the book at him. In this case, they did what they always do. They looked at federal sentencing guidelines. They came back with an answer of a recommended sentence, seven to nine years. The president tweets, calls it a miscarriage of justice. Bill barr, again with a straight face, says, yeah, i got involved. I took a look at it. Here is Andrew Weissmann on how rare it would be for a sitting attorney general to do just what he did. The attorney general does not review sentencing submissions. That never happens. Everybody in the department knows that. To make it sound like he did, which is, this is kind of a normal thing that i review them no. He reviewed them in connection with two rich, white men who are connected to the president. That is the only two. I would love to hear from the attorney general who else has he done this for. Josh, first of all, thats saying a lot. Second, this Cabinet Agency you cover is easily the most processdriven and ideally the most rigordriven branch of the government. Right, brian. I think it could be up to 50 years that roger stone in theory could be sentenced to. But the thing thats really troubling and what i would pick up from what Andy Weissmann said, the Justice Department has gone out of its way to say they thought the prior administration, the Obama Administration had been too lenient with criminals, particularly folks involved with drugs and that folks should have been receiving guideline sentences, meaning whatever the sentencing guidelines require. You shouldnt deviate. You shouldnt depart downward because they had a difficult upbringing. You should insist on those in almost every case. So to come in a case involving the president s longtime confidant and say, well, in this case, you know, we think maybe the sentencing guidelines are a little too much, its just an extraordinary departure from the public rhetoric of this administration. I think bill barr on tuesday was out giving a speech to sheriffs where he said, we need to be super tough on criminals and why, you know, the people of interest to the president are getting a special break is something thats going to be very tough to explain. Phil rucker, in a normal west wing, in a normal political shop, the domestic policy adviser may come up with policy initiatives to pivot off of postimpeachment for a president. Is there any such mechanism, any such plan in the west wing you cover . I mean, brian, if there is, ive not heard of it. What we see in this west wing and its what weve seen for three years now is a constant churn from crisis to crisis and a president scrambling every day for survival. He is fixated on the news cycles. Hes fixated this week on whats happening at the department of justice. If theres a broad domestic legislative agenda under way, you know, the American People dont really know about it. And the president is doing very little to promote that. He is, we should point out, going to be in Daytona Beach over the weekend at the daytona 500. There are some reports that he may even take the motorcade on a lap of the racetrack, so hes fixated on Campaign Events like that and trying to promote his image more so, i would say, than legislating at this point. It was Ronald Reagan who first learned to make the most politically of the daytona 500. Susan page, youre one of full closudisclosure, youre on two susans we read regularly around here. The other is susan glasser. I quote from her to get your reaction. Although the president himself is unchanged, the context around him is very much altered. In the history of the trump presidency, there will be a before impeachment and an after. Your view of that . Oh, yes. I think so. There had been some speculation about what would be the effect of the impeachment process. We were sure that President Trump was going to be acquitted by the senate, but what would be the effect on him . And there were some including Susan Collins who suggested he might be chastened, that he might have learned a lesson. That has clearly not been the case. President trump has clearly been emboldened in the past week since he was acquitted by the senate. We see that every day. We see that in his tweets. We see it in what hes doing now in these criminal cases. I think well continue to see that. Do you think roger stone is going to spend a day in jail between the Justice Departments actions and the president ial pardon . I would be if i had a farm, i would not bet it on the idea that roger stone will actually spend a night in jail. Josh, let me give you 30 seconds on this because this judge is now in a tough spot, and the chief judge yesterday put out a statement kind of covering her employees, saying this office is not affected by outside pressures. Right. And remember this sentencing, unless its deferred for some reason, is now basically less than a week away. Its next thursday its supposed to take place. So the notion that this story will drop out of the headlines because the president s going to Campaign Rallies or something is just not going to happen, and there are so many little wheels spinning here in terms of the reviews that barr has started in the flynn case and in other cases, that its just hard to see this going away. I think that amy berman jackson, the judge, will probably give a fairly stiff sentence to roger stone. She didnt seem to care for his behavior very much at all. So i think hes looking at a tough time, but like susan says, he may get a pardon very quickly after that. Yeah, the prospect of pardons just put everything into question. To susan page, to philip rucker, to josh gerstein, our thanks for joining us after the week weve all had late on a friday night. Coming up, a closer look at the decision to clear Andrew Mccabe, a case one federal judge says was run like an inquiry in a Banana Republic. And later, what happens in vegas and nevada has a whole may reshape the democratic race in its own way yet again. We have a preview for you tonight when we continue as the 11th hour is just Getting Started on this friday evening. As a struggling actor, i need all the breaks that i can get. At liberty butchumal cut. Liberty biberty cut. Well dub it. Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Can you help keep these iguys protected online . . Easy, connect to the xfi gateway. What about internet speeds that keep up with my gaming . Lets hook you up with the Fastest Internet from xfinity. What about wireless data options for the family . Of course, you can customize and save. Can you save me from this conversation . That we cant do, but come in and see what we can do. Were here to make life simple. Easy. Awesome. Ask. Shop. Discover. At your local xfinity store today. I. G. Referrals to u. S. Attorneys offices are handled many times a year and very quickly. Typically theyre declined before the ink is dry on the i. G. s report. This one they decided to spend two years thinking about. Im sure a lot of that time was spent thinking about how frustrated the president would likely be when they came to the inevitable conclusion that there was no case here, but thats just a theory on my part. There were some Court Transcripts released just today from a freedom of information act lawsuit. Its how we learn a lot of what we learn about this government. And those transcripts reveal what one federal judge thought about trumps effect on Andrew Mccabes case. This judge happened to be appointed to the federal bench by bush 43, and he warned prosecutors back in september that whatever decision they made on charging mccabe would be tainted by the president s comments on Andrew Mccabe. In a closeddoor meeting with prosecutors, the judge said, the public is listening to whats going on, and i dont think people like the fact that you got somebody at the top basically trying to dictate whether somebody should be prosecuted. I think its a Banana Republic when we go down that road. Back with us tonight is frank figliuzzi, a former fbi assistant director for counterintelligence. Frank, you said, i think on this broadcast and i think about a week ago, that it was time for the doj to put up or shut up. They have chosen the latter. What do you make of this decision, and can Andrew Mccabe go back to living his life . Oh, he andy wont be able to live a life as he previously knew it. You cant do that when youve been subject to this kind of witch hunt and hoax for two years and your familys been subjected to it. I use the terms witch hunt and hoax deliberately because as you know, brian, the president has been claiming that he and his associates have been victims of a witch hunt and hoax. But heres the difference. In the witch hunt and hoax against Andrew Mccabe, theres no charges to bring. Theres no criminality there. In the alleged witch hunt and hoax against the president and people like manafort and flynn, stone, we have an impeachment. We have convictions. We have two dozen russians indicted. Thats the difference. Theres nothing to bring when it comes to andy mccabe. When you hear the reporting out of the white house, we talked about it on this broadcast last night, that the president is tired of finding never trumpers throughout this government he has inherited and partially staffed. And its a whiff of kind of loyalty test as they go through the payroll. When you hear that, what are your thoughts regarding your beloved former bureau . Yeah, its so important for americans to understand that the only thing that department of justice and fbi employees are loyal to is the constitution and the oath they took when they signed on to the job. So, you know, the president can continue to assert that there needs to be some loyalty to him or that people are partisan. He just doesnt get it. Thats not why you sign up for the fbi or the department of justice. You sign up because youre all about the rule of law. And the sooner the president can figure that out, the better off we all will be. Skeptics in the audience looked at a. G. Barrs remarks in the abc news interview, especially skeptics in the audience who are adept at surviving office politics, lets say, and they came up with a scenario in their minds that barr went to the boss and said, i got to kick you around a little bit in an interview because i just have to because of this roger stone case, et al. What was your take as also a veteran of figuring out Interpersonal Communications . Yeah, im one of those skeptics on this abc interview, brian. Look, the attorney general has been disingenuous with us. I think he speaks with forked tongue, and heres why. You laid it out earlier. There was a freedom of information act request that was about to expose a federal judge, saying, hey, this thing stinks to high heaven. You better bring charges on mccabe or move on because this looks like a Banana Republic. And then, boom, all of a sudden after four resignations at doj, we get barr pushing back on tweets by the president. And then we find out, brian we find out today theres been secret use of u. S. Attorneys, handpicked by this attorney general, to continue to investigate who . Mccabe, comey, pete strzok, all around the interview of mike flynn and the flynn investigation. So people who think barr has changed his stripes need to understand that simply hasnt happened. Frank figliuzzi, thank you as always for joining us on the broadcast, frank, and explaining all of this to us. And coming up for us, were a week out from the nevada caucuses. We have new numbers tonight from the place where numbers are king, where fortunes are won and lost every day. A rare new political poll in a state thats often very hard to figure out politically. Yes yes. Yes. Yeah sure. Yes yes. Yeah, yeah no problem. Yes. Yes, yes a thousand times yes discover. Accepted at over 95 of places in the u. S. Hey there im lonnie from lonnies lumber. If you need lumber wood, lonnies is better than good. We got oak, cherry, walnut, and more. And we also have the best selection of plywood clattering in the state. Hey highpitched laughter man dang woodchucks wood clattering stop chuckin that wood with geico, the savings keep on going. Just like this sequel. 15 minutes could save you 15 or more on Car Insurance. crowd noise arella stick bell rings when heartburn hits. Fight back fast. With tums chewy bites. Beat heartburn fast. Tums chewy bites. Youve been hearing a lot about 5g. But theres 5g. And then theres verizon 5g. Were building the most powerful 5g experience for america. Its more than 10x faster than some other 5g networks. And its rolling out in cities across the country so people can experience speeds that ultra wideband can deliver. 1. 7 gigs here in houston. 1. 8 gigs here in frigid omaha. Almost 2 gigs here in los angeles. Thats outrageous its like an eightlane highway compared to a twolane dirt road. Early voting begins for nevadas Democratic Caucus just a few hours from now. Voters there have until tuesday to submit paper ballots before the actual caucuses get under way next saturday. And wait till you hear the story of how theyre going to be organized. A new telephone opinion poll of nevada likely caucusgoers has senator Bernie Sanders still leading the pack. Former v. P. Joe biden second. Other democratic contenders are neck and neck well within the margin of error its been pointed out. Back with us tonight is our friend jonathan allen, nbc news senior political analyst, and our friend errin hayes, veteran of the a. P. , the Washington Post, the los angeles times. She is now editor at large for the 19th, a nonprofit, nonpartisan newsroom focused on gender, politics, and policy that launches this summer. Errin, its great to see you. Jon, its great to see you. Jon, since youre here in new york, home field advantage. You wrote recently, sanders is winning ugly. What on earth did you mean by that, my friend jon . Well, we saw the first two contests. He got the most popular votes in iowa. He got the most popular votes and a tie for delegates in new hampshire. And in both cases he got about 25 of the vote. He got wins, you know, in terms of the popular vote, but hes not really getting a huge win there, and particularly in new hampshire, he basically won because Amy Klobuchar was able to do well enough in third place to stop Pete Buttigieg from getting past Bernie Sanders. If sanders wants to win the democratic nomination, hes going to have to do better than 25 wins. And the reason i say that is there are a lot of democrats in the party, the establishment that is lined up and wants to prevent him from being the nominee. In fact, some democrats are so concerned about stopping him from taking over the party that it at times appears they are more concerned about that that winning the presidency. So in order to go into a convention and win, he cant go in as the leader with Something Like 25 of the delegates or 30 of delegates. Hes probably going to have to do better than that. Errin hanes, i hope you can see a monitor where you are. I want to put two sets of South Carolina numbers up from the latest polling there. This is opinion poll of South Carolina democrats going into their primary. You see one and two, biden, sanders. Next is africanamerican voters going into South Carolina. Biden, sanders, 3620. Errin, what do you make of the numbers, and do you believe that these numbers, even though reflected in the latest poll, are on the move . I think that they are definitely on the move, and what you are seeing in that Biden Sanders split with black voters, sanders finally starting to erode the black support that biden has had with black voters for much of this primary cycle, that seems to be generational from voters that im hearing from on the ground in South Carolina. You have older black women who are really pretty still solidly with the former Vice President , and frankly he is making the case to them, if you can get me out of this state, i will deliver for you. And i think that they trust him, and i think they believe him. So theyre ready to work for him in terms of getting that Ground Organization that hes going to need to frankly finish first, which im hearing from his campaign a lot that he needs to have a strong, if not first place finish in South Carolina. Bernie sanders is somebody that younger black voters, especially younger black women that im hearing from, are open to his candidacy. Hes got the best ground game from what i understand in South Carolina right now. And that really marks a shift from 2016 when he didnt do as well with black and brown voters. That was a problem for him. Hillary clinton wasnt able to capitalize on those folks in states like South Carolina and super tuesday states. So to the extent that senator sanders has learned those lessons from 2016 and is building that Multiracial Coalition that he is going to need should he become the nominee, i think that South Carolina is really going to be the first test of that. And, errin, another quick question, steyer has been on the air in South Carolina for a long time. Of course now that we have two billionaires in this race, is steyer making any genuine inroads . Absolutely. A name that i do keep hearing come up is tom steyer in South Carolina, and that is because he has really been in that state up with radio ads locally. You see him everywhere on television both local and National Television in South Carolina, and so he is really working very hard to familiarize himself with voters in the state there. And what i hear is that effort feels much more like an investment than transactional, which is a word that i hear a lot when people talk about mayor Mike Bloomberg, for example, and the way in which he is using his money to influence this election, endorsements he has racked up, especially with plaque mayors, the columbia mayor, steve benjamin, was one of the early endorsers of mayor bloomberg, and the houston mayor just endorsed mayor bloomberg today. While some people suggest that mayor bloomberg is buying black leadership, for example, i think its also important to point out that these in a lot of cases are longstanding relationships that mayor bloomberg has with these black mayors in terms of giving money through his Philanthropic Organization to a lot of the cities they govern and a lot of cases stepping in where the federal government didnt to provide resources for those communities, but also training in terms of governance that has been very valuable. So, you know, i think that both mayor bloomberg and tom steyer, the inroads that theyre able to make with black voters is going to be tested pretty soon. Jon, did bloomberg have a good week or a bad week . I think he had a good week in that he was able to dominate a lot of News Coverage in a week where there was a primary that he didnt that he didnt participate in. I mean this was the shock and awe week of Mike Bloomberg jumping into the middle of a democratic primary without being on the ballot, without being on the debate stage, and suddenly finding himself in third place in National Polling after all these other people had been campaigning for there is that, yeah. But he is also now fending off, you know, a tremendous amount of bad press. He is defending himself against the stop and frisk policy and various other things. So a mixed week for Mike Bloomberg but obviously a positive in terms of dominating cora. Our thanks to two of our friends, our own jonathan allen, and to errin hanes, we wish you a lot of luck with the new gig. Thanks for coming on. Just ahead for us, how the president s tough talk and proposed defense spending is resurrecting fears that a couple of american generations have already lived through when we come back. burke at farmers insurance, weve seen almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything. Even a gold medal grizzly. sports announcer what an unlikely field in this final heat. burke not exactly a skinny dipper, but we covered it. At farmers, we know a thing or two because weve seen a thing or two. So get a quote at farmersdotcom. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum looking to repair dry, damaged hair without weighing it down . Try pantene daily moisture renewal conditioner. Its colorsafe formula uses smart conditioners to microtarget damage helping to repair hair without weighing it down. Try pantene. Its either the assucertification process. 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Upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. Tell your doctor about your medicines, and if youre pregnant or planning to be. Otezla. Show more of you. As parents of six, this network is one less thing i have to worry about. vo why the aceves family chose verizon. We all use our phones very differently. These two are always gaming and this one is always on facetime. And my oldest is learning to be a pilot. We need a Reliable Network because i need to know hes safe. As soon as he lands, he knows he better call mama. Mama vo the network more people rely on, gives you more. Like plans your family can mix and match starting at just 35. So everyone gets the plan they need. And apple music on us. Plus, iphone 11 on us when you buy the latest iphone. Thats verizon. North korea best not make any more threats to the united states. They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen. The president seems to have ditched his love affair with north korea at least for now. Yesterday the atlantic publish the its interview with former chief of staff john kelly from a College Event in newark who said trumps efforts to use personal diplomacy with kim jongun were futile. As kelly puts it, i never did think kim would do anything other than play us for a while, and he did that fairly effectively. But you wouldnt know it based on trumps selfdescribed expertise in nuclear arms control. In fact, the president has been touting this expertise on the issue since the 1980s. The man who at the age of 39 is not content with being new york citys latest real estate billionaire, donald trump has also ventured into gambling and professional football and says he could negotiate a Nuclear Disarmament treaty with the soviet union. The holy trinity, gambling, professional football, and nuclear arms disarmament. A story were about to hear from our next guest. Fred kaplan is back on the broadcast. National security columnist for slate. He happens to be the author of the new book the bomb president s, generals, and the secret history of nuclear war. While it is not necessarily germane to your work, please tell us the donald trump story. Oh, its very germane. He seriously lobbied to be george h. W. Bushs arms negotiator. Bush nominated richard bert, veteran diplomat. He runs into bert at a Cocktail Party in new york and says, hey, youre the go negotiating with the russians, right . He goes, yeah. And trump had just written the bestseller the earth of the de the art of the deal. He goes i got a great idea how you could get a deal with the russians. The first meeting with them, you show up late. Then you walk over, pound your fist on the table and say f you. Of course bert did not take his advice, negotiated a pretty good treaty within a couple of years, by which time another one of trumps businesses had gone bankrupt. The topic of your book, it strikes me, has been used twice in World History in anger, and we kept it there. Right. Is it to you akin to loosening norms, that what were seeing right now in our society, that another generation is coming up having not known the sheer Awesome Force of this . Are we getting too casual in tossing about mentions of it, threats of its use . Casual is the word. Cavalier might be another that sums up trumps attitude toward this. The famous meeting that took place in the tank on july 20th, 2017, there had been books that described calling the generals pussies and weaklings and babies. Another thing that happenehappe was shown a chart, a number of Nuclear Weapons over the ages, and the peak was 1969 when we had 32,000 Nuclear Weapons. We have not quite onetenth that number now. This was shown to show, you know, the value of treatymaking and the new stability in the world and so forth, but thats not how President Trump took it. He pointed to the peak of that, and he goes, how come i cant have as many Nuclear Weapons as we did back then . They explained to him all the reasons, and he seemed convinced. But i was told about a week later in a meeting in the white house with thenNational Security adviser h. R. Mcmaster and some others, he remembered this chart again. He says, how come i cant have as many Nuclear Weapons as other president s have had . With him, this is why he loves a military parade too. It has nothing to do with what you need for legitimate National Security aims. Its bigger, strongerlooking, more, you know. He was upset that, you know, Richard Nixon had more Nuclear Weapons than he did for no good reason really. Your closing quote, ill leave the audience with this. Past is not precedence. Some incalculable mix of shrewdness and sheer luck has kept the holocaust at bay. Who knows how many more wars we can dodge before an alignment of slowwittedness and misfortune tips the balance the other way. That is why we chose to end this week and this friday night on an upbeat, light topic, but we hope people read the stories contained in the book. Fred kaplan the author with us tonight. Coming up, a president ial historians comparison of our first ever commander in chief with our 45th. Limu emu doug [ siren ] give me your hand i can save you. Lots of money with Liberty Mutual we customize your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Colon Cancer Screening for people 45 plus at average risk. Some things are harder than you thought. And others are easier. Like screening for colon cancer with me, cologuard. Im noninvasive and you use me at home. Im also effective. I find 92 of colon cancers using dna in your stool. So why wait . Cologuard is not for those at high risk for colon cancer. False positive and negative results may occur. Ask your Healthcare Provider if cologuard is right for you. Most insured patients pay 0. Its a masterstroke of heartache and redemption. The lexus nx. Modern utility for modern obstacles. Lease the 2020 nx 300 for 359 a month for 36 months. Experience amazing at your lexus dealer. The upcoming president s day weekend begins a heavily promoted miniseries that will tell the story of george washington. It is billed as a look at the full arc of washingtons journey from soldier to the first president of these united states. Washington is without question the greatest hero and leader in american history, but hes a stranger. I, george washington, do solemnly swear people see him more as a monument than a person. But you cant understand him unless you acknowledge that he was human. That i will faithfully execute the office of president of the united states. When we understand the man behind the myth, it actually becomes empowering and inspiring for us. Back with us tonight, doris kearns goodwin, president ial historian and author, who has written bestsellers about both roosevelts, kennedys, lbj, lincoln for starters. Historian and author, who has written bestsellers about both roosevelts, kennedys, lbj, lincoln for starters. Her latest work is leadership in turbulent times, hear, hear. She also happens to be executive producer of this threepart miniseries washington, about our nations first president. Narrated by jeff daniels, it premieres sunday night, 8 00 p. M. Eastern on the history channel. Doris, first of all, its great to see you. Oh, thank you. Im glad to be with you. Secondly, what are we apt to learn . Whats a mass audience apt to learn about this guy that we havent been told in american folklore, and what will peoples minds do when they necessarily compare it to our times . I think the most important thing is what you said. Its the arc of his life. So you see him as a young man. He makes mistakes. He has losses. He suffers adversity. But the most important thing is his ability to grow. He learns from his mistake. He surrounds himself with people, a team, almost the original team of rivals, people who can argue with him in the Continental Army and people who can argue with him in the presidency, and he grows through them. And he understands his weaknesses, and he understands his strengths. In the break, i asked you about his physicality, his bearing, how hes portrayed in the miniseries. Share with the folks what you said to me. Yeah. Theres a funny part of it where joe ellis, the historian, is talking about the fact that martha was a great catch for him because she was wealthy and she could bring him land, but he was a great catch for her because he was a stud. Im not sure we think of him he was taller than most people. Women talked about how gracefully he danced on the floor. He had a presence. Also, its an era youve written about and studied. Life was so hard. By approaching it todays standards, we cant imagine it. But all of them in philadelphia that hot summer were wearing wool and wigs, and if they were lucky, would dine on hot mutton and kind of a lukewarm ale at the end of the day. It was not a life. No, thats really true. Then you think about escalating what you just described when hes at valley forge and when he has to keep those soldiers alive, when the rations are cut down, when theyre dying, onefifth of them are dying, and yet he gives them a sense of purpose. And by the end of it, theyve survived enough to continue on. Its hard to imagine. Martha came and visited him at that time, and they lived and the great thing about it is that one of the historians talks about the fact, no, its general powell who talks about the fact that he saw war young. Hes on his First Mission as a british officer. Hes 22 years old. He sees people dying. He sees the toughness of life. After that, you never think of war as an adventure again. You never think of it romantically again. Youve experienced war. Of course general powell as a decorated combat veteran knows that all too well. What is your theory about does history find great men and women to step up and play in these roles and or do they grow to the occasion . I think they definitely grow to the occasion. I mean one of the historians says he was not born great. He took a journey to greatness. And i think if you saw him at the beginning, hes making so many mistakes in those early days before the french and indian war, and he screws up like human beings do. But what makes it possible is that they learn from that. And then opportunity arises, and he happens to be there, and hes the right man at the right time in the right place. I mean he could have been anything he wanted to. He could have been a king. The most amazing thing that he leaves to us is the peaceful transfer of power. After the war was won, most generals take control of the government. He takes off his uniform, goes home, and decides that this is it. And the king george iii says, oh, my god, if thats true that he really did that, he gave up power, hed be the greatest man in the world. Then hes president for two terms. They want him to stay third, fourth. He could have stayed until he died, and he goes back home. So thats a really important lesson for us that power can be transferred. He becomes a citizen again, and hes not a king. Hes a president. Put it this way. We had a choice of who to name our capital city after. I think by the end of part three, most viewers will come away thinking we got that part really right. Doris kearns goodwin, congrats on this. This is a great thing. Coming up for us, an unusual show and tell session as it played out in front of cameras today. the sun is risin as the day begins time for reflectin on family and friends and hey, we got somethin just for you sniffing its a cup of your favoriiiite. loud splashing highpitched laughter dang woodchucks with geico, the savings keep on going. Just like this sequel. 15 minutes could save you 15 or more on Car Insurance. No. Uh uh, no way. Come on. No. No. N. Ni ni, no no only discover has no annual fee on any card. But maybe not for people with rheumatoid arthritis. N. Ni ni, no no because there are options. Like an unjection™. Xeljanz xr, a oncedaily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. Xeljanz xr can reduce pain, swelling and further joint damage, even without methotrexate. Xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections like tb; dont start xeljanz if you have an infection. 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But for now, the president seems very proud of his project. I dont know if you can see this, but its pretty impressive. These are different pictures, different shots. This is the wall going up. Theyre working at night as you can see. Either that or its an extremely dark day. Heres another shot. This is a shot of a little different section. After its up, it gets spraypainted black. The black makes it extraordinarily hot, especially in areas along the mexican border. Its not known for cold weather. Its known for quite hot weather. The black absorbs the heat, so not only would you have to be a good climber, but youre going to have to bring a hose with lots of water to water it down, and there arent too many hoses in the area. Virtually impossible to climb over the top. Heres another shot. But we got it built, and i made your jobs a lot easier. Say thank you, mr. President. Finally and as promised, a fact check from the federal government. Border protection put this out 20 days ago showing that as of last month, 99 miles of new wall have been constructed where an old existing barrier stood. There has been one mile of totally new wall construction along a section of the border where no barrier previously stood. On that note, that is our broadcast for this friday night as we bring another week to a close. Happy valentines day to all. Thank you for being here with us. Have a good weekend and good night from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. Thank you for day four of the rule of law crisis. That has been unleashed by President Trump and his attorney general william barr. Today, interestingly, is the oneyear anniversary of william barr taking over at the Justice Department. Congratulations. Hows it gone . In this current scandal this week, were not only learning what general barr has been up to this week, as it has become a gigantic scandal and its all started falling apart, were now learning from public reporting and sources starting to squawk about it, were learning what exactly william barr has been up to on the president s be