Transcripts For MSNBCW The 11th Hour With Brian Williams 20191030

Democrats laid out the road map that may result in articles of impeachment. Tonight well tally up the extent of the change within the gop and ask how putin is likely viewing all of this. Far from politics tonight, the concern is life or death in california, where a historic warning has been issued because of whats about to begin tonight. As the 11th hour gets underway on this tuesday evening. Good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york, day 1,013 of the trump administration. And the breaking news were covering at the top of the broadcast here tonight is an indication that todays testimony by an activeduty army officer might have been more damaging to the president than we first knew or thought. His testimony wrapped up tonight after ten hours. The New York Times has new reporting on todays testimony from Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, an army officer whose works is detailed in the white house and overheard the president s phone call to ukraine. The times writes quote he told house impeachment investigators on tuesday that the white house transcript of a july call between President Trump and ukraines president omitted crucial words and phrases. And that his the teams restore them failed. The omissions included there were recordings of former Vice President biden discussing ukraine corruption and an explicit mention by ukraines president of burisma holdings, the Energy Company whose board employed mr. Bidens son, hunter. Remember something important. The record of the phone call the president keeps referring to as the perfect call, the record we all got to see was not a transcript, it was a summary. In some of the places where we see an ellipsis, three o dots in the text, the Lieutenant Colonel there is thats where the lurnt colonel tried to put back into the record was rebuffed according to his apparent testimony today. This colonel is the first impeachment witness that listened to the july 25 phone call between trump and his ukrainian counterpart that is at the center of this impeachment inquiry. Nbc news has also confirmed the times reporting tonight. Vindman happens to be an iraq war veteran who was wounded in an ied road side bomb. He immigrated when he was 3, back when ukraine was still part of the former soviet union. This decorated war veteran this morning came under attack from President Trump, quote, how many more nevertrumpers will be allowed to testify about a perfectly appropriate phone call when all anyone has to do is read the transcript . Again, we never got a transcript. According to the corrupt media, the ukraine call concerned todays nevertrumper witness. Was he on the same call i was . Cant be possible. As we first reported here last night, Lieutenant Colonel vindmans motives were also questioned by commentators and media on the right known to support the president. Beginning on cable news last night, they employed on old trope, one that has been used against japanese americans, against jews, against italian americans and others, that is, the whiff of divided loyalties. So if you look at this Lieutenant Colonels background, he has a purple heart, born in the soviet union, immigrated with his family young. It seems very clear that he is incredibly concerned about ukrainian defense. I dont know about his concern about american policy, but his mission was to make sure the ukraine got those weapons. I noticed that. We all have an affinity to our homeland. Im sure vindman has the same affinity. Here we have a u. S. National security official who is advising ukraine while working inside the white house apparently against the president s interests, and usually they spoke english. Isnt that kind of an interesting angle on this story . I find that astounding and some people might call that espionage. The trope of divided loyalties. Today one member of the House Republican leadership who happens to also be the daughter of a former United States Vice President spoke out against such comments. I also want to say a word about Something Else thats been going on over the course of the last several hours and last night, which i think is also shameful, and that is questioning the patriotism, questioning the dedication to country of people like mr. Vindman. It is shameful to question their patriotism, their love of this nation and we should not be b involved in that process. House democrats meantime have rolled out their official road map for this next phase of the impeachment inquiry, including how they plan to go public with their findings. Lawmakers will vote thursday on this eightpage resolution that keeps House Intelligence Committee chairman adam schiff front and center in these proceedings for now. The intelligence and Judiciary Committees will be able to hold open hearings. Transcripts from all these depositions weve seen in that basement room in the capitol can and will be released to the public, and republicans can subpoena witnesses and documents subject to the democrats approval. Any articles of impeachment would come from the Judiciary Committee then sent to the full house. The resolution also lays out Due Process Rights for mr. Trump and his lawyers once proceedings move to the Judiciary Committee. Today trumps republican allies in the house argued the resolution and a consent vote still do not address their concerns about the process. You cant put the genie back in the bottle. A due process starts at the beginning. It doesnt affirm a sham investigation all the way through. Its clear pelosi needs to declare a mistrial. This has been a tainted process from the start. This resolution should go down in flames. This process is illegitimate and without credibility. Tomorrow afternoon the House Rules Committee will begin reviewing the draft impeachment resolution as it moves forward. The top democrat in the senate says hes concerned about the impeachment time line and president s tendency to try to distract. Im increasingly worried that President Trump may want to shut down the government again because of the impeachment, an impeachment inquiry. He always likes to create diversions. I hope and pray he wont want to cause another Government Shutdown because it might be a diversion away from impeachment. Here for our leadoff discussion on a tuesday night, phil rucker, Pulitzer Prize prize winning bureau chief for the washington post, ashley parker, White House Reporter for the washington post, and to keep things fair, elizabeth miller, the Washington Bureau chief for the New York Times, three of the finest print journalists working in washington today. Welcome to you all. Elizabeth, id like to begin with you. Have we ventinvented a new caty of the incremental game changer . Like taylor before him, was todays witness indeed, an incremental game changer . Absolutely. It doesnt change the nature of the call, of the transcript that the white house put out, but it certainly provides key details. It increases the suspicion of what the white house is doing or not doing. We were curious about those ellipses in the transcript. Call, which is a rough transcript. Its based on Voice Recognition software that colonel vindman and others looked over. He took notes on the call and looked over and made corrections. For whatever reason, those corrections were not included in the final document that was put in that vault. So it does raise questions about what happened at the white house after those corrections were made, and why were key phrases and words not included. Phil rucker, i want to play for you now a portion of President Trumps comments. This was october it has not well discuss it on the other side. They had a transcript done by very, very talented people, word for word, comma for comma, done by people that do it for a living. We had an exact transcript. That right there, an exact transcript, as you know better than most, phil, is not what we have seen. We saw a summary with the alreadymentioned ellipses in there. Where todays witness apparently says in part, the president spoke to fill that space. We also, however, have reporting front your colleague, greg miller, who says this, officials describe the discrepancy cited by vindman as minimal and of limited significance to investigators, even vindman didnt ascribe any sinister motive to the changes he saw that were not incorporated into the d. Phil, do we have two things that are true, a dpocumet with discrepancies that may not be earthshattering in their nature in what was left out . Thats right, brian. While the discrepancies may not be earthshattering, they are notable. And the ellipses that were left in fact summary, the rough transcript, were very notable. He they raised suspicions when the white house released that document several weeks ago, and that will continue now because while windy filled in some of those gaps before Congress Today talking about the mention of burisma by the ukrainian president as well as trumps mention of biden being on tape, what we dont understand yet is why that was omitted from the final transcript, why was that not added to the document that was then preserved in the white house . We also dont have answers still as to why this document was kept so secret inside of the government. It was put into what elizabeth just referred to as the vault, which is this very secure way to hold on to classified, sensitive material, not a standard foreign leader call like this. That raised a ton of suspicion in the administration and we dont have any answers yet as to why officials in the white house were motivated to store the document there and keep it away from prying eyes. Ashley, i know you dont speak for them, but you sure do report on them. How ha rowing must this be inside the west wing because the nature this has now taken on . Insiders in so many cases, lifelong Public Servants choosing to step forward and thus far all telling different parts of all the same narrative. Well, on the one hand, its worth noting this is a white house that has long operated not just in chaos, but under a number of inquiries. So there are some people who are perhaps not as alarmed as you or i might expect have because they can point to, for instance, the Mueller Investigation. That said, there is a real understanding inside and outside the white house among allies, among republican lawmakers on capitol hill that this is not good, that this is gaining momentum and traction in a way that the Mueller Investigation never really did. Each one of these witnesses who are going up with their name behind closed doors, but testimony is leaking out and emerging, are mafrprching in lo step and painting a picture that is very damaging for this president and this white house. Even his allies generally feel unfortunately trying to publicly defend. Elizabeth, lets talk about speaker pelosi. In the in them, your binder is the playbook. On top of that you are able to call audibles when circumstances call for them. She has done both. This is her playbook. There is every indication that this road map they announced today is all in keeping with her playbook. Is it another way of saying she has right now unrivaled control over her caucus . I would agree with that. Dont forget it wasnt that long ago that people were questioning whether she should be speaker. She was too old, she was had been there before. She wasnt going to be able to control her caucus, she was too centrist. She had a left flank that was creating problems. Right now she is completely in control. What shes done very carefully is keep her actions parallel with what we see in the opinion polls, which is now the majority of americans, according to many polls, want to see impeachment and some of them want many of them want to see trump removed from office by the senate, which is unlikely to happen at this point but shes been careful to stay in tune with the majority of americans and certainly with the vast majority of democrats. Phil rucker, lets talk about the increasing discomfort for republicans. Again, a lot of them are aware that this witness today was different. Active duty, u. S. Army officer. That means he is held to a code that makes it mandatory for him to bump up his findings up the chain of command, which he did. They know that. That makes him more credible than most. Thats right, brian. Theres another thing that makes him more credible. Hes the first witness in this impeachment proceeding who actually listened to that call between trump and zelensky. Hes the first who served in the white house on the National Security council to come testify before congress. Therefore, hes not passing along what the republicans have derided as hearsay, but rather, hes sharing his firsthand accounts of what has trans transpired in the white house. Some democratic lawmakers are talking now about possibly bringing him back for the public phase of this, the next round of hearings are going to be public in the Intelligence Committee led by chairman schiff. Theres talk that the Lieutenant Colonel would be a very compelling and credible witness to be on television, to be basically addressing the American People. Ashley, right there, to phils last point, arent the republicans days away from losing their big argument that this is secretive, this has somehow been carried out unlike other similar actions in the house . It doesnt resemble a grand jury, its being done in the basement, its all going to switch to the upper floors very shortly. They sure are in danger of losing that argument, but its not going to prevent them from making a different one. A democratic lawmaker said today basically to the republicans, you asked for this, you got it. Already were seeing the republicans shift their complaints from, now that leader pelosi is offering this vote, theyre sort of saying, well, the process was tarnished from the beginning. So theyre sort of going to change their argument and make a lot more of the witch hunt weve heard from the president , you know, a scam. But they are certainly not satisfied that democrats by and large have now given them what they have been clambering for for the past few weeks. Our debt of thanks tonight for three of the best in the business, philip rucker, ashley parker, elizabeth miller, thank you so much for starting off our conversation tonight. Coming up for us, breaking down the specifics of this House Resolution on the impeachment of donald john trump. Its intended as a road map for where this goes next. Later, theres now nothing to compare it to. As california forecasters have issued a first of its kind warning about whats about to happen tonight. The 11th hour is just Getting Started on this tuesday evening. Oh you got a fast one there just cant get him to slow down this class will help with that we get it. You got it were petsmart ever since you brought me home, that day. 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If its connected, its protected. Call, click, or visit a store today. Today the democratic chairs of the four house committees involved in the impeachment inquiry gave us a preview of what we might expect in open hearings following thursdays vote. They released a statement that read in part, and we, quote, the house impeachment inquiry has collected extensive evidence and testimony, and soon the American People will hear from witnesses in an open setting. The resolution provides rules for the format of open hearings in the House Intelligence Committee, including staffled questioning, thats important, of witnesses, and the authorizes the public release of deposition transcripts. Over in the senate, heres what Majority Leader Mitch Mcconnell said today about the democrats impeachment resolution. The action is in the house now. Well see whether they can, a, meet due process standards, and then see what they do. I think the vote theyre now going to have to open the impeachment inquiry will be very interesting. Will all the democrats vote for it . We have a experienced guy we look forward to talking to, ron claim, former chief counsel, senate judiciary, former chief of staff to al gore, and former chief of staff to joe biden, who he is advising in an informal basis these days. Hey, ron, thank you for coming on. First of all, is this a tricky vote . Is there any risk involved . Well i think it is not a tricky vote, but its going to be a highly subsequently vote. Senator mcconnell said i want to see if the democrats vote for it. The question is will all the House Republicans vote against it. Many of these republicans are in districts where a lot of their constituents, even if they arent yet convinced trump should be removed, are they going to march down there and vote to not have an inquiry . I think it will be an interesting vote, but im very confident that the democrats will ultimately prevail on that vote on thursday. Republicans every day have called this a secret process. Theyve called this a kangaroo court. They had the flash mob in the basement room. Based on your experience, have the democrats done anything procedurally different up till now from the clinton experience, and does this road map, this document, this bill youve seen, this resolution, call for anything different than the procedure followed during the clinton impeachment . To the extent that its different, it actually creates a much more extensive process for the president to tell his side of the story. Remember with the clinton impeachment basically everything happened in private. Ken starr then coughed up this huge report in october. There were no hearings on the charges made. The house Judiciary Committee began immediately to work on articles of impeachment. They had just one day of evidence from the independent counsel. Two days for the white house lawyers to present, and then they drafted and voted on those articles. Here youve got a whole process before that, which is a set of public hearings in the House Intelligence Committee that presumably will bring forward some of the witnesses that have been deposed already, perhaps other witnesses, and have a chance to have this story litigated out in public before even the Judiciary Committee begins to do its work. If anything, i think its a more extensive process and the complaints about the process are going to start to evaporate very quickly when we start to hear from the witnesses in public soon. Ron, i think it can be said that weve watched the Judiciary Committee have some public stumbles. I think it can further be said that you live in a town obsessed with politics and personalities and whos up, whos down, and winners and losers. I think we can safely say that schiff is a huge winner in this process, and that nadler will get the case when its time for nadler to get the case. Do you concur . I do. By the way, it is the town obsessed with baseball right now. I know. Yes, yes. But i think thats exactly right, brian. And i think that this is a decision to largely put the building of the case in adam schiffs committee and let the case play out there, and then to give the house Judiciary Committee a more constrained role. I think it is a nod to schiff and his leadership. It is a nod to the work hes done already to break this thing open, to bring forward the evidence that he has. And it will be the centerpiece of the development of the case against donald trump. But i also think its important to know that the house Judiciary Committee will still play Critical Role in drafting the articles and in a place where the president s lawyers get the first chance to make that case directly before congress. I think thats fair to say. Would you also if you were advising this process, would you recommend the further use of outside counsel, something that was actually briefly successful for that committee. Yeah, i think both committees. I think both Intelligence Committee and the Judiciary Committee should make extensive use of outside counsel. Of course, thats built into this resolution with a big change. The hearing with Corey Lewandowski that went off the rails and came back on the rails when barry burbank, a skilled lawyer, questioned linewandowsk. That came at the end. What this resolution today says is the expert question will come at the beginning of the hearing, in the first 90 minutes, 45 for the democrats, 45 for the republicans. I think thats going to put this expert question front and center of this hearings and make them more effective and more on point. As you point out, lewandowski had already river danced up and down the table before the professional lawyer arrived. Last question. How long do you think this process will take . This is going to be very quick by congressional standards, maybe not like pizza delivery standards, but by congressional standards. In 1998 starr delivered his report to the congress, the first week in october. They finished december 19th. The goal here is to still finish before christmas, if not sooner, and they really arent going to get started with the public part of this process until november. So i think they are going to be chockfull of action in november and december and really cramp g scrambling to get to the house floor and get to a vote to articles of impeachment before christmas eve. As we like to say around here, what could go wrong . Always great to have a guy of your experience on. Coming up for us tonight, why our next guest thinks Vladimir Putin is set to gain the most from what were watching right now. But when your team is always dealing with device setups, app updates, and support calls. 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I know colonel vindman. He is a firstrate military officer. He was an outstanding official at our embassy. He was appointed at the nationl Security Council because he is one of the best and the brightest. The idea that somebody with his resume would not serve the United States of america is just disgusting. Its outrageous, and i want those people to apologize and to remember what theyre doing when they take cheap shots at people like colonel vindman when they dont know his background and they dont know his history. With us tonight to talk about it, clint watts, former fbi special agent, a distinguished Research Fellow at the Foreign Policy Research Institute and author of messing with the enemy. Clint, we talked about having you on under the headline of what must Vladimir Putin be making of what he sees. So lets start there. What does putin make of all of this . If you look at how the u. S. Opposes aggression from a foreign state like russia, every element of the government has been attacked, but not by russia, but by people in the white house, people in congress, people in the public. Think about it. Fbi agents and the Counterintelligence Division that have investigated and done their duties to counter russia have been tarnished and degraded on twitter. This colonel is one of our experts on russia and ukraine. Do you think hell be able to to do his job effectively again . Hes designing strategies, serving in moscow and kiev. Shifted to the state department, bill taylor, our best ambassador probably that weve had thats out there has now been tarnished and called a nevertrump. Turn to the intel committee, we have a search for a whistleblower by our elected officials trying to out that person who is clearly someone that knows the russia threat. If you look across the government in all these elements of u. S. Government right now, they have all been degraded, tied up with investigations, beaten down by the president of the United States or other congressmen. How would we even counter putin at this point. If you were looking at it from afar, russia just cannot believe everything thats been given to. If you look around the world, were seeing them in africa again, after two decades of really being absence there, theyre pushing aggressively. Were seeing them in the balkans, eastern europe. In scandinavia also and theyre starting to mess around in the middle east. From a world standpoint, we are retreating from the world, and our top defenders across all of the United States government are back on their heels due to infighting in our own country. Vladimir putin hasnt done niftd. We are doing it to ourselves. Theres been talk about this Lieutenant Colonel being the recipient, and for good reason. Purple heart. He was in an ied blast of the his vehicle got blown up, he received combat wounds. Hes still Walking Around with shrapnel as a result. As i look at him, and i happen to know a lot of folks in the service, when they glance at this picture of him, theres something that stands out. Theres a reason its above his rack of decorations, the powder blue rectangle with two laurels and a rifle through the center. As a west point grad yourself and an army veteran yourself, tell our audience what that decoration is, and what it means to his fellow veterans and service members. Thats the combat badge. It is an esteemed award given to those that actually fight as infantry men or special forces, colonel and below in actual combat action. For sustained days at a time. Thats exactly right. It was developed during world war ii to be given to infantry men to give them some sort of status or incentivize them, make them feel like they had a great impeachment f achievement for getting to the front lines. Its a coveted award to earn. People strive for that once they deploy. They want to be part of the fight. So when you see that on an officer like we saw today, somebody walking into the senate and then being disparaged out in the public space by leaked officials, questions about his allegiance to the United States after he served his country so dutifully and in combat, and he wears that badge, its quite a sad moment in our modern history amongst many sad moments in recent days. Ask ynd im due to bound to you about the good news we received this weekend that al baghdadi is gone. Thats right. Of all terrorist leaders, he is as terrible as it gets. You know, just a murderer, someone who committed atrocities, and really inspired a terrorist organization that did many things that al qaeda could not do. Theyre their Terror Campaign through europe, their inspiration to set up an Islamic State, and he appointed himself the kay will you identicaliph. Is it the same blow as it would have been two years ago . Not quite because the Islamic State is on the retreat. But its a symbolic victory and it is one that sends a message that the Islamic State is unlikely to come back if the in it way it is. They trained, recruited, and dispatched foreign fighters from dozens of countries around the world that will be the next wave of jihadist violence around the world. A Great Success for the United States and for our Coalition Partners as well. Particularly the syrian kurds and the iraqis who provided us so much support at a time when we are not providing them the best structure to support us. Thank you, as always. Appreciate you coming by. Clint watts. Coming up, what congressman schiff says his committee will not put up from this president. Well have that after this. Umat, month after month, the clock is ticking on irreversible joint damage. Ongoing pain and stiffness are signs of joint erosion. Humira can help stop the clock. 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Testimony of a White House National security official turned combative tuesday as democrats accused republicans of trying to unmask the whistleblower. Democrats called the gop attempt to ferret out details on the whistleblower potentially dangerous. Indeed, with us for more tonight, meyer wily, former assistant u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york, now with the new school here in new york, and bill kristol, editor at large of the bulwark, also a veteran of the reagan and bush administrations. Two old friends, good evening to you both. Counselor, id like to begin with you. What of the effort to unmask the whistleblower . Is it just for distraction purposes . In your eyes, was this a good fact witness today to have . Two great questions, brian. First, if you dont have a defense, you become defensive. And thats really what i think were seeing around constant deflection from testimony from witness who were in key rooms when key conversations were happening, undermining the republicans argument that theres no evidence of a quid pro quo. Thats what we heard from Lieutenant Colonel vindmans Opening Statement that we all were able to read. So what we constantly see is a return to, but whos the whistleblower . The whistleblower is irrelevant, and the reason the whistleblower is irrelevant is the whistleblower is a person who says i spoke to these people who had facts and knowledge. What congress has received is testimony from the actual people with those facts and knowledge. Superceding. Super ceding the whistleblower. To keep putting it back to the whistleblower is certainly detraction because they cant focus on facts that challenge the ultimate premise of the potential impeachment, which is whether or not donald trump sought dirt on a political opponent from a foreign government. And what we heard from Lieutenant Colonel vindman today was nothing short, just from the Opening Statement, was nothing short of astounding. Bill, as a member of what i like to call republican classic, i have a tweet that i noted today that i want to put on the screen and read for you a point i was trying to make last night. A short while ago, men such as robert mueller, William Taylor and Alexander Vindman would have been pinups for us american conservatives, decorated combat veterans, patriots, straight arrows, the urge to prop up trump changed all of this. A heartbreaking and infuriating era. Knowing you as i do, i think that probably speaks for your particular ethos. Can you believe were in this period . Can you believe were back to divided loyalty tropes, the same that were used against japaneseamericans, jewishamericans, italianamericans . Can you believe it took a former Vice President s daughter in congress to stand up one voice and say lets stop this . Im glad liz cheney did. Hes just appalled and cant believe it. Public hearings probably really soon within a week and a half and well see bill taylor, i would imagine, testify. We will see colonel vindman testify. Leaving aside the details, i think with zero chance those people are not telling the truth. They are honorable people and theyre telling the truth as they recollected and they have goth good recollection and close experience. Im happy to be on their side. They didnt volunteer. What you think of donald trump or something, but the hacks attacking them, hack is too kind of a word. The republicans keep complaining on this process, we want to call witnesses. Who are they going to call . I say that honestly. There would be people, presumably Mick Mulvaney, the chief of staff who was involved, Rudy Giuliani. Lets see if they have the nerve to call those witnesses because theyre the ones the president didnt do anything. Theyre against bolton, mulvaney and giuliani testifying f. They have nothing to hide, why dont those people testify. We detect a shift in the winds of both of our guests have agreed to stay with us. Coming up, the one name you might have heard just there that may sit atop the witness and wish list, here he is, as Congress Continues to gather testimony toward potential articles of impeachment. My grandfather had an amazing life, but ancestry showed me so much more than i could have imagined. My grandfather was born in a shack in pennsylvania, his father was a miner, they were immigrants from italy and somewhere along the way that man changed his name and transformed himself into a successful midcentury american man. He had a whole life that i didnt know anything about. He was just my beloved grandpa. Bring your Family History to life like never before. Get started for free at ancestry. Com oh you got a fast one there just cant get him to slow down this class will help with that we get it. You got it were petsmart we make aspirin to help save lives during a heart attack. So it never stops the heart of a family. At bayer, this is why we science. You and i both work with ambassador bolton, and i hope he testifies because he would have perfect knowledge of what the president s mind was, what the president was trying to do. He obviously saw the power play by Rudy Giuliani. Its very significant now. John bolton should testify. I think he owes it to the country to testify. Former National Security adviser has yet to make an appearance on capitol hill, but boltons name sure has been kicked around and einvoked in connection to this impeachment inquiry, not in a way likely to be helpful to the president , his former boss. A reminder that trumps former top aide in ukraine has testified it was bolton who objected to the Pressure Campaign and to the notion of withholding military funding approved by congress. Fiona hill relayed that bolton told her, quote, i am whatever drug deal ambassador sondland and Mick Mulvaney are cooking up, adding Rudy Giulianis a hand grenade whos going to blow everybody up. Still with us here tonight, maya wily and bill kristol. Maya, what does bolton get you if he goes all the way and is sondland in a heap of trouble anyway . Lets start with sondland because thats easy. Sondlands in a heap of trouble because if i mean, we dont know his literal testimony. But it appears that he made statements under oath that we have heard from Lieutenant Colonel vindman are not consistent with what happened. Right . So that raises a question of perjury. Again, i agree, Lieutenant Colonel vindman had no reason to lie, seems to have been very forthcoming. So thats one question. And it is bolton who has the ability to say whos telling the truth. Because Lieutenant Colonel vindman is the person who says i was in the room with ukrainians two weeks before the call that donald trump has with president zelensky and in that meeting it was sondland, and rick perry was in it too, but it was sondland who said you want that meeting with trump youve got to open these investigations, and that it was john bolton according to the Lieutenant Colonel who says were stopping this right now. Fiona hill wasnt in the room yet. So it really is bolton who can say whos telling the truth here. And secondly, you know, we dont know, was bolton says he left. Donald trump says he was pushed out. He can speak to that. But there is a big difference. Because if he left or even if trump pushed him out, why . What were they disagreeing about . Could it have been this . There was also the taliban invitation. Theres a long list. Venezuela. There was a venezuela now youre on technicalities. Its not so much that we have something new to learn in terms of the allegations as much as if bolton testifies will he corroborate some key witnesses because they put bolton in the room. Bill kristol, Nicolle Wallaces show briefly today was the hottest club in new york because, a, nicolle spoke her mind today. B, Donny Deutsch floated out the gop ticket of romney and former nikki haley, which he said the democrats could not match. And then this happened. This is former member of Congress David jolly talking about the potential jeopardy being faced by mike pence. Mike pence is guilty. Without question. Mike pence mike pence was told by trump to skip zelenskys inauguration in may. Certainly he would have been told why. The phone call happened on july 25th. The Text Messages occurred throughout august. And on september 1 donald trump sends mike pence to meet with ukraine president zelensky in warsaw, poland for pence to deliver the message that mr. President , you are not receiving your aid. There is no way the Vice President mike pence would have gone into that meeting without a full brief of the white houses posture toward ukraine. Your reaction. Im no defender of mike pence, but honestly, people can say whatever they want here on tv and analyze up and down. They should stay focused on donald trump is the person whos going to be i think likely impeached and then maybe convicted. Republicans need to believe, and i think they will believe, that if trump is removed from office mike pence will succeed. One of the big things is keeping trump is half of the republican primary electorate thinks if trump is impeached nancy pelosi becomes president or Hillary Clinton or something. So i think with all due respect to whatever pence should have known, could have known, may even have some taint, we have a serious question about the president of the United States and it isnt a time to follow too many other trails. Im sure there are many other things Rudy Giuliani knew, what mike pence knew, what Mick Mulvaney knew, but this isnt the moment to sort of try to bring down, you know, every person in the administration i think. Thats fair. Our thanks to two returning veterans, maya wily, bill kristol. Appreciate it. Please come back. Coming up, we shift our attention to the west and a crisis most people out east cannot fathom. Brownbagging it. So why you paying so much for wireless . I dont know. The new Tracfone Wireless gives you all kinds of control. Leftovers . Tracfone lets you keep your leftover data each month. What are you doing . Unlimited carryover data hey do you know you can get unlimited talk and text on americas best 4g lte networks for 20, no contract . Unlimited talk . I like that because on sundays you know i gotta talk to mama, then on. This is your wakeup call, people. The new Tracfone Wireless. Now youre in control. Its rukmini here from the New York Times. Hey, you see this . 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And while its hard to predict fire conditions any worse than what weve seen in california this week, tonight will be the night. The National Weather service has never issued an extreme red flag warning before. Such a thing had never been issued because it didnt exist before today. And heres another quote. Conditions are as dangerous for fire growth and behavior as we have seen in recent memory. 20 million californians are in danger. The santa ana winds are going to blow up there around 11 00 local time tonight. Gusts could hit 80 miles an hour. For perspective, most humans cannot stand up unassisted in 80mileanhour winds. Imagine how far they can throw an ember and how fast fire could run down a hillside. Put another way, theres no siving that hillside, theres no saving your home in winds approaching that speed. If anyone can, however, its the fire crews who are going to work right now, tonight. This, by the way, is where theyre living. Lap of luxury as usual. And while most will tell you theyll sleep when theyre dead, theyve got to rest because like the fires theyre fighting it takes nothing for an eighthour shift to explode into 12 or 24. And one more time because this is important, we have admitted the obvious here before. There is geographic dysmorphia at work in the coverage of these fires. Network news divisions are still headquartered out here in the east. To be more exact, we are all just blocks away from each other. And make no mistake, if we could smell this smoke in midtown manhattan, if these were our homes in danger, our families being evacuated, live coverage would air perhaps at times in a split screen alongside impeachment coverage all day and all night. So absent that, please allow us to say to our brothers and sisters in california, citizens, and First Responders both, we are thinking of you tonight. That is our broadcast for this evening. We thank you for being here with us. Good night from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. They sent him and his wife dead rats. In the mail. This is from the resentencing filing that his lawyers ultimately made on