Transcripts For MSNBCW The 11th Hour With Brian Williams 20191016

Headquarters in new york, where this was day 999 of the Trump Administration. And the fourth democratic debate is just now wrapping up, and our coverage now begins, as you can see. Nicolle wallace heading up our entire onair team over the next twoplus hours of live coverage. Tonight was the first debate since the formal impeachment inquiry started. It was the largest number of contestants on a single debate stage. We saw some new candidate dynamics, lets call them, some new attack line, all within the confines of the issues that usually break out when democrats get together. The issue of impeachment was front and center at tonights debate with candidates weighing in on trumps conduct. Donald trump broke the law again in the summer, broke it again this fall. You know, we took a constitutional oath, and that is that no one is above the law, and that includes the president of the United States. In my judgment, trump is the most corrupt president in the history of this country. This president of the United States has gone so far to say since this latest event that in fact he will not cooperate in any way at all, will not let any witnesses, will not provide any information, will not do anything to cooperate with the impeachment. They have no choice but to move. Donald trump needs to be held accountable. He is indeed the most corrupt and unpatriotic president we have ever had. I swore an oath to do my job as a senator, do my duty. This president has violated his. I will do mine. When he made that call to the head of ukraine, hes digging up dirt on an opponent. Thats illegal conduct. Majority of americans not only support impeachment, they support removal. He should be removed. Joe biden was also asked about his son hunters foreign business ties. On sunday, you announced that if youre president , no one in your family or associated with you will be involved in any foreign businesses. My question is if its not okay for a president s family to be involved in foreign businesses, why was it okay for your son when you were Vice President . Vice President Biden . Look, my son did nothing wrong. I did nothing wrong. I carried out the policy of the United States government. In rooting out corruption in ukraine. And thats what we should be focusing on. And what i wanted to make a point about, my sons statement speaks for itself. He spoke about it today. This president on three occasions, three occasions has invited foreign governments and heads of government to get engaged in trying to alter our elections. The fact is that it is outrageous. Rudy giuliani, the president , and his thugs have already proven that they in fact are flat lying. What we have to do now is focus on donald trump. He doesnt want me to be the candidate. Hes going after me because he knows if i get the nomination, he will beat him like a drum. Tonight we saw a new dynamic, perhaps because she has been rising in the polls, senator Elizabeth Warren drew incoming fire at one of these debates for the first time. Your signature, senator, is to have a plan for everything, except this. You are making republican talking points right now in this room. Saying this is a rules problem is ignoring the reality that americans see around us every single day. Sometimes i think that senator warren is more focused on being punitive or pitting some part of the country against the other. Id like to ask senator warren if she would join me in calling for an end to this regime change war in syria, finally. When i called on twitter to suspend Donald Trumps account that you did not agree, and i would urge you to join me. So that was something new. Tonights venue was an important one for the democrats. Ohio, as you may know, has given us eight u. S. President s, and theyve helped elect a ton more. Tonights venue was the campus of Audubon University in westerville, ohio. Tonight chris hayes is in the spin room for us. Hell be talking to all the candidates as they come in and walk through. Joining us here in the studio, weve assembled one of the best teams in the industry to help us tonight. Karine jeanpierre, chief Public Affairs officer for move on and an alum for both the Obama Campaign and the obama white house. Claire mccaskill, former democratic u. S. Senator from the great state of missouri. Eugene robinson, Pulitzer Prize winning columnist for the Washington Post. And at the big board all night tonight, our friend and National Correspondent Steve Kornacki. Welcome to you all. Nicol nicolle, what did we just witness tonight . In that clip of Elizabeth Warren getting attacked over and over again, and i agree, that is the new dynamic, but i think her support, the weird thing about these debates is they havent resulted in any seismic shifts. Even breakout performances are somehow immune from breakout shifts in the race. The race is frozen, for better or for worse. If youre biden, warren or sander, and he was pretty spry post heart attack, you like that its pretty frozen in place. Biden gets terrible press. He is in the middle of the impeachment scandal. His son was on tv today, received mixed reviews. Everyone knows what they think of joe biden. So these nights dont have as much at take for people for whom everyone already knows how they feel. I think that what people be l be talk about tomorrow morning around the water cooler is Pete Buttigieg. Pete buttigieg seems to speak to this primal hunger for Something Different and something better, not just among democrats. And i think democrats will choose among those 12 candidates. But i think democrats have front of mine electability. And i think buttigieg had a fantastic night. Among the 2 and 3 percenters, and we all know who they ra, did you detect any movement . Some had better nights than others. There just hasnt been any movement. I think if you go back to Kamala Harris area stellar night two or three debates ago, she was up for a little while and then she faded. So these debates havent proven to be the thing that democratic voters latch on to in any durable way. Senator, what was your lead story watching tonight . I agree with nicolle. First of all, 12 is too many. Stop. I surrender. 12 is too many. Its ridiculous. It would be great if we can get this down to the top four or five candidates, and you would really then maybe you could move some numbers then. Yeah, thats probably right. The polling shows that a whole bunch of the people who say theyre for Elizabeth Warren and for others, not just elizabeth are persuadable to other candidates. The thing that pete has going for him, not only a strong debate performance, hes got money. Tons of money. He does. Hes got a lot more money than the other candidates that are tucked in behind bernie and elizabeth and joe. So he can take it to an organizational level in these early states. He can get up on the airwaves in these early state, and i do think that elizabeth seemed a little put off by shes going to have to get used to there is going to be incoming if youre the frontrunner. I thought she seemed a little petulant at times when she was being challenged. You think a little . [ laughter ] we get real, real fast here. Very petulant. She was annoyed because she came under attack, and she was came under a lot of attack for the medicare for all, on the medicare for all question, and the question of would she raise taxes. And she has a formula that she sticks to. She says costs will go down for the middle class. She will not say that taxes will go up. But other costs will come down as Bernie Sanders says. She just wont go there. And she was pummelled for it. It makes her look like she is hiding something. Its one of the places biden drew blood late in the debate by saying to pay for this, if you took the entire pentagon budget and threw it out, it would buy you four months of medicare for all. Karine . I agree. Everybody on stage, pretty much all agreed she is the frontrunner and they attacked her, and she was uncomfortable. She did not handle it very well. But i have to agree with nicolle. This is not going to shake up anything. I dont think anyone in that second tier is going to move up to the first tier. We are pretty much frozen where we are right now. And a lot of it is because of this whole impeachment inquiry that has taken the 2020 campaign out of the front lines. I think for me, the best part of this debate was the first 20 minutes where they talked about Donald Trumps criminality. And thats what i didnt hear a lot of. They did not prosecute the case against donald trump at all hardly. And i think that was a big miss. In that alternate universe where these debates actually do move the polls, i think you would see Amy Klobuchar. She had a good night. I thought she had the best debate night that she has had by far. She was more aggressive. Yeah. She was succinct. She had one of the best lines about billionaires. Nobody up here is defending billionaires. Even the billionaires wont. That was a good line. I thought she was quite good. You know what stood out to me, and i say this very aware that i work for politicians whose policies were very unpopular with large swaths of the country. Elizabeth warren seem aid wear that her policy on health care is unpopular with some swaths of the country because democrats couldnt get her to own it and defend it. And i think and i just wonder if thats a sustainable position. I think its tough. And i think that is the chink in her armor. She may be avoiding the specifics because she wants to get back to the middle if she wins the nomination. And if she hasnt gone to specifics, its easier to do that. That may be a political calculation she is making. But on several things, she is going to have to be careful. You know, she raised big money two years for a senate race and put it all in the president ial. And now its oh, i dont take big money. Oh, there is a difference between rich people and me. Well, she is rich. You know, she is rich. So i do think she is going to have be very careful Going Forward to be friendly, to be strong, but to be willing to be specific on this health care thing or it could drag her down. I thought amy had a great night too. And i will tell you, i think joe biden had a good night. He was strong on Foreign Policy stuff, seemed very authentic and authoritative. He seemed in command. He may have had his best debate. He didnt have as much time talking as hes had in other debates, although i wanted him to say i wanted him to turn to the camera and say get your kids out of the white house. I agree. He could have gone harder. I really wish he would have done that. But maybe next time. The candidates are making their ways to chris hayes. Okay, theyre coming to the spin room. Theyre going to stop by chris hayes. Hey, chris, whats it like in there . You know, its right now its sort of cavernous and empty as we wait for them to filter in. I thought basically the dynamics that you spoke about were pretty evident. It has been three people at the top here. I think there is a sort of interesting theory of the case that revolves around Pete Buttigieg, and also to a certain extent Amy Klobuchar which is the idea that there is some vacuum and demand for a kind of nonbiden alternative to warren and sanders. And i think thats driven a lot of the thinking about the race. I think its driving the way people think about where they fit. What you saw tonight is that warren and sanders, they do not go after each other, and i think they dont go after each other because they really do view themselves as essentially comrades in arms in this. I really do think they view their vision as a genuine vision that they both share, that they feel they are making an internal party argument for. The question is there space . And this is a big question for the race right now, right . Is there space for someone who isnt joe biden to be in there, right . Is there a thirst or a demand or enough folks there. We saw that debate where warren and sanders went to town on the John Delaneys and the steve bullocks. Now youve got folks like Pete Buttigieg and i agree, Amy Klobuchar had a good night. She did very well. She is a United States senator. Is that resonating with voters or is the biden phenomenon about joe biden fundamentally, right . That people like joe biden. They trust joe biden. Theyve known him for a long time. That to me underlies all of the exchanges we saw tonight, both the attacks that came of warren, the facts that sanders didnt and the fact that joe biden is content to pass the microphone. Its really remarkable. But i think he understands and his staff understands correctly that debate performances are not what are driving voters to joe biden. Chris hayes, do you see any of the candidates making their way to you . Should we try to get a mic in to any of them . Im looking at all of our available monitors here. We can see what he can. Yes we do have a candidate here right now. How are you, mr. Castro. Good to see you. Good to see you, chris. Did you think there was enough Foreign Policy tonight . Well, we discussed some of that. Obviously we had a long discussion about syria. So there was some. I dont think that we addressed north korea. I didnt think we really addressed enough about china, so there were some gaps. But there were very significant gaps on the domestic side too. I just tweeted out a little while ago. We went three hours. Well didnt talk about immigration. We didnt talk about housing, even though we have a housing crisis in this country. And i challenge cnn and the New York Times to ask, finally ask about homelessness and housing. I tried to insert a little bit about that in some of my answers. But we talked about ellen at the end. And i know what the point of the question was, but we keep leaving some of these huge issues that impact families off of the question agenda at these debates. And really, its journalistic malpractice to do that. Do you feel like there is a lot of times on health care again, and it strikes me the reason the conversation goes there, because there are real lines of dispute quite Crystal Clear about this question of medicare for all who want it, medicare for all. Sure. Do you feel like you have a clear sense that voters are as focused on this . I think theyre focused on health care, sure. I think every family is focused on whether they have Good Health Care or how they can get it. I also think that theyre focused on the fact that a lot of people cant pay the rent, right . And so there are these sort of issues that are never touched on that intimately affect families every single day, that we just never get. To. Let me ask you this. We saw that exchange about medicare for all and the payment mechanism, right . And the theory of the case from Elizabeth Warren is its a weird distinction to talk about taxes versus premiums, because it just comes out of your paycheck, right . She is basically saying its the same thing. What matters is costs. Other people are saying thats disingenuous. You have to be honest with people about taxes. Where where do you come down on that . Look, i believe we can have a system thats based off of medicare but allow someone if they have a solid Health Insurance plan to keep that but i know where senator warren is going. You dont think thats evasive . No. I believe at the end of the day what people really care about, what families really care about is how much are they paying out of their pocket, however they have to pay it. So i completely take that answer. I dont think that thats disingenuous. I think, you know, people should see the numbers of how much overall theyre going to have to pay. But i take the point that whether it comes out as taxes or it comes out as something else, people want to know how much are they going to have to pay overall. So she is on to something there. Do you think there are major Foreign Policy distinctions up on that stage tonight in the way that you and your fellow candidates would approach some of the most pressing questions . I felt like i did not hear a ton. It was sort of everyone condemning the president s rash decision to evacuate northeastern syria with the exception of Tulsi Gabbard who is in different place. Do you feel there is a fairly broad consensus . I think there is a lot of consensus there, especially when it comes to syria. And there is also a consensus that this president just doesnt have a strategy, that he has been completely erratic and ineffective on syria, on iran, on china, on a number of other Foreign Policy issues. And thats part of the reason that i think its very clear and there is not much disagreement that hey, we need a different approach. You know, Tulsi Gabbard, congresswoman gabbard articulated a little bit of a different approach, but in the scheme of things, even that wasnt that big. All right. Good to see you. Thank you, mr. Castro. Thank you. Be good. Back to you. Chris hayes, thank you. Over to Steve Kornacki at the big board. Can you help us out with where this race stands right now perhaps . I think there is two ways of looking at it. One is i do this all the time. We get a new National Poll out. Warren, maybe she is three points ahead of biden, maybe biden is still ahead of warren and sanders is in third and nobody else is popping. And that is the story weve been telling nationally in this race. But there is no national primary. We have a series of individual state contests in all the action begins in iowa with those caucuses. And whatever happens in those caucuses, whoever wins, whoever loses has such a big effect from what happen theres. With that in mind, the latest polling out of iowa, this is just a couple of days old, check this out, it looks a little different than what you see nationally. You have biden, warren and sanders, a virtual threeway tie for first place in the leadoff state. By the way, there is somebody else who is popping in iowa. You already mentioned his name. He got a lot of attention tonight on the debate stage. Pete buttigieg is within Single Digits from the lead in iowa right now, 14 . Iowa one of the states where i think in this age of media politics, social media politics, retail politics can still get you somewhere in iowa. These candidates can camp out there, go to the small town hall gefnts. Eight points behind biden and warren. The past models, the candidates who maybe havent been popping nationally, who have broken through in iowa. Im thing of john kerry in 2004. If you looked a at poll in iowa nationally, just a couple of days before iowa, kerry was nowhere to be found. He won the iowa caucuses. Everything else fell into place. You can see four candidates right now who are certainly within contention when it comes to iowa. See what happens to biden out there after tonight. Warren after she came under attack tonight. Sanders with that big news at the end of the debate that aoc is going to endorse him. Buttigieg even before tonight already in contention in iowa that. Is a lot, steve, because when you put it the other way, he is seven points out of the lead in iowa. Yech. Huge number for him. And, you know, you were the first to say he had a good outing. He had a good outing. I think its more the dynamic that chris hayes and others are raising that well be talking about. If Elizabeth Warren is the nominee, might she look to someone who sort of speaks to that centrist angst, that desire to have someone who sort of animates and excites the base of the party but also speaks and not that Elizabeth Warren isnt doing well across the country. She has regional support. But there is i pick up some angst in democratic circles that she might alienate some moderates. I want to before we do that, i have to talk about beto orourke. Oh, yeah. Because we have this you and i have fought about him. We have an exchange cued up that we will discuss after we play it. Here it is. I dont need lessons from you on courage, political or personal. Everyone on this stage is determined to get something done. Everyone on this stage recognizes or at least i thought we did that the problem is not other democrats who dont agree with your particular idea of how to handle this. The problem is the National Rifle association and their enablers in congress, and we should be united in taking the fight to them. So beto orourke 2 to 3 player. The problem he has with the party is at the last debate, he gave the gop their campaign attack ad by saying, yes, we in fact are coming to confiscate your guns. Tonight he went a step further and said in effect an ar15 lawfully purchased in an open carry state should have the ability to walk up to that person carrying openly and take the weapon right then and there because after all, what could go wrong . Well, thats one analysis that is fair. I think the other side is that beto orourke still on that stage because after el paso and after the second mass shooting of the summer in his state, he was seen as channeling the rage and the feeling that we as a country are hunted by automatic weapons. No one doubts his sincerity. And i think the two sides of the beto coin are part of the reason he is on the stage is because he speaks to the anguish of every mom who sends her baby to school at 3 years old and has to go to an active shooter drill. So a lot of us are willing to sort of not rule out the politicians that speak to that rage and that exasperation with the gun debate. But i think the other side of it, as you said, is a very rational and probably correct analysis of where his position huts him and puts the party. And that was the buttigieg position, karine. Weve got win this at the end of the day. So its really interesting, because i was clearly listening to you guys talk about Pete Buttigieg and looking at the polling. A and the way that i see Pete Buttigieg is something that is very common in the Democratic Party, and weve seen it in the past, which is we always see a young fresh face, you know, kind of come up from the party and usually become the nominee. Im not saying he is going to be the nominee. But if you think about clinton, if you think about carter, if you think about obama. So i wonder if thats whats happening . I think i wonder wonder voters are thinking wow, this is someone new. This is an outsider. Hes bringing hes bringing Something Different to this primary. So thats kind of how i see the buttigieg playing in this kind of in this space. I wonder, though, if he is to be in that outside or Something Different role, do you have to have rougher edges than Pete Buttigieg . Do you have to because he speaks in entire fully formed paragraphs. Yeah. And he speaks in language that is always designed to, you know, to encompass people, not to offend people, to bring people along. I think hes tough. I think the paragraphs are so perfectly crafted, and i think the people are tired of the twitter presence. No, absolutely. But i just i just wonder if when people say they want authenticity these days, do they want something rougher and messier and less well informed . I dont know the answer to that. We have to mention that there was only one lapel pin tonight that said math. And it belonged to andrew yang. Standing by with chris hayes. Thank you, brian. There was a long exchange tonight on the universal basic income and automation, which has been sort of a core theme of your campaign. You talk a lot about automation, but im not convinced that the kind of apocalypse you paint is really coming. Weve had all kinds of automation revolutions. High should people be focusing on that when there are so many other issues around the institutional and minimum wage and labor unions and the strength of workers that seem like theyre as important as automation. Well, you certainly shouldnt take my word for it. The obama white house, m. I. T. , mckenzie bean all predict that between 20 to 30 of american jobs are going to be lost to automation over the next 10 to 20 years. In ohio and michigan and wisconsin and iowa. And if that list of states sounds familiar, those are the same States Donald trump needed to win and did win. There is a straight connection between industrialization and voting in that area. Obviously democrats i think feel united in condemning donald trump, but one of the things i think youve seen is a critique that the guy doesnt know what he is doing, he is unprepared and he is insufficiently prepared as with his resume to conduct world affairs. When someone thinks, well, andrew yang is going to be the president sitting on the phone with erdogan, why should they trust that you should be the person doing that . I think people recognize that Foreign Policy and being commander in chief often revolves around your judgment and leadership, and people get a sense of what you would do in that chair. But doesnt experience matter too . Another aspect of whats happening in Foreign Policy, and we can see it with russian hacking of our democracy, the true threats of the 21st century include cyber security, artificial intelligence, things that frankly were going to need the government to play catchup in technology and innovation. And thats what i bring to the table as commander in chief. Andrew yang, good to see you. Good to see you, chris. Back to you guys in new york, brian. Were going to take a break. We have the next candidate lined up to talk us to, and were all walking gingerly around senator mccaskill, who is from missouri, home of the st. Louis cardinals who will not be going to the world series. So sorry. Nationals swept. Back with more right after this. Oh, wow. 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Now you can take control of your home wifi and get a notification the instant someone new joins your network. Only with xfinity xfi. Download the xfi app today. We have to let russia know look, we get it. Weve tampered with other elections. Youve tampered with our elections, and now it has to stop. I dont see a moral equivalency between our country and russia. Vladimir putin is someone who has shot down planes over ukraine, who has poisoned his opponent. We have not talked what we need to do to protect ourselves from russia invading our election. The senator from minnesota credited in this room thus far in our coverage as having a renewed presence on that stage tonight, senator klobuchar standing by with chris hayes. Senator, good to see you. Well, thank you, chris. Its great to be here. Let me follow up on that exchange. I heard what you said about a moral equivalency, but is there any way in which you view is there fear that you have about a kind of train track of confrontation, particularly in the post trump era because of all of the ways in which he is seen to have solicited putin, a kind of overcorrection, the dangers of entanglement or escalating in the places President Trump shouldnt be in . Thats why i think its so important to have someone from day one who is going to change politics, stop the meme tweets. Thats why i put out 100day plan. My reference there to mr. Yang, who i really enjoy a lot, and im glad he is on that debate stage is simply that he literally was making that moral equivalency. I see Vladimir Putin not as our friend but our enemy. And i think it has been a huge mistake for President Trump to coddle him and to have the rest of the world watch while he makes jokes with him when the topic is invasion of our election. So then the question is how do you view a sort of strategy for confrontation or containment or whatever you call it against putin that doesnt also begin to run risks of actual escalation . Exactly. Or military entanglement . The first of it, i said on that stage i want to start renegotiating the Nuclear Agreement with russia that donald trump precipitously got out of. That is one important area we need to work with russia on. There is still business going on between our two countries. Im well aware of that, but the way you do this is when he does things to mess with you like he has done you stand up tall, you call him out for it and you stand with our allies. And that is something that donald trump has failed to do time and time again. There was an exchange you had with senator warren, a number of them, but one about medicare for all and Health Insurance where you said that she was supplying republican talking points. She was talking about essentially take your care away as a republican talking point. You said she was supplying republican talking points. What do you mean by that . What i mean any is the way she always says her way or no way is how it feels every single time. And for me, i think there are other ways you can help people in a big way. Like the public option, like taking on the pharmaceutical companies. But when she questions other democrats and doubts their motives and says theyre not fighting hard enough, ive really had it with that, because especially when she said she was the only one taking on billionaires, and i noted that even the billionaire on the stage was taking on billionaires. I like elizabeth a lot. We serve on leadership together. But simply because we have different views on how to win and how to get things done, which i think is the key, that our work doesnt end on election day, that it begins on Inauguration Day, i dont think she should be taking swipes saying we dont fight hard enough. What do you think about the argument that both bernie bonn and she and others make, those particularly about fundraising, right, there is something sort of fundamentally focus shifting or corrupting about doing high dollar fundraisers with big dollar donors. Well, i am someone who is not taking any money from federal lobbyists, and im not taking any money from pacs. And i think thats very important. Im not sure if everyone on the stage is like there that. Certainly elizabeth. But for me thats fundamental here because weve got to make that point that weve got to put the people first, unlike donald trump thats putting all his cronies first with the tax bill. All right, senator Amy Klobuchar, good to see you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Back to you guys in new york. And sorry, claire, what happened with st. Louis cards. The same thing happened to the twins. Sorry. No, its a different thing. We stayed around longer, amy, than the twins did. Its true. It is one series later. Seriously . We love the twins. The twins are americas team. But claire, i feel for you. Because the exact thing happened to us. See you later. All right. You did good tonight, amy. Well, that was a baseball thrown out with claire going right at it. That was like a bless your heart, no they didnt. [ laughter ] im sorry. Ooh. Dont mess with claire. Sweeping. Two u. S. Senators talking baseball. A break for us. When we come back, were going to hear from mayor Pete Buttigieg and were going to hear from robert costa of the Washington Post, among others. Why do wrinkles happen at the worst times . Showing up here. Here and even here . With new bounce rapid touch up spray, you can fight wrinkles anywhere. 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Part of what makes it possible for the United States to get people to put their lives on the line to back us up is the idea that we will back them up too. I would have a hard time today looking at afghan civilian or soldier in the eye after what just happened over there. And it is undermining the honor of our soldiers. You take away the honor of our soldiers, you might as well go after their body armor next. Wow. One of many emotional moments at this debate tonight. I think i speak for Nicolle Wallace, we would not want to do our respective broadcasts every day and could not without our friends in the print media. And i know who youre about to bring in, so especially him. Among them, robert costa of the Washington Post, and of course the host of Washington Week on your local pbs station. And a nats fan. And a nats fan, where they have swept the st. Louis cardinals. Oh my god, stop we werent swept that is our first defeated . Lets go with defeated, claire. Robert bested . Whats your reporting tonight . Reactions to what we witnessed from ohio . Across my democratic sourcing world, you see a real impression tonight about mayor buttigieg trying to compete for that biden vote, making a case that he is the midwestern candidate, that he can try to consolidate some of those midwestern more centrist voters as Vice President biden faces different challenges right now in the race. Its a lifetime between now in iowa and the New Hampshire primary in american politics. Senator warren, though, as much as she was attacked tonight and how she would pay for medicare for all continues to have a consistent message, economic populism that is really speaking to the grievance about the global economy. Bob costa, Elizabeth Warren was i believe the first or among the first to call for Donald Trumps impeachment. And again, when she got to that tonight, she seemed to just cut through all of the noise. And i think that stands out for anyone watching each candidates individual moments. Were you surprised, though, as a room and as a threehour plus event theyve now got donald trump on the ropes with a parade of witnesses from inside the executive branch testifying to this clearly corrupt quid pro quo of a meeting for the ukrainian president in exchange for dirt on hunter biden. Were you surprised that case wasnt prosecuted more forceful forcefully . For many Democratic Candidates, when you talk to their top strategist, that debate about impeachment, its relatively over. Thats why the first ten, 15 minutes of the debate were quiet. All these Democratic Candidates have generally taken the same position. They support the impeachment inquiry, and i know chairman schiff and Speaker Pelosi are essentially the strategists for the entire party. The fault lines in this Democratic Party are in health care policy, on economic policy, and thats where the battles will be fought in a race thats somewhat isolated from the impeachment battle. Robert costa, again, we wouldnt want to do this without you, and we could not. Thank you very much for contributing yet again tonight from your reporting. Back out to the spin room in ohio we go. Senator harris of california with chris hayes. Thank you, brian. Senator harris, there are a number of times tonight where you brought up reproductive rights. Yes. Reproductive choice. You said something that i heard a number of other folks say about codifying roe into law. Yeah. What do you mean by that . It means not only would it be Supreme Court precedent, not only would it be something that should be enforceable in our court, but it would be enforceable in terms of the law of the land. Like a federal statute . As a federal statute. And in that way we could obviously attach then all of the federal conditions that go on to what we do around state funding and what we do in terms of Public Health funding to make sure that no state legislature can just basically undo the important aspects of roe v. Wade, because be clear about something. The concern that i have is not necessarily that we have to wait for the United States Supreme Court to undo roe v. Wade. Every day in state houses in america, they are whittling away at a womans access to Reproductive Health care. So these women virtually have no access, which is the same as undoing roe v. Wade. So we need to have federal laws in place in addition to the in terms of the constitution that make sure that these states would be penalized if they violate these federal rules. So why does that not happen . You have this democratic debate about marginal change, structural change that would be an enormous political fight. Im not saying thats not worth it, but it would be an enormous fight. I agree with you. Thats why on so many of these issue, ive said im just done, right . On this issue, thats one of them. Because the reality of it is that ive been in the United States senate two and a half years now, and there is very little thats happening there. Theyre getting nothing done. And thats why as president , i am prepared to require that the department of justice would review any law coming out of any state that violates a womans access to Reproductive Health. And if it violates the constitution and roe v. Wade, it does not go into effect. Thats call preclearance. The Voting Rights act model, essentially. Exactly. Youve had an exchange with senator warren about twitter and trump violating the terms of service. Why does that matter . Of all the things, why that . Ask the whistleblower. Ask members of the United States congress. Ask the people who are prepared to testify about this president s lawlessness and obstruction of justice. Ask the people and the families in el paso when that shooter admitted in his manifesto that he was influenced by Donald Trumps tweets. Donald trump has 65 million followers on twitter, and we are to take seriously that the weaponization of this platform by the president and the need therefore of a private corporation to be held accountable to say he has abused the terms. And it could result literally in the threat to safety of human beings who are participating in the process of justice. There is not a part of you civically, constitutionally that is concerned about the precedent of a private company taking the platform away from the president of the United States or some other elected official . Free speech does not condone or protect threats to the safety of other human beings. And so that is what we are talking about. Lets be really clear what were talking about, because this can go into some abstract law school debate. But the reality of it is, were talking about donald trump weaponizing twitter in a way that could result in real consequence, including death. And we have to they can that seriously. Do you think he puts peoples lives in danger when he targets them in tweets . Absolutely. Do you think he knows that . Does it matter . Then you might as well ask me do you think he knows that when he sold out the kurds that theyre going to be slaughtered . The fact is he did it. The fact is that he is irresponsible. He is erratic. He does not he is like a 2yearold with a machine gun. Right . He doesnt understand the power of his words or his actions in way that they will actually impact and could end other human beings lives. So whether he understands it or not, look, he is the president of the United States. I dont actually care where he understands it or not. Because he is he has shown that he is not responsible enough to selfregulate. He has shown he is not responsible enough to edit what he says. And here is the thing but thats a problem bigger than twitter, right . Youve got to deal with one thing at a time. And we can multitask. But im not going to sit here and say he is absolved. Right. From his unfiltered statements as president of the United States with 65 million twitter followers, that hes absolved, because there are other mediums on which he could do it. The reality is its unfiltered direct to the American Public what he speaks on twitter, and he has weaponized his words in a way that could result in harm to other people. And maybe im just kicking in as a former prosecutor, but i know that these real people, including members of congress who have been the target of his threats are in fear of their lives and their safety. And that should be taken seriously, and there should be accountability for that terms of a private corporation that is facilitating it. All right. Senator Kamala Harris of california, good to have you tonight appreciate it. Thank you. Back to you in new york. Interesting conversation there. She is still having a good night. I think she just made that argument even better there than she did on the debate stage, and she made it pretty well on the debate stage. Her point is not abstract. No. Caesar siac, there are people seeking to carry out violence on their most readily access to Donald Trumps words are on his twitter feed. She has been proven her point is an accurate one beyond debate. So i think shes making a defensible point. I also love, love, love that she refuses to lower the bar for donald trump. Should we do more than just this . Well, sure, but reswre to start somewhere. When you look at whats going on, and you look at republicans finally waking up or getting some religion on his conduct or his misconduct around Foreign Policy, the idea that he didnt know what he was doing, and that seems to be the White House Position about the slaughter of americas allies in syria, the kurds, that he just hello, you can imagine him in sweats or something talking to erdogan with nobody listening who understood that he was green lighting a deadly military operation. I think all those points right there are spoton. And i hope if they get down to four or five, she is one of them. I agree. She had a very strong night. We talked about klobuchar. We talked about Pete Buttigieg, but i think harris had a really strong night tonight. I think what we saw from her is, you know we saw her during the kavanaugh hearings and the judiciary committee. And you almost saw that Kamala Harris on stage. With bill barr. With bill barr, and you saw that person on stage tonight. Hopefully she can continue that. Senator we all know people in our lives who have been forced to add security to their lives personally, their homes, their families. Weve seen peoples lives trashed, innocent family Michael Cohens family members were trashed by the president on twitter and on and on and on. Yeah. I think her point is a valid one in that this is a president who has no concern for anyone or anything other than himself. And therefore, he doesnt think about the consequences of what he says and does. And sometimes its a little stuff, like stupid tweets that are mean and inappropriate, and sometimes its really big stuff like the killing of 11,000 of our allies who allowing the killing of our allies who had lost 11,000 people fighting wit isis and letting you know, and i keep making this point because its an important one. The republicans have gone to the mat for 40 people in guantanamo. And the president just let over 10,000 walk out of prison. And they are much more dangerous terrorists than what we have in guantanamo. The people that he allowed to walk out of prison. And by the way, the republicans are now softening their criticism today. Oh, they all started backing down today. We saw that. Because mike pompeo, who sat on the call where trump greenlit the military operation, whats he going to say . Whats he going to say . Right. Because erdogan has already said, you know, im not ever agreeing to a ceasefire, im going to do what i want to do. And syria, erdogan came out and said that as pompeo was on his way over there. So whats the point of this . And i thought that was mayor petes strongest defense tonight. And you know, youre right, eugene, that he is kind of smooth in the way he communicates. Hes not rough around the edges. But theres an eloquence to it. Hes got the eloquence. And i do think that there is some that his eloquence actually is authentic. I think he is its a little bit like barack obama. That barack obama had an ability when he was speaking, especially in speeches, to kind of soar and inspire people. And i think mayor pete may do that. And listen no, look nobody had a really bad night tonight. I want to say that. Nobody had a really bad night tonight. Elizabeth, while she was you know, was getting atacked, it was tough for her, but she does really well at making her point. She stuck to her message. Eugene, i owe you. Beto orourke standing by with chris hayes. Brian, thanks. Congressman, there was an exchange tonight around mandatory gun buybacks for assaultstyle, militarystyle weapons. The argument that some made there including Pete Buttigieg among others is why would you inject this into something i think buttigieg said were so close, the American People are with us, this is a 6040 issue or a 6530 issue or 7030 issue. Why would you take a 7030 issue and turn into a 3070 issue . First i dont buy the premise of the argument. When i listen to my fellow americans they get the logic that if an ar15 and ak47 is dangerous osell because its a weapon of war that is devastatingly effective at killing people, then we shouldnt allow 16 million of them to exist out on the streets. Every single one of them a potential instrument of terror. And for what its worth they just polled this in texas and 49 of texans in that proud i would argue responsible gunowning state believe that we should have a mandatory buyback. Only 36 oppose. But chris, just imagine if we were constrained by the polls on health care or immigration or in 1964 the Civil Rights Act or in 65 the Voting Rights act. Leadership is about doing the right thing when you have the opportunity to do the right thing. And with 40,000 People Killed in this country every year through gun violence it is time for us to do the right thing. Ive heard you mention that 40,000. Right . But just so folks are clear, about 30,000, 28,000 of those are suicides or selfinflicted. Theres about 10,000 to 12,000 that a are a combination of homicide and xntsaccidents. And the vast majority of those are not the kinds of weapons youre talking about. What do you say to this that is essentially symbolic culture war politics . Say that to anyone who lost somebody in midland odessa or Sutherland Springs or Santa Fe High School or el paso, texas where 22 were killed or memmel garcia whos in the hospital tonight whos had more than 30 surgeries and is going to be there for a very long time. In addition, every one of those guns is a potential instrument of terror. Kids are terrified to go to school. People in texas terrified to go out in public especially if theyre mexicanamerican. So these challenges and the solutions to them are not mutually exclusive. On handguns having universal background checks, red flag laws. On assault weapons banning their sale, buying them back, having a National Gun Registry and a licensing system in america. Lets do all of it. Lets not take half steps or half measures or only involve half the country. This has got to be all of us on every issue before us. Guns, climate, immigration, health care, the economy. Lets not be fearful, lets not govern bit polls. Lets do whats right. Mayor buttigieg at one point said to you i dont need to you question my courage physical or political. I dont question petes courage. In fact, i think hes an amazing guy. But i do question his political courage. When he talks about being constrained or governed by those polls. When what is right is so clear and obvious before us. And when there are inspiring Young Leaders like march for our lives who have survived this, who understand it, and whove laid out a peace plan that makes so much sense. And when americans hear it they get behind it. So i think, again, leadership and courage in the political arena is doing the right thing and saying the right thing regardless of the polling consequences to that. All right. Former congressman beto orourke of el paso, texas. Great to have you here. Really appreciate it. Gracias. Thank you, congressman. Thank you, chris hayes in the spin room. Careen jeanpierre whose services we lose at the end of this hour, the realists watching at home are going to say things like with what congress . So this is the tough part with beto orourke. We have to remember this summer in his state he saw two mass shootings. Absolutely. No one doubts the intellectual and emotional sincerity. That is what hes leading with. In his own home town, right . He saw people die. And he had to comfort them. And that kind of gave another boost to his campaign because he let it all go. He called out the media and he was cursing, using very blunt language. And i think thats just the place that hes coming from. And he has to go back into his community and still deal with the folks who are mourning. And so i think that we just have to kind of see where he is coming from. Its incredibly authentic and its very real and hes using his platform right now in a national way. Thank you for using your voice in a national way and helping us out as part of our country tonight. Thank you. Great to see you as always. Thank you. Another break for us. Well come back at the top of the hour, start this all over again. We have candidates to hear from in ohio and folks around here. We want to talk to as well. Wanl i get it all the time. Have you lost weight . Of course i have ever since i started renting from national. Because national lets me lose the wait at the counter. And choose any car in the aisle. And i dont wait when i return, thanks to drop go. At national, i can lose the wait. And keep it off. Looking good, patrick. I know. vo go national. Go like a pro. Do you recall, not long ago we would walk on the sidewalk all around the wind blows we would only hold on to let go blow a kiss into the sun we need someone to lean on blow a kiss into the sun we needed somebody to lean on all we need is someone to lean on oh you got a fast one there just cant get him to slow down this class will help with that we get it. You got it were petsmart and we welcome you back as we cross the top of yet another hour. And so begins day 1,000 wow. You say that every night. Of the Trump Administration. Im Brian Williams along with Nicolle Wallace as we hope is obvious and were continuing our coverage of tonights fourth democratic president ial debate. The first debate since the democrats opened their impeachment inquiry on the hill. The largest president ial primary debate ever with 12 candidates. Health care among the topics of tonights debate. Mayor pete wasted no time clashing with senator warren on that issue. Your signature, senator, is to have a plan for everything. Except this. No plan has been laid out to explain how a multitrilliondollar hole in this medicare for all plan that senator warren is putting forward is supposed to get filled in. And the thing is we really can deliver health care for every american and move forward with the boldest, biggest transformation since the inception of medicare itself. But the way to do it without a giant multitrilliondollar hole and without having to avoid a yes or no question is medicare for all who want it. We take a version of medicare, we let you access it if you want to, and if you prefer to stay on your private plan you can do that too. So lets be clear. Whenever someone hears the term medicare for all who want it, understand what that really means. Its medicare for all who can afford it. We can pay for this. Ive laid out the basic principles. Costs are going to go up for the wealthy. Theyre going to go up for big corporations. They will not go up for middleclass families and i will not sign a bill into law that raises their costs because costs are what people care about. Ive been studying this, you know, for the biggest part thank you, senator. Can the mayor we have plenty of help in covering tonights debate. In westerville, ohio, oughtenbien university, to talk to candidates in the spin room, the host all in on this Network Chris hayes is with us. Joining us in the studio Claire Mccaskill former democratic senator from the state of missouri. Just dont mention baseball. Eugene collins, Pulitzer Prizewinning columnist. Zpluk talk to him about baseball. With our helps to Karine Jeanpierre for helping out in our coverage earlier tonight. We are so excited to welcome to our first table alicia menendez, a veteran of pbs and fusion and Huffington Post but most importantly the new host of her soon to be named weekend broadcast on this very network. And at the big board for us tonight as usual our National Correspondent Steve Kornacki. Welcome, gang. Alicia, you get to go first. Your view of the lead story and the debate you that watched tonight. There is a big question in this field and i think its very easy to make it krld jikal and say its the moderates versus the progressives but i think its this bigger question of approach and whether or not change can be made inside the system or whether or not there needs to be radical change made outside of the system. One of the things that i think looking back to 2016 is we would do these focus groups in the general election and there were so many voters who were really just brought to the table and energized by the appeal that senator sanders had made in 2016 who were not motivated in the general election because they did not feel that same sense of a political revolution. So i think the challenge for democrats is how they harness that energy and keep that energy regardless of who their nominee is. And Claire Mccaskill, thats kind of a transference of energy, exactly the dynamic alicia was just talking about. That if you loved bernie please also try love our nominee. Yeah. I understand, and its a good point that she makes about that. The difference between this time and 2016, though, is important to note. And that is we have donald trump. And we did not have donald trump in 2016. There was not an incumbent that most democrats, regardless of who theyre supporting in this nominating process, cant wait to vote against. And that enthusiasm is going to be there no matter who our nominee is. And i think well come together. Whether the nominee is bernie or whether its elizabeth or whether its joe or mayor pete or any of the other candidates, we will come together i think as a party around that candidate because of what donald trump represents to most people who have ever thought about calling themselves a democrat. Gene, it makes me wonder how central this sort of fight thing is, the i agree with what alicia and claire have said, but then that thrusts to the top of the list the fighter. Who did you see tonight that would be the best fighter against donald trump, who fights dirty, who is asymmetrical, who has three kids who are profiting and theyre outrageous attacking someone elses son who isnt known to have done anything wrong. How do you run against the audacity of donald trump . Who is the person who speaks to that . Scl i think theyve all in their way tried to show that they would fight donald trump, that they would stand on the debate stage. Amy klobuchar was very tough tonight it and snappy and zappy. So you can see her standing next to trump. Kamala harris has that prosecutor thing that she does, that she did so well against joe biden in that first debate. You could see several of them i guess in their way taking the fight troup. One question the trump fact leads me to, though, is whether the electorate is more or less risk averse this time. You know . Because talk about risk. Right . Its relentless, its every day, its too much. So will a substantial number of voters be looking for something safer and more boring . Our job is just to ask really hard questions around here. Ditto chris hayes who is standing by with senator booker of the great state of new jersey. All right. Thank you, brian. Senator, you talked a number of times tonight about sort of the tone, your concern about the tone. But isnt it the case that primaries are messy and political, you know, politicians want to make arguments against each other and part of the primary process is having it out . I think so. We should have it out on policy. I have a lot of differences with my fellow primary folks from everything like gun licensing all the way to having a bold plan on criminal justice reform. But we have to do it in a way that learns from the lessons of last time. This is not going to be an election any of us can win alone. We need to unify this party and the way we talk about people we have to be careful because it says more about what kind of leader were going to be than theyre going to be. What were the lessons of last time . There were a lot of lessons of last time. Mitt romney excuse me, donald trump got about the same number of votes as mitt romney. And we shellacked mitt romney. Fewer than mitt romney. There was something wrong with us having all democrats all hands on deck all activated to stop this Dumpster Fire that is the presidency of donald trump. If were going to beat him this time we need the kind of leader that can excite and engage the Democratic Party and reach out to moderates on the other side of the aisle. You talked about in the last question a sort of crossideological or crosspolitical friendship. You talked about something youve talked about a lot before, youve made a habit of cultivating these friendships in skramz inhofe and ted cruz. Does it matter with the polarization being what it is, do those personal relationships matter . And if the answer is yes, how much . First of all as a guy whos actually gotten big bills done like criminal justice reform, the first step act, i had to work across the aisle. Regardless of who the president is, unlikely to have 60 votes in the senate, im going to work for that. But youre going to have to find ways to create crossparty coalitions and unify the American Public because thats how we got civil rights legislation over the longest filibuster ever before, which was strom thurmond, by creating new american coalitions. We have to have a leader who is can appeal to the moral imagination of this nation and find ways to get things done across the aisle but does it matter tough difrn with ted cruz . Former Vice President joe biden i think makes a similar argument, i know these people and i have relationships there and i can go in there and grease the wheels and get stuff done. Anybody that knows washington the people that get things done are people that know how to build coalitions and relationships that are bigger than just one party. Were not going to be able to move this country forward in the way that we need to to do the big things on climate change, the big things on driving down prescription drugs. Even infrastructure. Broadband access. Environmental justice. Awful these things necessitate a person that can build new coalitions that dont exist right now. That means fighting hard in campaigns. If im 9 nominee im going to go to states that people wont expect me because i know weve got to pick up a senate seat in georgia, a senate seat in north carolina. Im going to go all over this country to build the Democratic Party better than anybody, but you have to have relationships across the aisle ultimately. And im good at that. Its whats made me an effective senator. Its whats going to make me an effective president. Senator cory booker of new jersey. Good to have you. Thank you very much. Good to see you. Good to see you too. Senator, did you bring a plus one to ohio or are you just rolling the way you normally roll . Shameless. Shameless. Weve got a couple of us here from new jersey tonight. Hey, listen, we have a competition on corybooker. Com to have dinner with the two of us. So you could actually win that competition if you donate five bucks. Touche. You got me back. Senator, thank you very much. I just figured alicias from new jersey, im from new jersey. Kind of evens up can i get your dig on since i got fired from the view you thought you had to tell me who that was . I was just helping i knew. Thanks. Steve kornacki has prepared a segment for us that rides on this as one of the moments we witnessed on stage tonight. This will all make sense in about 30 seconds. Now to the issue of candidates and their health. Senator sanders, i want to start with you. I want to start were moving on, senator. Im sorry. Im healthy. Im feeling great. But i would like to respond to that question. Let me take this moment if i might to thank so many people from all over this country including many of my colleagues up here for their love, for their prayers, for their well wishes. And i just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. And im so happy to be back here with you this evening. So thats when the notion, the question of age was injected into tonights debate. And Steve Kornacki has been gathering on said facts. In this campaign, this Democratic Campaign really is an interesting test when it comes to age and things we havent really tested before, the three leading Democratic Candidates you saw Bernie Sanders there. Joe biden, Elizabeth Warren, the top three in polling, all would be over 70 years old on Inauguration Day if they were sworn in as president and two of them if they served out their first term as president , sanders and biden, would be over 80 years old. This countrys never had a president over 80 years old. Its a question how much is this on the mind of democratic voters. What do they actually think of age as an issue . Some new polling data we can show you. Its not quite a National Poll. This is from all the early states. About 18 different states. Its a pretty broad mix. This is a pretty good poll here to look at on this question. So start with Elizabeth Warren. She would be 71 years old on Inauguration Day if shes sworn in. Democratic voters were asked is ha too old . How many said so . 4 said Elizabeth Warren at 71 would be too old. How about the next democratic candidate . Considerably older. Hed be 78 on Inauguration Day. Remember, the oldest president in history so far, Ronald Reagan was a couple of weeks shy of 78 when he left office. Biden would come in at 78. How Many Democrats say that is too old . Look at that number jumps to 28 . More than 1 out of 4. And then of course Bernie Sanders is older still. 79 years old on Inauguration Day. And coming off this heart attack, this poll was conducted after that. How many say that Bernie Sanders is too old . That number climbs all the way to 43 . Again, this is democrats in the early stage. Now, heres the interesting thing. If you look at biden and you look at sanders where those numbers are high among democrats and take it a step further and you ask democrats what specifically is it about their age to gives you pause about them . This is somewhat interesting. When it comes to biden the democrats who say they do think hes too old, why is he too snoeld about 36 say because his age would make it too difficult for him to do the job. 54 say his age just makes him out of touch. 10 say hes been in politics too long. How about for Bernie Sanders . Very different, actually. Very different reaction. Too difficult to do the job, 82 who are worried about Bernie Sanders age say that is their specific concern about his age. Only 10 , look, compared to 54 , say hes out of touch. 8 say hes been in too long. Just a very interesting situation. I cant theyve a single race for president in either party where the three frontrunners were all over 70 years old. And you can see theres some very different attitudes among democrats when it comes to these candidates and their ages. Fascinating stuff as always. Steve, thank you for that. And nicolle, weve talked about this, that its a fine line between straight up ageism and the questions people are allowed to ask because we are the consumers here. Yeah, i worked for a candidate who was a cancer survivor. John mccain. He was a cancer survivor, skin cancer. There were a lot of questions about his age and his health. It was a different time. We disclosed everything. Sanjay gupta came down to arizona. We went through just a totally different time. Donald trump basically turned the white house doctor into a show and lied about his weight. Were in such a different place. I think polling on this will be an interesting thing to watch because i think when you see American Allies getting slaughtered in the middle east the wisdom card becomes a more important one to be able to play and no one gets to play it the way joe biden gets to play it. And i think his answer tonight, i was just looking at the transcript, Vice President biden, if youre elected youll turn 80 during your first term. Last month jimmy carter said he could not have undertaken the duties of the presidency at 800 years old. Why are you sure youre can . And biden says because i watched, it i know what the jobs ive been engaged. Look, one of the reasons im running is because of my age and my experience. With it comes wisdom. And if theres one thing that whomever the democrats settle on can take to the entire electora electorate, its wisdom. I just put a 6 in front of my age. Im big on wisdom suddenly. But eugene, this is in the eye of the beholder. No, it is. And thats why those numbers are really, really fascinating because its about peoples lived experience of age. Thats what i think people are basing this estimation on. And 70 today isnt what 70 was 70 years ago. Thank god. Thank god. Right. People are a lot healthier, a lot longer in their life. People exercise, people eat right. People are able to go on much longer. But by the same token people survive heart attacks and go on to live long lives. And Everybody Knows somebody whos had a heart attack. And so people may be basing their view of Bernie Sanders ability to do the job on their experience of a friend or relative who had a recent heart attack. And they may see, you know, uncle fred wouldnt be up to this in that state, having had a recent heart attack. That may be the way people are thinking. But i do think from personal experience it touches us all. We all get older. It was an issue on stage before cnn asked it as a question. Its something i think everyone was thinking about. Well, and i think maybe bernies heart attack sort of brought it out. It did. It made it an issue issue. But i think the truth is the top three candidates are all the three oldest candidates. And the person the top four candidates if you count the president. Exactly. Theyd be running against the president in his 70s. Youve got president that is older than elizabeth but slightly younger than biden and bernie. So the top four people that are competing for this the most difficult absolute exhausting job on the planet are all in their 70s. And at the same time you have a slate of very young candidates. You have gabbert. You have buttigieg, you have booker, you have castro, all of whom could claim the mantle of a younger, next generation of leadership. And what i found so interesting whenever buttigieg he invoked it two, maybe three times tonight. Where he said growing up i watched what they did in washington and it didnt work. Which is clearly meant to be a generational argument. But you almost expect the pivot there to be i watched what you did, it didnt work so, lets blow it up. And thats not it. Its i watched what you did, it didnt work, and so were going to thread the needle and try to actually focus on results and getting things done rather than a pure ideological mold. And i wonder if that actually appeals to young people. Thats a great question. I dont know that it does. But i dont what im trying isnt bernie the most popular with young people . Yes. What is blowing it up, though . Well, trumps blowing it up. Trump is definitely blowing it up. But what would be blowing it up with elizabeth and bernie . That would that look like . Will they talk about that at some point, do you think . I think you can answer that by saying blowing is up is getting rid of the fill buffetter and then theres a very different interpretation of blowing it up. I was on the trail with andrew yang and i was struck by how many young people were coming to his events and really saw this answer he gives about universal basic income as being a path forward. And he was bringing in such a crosssection of voters with that one answer because i think they like the elegance and simplicity of that. Do you think they realize it wont happen . Its a great discussion. Thats the thing. Unless we blow up the constitution. You know, its going to be very difficult unless we to take the senate. But even if we took the senate theres going to be democrats in there that are from states that arent going to go for universal income. So its the possible versus the inspiring. These senators are always raising things the other piece of that is theyre not reliable voters. Young voters are the least reliable voters. Its that leftright axis. Doesnt work anymore. You answer the emails anyway. Coming up on 20 minutes after the hour. Another break for us. There are still some major big name candidates we havent heard from from the spin room. Well go to there when we come back. Let me be clear on this. Costs will go up for the wealthy. They will go up for big corporations. And for middleclass families they will go down. I will not sign a bill into law that does not lower costs for middleclass families. And nigh, and nigh, keeping me from the things i love to do. Talk to your doctor, and call 8442142424. Ds ds government by and for all the people not just the powerful and wellconnected. Thats the american promise. But big corporations and special interests are in control. Nothings happening for real people. Our democracy has been purchased. The candidates running for president have great ideas. But we cant get anything done unless we make our democracy serve the people again. Im tom steyer. I approve this message. Im running for president because its time our democracy works for people. Here, hello starts with hi mple. How can i help . A data plan for everyone. Everyone . Everyone. Lets send to everyone [ camera clicking ] wifi up there . Ahhh. Sure, why not . Howd he get out . a camera might figure it out. That was easy glad i could help. At xfinity, were here to make life simple. Easy. Awesome. So come ask, shop, discover at your xfinity store today. This president has ripped the soul out of this country. A liar. He cheats. Every candidate here is more decent, more coherent, and more patriotic than the criminal in the white house. You donald trump are not on the side of women. Trump is the most corrupt president in the history of this country. Dude got to go. And when i am commander in chief, we will stop this madness. So well take that as a no on trump from the democrats on the stage tonight. Welcome back to our coverage. Steve kornacki, what about a general election . And the incoming we know would be incoming. Thats the interesting thing. Everybody knows what a campaign with donald trump looks like. So one of the things i think democratic voters are looking at is trying to size these candidates up. You know what trumps going to throw at them. How do each of these candidates look like theyd be able to handle . And in fact some interesting polling we were mentioning. We were mentioning our friends at cbs. Polled the states of democratic voters and they asked those three frontrunners, biden, sanders, warren, how do you think they would hold up against attacks from donald trump . Check this out. Biden, democratic voters here, how do you think hed hold up . 50 said they thought hed fare very well. 35 somewhat well. 15 said they didnt think hed hold up that well at all. Thats biden. How does that compare to the other candidates . How about Elizabeth Warren . Look at that. 65 of democrats in these early states, again, 18 different early states, 65 , about 2 3 said they think warren would hold up very well. Another 28 somewhat. Another 6 not very well. Bernie sanders what was the verdict on him from democrats . 60 . In the middle basically. 60 very well, 31 somewhat. 9 not very well. Couple different ways of reading these numbers. Certainly when i looked at this poll that warren number jumped out at me. Maybe a little surprising. Would love to expand that by one more category and poll test mayor pete on a fourth wing of that. The interesting thing to me too, and i know just enough about polls to be dangerous with them is if you add the first two categories democrats feel like all these candidates could beat trump. The numbers of people who wouldnt fare well, biden was 15 and warren to your earlier point the democrats are going to rally behind whomever it is and take the fight to trump. I think so. Its also why i think theres a meta debate happening in each of these debates, should we be attacking each other, should we not be attacking each other . Like they cant quite 12k50id. I have to argue that its good for them. Right . It is good to see how theyre each able to weather these attacks because if you cant handle fire coming from a democratic opponent then it is going to be very hard to debate with donald trump. Do you draw the line at afacting barack obama and his administration as we saw in that first debate . I interesting. I think that remember that . Yes, no, i do remember it. And it create someday very awkward moments. And i think part of what youve seen is you have not seen as much of that since. Right . That did not seem to be a winning strategy. Fair. And if anything tonight you had that exchange with warren and with biden where he attempted to take some credit for the cfpb and she instead handed that credit over but that she looks small in that exchange, actually. Because she couldnt biden standing there and she couldnt say thank you to him. And he complimented her. Exactly, biden complimented her. Great job. Pro tip. Barack obamas more popular in the Democratic Party than any of these people. And so dont attack him. You know . That would be a stupid thing to do. We came into that segment with candidates talking about Foreign Policy. Just an interesting thing from the debate. You know, i think if i was sitting in a foreign capital and watching this, i would say neither of the great parties in the United States has a consistent idea about u. S. Foreign policy and intervention overseas and the use of the military and where it should be, and i would say i have no idea what this country thats the greatest military power in the world believes about that anymore. You used to think the Republican Party was more in favor of that kind of intervention tough on russia. Tough on russia. All of that. Cold warriors. But now its Donald Trumps party and so it doesnt believe in that anymore. And then you heard the democrats who are supposed to be the peacenik party. You know, all calling for bringing the troops home, yet criticizing donald trump for doing that. He obviously did it in the wrong way. He did it, you know, in a way that no one could countenance or support or no one with any sense. And its going to end up in the massacre of the kurds. But nonetheless, you get down to the fundamental policy, its not to have what tulsi not to fight what Tulsi Gabbert called these regime change wars and others called endless wars or whatever. In london or paris or moscow, you know, id say make up your mind. What are you going to do with the most powerful military in the world . Are you going to use it . How are you going to use it . Great point from a guy who knows his way around foreign capitals i might add. Another break for us. When we come back were going to talk about advances in the impeachment story that actually took place while we were all watching the debate. And of course we saw the former Vice President talk about his son hunter who was on cable this morning. All of it when we come back. All of it when we come back. My son did nothing wrong. I did nothing wrong. I carried out the policy of the United States government in rooting out corruption in ukraine. And thats what we should be focusing on. Focusing on. Focusing on. The old dogs. The deaf, blind, the different. Subaru presents the underdogs. These shelter dogs still love unconditionally. Theyre just hoping to find their human, who does too. To help, subaru is establishing National Make a dogs day to ask you to please consider adopting an underdog, or do something extraspecial for your dog. Do your asthma symptoms ever hold you back . About 50 of people with severe asthma have too many cells called eosinophils in their lungs. Eosinophils are a key cause of severe asthma. Fasenra is designed to target and remove these cells. Fasenra is an addon injection for people 12 and up with asthma driven by eosinophils. Fasenra is not a rescue medicine or for other eosinophilic conditions. Fasenra is proven to help prevent severe asthma attacks, improve breathing, and can lower oral steroid use. Fasenra may cause allergic reactions. Get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth, and tongue, or trouble breathing. Dont stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. Tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens. Headache and sore throat may occur. Havent you missed enough . Ask an asthma specialist about fasenra. If you cant afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. Welcome back. As we cover this first debate, since the formal impeachment inquiry began, there are multiple developments on that front tonight we wanted to update you on some of the stories that broke while we were all watching the debate. Lawmakers heard from yet another witness from the inside, and in this case today and tonight inside the state department. He is george kent, senior official in charge of ukraine policy. The gentleman there in the bowtie. He spent more than 10 hours behind closed doors. The Washington Post reports that kent testified the white house sidelined him and assigned ukraine policy instead to a triumvirate, Energy Secretary rick perry, former trump donor and ambassador to the eu gordon sondland, and onetime special envoy to ukraine kurt volker, who called themselves the three amigos. Also tonight the New York Times reports the white house has started a socalled internal review of that july 25 phone call between trump and the president of ukraine, that it focuses on the decision to move the transcript into a top secret storage system. This will be interesting to watch. Meanwhile, trump personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani is defying the lawmakers subpoena for documents. Also defying subpoenas, Vice President mike pence, omb director russell vogt, and the pentagon. However, former texas republican congressman Pete Sessions is cooperating with the subpoena. From the justice departments manhattan office, the Southern District of new york. Its in connection with its investigation into giulianis Ukraine Business dealings and alleged involvements in efforts to oust the u. S. Ambassador. Amid all of this Speaker Pelosi will be at the white house tomorrow to be a fly on the wall. Shell attend a bipartisan meeting with other congressional leaders to talk about, are you ready, turkeys invasion of syria. It is the exact opposite of what covering the Mueller Probe was like where it was so opaque. There were 23 months where we really didnt know what the leads were. This is almost i call it a puppy cam investigation. We are watching the whole thing unfold. And there are three forces now bearing down on donald trump. Id add a fourth with a New York Times story about an internal review in the white house about that server. Theres an investigation out of sdny. They sent Michael Cohen to jail, they named donald trump an unindicted coconspirator. As raich woll say, watch this space. Theres a congressional inquiry that has enjoyed a parade of witnesses. I was told by a source close to fiona hill who was a bolton deputy, the First White House west wing adviser to def in this probe, that part of what they worked out and part of the reason she showed up, was to break the dam for west wing advisers to be able to show up on capitol hill. And then there is growing anxiety inside sort of the trump appointee land. Gordon sondlands going to be on capitol hill this week. Hes got a lot of exposure and he has a lot of questions to answer for. And the problem with the white house is this. Unlike so much of the mueller report, understandable, simple. Weve seen what passes for the transcript. People can follow this story. Ive just been told Elizabeth Warren is standing by with chris hayes in ohio. Hey there, guys. Senator warren, good to have you here. Good to be here. Theres an exchange toward the end of that debate with former Vice President joe biden about the cfpb which you were working on. He said something to the effect of i went to the senate and got you those votes. Uhhuh. How do you remember his role in the cfpb . So if thats what Vice President biden says i take him at his word on that. You know, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau was an idea that a lot of people said dont even try because you will never get it past the banks, youll never get it past the republicans. There will be a lot of democrats who will fight you on this. But i really believed after the crash this was our chance to get an agency that would make sure that people didnt get cheated by these giant financial institutions. And particularly because the people who are often targeted were seniors. They were people of color. They were our military. And the agency has been able to continue to respond and push back. And its already forced these banks to return about 12 billion directly to people they treated. The one of the sort of recurring themes tonight and exchanges with other people is a feeling, and i think senator klobuchar said this, that in talking about kind of need for structural change, not raising big money with big dollar donors, that youre fundamentally kind of impugning either the motives or the vision of the other candidates. Right . They want to say look, we agree on the problems, we disagree on the solutions, it doesnt mean im some sort of sellout. What do you say to that . I think its the case that nearly everybody on that stage has said they wont take corporate pac money. Which tells me that everybody on that stage knows that it matters where your money comes from. I made the decision when i decided to run for president that i was going to run a different kind of campaign. Wait a second, though. As senator you didnt make that decision. And you raised a lot of money and you had a lot of cash on hand, which people point out, that helped you as you moved over into the president ial. And people say look, you were fine to take the big dollar donations then and have the cash on hand and discover this new position while running for president. Actually, its a little different than that. I raised 20 million in small dollar donations when i was up for reelection in 2018, and i gave away or directly raised 11 million for democrats all around this country because i really want to support the team. I want to see us win, not just at the top of the ticket but up and down the ticket. And yeah. I had enough money left over that i put money into any campaign. But look, Everybody Knows i made the decision when i decided to run that i was going to run a different kind of campaign. I was not going to spend my time sucking up to Corporate Executives and to big dollar donors. Instead ive been to 27 states and puerto rico and i have done i think its 140 town halls now and taken tens of thousands of selfies because thats what you can do if youre spending your time building a grassroots movement. The argument on the other side, and i think Vice President biden says this and mayor pete to a certain extent, is that you will be outgunned. Right . And you came on my show when you made this announcement. I asked you on that program, are you going to do this for the general . And you said something to the dp effect of youve just got to fight with every possible thing you can get and so yes, i will raise high dollar donors, i will do, you know, fundraisers. Youve changed your mind on that. So look, the way i see this, im going to keep running my campaign exactly the way ive run it from the very beginning. And that is im going to do it through grassroots donations all across this country. Im also going to continue to help the party. Ive helped the party in the past because i think its powerfully important that we elect democrats. I believe in the state parties. And i want to see the state parties rebuilt. Not just five or ten of them. I made contributions to all 50 state parties when i was up for reelection. Because i wanted to help every single one of them. I think thats how were going to build a grassroots movement. And heres the deal. Not only is it going to be our comparative advantage come 1220 but it is actually still going to be there come january of 2021 and we need that outside pressure to hold Congress Accountable and to make real change. So i want to go back to an exchange that youre going to get asked a lot about and im sure youve already talked about. Going back to this exchange about taxes and costs. Okay . I get that you did not recognize some met aphysical distinction between the part of your paycheck that comes out for the premium and the part that comes out for payroll taxes. Doesnt matter. Still coming out of the paycheck. Costs are what matters. That said, anytime i watch a politician say the same thing four times in a row i feel like some ball is being hidden from me. Right . Like do you understand like is the idea that you dont want to give a line for an attack ad . No. The idea is this is where i spent a big part of my life, and its studying, talking about doing the research on why middleclass families go broke. And one of the principal answers is they go broke over medical costs. And back when i was studying this, two out of every three families that filed for bankruptcy in the aftermath of a serious medical problem had Health Insurance. What worries me are people like the woman i met out in nevada a couple of weeks ago. She described it as she had the goldplated premier Health Insurance. Fabulous. Right up until the treatment she needed to save her life was going to cost 125,000. You know what her Insurance Company said . No. Wasnt one of the promises of the Affordable Care act that that practice would stop . But it hasnt. It is the work of the Insurance Companies to find every way they can to go around it. And thats what they have done. So i meet family after family that thought they had full Insurance Coverage right up until they turned out not to be profitable for the Insurance Company. You know, the Insurance Companies last year made tens of billions of dollars in profit. And you have to stop and ask, how did they do that . And the answer was one word. That they used over and over. That word was no. No. To the doctor you actually want to see. No to the specialist. No to that prescription. Oh, sorry, your deductible is higher than you thought it was, so no, were not going to cover this. The copay is too high. Families are still going broke across this country because they cant afford their health care costs. I want to go to new york. Nicolle wallace. We have Brian Williams. Nicolle wallace among others. Nicolle, of a question for the senator . Senator, the smart part of this interview is over. The the former political operative in me wants to know dont need republicans to vote for you to win the priernl certainly and probably not the general but do you want them . Of course i do. I was born and raised in oklahoma. I have three older brothers who all served in the military. Two of them are still republicans. And by golly, i want their votes. Do you think if freaks any republicans out that not only is medicare for all in republican world feel like taking something we might like but that you didnt really seem to give a straight answer on it . Does it worry you at all for a general election should you be the nominee . Im not worried about talking to American Families across this country about their health care costs. We all know. No one disputed it on that stage. Medicare for all is the lowest cost alternative to make sure that everybody gets covered. And heres the thing that i see over and over and over. Because ive gone not just to blue states. Those 27 states and puerto rico ive been to. Ive been to blue states, ive been to red states. Ive been to kermit, West Virginia that calls itself the reddest of the red. Ive been down south. Ive been out west. People get it. This country is working great for giant Insurance Companies. Its working great for giant Oil Companies that want to drill everywhere. Its working great for people who want to invest in private prisons. Its working great for a thinner and thinner slice at the top. Its just not working for them. And this is our chance in 2020. Ive got a giant anticorruption bill to beat back the influence of money because thats the problem weve got in washington. When you see a government that works great for those with money and isnt working for much of anyone else, its corruption pure and simple. We need to call it out for what it is. And then weve got to have a plan to fight back against it. Thats what i got. Senator warren, you are probably the deepest of all of the Democratic Candidates in terms of policy and specificity and i see people wait online hours and hours, four hours in new york to talk about them. Do you worry that in a general election youll wind up running against someone like donald trump whose slowing sxn strategy amounts to youre a poopoo head, youre a do you worry that the coming down of a general election against donald trump may deprive you of your greatest strength . No, actually, i dont at all. Im serious when i say theres a lot that unites us. My two brothers who are republican, the one who isnt, all four of us, we care about our kids. We care about people being able to retire with dignity. We care about some basic values in this country. And by the way, we also, all four of us, and this is true for a majority of not just democrats but also republicans, think we ought to pass a wealth tax. And that the top. 1 of 1 . Once youre above 50 million in assets, on your 50 millionth and first dollar you could pitch in two cents. And thats what would let us pay for universal child care, for universal prek, raise the wages of every Child Care Worker and preschool teacher in america. Universal college. 50 billion for historically black colleges and universities. And cancel Student Loan Debt for 95 of the folks whove got it. I think the way to beat donald trump is to talk about the things that touch peoples lives. And thats what were doing as democrats. We are on the right side in this fight. Weve goot t to call out the corruption. Talk about structural change in this economy. Giving more power to our unions, to our workers. Weve got to put in place a wealth tax. Weve got to bring down the cost of housing. We can do those things. And we have to protect our democracy. Thats what were going to do. Were going to get out there and fight for it. And were going to get votes from both democrats and republicans. Hey, senator, one last question, then well let you go. And it has to do with our lead story tonight. We had to kind of come up with what the lead story was. And i see a lot of our colleagues in print journalism concur, and the lead story was Elizabeth Warren for the first time took incoming fire from just about everybody at a democratic debate. First of all, i know you must have been ready for it. But the question is did it make you feel like the frontrunner tonight . And its never fun after all, is it . You know, the way i look at this is im out here fighting for what i believe in. And its a great honor to have this opportunity. When i get a chance to talk to millions of people across this country about universal child care, when i get a chance to talk about canceling Student Loan Debt, i am just grateful down to my toes for that opportunity. I spent a huge amount of my life watching how americas middle class was being hollowed out, watching how people who work every bit as hard as my mother worked two generations ago today find the path so much rockier and steeper, and for people of color even rockier and even steeper. And the reason for that is they no longer have a government on their side. The government has been captured. So that it is on the side of the wealthy and the well connected. But here is the enormously optimistic news. Weve got a chance to change that in 2020 and folks are coming off the sidelines to get this done. I believe that this is our moment in history and that weve got a chance to turn this country in a much better direction to be the country of our best values. Elizabeth warren, senator from massachusetts, thank you so much for taking our questions. Thank you. Chris hayes, thank you as well. A quick break and our coverage will come back and discuss right after this. 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The fact of the matter is you have russia influencing and trying to break up nato. What does the president do . He says i believe Vladimir Putin, i believe Vladimir Putin, i dont believe our intelligence people still like to see those kinds of moments. Here we are in new york. Its the shank of the evening if weve ever seen one. Uhoh. Day 1,000 of the Trump Administration has begun. And we already know. Well see you on the other end of day 1,000 as it gives way to 1,001. We need brilliant closing thoughts from all of you. Well start with the pulitzer winner at the far end. Eugene, what have we learned . Boy, you know, theres a campaign thats still going on. With the impeachment and syria and more impeachment, theres this Campaign Going on. So lets focus back on that. I just want to point to one moment in the debate that i thought was maybe the most human of all and that was when Bernie Sanders thanked everyone for their thoughts and support during his illness. And that was like the most human moment i think the nation has gotten to see from Bernie Sanders. It was a moment i will remember from the debate. I think that they all did fine. I dont think anythings going to move significantly. I think elizabeth is going to get used to being under attack because thats what happens when you get to the front of the pack. I think that joe biden handled himself as well tonight as he has any night. But now i think the campaigns, were going to get to the phase where the campaigns are going to shift into really aggressive organizing in the early states. Their resources, their efforts, their time is going to be in living rooms in iowa, living rooms in New Hampshire, living rooms in south carolina, and a lot of meeting with union guys out in nevada. And sprinkled in there a lot of meetings with africanamerican voters and hispanic voters, and thats really where its going to shift now, is those early states organizing. Alicia. As much as there is an appetite on the part of some to see a winnowing of these fields and as cumbersome as these 12person debates can feel, i think what we saw today is theres a reason that theres still this many candidates in the race, because they are all representing a different part of the Democratic Base a speaking to some of that, and i think ultimately it would be good for democrats that they have this broad range of candidates that are really energizing their base. Youd better be right, said the democrats watching at this late hour. Steve kornacki, 15 seconds of brilliance. Very quickly, you saw 12 candidates tonight. The next debate in a month from now, may be a lot less than that. Julian castro, Amy Klobuchar, beto orourke, Tulsi Gabbert, all right now would not qualify for the next debate and they need a lot to go their way in the next couple weeks or theyre not going to make the next stage. Everybodys so good. I think the three frontrunners showed why theyre the three frontrunners. I agree with eugene. Bernie sanders spoke to his supporters whove been with him through thick and thin. Elizabeth warren as i said to her is so deep. Shes a pl miles deep on policy, substance andendurance. And joe biden connected. If you loved joe biden you saw his anguish about his son, about his child having to be part of this lunacy brought about by trump and his propaganda artists around ukraine. With thanks to all for participating in our coverage, joy reid takes over our live coverage at the top of the hour. Thank you for joining us. As a cio, you want to move your business forward. But when your team is always dealing with device setups, app updates, and support calls. You can never seem to get anywhere. Thats why Dell Technologies created unified workspace, powered by vmware. A revolutionary solution that lets you deploy, manage, support and secure all your devices from the cloud. So you can stop going in circles, and start moving forward. A peaceful night sleep without only imagine. Frequent heartburn waking him up. Now that dream is a reality. Nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for allday, allnight protection. Can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn . Applebees new pasta and grill combos. Choose from up to 12 combinations starting at 9. 99. What are you doing back there, junior . Since were obviously lost, im rescheduling my Xfinity Customer Service appointment. Ah, relax. I got this. Which gps are you using anyway . A Little Something called instinct. Been using it for years. Yeah, thats what im afraid of. He knows exactly where were going. My whole body is a compass. Oh boy. The my account app makes todays Xfinity Customer Service simple, easy, awesome. Not my thing. Democratic debate number four, 12 candidates, one stage, two frontrunners front and center tonight. I went on the floor and got you votes. I am deeply grateful to president obama, who fought so hard to make sure that agency was passed into law. Looming over all of it,