Nbc news headquarters in new york. As we approach day 900 of the Trump Administration, we are taking a closer look at the Mueller Report and what weve learned so far. Well break down what the report tells us and warns us about russia interference, the origins of the russia investigation and what exactly Robert Mueller has to say on the topic of obstruction of justice. First, we learn back on march 22 that Robert Mueller had wrapped up his investigation. You may recall that sunday, attorney general bill barr released his own summary that said mueller did not find the they had not conspired or coordinated with russia. He also said mueller did not draw a conclusion and the report did not exonerate the president of obstruction. That same afternoon, trump claimed complete and total exoneration. There was no collusion with russia. There was no obstruction and none whatsoever and it was a complete and total exoneration. It is a shame that our country had to go through this. To be honest, it is a shame that your president has had to go through this. The next part is crucial. For the next 26 days, Robert Mueller said nothing while barrs version and the president s version hung out there in public because we hadnt seen the Mueller Report. Barrs summary version was the only version we had to go on. Fast forward to april 18, the day a redacted version of the report was released. On that day, the attorney general did it again. He again gave his boss, the president the air cover he wanted and needed when he prespun the Mueller Report right before it came out. After carefully resuing the facts and legal theories outlined in the report and in consultation with the office of Legal Counsel and other department lawyers, the Deputy Attorney general and i concluded that the evidence developed by the special council is not sufficient that the president committed an obstruction offense. Although we disagreed with some of the legal theories and felt some of the episodes did not amount to a matter of obstruction as a matter of law, we did not rely on that solely to make our decision. That same time, the redacted report was released to the public. Volume one laid out. Volume two spelled out noorly a dozen incidents of obstruction by the president. Robert mueller spoke out for the first time. He repeatedly stressed the need to address Russian Election interference during his remarks. The indictments alleged and the other activities in our report describe efforts to interfere in our political system. They need to be investigated and understood. I will close by reiterating the central allegation of our indictments that there were multiple, systematic efforts to interfere in our election. That allegation deserves the attention of every american. Indeed it does. The special counsel also talked about his Decision Making process where obstruction of justice was concerned. If we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so. We did not however, make a determination whether the president did commit a crime. The introduction to volume two of our report explains that decision. It explains that under Longstanding Department policy, a present president cannot be charged with a federal crime while he is in office. That is unconstitutional. The opinion says the constitution requires a process other than the criminal Justice System to formally accuse a sitting president of wrongdoing. And beyond department policy, we rashded by principals of fairness. It would be unfair to potentially accuse somebody of a crime when there can be no Court Resolution of the actual charge. So that was Justice Department policy, those were the principals under which we operated. From them, we concluded we would not reach a determination one way or the other whether the president committed a crime. Following the remarks, peter baker summed things up, quote, in his dry, lawyerly, scripted statement, mr. Mueller gave voice and mr. Trumps efforts to impede the investigation. He chose in the end to speak out just this once if he has his way, to plead for a deliberate assessment of the facts from a deeply divided political system that shows no willingness to look at the findings. He did not accuse the president of a crime. But mr. Mueller seemed to hint that he might have if he thought he could and he pointedly refused to exonerate mr. Trump. Likewise, he implied that congress could pursue impeachment without directly recommended it. Late last month, we learned the house and Judiciary Committee will have a chance to question Robert Mueller directly in public on july 17. The chairman of the two panels said the agreement came after they issued a subpoena compelling the former special counsels testimony. On that note, lets bring in our guests for our discovery, National Justice and security reporter, form assistant fbi director for counterterrorism who worked for Robert Mueller in his career in Law Enforcement. Welcome both. Has time given you anymore, any further perspective on what our friends will take on, the degree to which this attorney general gave the man who hired him, the president , the air cover he needed during those crucial first days before we had seen the report . As the calendar clicks by, it becomes more and more apparent that this attorney general is essentially aiding and abetting concealment of what the special counsel found and he is in conspiracy with this white house to zidisguise the findings of t special counsel. We have an attorney general who pulled those rules like a rug out from under bob mueller. It felt like a sucker punch but now we are a nation wrestling with that question. What to do with substantial evidence of wrongdoing against the president and what to do with an attorney general who has no interest in pursuing what the special counsel found. Is it fair to assign a little blame in the way the report was written and made public . The kind of tonnage and density of another era of the trade of law we are not all in released as it is in the age we are living in in 2019 . I think hind sight is 2020. I can tell you hes a man that adheres to strong principal and also precedent and protocol. The way he wrote this report and drafted it, the final product is mueller. It has his imprint all over it in the sense that it was lawyerly, gentlemanly and civil as almost being from another era. The question we have is did that serve us well in a nation that finds its news on twitter, on a clip from a Live Streaming event and catches a bit of news on the evening after work in the evening news. Did that 400page report serve us well and it turns out it is not doing us well. I think the metro bus stop outside the doj reading the raw material of the Mueller Report. As you look back on that day, on the document, as we learn the members of congress who havent read it, the millions of american citizens who havent read it. What do you think has been missed and what do you think has been diminished . Thats a great question. I will always remember that day. That day, i remember, it was dense. We went through it as quickly as we could. There is no way you could read 400 pages before you speak to the american public. I actually think some of the gut reaction that day still remain the fact and still actually ring true. What we were looking for that day. The first volume we picked up was volume two, because of the obstruction. We were confused about the march statement from the attorney general. We read through it. One thing reads true. That is that this special counsel a counsel and his office did not view whether you could charge a sitting president the same as the attorney general. Because they saw you could not charge a sitting president , they leaned on that. The decision not to charge with obstruction. They never even opened the door toward charging or not charging because you couldnt even do that because this opinion was sitting in front of them. That is different from what the attorney general said. He asked Robert Mueller point blank, would you charge the president but for this opinion . He said no. That day, we quickly had a die cot mee between what the special counsel was saying and the attorney general was saying. One of the biggest developments was when people from the special counsels office started going to the Justice Department between the summary and the report was released and they said you are not characterizing this correctly. Thats not what we said. That has stood. Of Course Congress wants Robert Mueller wants to ask more questions. He did not want to charge a man who could not defend himself. I think what Robert Mueller brought home that day was the overt actions to interer fear in our election. I think he really called us to arms to ask the government whether or not they can protect us now. Something you touched on that Robert Mueller is a taciturn individual perhaps from another era. Is demanding his testimony from the House Democrats potentially a case of be careful what you wish for . Yeah, i think we got a solid glimps of mueller. I can tell you having worked with him, what you saw is what you will get. He will stick to the four corners of his report. He answers, it is in there and answers with oneword responses. Julia, you indicated something i have reflected on so many times since that day. Some of our analysis and comments about the report you were reading to us live, i think we last heard on that day, that kind of went away in the mirase of information. I dont want to drag you into the area of opinion but can it be said clinically that congress is still perhaps finding its sea legs and finding yes or no is it worth exerting that power. I dont think that is stating an opinion at all to say there were a number of allegations that Robert Mueller very clearly laid out in great detail. It is obvious he had a lot of cooperation especially from the former white House Counsel done mcga don mcgahn and efforts to fire Robert Mueller. There were a number of associates involved. Especially on the obstruction case. Mueller laid out so much evidence, almost a road map. He clearly said that was an avenue best suited not for the criminal Justice System, hint, hint, congress, when he made that one appearance. They really left that open to congress. At this point, whether congress decides if they have enough to head down that road. If it doesnt end in impeachment, they could be accused of beating a dead horse over something they did not find. That no, they have tools that Robert Mueller did not have. Two of our most valuable players around here, our thanks to both of you for joining us. When we continue, the president continues to insist, he never tried get rid of Robert Mueller. Coming up, the specifics of that effort uncovered in the special counsels report for all to see. Later, well hear from two people who know about the continued threat the russians pose as we grow closer to the 2020 election. Back right after this. With the new pronamel repair toothpaste we can help actively repair enamel in its weakened state. Its innovative. With pronamel repair, more minerals are able to enter deep into the enamel surface. The fact that you have an opportunity to repair whats already been damaged, its amazing. 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With audible originals, theres something for almost every taste in there. Everything you ever wanted to hear. I signed up for getting a credit every month, and i started exploring books that i normally wouldnt read. Our ability to empathize through these stories, with these stories, can be transformational. Its my own thing that i can do for me. See what listening to audible can do for you. Just text listen5 to 500500. From deep inside the Mueller Report, we are focusing tonight on the portions that detail the efforts to remove special counsel. In the report, mcgahn called him twice midjune 2017. Said both times trump directed him to call Rod Rosenstein to tell him he was conflicted and could not serve as special counsel. We quote, when the president called mcgahn a second time to follow up on the order to call the department of justice, mcgahn recalled that the president was more direct saying something like, call rod, tell rod mueller has conflicts and cant be the special counsel. He recalled telling him mueller has to go and call me back when you do it. Mcgahn understood the president saying that the special counsel had to be removed by rosenstein. 2017, President Trump reported that trump ordered mcgahn to fire mueller. February 2016 meeting saying, i never said to fire mueller. I never said fire. This story doesnt look good. You need to correct this. You are the white House Counsel. In response, mcgahn acknowledged that he had not told the president directly he planned to resign but the story was otherwise accurate. He asked again, did i say the word fire . He answered, you said, call Rod Rosenstein and tell him mueller has conflicts and cant be counsel. The president said, i never said that. Mcgahn told the president he did not understood the conversation that way and instead had heard call rod, there are conflicts, mueller has to go. The president asked mcgahn whether he would do a correction. Mcgahn said no. He thought the president was testing miss medal to see how committed he was to what happened. We should point out a critical single sentence in this report that says the following, it says mcgahn is a credible witness with no motive to lie or exaggerate given the position he held in the white house. Coming up, the Mueller Report offers new insight into one of the more memorable and unique figures. More on what weve learned on George Papadopoulos as this special edition of the 11th hour continues. Tment. Trelegy. The power of 123. Trelegy 123 trelegy. With trelegy and the power of 1 2 3, im breathing better. Trelegy works 3 ways to. Open airways,. Keep them open. And reduce inflammation. For 24 hours of better breathing. Trelegy wont replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. Trelegy is not for asthma. Tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high Blood Pressure before taking it. Do not take trelegy more than prescribed. 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Xfinity home. Disarm the system. Doors open. Morning. Welcome to the neighborhood. Do you like my work . Secure your home with x1 voice control. And rest easy knowing you have professional monitoring backing you up. Awarded top pick by cnet. Demo at an xfinity store, call or go online today. Xfinity home. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Welcome back. Reporting from the New York Times reveals in 2016, the fbi sent an investigator to meet with then campaign aid George Papadopoulos. Writing, quote, the fbi sent her to london as part of the Counter Intelligence to better understand the Trump Campaigns links to russia. The affiliation with the woman who said her name was azra turk is one previously unreported detail. The decision to use ms. Turk in the operation aimed as a president ial Campaign Official shows the level of alarm inside the fbi during a frantic period when they were trying to determine the scope of russias attempts. And also gives lie to trumps spying claims. You may remember attorney general barr saying this. I think spying on a Political Campaign is a big deal. Im not talking about the fbi necessarily but intelligence agencies more broadly. You are not suggesting that spying occurred . I dont well i guess i think there was spying did occur. Yes, i think spying did occur. The question is whether it was adequately predicated. Im not suggesting it wasnt but i need to explore that. Later, barr again defended his use of that term spying. Here with us tonight to talk about it, the aforementioned corporate for t correspondent with the New York Times and author of messing with the enemy we should add Research Assistants to the end of that list. How does this play out, does it begin with three people walked into a bar . The story shows the extent the fbi went to in order to try and learn what was going on between the russians and the campaign. They wanted to have a government investigator, someone trained, someone who could collect evidence, someone who could tf at trial, one of their inform ants that made this contact. It just shows the extent of it. On the right, this is just an example of the spying that would go this far. From the bureaus perspective they would say, look, this gives us eyes and ears and oversight there are folks that can keep a watch on this and make sure it doesnt go off the rails. But it is is a picture into what Counter Intelligence looks like. Something we dont see a lot but have learned so much about since the 2016 campaign. Clint, does this look familiar to you . Yes, this is exactly what i would expect. If you think about it from the bureau investigation. They watch widespread hacking go on for at least a year. They think it is russia but they are not sure. They have a tip from the australia government. Carter page who they had interviewed before. He shows up again inside the campaign. The other one you see is aggressive social media and wikileak dumping emails out there. Another thing critical, you need to put an agent into this environment, one, they may have to testify later on if something surfaces. It is not just counter intel but an investigation into hacking. They are investigating this entire email hacking case that had been going on it seemed like well into the spring. This person may have to testify. You want to have an agent in there. They know the context of the questions. If you get a lead or follow up, you are not relaying through an inforntant. Why would George Papadopoulos say this on twitter. I agree with everything in this article except azra turk clearly was not fbi. She was cia and affiliated with turkish intel. Any reason to believe or or doubt it . I have a little more confidence in the New York Times story than George Papadopoulos. Lets see who plays out as to who is the course in there. There was a placement put in there. They were trying to figure out. It is a defensive Counter Intelligence investigation. They are trying to find out, did the russian government actually penetrate to a president ial campaign. You are going to take this maneuver for sure. Michael, people want to know what the Trump Campaign was like. We read from the Mueller Report. Pap contacted Trump Campaign manager cory on linkedin as people do. Glass ner passed along word of pap interest to another individual that she had been told to introduce pap to sam clovis the cochair and chief policy advisor. Here is the magic, listen to what the president says to the Washington PostEditorial Board 19 days after that. George papadopoulos hes an oil and energy consultant, excellent guy. Excellent guy, michael. Is this kind of freelancing the name salad we just read aloud common . No. I dont think it is common as other campaigns would function. I think what you are talking about gets at the question in the Mueller Report. Was the Trump Campaign disorganized to allow people like George Papadopoulos that had had weird connections to different foreigners and people talking about russian emails into the inner circle. Was it because it was so a typical they were able to be on Foreign Policy advisors or just really well coordinated and could coordinate with the russians. There was none of that. They couldnt prove that. This sort of plays into the notion that this thing was a mess and maybe when trump Campaign Officials will say things like we didnt even know where our Campaign Office was in iowa, so how could we clued with the russians, maybe there was some truth to that. There was also play that the s word was involved. This was spying. Yes, this is interesting how it plays out. Spying on a campaign would mean we are gathering intelligence on the studies. I dont see that as such. You would not leave a tip about emails you are already investigating out on the table whenever it has come in through a foreign Intelligence Officer like this. You have to follow it up and determine valid, invalid. Were the russians trying to throw bait. You have to run that to ground. The fbi would be deeply irresponsible if they did not close that out. Thank you and coming up, there are exactly 488 days between the fourth of july and election day 2020. As we continue, why National Security experts are still so concerned about what russia could accomplish in that time period to interfere with our democracy. We are back with that after this. Is supporting military families. When i have a child deployed, having a Reliable Network means everything. So, when i get a video chat, and i get to see their face, its the best thing in the world. And ive earned every one of these gray hairs. Military moms, we serve too. vo the network more people rely on, gives you more. Like military plans with a special price on unlimited, 100 per line, and big savings on our best phones when you switch. Thats verizon. Why fingerstick when you can scan . With the freestyle libre 14 day system just scan the sensor with your reader, iphone or android and manage your diabetes. With the freestyle libre 14 day system, a continuous glucose monitor, you can check your glucose levels any time, without fingersticks. Ask your doctor to write a prescription for the freestyle libre 14 day system. You can do it without fingersticks. Learn more at freestylelibre. Us wii will close by reiteratin there were multiple, systematics efforts to interfere in our election. That zdeserves the attention of every american. For some folks, that closing statement hasnt gotten nearly the attention it deserves. Highlighting some of the consequences writing, quote, it produced hillaryversusbernie chaos and launched scores of stories looking into intern follow communications including hacked emails and aided part of Donald Trumps closing message with him mentioning the word wikileak some 140 times in the final month of the general election. The lack of urgency and attention to that interference remains the real scandal. The morning after mueller spoke, the president asked what is being done to combat future interference. He added this. We are doing a lot. We are trying to do paper ballots as a back up system. Going to go Old Fashioned paper is the best way to do it. There you have it. Here with us to talk about it tonight. Former u. S. Ambassador to russia. His book called from cold war to hot peace. And malcolm nance. 35 years working in the field and author of the plot to destroy democracy. Both timely books making these leading experts to talk to. You heard mueller yesterday. What ran through your mind . Is. Just the way you set it up, brian. The other parts of what is legal or not, youve been talking about. He began and ended with the fact that russia attacked us in 2016. They violated our sovereignty in a multiple pronged attack designed to influence the course of that election. So far, despite what the president just said now, weve done next to nothing to prevent that in 2020. I think moving forward, we have to continue to remind your viewers and the American People to put pressure on the Trump Administration and congress to enact the legislation that would protect that vote. Malcolm, i think when most people hear that, they throw up their hands and dont know what to do, i think they are justifiably scared about the tinkering with our election process. What is the danger to you. Add to that. Is it that the president doesnt only share the urgency . He doesnt share the problem . He doesnt share the problem because he fundamentally does not believe that anything happened in 2016 because he has tied russian interference to his own legitimacy. Thats valid for him. There are some questions which do crop up. Robert mueller made it eminently clear that this attack on the United States, which we saw three years ago, is most likely going to happen again. So that being said, the forces in the United States that could do something about it, department of homeland security, National Security, state and local Law Enforcement with some cyber capability, they are left on their own with no leadership from the president. We have been lead to believe through reporting especially from the New York Times that the last secretary nielsen we are led to believe, they also have a thorough reach into things like our power grids and wheels of our American Life that they can taurnd control almost by whim. They have tremendous cyber capabilities, thats right. You just widened the area we need to be worried about. I think we need to stop waiting for the administration to do it. There are four concrete acts congress could act. The te rerch act, the pave act which provides for those paper ballots. The fire act just introduced not just allows but makes all campaigns have to report on foreign activity. The honest ads act. There are four acts. Fire, pave, detour and honest ads act. Those need to be passed now before the 2020 election. Malcolm, give us a consumers guide. At the end of the broadcast, we go home with a phone. We scroll through social media, whatever our favorites are. Tell us how folks with their phone at home at night are affected by the russian reach into just take social media. Is it visible to us . Is it invisible . What would we notice or not know we are being hit with russian interference . It is extremely visible. The Mueller Report itself made clear that russias reach into the mindset of the United States public. They reached 129 million voters through their disinformation Warfare Campaign which was then amplified by the platform which is facebook, twitter, instagram and others. You dont initially know whether you are reading something true or false. For example, Hillary Clinton stumbles and has a brain disorder. That was fashioned by an american citizen and then amplified by this enormous microphone russia and team trump put in place. The biggest problem is us. The news media. We are the medium in which false stories grow. Once the media starts learning to police itself and not jump out after every rabbit and chases it and we clear that with Third Party Organizations or through our own research and realize when we are being taken for a ride with real information that may just have a false basis and maybe just a vehicle for the news media to be a megaphone for more distraction. Mike mcfall, in you are watching a flat screen tv in the basement of the kremlin, are you interested when donald trump comes out on the south lawn and goes after the chief prosecutor in this case, the special counsel Robert Mueller . You are loving it. This is what they wanted. They wanted to sow division in america, this polarization, this weakness we see now. They think this has been a very good thing in terms of us fighting against each other. That means we are not talking about the russian threat. Thats what they anticipated and what theyve received so far. We have to start pushing back by that. We knew by inviting you on, you would be the sobering moment of the evening. Thank you as always for coming on our broadcast tonight. Coming up, it has been the president s mantra ever since the release of the Mueller Report. The only problem with it is, it is not true. And that stubborn fat just wont go away. Coolsculpting takes you further. A nonsurgical treatment that targets, freezes, and eliminates treated fat cells, for good. Discuss coolsculpting with your doctor. Some common sideeffects include temporary numbness, discomfort, and swelling. Dont imagine results, see them. Coolsculpting, take yourself further. You might or joints. Hing for your heart. But do you take something for your brain. With an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish, prevagen has been shown in Clinical Trials to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. High protein. Low sugar. Tastes great high protein. Low sugar. So good high protein. Low sugar. Mmmm, birthday cake pure protein. The best combination for every fitness routine. It was Just Announced there was no collusion with russia. The most ridiculous thing i have heard. No obstruction. None whatsoever. It was a complete and total exoneration. That was our president the day the attorney general released that fourpage summary letter. Thats what led mueller to write that tyranny when you renounce the difference between what you want to hear and what is actually the we welcome back timothy snyder. He was a marshall scholar. He happens to be the author of two books in this area. The first we just mentioned on tyranny. 20 lessons from the 20th century. The second, the road to unfreedom. Russia, europe, america and professor, from the distance of austria you have been listening to our broadcast tonight. Just the news were covering tonight, how do you believe it fits into the thesis. Unfortunately it fits extremely well. The foundation of russian Foreign Policy toward us and toward everyone is to try to get rid of factuality as such. To turn politics into a matter of spectacle. We are now in the middle of that. We have a president and attorney general that are lying about an underlying a reality. Thats that russia in 2016 carry out a comprehensive campaign to get mr. Trumpca elected. Thats the underlying factual reality. What were seeing is an attempt to turn underlying facts not just into spin but into fiction. This isnt just a problem because the facts are so important. Its a problemar because facts themselves are the basis of rule for law state. So your coverage tonight about a crisis in the department of justice is about a crisis in the rule of law and the kind of country that the United States will be. I first saw you in an interview with bill mahr that stopped me in my tracks. You talked about the importance for listening to dangerous words. With that in mind, listen to this from our president. Well discuss on the other side. They tried for a coup, didnt workout so well. And i didnt need a gun for that one. They were really, there was a coup long before mueller. This was a coup. This wasnt stealing information from offices. This was a coup. That word while powerful is also a term of art in geopolitics. How does that fit . He is saying i would be within any rights if i also did something extraordinary. He is trying to move from something normal into somewhere where it would be thinkable and of course he alreadyin blamed t other side although in fact what has happened is that he himself has been a beneficiary of a very strange intervention in american politics by a foreign power. Normalization comes through repetition, does it not . And is that what were seeing with no obstruction, no collusion, total vindication . Yeah, thats right out of the m playbook. You repeat something that you know is simple and that you know is wrong over and over again in the hope that you could clear out all the underbrush of the facts. The underbrush of the facts indicate that there was a campaign in 2016 to elect mr. Trump. That it came from russia. That mr. Trump and his campaign knew about it. That theykn supported it. That they expected it to help him. Those are the facts. Repeating these things is an attempt to make people comfortable in a reality in which we should be highly uncomfortable. We appreciate the fact that youre withy us at 5 54 in the morning in vienna austria. Its a pleasure to have you as always. The latest book is the road to unfreedom, russia, europe, america. Prior to that, the book is on tyranny. Coming up our special Independence Day weekend of the 11th hour is after this. F the 11th hour is after this. And out of the hospital. Dont take entresto if pregnant; it can cause harm or death to an unborn baby. Dont take entresto with an ace inhibitor or aliskiren or if youve had angioedema with an ace or arb. The most serious side effects are angioedema, low Blood Pressure, kidney problems, or high blood potassium. Ask your doctor about entresto. Where to next . Has been excellent. They really appreciate the military family and it really shows. With all that usaa offers why go with anybody else . We know their rates are good, we know that theyre always going to take care of us. It was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. It was funny because when we would call another insurance company, hey would say oh we cant beat usaa were the webber family. Were the tenneys were the hayles, and were usaa members for life. Get your usaa Auto Insurance quote today. You can watch our broadcast any time by downloading the msnbc app on your phone. If youre on the move you can listen each night. We are channel 118. Were also available as a podcast where ever you get your podcast. We hope theres never any reason to miss a single episode of the 11th hour. So that is our Holiday Weekend edition of the broadcast. Thank you for being here with us and well see you again on monday night from nbc news headquaters in new york. As we gather this evening we remember that all share a truly extraordinary heritage. Together we are part of one of the greatest stories ever told. The story of america. President trump celebrating july 4th with his controversial event at the lincoln memorial. Protestors criticized the president for putting himself center stage on Independence Day. Plus several 2020 candidates flocked to iowa to celebrate the 4th of july in the first of the nation caucus state. And