Good evening once again from our nbc news Head Quarters in new york. Day 887 of the trump administration, and on the eve of the first democratic debate of the 2020 cycle there is breaking news on another front involving special counsel Robert Mueller. He agreed to testify in public and on camera. July 17th before both the house judiciary and house intelligence committees. One after another. About his findings and his report on russian interference in our 2016 election. Judiciary chairman jerry nadler and adam schiff announced muellers decision a few hours ago. They both indicated mueller agreed to appear, this is important, despite deep reluctance after the two committees issued subpoenas. California congressman schiff spoke about muellers decision earlier on this network. I dont think the special counsels office could character rise it as a friendly subpoena. He did not want to testify. He made that very clear. Nonetheless, they will respect the subpoena. He will appear. So schiff runs the Intel Committee and also said there will be a closed door session with his committee and members of muellers team. You may recall mueller telling us all publicly he did not want to do this. I hope and expect this to be the only time i will speak to you in this manner. I am making that decision myself. No one has told me whether i can or should testify or speak further about this matter. There has been discussion about an appearance before congress. Any testimony from this office would not go beyond our report. It contains our findings and analysis and the reasons for the decisions we made. We chose those words carefully and the work speaks for itself. And the report is my testimony. I would not provide information beyond that which is already public in any appearance before congress. Of course members of both committees will now try to test that. His agreement to now appear and testify comes as this president is facing a crisis on the border, an increasingly tense standoff with iran. Tonight the president s allies are reacting to the former special counsels upcoming capitol hill appearance. A member of the president s personal legal team spoke by telephone tonight with fox news. There was no collusion conspiracy with the trump campaign. That was the legal conclusion reached by bob mueller. As it relates to obstruction of justice, as bill barr said correct legally, no obstructive intent. So those are the two questions. The fact that bob mueller is going to testify, i dont think youre going to see anything different in his testimony than whats in his report. More on that in a bit. And one of trumps strongest supporters on capitol hill made this prediction. So it is case closed for me. They can do anything they want in the house. I think it will blow up in their face. Conclusions cant change. There is no collusion. And a short time ago the president weighed in with just this. Calling the latest Development President ial harassment. That was the last we heard from him. And here with our leadoff discussion on a tuesday night, frank figlusi, jeremy bash, and former u. S. Attorney joyce vance who spent 25 years give or take as a federal prosecutor. Good evening and welcome to you all. Frank, we have reason to believe this is about duty, honor, country. He is not a he is a deeply reluctant witness. People should remember he is not there to do help for any specific political party, im guessing. He is all about duty, honor and country. We should not get our expectations very high that hes going to go beyond the four corners of his report like he said, but brian, i would assert there is tremendous value in america hearing from bob mueller. Were in a society that gets the news from twitter, from a digital stream. Catches a few minutes here and there on the evening news. And we dont read anymore. The hottest trend in the book industry is audible books. We simply dont read. And if bob mueller got on tv and read from the phone book, there would be value in it and americans would tune in. If he simply sticks to the four corners and recites passages in response to questions, americans may hear the passages for the very first time. Joyce vance, here is Judiciary Committee chairman jerry nadler, democratic congressman from the west side of manhattan talking on cnn tonight. I think one of the questions that isnt specifically in the report would be you wrote a letter mr. Mueller to the special to the attorney general saying that he had in ways misrepresented the report. How so . But i think its important the American People hear from him what he did find and what he didnt find. Joyce, thats one interesting point there. This is a guy who is zealously agnostic. Famously taciturn. How do the democrats go about the task of questioning a guy they view as a friendly witness . How do you proceed . So i agree with frank on this one. I think the biggest value that democrats can get from muellers testimony is to let him tell the story of the investigation. Because for many americans, that story still hasnt come into focus. Theyve not read the report. If democrats will stay away from the process questions, asking mueller about the investigation, what he did, what he didnt do, those are questions hes really not going to answer, and that would be an unsatisfactory sort of a hearing. But letting him tell the story of the investigation will be productive for the country. Joyce, is the difference between a subpoena and a friendly subpoena the difference between a merely reluctant witness and a hostile witness . Sometimes yes, but maybe not here. Mueller was very clear that he didnt want to testify. He believes that the report speaks for itself. That said, he wont be the sort of reluctant witness who is obstructive. Hell answer the questions that he can, but i dont think hell hesitate to tell the representatives the members of congress when he believes it would be inappropriate for him to answer a question as well. Jeremy bash, a double question for you. How do the democrats try to make him their witness, and why have staff meet with staff, muellers staff, hills staff, in off camera executive session . Well, first, brian, i think there are two areas where bob mueller will contribute to the record. First, i think he can tell the narrative arc of his investigation. After all, the fundamental question at the heart of the investigation is what leverage does a foreign adversary power have over our president and american policy. I think bob mueller can explain the extent on which donald trump sought, received, and rewarded the russians for that interference. And second, i think there is some new information that mueller can explain which is why did he implicitly state both in the report and his press conference or statement that the president had committed obstruction of justice. He stated as a double negative. I did not find that the president did not obstruct justice. But what was clearly meant is i did find the president probably did obstruct justice, but i couldnt prosecute him because hes the president. Over to you, congress. If he just merely explains that in a clear, coherent way, i think he adds to the important record. As for the staff on staff discussion, i think has to illuminate some of the classified information. Frank, whats the chance you and i looked at each other while jay was speaking by phone in the clip to fox news. Was that a movement of the goal post saying no obstructive intent . As far as i know, the president s mantra has been no obstruction, no collusion. Yeah. We do see a shading occurring here. And you know and your viewers know you need to prove intent to prove obstruction of justice. And its very hard to do. But theyre already starting to say well, maybe there was some sign of obstruction, but he didnt really mean it. And i think were going to continue to hear that. The other thing to watch for, brian, between now and july 17th are is can this president contain himself . Can the president stop himself from picking up the phone, calling the attorney general, and trying to talk the attorney general into some kind of claim of immunity . Will there be a hope hicks situation where miss hicks showed up but wasnt allowed to answer questions . Whats going to transpire . I want to play for you, this is Robert Mueller on may 29 th. Well talk about it on the other side. The indictments allege and the other activities in our report describe efforts to interfere in our political system. They needed to be investigated and understood, andly close by reiterating the central allegation of our indictments, that there were multiple systematic efforts to interfere in our election. And that allegation deserves the attention of every american. We play this in the context the president is going to the g20 meeting with his friend, mr. Putin. You touched on this, jeremy touched on this. Could the good that comes from this be perhaps at long last a renewed sense of urgency beyond our discussions with you on television that is maybe shared by the American People . The sense of outrage is not there in the American Public regarding what russia did to us and our election process. And they should be outraged. And they should be demanding answers from elected representatives and state county and local registrars of voters. I think if mueller does nothing else, he can lay out on tv for the American Public here are all the things that russia did to mess with us. Theyre going to do it again. And americans can say wait a minute. Next time it wont be my party theyre helping. It will be the other party. We need to do something about it. Joyce vance, ive been listening to the spin by various trump surrogates tonight on fox news. Theres talk of the origins of the investigation. Theres talk of strzok and page. Joyce, if youre running the president s legal team, do you tonight say okay, this is probably going to be bad for us . Youve got to believe that its going to be bad for the president , because the facts, the detail thats contained inside of the Mueller Report whether or not it amounts to sufficient evidence to charge a criminal case, its damaging. Its damaging to this president. Both the intelligence aspect, the conspiracy and the collusion evidence. And also the obstruction paints a very different picture of donald trump than the picture that the American People heard from bill barr when he released his summary of the report. At the end of muellers testimony, if he, in fact, tells the story of the report, a lot of people in this country may find themselves asking why they were lied to for so many weeks. Jeremy bash, this may call for an interpretation on your part, but im imagining one of the questions one of the democrats on the committee is going to have for the special counsel is the president says at least once a day no collusion, no obstruction. Does that sum up your findings . Is that true or is that false . Do you believe mueller will have a satisfying for the public do main what frank was talking about in 2019, a satisfying answer to that question at hand . I think hes going to be resistance to try to be the political sound bite of the moment. I think its inescapable that bob mueller disagrees about that conclusion by the president. Thats what his 400 plus page report says. Thats what his 9minute press statement reiterated. I think youre going to hear that loud and clear from the special counsel that the special counsel fundamentally disagrees with and undermines this president ial maunt ra, and in fact, the evidence disproves it. Weve all touched on various forms of this answer, but heres the question, and ill go around the horn to each of you starting with frank. What one question would you want to ask mueller . What one question would you want to hear the answer to . If donald trump was not president of the United States, would you be able to bring charges against him for obstruction . Joyce vance . Same question. Well, frank just stole my question. Ill add to that one. I think wed all like to know why mueller did not ask the president to sit for an interview. Why he didnt pursue the option that he had in court in that regard, but i suspect if hes asked that, hell decline to answer that and well have to live with the answer in the report which is that he didnt do it because of the time that would have been involved. And to you, jeremy. I think the question is why . Why did putin support trump . Why did trump want putins support and why did everybody in the president s inner circle lie about it . I think once those answers are brought to the fore, well have a factual basis to figure out how congress and the American People are going to proceed. To frank, jeremy, and joyce, our thanks for responding to this breaking news and joining us tonight to start us off. Coming up, the political risks the president is facing over the prospect of this testimony from mueller on live television. While we quickly add this is not without risk to the democrats either. And later, the latest poll numbers on this eve of the first democratic debate, how they stack up at this early stage heading into miami. As the 11th hour is just getting underway on this tuesday night. Termites, feasting on homes 24 7. Were on the move. Roger. Hey rick, all good . Oh yeah, were good. Were good. Termites never stop trying to get in, we never stop working to keep them out. Terminix. Defenders of home. Mno kidding. Rd. But moving your internet and tv . Thats easy. Easy . easy . Easy. Because now xfinity lets you transfer your Service Online in just about a minute with a few simple steps. Really . Really. That was easy. Yup. Plus, with twohour appointment windows, its all on your schedule. Awesome. Now all you have to do is move. That thing. [ sigh ] introducing an easier way to move with xfinity. Its just another way were working to make your life simple, easy, awesome. Go to xfinity. Com moving to get started. We are back. Without delay, weve been joined by two more of our frequent guests to react to the breaking news were covering tonight. Robert costa, moderator of Washington Week on pbs, and michael steele, former chairman of the republican party. Gentlemen, welcome, and robert, to you first. Your reporting and i know its early yet, reaction to this news that mueller is going to show. Based on my conversations tonight with sources in the senate, senators who are both republican and democratic are already talking about bringing mr. Mueller to the other side to the capital to ask their questions that republicans are eager to ask about the russia probe. Democrats want to hear more about russia interference in the 2016 election and the episodes of alleged obstruction of justice. Michael steele, this does require an opinion and some analysis on your part. Is this in your view a case of be careful what you wish for . Yes. For both sides, actually. Mueller is sort of the unspoken word in all of this. Weve seen the word on paper but weve not seen him stand at a podium except for about 8 minutes in which he riveted the countrys attention, and put out in his own words with his own voice what he thought about what his report said. And i think when you get into a situation whether its house or senate, democrat or republican, and hes sitting there given his experience in these matters, and quite honestly, the degree of reverence thats probably a strong word, but i think it does apply to some degree with him, that these senators and Congress Members have for him and his work, it will be a tricky situation that when he gets into a space he doesnt want to answer, and theyre going to press for questions, republicans certainly are going to be trying to build that wall around trump as much as they can. As democrats are trying to take out each brick they put in place. And mueller, i think that works to his advantage, quite honestly. And robert, a big caution to the democrats here would be to any of those who view mueller as their guy, he is so deeply and intensicly agnostic. They are a little cautious on the democratic side that mr. Mueller could get pulled into the republican rip tide of questioning about how the department of justice handled the investigation, but theres more of an appetite among democrats to try to get new answers and analysis from mr. Mueller about russian interference. So often were talking about volume 2 of the report. My democratic sources in the house say there hasnt been enough attention on volume one. And thats why the chairs like chairman nadler are so interested in having him come to testify because they want to start to tell the story to the American People if theyre going to move forward with impeachment. Not just about the president s conduct. They have to tell that story, dig into his intent, try to get some answers from mr. Mueller on intent but add illuminating thoughts from him. Thats their hope on the russia front. A reminder of where we are as we have this conversation. A current occupy of the white house is facing crises. The tensions with iran, a new accusation that our president raped a woman as a civilian two decades ago, and our treatment of Migrant Children at the u. S. southern border. This one incredibly sad photo may become one of those photos that galvanizes public opinion. This was taken in mexico monday. They are apparently refugees from el salvador. Just today the president s latest acting head of customs and Border Patrol resigned amid the stories of children on concrete floors with a foil sheet lacking soap and tooth paste. The president was asked about these conditions this afternoon. Are you concerned about the conditions at the border facilitys . Yes, i am. I am very concerned, and theyre much better than they were under president obama, by far, and were trying to get the democrats to agree to really give us some humanitarian aid, humanitarian money. The democrats dont want to sign anything, and now i think theyre going to probably sign this so robert costa, you heard and saw it there with a straight face. This is the democrats and conditions are so much better than they were under president obama. Please do us the honor of Fact Checking those. So heres the fact check. Very briefly, the democrats have moved forward in the house of representatives to try to provide some more funding for the crisis at the border. To try to provide more judges to move forward with funding for facilities. You have an administration that is led by President Trump and also at a secondary level by Steven Miller inside the house who has a tight grip over immigration policy. He comes from the hard line tactics to try to deter immigration from central america. Thats whos driving the policy. Thats why there are tensions inside of the Border Patrol and dhs. You have an administration that is looking at its own base and is wondering how theyre going to stop this influx of migrants at the border. They know they have pressure from conservatives and also pressure from the democrats. This is at the center of the administration. For them to throw the blame on congress, its an administrationdriven situation. And they are running the administration. The ball stops with them. Indeed. Michael steele, weve discussed the comparison to the frog boiling experiment. Peoples capacity to believe certain things stretches a little bit every day. This is the president saying that the actions of his administration are the fault of the democrats. Im sorry. That was actually a question and not leading into a clip. I was waiting for a clip there. Yeah. Thats what thats typical at this point. He doesnt get it. Trump doesnt want to get it in that sense, and to be quite honest, and rather its not even cynical because this is how this is going to play out. Mueller now agreeing to testify actually is a good thing over the next couple weeks for trump. Because it splits the screen further for him, and unless theres something thats horrendously tragic on top of what has been, he knows the ball is fixated on the mueller line. Closer to july, thats a bigger drum beat for him. Its easier for him to throw the dart out to Roberts Point this is the democrats fault without trying to stand there in the well of the country and explain to the American People why this is happening on his watch. And michael, and then to sow, robert, same question. Do the democrats, michael, just keep returning and returning and returning to these issues weve just mentioned tomorrow night regardless of our moderators attempts to steer the conversation elsewhere . Yeah. I think they do. And i think in a real sort of human sense this crisis on the border is one that will rivet peoples attention, and people are starting to ask what are the answers here . How are we caring for these children whom weve received custody of. Now theyre in our custody, and how are we as americans, as a country, and how is our government responding to that . So i can see the democrats tomorrow night certainly with all the other news breaking around mueller, bringing back to the sort of Human Interest story, if you will, about our capacity as americans to care for these kids. Robert costa, same question. Keeping in mind that that photograph does stop you in your tracks. Theres so much talk about who is going to take on who at this debate in miami tomorrow night or thursday night. What matters when you talk to the top political strategist is who has the most compelling message to be commander in chief. To be president of the United States and have an answer on immigration thats more than just a shot at President Trump to articulate their own message on complicated issues, foreign policy, immigration, race, who is going to emerge as a leader in this debate rather than just someone who takes a shot . There are many impressive democratic candidates. When you have all them together, its a test. We havent seen that yet. Who is going to rise to the moment. Gentlemen, thank you for answering the bell in light of our breaking news tonight. We appreciate it. Robert costa, michael steele, our thanks. Coming un, Steve Kornacki ends his journey to the democratic debate. A preview of tomorrow night when we come back. If you have medicare, listen up. Medicare alone only covers 80 of your cost, leaving you to pay the rest. Changes to medicare are no laughing matter. 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I had to stop at an atm machine. I took out 100 and then i realized im in New Hampshire and 100, thats a politicians salary. Back in my home state. Very excited here. I have been looking forward to this leg of the trip. The uri rams the Providence College fryers and how about colorful politicians . Ill tell you what. Connecticut, maybe its most significant was the rise of donald trump. It has been bumper to bumper on the cross bronx expressway. Let me roll up the window here. Theres Something Else were thinking about all of them are members in Good Standing of the new jersey state hall of fame. You all know the big story here. Pennsylvania, Election Night 2016 by a margin of 44,000 votes. Donald trump won this state. Hello to the first state delaware, home of the university of delaware. The fighting oh. Of course. Delaware. The toll booth. You know, we couldnt help ourselves. We were driving i95 and said weve got to stop at baltimores inner harbor. What do you notice right away . You notice that slogan. How long have you been hear and seeing that slogan . Virginia is for lovers. We climbed a mountain today and politically i guess the equivalent of climbing is mountain is the biggest in politics, winning the presidency. Charleston, South Carolina is also the hometown of the most famous unsuccessful candidate in a South Carolina president ial primary. The 18th green. Oh, boy. At augusta. Tiger woods has just bogeyed this hole, and now clint watts, msnbcs own winner of the 2002 greater quantico open is putting. He has sunk the putt. Hell be known for all time as hole in one watts. In my own defense, on this segment and this segment alone, i am not told in advance what the team has prepared each night, but indeed our long days journey in tonight has come to an end at the eve of the first democratic debate. If you saw that, you know Steve Kornacki has been taking the road to miami along i95 through 14 states in the district of colombia. Tonight we reach our destination. The Sunshine State. Florida is easily four of the most interesting states youll ever visit or live in. Miami, Steve Kornacki back at the big board tonight. Let me see it. Hello, steve. We finally made it. You hate to see that. After a long journey like that, especially after the expressway, we said lets do a beach day. We have the debate tomorrow and thursday. We figure lets lounge on miami beach, and every day in sunny southern florida is a beach day. Actually, im a northerner. Im kind of partial to winter. I looked this up when i got down here. Have they ever had a winter day in miami . Has it ever snowed in miami . Guess what. Once i take you back to january 19th, 1977. They call it the blizzard of 77 in miami. Enough snow that you could write the date on the windshield of your car. Snow in miami the headline. How much did they get . Were talking about a quarter of an inch at most. Its officially listed in the record books as trace amounts as a dusting of snow. The only time in the 20th century, the only time in the 21st century it snowed in miami. A beach day today. Were getting ready. Tomorrow we get serious about the president ial race. We got to debate the next two nights. Were talking about florida this week and throughout the campaign. It feels like every president ial Campaign Comes down to what tim russert said almost two decades ago, florida, florida, florida. It hasnt always been that way. It has to do what happened on the night, november 7th th, 2000 when florida became the florida we know today. We thought we would take you through what that was about. It was Election Night 2000. It was bush, gore, a close race. Early in the night 7 49 p. M. Florida was called for al gore. Everybody started talking about how al gore was going to be the next president because if he had florida, he was going to get to 270. The Bush Campaign said no, they think the count is wrong in florida. Then there was suspense. Look at this. Gore at one point was close to 200. He was leading bush. He had a clear path to 270. Look at the clock. 10 18. Tom brokaw, there was an error. Gores count went down. Florida took the blue off. Florida was uncalled. The night continued. Tim russert, they had the white board and a magic marker. There was tim russert all night trying to come up with the path for each candidate. About 2 17 a. M. The call went to george w. Bush. They said he won florida. Because he won florida, george w. Bush was the 43rd president of the United States. You thought the night was over . You were wrong. Then the gore Campaign Said no, we think the count is wrong. And the count got changed. Gore retracted his concession to george w. Bush. They stopped him before he made the speech. Everybody suddenly under 270 in the race. No clear winner. Florida looked this way at about 4 00 or 5 00 in the morning. Barically any votes separating the two. What ensued . The 36day recount. Butterfly ballots, voters in one county who may have accidentally voted for pat buchanan and the Supreme Court stepped in a 50 ruling thats still talked about and made george w. Bush the next president. That ended the 2000 election, but every election since, florida, florida, florida, and 2020 will be no different, brian. Steve, youve outdone yourself. Im here to tell the viewers steve is going to rejoin us after the break. Its going to be really interesting to see his choice of attire then. The stakes could not be higher for the 20 democrats debating over two nights in miami. New polling on where the candidates stand ahead of the competition when the 11th hour continues. flight attendants when you have nausea, heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea. vo try new pepto liquicaps for fast relief and ultracoating. flight attendants nausea, heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea. vo get powerful relief with new pepto bismol liquicaps. danny s voice of course you donte because you didnt . Your job isnt doing hard work. Its making them do hard work. And getting paid for it. vo snap and sort your expenses to save over 4,600 at tax time. Quickbooks. Backing you. Former Vice President joe biden continues to lead the 2020 primary field. A new national emerson poll released today puts him ahead of Bernie Sanders by 7 points. Elizabeth warren remains in third. Bidens poll numbers have not taken a significant hit since his comments on the segregationist he served with in the u. S. Senate. And tonights politico headline may say it all about the gulf between the people on cable news and the people who will vote. Quote, joe biden keeps stepping in it and voters couldnt care less. Back with us by popular demand and fully clothed im here to tell you is miami Steve Kornacki, and steve, you filled in for Nicole Wallace today and talked about this topic. It really is a gulf. Also tell us where the new numbers are, where the other candidates stand . Yeah. Its sort of in a Holding Pattern weve been talking about. Biden in front. Somewhere in the mid 30s, high 30s depending on the poll. Sanders probably second but warren has been moving. Sanders and warren, a battle for second place. Harrison and buttigieg getting some support. And others are dieing to get attention. The headline with biden is not just hes ahead after the rough week. Look at the polling among black voters, there was a controversial that involved race. There were questions about what biden pay a price with black voters . The answer according to this new poll today, not yet. He was at 45 with black voters in their poll a week ago. 46 in the new one today. A week of controversy and up a point. All the pros in our business and in politics said there were two good ways to handle that. A, not at all. B, if you must discuss the topic, say i was one of 100 senators. I couldnt overturn the wishes of voters in other states. It was during a time when we had to Work Together to pass legislation as part of our american past. I think the most significant thing that i take away from it at least just in terms of what we can expect from the Biden CampaignGoing Forward is the choice he made was no apology. No falling on your sword. No saying i was wrong. And i think that was a bit of a surprise just given where the Media Coverage was, given the timing. It wasnt just the controversy he stepped into it. Then he went to South Carolina. The electorate is of 60 black. Theres the decision not to apologize. If hes able to do that and not suffer meaningful damage in the poll, im curious. I dont want to steal all our own thunder but tomorrow evening i know youre preparing a segment for us to answer the question okay, just how early is it . At this point in other elections, who are the other people who thought they were just as good as president elect at this point . Sometimes the ones ahead at this point end up winning. You can talk about that. Ronald reagan was ahead early in 1980 and went all the way. I think if youre joe biden and youre ahead, maybe a cautionary tale, its Rudy Giuliani from 2007. He was ahead at this point. He was in about the high 30s at this point. He was universally known among his own partys voters. He was americas mayor. Widely liked by republicans. There were issues Rudy Giuliani wasnt in alignment with the Republican Base on. And it was a slow bleed for him in the polls throughout the year. Biden, how does he hold up under the spotlight now ha hes campaigning more than weve seen him campaigning. Is he going to wear well on democratic voters when they start seeing him every day and start hearing from him every day . Or is there a fadeout . And in social media the news cycles, a day is what a week used to be. Yeah. And picture joe biden. The other question with biden maybe raised by this week is has the rise of donald trump changed the biden gaffe, what it used to be. Does it play out differently . And our way in the media using two different sets of standards covering these two desperate men. Steve kornacki, we have hours of coverage tomorrow night. We are overjoyed youre going to be part of it. Thank you and thank you for your series of reports. I had a blast. Thank you. Weve had a blast watching and weve learned a lot along the way. Our thanks to Steve Kornacki. And coming up a look at the power of the Supreme Court and why our next guest calls Mitch Mcconnell the most skilled obstructionist ever in the u. S. Senate. Nah. Not gonna happen. Thats it. Im calling kohler about their walkin bath. My name is ken. How may i help you . Hi, im calling about kohlers walkin bath. Excellent happy to help. Huh . Hold one moment please. [ finger snaps ] hmm. The kohler walkin bath features an extrawide opening and a low stepin at three inches, which is 25 to 60 lower than some leading competitors. The bath fills and drains quickly, while the heated seat soothes your back, neck and shoulders. Kohler is an expert in bathing, so you can count on a deep soaking experience. Are you seeing this . The kohler walkin bath comes with fully adjustable hydrotherapy jets and our exclusive bubblemassage. Everything is installed in as little as a day by a kohlercertified installer. And its made by kohler americas leading plumbing brand. We need this bath. Yes. Yes you do. A kohler walkin bath provides independence with peace of mind. Call. And ask about saving 1000 on your walkin bath, or visit kohlerwalkinbath. Com for more info. One last question on the Supreme Court. Will you put forward a nominee between now and the election if theres an opening on the Supreme Court . Would i do that . Of course. Do you have any recommendations . Well, you have a big long list, right . I do. I have a good list. I have a good list. Already chosen. I have a beautiful list of great very talented people. Absolutely. But do you square that with Merrick Garland . No. I have a lot of respect for judge garland, by the way. I have to tell you that. I know people that know him. Ill tell you, who told me incredible things about him is justice, now justice kavanaugh. So much material there. Just last month Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell said republicans would fill a Supreme Court vacancy in 2020. Those remarks of course were almost designed to draw cries of hypocrisy after mcconnell refused famously to grant Merrick Garland a hearing in 2016, denying president obama an electionyear pick for the court. Mcconnell cited an electionyear tradition, keeping the seat open until a new president was elected. In the new book with the wonderful title of confirmation bias the veteran journalist carl hulse examines what impact mcconnells decision had on our 2016 election. He writes that by the end of Election Night 2016 mcconnell had achieved a monumental victory, one that would forever secure his legacy as the most skilled obstructionist ever in the senate. The Supreme Court ended up being the single Biggest Issue in leading trump to get 90 of the republican vote. Mcconnell said as he later weighed the outcome, it ended up helping him win the election. With us is the author, carl hulse. He is chief washington correspondent for the new york times. And again, the book is confirmation bias inside washingtons war over the Supreme Court. From scalias death, lets not forget that was the triggering event, to justice kavanaugh. Its great to have you. Thank you. I really appreciate you having me here. Carl, what has happened to the process of filling a vacancy on the court that did not exist when you and i were young kids . Its in tatters. I mean, its super partisan. And you know, both parties have played a role in this. But senator mcconnell took a big gamble the night that Justice Scalia died, decided after briefly considering his own personal relationship with the justice, he was close to him, he was going to stop president obama. Now, Mitch Mcconnell had a lot of reasons for making that decision. One, protecting his own right flank. There was a debate that night. They didnt want other republicans to get out ahead of them. But even senator mcconnell didnt know how much it was going to help donald trump. And it led to donald trump being able to hold on to conservatives and evangelicals who were concerned about his character. Republicans, as we both know, vote a lot more on the court than democrats have in the past. So it set off this cascading series of events. The court could have flipped under president obama to a liberal majority. That didnt happen. Donald trump was elected president. Republicans retained the senate. Neil gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh sit on the court today. Theres Big Decisions coming out tomorrow that will probably be 54. So huge consequences. The American Bar Association was the gold standard, the beall and endall when we were kids. Are they even involved these days . When the president says i have a list of judges, who gave him that list . The Federalist Society and the heritage foundation. And don mcgahn. Actually in the book i explain a little bit the night of the scalias death trumps going to the debate, hes on the phone with don mcgahn, who is his campaign counsel, and theyre worried that ted cruz is going to put trump on the defensive. His sister was a federal judge. People thought he might appoint liberal judges. And trump says what if i throw out some names. And that was really the origin of the famous list. They said they needed names to confirm to convince conservatives that they were going to be okay. And of course don mcgahns first name he said was Brett Kavanaugh. But they didnt end up using that name that night. But the a. B. A. , yeah, the ratings, it used to be a factor. Yeah. The republicans disregard them unless theyre really good, like where they were with gorsuch and kavanaugh. They were both considered qualified. But on some of those Lower Court Judges theyre not theyre rated badly by the a. B. A. But its dismissed. Yeah, the whole process has really, really been torn apart by the Nuclear Option in 2013. And the problem here is that in the past even though they didnt there was a filibuster of judges but it wasnt all the time. But the need for 60 votes, even though they didnt really do it, would create a consensus around some of these judges. Now you can do it with a simple majority and boom, youre through. And theyve changed the rules so much, now theyre doing them on basically twohour cycles in the senate right now. I wanted to show the folks watching the perils of turning the u. S. Senate into a confirmation machine for federal judges. Witness this hearing. Have any of you not tried a case to verdict in a courtroom . Mr. Peters. Have you ever tried a jury trial . I have not. Civil . No. Criminal . No. Bench . No. State or federal court . I have not. Andrew peterson was nominated to be on the Federal District court. Matthew im sorry. Peterson. Thats the peril. So don mcgahn in taking the counsel job, he wanted a lot of control over the picking the judges. Usually theres committees and the Justice Department and its pretty rigorous. Don had a lot of control over this and was appointing some people he had served within in peterson on the federal election commission. Don picked him and put him forward and he obviously ran into a buzzsaw there and had to withdraw. There were a few of those. Another person that don knew ran into trouble because he hadnt quite disclosed some of his ties. Hed also been a ghostbuster in one of his previous jobs. And who among us can make that claim . I wanted to have you put your take your author hat off for now. Go back to being a daily deadline journalist. Tell me what kind of a lead you would write about our breaking news tonight that Robert Mueller is indeed going to speak. If i was writing an analysis, because i probably wouldnt write the news story, id say this was a big advance for the democrats and good news for nancy pelosi. Optics alone. The democrats have struggled to make this look like an important proceeding Going Forward. You know, they had john dean as one of their that wasnt cutting it. Now theyre going to have Robert Mueller. Im not sure what Robert Muellers going to say, but hes going to be sitting there being questioned. Nancy pelosi is playing for time here. She doesnt want to start an impeachment proceeding. This gives her some more time. I dont want to get too in the weeds on the congressional schedule here, but theyre out for a week, then they come back for three weeks, and then their years really almost done. Then youre into 2020 and its hard to impeach a president i think in an election year. Theres not much time. Thats why schiff talks about their losing the clock. Gee, and i thought they worked such a rigorous schedule. Here is the book. The author, carl hulse, has been nice enough to join us tonight. Confirmation bias inside washingtons war over the Supreme Court from scalias death to justice kavanaugh. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Pleasure to have you. Before we go tonight, one additional reminder to all those watching. The first democratic debates of the cycle take place on this very network over the next two nights. Theres the hall in miami. 20 candidates. Two groups of 10 over two hours each. Tomorrow night our preview coverage comes on the air 7 00 eastern time. Ill be joined by Nicolle Wallace and all our contributors in this studio. Then at 9 00 eastern here is the slate of candidates for tomorrow night. Afterwards we come back on the air for good measure from the studio. Our live coverage will continue from 11 00 p. M. Eastern time to 1 00 a. M. Eastern time. Well do the same thing the next night as well. For now that is our broadcast for this tuesday evening. Thank you for being here with us. Good night from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. Just days after nearly 300 children were removed from a troubled texas Border Patrol facility, theres new reporting that 100 of those children have been moved back. Plus, former special counsel bob mueller has agreed to testify before congress about the russia probe. Hell be appearing before the house judiciary and intelligence committees next month. And the first 2020 democratic debate kicking off tonight in miami. Were going live to the Sunshine State for a preview of tonights event. Good morning, everybody. It is wednesday, june 26th