Passed what is in effect a ban on abortion in that state. The governor who signed it today admitted quickly because it goes against the law of our land but this bill is designed to challenge that very precedent. Tonight well look at what this means for the women of alabama, the future of roe v wade, the effect this may have on 2020. We begin in washington because there is news tonight on the continued white house efforts to push back to defy democrats in Congress Just today came a 12page letter from white House Counsel pat to House Judiciary Committee chaiman jerry nadler. Congress is not a Law Enforcement entity and has no standing to investigate the president. The white House Counsel rejected requests for the records and testimony from current and former Trump Officials that house dems need to see and go through to investigate obstruction. Goes on to write quote congressional investigations are intended to obtain information to aid and evaluate potential legislation, not to harass political opponents or pursue an unauthorized do over of exhaustive Law Enforcement investigations conducted by the department of justice. That do over reference there is a drive by reference to the Mueller Investigation. Well, tonight that house judiciary chairman, the democrat from new york jerry nadler insisted the house is not backing down. The white house and the department of justice is enabling the white house to try to evade accountability to the people. To say in effect the president is a tyrant and dictator with no limit. Well use any legal power we have with respect to mr. Muller and mr. Mcgahn, to anybody to do our job of holding administration accountable. Democrats have issued subpoenas to nearly ten current and former Trump Officials among them the secretary of the treasury Steve Mnuchin is still refusing to release six years of the president s tax returns to the house ways and Means Committee and has until friday to reply. Today mnuchin was asked about that deadline. How do you plan to respond to chairman neals claims . We havent had an official response yet. We will compile with the timing of it, i think you can pretty much guess how were going to but i havent made a decision. The democrats are trying weaponize the irs. Its a very, very dangerous issue. Mnuchin had not spoken to the president or white house about how to handle the demand for records and were learning leaders in the house are taking their time about making any more serious moves against this white house. They are holding off any kind of a dramatic floor vote to hold the attorney general or any other big name senior officials in contempt with that as our predicate, time for the lead off discussion. Robert costa for the Washington Post moderator of Washington Week on pbs and carol lennig for the Washington Post and Jonathan Lamere and former assistant u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york now with the new school here in new york. Good evening and welcome to all of you. Carol, this 12page long effort to say no to house democrats, how does it differ substantially from other letters intended to say no . I think what is most striking about it, brian, is the fairly bold claim which the white house has made in a less dramatic way in court but in this instance laying out their legal reasoning for saying the white house doesnt have to give anything to congress because congress doesnt have legitimate standing to investigate the president. Its something that a lot of legal scholars sort of spit up their coffee over because they dont believe that thats true but it does give the white house this opportunity to say hey, it looks like you just want to harass our guy, so we want to hear from you, your legitimate purpose for getting all these records and then well consider your request. Indeed. Jonathan lamere, this notion of congress is not a Law Enforcement entity was not for most of us Walking Around the earth was not a thing as of yesterday. No, no, it was not. It had become a growing talking point in recent days and at the white house memorialized. Your job is not to be a Law Enforcement agency. We realize part of Congress Responsibility is to provide oversight over the executive branch. Thats something we did know before yesterday. It was in the constitution. Weve all read it. And that they are saying with congress, house of representatives is its partisan overreach and special counsel didnt deliver the verdict you wanted and didnt find the president colluded with russia and didnt make a judgment on obstruction. So therefore this is a double jeopardy, if you will. Youre trying to get another bite at the apple and that the crossed the line of being political harassment. Democrats say this is our constitutional duty to do this and proceeding aggressively with subpoenas and Everything Else and this white house time and time again we saw today was the sharpest escalation of their strategy. To just say no. Theyre not going to, at least today go invoke blanket executive privilege. They could down the road. It would only cooperate in the most narrow of senses. This is from the oval office. The president said were not going to cooperate, were going to stonewall on every front whether thats witness testimony, underlying evidence of the Mueller Report or the president s tax returns. Theyre just going to say no to everything democrats want. As luck would have it, we have a really good lawyer that gets the next question. Is any of this legally sustainable in your view and if not, why not . No. So, i mean, the short answer is no. It doesnt mean there arent arguments that are valid arguments that can be made in certain circumstances including you could imagine the statute on tax returns is very explicit that says shall. That doesnt mean there arent constitutional arguments about peoples ability to say but im not. Its just that they dont necessarily apply here i think. But certainly you can make arguments. I think where it really gets complicated is trump doesnt have any good arguments on this. Most of this is communications rather than constitution and that is the primary point here. You know, weve had previous administrations that have said we are not going to give you congress these things youve asked for in the context of the Obama Administration and the gun walking case of fast and furious where atf, you know, did a gun walking exercise to try to track guns into mexico. Turned out they got used to kill a Border Patrol agent. The Republican Congress very aggressively started investigating the department of justice atf and ended up in a contempt vote against eric holder. But the point is, in this instance, eric holder and the department of justice had actually turned over a large amount of information and documents to congress. It was only withholding some communications. Even in that case court said Amy Jackson Berman you might remember from some of the mueller cases said sorry white house, sorry department of justice, you do have to turn those over. Required litigation. My point is fighting about it is not what is anti constitutional. It is fighting about everything. Its the absolute stonewalling and the refusal to acknowledge congress has any Oversight Authority and the conflation. Congress standard is not a criminal standard. Point of personal privilege that has to do with robert costa who got to return to the state where he was educated in college. Back home again in indiana where today they buried former senator dick luger, a rare republican globalist clearly prom another era. On capitol hill. And bob, im asking because i know you happen to be the reporting pool on Board Air Force 2 with our Vice President mitch mcconnell. The majority leader in the u. S. Senate and for good measure, the chief justice. What, if anything, did you glean about the status of the highflying gop . Quite a group on air force two today. It was notable as the Pool Reporter to notice that chief Justice Robert sat away from the congressional delegation, was careful to not have any kind of interactions beyond hello and a pleased to see you to the Vice President and mrs. Pence. You could see, even though i didnt speak to him the chief justice was being quite careful understanding the dynamic of a reporter watching and having this group in air force two. With regard to the political question, brian, when you talk to white house officials, they say they want this fight with the democrats because when the democrats are talking about obstruction and talking about subpoenas, they are not talking about the trade war. They are not talking about tariffs and how farmers in the swing states and midwest may be feeling the pain and this for the republicans is a political winner because they feel now that the Mueller Report is over, they are just going to taunt the democrats legally and politically as much as possible and when they heard about the attorney general making his remark to Speaker Pelosi wearing handcuffs in terms of holding him in contempt and maybe putting him in prison arresting him, they loved it. Thats the mood inside of this west wing. Let me ask you this about the Democratic Base and your colleagues at Washington Post wrote about this today. Pelosi told democrats in a closed door caucus meeting wednesday morning to stick to their policy agenda ahead of the 2020 election rather than initiate impeachment proceedings and not a single lawmaker challenged her. This is so interesting, robert, because the rank and file has been a little critical and a little frustrated. They have heard a lot of crickets from leadership. Last we heard from House Judiciary Committee was the bucket of chicken incident which was chairman malpractice in hindsight. The speaker full speed ahead it is agenda all the way. And they also know this speaker does not get enough credit for her use of political power. We always talk about President Trump having his party within his grip. Democrats privately constantly tell me Speaker Pelosi is the tough presence inside of the Democratic Party holding back this Committee Chairman and rank and file saying focus on 2020. Focus on the swing state infrastructure, economy, health care, pursuing every kind of oversight possible but not giving republicans the political things they need to impeach. She brought them back from the wilderness. Wins in 06, losing the gavel in 10, comes back years later. They dont have any other figure to trust on the big picture strategy other than speaker pa pelosi. Great point. Carol, to your bailiwick, is that something they can still have and hold and bring out later . Absolutely, brian. They did even though it was 12 pages of legal arguments, they avoided that assertion which has to be formally made by the president. In a way, that is just putting down the court the ultimate reckoning and the fight. If youre going to assert privilege and someone is going to dispute it, then we move quickly to contempt. Well see where this ends up going but i think that bob is exactly right about pelosis political smarts and avoiding the word impeachment. In a way that 12page letter is baiting the democrats. If you really want these records, you know, you can always open an impeachment proceeding because the argument for demanding the records is a lot stronger legally to get them right away in that setting but pelosi is holding them back saying we dont have an American Public that is convinced that is the way to go. And as she says, trump in her view will selfimpeach with his own actions and with democrats trying to criticize him all the way until november. Maya wiley, speaking of baiting the democrats, im going to play something for you from the chairman of the senate Judiciary Committee. What you see happening is congressional committees are now beginning to take the place of prosecutors and thats dangerous for us all and if i were don juniors lawyer i would be reluctant to put him on the Intel Committee in the Senate Running for president of the united states. Its just a wednesday in 2019 repeated signals from the chairman of senate Judiciary Committee to the son of the president , dont respond to the subpoena, dont you dare come back here. Right. The lesson from the don jr. Subpoena from senate intel is, fight like hell despite the fact you have no legal grounds. You are a private citizen. You, too, can thwart congress and you can thwart Congress Despite the fact there is a Public Record that suggests you lied directly. And were not talking about russia now. Were talking about you lied to congress when you said you were not aware that other countries foreign governments were trying to support the campaign of donald trump when he met in august 2016 with a representative representing saudi arabia and united arab emirates, that was pledging support for the campaign, foreign nationals trying to find ways to influence a campaign, that is not, you cant even make an argument that that falls under the Mueller Investigation and you cannot make an argument that donald trump junior is a part of the white house. What we have seen is a white house that has not just overstepped on and fundamentally undermined a Constitutional Order established by the founders of this country, we have this now extending into private citizenry. Thwarting congress, even when there is evidence of perjury winning that round and here is why i think so much of the Democratic Base that is really quite frankly concerned about not having impeachment putting aside the very important political prowess of nancy pelosi, if not now when . When in this country does congress say politics aside, we have to protect the Constitutional Order and the prerogatives of congress. And i think this is a perfect example of where that example arises. Jonathan lamere, lets take up that last point. Rick wilson was on this network. Weve had him on this broadcast before. His contention is trump is hoping, praying he wont get nicked in the senate. Wanting to run as a victim, wanting to fund raise on it. Its all his Political Social Media life has been predicated on. Knowing him as you do knowing his character as you do, does that much up with known reality . It does. I think that the president himself we know from reporting had conversations with Speaker Pelosi where hes like youre not going impeach me. Right . I think there is some degree of concern that he would be afraid that would be the first line in his political obituary, how hes remembered in the history books even though those around him tactically think that is the best thing to happen to him. Yes, first of all, we known hes born to play the verdict role and sit there and say the system is rigged. The deep state is against me. Look, im being treated unfairly. We heard that time and time again with the candidate and commander in chief but they feel like they can republicans feel like they can go to the democrats into this. They think if they do commence with impeachment talk and proceedings, they can say look, this is overreach. This is special counsel mueller did not come back with a guilty verdict and youre still going down the lines and feel like the American People will get tired of this and fatigued and start to take the president s side and feel like that the the best way he can run. He can raise money and barn storm against it and say look at the economy and what ive done yet they are still trying to unfairly bring me down. So thats a fight the white house absolutely wants. Robert costa, youve been elected to deliver the last word. Take us to commercial break and that is where are we tonight in this administration keeping in mind trade war with china, threats of a hot war with iran, which is our very next segment. Lets not forget things like venezuela, lets not forget the coming reelection fight. We used to talk in 2017 about who is in the president s ear, steve bannon, jared kushner, someone else in congress at the time. Based on my reporting and conversations, its the president alone driving the trade discussions, hold the line, even if the market feels a lot of unease, hold the line, listen to Peter Navarro but its really about the president moving forward on that on foreign policy, a hawk is in his ear but the president is saying im not really keen to do intervention at this time in venezuela or iran and when it comes to the dealings with congress, fight them all, reject everything. Its President Trump just like he was in that 26th floor of trump tower directing the scene. Robert costa and the rest of our always excellent friends and contributors, cant thank you you enough. Really appreciate you starting off our conversation tonight and coming up, this talk of threats from iran, real or imagined . Were going to talk to a veteran correspondent who sees parallels to the past and later, that just signed alabama abortion law, the most extreme in our nation appears to be designed for just one thing. The 11th hour is just getting under way on this wednesday night. Did you know comcast business goes beyond fast with a gigspeed network. Complete internet reliability. Advanced voice solutions. Wifi to keep everyone connected. Video monitoring. Thats huge. Did you guys know we did all this stuff . No. Im not even done yet. Wow. Business tv. Cloud apps and support. Comcast business goes beyond at t. Start with internet and voice for just 59. 90 a month. Its everything a Small Business owner needs. Comcast business. Beyond fast. The u. S. State department ordered all nonemergency personnel to leave the u. S. Embassy in baghdad and our consulate in northern iraq. Pause for just a second and remember, this is the kind of thing flying americans out of embassies we usually hear about when our people are in a dire situation overseas. This is important. Senior state Department Officials say they see a quote imminent threat from iranian proxies. The u. S. Already has an aircraft strike force in the area and there has already been loose talk of a potential force of 120,000 u. S. Troops to the region should iran attack u. S. Forces and now both republicans and democrats in congress would like answers including trumps very good friend Lindsey Graham. Removing personnel from embassies and consulates is clearly a serious move by the state department they feel the threat. And i would urge the state department and d. O. D. To come down here and explain to us what is going on because i have no idea what the threat stream is beyond what i read in the paper. Graham got his wish. Tomorrow the Trump Administration will brief congressional leaders. That will be interesting. The Washington Post reporting President Trump is frustrated with top advisors who he thinks could be rushing the u. S. Into a military confrontation with iran. And we quote, trump grew angry last week and over the weekend about what he sees as warlike planning that is getting ahead of his own thinking said a Senior Administration official with knowledge of conversations trump had regarding john bolton and secretary of state mike pompeo, thats a sentence. They are getting way out ahead of themselves and trump is annoyed the official said. There was a scramble for bolton and pompeo and others to get on the same page. Bolton who advocated regime change in iran before joining the white house last year is just in a different place from trump although the president has been a fierce critic of iran. Since long before he hired bolton. Trump wants to talk to the iranians, he wants a deal and is open to negotiation. With the iranian government. Back with us, Andrea Mitchell, our nbc news chief Foreign Affairs correspondent, the host of Andrea Mitchell reports. Ill ask this straight up, do you believe that reporting in the Washington Post . Absolutely. It was signalled by the president himself when he said just a few days ago that jon bolton is more hawkish than he is and he tempers john bolton and there are other doves around him so that he is the decider. That was a rebuff and pointed one at that. Then the president also pushed back on that New York Times report that one of the options put out by the pentagon was 120,000 troops. It didnt explain that thats 120,000 total more than the 50 or 60,000 already in the region so not full deployment of 120,000 and that was a highend option but he said that was fake news, not true and he said if were really serious ill send a hell of a lot more. Again, that kind of bluster and bluff, maybe he feels that it worked at least in part to get kim jongun to the negotiating table. It hasnt worked to get a deal or any kind of denuclearization. Its not going to work with iran. What hes ignoring is the aggressive steps that his own pompeo, bolton have taken against iran, which iran in has viewed as america is provocative. And the europeans are more sympathetic to iran in this measure than to the u. S. They acknowledge that iran has been guilty of bad behavior regionally in all sorts of ways but in terms of the nuclear threat, they are on the side of iran, not the united states. Im glad you mentioned that. 120,000 figure again. The president first called fake news and said i would never send so few. Today, you talk with senator tim kaine with the commonwealth of virginia, he ran as Vice President candidate with hillary clinton. He happens to be part of a military family and he talked about this notion of tossing out the figure of 120,000. Well discuss it on the other side. My virginia families, my military families suffered through repeated deployments. Deployment after deployment after deployment to the middle east and if this is bluff talk by the president , they dont take that as a bluff. They take that as a very existential challenge to their family lives. Is there going to be another war in the middle east . Another series of deployments . Its been for the last 18 years. Are we going to have a multiyearlong war with more deployments . Thats psychologically terrorizing to military families to loosely throw around notions of deployments. I was really glad he made that point. It the easiest thing to toss out from the cheap seats and confines of washington d. C. Separate question, hasnt john bolton wanted to pave iran for decades . Absolutely. In fact, when before he became National Security advisor, he gave a speech in paris for the mek, the exiled group of anti regime, antitehran activists. And called for regime change. Saying you finally have a president in trump whos also in favor of regime change. Pompeo is in favor of regime change and access of saudi arabia and the uae, all pushing that as well. So the real fear in europe now, which did not buy john boltons intel when he took that diversion in the middle of the night they heard he was on his way to brussels, not to moscow, to barge in and charge into their meeting with them saying they were not going to give him a chance to address all of the europeans so he met individual with the germans, french and brits but they didnt buy what he was trying to sell there and the fact is that they are very skeptical. They were burned in 2003 as were many people in the media, the secretary of state, a lot of people bought the intelligence arguments from people like john bolton who was in the administration then. And so there is a lot of skepticism. I should point out there was a big push back. We got a briefing over at the state department from officials that we cannot name but these officials said look, they really are threats and these were veteran diplomats, not just people who had just come in and they said there is a threat stream not related to the tankers that there is no evidence, real hard evidence iran was behind that. In the last week, there has been new intelligence. Tonight the New York Times posting that satellite imagery picked up pictures of the iranian and military forces the ircg loading missiles, fully made missiles on to small boats in the persian gulf. We havent seen this evidence. They havent presented the evidence to congress or allies yet so we dont know again whether this has been, there is a real credibility factor with bolton, pompeo and others who have called for regime change in the past. With americas track record here, weve got a problem. And people in the state department know that there is a lot of skepticism about what they are claiming. They say that the draw down in baghdad was necessary as well as in erbil. Thats also very suspicious. Youve been there. Ive been there. This is the most heavily fortified embassy in the world. Its very hard to understand why a post such as baghdad, where theres no family, no dependents, only people who are supposed to be essential, why they would have that drawdown. That seemed more symbolic than real. That was really it just it seemed to be part of a threat tempo. The real problem here is congress has not been briefed. There will be a briefing for the gang of eight tomorrow but tim kaine wont be in that briefing. Others, Lindsey Graham wont be in that briefing and the fact that the Foreign Relations and intelligence committees have not been briefed tells you how much distrust there is even among some republicans and this white house over the lack of information. They dont feel they have to brief them on chinese tariffs before he announces them. Its just so different than the man you were talking about earlier with bob costa, someone i revered and you knew so well. Dick luger. Richard luger would never have tolerated this. The one person we wanted to hear from on this story and youre looking at her. Andrea mitchell, thanks for joining us tonight. Coming up, why the governor of alabama would sign a restrictive abortion law and call it unenforceable. Alabamas new abortion law, the strictest in our country, is setting up a direct challenge to roe v wade in the Supreme Court. Thats what it was designed to do. Governor kay ivy signed this law. The ban of abortions on all stages of pregnancy. The only exception here is if the mothers life is in jeopardy. Its similar to bills in georgia, ohio, mississippi, kentucky except it goes further. This law does not include exceptions for rape and incest and carries a felony charge for doctors punishable by a sentence of up to 99 years in prison. Lets be frank and put this another way. A rapist in alabama will get a lighter sentence than the doctor called to end an unwanted pregnancy that might result from the rape. This will be challenged in court which is ultimately the point. So in our mind, in my mind, this bill is to address roe versus wade and to let hopefully that decision go back to the states so that states can make the laws that are most appropriate for their people. And before our conversation here tonight, just a reminder of where the American People stand on this issue. According to this gallup poll, 79 of adults say abortion should be legal. And for more we welcome to the broadcast tonight Melissa Murray, professor of law at nyu, former clerk to then judge sonia and testified during the kavanaugh confirmation hearings and stephanie, president of emilys list, an organization that works to elect Democratic Women who support reproductive rights. Good evening and welcome to you both. Counselor, i want to start here in new york by showing you what jeff toobin said on cnn and having you react to it. Donald trump said in the third debate with hillary clinton, if i get two or more appointments to the Supreme Court, automatically thats the word he used, automatically roe v wade will be overturned and i think the president was exactly right. Roe v wade is gone and every woman in alabama who gets pregnant is going to be forced to give birth soon and thats going to be true in alabama and its going to be true in missouri and its going to be true probably in georgia and thats what the law is because thats what the president ial election was about in part last time. Agree or disagree and why . So i disagree slightly. I think jeff toobin is right President Trump made a promise to the American People he would appoint people that would overturn roe versus wade and the chief card is john roberts throughout his tenure as chief justice made clear that he takes very seriously the institutional reputation of the court. If the court is seen as overly partisan as being captured by the president of the administration, thats not great. The court has already been hobbled by the debacle of the kavanaugh hearings. And there is a wide swath that thinks the court is partisan to decide a question like the continued viability of roe versus wade would give some pause to chief Justice Roberts and again, weve seen that in other cases from this term and i think were likely to see it going forward. Thats not to say abortion is in the clear. I think what we are going to see is the court taking again more incremental steps to hollow out roe and im not sure thats a good outcome for the American People. In fact, overruling roe would have a galvanizing effect that would take this into the 2020 election and put it into the American People and thats what chief Justice Roberts doesnt want. Thats for sure. Lets talk about the intersection of politics and law and for you, im going to play a graduate of the Yale Law School named pat roberts. I think alabama has gone too far. Theyve passed a law that would give a 99year prison sentence to people that commit abortion. There is no exception for rape or incest. Its an extreme law and they want to challenge roe versus wade, but my humble view is this is not the case we want to bring to the Supreme Court. Because i think this one will lose. Pat roberts son, Yale Law School graduate, nonetheless. So stephanie, thats an interesting notion that this piece of legislation hand carved to go to the Supreme Court is in his view even too severe. The truth is that the Republican Party is completely focused on figuring out how to overturn roe v wade. That is the important part of this. This alabama bill now law is clearly unconstitutional and so damaging for women. There are laws coming out of georgia, out of ohio, out of mississippi. We had over 30 measures passed by republican legislatures. Anti choice, trump legislatures that are driving this to overturn roe. I think whats most important here is the number you started with. 79 of americans believe that roe v wade should stand as law of the land as it is today, and so for the moment of galvanizing, i believe what happened yesterday in alabama, what happened last week in georgia has ignited a new fire across this country in so many women and men who care very, very deeply about this and want to ensure that women have access to reproductive justice. They are trying to ban abortion completely. That is not where the American People are and i do think this will be a major issue in the 2020 election and were talking about election that i believe could be an electorate of 54 women and i think were going to see higher turnout over this. Here is the bigger point. It not just about politics. Women are getting hurt. Right now in states where there is barely any access already and we have to really think about the policy makers sitting at our Decision Making tables making these laws and its for us to stand up and find the good candidates who are going to fight for reproductive justice and fight for women and hold these folks accountable. Legislatures matter and i think every voter in this country has to think about who is representing them today and im proud to be at an organization completely committed to electing prochoice women and we need it more than ever and it is time. Counselor, take 30 seconds. When toobin says women have to carry a pregnancy to term, explain to our viewers, does this supersede in any states the law of the land until and unless there can be a challenge to the holding of roe versus wade . So in states that have more liberal abortion laws, those laws were made in place. Terry collins who is the alabama legislator who introduced this bill said the whole point of this is to make laws appropriate for the people and citizenry of each state. This is alabamas take on it. It does not necessarily affect individuals in new york. That said, there will be a lot of reproductive tourism if this law goes into effect in alabama and by that, youll see women in alabama becoming reproductive refugees fleeing to other states where there are more liberal, more accommodating abortion laws. This changes the landscape. Stephanie is exactly right. The whole purpose of this and activity that weve seen around abortion in this term has really been about this change in climate. They anticipate a more hospital court, whether thats at the Supreme Court and the lower courts, and legislating to Supreme Court and legislating to put this issue in front of the judges. Thanks to you both. Well try to replay this entire conversation as this goes down the road to Melissa Murray and stephanie, our thanks. Coming up, this nation has been through a lot. Were just talking about so far this week. We have a Pulitzer Prize winner to tell us how much capacity we have exactly. We need a reminder on nights like tonight, its only wednesday and weve already seen stunning headlines this week on a range of issues. With us tonight to talk about all of it, david, Pulitzer Prize winning reporter, president ial biographer and veteran of the Washington Post and also happens to be the author of his newest work, it is called a Good American family. The red scare and my father. David, were very happy to have you on the broadcast. By way of explaining your familys history in the mccarthy era, how does that era look right about now . How bad has it been because these days we have normalized a whole lot of fear and loathing and anxiety. Well, there certainly are echoes from the 1950s to today. Including the manipulation of fear as a political weapon the demonization of outside groups, questions about what it means to be an american and what it means to be patriotic. But theres one huge difference between then and now. It was called the mccarthy era, named for Joseph Mccarthy, the senator from wisconsin. He was just a senator. He had many of the same attributes as donald trump, sort of a very a salesmanship ability to ride the wave of whatever he wanted at that point. He wasnt really an idealogue. But he found his issue and wrote it, much as donald trump is not really an idiolog, but is more about himself. Donald trump is a president , and mccarthy was only a senator. Huge difference in power there. One other major difference. In the early 1950s you had margaret j. Smith speaking out against him, and eisenhower working against him and one of the figures in my book, Charles Potter of michigan, elected to the senate and worked with Joseph Mccarthy on his subcommittee, until he saw what was going on in the machinations of mccarthy and later wrote a book called days of shame regretting what happened during that era. I wonder two things, where is the margaret j. Smith today and what republican is going to write that book days of shame. You also get to something else. Im sitting here thinking that eisenhower really took his time. Yes. And he hung back while a lot of this was going on. History is judging people right now during this period were living through. History is judging a good many members of the senate and house and that, of course, is part of the history of the era youve written about. Youre right about eisenhower. He used Joseph Mccarthy in 1952 in his election, campaigned with him up in appleton, wisconsin where mccarthy was from but then slowly as mccarthy started turning on the army, which was ease it changed and he turned against him. He always thought mccarthy was loony but he was using him for political purposes. I see that codependence today. You look at the events of this week and whats going on in iran and elsewhere. And you see hawks, long time hawks using donald trump to do their own bidding. Just as you saw conservatives in congress support donald trump and allow him to sort of develop this imperial, if not autocratic presidency because theyre getting what they want in terms of conservative judges and throwbacks of regulations and so on. So theres this odd codependency where trump is becoming more and more of an authoritarian figure and people who really dont like that are nonetheless using it for their own purposes. David maraniss has written about subjects as desperate as bill clinton and the city of detroit and by all accounts he has focused his amazing intellect on his own family, called a Good American family, the latest piece of work by this Pulitzer Prize winner. Always a pleasure to have you on. Thank you, brian. Could it really be true that the number of democrats in the race for president is going to hit 23 tomorrow morning . About the battle in washington youve spoken about, youve been a very vocal critic of President Trumps and there is talk already that you may be considering a run for president in 2020. Will you rule that out, youre shaking your head no, but will you rule that out right here and pledge to new york city voters that you will remain in office all four years should they give you a im running for one thing and one thing only, for reelection as mayor of new york city, its my honor to be mayor of this great city. I want to serve four more years. Will you pledge to serve for four more years . I will pledge. Bill de blasio pledging to serve out his term as new york city mayor and by all accounts hes still going to get that chance. A High School Journalist broke the story today that the new york mayor will apparently announce tomorrow on Good Morning America before heading to iowa where the Host Organization promptly misspelled de blasios name and that very same smooth running political machine is apparently poised in the morning to make bill de blasio our 23rd democrat in the race. He has, shall we call them, popularity issues, not just because he roots for the red sox in the home of the yankees and mets. His own Staff Members have called him stubborn, arrogant and entitled. Regular citizens seem to agree. A quinnipiac poll found three quarters of new yorkers dont want him to run. The new York Magazine headline from this past week reads who hasnt told bill de blasio that he shouldnt run for president . Apparently not enough people. Only 8. 5 of new yorkers voted for bill de blasio, but thats how elections work here. A lot of other things dont work here. And a lot of things look really bad here. And they look really bad if you live in iowa, New Hampshire or south carolina. On the upside, the pizza here in new york is still the greatest in the world and totally worth the effort to get to that perfect slice. That is our broadcast for tonight. We thank you so much for being here with us, and good night from our nbc news headquarters. In where else . New york. Tonight on all in this is the white house claim ing that the president is a king. The white house told congress they cannot investigate the president. For looks like a redo. The new claim in a letter from the white house with congressman jamie raskin and senator chris van hollen. Plus, senator Tammy Duckworth on what looks like a white house on attempt to provoke a war with it iran. Iran. And outrage over alabama. Women health care is under attack. H its wrong and we will fight back. Even some on the right say the attack on legal abortion ase gone too far. Le i think alabama has gone toor far. All in starts now