Romney pens a scathing oped before being sworn in as a u. S. Senator. And the field of 2020 democrats begins to emerge. One candidate announces shes running and shes heading to iowa this week. The 11th hour on a wednesday night starts right now. Good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. Im Steve Kornacki in for brian williams, who will be back tomorrow. Day 713 of the Trump Administration, and we are just hours away now from the dawn of a new day for this president. Hes about to enter a brand new political reality, one that could prove rougher than what hes experienced over the past two years. Tomorrow democrats will take control of the u. S. House. Leader nancy pelosi is the presumptive speaker and there are clear signs when it comes to her party she is firmly in control. The plaque is not yet up but the furniture was moving this afternoon. This new era of divided government comes as we head into what will be day 13 of the partial government shutdown, affecting nearly 800,000 government workers. Today the Senate Chaplain offered a prayer to end the stalemate. Rise mercifully upon our darkened hearts and deliver us from the trench warfare of yet another government shutdown. President trump, though, is making it clear he is not backing down on his demand that Congress Fund a wall on the mexican border. Is there a number below 5 billion that you might be willing to accept in order to reopen the government and get this thing moving forward . Well, id rather not say it. How long do you think the governments going to stay partially shut down . How long are you willing to keep the government shut down as long as it takes. Late this afternoon trump hosted nancy pelosi along with top congressional leaders from both parties in the white house situation room for what the administration called a briefing on the border wall with Homeland Security officials. From all accounts it did little to bring about an end to the shutdown. Pelosi said the house intends to bring up legislation tomorrow to reopen the government, measures that will not include funding for a wall. And Senate Minority leader Chuck Schumer continued to blame trump. At our last meeting the president said i am going to shut the government down. They are now feeling the heat. It is not helping the president. It is not helping the republicans to be the owners of this shutdown. Today we gave them an opportunity to get out of that. Were asking the president to open up government. We are giving him a republican path to do that. Why would he not do it . Two sources familiar with the meeting tell nbc news that when schumer repeatedly asked President Trump why he would not support the passage of funding measures not related to the wall at one point trump responded i would look foolish if i did that. Tonight Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell said the senate will not take up the democrats spending package. The president was quoted as saying he wants to meet with congressional leaders again on friday. Hours ago he posted this on twitter. I remain ready and willing to work with democrats to pass a trump is also facing a new challenge from an incoming republican senator from utah. Mitt romney. Romney of course the 2012 republican president ial nominee. He wrote an oped in the Washington Post today criticizing trump. Romney concedes he supports some of trumps decisions but also writes, on balance, his conduct over the past two years is evidence that the president has not risen to the mantle of the office. With the nation so divided, resentful and angry, president ial leadership and qualities of character sin dispensable. And it is in this province where the incumbents shortfall has been most glaring. Didnt take long for trump to fire back on twitter. Here we go with mitt romney but so fast. Question will be is he a flake . When asked about romney at todays Cabinet Meeting trump drove home his team player theme. The Washington Posts robert costa wholl join us in a moment captured the impact of romneys movying romneys assertion of independence is a thunder clap in the gop thrusting him forward as trumps highestprofile republican foil in the new congress. In stoking talk of trumps vulnerability to a new challenger for the partys 2020 nomination. In an interview today romney seemed to leave open the possibility of endorsing a trump challenger in 2020. I havent decided who im going tone doris in 2020. I think its early to make that decision and i want to see what the alternatives are. As trump prepares for what could be some monumental changes in the second half of his first term, hes also juggling transitions within his inner circle. Acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney has newly taken over for john kelly. Theres also the brand new acting defense secretary, patrick shanahan. And tonight we learned that william barr, trumps choice for attorney general, whos been critical of the mueller investigation, will begin his confirmation hearings in the senate on january 15th. Lets bring in our leadoff panel for a wednesday night. Robert costa, National Political reporter for the Washington Post and moderator of Washington Week on pbs. A. B. Stoddard, column exist associate editor at real clear politics. And nancy cook, White House Reporter for politico. Thanks to all of you for being with us. Nancy, you splenty of time at the white house today. Let me lead off with you. The world changes in washington a couple hours from now. Democrats for the first time in eight years will xwin be the Majority Party in the house. They say one of the first things theyll do is pass legislation to reopen the government. Mitch mcconnell, the republican leader in the senate, the majority leader, says thats dead on arrival in the senate. So if thats what plays out tomorrow, what would then happen after that . Well, i think whats going to happen is were going to see republicans at least go back to the white house on friday. You know, republican congressional leadership will go back and try to come up with some deal. It was so interesting being at the white house today because i dont think its entirely sunk in that the democrats are taking over tomorrow and that its not necessarily in their interest to give trump all the border wall funding or any border wall funding that they seek. Theres definitely a sense that the administration, theyre not totally prepared for that and theyre starting to feel some heat. But i dont think its sunk in with trump just the array of challenges that hes going to face in the coming weeks from the special investigation, from the house democrats. You know, republicans have so much fallen in line with trump for these last two years that i think the Administration Just hasnt really conceived yet of the problems theyre going to face. Robert, just in terms of watching trumps behavior, how hes handled and sort of postured his way through this shutdown the last two weeks or so, im curious what your sense of it is. Is this a situation where he perceives a political advantage and he actually wants to extend this a little bit possibly or is this a situation where hes beginning to see some Political Risk and hes looking for a way out but perhaps struggling to find one . If you look at the shutdown as a chess game, as a political challenge for President Trump, talking to white house officials today and outside advisers to the president , they say its clear the president is losing the shutdown fight. Its unlikely for him to get that 5 billion he wants for the border wall. But they are quick to add that the president s playing a different game in their eyes, that hes playing to try to keep the Republican Base with him in 2019. That he knows hes not going to probably get what he wants on the wall this time around but with Robert Mueller on the horizon, all these subpoenas flying from house democrats, nancy pelosi ascendant as the incoming house speaker, its more important for him to signal to his core voter that hes fighting for his signature promise even if he doesnt get there in the end. Along those lines on fox news tonight, on Sean Hannitys show, Lindsey Graham, republican senator from south carolina, whos developed a fairly close relationship with donald trump these past two years, he had this to say on the subject. They wont give a dime to this president because they want him to fail. Walls work. Trump said lets make a deal. Nancy pelosi and Chuck Schumer said go to hell. Hes not going to sign a bill that doesnt have money for the wall. If he gives in now, thats the end of 2019 in terms of him being an effective president. Thats probably the end of his presidency. A. B. Stoddard, if the positions out right now and have been for a while and you heard President Trump reiterate it today, 5. 6 billion for a wall, and the democratic position is the wall is a nonstarter, its immoral, zero dollars for the wall, to get out of this at some point and reopen the government what is the minimum that trump needs to show for this to tell the Republican Base he got something . Is just having the fight even if he ends up with nothing to show for it and reopens the government on democratic terms, would that be seen as acceptable to the Republican Base . Thats whats so interesting is he pulled back from what was passed by voice vote in the senate, lets punt this till february 8th. It wasnt i dont get any wall funding. Its lets not shut the government down over the christmas holidays. The reaction from his conservative supporters in talk radio and conservative media scared him so badly that he turned around after the senators had gotten on airplanes to go home for christmas and changed his mind. Now hes dug in and he says its still slats and he says its only a wall that will work, then he says he needs the money, we need to desperately, then he says mexico is paying for the wall, most of its already been built. He is all over the place on that in this way that he usually is where he says well see what happens, it could be quick, it could be long. I think he wants to give himself some room to the point that roberts making, that if he has to fold in the end hes going to call whatever comes across the finish line money for a wall even if its 1. 8 billion and hes going to say he got other stuff and its all going to work out fine and hes probably in a fight for fightings sake. That said, what Lindsey Graham is saying is a bit dramatic, that it could end his presidency. I dont think theres a way hes going to get what hes asking for, and i think President Trump knows that. But i do think hes just savoring the fight. He does not see a down side politically to a shutdown even though there are down sides. He doesnt really know the cost. I think Senate Republicans will ultimately make him feel the heat on this because theyll get sick of nancy pelosi passing bills in the house side and sending them over there and they wont have a chance to vote for anything to reopen the government. But i think the president knows ultimately hes going to brand it as a win and hes going to end it when he feels like it. But i think that that makes perfect sense, that he likes to stay on offense and he doesnt really care about the resolution. He likes the fight and thats what hes engaged in right now. In fact, just on this subject in the last few seconds, put it up on the screen, the president just tweeting out, sadly, he writes, there can be no real Border Security without the wall. The president making that statement again on twitter just in the last few seconds. Well, nancy, in terms of that potential middle ground i guess if you want to call it that that a. B. s outlining there, where the democratic position is no money for the wall but they have been willing to talk about money for Border Security, Border Security that can include some form of fencing, some form of enhanced fencing, the president sometimes saying wall, certainly in his tweet right now saying wall, but also talking in terms of a slat fencing, things like that, at other times. In terms of that potential middle ground in terms of the democrats taking control of the house tomorrow and this continuing to linger, has the democratic position on this changed at all . I know nancy pelosi and Democratic Leaders have been getting some pressure from activists on the left to withdraw even that offer of any money for Border Security and for fencing to the president. I dont really think that the democrats at this point politically see a lot of up side in negotiating. I think that az talk to folks in the white house today and republicans close to the white house, for me what ill be watching is next week. That is when theres the next pay period. And that is going to be a pay period when federal workers dont get paid. So i think that will be a pressure period next week for both parties because 80 of federal workers live outside of washington. That will be a Pressure Point for democrats and a Pressure Point for trump as well. I think the white house definitely wants to put the democrats offensive the defensive, excuse me, and make it look like theyre soft on immigration, soft on Border Security. But at this point given the democratic base, given the outcome of the midterms, i just dont see the democrats folding and giving trump a ton more money for the border wall. They just need to give him a little bit and give him a way to call it a wall in some way and thats where i think the compromise will lie. We mentioned as well the rumblings being heard from the incoming senator from utah, mitt romney, former president ial nominee, someone very critical of donald trump during the 2016 campaign. Robert costa, you write about this new role hes poised to play here, romney in the senate being certainly the most visible potentially critical voice in washington, republican voice when it comes to donald trump and his presidency. I guess my question is maybe we can put this up on the screen. If you look at Donald Trumps standing with Republican Voters as he enters year three of his presidency, i am struck by this. Just with his own party that number there, 88 , we show it up on the screen, thats his Approval Rating with republicans. Thats pretty much as high as any modern president s been at this point with his own party. Does romney pose a threat to trump standing with Republican Voters or is this likely to be a continuation of what weve seen for two years where for lack of a better term maybe it resonates with never trump pundits and thats it . At this moment the polling, as you indicate there, shows that President Trump is in a very strong position with Republican Voters for 2020. Why romney matters is that over the last six months talking to never trump conservatives and republicans it would be calling up john weaver, who works for the Ohio Governor john kasich, or bill kristol, and they really didnt seem to have a lot of options besides governor kasich of ohio for 2020 challenger. Romneys entering into this conversation now with this oped in the Washington Post, giving permission, as kristol told me today, for donors throughout the party, people who are calling up spencer zwik, romneys top finance guy, and saying maybe romney to be a 2020 challenger. Not if President Trumps at 85 , 90 with gop voters. This is all about laying the foundation for a 2020 challenge should Robert Muellers investigation hobble the trump presidency, should President Trump leave office for some reason. This is all about romney setting in motion something that could happen. Hes not moving formally toward a race, but this is giving traction, giving Political Capital to a movement in the Republican Party, that never truf bloc that had all but become stagnant. It does, a. B. , play out sort of the long game that roberts outlining there, if this mueller situation were to take trump out of the 2020 equation somehow. If youre romney or if youre somebody like him and that happens to be your thinking or part of your thinking right now, is there a possibility that by making a move like this at this point you end up alienating a huge part of the Republican Party thats loyal to trump so that even if trump is gone they remember and they hold it against you . I think thats a great point, steve. The devotion to President Trump among primary voters particularly in the Republican Party is so durable and that is not only because the party has really changed, the voting base of the party has changed. Its not embracing limited government and spending cuts and all of the things that the party stood for until trump. But also many republicans have left the party. So those numbers are its more of a pure base at 81 , 85 approval. And theyre very angry with mitt romney today. And every one of us heard about mitt romney, you know, he wanted to be trumps secretary of state and then didnt speak a lot about his feelings about trump while running for senate this last year in utah. And so and so why come out now with this broadside . So they will remember. And i think it will be very hard for someone like romney running from the old Republican Party that barely really exists last year in utah. And so and so why come out now with this broadside . So they will remember. And i think it will be very hard for someone like romney running from the old Republican Party that barely really exists anymore to succeed in a primary challenge against trump. Unless what robert outlines comes to pass where hes just completely crippled by the investigation and what comes out of it or he decides to just take a pass and leave. A. B. Stoddard, robert costa, nancy cook, thank you all for being with us. And coming up, President Trump says he would have made a great general after he rewrites history on the departure of james mattis. And later, an american accused of espionage in russia visited tonight by the u. S. Ambassador. But paul whelan a spy or the victim of russian revenge . The 11th hour just Getting Started on a wednesday night. W . o hey, batter, batter, batter, batter. [ crowd cheers ] like everyone, i lead a busy life. But i know the importance of having time to do what you love. At comcast we know our customers time is valuable. Thats why we have 2hour appointment windows, including nights and weekends. So you can do more of what you love. My name is tito, and im a techhouse manager at comcast. Were working to make things simple, easy and awesome. It is roughly 90minute long pool spray this afternoon President Trump also spoke extensively about syria and afghanistan. On syria the president now says u. S. Troops will leave over a period of time but didnt give specifics. Trump also criticized his now former defense secretary james mattis, whom he forced out early last week before his planned departure date of february 28th. The president said he was not happy with mattiss role in overseeing the role in afghanistan. We should point out that mattis was not fired. He resigned on december 20th. President trump went on to offer his thoughts on the conflict in afghanistan and added that he himself would have been a good general. Here to talk about all of it, general barry mccaffrey, a former battlefield commander in the gulf war, retired u. S. Army fourstar general. General, thanks for joining us. This its interesting we spoke in the last block about mitt romney, incoming u. S. Senator. In this oped he wrote critical of some aspects of Donald Trumps performance as president. And mitt romney said one of the reasons he chose to write that oped was the exit of james mattis from this administration and the Resignation Letter that james mattis penned. To see the president going after his now former defense secretary in public, it is to put it mildly an unusual situation. In any administration. What do you make of it . Well, it was one of the more cringeworthy moments ive ever encountered. I hope everybody around that table was just ashamed of being present. My wife actually cried over this incident, to hear a president of the United States talking in such a manner about jim mattis, fourstar marine. By the way, mcchrystal. General mcchrystal, admiral mcraven, these guys arent pentagon staff generals. Theyre people who grew up in combat under machine gun fire and rpgs getting fired at them. They get to be fourstar officers because they were incredibly effective battletested leaders keeping america safe. So look, you back off the thing and one of the dangers the commander in chief of the armed forces is the president of the United States. One of the things we dont want is him becoming a semicomical figure, abusive, irrational, erratic, ignored by his allies, conned by his adversaries, kim jong un. Were in a very tricky situation with this man. He spoke obviously coming into the presidency of the high regard he had for what he would call the generals, my generals. Certainly putting the idea out there he would be reliant on them in many ways. To see the evolution of his relationship, the disintegration of his relationship with a lot of the generals in his administration, i think most pointedly with mat nis what were talking about here. How would you characterize this president s relationship right now with this countrys military leadership . Well, i wouldnt want to speak for the countrys military leadership. I think theyre going to remain apolitical. I think theyre going to follow the legal orders of their commander in chief. President trump can pick up the phone, call one of the nine combatant commanders, our globally deployed more than 2 million men and women of the armed forces, active guard and reserve, and theyll do what he tells them to do unless its illegal on the face. So i think the problem right now is look, weve got an acting white house chief of staff with no background in Foreign Policy. Inform bolton whos a very smart experienced guy looks like hes out of the loop. General dunford, our chairman of the jcs, was unaware until he read the tweet, on the withdrawal order from syria. Weve got a president of the United States dealing with north korea. These people have continued to develop fissile Nuclear Material and missiles. And the president says he loves kim jong un, this brutal despotic character. So again, its hard to understand whats going on. I just hope what we shouldnt worried about, by the way, is the armed forces. Theyre going to do just fine. The skrf vets are first rate. The Service Chiefs are absolutely excellent. Grew up in warfare. So the military will be okay. The countrys National Security process is flat broken. Nobodys coordinating either with our allies or pulling together defense, state, cia, treasury, and the other elements of national power. Were in a very bad situation. General barry mccaffrey, thank you for taking the time tonight. Good to be with you. Coming up, this russian operative recently pleaded guilty to conspiring against the u. S. But is she the reason an american man is behind russian bars tonight accused of espionage . Well ask a former u. S. Ambassador to russia and a former cia official when the 11th hour continues. Fficial when the 11th hour continues theres no way ou continues theres no way . he definitely wouldnt do anything to break the laws. And i cant imagine that he would have broken spy laws. In any country, let alone in russia. That was the twin brother of an american being detained in russia on espionage charges. U. S. Ambassador John Huntsman was allowed to visit paul whelan today and offered the embassys support. Whelan is accused of spying but the kremlin hasnt offered any details on what led to his arrest. Wheel sn a former marine whose family says he was in moscow for a friends wedding. But the timing of the arrest is raising flags for u. S. Intelligence officials. It comes weeks after russian gun rights activist maria butina pleaded guilty to conspiracy charges here in the u. S. With us to talk about it, michael mcfaul, former u. S. Ambassador to russia. And ned price, a former Senior Analyst at the cia and former senior director to the National Security council. Ambassador mcfaul, let me just start with you. That what would look to many people like a potential, if you want to say quid pro quo, maria butina a few weeks ago here, now this in russia. Does it look that way to you . Well, so far it does because the russian authorities havent released any information about why they arrested mr. Whelan. Weve seen this before. Remember when putin met with donald trump in helsinki, right before then mr. Mueller had indicted 13 russian intelligence officers. And so putin came to helsinki with this crazy scheme that a dozen americans had also committed crimes against the russian government. I know because i was on that list. And thats what it feels like until the russian government gives us an alternative way to understand this event. Well, ned price, youre more familiar with this world than i am. Just looking at the profile of what we know about this individual who the russians are claiming is a spy, does it from a profiling standpoint, does it fit what you might expect to see in a spy . The profile here, steve, fits the theory you were articulating before, a quid pro quo for maria butina. And i say that because the russians by arresting this individual, a businessman who was based in michigan, are implicitly claiming that he was an intelligence official for the u. S. Government working under whats known as nonofficial cover. Theyre claiming he was a noc. That is highly implazible if not impossible to my mind for two primary reasons. One, this individual is a veteran. He served in the marines for 15 years. And thats important because what gives nocs their currency, what gives them their utility is their ability to disavow any and all connections to the u. S. Government. The fact this man served in the armed forces would itself be disqualifying in almost all cases for individuals to be nocs for the u. S. Government. And number two, this individual was discharged from the u. S. Military with a bad conduct discharge. Thats not to impugn his character, but that is to say that this would not be befitting of the profile that the Central Agency agency or any other Intelligence Community entity would look for in someone to whom they would grant one of the highest status, provided most sensitive information, send on the most delicate missions there are. What is interesting about his profile, however, is that he has said very positive things about President Trump on social media and as i said before hes a veteran. I think the russians look at those two traits and they see this individual who they probably know perfectly well is nothing more than a private businessman but they see him as someone for whom President Donald Trump would deal, someone for whom hed be willing to make a swap. Just in terms of ambassador mcfaul, just in terms of the administration and how it can and should be handling this, we know that jon huntsman, the u. S. Ambassador to russia, was able to visit with him today. What else should the administration what else can the administration be doing right now . Well, that was a big step. I was a former ambassador. I dealt with incidences like this. I never visited a u. S. Citizen in a jail. So that was a big symbolic step. I think at the end of the day President Trump claims he has a special relationship with president putin. So he should call up president putin and say what are you doing with our guy and you should release him. Now, i dont expect that to happen. But for years we have been told by the president weve had a theory about Foreign Policy that developing these personal relationships can be good for american outcomes. Well, heres a concrete test of the case. I think thats what the president should at least try to do. So ned price, if the president did try to do that, lets say, and it wasnt successful, what other avenues are there . Well, theres one avenue they shouldnt take, and that is to undertake a swap in this case. To swap a private american businessman for a russian agent would send a terrible signal. It would send a signal that the russians can arrest any american whos there on tourism or legitimate business purposes and secure the release of someone who is doing the bidding of moscow, contrary to our National Security interests. What gives me pause about this, steve, is the fact that Vladimir Putin and donald trump once again have aligned interests in this case. Of course Vladimir Putin wants nothing more than to get back maria butina, to get her back to russia. And strangely donald trump also would be incentivized to do that because his administration wants nothing less than to have her go into a court and for the details of not only her activities, her ability to penetrate the soft underbelly of the Republican Party and the broader conservative Movement Including the nra, but also to but also to detail her cooperation with the u. S. Government. That is not something that the Trump Administration would benefit from having out there and its something that i fear President Trump and president putin could find . Agreement on. All right. Ned price, ambassador michael mcfaul, thank you both for being with us. Coming up, she is the first big name democrat to wade into the 2020 race, but how do the numbers look for Elizabeth Warren as she heads to iowa this weekend . Heading over to the big board when the 11th hour comes right back. Back we are building a Movement Across this country. You saw it. You saw it in 2018. Look at all the people who came off the sidelines. Look at all the people who said, look at all the women who said never thought i was going to be called on to do this but they stood up and said im part of this, this is my country, my voice will be heard and my government will reflect my values. Thats what i believe. And i think the best place to fight that is right there from the presidency of the United States of america. That was just a couple of hours ago right here at 30 rock, massachusetts senator Elizabeth Warren on the Rachel Maddow show tonight. Of course Elizabeth Warren now running for president. One of the big names on the democratic side. Been a lot of speculation she is in. And we thought we would take a preliminary look. What do we know about Elizabeth Warrens standing with the voters shes now going to try to convince to nominate her for president . So the most recent national pohl poll we have of likely democratic primary voters it comes from a little less than a month ago. Huge potential democratic field here. Some of the names they threw at democratic voters across the country, biden the former Vice President and first, sanders the 2016 runnerup in second. You see warren back there at 3 . There have been a lot of other polls since the 2016 election where warrens done a lot better with democrats, was running at just 3 in this poll. Take a look at this too. When you look at biden, sanders, warren, these are the three most wellknown democrats who are out there right now, and you poll how they stand among all voters, democrat, republican and independents, sort of general election voters, take a look at this, sort of their favorableunfavorable. Biden 5429. Sanders 5135. Warren 3032. These are the only three where more than half theres higher than 50 name recognition there. You see those numbers. Do those trouble democrats when it comes to Elizabeth Warren at all . We also had this poll. This is from Suffolk University and usa today. Measuring sort of how receptive are potential democratic primary voters . Democrats, independents who might vote in the democratic primary. How receptive to these potential candidacies are they . This was a couple weeks ago. Warren clocking in. 33 saying she shouldnt run. 27 saying they were excited. Those were not necessarily great numbers. What is this telling us . Its telling us her numbers at the end of 2018 among democrats were down from where theyd been on questions like this. Why is that . It may be because that controversy toward the end of the year over the dna test about her trying to prove native american ancestry, did that knock her numbers down at the end of the year . Then it raises a basic question, is she getting in this race at sort of a low moment in her standing, that she can quickly reverse, that she can quickly connect, improve those numbers, or did it linger did it reveal something about her political instincts, that controversy . That could be more probably theic for her as the campaign unfolds. Thats the question to be answered. But the most recent numbers, that is where Elizabeth Warren starts in this race thats still got obviously a long way to go. Coming up, Elizabeth Warren may be the first potential challenger to donald trump but many others are lightning up behind her. Weve got the latest reporting on who could be the next to announce when the 11th hour continues. Hen the 11th hour continues. It may only be the second day of 2019 but 2020 is already top of mind for many democrats. Dozens of names are being tossed around as potential challengers to President Trump. This wide political pool led one of our next guests to ask who isnt running for the democratic president ial nomination . With us tonight eugene robinson, pulitzer prizewinning columnist for the Washington Post and ken thomas, political reporter for the wall street journal. Covering the 2020 democrats. Ken, let me start with you. Just talking about Elizabeth Warren, who certainly made the first big move in this thing. The fact that she did, it the the way shes rolled this out right now, is that likely to speed up the decision of other potential candidates . Are we going to suddenly see a lot of activity now because she made this move . I dont know that it will. I think there are a lot of democrats who are planning to get in sometime this month or within the first six weeks of the year. I think you should look to the senate for a lot of movement initially. People like cory booker, kirsten gillibrand. Kamala harris is expected to have a book out next week. We expect her to have some kind of decision, announcement after a very short book tour. Warren i think by getting in she is seizing upon this progressive message that has animated so many democrats, and it also may be a way for her to send a message to Bernie Sanders, who is a big question mark in this race, whether he decides to get in. Its possible that she could be stealing some of that important terrain. Yeah, eugene robinson. Thats an interesting question. You wrote that column we referenced there asking who isnt running. I think it was you had more than a dozen there on the republican side in 2016. The democrats could potentially break that mark here in 2020. But what about the Bernie Sanders dynamic . The runnerup from 2016 certainly has a solid core base there that even if its not enough to win a nomination its certainly enough to be a factor in the race. Does Elizabeth Warren getting in right now, do you think that is going to affect his calculus . Well, it might. We dont really know what bernie is thinking about another run. Look, he did better than really well last time around. You know, he came really close to knocking off the great favorite in that race. Political rock star Bernie Sanders. Who knew before that race . Before thats what he before th he has that option. I think what warren has done is very smart, in that the message is the message in this case, i think. She has is staking out ideological turf, with her message, now. I think thats important. I think she has the ability to get people to actually listen to her message in a way that would be more difficult, say, in a week with three announcements, which were inevitably going to have at some point, given all the people that will get into this race. There will be weeks where not everybody is going to get their own week to or longer, to have to roll out their message. Ken thomas, i guess someone who might get their own week if they did it, would be joe biden, the former Vice President. I know hes 2004, 2016, he flirted with the idea of running. He walked close to the starting line but didnt actually run. Are you getting signals from how likely he is going to do it this time . Or might he back off at the end . It seems like its a jump ball. The poll that you just showed shows a great indication of why he would want to get in. He remains very popular within the party. Hes a very wellknown commodity. Hes got a strong team around him that would be able to, you know, quickly mobilize. Do the results from 2018, you know, the new faces, that we saw in the party, does that indicate that, perhaps, the Vice President s time has ended, that he would seem like more of a relic in the party, if he were to run. Its not going to be something that would be handed to him, either. He would be establishment probably the establishment favorite. But this might be a party based on my reporting, that wants a fresh face and is very interested in a full and robust primary. Yeah. I guess thats the big question that hangs over all of us. Theres almost a psychology that defines every one of the nomination races. 2004, democrats, they ended up it was electability. It was the idea of electability. John kerry was sold as the electable candidate. He didnt win. But they dumped howard dean and went with kerry. Electability would have to be the biden pitch. I can win pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin, game over. Whats the market for that right now . Im not sure what the market is. Theres a market for new faces, new blood in the democratic party. Theres a sense that the party needs somebody who has an understanding of how politics the getting realigned in this country. Donald trump got elected president. That cant happen. But it did happen. And as yet, theres not a fully understood realignment going on. One aspect of it, is that independents are the Largest Group of voters now. Party affiliation is weaker than it used to be. And issues are up for grabs. The issues like the social safety net are up for grabs. Issues like tariffs versus free trade, are up for grabs. And i think theres a sense in the party that somebody that the candidate needs to have a grasp on the political realities of 2020. All right. Eugene robinson, ken thomas. Thank you both for joining us. Coming up, after spending the holidays home alone holed up in the white house, the president had a lot to talk about today. Were back after this. During his first Cabinet Meeting of the new year, President Trump took time to reflect on all the alone time hes recently had at the white house. And he had a lot to say. When they say the walls immoral, you better do something about the vatican because the vatican has the biggest wall of them all. Theres a reason why politicians and wealthy people build walls around their houses and their compounds. I know more about drones than anybody. I know about every form of safety that you cant have. Unless youre a worldclass pole vaulter on the olympic team. Im the only person in the history of our country that could really decimate isis. Everybody gives me credit for decimating isis. I like winning. Were hitting the hell out of them, the isis people. Were talking to the taliban and a lot of different people. I had a meeting at the pentagon with a lot of different generals from a movie. Better looking than tom cruise and stronger. I saw more computer boards than i think they make today. Still with us. Eugene robinson, what did you make of the president offthecuff, if you want to say today . Offthecuff, offthewall, offtheranch, whatever. He just made stuff up. If he wont read a history book, get him books on tape. He gave a pernicious version of the history of afghanistan, saying the soviet Union Invaded afghanistan to stop terrorists across the border. The soviets invaded afghanistan to shore up a puppet government there that was about to be toppled. Thats history. Fact and history dont matter to him. It was bizarre, unsettling and disturbing performance. That is our forecast for tonight. Brian will be back tomorrow. Thank you for being with us. Good night from nbc news headquarters in new york. It was a situation room showdown over President Trumps border wall. Congressional leaders left the white house yesterday without making any tangible progress toward ending the government shutdown. Plus, President Trump slams his former defense secretary, claiming he essentially fired jim mattis, who resigned last month citing his differences with the president. Mitt romney weighs in criticizing trump while the president and his allies hit back. Good