Headquarters here in new york. We have a lot to catch up on tonight. This was day 657 of the trump administration. And just hours after democrats gained control of the house, the president forced out his attorney general, Jeff Sessions. If the president was looking for a distraction after the election, he got one. And this could have serious ramifications. Earlier tonight, the nowformer attorney general, Jeff Sessions, left the department of justice to a round of applause. He was famously the first sitting u. S. Senator to support donald trump. He was then relentlessly attacked by the president for taking himself out of the russia case. Im disappointed in the attorney general for many reasons. And you understand that. I am disappointed in the attorney general. He should have certainly let us know if he was going to recuse himself. And we would have used a put a different attorney general in. But sessions replacement who will oversee Robert Muellers russia investigation instead of the deputy ag Rod Rosenstein is viewed as a trump loyalist. Matt whitaker, sessions chief of staff just saw him saying goodbye to sessions at the car tonight, will serve as the acting attorney general. Whitaker is a former u. S. Attorney. He ran as a republican for senate in iowa in 2014, but lost out to joni ernst in a primary. Whitaker has been publicly critical of the Mueller Investigation, writing in an oped, august 2017, quote, it is time for rosenstein, who was the acting attorney general for the purposes of this investigation to order mueller to limit the scope of his investigation, to the four corners of the order appointing him special counsel. If he doesnt, muellers investigation will eventually start to look like a political fishing expedition. This would not only be out of character for a respected figure like mueller but also could be damaging to the president of the United States and his family and by extension to the country. Whitaker also appeared on cnn in august of 2017 and said mueller would be crossing a red line by looking into the Trump Organization finances. If bob mueller and his small u. S. Attorneys office, as ive heard it described today, does go beyond the 2016 election and get into Trump Organization finances, unrelated to the 2016 election, and really unrelated to russian coordination, if it even exists, i think that would be crossing a red line. Peter baker of the New York Times reports today, quote, mr. Whitakers an skens skend ascendance to the top of the Justice Department shows how much loyalty means to mr. Trump. The president has longregarded mr. Whitaker as his eyes and ears inside a department that he considers an enemy institution. Baker also points out that under normal circumstances, Rod Rosenstein, as the number two guy at justice, after all, would be in line to become the acting attorney general. Earlier today, whitaker released a statement that read, in part, quote, it is true it is a true honor, rather, that the president has confidence in my ability to lead the department of justice as acting attorney general. I am committed to leading a Fair Department with the highest ethical standards that upholds the rule of law and seeks justice for all americans. No mention there of Robert Muellers investigation. Earlier today, frank figliuzzi, the former fbi assistant director for counterintelligence offered on this network a blunt assessment of the sessions firing. I think were watching obstruction of justice play out right in plain sight. I fear theres a quid pro quo, you do this, i name you acting attorney general, or i nominate you for attorney general. You take care of the special counsel investigation. And thats public corruption. That gets your attention. So does this. Phillip rutger, robert costa, and josh dawsey wrap up the last 24 hours this way, quote, washington plunged into political war on wednesday in the wake of a split decision by voters in the midterm elections, with President Trump ousting his attorney general and threatening to retaliate against democrats if they launch investigations into his personal conduct and possible corruption in the administration. The rapid shift to battle stations signaled the start of what is likely to be two years of unremitting political combat as trump positions himself for reelection. As we said, it gets your attention. And lets bring in our leadoff panel on this postelection wednesday night, jeremy bash, former chief of staff at cia and the pentagon. Former u. S. Attorney, joyce vance, who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. And the aforementioned robert costa, National Political reporter for the Washington Post and moderator of Washington Week on pbs and what a week its been already. Robert, i would like to begin with you. What is the book on whitaker . Whats the book on how the president sees him . And i know you talked to rudy in the last 24 hours. What did you learn . Brian, ive known mr. Whitaker for about a decade, going back to his time in iowa politics. Moderated his first debate when he ran for u. S. Senate. Lost the republican primary then in 2014 to now senator joni ernst. Hes a conservative, hes an ideologue, hes someone whos migrated towards the trump wing of the republican party. Hes Close Friends with sam clovis, someone we know because hes been interviewed by Robert Muellers grand jury. Hes migrated toward the trump administration, become sessions chief of staff at the department of justice and is known for taking a tough line on the Mueller Probe. Now hes running the department of justice. Joyce, i have so many questions for you. As a former u. S. Attorney, would this have been an organic choice, if you searched through the government payroll, to name this guy in normal times, as acting attorney general, first of all . If we were only talking about just generic roles. The attorney generals chief of staff wouldnt be a completely unprecedented choice to take over, if you anticipated as president , naming another permanent selection in the nottoodistant future. But what takes this out of the realm of the normal, brian, are Matt Whitakers clear stands, clear enunciation of his view that the Mueller Investigation should be limited. That makes this extremely abnormal and something we should all be concerned about. Now, thats my second question. Is that grounds for recusal . If you have issued an opinion, made it public, and you are suddenly then appointed to something overseeing that, is that normally grounds for recusal . So, recusal can be complicated, but it looks like whitaker has real problems. And one would expect that the professionals at the Justice Department would advise him that he must recuse, if not because of an actual conflict of interest, then because of the clear appearance of impropriety in his taking over this investigation. And a big part of that would be the fact that he had made pronouncements about how that investigation should be handled, before he was privy to all of the facts. In essence, prejudging it. Theres no reason that we can believe at this point that he can give the investigation a fair shake. And what the American People here deserve is not an outcome predetermined by an ideologue, its justice. Its the search for the truth so at the end of the Mueller Investigation, we have a high Comfort Level that weve reached a correct outcome. We cant get that with this attorney general at the helm. Jeremy bash, ive got to read you this from politico. Democrats are even prepping a breakglass scenario in case theres a nixonera saturday night massacre in which trump fires his current doj leadership and tries to shutter the Mueller Probe in the process. If that happens, senior democratic Officials Say mueller would likely get an immediate summons to capitol hill for nationally televised testimony about his firings. Jeremy, how would washington react if that is end game here . Well, if whitaker moves against the Mueller Probe, i think it is quite literally obstruction of justice. And in that case, i think what immediately shoots to the top of the agenda of the new House Majority is calling whitaker to testify under oath to explain whether he has had any conversations with the president of the United States about shuttering the Mueller Probe. And if he says he has, that opens an avenue of investigation from mueller to determine whether or not there has been an obstruction of justice. And once whitaker is a witness, i think he would have to recuse himself from any further oversight of the Mueller Investigation. Robert costa, what do you hear . Whats going on behind the scenes in this investigation . And are we ignoring a critical word . And is that acting . Are there lists of permanent candidates being drawn up in the west wing . There are lists being drawn right now, brian. The president is looking through some names, thinking about possibly some u. S. Senators who could be on that list. Thinking about retired and current federal judges, people who could get confirmed. For the moment, Matt Whitaker is there. A former federal prosecutor in iowa, who he sees as an ally, but he has to pick someone who could be the attorney general. Maybe it could be whitaker, but its probably going to be someone with a bigger name, a bigger profile, who can get senate confirmation. Hes thinking also talking to mayor giuliani today. He said that they need to make a decision after the president gets back from paris after his weekend trip about the interview with robert mueller. Are they going to do it or not . And if they dont, will they just provide written answers by midnovember. Joyce, i have to say, this got our attention today. Preet bharara, former u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york who was fired by the president just put this out on twitter today. Three words, its danger time. Do you concur with that . I think preets absolutely right. Were at i heard neal katyal call it earlier today the beginning of a constitutional crisis. And it certainly seems like this sets it in motion. It is a very dangerous time. We need to protect the Mueller Investigation. This new acting attorney general really needs to strenuously be encouraged by everyone who has the ability to encourage him to recuse from this investigation. Otherwise, were in dangerous territory. Joyce, i must say, i also heard john dean today, and im going to ask you to explain this in lay terms. He theorized that mueller has done some trump proofing of his own investigation, including but not limited to potentially delivering sealed indictments to a senior federal judge and saying, in effect, hang on to these in case anything happens to me or us. Can you speak to that . So that sounds a little bit nefarious. The process is really a little bit more pedestrian. Its not unusual for federal prosecutors to seal indictments. Theres a lot of reasons. Sealing is just a mechanism for keeping an indictment secret until youve actually been able to arrest the defendant. So a lot of the time, well do that for safety considerations. Here mueller could have had the grand jury issue indictments, sealed them. They would then be in possession of the clerk of the court, but not made public, not unsealed until such time as defendants were arrested or muellers prosecutors directed the clerk that it was time to unseal them. That seems like a very likely possibility to protect the investigation. But also, there are 93 u. S. Attorneys offices out there. They may have pieces of this case. And once those cases are out in the wild, its very hard for main justice to put a complete stop to them. Yeah. Wellput. Jeremy, im old enough to remember about a year ago. Im going to play you this clip from Lindsey Graham and were going to talk about what happened to Lindsey Graham since then. If Jeff Sessions is fired, there will be holy hell to pay. Any effort to go after mueller could be the beginning of the end of the trump presidency, unless mueller did something wrong. Jeremy, what happened to Lindsey Graham, do you think, in the intervening months . I think hes auditioning for jobs. I think hes potentially auditioning for the job of attorney general and maybe even for the job of secretary of defense if theres a vacancy over at the pentagon. And hes clearly decided that hes going to cast his lot in with trumpism and President Trump and hes abandoned the principles that he took that you noted in that interview, in which he said that if the president fired the attorney general, which is exactly what happened today, that would be the beginning of the end of the trump presidency. And jeremy, this is a question im going to ask other of our guests tonight. Can you think of republicans who would be willing to cross the aisle and work with democrats if they feared an effort to come after mueller, to come up with something that, again, trumpproofs the Mueller Investigation . I think it depends how its crafted. I think something that explains that the Mueller Investigation is a National Security investigation, requires a full and complete assessment of the facts, then perhaps there are some republicans of conscience who would do that, who would join with the majority in the house and pass a bill, pass legislation along that lines. But honestly, brian, im not too optimistic that any such bill would pass and i dont think the president would sign it. Robert costa yeah, go ahead. The person to watch, brian, senatorelect mitt romney of utah. He was one of the rare republicans who issued a Statement Today in light of the attorney generals firing and he said, you have to protect the Mueller Investigation. Does it become more than a statement in the coming weeks from senatorelect romney . Does it become an actual speech, an actual statement, talking on television, talking to his colleagues in the Upper Chamber . Does he become someone who could be a counterweight or the same way as senator graham, a republican whos on the trump train and going along with the president. Romney was almost alone among prominent republicans in saying that on social media today. Its why we had these three guests start us off tonight. Our great thanks to jeremy bash, to joyce vance, and to robert costa. We really appreciate it. And coming up, before President Trump fired sessions, he held the longest solo press conference of his presidency. It was over the top and off the rails and has tonight resulted in the punishment of a Cable Network correspondent. And later, about last night, the wins, the losses, the surprises. And two folks who had the good sense to get out of congress while the getting was good. Well deliver their verdict with us here this evening, as the 11th hour is just Getting Started on a wednesday night. Today is the day youre going to get motivated. Get stronger. Get closer. 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At comcast, its my job to develop, apps and tools that simplify your experience. My name is mike, im in Product Development at comcast. Were working to make things simple, easy and awesome. Do you expect that when the democrats take over the chairmanship of all of these important committees that youre going to get hit with a blizzard of subpoenas on everything from the russia investigation to your cell phone use to your tax returns. Ready . Then youre going to, if that happens, then were going to do the same thing and government comes to a halt and i would blame them. If they do that, then its just all it is is a warlike posture. Not even a thinly veiled warning to the democrats there, roughly 12 hours after their party regained control of the house, it came during the president s longest solo News Conference to date. 87 minutes. He also tried to paint last nights Election Results as a big win. Ill be honest. I thought it was a very close to complete victory. I really believe that we have a chance to get along very well with the democrats. Despite that right there, sounding eager to work with the opposition and offering support to nancy pelosi as the next house speaker, he had placed a call to her last night, there was another obvious message. Hell go after any democrats who come after him. They want to do things. You know, i keep hearing about investigations. They can play that game, but we can play it better. Because we have a thing called the United States senate. They can look at us and we can look at them. And it will go back and forth and it will probably be very good for me politically. That was part of our day at the white house. Here to talk about it tonight is peter baker chief White House Correspondent for the New York Times and jill colvin, White House Reporter for the associated press. Jill, are they putting up ramparts in the west wing . Is sunny going to the mattresses . Is this for real and is this just going to be what its like . I think that this is very much a preview of what we are going to see going forward. I mean, this performance from the president , its hard to know where to begin, because there was just so much here. Oh, weve got more of it, too. From the president , going out there, claiming that he had nearcomplete victory, suggesting at one point that he would have to think about whether it was better for him to have lost the house than to have won by a couple of seats, to standing up there and actually going after, mocking by name a number of House Republican members who lost their races, because, he said, they hadnt been aligned closely enough with him. There was just so much to unpack in there. But this, what youre talking about here, going after democrats, really putting up this threat, saying, if youre going after me, were going to war. Im not going to be working with you and im going to blame you for not working with me, is very much a preview of what were going to see in the months going forward. Peter baker, let me take you back hours, writing about Jeff Sessions and specifically the topic of loyalty which piqued my interest. Because on issues so important to this president , like immigration, sessions was way out there in, front. He was beyond a loyal puppy dog of a member of this cabinet. So it leads you to believe that because this was predicated just on russia, whats the worry there . Well, the worry, of course, is that an attorney general that should have at least some autonomy to oversee investigations that involve people close to the president will, in fact, actually be an agent of the president. Thats what President Trump has made very clear he wants in that job. Hes been he hasnt bothered to disguise that. He said upfront, again and again and again, that the reason that he wanted Jeff Sessions to be there was to oversee the russia investigation and protect the president from what he calls a witch hunt and a hoax. And the fact that Jeff Sessions recused himself was the cardinal sin that could never be forgiven. So we have to assume that whitaker, now the acting attorney general, understands that and understands what his mission is, as the president sees it, and how he will respond to that is something that we will be covering in these days and weeks to come. Jill colvin mentioned that things got a little wild at the white house today. Weve put together some, but not all of it in a montage. Well talk about it on the other side. Are you worried thats enough thats enough. Mr. President thats enough. Pardon me, maam, im ill tell you what, cnn should be ashamed of itself, having you working for them. You are a rude, terrible person. In jims defense, ive traveled with him and watched him, hes a diligent reporter well, im not a big fan of yours, either. When you report fake news no when you report fake news, which cnn does a lot, you are the enemy of the people. You called yourself a nationalist. Some people saw that as ep boldining white nationalists. I dont know why youd say that. Thats such a racist statement. Again, just some of the atest hits of what we witnessed. That first clip, jim acosta from cnn, a young white house intern trying to grab the mike from him tonight has resulted in the press pass of jim acosta pulled at the white house. He can no longer get on the white house grounds and in their statement, as a justification, they said that jim acosta placed his hands on a young woman, just trying to do her job, as a white house intern. And they stand by their decision. Jill colvin, i did see joe lockhart, former clinton era press secretary say tonight, he was complimenting cnn on their restraint, because they have not redone their coverage, theyre not leading all hours with their own correspondent, jim acosta, theyre staying on the story, which is the firing of sessions and the result of the midterms, just in case, just in case this is a giant distraction. Yeah, when that story broke, i think Anderson Cooper was just about to start, and i know a lot of us tuned in to see what cnns response would be and they waited until well into the show to have jim acosta come and talk about what had happened. We know this is an administration that has long had a very tense relationship with the press, even during the campaign, the president , then candidate, was revoking Reporters Press credentials, banning numerous outlets from the Washington Post, to politico, from covering his events. But i think what youre seeing here is also an acknowledgement that the president often uses these fights that he picks with the media to distract from certain story lines that he doesnt want being covered and what is the news tonight . It is his decision to ask for Jeff Sessions resignation and the white house knows that if they push these buttons and they go after the press, the press is going to react and respond, as youve seen tonight, and that that will change the direction of the coverage. Peter baker, ive been a hard pass holder twice in my life. The first, dare i say, as a white house intern in the late 70s. Second time, mid90s as White House Correspondent. Youve been a hard pass holder for many years. It is difficult to remember seeing one pulled, losing privileges to come on to the white house grounds for Something Like this. Yeah, no, exactly right. I got my first hard pass 22 years ago and i dont remember anytime, anytime that a reporter has had his pass or her pass pulled because of the way they do their job. This is a new, new step. Its one thats obviously very troubling. And look, you know, i think jills exactly right. This is what they want. If they think that jim acosta is so unfair to them, why did the president call on him . He called on him because they wanted to have the confrontation. They want to have this be the scenes that people see and they say, see, hes standing up to the unfair press. Why did he go after yamiche alcindor, who did nothing but ask a very serious, very sober question of him and he didnt even wait for her to finish before he starts calling her a racist. This is what he wants. This is what this white house wants. And i think the problem for the press is, we have to be careful not to play into it. The story shouldnt be about us. It should be about Jeff Sessions and the president of the United States and it should be about the elections from yesterday. And instead, were talking about this kind of an action. But it is the first action that theyve taken that i remember that directly punishes a reporter since, you know, since taking office. There were one or two other times that they kind of came close to that. They excluded a reporter from one particular pool spray. This is a big deal and it will be something we talk about in the days to come. And lets say a word on behalf of this white house intern in question. She very gamely had to deal with a highly uncomfortable circumstance. She did not come to work at her unpaid job this morning thinking that she was going end to up part of a news story. She tries politely, at first, and then she goes in to grab at that microphone, putting her in an awfully uncomfortable position, as well. Well, tomorrow yes, peter . Yes, its an awkward situation all around. No question. She was trying to do her job. But you can clearly see from that video that jim did not put hands on her, the way they are implying he somehow, you know, rudely assaulted her. He specifically said, pardon me, maam. He was not you know, you can say whatever you want about his behavior, but the truth of the matter is, the white house shouldnt get to decide who chooses sorry, shouldnt get to decide who covers them based on whether they like a reporters behavior or not. Thats not the way it works. Important points to make here tonight. With our thanks to peter baker and jill colvin, two veterans of the beat, we appreciate you, joining us after another long day. And coming up, well ask two veterans of congress to help us understand just what it is weve witnessed over these past 24 hours. And its only been 24 hours, when we come back. Im alex trebek here to tell you about the Colonial Penn program. 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And youll also get this free beneficiary planner, and its yours just for calling. So call now. Guess whos beefing up a steak egg breakfast burrito . This guy. Loaded with prime rib steak, scrambled eggs, crispy hash browns, and melted cheese. Because at jack in the box, whoops, were all about beefing up breakfast. Beefy, baby try my new steak egg breakfast burrito. Steak eggr breakfast burrito. Loaded with prime rib steak, scrambled eggs, crispy hash browns, and melted cheese. Because at jack in the box, were all about beefing up breakfast. Think i pulled something. Try my steak egg breakfast burrito. Part of the breakfast burrito family. Carlos curbelo, mike coffman. Too bad, mike. Mia love, but mia love gave me no love and she lost. And Barbara Comstock was another one. Peter roskam didnt want the embrace. Eric paulson didnt want the embrace. That was extraordinary. President trump today calling out, name checking, trolling, by name, the republicans who didnt want the embrace and lost their house races. Democrats locked up the House Majority in last nights midterms, picking up at least 28 seats, while the Senate Remains in republican control. The democrats also flipped control of seven governorships. Stacey abrams in georgia is still hoping to make it eight. Republican brian kemp declared victory, but the nbc news decision desk still ranks this race as too close to call. And abrams has not conceded, notably. And while jon tester of montana snuck out a victory while most americans slept last night, the Big Senate Race in arizona is also still undecided, as is the Big Senate Race in florida. Seems like we were just talking about these races oh, i dont know, last night. Here with us to discuss it, two of our favorite returning veterans, two members of congress, Donna Edwards and congressman jolley of florida. And congressman jolley, because of your former republican affiliation, i have to start with you. Have you ever seen anything like that, from a president calling out members of his own party by name . No. And name checking members who had just lost, who had served and served honorably. Look, those were the words of a very small man. And politically, he name checked people who lost because of donald trump. Not because they didnt embrace donald trump. Those were the victims of Donald Trumps last two years in office. And particularly in the last six weeks of the birthright citizenship issue, the caravan issue, and you know, one of the important things i find fascinating today, donald trump has tried to reset the narrative that somehow this was a great night for republicans. It was not. Democrats won the house. This was an historic night for democrats. And i think if democrats are feeling any lament, that pit in the stomach, is that they were hoping that maybe this morning we were a different nation than we thought we were yesterday. The reality is, 50 of the country voted to stay on the same path. 50 of the country said, we want to be a different nation. It is a tough moment. But democrats won the United States house of representatives and that is the most historic thing that happened last night. So Donna Edwards, if youre a moderate republican, and i swear we can find some some day, if youre a moderate republican running for reelection in the house and youre trying to tell your constituents, i believe in covering preexisting conditions, maybe youre prochoice and youre trying to make that case that youre independent, moderate. The president comes along, as david is saying, and makes it about an invading army from the south and fear and loathing and suddenly you get caught up into that downballot. Well, and this is at the president s hands. I mean, very clearly, these particular members suffered because the president of the United States embarked on that journey. And you know, when i look at, you know, some of those members, they were going to be tough races anyway. There were really good democrats who were running against them, but the president made it even more difficult for them. So anybody who thinks that donald trump is going to stand with them, not happening. Donald trump only stands with himself. And today, and i have to associate myself with david jolly, he was very small today. And if youre congressman curbelo in florida, when your time in Congress Comes to an end, you have to kind of unspool your Congressional Office and your district offices and employees need some love and in addition to mispronouncing his name, this is what he gets. Well, its true. And i have to say, in this intervening period and given what happened with attorney general, former attorney general sessions today, theres no reason whatsoever that these particular republicans shouldnt align themselves with democrats in the house, right now in this intervening time to protect the Mueller Investigation. David jolly, heres the question. For the democrats, should last nights results be about preexisting conditions more than can we get his tax returns, who shout we subpoena . Whos going to crack down on these committees . It should be both. You know, the exit polling questions did not combine everything we needed to know. They said, whats the number one issue . Health care, taxes, or immigration . But we also separately said, are you trying to send a message to the president . The overwhelming message was, theyre trying to send a message to the president of the United States. I think for two years, weve talked about holding this president accountable. And democrats in congress truly have to do that. If they dont, they might lose the most energized part of their base. And frankly, its a calling of history. We are living in a moment where 24 hours after this election, the attorney general of the United States has been fired. The only people inside the beltway that will hold this president accountable are democrats and if they fail to do so, then they will not be able to say, we stood up to this president. They must do so. How to tell these are former members of congress . The civility in our conversation tonight. Weve asked them to stick around. Were just going to get in a break. And coming up, sessions is out. All eyes on mueller. Congressional leaders say they have a plan b. Well talk about that when we come back. It is a break the glass moment, an attack on our democracy and it should precipitate exactly the type of firestorm that we saw in the wake of the saturday night massacre under richard nixon. Democratic senator Richard Blumenthal of connecticut says that the firing of sessions has him working on a plan b to protect and preserve the work of robert mueller. And congressman jerry nadler, new york democrat who will be running the House Judiciary Committee come january released a statement demanding key officials preserve all relevant documents related to sessions dismissal. He added, quote, the firing of Jeff Sessions will be investigated and people will be held accountable. This must begin immediately and if not, then a Democratic Congress will make this a priority in january. Our former members of congress, Donna Edwards and david jolly are still with us. Congressman jolley, can you name a republican or republicans in the u. S. Senate who will cross the aisle and work on the mueller preservation act of 2018 . No, because they would have done so already. And i credit mitt romney and other republican senators who at least suggested today that the probe should continue. But honestly, i believe that mitt romney is going to be the next jeff flake of the United States senate, because theres a difference between saying we need justice to prevail and actually doing something legislatively about it. Its why the importance of democrats taking the house matters. In the house rules package on january 3rd, House Democrats can form a special select committee to convene its own investigation and if mueller has already been fired, they can subpoena mueller to be a witness. Eventually, House Democrats will get a mueller report. I think weve seen from republicans inside the beltway, particularly in the United States senate, theyre not going to do a single thing about this. Donna edwards, same question. You know, i have thought for a long time that if democrats regain control of the house, that clearly they have subpoena power, they should do their investigations and oversight, but they have to walk and chew gum at the same time. Mmhmm. Do policy on one hand we talked about that last night. But also to make sure that theres accountability. But thats in january. So this time between now and january, really, the ball is in the court of the senate. And today mark warner issued a statement, an affirmative statement for bob mueller, but we didnt hear a statement from richard burke. I heard you say that on the air. That was vital. Yeah, its really important. Because in previous other instances, they have joined together in issuing those statements. And so its going to be an important moment, both on the street for activists and advocates to be out there pressing the issue, and i know that there are a lot of those actions going to go on, but also right now, this time between now and january 3rd is really critical, and i would not put it past the president , given what hes done today, to go full boar. So we have to be ready for that. At the same time, we have to make sure were not just focused on every investigation. And what i heard nancy pelosi say today, again after she said it last night, she articulated a policy agenda, but she also emphasized that the house of representatives was going to reclaim its Constitutional Authority and its constitutional role. And i think americans are going to look forward to that. All right. Well go on that message, to go off into the good night with our thanks to Donna Edwards and david jolly, former democrat, former republican member of congress. Coming up for us, asked about the deep divisions in the country, the president says hes the moral leader who can heal the country, when we come back. If you see wires down, treat them all as if they are hot and energized. Stay away from any downed wire, call 911 and call pg e right after so we can both respond out and keep the public safe. One call 811 before you dig. Ings you can do is to make sure you calling 811 can get your lines marked. Its free, its easy, we come out and mark your lines. We provide you the information so you will dig safely. How do you see your role as a moral leader . Go ahead. Mr. President , how do you see your role as a moral leader. Theres so many people. Im sorry. Go ahead. As a moral leader, though . I think i am a great moral leader and i love our country. President trump again in the white house today, while claiming to be a great moral leader, trump refused a chance to reset politics and apologize for the dismissive rhetoric we have heard over the past month. While hes been out on the campaign trail. Great subject to talk about tonight. And with us to do so, pulitzer prizewinning author and historian, jon meacham. His latest book is the soul of america the battle for our better angels. And rick wilson is back with us, a proud floridian, a proud nevertrumper, a veteran republican strategist who has written a book slightly different in tone from jons, its called everything trump touches dies, where all the better angels are done by the end. Book. Do you think you were being a little subtle with the cover . I tried to make it something that people could draw their own conclusions on. So i get home from work last night, more appropriately, this morning. And of course, you cant come down right away, so you do what every Good American should do, you turn on msnbc. 4 00 in the morning, youre here with notes on a shirt cardboard. And im thinking, does beschloss do this . No, hes got neat little notebooks. God love you for putting in the hours. Beschloss has that pencil box he carries around. Its just terrible. So i know we could be in the middle of a multiday story here, but where does history put what we witnessed today . Well, which hour . Well, thats right. Theres the midterm results. Then, oh, by the way we fired the attorney general. And in between you had what, an 85minute tour de force. Yes. Performance. Or tour de farce. Yeah, exactly. Thats why your covers better. Thats good. Where hes asserted moral leadership. And then, of course, pulls the reporters hard pass tonight. One of the things that because my book is fundamentally. My thinking on this is fundamentally optimistic. We have been in extraordinarily difficult times before, doesnt mean we should relax but doesnt mean we cant learn. I had a list of three things, though, that would push me past where, as we say in the south, where the buses run. One is moving an election, possibly. Trying to fire a judge. And revoking a press credential. And so, check on one of the whoa moments. I think in terms of, you know, there are echoes of watergate, obviously. In both the egotistical performance in the east room today and in the assertions of executive power in the face of a potentially hostile congress. This feels more and more like andrew johnson. And his opposition to the reconstruction legislation of the republican party, in accepting the verdict of the civil war which the party wanted to do. Johnson did not, and we ended up with an impeachment. So, rick wilson, in your view, what happened today . I think we saw a president today who recognized that playtime is over. And the easy the easy backstop he had with the republican congress, that acted a lot more like they were, you know, junior managers at a trump resort somewhere, and not like a coequal branch of government, thats coming to an end. And the fun parts over. And he recognized today with the move against Jeff Sessions, that the Mueller Investigation now will be something that he will have to face headon. He wont have devin nunes running out to the cameras or jim jordan running out to the cameras to pretend theyve discovered a shocking new revelation at the fbi. This is going to get very real, and the legal consequences are going to be very high. So, hes trying to flail around before the music stops and find a way to protect himself for 2020, and to hold onto this office. I think we saw a man under a lot of stress today and with the revelation, he was an angry it was an angry press conference. It was angry. This was not a man who had a tight control over his temper today, and i dont think that this is the last were going to see of this version of donald trump, which is a very rough and edgy version, which is kind of frightening for a president. You always hope that president s will assume that mantle of that office and not just let their ego run wild. And we saw an ego out of control today. Both gentlemen have agreed to stay with us. Well continue this conversation right on the other side of this break. Are you taking the tissue test . Yep, and my teeth are yellow. Time for whitestrips. Crest glamorous White Whitestrips are the only adaaccepted whitening strips proven to be safe and effective. And they whiten 25x better than a leading whitening toothpaste. Crest. Healthy, beautiful smiles for life. Get stronger. Get closer. 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Last thing before we go tonight, when asked if his language is dividing this country, the president rejected that idea today, and instead, he wanted to focus on republican victories last night. Still with us to talk about all of it, john meachum and rick wilson. Rick, did you ever think in your lifetime, in a lifetime in republican politics, that you would view democrats taking power in the house as a necessary check on the power of a republican president . If youd said this to me three years ago, i would have laughed. I would have said, thats absurd. But right now, look, i would have loved to have a republican majority that took their job seriously, as a coequal branch of government, with an oversight responsibility inside the system that has survived for two centuries, balancing the three branches of government in their coequal nature, but right now, without the democrats having taken the house, no matter what the other impacts idealogically come out of it, theyre at least going to provide oversight. Theyre going to provide a fire break between a president who is at least authoritarian curious, and theyre at least going to provide some way for the American People to know that this guy cant run rough shod in washington. And john, can you name, or, is this lofty stuff of the past, one, two, members of the Republican Senate who would consider walking across the aisle . I promised to ask all our guests this question tonight, to do the mueller protection act of 2018 and trumpproof this investigation. Is there anyone you can name . I have not talked to him about it, i would like to think that lamar alexander. A name ive read. Who has spoken about, no attorney general should be confirmed who would not guarantee the independence. I think that would be a possibility. I think bob corker, too, shorttimer, but, i give you the two tennessee guys, but i do think theres theres something in the dna of a border state that lends itself to that. Rick wilson, what, in your view, happened writ large last night . When i saw that kansas had elected right. A native american lesbian Ivy League Law school educated former mma fighter, and those arent four people, thats one person right. I knew we were going to be covering an interesting night. We really did have an interesting night. The most consequential thing came out of pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin, ohio, these states that donald trump won out of that blue wall, where democrat candidates swept in congressional races in suburban areas and where the governors races went to the democrats. That should be a sharp signal that the president s trade wars arent working out for those folks, and that his shtick here without Hillary Clinton as his foil may not wear, as well as they think. I think its a big red flag for 2020, which is driving a lot of the very angry behavior were seeing today. Jon meacham, 45 seconds of brilliance. Do they face peril, the democrats now, concentrating now more on subpoenas and hearings and tax returns than preexisting conditions . Theres a phrase out there, double down and weaponize, which we should avoid using, that people can walk and chew gum at the same time. And i think if it falls within the constitutional duty, its not what senator mcconnell called president ial harassment today, which is a really interesting phrase. I dont think theres any coordination with the white house, because i dont think theyre capable of it, but for him, for mcconnell to have introduced that phrase in the morning and then that afternoon, for the sessions announcement to come, you did that does give you an insight into a mindset thats going to be much more about the imperial presidency than checks and balances. We have to go. I do so reluctantly. Gentlemen, what a treat its been to have you both on the broadcast. Thank you, sir. That is our broadcast for wednesday night. Thank you so very much for being here with us. Good night from our nbc news election headquarters, the last night of it, in fact, here in new york