Our nbc news headquarters here in new york. Day 433 of the Trump Administration. Another great day for all those involved in the newspaper war that this administration has sparked. Not a great day to be the nowformer va secretary, and in a moment well talk about the latest departure from the trump cabinet and how the president plans to fill this particular job. But first, as they say, two reports today with major possible implications on the obstruction angle of the Mueller Investigation. The New York Times first on the board, Washington Post quickly followed, to report President Trumps former lead counsel in the russia case, john dowd, spoke last year with lawyers for former National Security adviser Michael Flynn and onetime Trump Campaign manager Paul Manafort about possible president ial pardons. A fiveperson reporting team for the times writes this. The discussions came as the special counsel was building cases against both men and they raised questions about whether the lawyer, john dowd, who resigned last week, was offering pardons to influence their decisions about whether to plead guilty and cooperate in the investigation. The three authors of the Washington Post piece write it this way. President trumps lawyer told attorneys representing paul j. Manafort last summer that the president might be willing to pardon his former Campaign Chairman if he was charged with a crime stemming from the investigation into Russian Election interference, according to two people familiar with the discussions. Mueller has already indicted Paul Manafort on several charges of financial fraud. He has pleaded not guilty. He has pointedly not flipped or taken a deal. Hes chosen not to cooperate in this investigation. Michael flynn, however, has pleaded guilty to lying to investigators and is now cooperating with the special counsel. President trump was specifically asked about the possibility of a pardon for flynn. This was back in december when he did not rule it out. About Michael Flynn, would you consider a pardon for Michael Flynn . I dont want to talk about pardons for Michael Flynn yet. Well see what happens. Lets see. I can say that. When you look at whats gone on with the fbi and with the justice department, people are very, very angry. Back in july, the Washington Post reported, trump has asked his advisers about his power to pardon aides, family members, and even himself in connection with the probe. Today former trump lawyer john dowd and Current White House attorney ty cobb denied there were any discussions about pardoning flynn and manafort. During todays briefing, sarah hawk ka besanders gave a similar response but note her use of presenttense language during this critical point in this answer. Can you say unequivocally no one here has discussed pardons in this case . I can say that ty cobb is the person that would be most directly involved in this, and hes got a statement on the record saying that theres no discussion and theres no consideration of those at this time in the white house. Did the president direct john dowd to talk to the attorney for Paul Manafort and Michael Flynn about potential pardons . Im not aware of any conversations of that nature at all. There was one reaction from someone close to the white house that bears noting. George conway, husband of trump counselor kellyanne conway, fired this off. It reads this is flabbergasting. For more we turn to our leadoff panel on a wednesday night. Formidable panel they are. Michael schmidt, New York Times washington correspondent. His name among those five byline on this the times report we just mentioned. We welcome to our broadcast carol lennic, political investigations reporter for the Washington Post and Pulitzer Prize winner. Hers was among the Washington Post bylines today. Michael and carol, both msnbc contributors. For good measure also with us is jeremy bash, former chief of staff at cia and pentagon, former chief counsel to house intel, and an msnbc National Security analyst. Welcome to you both. Michael, since you were first on the board, what was the most important part, in your view, of your own reporting, and is anyone alleging that mr. Dowd was freelancing on his own without permission from his client . Well, thats really the question at the heart of this. Was dowd simply out just talking, just trying to feel out the lawyers and try and make a deal here himself . Or was he doing it at the president s behest . Thats the real question. What did the president know and when did he know it . People who know dowd 0 find it hard to believe he would go out and have such discussions without talking to the president about it. If you remember this happened in july, right after dowd took over. The special counsels investigation had been going on for just a few months. Trump was beginning to understand the severity of it. He was considering himself getting rid of mueller. And that is when the discussions happened. Carol, youve been focused on manafort. Take us back to that time and fast forward with us to present day and how notable it remains that he is still in the fight and has not flipped. Its really, really important, brian. And remember at this moment in time, its hard to rewind because it feels like it was five years ago. But it was just about seven months. At this moment, it was very well known throughout there are tons of news reports saying that Paul Manafort was under intense scrutiny, under intense pressure to cooperate with bob muellers and his special counsel team. And the president was conferring privately with his own lawyers about whether or not he could pardon himself, his allies, his friends, as we reported it back in july. This was an intense period. And there is a lot of speculation now, looking back, on why is it that a man who faces, if convicted of the charges he faces, decades in prison, why does he consistently resist cooperating or even entering into plea negotiations . His attorneys have been very quiet, except to say that they are convinced that the charges are an overreach. They dont appear to be an overreach, in fact, they feel, especially on the financial fraud cases, to be an openandshut matter. So it remains incredibly mysterious as to why there are no talks to negotiate with bob mueller. Also, i remember where i was specifically driving on the new jersey turnpike just past newark airport, and i dont like to brag, when i heard the news that Sheriff Joe Arpaio was getting pardoned. And remember how many of us thought that was kind of a potential bellwether, maybe a little signal. Absolutely. And there was a lot of recoiling in the Legal Community about just that, brian. Fear that the president had overstepped. Because remember, the difference there was that the sheriff was accused of contempt of a federal order. And was it appropriate for a president to step in with his, you know, very expansive pardon power, but ultimately limited. And to make that kind of gesture for somebody who was snubbing the entire federal government and a court order. Jeremy bash, among your bona fides i did not mention harvardeducated lawyer which is the side of you we desperately need in this conversation. As i understand the law, which isnt saying much, its not illegal to mention in conversation a pardon per se. It being the most awesome power we grant our president s. It is illegal, however, and could be construed as such, to dangle a pardon. And we should also mention, it usually comes as a last resort, not a first. Yeah, the constitution gives extraordinary leeway to a president to pardon almost anybody he wants for almost anything under any circumstances. And so the president discussing a pardon, i think its going to be hard for a prosecutor to say that per se is illegal. Whats so unusual in this case is that, of course the investigation is about the president , is about the president s conduct and the president s inner circle. So weve never in our country had a circumstance in which the pardon was used to obstruct an investigation of the president. This may be a case of First Impression for this special counsel. This might be the kind of thing that if litigated could go all the way to the Supreme Court. And that becomes a unique question is what youre saying to this case, that weve never seen a pardon dangled in this way that could potentially affect the outcome of a case detrimental to the president . Absolutely, thats precisely right. When else in our history has a president sought preemptively to pardon people so that they wouldnt testify against him in a massive National Security investigation of his own conduct . Michael, you make particular note of current and former administration officials, say they recounted conversations, they either took part in or overheard, about pardons. So tell me, michael in your role as analyst of your own work, wheres the mueller interest in a line like that . Well, the question really here is, was there an intent to actually obstruct the investigation . Did the president simply, you know was the president going to dowd . We dont know if thats true but was the motivation here, look, this is an investigation that theres nothing to it, weve done nothing wrong, its a distraction for the country, we need to pardon these guys to move beyond it. Or was there a larger motivation there, was there a corrupt intent to actually get in the way of the investigation . And now that these questions have surfaced, i find it hard to believe that mueller will not try and find that out. And the way that he can do that at the heart of this is obviously with the interview with the president. The biggest question, the next phase, looking the president down on this investigation, will the president sit with mueller, will mueller have a chance to understand from the president why he did the things he did, why did he fire jim comey, why did he ask comey to end the Flynn Investigation . That will allow mueller to assess what were truly the president s intentions . Michael, you and i have had this conversation before. When we learn that muellers on to something, isnt the usual rule of thumb that hes been on it for weeks or months before we have learned about it . Yeah, we dont know if this is a part of the object instruction inquiry that muellers looking at. But if you talk to legal analysts and you kind of watch this investigation and read between the lines, its hard to believe that mueller would not look at this question. You have to remember, mueller wants to overturn every rock here, to make sure that when he closes up shop, he can say that he looked at all these issues and hes not faced with a disclosure afterwards that raises questions about whether he actually did a good job looking at everything. Carol, put it gently. This is not a recruitment poster for future members of the trump legal team, is it . No, its not. And its been i think very vexing, especially for the people still left holding the bag, if you will. The few who remain as advisers to the president s legal strategy, jay sekulow on the outside, his personal attorney, ty cobb on the inside. John dowds resignation was abrupt. They had some sense, i think, that he was eventually going to take a lesser role. But his departure last week was unknown to them and a shock. And now we have reported four highprofile attorneys have all been contacted in recent weeks and have all said no. People like ted olson, people like bob bennett, dan webb. It goes on and on. And we are told that most law firms are telling the president s allies, im sorry, this is just too nuclear a topic, too controversial for our clients, our partners, and this is not a client we are willing to take on. Especially stepping in now to a case that has already all but matured. Jeremy bash, on the question of what did the president know, when did he know it, could the president have possibly given dowd the permission, rolled this idea out himself . We have compiled just based on public reporting things this president has reportedly asked of the people around him. Asked james comey to shut down Michael Flynn. Asked Andrew Mccabe who he voted for. Don mcgahn to get the jus advertise department to fire mueller. Senior aides about interviews theyve conducted with mueller. Jeff sessions to investigate obama and the democrats. It is i guess based on this list within the realm of possibility. Yeah, legally speaking the president is sort of a magnet for the inappropriate. He sort of seems to stumble every time into these into this unethical territory of putting the arm on someone he shouldnt be putting an arm on, given his position as president. It would not surprise me at all if he asked directly how fast can i pardon these people and can i pardon myself . A magnet for the inappropriate, a phrase if not already in american jurisprudence sure should be. Michael schmidt, carol linnick, jeremy bash, our thanks for starting off our broadcast with a terrific conversation and great reporting. Coming up for us, another important thread in this Mueller Investigation. What it reveals about the Trump Campaigns connections to russia and who was talking to russians during the 16 campaign. Movement on two other legal issues that could haunt this president or harm him involving Stormy Daniels and the trump Family Business. The 11th hour on a wednesday night just getting under way. Just say the words and well beat the birds down to acapulco bay its perfect for a flying honeymoon they say come fly with me lets fly, lets fly away come fly with me lets fly, lets fly away so, my portfolio did pretthats great. Year. But the market was up nearly twice as much. Thats a tough pill to swallow. Exactly. So i started trading. But with everything out there, how do you know what to buy . Well, i think my friend victor has just the thing for you. Check this out, Td Ameritrade makes it easier to find the investments that might be right for you. Like our etf comparison tool it lets you see how etfs measure up to one another. Analyst ratings and past performance. Nice. Td ameritrade also offers access to coaches and a full education curriculum to help you improve your skills. That is cool. And if you still have any questions you can always chat with us on facebook or call our experienced service team, 24 7. Yep. Just because youre doing it yourself doesnt mean youre on your own. Thats great. Youre still up. Alright. Youre still up. If i knew you were gonna run the table i wouldnt have invited you over. Call 866 2950917. Act now to take advantage of commissionfree trades for 90 days, plus get up to an 800 cash bonus when you open and fund a new account. Can st gas, bloating, constipation and diarrhea can start in the colon and may be signs of an imbalance of good bacteria. Only Phillips Colon Health has this unique combination of probiotics. It helps replenish good bacteria. Get fourinone symptom defense. A new court ruling in court filing, i should say in Robert Muellers russia investigation giving a look at where the special counsel may be headed. According to this document, and this takes a little explaining, former Trump Campaign aide rick gates, hes an aide to manafort, was in contact during the 2016 campaign with a business associate tied to russian intelligence. Mark may zetty of the New York Times writes, gates had frequent phone calls in september and october 2016, note that date, with a person the fbi believes had active links to russian spy services at the time, the document said. Mr. Gates told the associate the person was a former russian Intelligence Officer with the gau. The person is identified as person a, and the document describes him as someone who worked for mr. Gates and Paul Manafort. Mueller just drew his most direct line to date between the Trump Campaign and russia. Whats particularly significant in the mueller filing are six words. And had such ties in 2016. Prosecutors have said previously that a longtime manafort and gates associate had ties to russian intelligence, but they have never said those ties remained during the 2016 campaign. And thats the distinction. And an nbc news headline distilled this story down to clear language citing muellers court filing. Trump campaigns gates knew he was speaking to russian intel agent. As you may recall, rick gates now cooperating with muellers team. But Paul Manafort as we mentioned early on in the broadcast tonight has pleaded not guilty on a number of charges, including money laundering, put another way for the sake of clarity, if manafort gets the book thrown at him, he will die behind bars. For more on all of this, we welcome to our broadcast mark mazetti, washington executive correspondent for the New York Times. We welcome back mika oyang, attorney and former staffer for the house intelligence and Armed Services committee. Mark, talk to us about how significant is this filing. Weve got people watching who probably read a headline on their devices and who have just gotten home from work, especially if they rely on the new york city subway system, theyre just getting home from work. Update them on what they need to know on this story. I think the significance is that you have a senior Trump Campaign adviser in the final weeks of the campaign whos having these communications with an associate who is, as mueller has said today, an active member of russian intelligence service, has active ties to the service, and who gates himself said he knew was a former gru officer. If you step back and you say, whats the cosmic significance . It just shows once again that the Trump Campaign was having these contacts with not only the russian government, with russians, but with people who were affiliated with the russian intelligence services. We dont know yet too much of the substance of the calls between gates and this individual, the man named constantine kalimnik. If you put together the totality of these contacts, it paints a picture of a Trump Campaign that finds itself frequently in contact with russian spy services. Meika, ill do that one better. He says cosmic connections. There is a constellation of people connected with the Trump Campaign and white house who have been in contact with russians. We have never seen this before in the history of our republic, certainly in modern politics and campaigning. This is all New Territory for all of us. So mika, with that buildup, whats the lead story, to you, as you read mr. Mazettis work . As i look at this story, what its showing is the Trump Administration has been denying there were actual contacts between the Trump Campaign and the russians. They were saying this activity took place before people are in the campaign. What this shows is that mueller is slowly, slowly tiptoeing up to the point where he can prove these ties between the Trump Campaign and the russians. Now we saw this in the papadopoulos plea agreement. We see this with this conversation with rick gates. Whats interesting, what mark was saying about not knowing the content of this conversation, we dont know publicly. But because rick gates is cooperating with the Mueller Investigation team, we should presume that mueller knows the content of those conversations. Mark, along the way were all getting a masters degree in contemporary russia. And weve learned that so many people who come up in the news are hyphenates, parttime oligarchs, parttime government types, parttime spies. Tell us about this man suspected to be person a with the for most of us the unpronounceable name and whats known about him . Consta tin worked with Paul Manafort and gates for years in their work as part of the prorussian government there. He was a business associate, he kept ties with manafort and gates really up to the end. And the question has been exactly how directly is he tied to russian intelligence . There was always suspicions of that, his background, that he may have had past ties. But the significance of the document today is that mueller and the fbi believes that these ties are pretty current. And to go to something that mika said, if you go to the papadopoulos case, you go to the famous trump tower incident with the russians meeting don jr. And senior officials. These it doesnt look like random coincidences anymore. It looks like not only were there eager attempts by the russians to make contact with the Trump Campaign, but the Trump Campaign was certainly eager to reciprocate. And i do have to say that in february of last year, the times wrote the first story about contacts with russian intelligence and we took some heat for it. But weve only seen case after case that have shown that these contacts were real. And mika, mr. Gates is not the most famous or infamous name in this case. He surfaces in the news from time to time. Lets talk about him for a moment. Hes cooperating, of course, which means, im guessing, that the feds have infiltrated his life. So whats the potential that he comes up with even more of this sort of thing . I think its very high. You have to remember that rick gates was not only Paul Manaforts righthand man, he was the deputy Campaign Manager for a time on the Trump Campaign. So he would have been privy to all kinds of strategic conversations went the Trump Campaign itself, and also privy to all these conversations manafort was having with these prorussian ukrainians. It may be he has a lot more information about how this web of connections works than we have seen publicly so far. We are happy to bring our viewers the face behind the byline mark mazetti at the times. Theres this story, theres the fact that hes one of the five bylines in our first segment tonight. We greatly appreciate you staying up with us after a better than average news day in the business, mark. And mika oyang, thank you as always for joining us. The former chief ethics lawyer to president george w. Bush and the white house on the multiple legal fronts trump is facing right now where the at fidelity, our online planning tools are clear and straightforward so you can plan for retirement while saving for the things you want to do today. Whoo while saving for the things we do whatev wes were proud to call our own. Experts from all over the world, working closely together to deliver truly personalized cancer care. Expert medicine works here. Learn more at cancercenter. Com the details. T comes tt late checkout. Downalternative pillows. And of course, price. Tripadvisor helps you book a. Hotel without breaking a sweat. Because we now instantly. Search over 200 booking sites. To find you the lowest price. On the hotel you want. Dont sweat your booking. Tripadvisor. The latest reviews. The lowest prices. But prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered. In jellyfish. In clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. The name to remember. As mr. Mueller looms over this white house, the president is fiesing mounting legal pressure on other fronts. Stormy daniels attorney, Michael Avenatti, has filed a motion asking permission to depose President Trump and his lawyer, Michael Cohen. Its not known if these depositions will ever actually happen. If they did, trump would likely have to address Stormy Daniels allegations under oath. President trump has repeatedly denied Stormy Daniels claims through white house officials. As the Washington Post points out, in the motion avenatti said he intends to prove that the hush agreement did not have a lawful object or purpose, rather, the agreement and the 130,000 payment made pursuant to the agreement was for the purpose of influencing the 2016 president ial election. Michael cohen has said the payment came from his own personal funds, a line of credit, in fact. And not the Trump Campaign or the trump organization. Earlier today, avenatti defended his move on cbs news. You mentioned clinton versus paula jones in your motion. Why is that relevant . Its the Supreme Court precedent. The Supreme Court already decided that a sitting president can be deposed in connection with a civil matter. If that was the law then, it certainly is the law now and hasnt been overturned. We heard from the other side in this, an attorney for Michael Cohen said the motion is a reckless use of the legal system in order to continue to inflate Michael Avenattis deflated ego and keep himself relevant. So they went personal. We also learned today that a federal judge is allowing a lawsuit to proceed that accused President Trump of ref sieving improper payments or emoluments from foreign governments through his washington hotel. This is from democratic attorneys general from maryland and d. C. The argument is the president s hotel and event spaces have an unfair advantage over their own Convention Centers because of their ties to the president. They do bear his name. The department of justice says the harm is speculative. Here to talk about it, peter baker, chief White House Correspondent for the New York Times and msnbc political analyst. And richard petyr, former chief white house ethics lawyer for president george w. Bush 43. We should tell you richard is involved in three emoluments lawsuits against the president , including todays. We should also tell you, full disclosure, he is contemplating a run for al frankens Old Senate Seat in the great state of minnesota. Gentlemen, welcome to you both. Peter, ill begin with you. Sooner or later, this president s going to be facing real legal problems. Youve got russia, youve got Stormy Daniels et al. , and now you have the Family Business which everybody kind of knew about going in. Yeah, no, thats exactly right. It is hard not to think paing to bill clinton and the paula jones case. And the reason why is paula jones was a state employee in arkansas who alleged that the thengovernor clinton sexually harassed her and she filed a lawsuit. Sexual harassment lawsuit. It was allowed to go forward by the Supreme Court on a unanimous vote. The Supreme Court said at the time of course a president ought to be subject to civil litigation while in office and it shouldnt take up that much of his time. I think everybody ultimately learned from that example that it can, in fact, have great consequences, a civil lawsuit. That civil lawsuit not only led to the president of the United States being deposed as Michael Avenatti seeks to do here. It led to the Monica Lewinski case because president clinton told false stories under oath about Monica Lewinski in that lawsuit. These have great consequences. They can detour, sidetrack a presidency in ways you might not imagine on the front end. You can see why President Trumps attorney will regret the effort to quash this lawsuit and at the very least avoid any kind of deposition. Lets talk about emoluments which to many people sounds like the active ingredient in a moisturizer. This assumes if youre coming from the uae or senegal or fiji, common sense would tell you, hey, if we get our rooms at the trump hotel and then maybe during that conference in washington, let it be known we brought him our business, hes subject to flattery, it may mean good things for us. This, these suits as i understand it, are people, cities, hotels who are saying, were losing out on business. They are trying to prove harm to their livelihood. And thats how theyre getting hurt in court. Is that close to correct . Well, yes, thats the standing argument. As to why they get to go into court and ask the judge for injunctive relief. What the president is doing is violating the emoluments clause of the constitution, and its really a very simple concept, because the founders were aware of this problem. Emolument means profit or benefit. And the founders did not want, they specifically prohibited any person who holds a position of trust in the United States government from receiving profits or benefits from foreign governments. So thats whats going on. When foreign governments patronize these hotels. Its unconstitutional, its a form of influence over the United StatesGovernment Official by the foreign government. The founders didnt want it. They put it in the constitution. And thats exactly what that language means. And were going to expect the judge to rule on that and interpret the emoluments clause, explain it to the president what the law is. Not just with respect to that hotel, but the law is the same with respect to the entire trump business empire. And thats why were going to court. We filed three of these, three separate lawsuits in front of three federal judges. I have to mention that congress has an obligation to enforce the emoluments clause as well ask they need to be having hearings on this. Neither the house nor the senate want to do that. The republicans in particular are reticent to stand up to President Trump on this issue, even though its a serious constitutional violation. And thats one of the reasons im looking at that senate seat in minnesota. Ive hired a consultant to look at it. We need people in congress who are going to enforce the constitution of the United States. And meanwhile were going to ask the judges to look at this and the judge in maryland is going to be doing that as well. This is a very, very serious situation. It was contemplated by the founders, its in the constitution, and hes violating it. Peter baker, lets call it judicial restraint. Have you been amazed at the selective silence on the part of this president on all things Stormy Daniels related . I am reminded he has plans to go to the friendly confines of maralago as early as tomorrow night to catch the tail end of his familys week of spring break. Yeah, he has been very quiet. Hes somebody whos not restrained, as you pointed commenting on almost any other matter that comes before him, matters that have nothing to do with him. Hes a watcher of television, he likes to weigh in on many, many different subjects. Hes not somebody who holds back. But on this subject, at least, he has been very, very quiet. And that is what any lawyer would tell a client to do. But as weve seen in the past, this is a client who sometimes doesnt listen to the advice of lawyers. Its interesting that he is here. His lawyers im sure are telling him any lawyer would tell him, you can only make things worse by commenting publicly, so keep out of it. He seems to be listening to that advice at this point. Whether he will continue to in the days to come, who can say. He went for several months listening to his lawyers telling him not to attack Robert Mueller directly, then over the last week or so has clearly shifted course in that direction. When he got frustrated. If he gets frustrated further in this situation, you can imagine him changing his pattern. Richard painter, if the president came to you and made an argument, appealed to your patriotism, and said, i need you, a firstclass lawyer, to join my legal team, yes, its late in the game, what would you say to him . Well, id tell him he needs to stop obstructing justice and violating the constitution. And i do not want to represent clients who are continually violating the law. And thats what ive seen from this president. Hes violating the law. And just today weve heard this story that his lawyer apparently was shopping around the idea of giving pardons to people who were implicated in the russia investigation. That implies that they may be trying to buy testimony or interfere with the russia investigation. This is outrageous. I agree with my law school classmate, george conway, who tweeted out today about that, that hes just flabbergasted that this kind of things going on. And i think mr. Conway is right. I dont know if his wife, kellyanne, agrees with him. But this is absolutely flabbergasting, whats happening in this administration. No way id want to be their lawyer. Two gentlemen, one view of our politics and the state of our nation in 2018. Peter baker, richard painter, thank you both very much for joining our conversation. Coming up, the president has fired yet another cabinet secretary, yet again on twitter. What we know about the president s pick to take over when the 11th hour continues. Not quite. Just the result of dell emc working with callaway to gather data and design bestinclass clubs, transforming the player into a bonafide golfer. Oh maybe it is a magic wand. Magic cant make Digital Transformation happen. But we can. Thats the power dell emc, part of dell technologies. At a comfort inn with a glow taround them, so people watching will be like, wow, maybe ill glow too if i book direct at choicehotels. Com. Who glows . Just say, badda book. Badda boom. Book now at choicehotels. Com. Sometimes you need an expert. I got it. And sometimes those experts need experts. On it. [ crash ] and sometimes the expert the expert needed Needs Insurance expertise. Its all good. Steve, youre covered for general liability. And, paul, we got your back with workers comp. Wow, its like a party in here. Where are the hors doeuvres, right . [ clanking ] tartlets . We cover commercial vehicles, too. I think theres something wrong with your sink. We cover commercial vehicles, too. Jimmys gotten used to his whole yup, hes gone noseblind. Odors. He thinks it smells fine, but his mom smells this. Luckily for all your hardtowash fabrics. Theres febreze fabric refresher. Febreze doesnt just mask, it eliminates odors youve. Gone noseblind to. And try Febreze Unstopables for fabric. With up to twice the fresh scent power, youll want to try it. Again and again and maybe just one more time. Indulge in irresistible freshness. Febreze unstopables. Breathe happy. You wouldnt accept from any one else. Why accept it from your allergy pills . Flonase relieves your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills dont. Flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. Most pills only block one. Flonase. I also want to express our appreciation for secretary shellkin who is implementing the dramatic reform throughout the va. I have no doubt it will be properly implemented. Right, david . Better be david. Well never have to use those words. Well never have to use those words on our david. Well, after weeks of uncertainty, david shull kin, our david, is out as secretary of veterans affairs. The last obamaera carryover in the trump cabinet. He was in good favor with the president until he wasnt. He took heavy incoming fire after an internal report showed serious derelictions surrounding a trip taken to europe with his wife, the tab 100,000, in the uk they accepted tickets to wimbledon. The report found his chief of staff doctored an email so taxpayers would cover the trips expense. Trump on twitter writing, i am pleased to announce i intent to nom night highly respected ronnie l. Jackson, m. D. , as executive of vit rans affairs. I am thankful for dr. David shull kins service to our country and to our great veterans. And while shull kins rumored possible replacements ran the gamut from a fox news host to a threestor army general, the president s choice was a genuine surprise. He chose his doctor, the fit to the president , to run the secondlargest agency in all of our government. Ten times bigger than the fbi. You may remember the doctor from his memorable oncamera briefing after examining his patient, the president. U. S. Navy rear admiral Ronnie Jackson was selected as white house physician back in 06. He previously treated president obama. And just last week he was promoted and received his second star. Here is a bit from that memorable briefing a few months back. He has absolutely no, you know, cognitive or, um, mental issues whatsoever, that he is very sharp. He has incredibly good genes. His heart is very healthy. Hes very sharp. And you know, hes very articulate when he speaks to me. More stamina and more energy than just about anybody there. His cardiac health is excellent. He has incredible genes. Remain fit for duty for the remainder of this term and even for the remainder of another term if hes leaked. Lets talk about this with retired fourstar u. S. Army general, former battlefield commander in the persian gulf, he served as this nations drug czar under president clinton. General what do you make of this choice . And im also curious as to your Customer Experience as a more important than average customer of the va. Well, its certainly a very unusual appointment. By all accounts, by the way, this young admiral is a superb fit. Look at his background. Hes been the honor graduate of most of his courses. He was a combat doctor in iraq. So hes genuinely a very capable fit with a lot of time in washington. And hes got the confidence of the president of the United States. I must admit, though, its unusual to have someone of that background whos been running for 12 years now, hes been running a couple hundred people in the white house, to now be in charge of 180 billion budget, 380,000 employees. And its not just health care. I mean, theres 131 cemeteries for gosh sakes. Veterans benefits program, which is byzantine beyond belief. Its a very unusual appointment. Weve got to wish him well. Some people say this is another possible step toward privatizing more of the va, and there are two distinct opinions about that. Whats your take on that . Well, i think thats that was the major reason secretary shulkin got canned. He had a boneheaded incident with the travel thing but i think he was fighting with political appointees in his own agent. I must admit there is an argument that the va, which is an absolutely National Treasure to the veterans once youre in it, in the system, theyre just terrific docs, medical care is first rate. We spend a ton of money supporting our veterans. The most generous nation on the face of the earth to our veterans. But the vas got endemic problems. Theyve had a lot of problems with institutional lack of integrity. Not telling the boss the truth. They just cant seem to organize themselves. There is a solid argument to have every veteran have a credit card with a chip in it that says, heres the care hes authorized, and let the veteran decide whether to go to a va facility or to go to a private practitioner. I might add, thats a way the military medical retirement system works. If i had a choice, id go to walter reed. Because i live in seattle, i use swedish hospital. So i think weve got to do something to have competition and to downsize the va and not try and have them take care of the direct care of veterans all over the nation. With us from washington tonight, always a great pleasure to have you on the broadcast, general barry mccaffrey, sir, thank you very much. All right, brian, good to be with you. Coming up tonight for us, a passionate protest in californias capital city. It has captured National Attention for all the wrong reasons. Well bring you the latest after this break. With esurance photo claims, you could have money for repairs within a day. Wow that was really fast. So it doesnt have to hurt for long. Thats insurance for the modern world. Esurance, an allstate company. Click or call. Pictures from the west coast tonight just in to us. A new round of protest stopped rush hour traffic tonight in sacramento. Thats after the Police Shooting of an unarmed father there. Stephon clark was shot 20 times and killed by Police Officers last week. We have a report on this whole situation in sacramento tonight from nbc news correspondent joe fryar. Reporter anger is boiling over in sacramento. Hundreds showed up for a special meeting focused on death of stephon clark. Those officers need to be fired. The clarks brother stevante jumping up. He had a personality and his smile was out this word. There are reports he was breaking car windows when police confronted him in his mothers back yard. They thought he was armed. But clark had no weapon, just a cell phone. Californias attorney general is now joining the investigation into the shooting. Clarks family wants more. We are going to correspond with the department of justice and attorney general Jeff Sessions to open a federal investigation. Reporter today White House Press secretary Sarah Sanders was asked about highprofile Police Shootings, including the clark case. This is something that is a local matter and thats something that we should be left up to the local authorities at this point in time. That late report from joe fryar out in sacramento. That is of course why there is a movement called black lives matter. A lot of people are paying attention to sacramento tomorrow. A final break. The president today stirred up confusion on social media, which we will attempt to fix right after this break. Little things can be a big deal. Thats why theres otezla. Otezla is not an injection or a cream. Its a pill that treats psoriasis differently. With otezla, 75 clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months,. With reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. And the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. Dont use if youre allergic to otezla. Otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. Tell your doctor if these occur. Otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. Tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. Some people taking otezla reported weight loss. Your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. Other side effects include upper respiratory tract infection and headache. Tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if youre pregnant or planning to be. Otezla. Show more of you. You wouldnt accept from any one else. Why accept it from your allergy pills . Flonase relieves your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills dont. Flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. Most pills only block one. Flonase. Are you ready . We will build build that wall. Build that wall. A great wall along the southern border. Build that wall build that walt. Who is going to pay for that wall . Mexico the wall is peanuts compared to what were talking about. Were going to have a wall, folks. Were going to have a serious wall. Its a high ceiling. That will do. We will use the best technology, including above and below ground sensors, above and below. Towers, aerial surveillance. The wall is a thousand miles, right . Believe me, so easy. You build buildings, this is like easy. Still no late word on mexican funding. But the last thing before we go here tonight is something the president ran on and really constructed his campaign around, specifically, though, lets talk about something the president tweeted today. Here it is, the text reads, great briefing this afternoon on the start of our southern border wall, its accompanied by photos showing what is apparently an incredible engineering and construction project of great size and scope. And then the l. A. Times came along and ruined everything with this headline, trump tweets that his border wall construction has started. It hasnt. They quote a spokesman for the Border Patrol, forgive us for thinking perhaps a former Border Patrol as saying the following during a media tour earlier this month, first and foremost, this isnt trumps wall. This isnt the infrastructure that trump is trying to bring in. This new wall replacement has absolutely nothing to do with the prototypes that were shown over in the san diego area. Indeed the kill joys at the l. A. Times say the wall construction the president is tweeting about today is a replacement project that started back in 09. So that is our round up of the real news tonight from the southern border and that is indeed our broadcast on a wednesday evening. Thank you so very much for being here with us. Good night from nbc news headquarters here in new york. Happy to have you here. Do you remember when he was going to hire his personal pilot to be the head of the faa . Sure, why not . Trump air operations during the Campaign Includes one plane tearing off the runway and almost kareening on to a highway and almost shutting down the airport. And a pilot who nobody noticed was a fugitive from justice actively wanted on multiple felonies. But trump likes his guy that flew his planes and isnt there something in the federal government that has to do with airplanes . Sure, why not. That idea came up just last month. Who knows, maybe trump will put himself personal pilot in charge of the faa