Good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. Day 405 of the Trump Administration, and it will take us all of this next hour just to tell you what has happened this evening. There are major developments on several fronts, heres a look at the headlines from again just the last several hours. Nbc news has learned exclusively that Robert Mueller is asking witnesses if mr. Trump had advance knowledge about emails stolen from the dnc and the clinton campaign. That reporting comes from our own colleagues, katy tur and carol lee. The Washington Post reporting tonight mueller is also looking at trumps apparent efforts to oust attorney general Jeff Sessions from his post. Just today, the president said his own attorney general was disgraceful. And then tonight, the attorney general, Jeff Sessions, the very man, shows up in a very public, highend d. C. Restaurant, and he brings along a very special guest. Axios describes it this way, a show of solidarity with Deputy Attorney general rod rosenstein, who is overseeing the mueller investigation. Then late this evening, the New York Times is on the board with reporting that Jared Kushners family real estate business received hundreds of millions of dollars in loans from citigroup and Apollo Global management after those two Companies Leaders met with kushner at the white house. Well have more again on each of these stories as we span across the next hour. We will begin, however, with a big change involving the president s inner circle. Hope hicks, easily the closest aide to this president on a daily basis, has announced she is leaving. Word of her departure in a story broken by Maggie Haberman of the New York Times comes one day after hope hicks spent over nine hours of questioning by the house Intelligence Committee. Among the things she told the panel, she sometimes told white lies for the president , except where russia or the investigation were concerned. Thats according to Committee Member congressman peter king, republican of new york. Hope hicks is 29 years old. She is the fifth person to hold the title of Communications Director in just over a year for this white house. She goes back to the start of the campaign. She was there on every flight, at every stop with donald trump. A photo posted to instagram by trump aide dan scavino indicates how essential shes been to donald trump. That photo taken aboard the helicopter, marine one. Thats mr. Porter in the seat opposite her, the former staff secretary at the white house. Hope hicks flying with the president. And when he was running for the presidency, donald trump made a point of singling her out at rallies. And hope hicks. This is hope. This is hope. This is hope. Nobody takes more phone calls i think in a day than hope. I have a great staff, i have a great staff. One of whom comes from connecticut. Hope hicks. She used to be in my Real Estate Company. I said, what do you know about politics . She said, absolutely nothing. I said, congratulations, youre in. Right . She knew nothing. She was there the first day. And she was fantastic. And i just say a couple of words. Shes a little shy but thats okay. Because she is really, really talented. Hope . Say a couple of words. Hi. Merry christmas, everyone. And thank you, donald trump to our leadoff panel on a frantic wednesday night, katy tur, who broke todays news on Robert Muellers investigation,ing a with colleague carol lee. Katy covered the Trump Campaign from the start and wrote a book from her experience appropriately called unbelievable. Eli stokols, he also covered the Trump Campaign, he is an msnbc political analyst. And Philip Rucker did as well, the White House Bureau chief for the Washington Post and an msnbc political analyst. Philip, im going to start with you. Why is hope hicks leaving, and why now . Well, brian, in her sort of official version of events shes leaving because shes ready to move on. Shes ready to explore opportunities in the private sector, to get back closer to her family in connecticut. White house officials tell us shes simply exhausted and emotionally and physically drained by working for three straight years in the trump orbit. But the timing is, of course, interesting. It comes a day after she was testifying for nine hours with the Intelligence Committee about the russia probe. She has become ensnared in this russia investigation. Shes met with Robert Mueller, the special counsel. Because of her special and unique and close relationship with President Trump, shes not just a communications professional, shes his confidant. She advises him on really all matters, from the most substantive to the most trivial. And she has been in that role at his side for three straight years. So she knows a lot. Eli, lets look at another aspect of this. Think of the price she has paid by dint of being in this circle. What will probably be hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees by the time this is all over. Having her love life splashed across the news, around the world, really. Photographers outside her apartment. Is anyone drawing a Straight Line from yesterdays nine hours of testimony to todays departure . Not a straight one. Although i think look, she may have had plans for an exit strategy for a while. Three years is a long time in trump world. And i think, you know, what you talked about in terms of the scrutiny of her personal relationships, i think what happened with rob porter was really traumatizing, on top of all the pressure that she already feels about the mueller probe. Here is a guy that shes in a relationship with, news breaks of that. Suddenly his two exwives come forward, theres a huge scandal, allegations of assault, and he leaves. And also something that happened there, she got on the bad side of President Trump when she decided to help craft a statement for porter. The white house essentially defended for a long time as the story shifted around. She was involved in crafting a statement. The president told his confidants and friends outside that he was disappointed in that. I think all of this just adds up to a lot of fatigue and frustration, and i can tell you that the timing, this may have been something that was sort of planned, there were statements that accompanied this news today that were ready to go. But theres not a replacement ready to go and the white house tonight is scrambling to try to figure out what to do and how to manage this. That gives you some indication that this may not have been a total surprise, but it happened pretty quick. Katy tur, let me take now another side. In the parlance of witnesses and prosecutors this young woman is a potential whale for the mueller investigation. She knows so much. She has seen so much in this job. Talk to us about the hope hicks you came to know. Shes in the innermost of the inner circles. She has been there since the beginning. Donald trump said it himself on stage. Since before the campaign began. When donald trump was crafting his policy positions, when he was deciding to be friendly towards russia, which obviously is of interest to the mueller campaign, she was there as he was doing that. She was there when he announced, when he was in the campaign. She was there for that july 27th press conference where he said, russia, if youre listening, find the emails. She was there when the gop platform was changed. She was there as her boss waved around the wikileaks emails. She was in the white house when he fired james comey. She has been there for all of the major and pivotal moments of not only the campaign, but of the administration. And not only there, not like on the outside and just hearing bit about it through news reports or having them filter down. In the room with him as these things either were happening or the explanations were being written out and explained and decided what was going to be told to reporters. She can reveal perhaps more than anybody can reveal. If shes not the key figure here, shes certainly loosening the lock. Philip rucker, we talk about donald trump. Theres this storyline about how he values loyalty. Im just wondering if its accurate still. Weve put together a graphic of some of the bigger names who have departed. And perhaps you can fill in what should be the storyline. Loyalty until what happens . Well, loyalty only goes so far, and brian, thats a long list there. There are a lot of people who have cycled in and out of this white house in these 13 months. But look, the president demands absolute loyalty. And a lot of his aides serve him loyally, but he turns on them when either they create bad pr for him, when they pull him down, when they hurt his image, when they make a mistake that he feels he cant recover from. Hell turn on his aides and weve seen it time and again. A number of people have resigned prematurely from this white house. But in reality, theyve been fired or pushed out. I dont think thats the case with hope hicks. We certainly dont have reporting to indicate thats the case. She and trump have had a very close relationship and trump actually put out a statement praising her as part of the rollout of this announcement this afternoon. But loyaltys a big the biggest factor, i think, in this white house and with this president. Katy, ive watched every show on cable since this news broke this afternoon. And every show has had at least one person point out, this president is his own Communications Director. That said, hope hicks sat right outside the oval office and was just involved in the daily grind, the daily churn in the white house. Well, he is his own Communications Director. He has his own twitter see, now you said it. You can add me to the list. Thats hopes line, youve heard hold on look at it another way. This is now donald trump alone, essentially, in the white house. His loyalists, those closest to him, his family, other than ivanka and jared, arent there any longer. Hes losing key person after key person. Hope hicks is now gone, keith shiller, his personal bodyguard, is no longer there. They were the ones that he would speak to in private. He would confide in. They were his friends and his family within the white house. If you look at whos left from the beginning of the campaign, the very beginning of the campaign, the only person thats not ivanka or jared is dan scavino, his social media manager. We have reporting the special counsel is asking about him. Other than that its stephen miller, kellyanne conway, everybody else has left. Will they recruit for this job . There was some speculation on Nicole Wallaces show they wouldnt fill this job. I think they will fill this job, if for nothing else they know these personnel dramas, the personalities of this administration, thats a big part of the show, that is something that obscures a lot of other things. Were starting off tonights broadcast talking about this and not the other insane things that happened today. And the bombshell news reports that i know youre going to get to. So i think the personnel drama is a big part of the white house story. I know for a fact there are meetings taking place at the white house tonight about filling this job. There are a lot of people who believe mercedes schlapp, who has been there not all that long, is probably the frontrunner for this position. There are other people who have been called in at the last minute to talk about this job, to talk about the strategy. And i think that just tells you that this is going to be filled, whether or not its hard to understand why people would want this job at this point. But what does this mean about john kellys power . We heard in the last couple of days that john kelly has now diminished Jared Kushners security clearance, when nobody expected him to be able to do that. They expected that the president would put pressure on him and allow Jared Kushner to remain operating with that interim security clearance at the level he was. Hes downgraded him. Now hope hicks is out. What does this mean with john kelly . Is his power only getting larger here . Or are we seeing Something Big happening behind the scenes that we just dont know about this. We are seeing the disintegration of that jared and ivanka wing of the white house. Phil rucker, take the last word, answer that question about kelly. Yeah, well, it certainly seems like a power consolidation by john kelly. But one thing thats so important with hope hicks departure and katy got it a little bit is that the president is very alone right now. I interviewed doug brinkley, the president ial historian tonight, and he said hes a lone wolf president , isolated if his own white house, hes raging against the Justice Department, he doesnt have confidants left anymore, and his friends are out the door. As they say, what could possibly go wrong . Look to twitter. Yeah, exactly. Watch this space. Katy tur, eli stokols, phil rucker, we appreciate you for starting us off tonight. It was a remarkable moment in a campaign full of remarkable moments. Donald trump calling on russia to find those hacked democratic emails. Tonight, new reporting on why its of particular interest to mueller. Later, Jared Kushner the subject of this damaging New York Times story tonight. Its about hundreds of millions of dollars. 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Still yes xfinity delivers gig speed to more homes than anyone. Now you can get it, too. Welcome to the party. Russia, if youre listening, i hope youre able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. Remember that moment. When asked about that comment by donald trump on the campaign trail, his press secretary, sean spicer, later said that trump was joking. As weve mentioned today, two of our own, katy tur and carol lee, shed new light on how those comments are impacting the ongoing russia investigation. They did so in an nbc news exclusive report. They write, special counsel Robert Muellers team is asking witnesses pointed questions about whether donald trump was aware that democratic emails had been stolen before that was publicly known and whether he was involved in their strategic release, according to multiple people familiar with the probe. President trump has repeatedly denied any collusion with russia, as you may have heard. He most recently composed a twoword tweet just yesterday, very simply witch hunt all caps. One of the colors authors of th report, katy tur, has agreed to stick around and join this conversation. From the great city of chicago, jo winebanks, former watergate attorney, special counsel, nbc legal analyst. Katy, what kinds of questions is mueller interested in, what do they tell about a broader canvas he might be painting . So this is significant because we all thought that the investigation, or it seemed like the investigation was moving more towards, did donald trump obstruct justice . When he fired james comey . And was he trying to hamper the investigation into collusion . Which it may well cover. Which it may well cover as well. These questions focus directly on donald trump himself and what he knew and when he knew it about the emails that were stolen, not only from the dnc, but from the clinton campaign. You played that press conference a moment ago. Thats july 27th, 2016. I was at that press conference. And it was right in the middle of the dnc. Right in the middle of the Democratic National convention. And hes asked about these dnc emails that were just starting to trickle out. Will you tell russia to stop interfering or not to meddle in our elections . And he says, i dont need to tell russia anything. And then pivots and says, if you have these emails, these Hillary Clinton emails, please release them. That was a big deal to investigators back then, thats when they started looking into this. And now the special counsel wants to know, was he told to say that by somebody . Was that line scripted, or was it ad libbed . If it was scripted or if he was told to say that or if it was something he intentionally was saying, why was he saying it . Or was he saying it to potentially give himself some cover . Did he know not necessarily about the dnc emails that were already coming out, but that john podesta would later be targeted . And what did roger stone have to do with this . Because roger stone, whos Donald Trumps longtime confidant, no longer working with the campaign at this point, had tweeted very shortly after that that podestas time in the barrel was going to come, then podestas emails come out. Was roger stone still working in unofficial capacity for donald trump, and were they somehow backchanneling to Julian Assange or wikileaks . Its a pointed line of questioning that really shows you that donald trump is still at the center of this investigation. So jill, pointed line of questioning. What does it demonstrate to you about mueller . It shows that the investigation is both obstruction of justice, which it has always been, but it is really focusing now on the conspiracy and working with russia. The socalled collusion part of this investigation. And that it isnt just don jr. , but it is the president himself whos involved in this. And i think the evidence is really getting much clearer that there is definitely not just an obstruction, which ive said from you asked me almost eight or nine months ago if i thought there was obstruction. I thought there was. Now i know there is. But i also am equally convinced that there is collusion. Yeah, the commercial airs every four minutes still. Hey, jill, is it the point in the investigation where mueller is switches to asking only those questions he already knows the answers to . Is this factfinding or is this casebuilding and corroboration now . I would say hes building the case. And hes getting ready for either indictments or a report to congress for impeachment. Or some other form of action against additional people. And from what we know, hes really into the details. And when he asks questions, people are surprised by how much he knows and the detail he knows. Where people were sitting in a meeting. Not just that they were at a meeting. And i think that this is all part of how you really build a very compelling case. Because in the case of the president or anyone as significant in his administration, you need more evidence than you would if it was just an ordinary citizen. Because it will take more to convince a jury of guilt than it would if it was just an ordinary citizen. So hes going to be very careful in building his case. Thats an important element for him to do. And i think theyre doing, from all we can hear, they know a lot more than we know. And its going to be Something Big. The speed that this is happening is amazing. Because if you look at what happened today, you cant make this stuff up. Its almost hard to comprehend. From the morning to the evening all the things that happened in one day. And how many people have left the white house, for whatever the reasons theyve left, are people who he named a new campaign director, and hes already involved in a scandal one day later. Yeah. Its a lot to fit into one hour, ill say that. And all of it today fits into the you cant make this stuff up category. Our thanks to our friends, katy tur and jill winebanks, really appreciate you both coming on. Coming up, the latebreaking story in the New York Times tonight. It means deeper trouble for the president s top aide and soninlaw who was already having a bad week. Lets go back to breaking news from the New York Times tonight. This was is, as we said already, a bad week to be Jared Kushner. Senior adviser to the president who is not allowed the security clearance that would normally come with his job. Tonight the times is reporting that kushners family real estate business received massive loans after he met with executives from the lenders. According to the times, joshua harris, a founder of Apollo Global management, was advising Trump Administration officials on infrastructure policy. During that period, he met on multiple occasions with Jared Kushner. Among other things, the two men discussed a possible white house job for mr. Harris. The job never materialized, but in november, apollo lent 184 million to mr. Kushners family Real Estate Firm kushner companies. The report continues, an even larger loan came from citigroup which lent the firm and one of its partners 325 million to help finance a group of Office Buildings in brooklyn. That loan was made in the spring of 2017, shortly after mr. Kushner met in the white house with citigroups chief executive, michael corebat. Kushner resigned as ceo of his Real Estate Company when he went to work at the white house but held on to most of his stake in it. Both lenders told the times they did not discuss kushners Family Business in those meetings. However, the times goes on to say this. This blurring of lines is now a potential liability for mr. Kushner, who recently lost his top security clearance amid worries from some United States officials foreign governments might try to gain ins influenza with the white house by doing business with mr. Kushner. Lets talk about this with our guests, tamara keith, White House Correspondent for National Public radio. And michael crowley, National Security editor for politico. Tamara, obviously these are allegations, this is a story running in the times tonight. What will get so many people angry and energized is the optics all over again. This building that is so special in the history of our nation, that sits on 18 acres in washington, d. C. , people approach it with awe. People enter it to serve the people of the United States. But these stories have been about enrichment instead. Right. And there is a lot of correlation in this story. And theres a lot of correlation because Jared Kushner didnt divest. He has these Large Holdings in his familys company. His familys company is massive and does a lot of business with a lot of different other organizations. And so theyre just there simply is this perception problem that there isnt a great answer to. And this is not the first time that Jared Kushner has run into trouble with his Family Business, creating headlines that he doesnt want for the white house. His sister was in china making a pitch to investors that involved visas. And of course in the transition, Jared Kushner met with the russian banker, and there are differing accounts about what that meeting was about. This all traces back to the fact that although he has no longer any sort of handson role, according to kushner and the people who speak for him, he still owns a stake in this very vast company. Michael, we said as recently as last night, to get everybodys cards out on the table, an organic Talent Search for a Senior Adviser to the president of the United States would not have returned the name of this 37yearold in the real estate business in new york. It just wouldnt have. Having said that, this story adds to his troubles, certainly, and will probably add to the people questioning his viability and his job. Theres no question, brian. I would say, in particular, to the degree that he has assumed a large Foreign Policy portfolio, hes all the more unqualified, frankly. And an odd choice for the role he has in the white house. His defenders will say he has the trust of the president and thats very important in diplomacy. There is something to be said for that. But generally speaking, this is somebody who knows very little about how National Security and Foreign Policy works. People spend a life time getting up to speed on these issues. And it raises real problems. And as the Washington Post reported in their excellent story last night, officials in several major foreign governments were talking about the fact that they saw kushner as naive and inexperienced. And also were looking at his Family Business liabilities, the huge amount of debt that theyve incurred and their need for foreign investments, and were looking for ways to exploit that. One last point, brian. The response to the New York Times arlington night from i believe it was a maybe a spokesman for kushners lawyer. But the general response has been, this is unfair insinuation, youre not proving that anything has clearly been done wrong here, youre drawing infor instances. My response to that would be, really this white house has lost the benefit of the doubt on these questions and has earned deep skepticism and merciless scrutiny. They dont release visitor logs, so we dont know whos coming and going. Jared kushner and donald trump have flouted all kinds of norms when it comes to outside business interests, transparency, what you say about your business. And lets not even speak of the entire question of nepotism and whether Jared Kushner should be in the west wing in the first place. Really i think we dont have any proven ethical or criminal violation here by any means at this point, but this white house has earned suspicion and lost benefit of the doubt. So tamara, how long is this tenable . Especially given what we are hearing and seeing and reading about the Kushner Kelly relationship among the survivors in the west wing . Yeah so how long is this tenable is the question that is asked about a lot of different people in this white house. Yeah, sorry about that. Go ahead, i mean, take a swing. Yeah, let me try. You know, its not clear. To be perfectly honest. And the issue also becomes that hope hicks is out, President Trump is surrounded by outsiders at this point. He doesnt have many people around him who he trusts. And we know for a fact that he prizes family and loyalty above all else. So the question becomes, you know, does this become a problem for the president . Does Jared Kushner become a problem for the president . Not divesting from his familys business is certainly not something that the president could complain about, given that he also is still receiving money from his Family Business. And michael, a final word from you. You opened this door. How can kushner continue on just the middle east front when so much what was we deal with from there, human signals, intelligence among our highest bracketed top secret information . Its really hard to see how he can do that, brian. You know, again, you could have brought him in and he does have business experience, he knows a lot of very wealthy people, knows some thing wts real estate, maybe give him some kind of domestic economic portfolio, maybe. He would still be under qualified i would argue. On the Foreign Policy front, now hes shut off from huge amounts of crucial information, so much of our Foreign Policy decisionmaking is actually based on information that the rest of the world doesnt get to see. The white house is looking a couple of steps ahead, knowing whats coming down the pike, knowing what foreign leaders are saying in private. He may not be privy to that position. And i think that really hamstrings him, including in these sensitive issues of middle east peace negotiations that he has played such a large role in. So its hard to see how it continues, brian. And you know, this was also a tough week for ivanka, who faced some very awkward questions for her about allegations against her father about his treatment of women, and boy, washington has become a really inhospitable place for them. I dont know anything about their plans, but it would not at all surprise me to see them pull of stakes in the foreseeable future. Tap ra, keith, well be listening. Were much obliged to both of you for coming on tonight, thank you. Coming up, its the president versus the attorney general once again. You can do it. We can do this. At fidelity, our online planning tools are clear and straightforward so you can plan for retirement while saving for the things you want to do today. Whoo i had severe fatigue, became diagnosed with hodgkins lymphoma. He was a good candidate for immune therapy, which is allowing his immune system to attack the tumor. Learn more at cancercenter. Com somesend you and your family overwhelrunning. Y can. 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Will take forever, has no prosecutorial power, and already late with reports on comey, et cetera. Isnt the ig an obama guy . Why not use Justice Department lawyers . Disgraceful. It all goes back to sessions recusing himself, taking him out of the russia investigation. Trump has called sessions beleaguered, he has even reportedly asked him to resign directly. Sessions typically doesnt respond to these attacks. But today he issued a rare Public Statement and took the rare step of pushing back. We have initiated the appropriate process that will ensure complaints against this department will be fully and fairly acted upon if necessary. As long as i am the attorney general, i will continue to discharge my duties with integrity and honor. And if that statement wasnt enough, axios obtained this photo tonight. Jeff sessions having dinner with Robert Muellers supervisor, Deputy Attorney general rod rosenstein. An uncharacteristically boldiner choi dinner choice. You can bet the president was told of it by the Time Sessions and rosenstein were being asked if they wanted bottle water or tap. Here with us tonight to talk about it, Matthew Nussbaum of politico. And raj day who served under president obama. He also happens to be former general counsel to the nsa, and importantly, former Principal Deputy assistant attorney general at doj. Raj, this is hardly obama versus holder. How do you process all of this, given your experience . Well, brian, given everything weve seen over the past year, up until tonight, i think there can be little room for doubt that we are witnessing the president of the United States waging political war against his own Justice Department and fbi. And sometimes it can seem like a hot war when he fires the fbi director. And sometimes it can seem like a cold war when hes publicly shaming his attorney general. But make no doubt about it, this is a political war. So matthew, now we know from the Washington Post that mueller is interested in these attempts to fire sessions, even if the method used was public humiliation. Right. It appears to be part of this special counsels broader look into any possible obstruction here. We have the firing of comey and then this endless stream of taunts, perhaps threats, sort of pushing sessions to resign, if not be fired. I think the question now for us is, is this time any different . Will the president wake up tomorrow and tweet some more nasty things about Jeff Sessions and then we just keep going . Or will he actually one of these days go through with it and fire him . I think everyone in the white house would push hard against that move. Of course, that doesnt mean the president wont do it. But the prospect of that i think is horrifying to a lot of the folks in the white house who realize how many of this white houses problems stem from the jim comey firing. This would be that all over again and more. Matthew, can you ever remember an instance of this kind of doublereverse public trolling that this dinner tonight represents . No its pretty remarkable. The Justice Department in their statement to axios said that this was a preplanned dinner, but certainly the symbolism there of sessions and rosenstein getting together is pretty remarkable. And im not sure the president s going to be too pleased with that. Raj, what about i know you have a worry about longterm damage to this institution. The department of justice, that has already started to pile up in your view. Thats right. Today were talking about the attorney general, tomorrow we may be talking about the outcome of the russia investigation. But the real longterm story is, how can we prevent, hopefully on a bipartisan basis, further erosion to the institutional credibility of the Justice Department and the fbi . It takes decades to build the foundation for that credibility. And just minutes to put cracks in it through a tweet or otherings. It was sessions former brother, republican senator from alabama shelby, who said today, i wouldnt be anybodys whipping boy, i wouldnt be belittled. So the president versus the attorney general continues. Gentlemen, thank you so much. Matthew nussbaum, raj day, well have you both back on. Coming up for us, something the president said today that may not be sitting well tonight with the nra when the 11th hour continues. The president today held a meeting about gun violence, and it was important to him that it was televised. In fact, the White House Briefing was canceled today, in part to ensure focus on this gun event. Somewhat unbelievably, the event was instantly overshadowed by word of the departure of hope hicks, the director of communications. But back to this other gathering. What todays event, this gathering of republican and democratic politicians, may have lacked in diversity, it made up for in terms of the hyperbole, the stunning statements that came out of it, most of them from the president who at times took positions on things like the seizure of guns that were to the left of liberals in the gun control debate. Take the firearms first. And then go to court. Because thats another system. Because a lot of times by the time you go to court, it takes so long to go to court, to get the due process procedures, i like taking the guns early. Take the guns first. Go through due process second. If you add concealed carry to this, youll never get it passed. Doesnt make sense that i have to wait until 21 to get a handgun but i can get this weapon at 18. I dont know. I was curious as to what you did in your bill. We didnt address it, mr. President. Look, i think you know why . Because youre afraid of the nra, right . The reason i had lunch with the nra on sunday, i called them, i said, youve got to come over, tell lows, weve got to do something. They do have great power, i agree. They have great power over you people. They have less power over me. I dont need what do i need . Here for morte tonight, charlie sykes, longtime conservative radio show host, author of how the right lost its mind, msnbc contributor. Charlie, after the nra regained consciousness and got up off the floor, how do you think they reacted to some of the things the president laid out there . Which has been pointed out tonight, he articulated much of the obama gun policy. Pointed o tonight he articulated much of the obama gun policy. Oh, he went to the left of barack obama. For years the nra was saying obama democrats are going to grab your guns. And here the president is saying im going to take the guns without due process. I think what theyre discovering is the danger of getting into bed with somebody ignorant of policy, devoid of nuance and fixed principles. They can hope this is going to be a replay of the immigration show where he talked about love and a couple of days later has a reality check and backs off. The idea of what he was talking about is something called the gun violence restraining order. Something that i think that liberals and conservatives can get behind, which basically its kind of a red flag law where it somebody believes somebody might pose a threat, you go to a judge and say, hey, this person may not be mentally ill but we think they ought to remove their guns at least temporarily. But but that involves a court action, it involves due process and i think a lot of republicans, a lot of gun rights activists are shaking their heads and going did you possibly just destroy that possibility of a compromise with your comments about grabbing the guns without due process . Three things. Where was the leadership, where were the speaker and mcconnell . Number two, you point out the nra has fund raised over some version of the phrase theyre coming for your guns and three, the president said theres no bigger supporter of the Second Amendment amendment and what about the fourth, when you enter for seizure without due process . I think theyre probably going to remind him of that. In terms of donald trump going against the base, the nra has really been the beating heart of much of this trump base. I like the fact, of course, that you are creating some distance but i think youre going to see in the next 24 hours that the president is not going to be getting a lot of support from other Congressional Republicans who really do understand the power and depth of the nra clout in congress. I think were going to see a replay of what happened with that immigration dog and pony show. One of the great things about working here is sometimes we get to watch you watch these events before you come on the air. You should get some stills for york next book. Always a friend of the broadcast, thank you so much for making time for us tonight, charlie. And coming up for us, the president insisted today hes not into popularity. When we come back, well show you what got our attention about that. Nick was born to move. 3 toddlers wont stop him. And neither will lower back pain. Because at a dr. Scholls kiosk he got a recommendation for our custom fit orthotic to relieve his foot, knee, or lower back pain, from being on his feet. Dr. Scholls. Born to move. But prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered. In jellyfish. In clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. The name to remember. But some of us make somethinge make sommuch more. Dinner. Mom would be proud. With blue apron, any night is a chance to see what cooking can do. Ythen you turn 40 ande everything goes. Tell me about it. You know, its made me think, im closer to my retirement days than i am my college days. Hm. Im thinking. Will i have enough . Should i change something . Well, youre asking the right questions. I just want to know, am i gonna be okay . I know people who specialize in am i going to be okay. I like that. You may need glasses though. Yeah. Schedule a complimentary goal Planning Session today with td ameritrade. If you spit blood you may have gum problems,s and could be on the journey to much worse. Try parodontax toothpaste. Its clinically proven to remove plaque, the main cause of bleeding gums. For healthy gums and strong teeth. Leave bleeding gums behind with parodontax toothpaste. I dont care whos endorsing you or not endorsinendorsing. Youre going to be more popular if thats what youre into. Im not into popularity. Im into getting something done thats good. That very thing we just heard right there, the president at the meeting on gun violence insisting today hes not into popularity, but even a brief, cursory onceover search of our archives would indicate this president is in fact quite fond of popularity. I get by far the largest crowds. Im doing very, very well, record setting numbers. Every time i go we have massive crowds like this. Whatever were doing, were doing something right because we had i believe the largest bump in the history of conventions. The nielsen ratings just came out. These arent polls. These are for television, much more important than polls. We we beat her by millions on television. Today i had two stories. I guess they use me to sell newspapers. They do me. Im on all the time. I do get better ratings than her. I came in first in a landslide. Cnn is disgusting. Their ratings are going down big time because i refuse to be interviewed. I have the most loyal people in the world, i can stand in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot somebody and they would still love me. Its incredible. They dont have great seats but tomorrow theyll be famous, okay . We won so big in ohio and we won so big in iowa. I did two and three speeches a day like this. Big crowds. This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration period, both in person and around the globe. I do get good ratings, you have to admit. What a crowd. A lot of people in here, a lot of people pouring in right now, if you can get them in. Whatever you can do, fire marshall. President donald trump on the various measurements of popularity out there. Before we go tonight, we have some reminders for you, especially for our time shifting viewers. You can watch us any time you please by downloading the msnbc app on your phone. If youre on the move, you can listen live each night on siriusxm satellite radio. Were also available as a podcast. What im trying to say is there is really no reason you would ever have to miss a single broadcast of the 11th hour. And with that, that is our broadcast for a wednesday night. Thank you so much for being with us. Good night from msnbc news he headquarters here in new york. Who knows whats going to happen this hour. We are used to this part earn where if its a day that ends in why, its a day that massive new breaks as we were going to air. We did have a whole show planned, ready to go tonight. Walmart Just Announced it not going to sell guns to people under the age of 21 the president made a bunch of startling comments on camera today about gun safety today, totally out of keeping with all his previous remarks on this subject. Therefore and for some other reasons, nobody thinks he really meant what he said. So theres chaos around those remarks themselves. Then the white house Communications Director, hope hicks, suddenly resigned today without wa