Transcripts For MSNBCW Symone 20240703

Trials in georgia. For Federal Court, its a no go. As we wait to see if donald trump moves his case as well. Were going to see Meadows Decision, what it might mean for the president s future if he makes the same request. Plus, a georgia judge says hes skeptical of fani willis. Plans to put all of that including Donald Trump On Trial next month. I believe, and i will tell you why i think that she knows exactly what shes doing. Im simone, and i have something to say. We start today with the devastation in morocco, where a powerful earthquake hit late on friday night. At the center of the 6. 8 magnitude earthquake, about 36 miles east of marrakech in moroccan highlands, high at less mountain range. It claimed more than 1300 lives, and that number is expected to grow. The scope of the damage is unknown as crews are working to rescue any survivors trapped beneath the rubble. Heres nbc news 1400 front matt bradley with more. That frenzied Rescue Effort is underway as the death toll and injury toll increases. Its already skyhigh. We have heard in the last couple of hours, the death toll has now received 1000. The injuries have now exceeded 1200. Those numbers are likely to increase in the coming hours and days as Rescue Workers actually take bodies out of the wreckage. Thats what theyre working on right now. You see a lot of destruction in the region, the high atlas mountains. The epicenter was about 50 miles away from the historic city of marrakech. And now we are seeing those workers struggling to get into the mountains, into some of those more remote villages, which are constructed by even more rudimentary materials, adobe, blacks and reinforced concrete. Is the kind of thing that really just is not up to snuff when it comes to tremors of this size. There has already been a lot of damage in the more urban areas. This historic city of merricks beloved. Medina, the old city, a lot of winding alleyways. Seeing plenty of destruction so far, and most of it is intact. A lot of Historic Buildings have been battling badly damaged. But the Rescue Effort is working, and you seeing the military and local authorities trying to reach some of these areas, trying to get to some of those destroyed buildings to take people out, but in the coming days and weeks, were probably going to see that death toll increasing. I am here in turkey right now, where there was an earthquake just back in february. We saw amazing sites and i was covering this of people being removed out of the wreckage after being five, six, seven days. It is the kind of hope a lot of Rescue Workers in morocco are holding out as they were called lifelong, tirelessly to, try to recover the survivors. Nbcs news Foreign Correspondent matt bradley, thank you. Were going to continue to follow this story. We will bring you any updates as they happen. Now, for an update on legal news surrounding donald trump. The saying is typically that all politics is local. Apparently, it is saying, it holds true for folks who can dodge legal ramifications by getting their case tried in a Federal Court versus state court. A major blow to former Chief Of Staff to trump, mark meadows, a judge has denied his request to move Georgia Election charges to Federal Court. Judge steve jones wrote, in parts, the Court Concludes that meadows has not shown that the actions that trigger the states prosecution related to his federal office. Meadows has filed a notice of appeal to the 11th circuit. Meanwhile, the charges careful to note this ruling would not impact the four other codefendants with pending removal bids. That former President Trump has also notified the court he may file to remove his case as well. He has until the end of this month to decide. This week, we also got a little bit more insight into how the trial will proceed. Judge scott mcafee expressed concern about the logistics of trying all codefendants together and he gave a statement to state to submit their argument for trying all 19 at once. Starting october 23rd. That is when Kenneth Chesebro and Sidney Powell will be tried together, despite their lawyers best efforts to sever the case. Powell has moved to sever their trial from the other codefendants immediately and chesebro has filed to dismiss the r. I. C. O. Charge against him. On one state, prosecutors set that trying the codefendants together would be more efficient in the long run. We will contend that a trial of these 19 codefendants will take four months. And that does not include Jury Selection. There are in excess of 150 witnesses the state intends to call. For months not including Jury Selection is a very important point there. I would like to note that Jury Selection for the Fulton County Racketeering Case against rapper young thug is in its seventh month. Meanwhile, according to a newly unsealed report, the Georgia Special grand jury investigating 2020 Election Interference actually recommended charges for 39 people, 21 or ultimately not indicted. Including the current lieutenant government of georgia, for jones, trump Alice Michael flynn emperors epstein, Former Georgia Senators, Kelly Loeffler and david perdue, and current sitting South Carolina senator, Lindsey Graham. Listen to how Lindsey Graham reacted to the news. At the end of the day, nothing happens. What i did was consistent with my job as being a United States senator. Chairman of the judiciary committee. But it was just not me. Three United States senators were opening up pandoras box, and to make the system of this country is getting off the rails. And we have to be careful not to use the legal system as a political tool. Again, senator graham was not charged. I want to welcome my panelists, former federal prosecutor shan wu, his fear, and Shana Mccaffrey is awful it with us. Politics reporter for the atlanta journalconstitution. And a very well decorated journalist, i might. That sham, i actually want to start with you. I want to talk about this mark Meadows Decision from the judge. The judge has said it is not going to affect any other codefendants and their removal. But if they are all making the same argument that mark meadows is making, one could assume the judge everyone is going to eye everyones request. Right . You. Could factually, maybe a little bit different but certainly, this was a test run problem, for but legal theory, and they got snubbed on. It interestingly to me, meadows took this huge chance of subjecting himself to life testimony, very rare for a codefendant. , so this judge has a very strong factual record for why he concluded that the law for removal would not apply to meadows. So the difference for the other folks are slightly different facts. They have different jobs, different things, and of course, leading up to trumps ultimate argument. Would the other, lets just say donald trump. If he decides to you know go forward with his removal bid, would he have to sit for in court . Just like mark meadows to . He doesnt have to because he still has a Fence Amendment right not to testify. His lawyers can make the arguments, and i think meadows really put it out there to see if he is point about being a Chief Of Staff admitting that he was involved politically, which violates factchecked, all he is still trying to paint the picture that in his world, theres this federal nexus, there is something federalish about what they are doing. So, trump can use some of that record for his own lawyers arguments. Again, trump may talk a picture about wanting to testify but from a lawyer standpoint, he would not want that. I mean, when i worked at the white house, and never dawned on me that i could, you, know do crimes and be protected by because i worked at the white house. Its crazy. Shannon. I want to talk about the Special Grand Jury report. As i was coming through it, a lot of things stood out to me namely the over 30 recommendations. What stood up . To you the sheer number was or really surprised us. We expected there would be some things that the Special Grand Jury recommended that didnt make it into the indictment. But it ended up being there or 19 indicted and 39 named, so, you had 20 people there at the Special Grand Jury looked at and race questions about. So it goes to a lot of complaints that fani willis was sort of spreading her face to wide. It looks like she could have gone even wider. Of course, from her perspective, there is a different burden of proof. You know, you have a much lower burden of proof to indict someone versus what you would need if you are going to, you, know try them in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt. But for us, it was just fascinating to see david perdue and Kelly Loeffler, you, know the two Former Georgia Senators and there, Lindsey Graham, a Senate Sitting u. S. Senator, i whos who of politics in georgia in the surrounding region. It truly was so many names listed here. Shannon, you are talking to folks down there in the state house. In the d. A. s office, other folks in politics across the state. After this Special Grand Jury report dropped, what was the tone and tenor of conversations specifically within the Republican Party apparatus in georgia. I think there were some felt a little bit of relief they werent in for the final report. There was one State Lawmaker in there who didnt end up in the final indictment and another one who did. You know, so, you have to race the question of why one and not the other. You know, i think there is also a bit of defiance, too. You know, there is this feeling that has been there but its only kind of ramping up as we get further into this that this political. That fani willis is only doing this for political gain. So, you know, the hotter it gets, the more you see the level of defiance rise among some of the republicans. There is money for each other. They are standing up for each other it will remain to be seen how well they do once they finally get into court. You know, schanda, artemis, case judge mcafee, he is us i noted earlier, expressed some skepticism about the reality of trying to try all 19 codefendants at one time. Do you scare that skepticism . I. Dont when i do a federal judge in texas, we have a main trial and had about that many defendants. Logistics are tough. The court will be crowded. I think perhaps, the skepticism goes less to the logistics, which could be managed, and more to some of the legal theories. Were going to ask motions to remove. There are reasons why they are separate. Thats right. With 19 defense lawyers, 19 defendants, theres going to be a lot more issues but i think it is doable. Shannon, why do you think so many folks are lots of conversation about questioning the strategy of District Attorney won. Why do you think folks down there in georgia say she is battletested, r. I. C. O. Is what she does. She is if there is an expert in bringing recount cases, fani willis is one of them. Why do you think folks are so skeptical . I think folks are skeptical because you look at the other trials going on. The trials we mentioned earlier and you know thats taken how many months and you dont have a jury . A juror, i should say. A simple juror. So, there is some skepticism based on that. But you know as you mentioned, fani willis has been clear from the getgo that she likes r. I. C. O. She has said it is really appropriate in this case because it shows the totality of this alleged scheme. She is saying you have to take all these acts together. It is not one act on its own. It is not one person on their own, it is this whole, you know, web of activities that is going on and that is what, you know, we really need to look at, not one individual. You know, fan, i guess my last question is about the codefendants. There was another case that fani willis tried notably about teachers in georgia, again, a Racketeering Case. 13, people, teachers, i think ended up being indicted and charged him being held accountable. There are more folks but they got plea deals. Do you foresee plea deals happening here . If youre a prosecutor in that office, would you be trying to get folks, codefendants to do and say . Youre always looking to get that confirmation and certainly, whittle down the number of people in the courtroom. Prosecutors dont indict cases counting on the fact that later between the cooperation, you are ready to go from day one and she certainly is. She has been teeing this up very carefully. They dont need people to flipping cooperate to be prosecuted. If it happens at the stage, thats great. Its late in the day for those folks. All right, thats why shannon is the expert. Cant do, shannons mccaffrey, thank you both very, very. Much you are not leaving,. Though we have a lot more to talk about, a little bit later. Up next, fani williss investigation is the most wideranging of all of trumps legal troubles. So, why are so many, including the judge, so skeptical of her legal strategy . Coming up, unbalanced, all tell you why. You why. ella fashion moves fast. Setting trends is our business. We need to scale with customer demand. 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Willis gave a sharper tort to house ujiri chaired, jim jordan, after he demanded she turned all over all documents related to her Election Interference case against donald trump in the 18 people indicted by a grand jury in georgia last month. Willis wrote quote, no Job Description as a legislator is not include criminal law enforcement. , nor does include supervising a specific clinical trial. Because you believe that doing so will promote your partisan political objective. She goes on the set your letter makes clear that you like a basic understanding of the law, its practice and the ethical obligations of attorneys generally and prosecutors specifically. Well, this comes after judge scott mcafee, who is presiding over the georgia case said that heat was quote, a very skeptical of fani williss plan to put all 19 defendants on trial next month. It seems to be judged mcafee and congressman jim jordan and other critics have forgotten who d. A. Willis is, and what exactly she has accomplished in her time in office. So, allow me a moment to remind folks of her track record. Were almost 20 years in a prosecutor, fani willis has led more than 100 jury trials. She is an expert in r. I. C. O. Cases and then, forget he prosecuted one of georgias largest criminal cases involving a Cheating Scandal and the Atlanta Public School system. In fact, since becoming chief prosecutor, williss office is, wilsons conviction right for the d. A. s office has stood close to 90 . The Conviction Rights matter, because prosecutors only bring cases they believe that they can win. So, they said. So, look. Why are folks and saying that fani willis is in over her head or she is biting off more than she can to . And why the special counsel jack smith escape any scrutiny for his strategy . He also is bringing a case against the former president. He seemed to avoid the same level of scrutiny. Many folks just took jack smith at his word. That he knew what he was doing. The reality is fani willis is not new to this. Some say she is true to this. So, where is the confidence and the respect that she has earned . Well, it may never come, but one thing i am sure ofs District Attorney fani willis in Fulton County . I think she knows what she is doing up next, accountability in action, the former leader of the proud boys gets hard times for his role on january six. Now, to a public and president ial candidates claim he is a victim of a two tiered justice system. Back at the numbers that say otherwise. Thats when we come back. Thats when we come back thats when we come back to make my home smell amazing. On my bed. My couch. My jacket or jeans. In between washes. Even shoes. Febreze doesnt cover up odors with scent, but fights them and freshens over one thousand uses. Febreze fabric refresher. Over is this yours . Ses. You ready . Suprise i dont think you can clear this. I got this. Its yours now. 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Dayquil honey, the daytime, coughing, aching, stuffy head, fever, honeylicious, power through your day, medicine. Heres why you should switch fro power through your day, to duckduckgo on all your Devie Duckduckgo comes with a builtin search eg but it doesnt spy on your seac and our browser blocks creepy ads that follow you around fro and other companies. I am glad to see that the and its free. Download duckduk American People and our system of democracy and rule of law are Holding People accountable. Who attempt to up and the democratic process. Deco Vice President harris, we are seeing accountability in action in the wake of january six. This week, the former head of the farright proud boys or sentence for his role in the assault of our democracy. Enrique tarrio, he received 22 years in federal prison. This is the longest january 6th sentence we have seen yet. Terry it was found guilty of what is called Seditious Conspiracy in may. So this conspiracy alone carries a maximum sentence of 20 years. The judge also employed terrorism sentencing enhancements. But, now youve got some republican president ial candidates that are saying this is an example of a two tiered justice system. Ron desantis and the Vivek Brava Sami said the sentences are excessive, compared to what black lives matter protesters and antifa members have received. Well, first, let me say the groups are not comparable, but that that tells me that on average, everyone has received the same level of sentencing except those convicted of Seditious Conspiracy. Shampoos back with me and he will tell us why. Chamois, why is Seditious Conspiracy, why does it carry more weight, more gravity, if you will . Because not to overstate this, it is attacking the fabric of the democracy. It is trying to overthrow the government that is the charge. That harkens back to the only civil war this country has ever had. So, from a big picture, that standpoint, theres nothing more serious than that, trying to oppose the government itself. That is a serious. And that makes a plan for the. People in this case, the Department Of Justice actually asked for, i think, more than 33 years rosario. The judge said he didnt see much remorse from enrique tarrio. But he ended up landing on 22 years. How do you think that the judge got there . Its really interesting because the judge has said that the enhancement for domestic terrorism applies, meaning that theriot probably has met that, but he didnt want to fully use that enhancement and go with the dojs request for that. And you know, he is a lifetime. Appointee he that do that tough on Crime Campaign in the future so we can use discretion that way. Why did he use discretion . I think its actually reflective of the larger attitude in our country where we still think of terrorism as being an attack from abroad. Something that thats happened. We have really come around to the fact that there is a terrible threat on the domestic front and a great threat that may come from within rather than without. I think you see that reflected. The judge is thinking these are not people who then a massive bomb attack, chemical attack, and they still have that aspect to it, i think. Do you think then sentence such as this and there are other members who have been sentenced, but again, 22 years is the longest january 6th sentence that we have seen yet. Again. Still more folks to be worked through the system. Do you think these sentences deterrence for this kind of behavior, there are folks out there who say this accountability is very important to keep this from happening again . Absolutely. I dont mean to minimize 22 years. Thats a healthy sense. Its its a long time. Yeah. I think other people, i think weve already seen that deterrence. With all of the you know, blob of that trump has been saying about the trump being indicted numerous times. People talk about, its dangerous. Youre not seeing the kind of big crowd violence. Its already serving that the tyrants. People have seen this is not just getting on the internet, getting dressed up in may weekend here. This has real consequences, you take it to the point of actually attacking people. Used to be a federal prosecutor here in, washington d. C. I wonder if you could you know, in our last moments, illuminate for me how the prosecutors who are working on these cases potentially arent feeling. You know, we are talk about the issues of our democracy. This is heavy, weighty stuff. That has been again, january 6th was 2021. Right . This is 2023. Were on our way to 2020. For its been a long time coming. How are the tone and tenor of the prosecutors . I think that they are really, as they have to, be focused on getting the job done one step at a time. You cant let this sort of weightiness of the crime make you tense or get nervous or have anxiety. Theres so much to. Do execution of people to prosecute, and theyve been marching for it. I think critical of the doj. I think i started too late they got started way too late. The january six committee. There we go. I totally agree with that. Thats not to take away from the fact that they have done a lot of this work in prosecuting these violent people that we did these things. So i think they are focusing on the task at hand. Taking these cases apart is piece by spiess, and they know they gotta get it right. I gotta get it right. Thanks, jen, for coming back and breaking us down. Appreciate you. Now that it is clear that republicans abortion policies could cost them in 2024, the party is looking for a rebrands. But will it take a new coat of paint to fix their troubles . Dont worry, yall. My Political Panel will join me next to weigh in. Dont you go anywhere. 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I just cleaned those. Try dawn platinum. It removes 99 of grease and food residue. Thats why dawn is trusted to save wildlife affected by oil. Dawn platinum cleans to the squeak. When President Biden says the battle for the soul of the nation, when he says our country is in a battle for the soul of the nation, its not hyperbole. It is just not rhetoric. I think is the truth. Anti Democratic Forces are hard at work in this country. We all Saw Pro Trump extremists starting the capital. But threats to democracy dont just come in the form of who attempts. More often than not, democracies are chipped away, little by little, gradually shifting the norms until that democracy is no longer recognizable. A Political Panel joins me now to discuss. Keith blinken is a former Clinton White house aide and the author of a race against time, the politics of a darkening america. And mike madrid is here, he is the cofounder of the lincoln project, and cohost of the latino votes podcast. Mike its coming getting shot together, i could see it on my screen. So keith, this conversation about democracy. I think, sometimes feels very lofty for people. I take a look at wisconsin, where you have a new state Supreme Court justice, janet ponce with, and her election really shifted the courts. Now, for the first time in years, the majority on the court is a democratic majority, or a left leaning majority and she is now being threatened with impeachment. She hasnt even heard a case yet weve got conservative group saying she shouldnt rule on redistricting cases because that could threaten the republicans Super Majority in that wisconsin State Legislature. And the reasoning for this is because she received donations from the Democratic Party during her campaign. But every single justice has said one, so on the Supreme Court in including republican justices who have saved the nation for political parties. Do you think people understand that you know, attempts such as what is happening in wisconsin with justice producer whats, this is antidemocracy. These are antidemocracy forces at work. Hi, simone. Im not sure that people do fully understand the risks and challenges that we face because unfortunately, its become sadly normalized in the past few years in the trump era. We see not only whats happening in wisconsin where they are trying to impeach her, but also in georgia, they are trying to take away the rights of fani willis to prosecute donald trump. We see this in florida, where ron desantis is trying to strip away the rights of local prosecutors and remove local School Board Members and teachers. We see this in texas, where greg abbott, and launching a authoritarian campaign against local control in the city of houston. It is astounding how much of a threat to democracy is under right now, and its a shocking fact that americans have become almost numb to this because donald trump has weakened the guardrails to the part where we just expect this to happen. We expect republicans to assault democracy, and we expect this fight to be going on as though it is normal. But i have been involved in politics in prudential politics and federal politics for 40 years, ive never seen a time like this in my entire life simone. My entire political career. So, i think we are at a crossroads. And it is imperative that the American People understand. The stakes here. You know, mike, as keith was talking, and i heard my colleague, nicole wallace, talk about this earlier this week, that youve got Chris Christie and Asa Hutchison and the number of other republicans, right . Liz cheney, who came out forcefully against Donald Trumps attempts to subvert our, you know, our elections, attempts to overthrow democracy and they have been very strong on that, but you do not hear republicans writ large across the country coming out against these other things that are antiDemocratic Forces at work that he just mentioned. So, well i think we should give credit to folks like Chris Christie, who are speaking truth about donald trump on the conventional endless cheney, what about these other pieces . Donald trump could go away tomorrow and these other things will still be happening. Simone, thanks for having me on. Let me just say that is a great question and it really push viewers to look at this a little bit differently. Weve got to stop asking these bigger pictures as to why this is happening and just acknowledge the fact that it is happening. We need to engage and pour that energy into this forceful fight to preserve and protect our democracy and this union, as keith absolutely pointed out. It is under threat in an unprecedented way. But recognize we are not going to persuade 90 of these folks. We need to stop trying. What we need to do is start preserving and protecting by playing a better offense instead of always being on the defense. Unfortunately, youve got situations like wisconsin, where this justice is probably going to be impeached. You know what . That justice won by a pretty significant margin in a Battleground State like wisconsin. If they were going to impeach, or run her again, and lets win by a bigger margin. Every time these battles to come up, especially in swing states, you are seeing the forces of good beating the forces of evil. We have got to stop being a frayed of that and start marching offensively. We are winning in. Georgia were winning in arizona. We are winning in wisconsin. Yes, it is uncomfortable. Yes, its unfortunate, thats where were at in american history. Its time to rally the forces forward and not backwards. You know, this makes me think about just the abortion and how abortion was on the ballot in 2022 after the dobbs decision, and i definitely think abortion its on the ballot and will be a Decision Maker in 2024. I think in 2024, i think that republicans across the country, at least in the senate, also realize that because weve got reporting that republicans are considering a shift away from the turned pro life in order to prevent further losses in this post roe electoral landscape. Keith, i dont really know if just changing the phrase is going to be enough here. Because abortion is banned in 15 states and 11 of those states, there are no exceptions for rape and incest. So in South Carolina specifically when the Supreme Court overturned previous decision and decided to ban abortion, the majority opinion, the Supreme Court justice wrote this thus infringe on the privacy of rights of women and bodily autonomy, but the life of the baby is more important. I think this is about the politics of white women, because the majority of white women voted for trump trump in his election, and that majority of white women are concerned about that lack of reproductive rights. As a result of the republican policies. So, the gop has now become the dog that, whats the expression . That got the car or Something Like . That now they dont know what to do with the fact that theyve won the battle, and they have lost the political discourse. Mike, people are living with the implications of the rhetoric. The debate used to be about weeks, okay . Are we talking about 15 weeks . Six weeks . Thats not the debate anymore. The debate is now about freedom. Do you believe that you should be able to make the decisions about your own life, or do you think that elected officials and state houses or congress should be making your personal Health Care Decisions for you . Making these decisions for themselves. The vast majority of voters agree with that. A significant amount of college aged kids, republican women, believe that is why democrats did so well in the midterms. And its why they are in a strong position in 2024. Dont be afraid. Dont get off of that message. Drive, drive, drives it forward, and you will see the continued successes of people pushing for greater freedoms and not less. I am very concerned about the state of our democracy. I absolutely believe this is an inflection, point and this is an important conversation. We are going to keep having it on this show. Keith blinken, mike madrid, thank you both. Good to see you all. Up next, folks, a panel of federal judges has told Alabama State legislators for the second time that alabamas congressional math needs to be redrawn. It is just one state or republicans are trying to undermine democracy. Keith just talked about it. This time, by the Michigan Power of black voters. Well get into, it next. T into, it next. But with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. For one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. One pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. Mom i got the job yeah, i feel like its all coming together. Introducing the allnew 2024 chevy trax. With all the tech. Here we go. Were going home monty. And all the room. For all of lifes firsts. Your first new car is here. The allnew chevy trax starting under 22,000. [its the final game, folks. This one wins the series. ] struck out with the cheap seats . Important things arent worth compromising. 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There are 20 ongoing section two cases across the nation. That is, according to democracy docket. Their outcomes could help reverse 150year practice of intentionally diluting black voting power across the south. And places another. With look at the back. As a surprise ruling earlier this year, the Supreme Court upheld section two in the case of allen the mulligan. And ordered alabama to redraw its congressional maps. Of the Alabama State legislator offered to the states ruling, failing to add a second majority black district. This week, a three church panel, once, again blocked that map, ordering it to be redrawn. This time, by a special master. A notice of appeal has set to be filed with the Supreme Court. Folks, what is happening in alabama . There is an almost identical case in louisiana. There is a similar case in georgia. There is a similar case in florida. I mean, we could put that map back up on the screen for you all. The section two challenges across the country. If the little the litigators are victorious, this has the ability to change the map, to change representation, and frankly, change who controls congress. In 2024. This is all happening right now, ground zero is alabama, and so, we wanted to bring in someone who knows a little bit about what is going down in the state house. Joining me now to discuss is Democratic State representative, wanda lyn prevail. First off, representative, thank you so much for being here. So, talk to me about this map that was just struck down. How much input did you and your democratic colleagues have been redrawing these maps . Absolutely none. You know, when i think about the Republican Party and what happens, simone, just a few weeks ago during a special session, and i know you played on your show, holding up a sign that said zero plus zero equals a net result special session. It should have been a session in which the democrats and republicans, my colleagues, worked together across party lines to follow a court order. Not only a court order, but the Supreme Court of the United States. And we ultimately had no voice in the decision. There were several planned to sign, im assuming, meetings Behind Closed Doors that we were not privy to and ultimately, we were given a map, first day of the session, to vote on, which was set that time, the regal map and, then ultimately, the republicans ran over us and it was decided it would submit the livingston map. So, my guess representative, why do you think that republicans in the State Legislature are so against just doggedly committed to bucking a Supreme Court and ignoring them . You cant ignore a Supreme Court ruling. But they banded together in the day anyway. Why . Why are lisa resistant . I have never seen, and i am a practicing attorney. But to have the level of attorneys, the solicitor general, the Attorney General to defiantly disobey, in other words, i said it on that bait floor to i think we have lost representative to vance. We will get her back. I guess, before we end this segment, i want to bring in and attorney. Okay . Applicant is just, she is amazing. About conflict successfully argued the alabama case for the Supreme Court. And she is leading the section two charge in georgia, texas, florida, and other states. Isaih she is amazing because you are a very busy lady, and he found some time to come chat with us. Just break this down for us. You heard what the representative was saying about just the resistance in the State Legislature from attorneys, from folks who, at the highest levels in alabama, are you seeing the same resistance in some of the other cases but you bring in Bachelor States . Absolutely. First of, all thank you, simone, for having me on. Its great to be here. Yes, we have been astounded to see the level of Open Defiance of the Trial Court Orders and the u. S. Supreme court orders in alabama. And i think what were seeing in other states is you know, im here in atlanta this week. Litigating a section two case against the georgia congressional map. As you mentioned, we have cases going on in louisiana and florida, and the ability, or the willingness to State Defendants to openly defy with the court has said and refused to take it at its word, really is astounding and im hopeful it will not hold up. Can we just talk about like, how complicated it is to bring a section to challenge. Its not easy, right . Theres lots of things you have to gather to prove the case that there is a section two violation here to even go forward to a judge will look at. What are some of the things that in georgia, and alabama, and louisiana, in texas, in florida, that your team had to pull together to get to this point . Absolutely. Section two challenges already impose a very high bar for plaintiffs. You have to bring in a kind of statistical and electoral Expert Evidence to show that the minority population, here, were talking about black voters in these states, its large enough, its geographically compact enough, to form a majority of a new district. But that is just the beginning. You have to show racially polarized voting consistently. That white preferred candidates will defeat black preferred candidates without these majority minority districts. And then, once you have clear those hurdles, you have to come over a number of other parties that really show that race infuses the history, the culture, the politics, socioeconomic status, and, really almost every aspect of these jurisdictions. It is already a high bar under the law, as it stands. And the State Defendants have, really, have nothing to argue when it comes to that. The Legal Standard as it is. Their main effort has been to change the law or try to get the Supreme Court to change the law. And fortunately, they have felt so far. We are hopeful that despite their continued efforts, to you know, try another run at the courts, that they will not be successful. We will finally get relief for black voters in the states. You know, you said you are still in georgia and again, you did argue for defendants regarding georgias congressional maps. That cases beat raffensperger. I think a lot of people are familiar with raffensperger. Defendants council actually said the maps werent drawn on the basis of race. But rather, the basis of partisanship. Which is legal. What is your response to that argument . We are representing the plate since and the pendergrass case, and the states making the same argument we see in alabama and elsewhere, which is its not that the states are doing these maps based on race, or discriminating against black voters, they are really trying to do is discriminate against democrats. I think that just fundamentally misunderstands the nature of our claim and Voting Rights act. You Voting Rights act, section two, Legal Standard is a result based test. That basically says just because it is politically expedient for you to dilute the vote of black voters, does not make it lawful. It was politically expedient in the 60s. It was politically expedient in the 80s and 90s, when the courts held these states to task on the Voting Rights act to make them provide opportunities and to you, now hold them to account when they tried to suppress the black vote. And the fact that it remains politically expedient for these State Defendants, republican state officials, to dilute black voters, thats not to make it okay or make it lawful. I agree with you, of ocala, and litigations long hard work, and its one of the things that has continued to protect civil rights and freedoms in this country. Thank you for your work, and we will be chatting again soon. Well be right back. Well be right back. Shelves. Shelves that know what taste buds want. Shelves smart enough to see, sense, react, restock. So Caramel Swirl is always there for the taking. From big cities, to small towns, and on main streets across the us, youll find pnc bank. Helping businesses both large and small, communities and the people who live and work there grow and thrive. Were proud to call these places home too. Theyre where we put down roots, and where together, we work to help move everyones financial goals forward. Pnc bank. Looking for a smarter way to mop . 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Beyonce saying to diana ross on her birthday in 2019. Beyonce played a fictional version of diana ross in the Movie Dream Girls in 2006. Lionel ritchie saw this video and said, he isnt nothing diana ross to get onstage with him on years, and she would not. Come, so goes to show the power of beyonce. Thanks so much for watching symone on this saturday, everyone. Im Simone Sanders townsend, you can catch me right here. Weekends on msnbc at four pm eastern. At anytime over on peacock, we have new episodes on the msnbc hub every monday. Dont you go anywhere because politicsnation with the great Reverend Al Sharpton starts right now. Rev, you were actually just in florida to deliver the eulogy for one of the victims of last months racist shooting in jacksonville. Its just so terrible. Can you tell us a little bit about how people are feeling . People are outraged and three people were killed two weeks ago today. Just for being black. A White Supremacist row eight manifesto, and i want to get into on the show. Represents the family of andrew luck carl, who family reached 52 year old of mother of three, just killed driving and uber, from a passenger to the store, and he killed her. He shot her 11 times, two in the face. Couldnt even open the casket. Im going to talk about that. Then. Crumbling to talk about