0 [ booing ] >> and a special shoutout to you, speaker boehner. it takes genuine political cowardice to let the tea party run this country into the ground. >> thank you. >> republicans are playing a dangerous, demented game. threatening to shut down the government and maybe even send the nation into default. in the name of killing health care law that will save lives. the bill that republicans pass today has no chance of passing the senate. none. zero. but time is running out. the government shuts down in ten days. this isn't a game. it's people's lives. joining me now is congressman jim moran, democrat from virginia. and dana milbank of "the washington post." thank you both for being here. >> sure. >> congressman, how do you explain what the house republicans did today? >> well, i think they're assuming that fox news and, you know, rush and his gang are going to explain this. because they live in their own eco-chamber. they are probably assuming, too, that none of their constituents are watching your show or ed's or whatever. and they're hoping they get away with this. i think they know that this is irresponsible, that it's not on the level. they know they can't repeal obama care. they know that they can't default on our debt ceiling. they know where this is headed, but they think they can get away with being irresponsible. so as to appease constituents who is misinformed largely in some cases simply ignorant or biased with regard to the president's agenda. and somehow we've got to find a majority of responsible minds in the house and senate to move forward. you know, this is the worst the congress has ever been. and this is a reflection of how bad it can get. just when you think it can't get worse, it does. and it did again today. >> you're right, congressman. and dana, a new poll shows little support for the gop's shutdown strategy. just 27% say they oppose the health law and support republican shutdown efforts. >> yeah. reverend, the only disagreement i would have with what the congressman just said is i think he may be giving the republicans too much credit there to suggest there is some cogent thought going on here. that there is some purpose to all this. because it does seem as if nobody's in charge here and they don't really have an end game. they don't really know where they're going with this. there's a dispute among republicans within the house, between republicans in the senate, and in the house contradicting each other. it's not just the shutdown. within weeks after that, they're also threatening to put the united states into default over this and other issues. i don't think it's so much a deliberate plan as is a primal screen. you have a lot of people in that party in safe republican district who is really don't like the president. and this is their way of protesting. >> congressman, we have not only seen the attacks on the president, but dana's right. they're fighting among themselves. we saw new attacks from house republicans who went after a fellow republican in the senate. ted cruz. watch this. >> hopefully it'll be a major step in letting people know that ted cruz is a fraud and he'll no longer have any influence in the republican party. i hope people know he's bad for the party. >> you should have been on the floor in the cloak room. there was so much anger and frustration. we've been abused by these guys for so long. i see people calling them out for the hypocrisy of these conservatives who know how to fight but will never get in the ring. >> congressman, this party seems to be in crisis internally. >> it does. and i can't take issue with dana. he's absolutely right. i look forward to reading his next column. when we walk in wednesday in the capitol, we're likely to see a sign that says due to circumstances beyond our control, the light at the end of the tunnel has been temporarily disconnected. i don't think they have any plan. i don't think they know where they're going. and maybe they'll figure it out over the next few days. but you're right, reverend al. and we've got this debt ceiling that is certainly as important right now as funding the government. and they don't have a plan for how to do so. >> you know, dana. when you look at what is effected if there is a government shutdown, we're talking about military pay, veterans benefits, unemployment benefits, new home and business loans. these are very serious things. it doesn't even impact the funding of the health care plan or obama care. but they're willing to sacrifice veterans, the unemployed, military personnel. i mean, this is nothing short of crazy. >> well, that's one of the ironies here is in fact they're going to hit all of these government programs. but obama care is going to continue on just as it did before. and in some ways, i think there are some on the left, my colleague at the post has made the case this could in fact strengthen obama care in the public eye because people will realize when there are the inevitable hiccups as they implement this, people are going to blame republicans because of all the things they've done to try to slow it from getting implemented in the first place. so again, we can dig and look under each rock and try to find a strategy here, but this isn't really about strategy. this is about protest. and as one congressman at the house republican said, the base has asked for this fight, we're going to give them this fight. >> but congressman, rush limbaugh, now, he's been responding to the fact that people like me have been saying this is the law. congress passed it. there was a huge debate about this in the presidential election. president won. the supreme court upheld it. here's how he responded to those of us that raised the point this is the law, we need to move forward. >> i can't wait. >> it's the law of the land, right? well, let's see. what else at one time was the law of the land? slavery. and there was even one time the supreme court upheld it. yeah, slavery used to be the law of the land. >> 30 million people will get health insurance, and he compares this to slavery being the law of the land. as tempted as i am, congressman, i'll let you respond. i won't even touch that one. >> no. i think that's just as well that you not. but you know, you have to wonder why they're getting so extreme, so far out on this. i think it's probably because they're so afraid it's going to work. that's why they're trying to stop it. they're deathly afraid that when it goes in, it's going to show that all of these scare tactics and so on, they were for naught. that it was in everyone's benefit. when it does become not just the law of the land but engrained in our culture that everyone is entitled to get decent health care. the children shouldn't suffer because their parents can't get affordable insurance, that they're going to realize this is what america is all about. and it's not what they want america to be all about. so, you know, we just have to get through this period. we had a similar period after medicare. you know, i think ultimately you're going to be proven wrong and rush will come up with another excuse for why he was so wrong. >> i'm out of time, but quickly, do you think congressman, there will be a shutdown or not? >> i don't think so. i don't think so. certainly not until november or december, then we have to fight obviously over the debt ceiling. and we're going to have even lower numbers as of january 15th. i doubt it will happen as of october 1st. >> congressman jim moran and dana milbank, thank you both for your time tonight. have a great weekend. >> you too, reverend. coming up, we are witnessing something new. political arsonists trying to derail our government. so how will it end? and the tea party rallied around defeating obama care. so now what? i'll talk live to a tea party leader. and you don't want to miss this. plus more on president obama like you rarely see him. on the road and unloading on house republicans. what do you think of all of this? e-mail me. friend or foe, i want to know. reply al is ahead. good job! still running in the morning? yeah. getting your vegetables every day? when i can. 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