Transcripts For MSNBCW MTP Daily 20190923

And how is this all playing on the campaign trail . As the new poll shows a new first choice for democrats in the first in the nation caucus state. And if its monday, its meet the press. Im katy tur in for chuck todd. We begin with the president followed by angry denials after seemingly confirming reports he asked a foreign power to dig up dirt on his potential opponent joe biden, he asked aides to deny the requests. He spoke to reporters at the ukraine about joe bidens quote, corruption, and he wouldnt give joe biden to ukraine if he wasnt, quote, rooting out corruption. A large part of the conversation i had was corruption, the corruption taking place. Largely the fact we dont want people like Vice President biden and his son contributing to the corruption already in the ukraine. What did you tell the ukrainian president about joe biden and his son . Youre going to see because what we are doing, we want honesty. Its very important to talk about corruption. If you dont talk about corruption, why would you give money to a country that you think is corrupt . One of the reasons the new president got elected is he was going to stop corruption. So its very important that on occasion you speak to somebody about corruption. Very important. And after the president confirmed talking to ukraine about biden came the denials about an explicit quid pro quo tied to foreign aid. Did you tell the ukrainian leader they would have the aid only if they investigated joe biden and his family . No, i didnt. I didnt do it. And i hope youll be able to see the call because i didnt do it. Everybodys looking for that call. And keep going the way youre going because when you see the call, youre going to be very surprised. When you see the call, if you see it, i hope you see it, frankly, you will find out i did not do that at all. I did not make a statement that you have to do this or im not going to give you a. I wouldnt do that. I wouldnt do that. Sir, you can authorize release of transcript, will you do that . I can do it very easily but i would rather not do it from the standpoint of all of the other conversations i have. It was a very nice call. I hope you get to see it, and i hope you get to see it soon. Democrat investigators want hard evidence and they want it now. This afternoon three House Committee chairs threatened to subpoena seblcretary of state me pompeo if he does not turn over documents critical to the ukraines wealth. And some are demanding to hear the audio of the president s call if it does exist. Speaker pelosi over the weekend threatened, quote, a whole new stage of the investigation if the administration does not hand over the complaint. And house intelligence chairman adam schiff announcing that democrats may have crossed the rubicon when it comes to impeachment. Most republicans have either been silent or theyre rather predictably backing the president and perhaps lost amidst this craziness is the fact that theres no i repeat no hard evidence that biden did anything wrong. Joining me is one of the reporters who helped break this story open, the Washington Post National Security correspondent jane harris and someone who knows her way around corruption issues, msnbc contributor and former u. S. Attorney, joyce vance, and with me on msnbc the Homeland Security secretary during the last major election scandal involving foreign interference and also the assistant u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york under, of all people, Rudy Giuliani. Shane, joyce and jay, welcome. Shane, you initially reported there was a promise attached to this phone call. What more are we hearing about that . You heard the president denying it. Right. I think were still trying to find out what all was said on the call. But importantly what the Inspector General told Congress Last week in the intelligence community, and the general who first fielded this complaint from the whistleblower, is this person is alleging misbehavior regarding more than one incident. Its something clearly that goes beyond this phone call. I think were trying to get to the question of what is this promise or commitment that allegedly was made. The one question were trying to get at is it something that precedes or comes after the phone call as well . Its important not to remember its not just this one incident that alarmed this official. Set something straight here, i heard the president say in one breath he hopes people see the phone call, everybodys looking for the phone call. And in another breath, when asked whether he would declassify it, he said hes not sure in regards to other phone calls, what is he saying . Its not entirely clear what hes saying. It is contradictory. I have no doubt hes enjoying the way this continues putting the spotlight back on joe biden as part of this, thats a nice spi side benefit to it. But if he were to release the transcript of the call, there are many people i understand in the federal government that have seen this. It would potentially put to rest any question of whether there was a quid pro quo that was actually involved in this conversation. But, again, it doesnt sound like the phone call is really the entire story here. What is the magnitude of this, jay . Put it in perspective for us. The president calling a foreign country and talking about his political opponent in the next election . As you noted, i was i am a former federal prosecutor. It should go on my banner today. Under Rudy Giuliani, he hired me alongside jim comey, and i prosecuted criminal Corruption Cases. It is a federal crime to solicit or knowingly accept the assistance of a Foreign Government or foreigner in a federal election. Thats for starters. The second, find it extraordinary an american president would solicit a Foreign Government to investigate a private american citizen. That alone, the son of his leading political opponent, so this contrary to the nature of this administration, they ought to just produce the transcript. Is there a question then that there was the president is trying to interfere in the next election if hes talking to a Foreign Government about his political opponent in 2020 about something he believes his son did, where theres never no proof of any wrongdoing, does that in and of itself mean he was trying to interfere in the 2020 election . Well, we spent two years investigating whether or not there was collusion with the russian government. Here the president directly solicited the Ukrainian Government for what some would say assistance in the upcoming federal election. So theres one would argue theres the exclusion, conspiracy right there. The president himself is directly soliciting is that impeachable . Thats a good question. Thats up to the house of representatives. Im kind of where i think Speaker Pelosi is right now. Were kind of inside the election window. And at some point we have to leave this to the voters. You never know, this president , sometimes things change day by day. No doubt about that. We were not talking about this a week ago. Joyce, the fbi, when you knew the fbi at least, what would they be doing under normal circumstances when it comes to ukraine, Rudy Giuliani going over there, the president s personal lawyer, and donald trump . Well, this is well within the fbis bailiwick. As the secretary knows, this is the sort of Corruption Case they loved best. Certainly Southern District of new york, other u. S. Attorneys offices would have seen news reporting not just on this story but the biden story and would probably be prompted to investigate. So perhaps one of the best guarantees you point out that theres no evidence of wrongdoing by the bidens is why did the president feel compelled to ask a Foreign Government to investigate if there really was anything to the allegations. It would have been awfully easy to send the information as a referral to the fbi and have them look into it. As to the president s conduct, i think the fbi i know and secretary johnson worked for would have investigated this to determine if there was anything to it. It is extraordinarily unusual that this almost Ministerial Task the dni had to defer the whistleblowers complaint over to the House Intelligence Committee once the Inspector General made a decision that complaint was both credible and urgent, the fact that that didnt happen like it should have is really a red flag. I suspect now what we will see is a lot of dithering, a lot of slow walking. Its doubtful if at all that complaint will reach congress. Someone needs to look into, and one hopes it would be the fbi and fbi now into whether anything improper has happened between this white house and others in an effort to obstruct the investigation into this whistleblowers complaint. Let me read you what the federal Election Commission chair said just a few months ago on june 13, 2019. Let me make something 100 clear to the American Public and Anyone Running for public office, it is illegal for any person to solicit, accept or receive anything of value from a Foreign National in connection with a u. S. Election. This is not a novel concept. I believe this comes right after the mueller testimony talking about what happened with russian interference in the 2016 election. Joyce, given that statement, how do you assess what the president is doing . This is another one of the options. We talked a little bit about the bribery statute. It would certainly be something you would want to investigate in this situation. The Campaign Finance accusation is relatively clear and you will recall in the Mueller Report the question about the intent to violate the statute. After going through the mueller process, we are ironically here at a second moment the president alleged to have sought election aides to have sought something of value from a foreign country with the United States election and thats a felony. Now there could be no question the president understood the legal consequences of that act. The problem is were running blind, and i dont mean to apply we the public are entitled to this information. Certainly the House Intelligence Committee is entitled to it. They need to have that basic complaint so they can understand what needs to be investigated and fulfill their article one obligation under the constitution to engage in oversight of this president. If he committed felony crimes, everyone has agreed, early on favorite impeachment, others who were more hesitant that felony violations of criminal law by the president are high crimes and misdemeanors that need to be given a hard look for impeachment, if our process and accountant means everything, Congress Needs to have that information so they can move forward. I think we can confidentially say the president had two strategies here. One, he doesnt believe he can get caught doing anything wrong. He thinks hes invincible. I think we can say that with everything that happened the last four years. And its im rubber and youre glu and anything you say to me, i will throw back and it will stibl on you. Now were seeing his own administration, his own cabinet secretaries are doing this for him as well. Heres pompeo and mnuchin over the weekend. Do you know why the president hasnt gone to the fbi about these allegations . I dont. I think the bigger story here is really what went on with biden and his son . What i do find is inappropriate is the fact Vice President biden at the times son did very significant business dealings in ukraine. I for one find that to be concerning. I dont understand. So its kate for donald trump jr. And eric trump to do business all over the world. Its okay for ivanka trump to have copy writes approved all over the world while President Trump is president but while Vice President biden was Vice President , his son shouldnt have been able to do business dealings . Again, i dont really want to go into more of these details. I do think if Vice President biden behaved appropriately and was with his son intervening in any way that was corrupt, we need to get to the bottom of that. If there was election interference that took place by the Vice President , i think the American People deserve to know. If its the case there was something going on with the president or his family that caused a conflict of interest and Vice President biden behaved in a way that was inconsistent with the way leaders ought to operate, i think the American People deserve to know that. Jeh, what do you think . There was an excellent piece in the wall street journal and the New York Times laying out the facts of the biden relationship to ukraine, what the Vice President did, what his son has done on the board of directors and you cannot connect those dots like the secretary of state and secretary of treasury tried to do. They clearly dont know what theyre talking about. Shane, good to see you as always, and jeh and joyce as well. Ahead democrats always support an impeachment inquire but is the whistleblower complaint the turning point the to change Speaker Pelosis mind . Classical Music playing throughout uh, well, this will be the kitchen. 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Now you can know whos on your network and control who shouldnt be, only with xfinity xfi. Simple. Easy. Awesome. The president is pushing us down this road, and if in particular after having sought foreign assistance and welcomed foreign assistance in the last president ial campaign as a candidate, he is now doing the same thing again but now using the power of the presidency, than he may force us to go down this road. I have spoken to a number of my colleagues over the last week and this seems different in kind and we may very well have crossed the rubicon here. Welcome back. That is Congress House intelligence chairman adam schiff suggesting the ps phone call with ukraine may be a turning point in the impeachment of the president in the house. Joining me now, republican strategist and msnbc political analyst suze abel and bazell michael, former director of the new York Democratic party as well. Everyone, thank you so much. Is the tide turning on impeachment . We have been having this conversation, various versions of it for a long time. The tide has been turning for a very long time. Very slow time. It is very slow but its speeding up over the last couple of days, or at least the weekend. Youre seeing pressure from more moderate members, particularly freshmen, who were very, very careful, these were democrats who joined the house after the 2018 sort of wave elections and many in more conservative districts where they basically felt they couldnt go too far because they didnt want to spook their constituents. Now when you have the president essentially admitting to having pressured a foreign leader to more or less get involved in a domestic election, its so black and white in some of these cases that for some of these guys youre starting to see statements out there saying lets get more facts out there but we can get there soon. Talking about freshman moderate democrats, heres Abby Spanberger of virginia. I find this deeply, deeply concern there is potentially a concern risen to the level of a whistleblower is stepping forward, the ig is saying its urgent in matter and yet congress is not given the information that it needs. What do you think . Listen, i think for freshmen members, as you said, and for a great many members on the fence, i think we are at that tipping point. If you look at Nancy Pelosis letter to her colleagues when she said that the president is endangering National Security, i dont see how you pull back from that, number one. And i do understand congress probably doesnt really have an apparatus to deal with a person like donald trump, i understand nancy pelosi has done all she could to try to protect those members in conservative districts to make sure they keep their seats but we are at a place right now where events can surpass her. And youre going to have a lot of democrats on the ground saying if not this than what p . If we cant make an argument, and i understand perhaps why the Mueller Report may be more detailed to some and not present the kind of evidence they need to go ahead with impeachment. But as you said, this is a bit more clearcut. And its the second time the president is interfering in a national election. So i dont see how you turn away from this at this point. Republicans will say this is just the democratic effort to get the president out of office by any means. And that is ridiculous. This is the president creating his own mess yet again. Like he said, he basically admitted i have spoke with a Foreign Government saying i need you to look into this biden mess. But what the congresswoman said is so important to where the conversation is different today, and that is she said the whistleblowers report to the ig was not allowed to be delivered to the House Intelligence Committee, which its required to by law. In a nutshell, that sums up where thats where the investigation can go, follow that paper trail. There is one. To me that is where this all focuses. The idea of impeachment for he said she said and the noise about biden is there and i understand it, but going after the whistleblower, and we know thats also in question because donald trump is already trying to question who was the whistleblower, meaning they wouldnt have the protections of one, thats critical to watch. Thats the trail. Is this going to be taken out of the political realm . We keep talking about impeachment as a political tool. What are the political consequences of democrats pushing for impeachment . And theres a very strong argument that its not political. There are lines and when you cross those lines, youre out. Regardless of the party youre in or regardless of whether or not we agree with you. Right. For the democrats, is it we have to worry about 2020 or this might hurt us in 2020 . And should it be there . This is an unfortunate reality for a lot of democrats right now. This has not been a political conversation or should not have been a political conversation for a very long time, two, three years for many of them. But the mechanism provided to them is unfortunately a political mechanism. I think what youre starting to see now though is exactly what you said, the politics of this are so overwhelming, they cosigned with the facts now. You have in some of these districts people saying were at a point where the politics are actually right and if we dont do anything, we will get pressure from our left. Go ahead. I dont think youre wrong but the nuance of that is that the senate wont convict, it will be construed as a highly partisan endeavor because its going to be pushed by and prosecuted by the democrats. And so what the difference here though to your point is that there are members in districts across the country. You have the electorate that is now more so than before firmly behind it so it gives the candidates a lot more cover than they once did to push for this. But theres one thing thats different. I agree with what both of you are saying as far as impeachment but to me its not the impeachment, its the investigation and what that investigation turns up that you can actually prove to the public. Assume if they open up an investigation, they will just take a vote on impeachment, but thats not the case. Theres a step in between, which is why i was in favor of starting the impeachment process or starting the hearings because they could go forward and get more information via the court. Again, for this whistleblower by starting an impeachment investigation, it will give schiff and others a way to proceed quickly and find out in this narrow scope what could happen. What if this ends up just following the same script weve seen over and over, if its just another rerun . And it seems to be doing this. An allege comes out, president denies it. Then he sort of admits it. Then he denies admitting it, and admits it again saying everybody does it. It was my responsibility to do it. Doesnt admit anything and republicans go out and say hes deeply troubled. Saying its critical for the facts to come out. The transcript gets released. By that point everybody has been talking in circles about it. It doesnt have the same impact if he would just came out cleanly to begin with. The president shrugs his shoulders. Republicans shrug their shoulders. Democrats dont impeach. What are the consequences of that . How does that affect the public . How do they feel about congress . How do they feel about democrats . How do they feel about republicans . What does it mean for 2020. I dont think there would be anybody happy about that circumstance except for donald trump, who would be thrilled by that circumstance. Unless we think about what happened in 2018. First off, lets stipulate nancy pelosi has already said and leadership of the House Democrats have already said this is Something Different and we are going to treat this differently, especially if later this week we dont hear from the acting director. Do you trust that . Do you think she will hold them in inherent contempt . Is there something more done than an angry letter, sternly worded letter . The good news is we will know in two days. But because this is so cut and dry than what we have seen before is it more cut and dry . Is it more cut and dry . It absolutely is but it still requires nancy pelosi and the leadership to make the compelling case to the American People. It doesnt say, if you dont find me dirt on joe bidens son, im not going to give you money, if it doesnt say it as explicitly as that, is it as cut and dry or is there room for the president and americans to muddy it up and try to throw biden under the bus . They will always find that room but that has nothing to do with what we as democrats should do. We have to make a compelling and credible case to the American People. Even if its not convicted, it has to move them to votes, to the polls, and if nancy pelosi, all she does is write a letter, we would have lost, plain and simple. To that point, nancy pelosi, shes in a position where if something doesnt happen, she can get rolled over. She does not want to be rolled over by her conference and theyre pushing to move forward. Good to see you all. Dont go anywhere too far. Coming up, Senate Minority leader Chuck Schumers very frank message as democrats try to gather information surrounding the whistleblowers complaint. Complaint. Your cash automatically goes into a Money Market Fund when you open a new account. And fidelitys rate is higher than e trades, Td Ameritrades, even 9 times more than schwabs. 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That was Senate Minority leader Chuck Schumer this afternoon urging Senate Republicans to join democrats in demanding information on both the call between President Trump and ukraines leader and the related whistleblowers complaints. As the Trump Administration continues to Stonewall Congress on mults am fronts, pressure is building for democrats to do whatever they have to do to get the information they need. This morning President Trump told reporters he is not taking the talk of impeachment seriously. Maybe thats because the president says he didnt do anything inappropriate. Or maybe its because democrats have been using the i word for months and dont have much to show for it. Iowas senator is joining us now to explain where democrats go next. Senator, welcome. Where do democrats go next . Where they go next is where they should have been going for quite a while and maybe were getting there, i hope, and that is to start an impeachment inquiry on this president. The latest revelations simply point out that we are not in normal times when you have a president that lies to the American People every single day and doesnt think the rule of law applies to him. Sure, he will stand there and say i did not wrong because thats he truly doesnt think he can do anything wrong or break the law. An impeachment inquiry is what we need. Does he believe that because the democrats havent actually done an impeachment i inquiry, they refuse to say yes, we will impeach him . Frankly, i dont care what he believes. All i know is one thing he does believe is that the rule of law doesnt apply to him. Is that because of the rule of law has not applied to him so far . Is that because it has not had any consequences for him so far . I think katy, i think the consequences begin to be real for him when we begin an impeachment inquiry and thats kind of where jerry nadler is going and this is where he should continue to go and this time we have the added situation which a lot of people are saying this is the tipping point, crossing the line here. Who are a lot of people . You have a adam schiff, sfranc for example. And i know theres a letter from nancy pelosi saying this is a whole different situation if they do not get the whistleblowers complaint. The whistleblowers protection of statute is very clear on its face. What was supposed to happen after the ig determined there was an urgent concern being expressed by the whistleblower and it was credible, supposed to go to the director of national intelligence, who had no discretion. Hes supposed to turn it over to the Intelligence Committee but what does he do . No, he doesnt do that. He goes to the attorney general, attorney general barr whose goal in life is support and protect this president. So what happens . You have the Office Legal Counsel in the Attorney Generals Office saying, no, you dont have to follow the law. What is this . It is very blatant. We need to get to the bottom of it. The way you do that is to begin an impeachment i inquiry. I would love to ask one of your republican colleagues about this but we dont have one on the show today. Not to mention theyre all hiding behind the president. Can you give us insight on any conversations you may have had with your republican colleagues . We have seen mitt romney tweet out hes greatly concerned. Were supposed to feel grateful one republican, who ran for president no less, expressed deep concern. I would like to see him come in with other colleagues and step out of the shadows and do their jobs. Were supposed to be a Second Branch of government and holding the president accountable. These are very serious allegations at this point from the whistleblower, and im not surprised the administration is trying to negate what the whistleblower has come up with. Im not surprised at all, because the president , katy, cares about two things, protecting his as we say ocoli and money. Kno those are the two driving forces for him and right now hes so intent and protecting himself he will do and say anything and apparently he has an administration whos perfectly willing to go along with him. Its more than sad. It is tragic for our country. We need to do something about it and that something is open an impeachment inquiry. Let me ask you this, how do you get your hands on that transcript . Is there a way for democrats to do it or congress to do it that does not involve the courts . Thank goodness we still have the courts. Apparently with this president , he fights every single thing there are dozens and dozens of lawsuits that had to be filed based on every decision practically this administration makes or executive order. This is yet another instance where were going to probably need to fight it out in the courts because i dont expect other republicans to suddenly get some guts and come forward and start asking and calling for the disclosure of the report. I dont expect that. So we need to fight it out in the courts where the president and Mitch Mcconnell are very, very busy populating with their ideologically oriented nominees. Do you anticipate calling in Rudy Giuliani before a committee . What is he going to say . Hes already admitted he went to talk to the people in the ukraine for the president. It sounds like youre saying you dont need any more information. You already know what should be done. Do you believe impeachment is inevitable . No, you asked me specifically whether they should call Rudy Giuliani. I would like the committee, they probably probably the view szisha judiciary committee, to do what they need to do and establish a process by which they can undertake a impeachment inquiry. Do you think its inevitable . No, nothing is inevitable. The impeachment query allows, very importantly, information to come forward and prelude to an impeachment decision, which we have to then make. But the inquiry comes before the decision to impeach. Theres a process to be followed, something that the president does not give a rip about. Senator maisie ha rona, senator, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. Up next a new iowa poll has Elizabeth Warren taking the lead. What it means for the other frontrunner and the 2020 democrats are still trying to catch up. Paneras new warm grain bowls are full of good. Full of flavor, color, full of woo full of good. So you can be too. Try our new warm grain bowls today. Panera. Food as it should be. Theyre americas biopharmaceutical researchers. Pursuing lifechanging cures in a country that fosters innovation here, they find breakthroughs. Like a way to fight cancer by arming a patients own tcells. Because its not just about the next breakthrough. Its all the ones after that. Its just the way things are. When youre under pressure to get the job done, it seems you have to accept the fact that some equipment will sit idle, or underutilized. But it doesnt have to be that way. Thats why United Rentals is combining equipment, data, safety and expertise to help your worksite perform better. United rentals. A better worksite is here. Welcome back. Tonight in 2020 vision, the Democratic Candidates spending their time in iowa today are chasing a new frontrunner there. Our country faces many, many problems. And the only way we solve those problems is when people become involved in the political process. Im propelled to run for president by the feeling that our country is running out of time. Bernie sanders and Pete Buttigieg are campaigning in iowa today after a weekend where 17 democratic president ial candidates took stakes, snapped selfies and pitched voters in the hawky state. And after a weekend that shook up the leaderboard there. What happens in 2020 is not just about the next four years or eight years, its generations to come. And a big part of that decision will be made right here in iowa. Elizabeth warren and joe biden now in a virtual tie in iowa, according to the new Des Moines Register poll. At 22 , warren is up seven points since june, overtaking biden, who sits at 20 , though her lead is within the margin of error. Bernie sanders is at 11, down five points since june. And another tough number for sanders in that poll, nearly a third of ieye iowan who supportd sanders in 2016 are now for warren. How this is playing out now on the campaign trail, thats next. 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I searched for someone who really knew my car. I found the experts at safelite autoglass. Woman hi vo with their exclusive technology, they fixed my windshield. Then recalibrated the camera attached to my glass so my Safety Systems still work. Who knew that was a thing . woman safelite has service i can trust. Singers safelite repair, safelite replace. I know trump deserves to be investigated. Hes violated every basic norm of a president. You should ask him why is he on the phone with a foreign leader, trying to intimidate a foreign leader . If that happened. Thats what appears to have happened. Trump knows i will beat him like a drum and hes using abuse of power and every element of the presidency to try to do something to smear me. Welcome back. Joe biden says this whistleblower complaint is proof hes the candidate President Trump fears the most heading into next years election. And today the former Vice President once again went after the president for describing his call with ukraines president as nice, tweeting so release the transcript of the call then. All right, guys, how is the Joe Biden Campaign playing this . And is any strategy effective if donald trump is just muddying the water like he did in 2016 . One of the differences here is obviously were still in a primary. I think it is pretty effective for joe biden to say this shows hes scared of me. Lets not forget joe bidens central pitch or the sub texts of what hes saying all the time is im the electable one. Im the one who can beat donald trump. So when he says trump is afraid of me, that adds to what he says in a convincing way. And theres a lot of sense trump is scared of him because every single headtohead poll shows biden winning by a very large margin. Lets not frepd hes the only one who can beat trump. That is obviously not the case. But when you hear him say the response to this, a, theres no evidence any of this information trump is trying to spread around biden is true, and, b, trump is afraid of us, their message is trump is afraid. Thats an effective message. Lets listen to the commerce director today on my show. What we have at issue here is the president of the United States is trying to dig up dirt with a foreign country on the political opponent he most fears at home. Any time the question is about strategy and how it might impact the campaign, thats letting donald trump off the hook. Thats what he wants. Thats how he runs this playbook. Deputy campaign manager, excuse me. Donald trumps Approval Rating, guys, 45 approve, 53 disapprove, but 69 of americans say they do not like him personally. 69 . Those numbers are not good. Susan . Theyre not good. His Approval Rating has never been good. Its never been over 50 in a gallup poll since he took office. And thats the first time thats happened in 60, 70 years. Donald trump is not liked. His policies are not well regarded. He is simply his own force of nature to get through this race, and it always has to be about him and it will always be his personality. The question i wonder about is biden may be the choice right now for trump to pick on, and it does help him in the short term looking like the one who can be the best one one to take on donald trump, but i think this is going to take a toll on biden. I think this is something that will it will cause him more problems than not going forward. I think theres a question o Trump Supporters hold him to the lowest imaginable standard of conduct while democratic voters hold their leaders to fairly high standards. Trumps base is almost immune to news of misconduct by him while the Democratic Base is highly sensitive toy it. Its therefore plausible for trump to assume that a story that combines unsubstantiated allegations against people in his opponents orbit with massive undisguised abuse of power by trump himself is a net win. Heres what i would say. Im not sure that this affects biden negatively in a match up against donald trump. I wonder what it does to biden in a match up against warren or sanders or somebody else, buttigieg, in the democratic field. Right. Because as everyone has said, when biden came into this race, he wanted to frame it as a race between him and donald trump. And hes getting a bit of that now again after having gone through some weeks and months of having to fend off a lot of arrows coming right at him. In the shortterm, this does benefit him because my guess is that the other candidates are going to want to protect themselves even because they could turn easily into them. Anybody else kind of sit back and say this is good for us . I mean, look, they can muddying these waters. Is that too cynical. They can come back and say, look, if theyre attacking biden, they can attack any one of us and use those talking points going forward. You heard and saw how biden, he was one of the more forceful, as forceful as i have seen him in a long time. One thing is interesting is if you look at Elizabeth Warren, she actually underwent those attacks several years ago, but she survived them, and went on. The pocahontas attacks. Yeah. She stuck to her message, heres my policy, heres my plan, im not going to worry about this. Im going to talk to you about what i want to do when i get to the white house. Would that be a better strategy . Thats something that biden is going to have to make the turn to do. While its true, he does get to say im in a one on one match up with trump. Its a war of words, trump is afraid of me. The unfortunate reality is were having flash backs of 2016 for good reason. This is not something biden wanting to be talking about. Reporters, every time he comes out and we hear this, youre not asking donald trump the questions i think you should be asking him, reporters whenever they see him are asking him very blunt questions, what did you say on that phone call, did you promise something, left, right and center. Not every single reporter gets to go up to donald trump and ask him that question. Not every single anchor does because he doesnt come on television for anybody except fox news. When you say that to reporters and youre joe biden or one of the other candidates are you succeeding in making it look like the media is a problem and therefore succeeding in muddying all of the waters and tearing down kind of the foundation of the system . Are we distorting the entire system in this political race or the past four years. If youre playing a game and someones cheating, you cant win if you follow the rules, so thats whats typically going to happen. Whoever the democratic nominee is going to have to not play by the rules to play against donald trump. What are the rules . Im not sure, but donald trump has been dictating them of late. He has. He has basically written the rules of engagement that he will only engage in. It does not bode well for democrats to get into his game. We have to stick whatever. Is it better to do what warren is doing and just talk about her policy and ignore Everything Else . Listen, on one hand, i absolutely think so, on the other hand, if biden chooses to play the trump game, the question i have, how much is the country, the democratic electorate ready for Donald Trumpish character on the left. I dont know that they are. Do they want somebody to sort of be all embracing of everybody, cory booker had some of that language, and look where hes been in the polls. The question i have, which i think is unanswered at this point, how much do democrats really want someone whos going to be the uniter or do they want somebody whos going to go at donald trump in exactly the way donald trump gives it to us. I dont think we have an answer to that. At the end of the day, its not credible to think joe biden is going to be a trump like figure. Hes someone with a very set image in the American Mind and for him to become this dividing, divisive pit pull, thats not who hes going to be. Thats part of the electability, right. Theres a primary first. There is a primary first. Hes going to have to get through his other democratic opponents before he gets to donald trump. Gabe, susan and basil, thank you very much, we will be right back with an urgent, burning issue. With an urgent, burning issue. Liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. I wish i could shake your hand. Granted. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. 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Welcome to fowler, indiana. One of the windiest places in america. And home to three bp wind farms. In the offchance the wind ever stops blowing here. The lights can keep on shining. Thanks to our natural gas. A smart partner to renewable energy. Its always ready when needed. Or. Not. At bp, we see possibilities everywhere. To help the world keep advancing. In case you missed it, the growing Global Movement to urge action on the Climate Crisis is a big deal. It is such that big deal that last week millions of demonstrators around the world, many of them young people took to the streets to call for action on Climate Change. It is such a big deal that the Global Climate strike is believed to have been the largest Climate Change protest in history. It is such a big deal that climate protesters shut down streets in washington, d. C. This morning as a way to draw attention to the urgent need for action. It is such a big deal that the secretary general of the United Nations convened an all day gathering of World Leaders to discuss plans to combat global warming. It is such a big deal that the pope sent a video message to that gathering. It is such a big deal that teenage climate activist Greta Thunberg was nearly in tears as she accused World Leaders of failing to act, yes, the growing Global Movement to urge action on the Climate Crisis is such a big deal that President Trump showed up to that United Nations summit for a grand total of 15 minutes. And then he said this. Im a big believer in clean air and clean water and all countries should get together and do that, and they should do it for themselves. Very very important. You know what, that sounds like a great idea. It also sounds a lot like the paris climate agreement, maybe, maybe we should start by sticking to that. Thanks, well be back tomorrow with more meet the press daily. In the meantime, the beat with ari melburg starts right now. Hi, katie, great to have you back. Donald trump has been admitting to attempted collusion, demanding a Foreign Government undercut his domestic opponent. That is our lead story. I want to tell you later, neil cocha will be here explaining his agent or the case for impeachment. And Corey Lewandowski lying again, i have a fact check on that in the hour. A new fall out in International Scandal consuming the trump white house. Tonight washington is reeling over a story unlike anything that we have