Transcripts For MSNBCW MTP Daily 20181205

Good evening, im chuck todd here in washington, and welcome to mtp daily, on this national day of mourning. President george h. W. Bush left washington for the final time this afternoon, after a Funeral Service at the National Cathedral. It was an emotional ceremony with all five living president s in attendance. Right now, president bushs remains are aboard a special air mission 41, otherwise known as fa air force one, it is en route to houston. Were going to have much more on the 41st president later in the show. We have a terrific panel to remember him with as he makes his final trek back home to texas. But we will switch gears, in the meantime, we begin with what seems to be a very public warning to the current president from bob mueller. Last night, just one week after individual one, who we now know is President Trump, emerged as a central subject of his investigation, Robert Muellers team slipped this otherwise innocuous line in a sentencing memo for the president s former National Security adviser Michael Flynn. Quote, flynns record of military and Public Service distinguish him from every other person who has been charged as part of the special counsels investigation. However, senior government leaders should be held to the highest standards. Let that last phrase sink in a moment. Senior government leaders should be held to the highest standards. Folks, flynns case is a microsome of where some think the investigation could be headed. With last nights sentencing memo, mueller has laid out one, how a senior government leader was being influenced by a foreign powers financial leverage, and two, how a senior government leader then lied about his foreign ties in an attempt to cover them up. Mueller notes how flynn not only lied to investigators about his contacts with russia while he was the National Security adviser in both before the president took the oath and when he was sort of the National Security adviser to be, but how he also lied about the work he was doing in secret as an agent of the government of turkey. So, in a moment when flynn was supposed to be using his power as a top trump adviser to take positions that would benefit the United States of america, his company was being paid more than half a Million Dollars to take positions that would benefit a foreign government. And then, flynn lied about those arrangements. Also, the sentencing memo is chock full of indications that muellers investigation is far wider and far deeper than we might have expected. For instance, mueller says flynn provided, quote, substantial assistance to not one, not two, but three separate ongoing federal investigations, one of them is criminal, and dont forget, this is all the result of an investigation into flynn that President Trump allegedly, according to james comey, tried to shut down. We know one of those ongoing investigations directly involves the president. But we dont know for sure what the other two are about. And one of them, as i mentioned earlier, is a criminal investigation. Joining me now is two people who have obviously very familiar with this investigation, joyce vance is an msnbc contributor and former u. S. Attorney, and shane erris from the Washington Post. Shane, let me start with you, with the mystery probes, other than the special counsel investigation that mike flynn may have been helping out with. One of them appears to be this turkey debacle, the kidnapping plot, that may be the criminal one, on that front, but it doesnt seem to be that we know a lot about the third investigation. What is your reporting unearthing . Were still looking into that. You raised the question about the allegation that mike flynn had been involved in a platt to kidnap someone. That was one of the first things that came to my mind, this possibly could be. There have also been allegations in reporting of a number of organizations that mike flynn was involved in an effort to try to push a deal involving Nuclear Power plants in saudi arabia. There is, of course, what mike flynn might know about other connections between people in the Trump Transition Team going into the administration. Also the campaign before that. With people in russia. So, when you look at mike flynn and the universe of things he was involved in, or touched or was alleged to have been involved in, its pretty substantial. And so i think theres probably a fairly significant list of things that might be those investigations that are hiding underneath those black lines in that document. Joyce vance, you read this sentencing memo, you saw the phrase substantial assistance, the recommendation to little to know actual jail time. What does this tell you as a former prosecutor . It strongly indicates that flynn had something very valuable to offer to prosecutors, probably more than one thing, right . I mean, we see the three investigations on the face of the document, where prosecutors indicate hes provided significant information. This notion of substantial assistance is actually imbedded in the rules for federal prosecutors. It permits prosecutors to recommend a lower sentence than the one established by law for a defendant who provides assistance that helps them make additional criminal cases or criminal cases against additional people. So, it seems that flynns cooperation for prosecutorials has lived up to their expectations when they signed him up. And joyce, when you see the notations of three investigations and they note that one of them is the special counsels investigation, one is criminal and one is this mystery one, is is it one of the theories that ive heard out there is that Robert Mueller is doing his best to actually farm out as much of his investigation as he can to other entities, whether its the Southern District of new york, the Eastern District of virginia. Frankly, in case he gets fired. So, is this likely what this is all a piece of, that as the special counsel has unearthed stuff, possibly with mike flynn, hes been farming this stuff out . I dont think we can answer that for sure, chuck. It could be that hes construing his mandate from Rod Rosenstein pretty narrowly. He can investigation into connections between the campaign and russia, he can look at obstruction, but theres also this broader provision that lets him investigation any matters that come up as a result of his investigation, so, theres really, strictly speaking, no need for him to hand pieces off. He could be doing it for resource purposes, he has a limited number of prosecutors and agents. But he could also, as you say, be doing it in an effort to ensure the case exists in so many different components of doj that it cant be squelched by, say, for instance, acting a. G. Matt whitaker. Shane harris, this is what Rudy Giuliani told us in response to the flynn sentencing memo. He sort of tried to, i think, embrace the redactions, he noted, if flynn had information to share with mueller that hurt the president , you would know it by now. Theres a yiddish word that fits, they dont have bubkes. I looked at the sentencing memo and it seems like if there is bubkes in there, it was redacted. Does Rudy Giuliani even know would the president s team know what he has helped with yet . Oh, i dont think that they would. They might suspect, maybe joyce would answer this better than me, but i dont think theres any reason to believe they have any idea whats underneath those redactions. You know, theres another tell elsewhere in that document, which is where mueller says that flynns cooperation has essentially compelled other people in this investigation to be more forthcoming about information that they know. One thing i know from my own reporting is one person whose story changed a bit to investigators after flynns predicament became known was k. T. Mcfarland, his deputy. And we know from his earlier guilty plea that k. T. Mcfarland was the individual who was relaying to mike flynn during the transition what to say about sanctions to the russian ambassador, and that she was doing this while she was down at maralago with other Senior Trump Administration officials. It is possible, were speculating here, we think its fairly informed speculation, that if there is any kind of answer of what did donald trump tell Michael Flynn to say, if anything, to the russian ambassador, its possible that message flowed through k. T. Mcfarland. If what mueller is trying to say here is, in addition to the information flynn provided, he also got other people to kind of come clean and be more forthcoming, that could be a very significant piece of this whole collusion puzzle. Joyce vance, what message is Robert Mueller trying to send with this phrase, however, senior government leaders should be held to the highest standards . Right. Hes stating a very clear principle that applies to the president , perhaps to his daughter, who is a senior counselor, indicating that people who are entrusted with great responsibility have a great obligation. Thats how Robert Muellers lived his life. Thats a principle that doj prosecutors operate under. Hes indicating that people in government should be held to a high standard, and i think we need to help Rudy Giuliani out, this is not what my grandparents would call bubkas, this is the whole schmear. Mueller is saying, hes got it and hes coming after folks. You said its an indication that Government Officials should be held to the highest standards but its not as if there is a separate, that a Government Official is going to get held to a higher standard than a private individual as far as the law is concerned, this is more of a political argument hes making . No, i think its a legal one, chuck. Theres actually a provision inside of the sentencing guidelines that indicate people who hold a position of trust or authority can actually be sentenced at a higher level than just those of us who are private citizens. Thats not necessarily limited to government, but it applies to government. And as reality, we know that people who are entrusted with public funds or public responsibility who engage in corrupt practices become special targets in the eye of prosecutors. Muellers just restating that fundamental principle that animates public prosecutions. And Matt Whitaker is now the acting attorney general. Would he have seen these unredacted portions . I yeah, i dont think we though the answer to that question. He could force the issue. I think hes sitting in the chair, hes not as far as we know recused. He could insist on being shown that information. But theres often this yin and yang between the person sitting at the top and the people doing the work on the line, and even as the u. S. Attorney, i would have had to have asked to see that. It doesnt look like he did or if he did, it doesnt look like he interfered. And it would be very hard, frankly, if mueller has multiple witnesses who are giving him consistent information, for an acting attorney general to interfere. And shane harris, mike flynn has not been apart of the president s twitter feed in some time when it comes to the mueller probe. Hes let him alone. Hit a roger stone supported a manafort, roger stone, sometimes hit him. Hes never touched flynn recently and of course previously was standing by him, perhaps out of fear of what he might say. He has said nothing here. How much does the president s team fear flynn . I think the indications that ive gotten and also my colleagues, too, in our reporting, is that the president has been concerned that mike flynn could reveal a lot. And theres good reason for that. He was an adviser to donald trump through the campaign, he was certainly the most senior and wellknown person from u. S. National security circles to be advising thencandidate trump, was with him at the convention. He was close in, and a vital part of that transition, and knows a lot. And knows a lot of the key players and obviously spent time with him in the white house. And i do think that he kind of the lack of a twitter barrage, whether positive or negative, directed towards flynn, gave an indication that the president thought, leave that one alone. And when donald trump shows restrint, thats pretty telling. Thats the way i look at it, too. When he says nothing, means, boy, hes more nervous than we think. Joyce vance, shane harris, thank you both. Coming up, were going to dissect more of muellers message. Our supersized panel is next. Applebees bigger bolder grill combos are back. Now thats eatin good in the neighborhood. Unwanted odors lingering too long in your car . Try febreze car vent clips just snap the clip and insert in the vent to eliminate lingering odors for up to 30 days. Try febreze car vent clips, available in a range of light to bold scents. So a and as if thatyour brwasnt bad enough,tals it. Now your insurance wont replace it outright because of depreciation. If your insurance wont replace your car, what good is it . Youd be better off just taking your money and throwing it right into the harbor. Im regret that. With new car replacement, if your brandnew car gets totaled, Liberty Mutual will pay the entire value plus depreciation. Liberty mutual insurance. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. This is moving day with the best inhome wifi experience and millions of wifi hotspots to help you stay connected. And this is moving day with Reliable Service appointments in a twohour window so youre up and running in no time. Show me decorating shows. This is staying connected with xfinity to make moving. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and twohour appointment windows. Click, call or visit a store today. Welcome back. We got much more on the fallout from bob muellers latest court filing, but look, this is special air mission 41 before landing in houston. They plan on doing a bit of a flyover over the bush library in College Station, which is, of course, a few hours away. He will be landing in houston. Theyll have a Funeral Service tomorrow in houston and president bush will make his final trek to his library via train. We are watching. Were going to introduce you to the panel here, we have george will, maureen dowd, former white house chief of staff andy card and Washington Post National Politics columnist karen tumulty. You were at that introduction of that blibrary, maureen . Yes. Why did he pick College Station . Andy, do you remember . I do. He picked College Station he had no connection to it except he had been invited to speak there. Okay. And every time he went to speak there, he did when he was president and he gave a major speech there, they treated him well, he loved the underlying im going to say spirit and the core values of texas a m, and he just fell in love with the place. And he also was being wooed by yale and andover and he said no, im going to go to College Station. And university of houston really wanted the library, too. I bet they did. He liked College Station because of the core values and the cadets there are about 2,400 core cadet members in a campus of 65,000 students. Its the core cadets that give that place the core values that make texas a m special. And it is a very special place. Well, and obviously theres been a lot of sort of bush connections with texas a m. Bob gates, former secretary of defense, president of texas a m. There it is, as theyre doing the flyover. President bush will be joining the former first lady, barbara bush, and his daughter, robin and thats where the bush school of government and Public Service is, which is his living legacy, because those are the people being trained to enter Public Service, and thats what its all about. He didnt want an institute. He wanted a school. Really teaching young people and introducing them to the opportunity to serve in Public Service. George, the split screen that i feel like im stuck with today a little bit, got this mueller situation, weve got this were, i think, correctly, i believe, especially with me having teenagers, i want them to learn something today about a former president , about what what should folks take away from this split screen, the current political situation and the political situation that were describing to people that may not have lived through the life of president bush. Well, on one side of the split screen, there are developments that are daily, not that theyre unimportant, but they wont be with us forever. On the other side was this marvelous civic liturgy that the country has. Republics dont do this naturally. If you have a monarchy, 800 years of history, pomp and circumstance comes more or less naturally to a country like that. In a republic, which is kind of leery of celebrating the state and celebrating the rulers and all the rest, to come up with a republican, small r, republican celebration of Smaller Government like this, was quite stirring, i thought. Maureen . Well, i think in this era of covering white collar crimes and porn stars and vulgarity, you know, it was nice to look back to someone who was trying to respect decency and civility. And when they were planning his funeral in 2011, he said to an aide, do you think anyone will come . And that modesty is in such contrast to trumps endless odyssey of narcicisstic selfdiscovery. It struck me, karen, when we talk about a lot of people say, is it an end of an era with him, and you just brought up the idea that he was this there was still this sort of the new england sort of conservative, you dont show youre not a showboat. Our president s since have all been celebry if ied. Right after him, bill clinton became a big celebrity. W was branded. He became a celebrity. Obama and trump. Something has changed between the end of bush 41 and what we have today. Oh, exactly. And the Service Managed to do what the man himself imagined to do, which is something almost impossible. He was almost regal and modest at the same time. And i was really struck by the difference in tone from the mccain funeral, which happened in that same spot just three months ago, which was such a direct rebuke of donald trump, it was almost like donald trump was there was no subtlety. There was no subtlety with that. More subtlety with that. This was actually more summoning people to the values that George Herbert walker bush stood for. I compared the speeches that george w. Bush gave at that service and at this service, and he was talking about despots and b bigots there. Here, he was talking about the fundamental human values that made his father both a great father and a good man. Well, its interesting, though, andy, george w. Bush spoke at both of them. But he made sure to he made sure to channel the person he was eulogizing. So, he channeled john mccain, you know, in some ways, and maybe taking a dig, and he channeled his father in being the bigger guy. President george h. W. Bush respected the institutions of democracy. And he actually celebrated them every day that he was serving in whatever it was. No matter where he was in government. He understood the kind of core values and what it means to be in a republican democracy. And doesnt trash the institutions, he defended the cia and went there to help clean it up. He defended the institutional of the presidency when Richard Nixon was in deep trouble. He defended the twoparty system when it was thought to be out of sorts. And this was another reflection of respecting the institutions of our democracy and that was how george bush lived his life. George, where does he fit in the history of conservatism . Where would you put him and how would you write about him in that sense . Well, he was elected, in a way, because the country wanted a third reagan term and he was standing there. He got in trouble for violating a very clear promise to the American People and it didnt work out well in terms of the numbers, economic growth, deficit reduction, unemployment, they all went the wrong way afterwards. I dont think thats his fault, necessarily, because i dont think president s control the economy, but they pretend to. So, he was to many conservatives, hes someone who, in a way, dissipated the reagan momentum that the country had imparted to it, up to 1988. Ill push back on that a little bit. Push away. Well, first of all this is kind of what i wanted here. The house was overwhelmingly democrat. He didnt want to govern by executive order. He respected the reagan had a Republican Senate for six years of his eight. Right. But bush did not. Bush didnt have any of that. Bush didnt have it. So, he had to build some kind of compromise strategy in order to get his legislative agenda through, which he was quite successful at getting through, and even on violating the tax pledge that he had given, no new taxes, it was the senate that kind of said, we can do something, its got to be comprehensive, big package, but it will include new revenues. It was the house that created the tea party opportunity, newt gingrich, all that kind of stuff. He was trying to get something accomplished. He also had a very canny adversary in george mitchell. What do you mean by that . Well, he was an extremely shrewd legislature. I heard the word candy. Not canny. George Herbert Walker bush had minimum legislative experience, when he said, raise taxes and cut spending, they took the taxes and didnt stop the spending. He did. But on the house side, he worked and built coalitions. Spent hours at the negotiating table, it was real negotiating. They came to an understanding i will admit, some people on the republican said it was revenue enhancement, not new taxes, but it violated the deal, and the president understood the consequence that was likely to come. I dont think he did a good enough job of describing the success and the discipline that was being introduced into congress and the executive was that his fatal flaw, his inability to boast . He wasnt boastful . He didnt know how to do it well . I think he also, though, by the time he reaches reelection time, hes being undermined from three different directions. The conservatives are abandoning him. Bill clinton is a very good candidate who can really connect with the economic pain that people were feeling in the recession, and then theres ross perot out there, sort of raising the deficit as an issue, in a way that we had never seen before. So, he was having to deal withed a verve says, essentially, from three directions. Well, the violation of the read my lips on taxes, it created an opportunity for pat buchanan to wedge into New Hampshire and disrupt the structure of the republican party, which invited ross perot. And he was eventually the one that created the difference between success and failure in reelection. Maureen, does that make george h. W. Bush the father of the gingrich and the tea party moveme movements . Unintentionally, right . You know, bush treated words like little buzzing flies, and when he made a Campaign Promise like that, that didnt stop him from thinking he could throw that out and govern differently. He wasnt looking to throw it out, but he knew the consequence. Yeah. Im going to positive the conversation here. Up ahead, i want to talk about another big story in the news today, the growing stock shock over china. How President Trump is trying to clean up his selfmade trade crisis. Well be right back. Eastbound and down. Loaded up and truckin. Are we gonna do what they say cant be done . Weve got a long way to go and a short time to get there. Im eastbound, just watch ole bandit run. Whatever party youve got goin in the back, weve got the business up front. I saw my leg did not look right. I landed. I was just finishing a ride. I felt this awful pain in my chest. I had a pe blood clot in my lung. I was scared. I had a dvt blood clot. Having one really puts you in danger of having another. My doctor and i chose xarelto®. Xarelto®. To help keep me protected. Xarelto® is a latestgeneration blood thinner thats. Proven to treat and reduce the risk of dvt or pe blood clots from happening again. In clinical studies, almost 98 of patients on xarelto® did not experience another dvt or pe. Xarelto® works differently. Warfarin interferes with at least 6 of your bodys natural bloodclotting factors. Xarelto® is selective, targeting just one critical factor. Dont stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase risk of blood clots. While taking, you may bruise more easily, or take longer for bleeding to stop. Xarelto® can cause serious, and in rare cases, fatal bleeding. It may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. Get help right away for unexpected bleeding or unusual bruising. Do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. Before starting, tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures and any kidney or liver problems. Learn all you can. To help protect yourself from another dvt or pe. Talk to your doctor about xarelto®. Youre looking live at ellington airfield in houston, texas. As we said, special air mission 41 is right now flying former president jgeorge h. W. Bush bac to houston. We just saw the plane make a low, slow flyover, a wing tip, if you will, to the George Bush Library center where the president will be buried tomorrow, next to his wife, barbara, and his daughter, robin. This is where the plane will land shortly, and once it does, the president s casket will be taken to st. Martins e ppiscop church in houston, where his body will lie in repose until tomorrow. Well talk more about the day when we come back. So, that goal youve been saving for, you can do it. We can do this. At fidelity, our online planning tools are clear and straightforward so you can plan for retirement while saving for the things you want to do today. Whoo you might or joints. Hinghings for your heart. But do you take something for your brain. With an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish, prevagen has been shown in Clinical Trials to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. Welcome back. President trump is trying to clean up his selfmade trade crisis. First, he touted what he called an incredible deal to pause the trade war with china over the weekend. But then, mr. Trump helped set off investor jitters with tweets yesterday calling himself a tariff man. So, now hes trying to change his tone. President trump tweeted this morning that he seeing very strong signals from china to pause the trade war. Quote, not to sound naive or anything, but i believe president xi meant every word of what he said at our long and hopefully historic meeting. All subjects discussed. Chinese government said today that its confident in the trade talks, but offered little clarity on what exactly they agreed to or purported to even talk about. Out of all the news this week, from former president george h. W. s funeral to the latest developments in the mueller probe, this is arguably the most consequential for your pocketbook and the Global Economy. Greg, good to see you, sir. Hi, chuck. So, help me understand this a little bit. I guess the best explanation ive understood is, the president got a the phrase is, got out over his skis a little bit before the chinese were ready to announce. Is this naivety about the chinese or just maybe inexperience on how to deal with the chinese . I think its a product of the unusual negotiations are conducted under this administration. When you are entering a very completion negotiation and they dont come much more complex than this relationship, you typically have your lower level officials spend literally months in hard negotiations hammering out details. Then the president s get together and they sign off on what everybody agrees you said you would do. Maybe one Sticking Point that has to be done on the leader to leader level. Correct. Here, were doing it kind of backwards. The president s agree to the agenda, then they send their officials out to do the hard negotiating. If you look at trumps tweets, though the tone keeps changing, the substance is always just the same. We had discussions to talk about these things. And where this will all sort of, like, end up is the key question. What in the end will the chinese agree to do, relative to what the u. S. Wants them to do, and can the United States, can trump accept that as a deal . You know, during the cold war, the assumption was, were going to go into this sort of back and forth, this sort of this decision to, you know, spend and spend and spend and the assumption was, theyre going to go into bankruptcy before we do, who has the better hand here in these negotiations . In the cold war, you would have extremely tense negotiations on things like nuclear weapons, but the economic fallout was limited, because the soviet union was basically hermetically sealed. China is heavily integrated in the world and u. S. Economy. The dow goes up and down because the outcome of these negotiations matter for u. S. Companies and u. S. Consumers. Now, if you look at the raw numbers, the u. S. Should have the leverage. U. S. Exports to china are less than 1 of gdp. Their exports to us are about 4 of gdp. But having leverage is one thing. Knowing how to use it is another. The u. S. Needs to be careful that what it asks for is deliverable. On that list, theres a whole continuum. Some things are easy. China says, you want us to buy more soybeans and liquefies natural gas, easy. You want us to end joint venture requirements, lower tariffs, well, yeah, we can probably do that. And then there are things that are really hard. A big problem is forced technology transfer. The chinese say, we dont force anybody. They do it voluntarily. And if you are saying, give up our whats voluntarily . China says its voluntarily. If you want this amount of money for your business, then you have to give us this is that really voluntarily or is that a bit of, you know, extortion . And i think that is whats going to be really hard to decide in 90 days. If you listen to the different voices coming out of the administration, we had john bolton speaking yesterday, very hawkish, he was saying, its not just about them buying a trillion dollars worth of stuff, its about aspects of their behavior, and sththen steve mnun said, they will buy a trillion dollars of our stuff. The United States usually has more leverage because were representing a larger bloc of other countries. Doesnt seem that weve made the decision were not the only country that doesnt like chinas trade prax r practictic were the only one fighting it this hard. There are positive signs on that front. Administration officials have played up the fact that there was a joint agreement of the World Trade Organization needs to be fixed, but it allowed china to get away with too much stuff. If you talk to people in the european union, canada, japan, they are coming around to the view that chinas a real problem and there needs to be action. The question is, is this administration prepared to reach out to them, pull back from some of the friction its created on things like steel and aluminum tariffs, and form that united front. Its possible. Will it be done . To be seen. What are the markets truly reacting to . The uncertainty or fear of the outcome . Its a little bit of both. The fact of the matter is, the raw numbers are not big enough to really shake up an company as big as ours. Its somewhere between 0. 1 , best case, 1 . Weve dealt with worse things. But it comes at a time when theres a lot of other uncertainty. The Global Economy is rising. Housing market is slowing. The fiscal stimulus is fading. You layer on a lot of protectionism and tension. Its just an ugly mixture. All right, greg ip, good toe see you. I appreciate your exper these and per peck spif. Thank you, sir. Coming up, Robert Muellers message to members of the trump administration. Were going to break that down with tonights panel, coming up. It was the last song of the night. It felt like my heart was skipping beats. They said i had afib. Whats afib . I knew that meant i was at a greater risk of stroke. I needed answers. My doctor and i chose xarelto® to help keep me protected from a stroke. Oncedaily xarelto®, a latestgeneration blood thinner significantly lowers the risk of stroke in people with afib not caused by a heart valve problem. Warfarin interferes with at least 6 of your bodys natural bloodclotting factors. Xarelto® is selective, targeting just one critical factor. For afib patients well managed on warfarin, there is limited information on how xarelto® compares in reducing the risk of stroke. Dont stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase your risk of stroke. 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That service, and service in general, is an important word when youre talking about the bush family, honored, which, of course honored president bush as a war hero, a family man and president who understood what it means to be the custodian of the american democracy. Hundreds of dignitaries gathered today to pay their respects, including President Trump and the four living former president s, among them, of course, president george bush, who delivered one of four eulogies of the former president. So, through our tears, let us know the blessings of knowing and loving you, a great and noble man. The best father a son or daughter could have. And in our grief, knowing that dad is hugging robin and holding moms hand again. The most decent and honorable man i ever knew was my friend george bush. One of natures noblemen. His epitaph, perhaps just a single letter, the letter l, for loyalty. I believe it will be said that no occupant of the oval office was more courageous, more principled and more honorable than George Herbert walker bush. George Herbert Walker bush that survived that fiery fall into the waters of the pacific, threequarters of a century ago, made our lives and the lives of nati nations, freer, better, warmer and nobler. Sooner or later, we all sign up for medicare. And like my dad, you might want Medicare Supplement insurance, too. Uh oh, more research. No big thing. Not with this website. Unitedhealthcare Insurance Company created aarpmedicaresupplement. Com to give you answers about aarp Medicare Supplement insurance plans insured by unitedhealthcare Insurance Company. Like how this type of plan, also called a medigap plan, helps pay for some of what medicare doesnt. And how these plans are the only ones endorsed by aarp. Selected for meeting their high standards of quality and service. And with just your zip code find rates for the aarp Medicare Supplement plans in your area. Read about the key features of medigap plans, too. Including the freedom to choose any doctor who accepts medicare patients. So, if youre thinking about a medigap plan, this is a great place to start. Filled with great advice. Like your dad, right . Yeah, right. Welcome back. Time for the lid. Our panel is back. Maureen, i wanted you here, because i loved your piece about you and this president , president 41. You were the chief white house correspondent, right . Among them, during this era. I was, yes. I was one of them. Bob woodward always says, every president gets the psychoanalyst he deserves. And that was you . I guess it was, yeah. What was interesting about your relationship with him is that it wasnt mean, was it . If he had a problem with you, he didnt get angry. Yeah. It was like a sort of a 40s cr screwball comedy, like i was the gene about thank you working girl and he was the jimmy stewa stewart waspy rich guy. Without the romance, of course. I was all class rage and it was right at the gunning beginning the white male waspy pate yard can i was breaking up. And i think he thought he would have horatio hornblower iv drinking martinis and he got me calling him goofy and, you know my favorite story is he had he had to hide from his son that he went and snuck and had coffee with you. Oh, no, he wanted to have coffee with me and kennebunkport and he had karl rove call me to see if we could set it up, but it would have been like him and his secret Service Agents sneaking out to meet me at a coffee shop and avoiding w and his secret Service Agents, so, it was very complicated, but i loved this skull and bones, skull dugry of it, because he was the head of the cia and he still had a few tricks up his sleeve. Karen, i i am as i said, im in this split screen world, i dont want to let this day go with mueller and what were learning today on this front. What is your sense of the significance of where this is headed with mueller, especially when he puts in there, when you serve in office, you know, you got to be held to the highest standard, which phones more poignant today as we just said goodbye to one of americas, probably most famous public servants. Well, the significance i mean, to one of americas most famous public servants. Its one of trucks firmps acts was to go to james comey to tell him to let this case against anyone slidflynn slide. We have mueller saying keep him out of jail because hes cooperating. Were getting so much information out of him. As every one has said earlier, its all in the redactions here. It does seem like people who thought it was going to be over quickly that it was going to be something that trump could get past, i think arent thinking that today. Do you think its possible that the lawmakers that attended todays ceremony listened to what everybody was saying today . At the same time they are watching whats happening in realtime. They are seeing a man of bob muellers pedigree make this case that something is wrong here. Something smells. Were saying good bai bye to mo made integrity his lifelong mission. I think they were listening. Im not sure they found the courage to act. I think they know what the noble thing to do is. They are finding way to do it but they havent found the courage to do that yet. Maybe hes introducing a little courage too. Restraint and respect. Im not sure they got there on the restraint side and i still think they learning on the respect side. The story of an rnc chairman, george bush, basically not just being a knee jerk defender of nixon in that moment. That in itself today would be considered courageous. Thats right. Its worth remembering that mueller is from bushs world. St. Paul School Athlete of the year. Princeton marine corps officer. University of virginia law school, the thiwhole thing. The biggest puzzle to me and maybe someone has intuitions about it is the whole mueller probe. He got 16 hard charging, type a personalities to get off their fast tracks and lucrative careers to come here. He didnt say come on down were going to indict someone called papadopoulos. He told them theres something here. He must have enticed them with that. Second thing that puzzles me and nothing hes done so far with the redactions clears this up. We know what the russians warranted to do. They wanted to sow salt in our social wounds and make them worse and they wanted mr. Trump to get elected. They did not need to collude with his campaign. They were much more professional about this than his campaign ever could have been. I think hes onto something else. It does seem as if when you look at what Michael Flynn was doing with the country of turkey while also advising an incoming president of the United States, that to me is where this probe gets much more, i think, troublesome for other people around this president. Yeah. Mueller reminds me of the guy in the white hat hunting Butch Cassidy and the sun dance kid. He keeps coming and they keep turning around going who is that guy. He keeps coming. Bush senior loved and respected institutions and trump doesnt. When trump was going to fire comey, they said you can fire comey but the investigation goes on and trump didnt understand. He thought if you just fired one man, it would be over. He doesnt even fathom, i think, the trajectory of whats happening. I would argue thats been part of the problem, for instance w this iss instance, with this issue of china. He thinks everything is a two bit real estate deal and hes more overmatched that he is fully appreciative. Whether its mueller or the chinese. In part because hes also a real estate deal and he sees it as a branding exercising. As long as he keeps declaring theres a victory here that people will believe it. The fact is that the economy, the world economy, doesnt operate according to slogans and nor do criminal investigations. Andy, i want to close with this final thought that we were discussing. Theres a lot of things were praising george h. W. Bush at the time was ordinary. Working across the aisle. I think it says more about the time. The mob is much closer to the rule today because of the internet. Many more decisions are made out of emotion rather than logic and judgment. Theres nothing we can do about it. It used to be that if youre angry with a congressman, you sent them a letter and it took seven days to get there and would be in the staff and you get the answer. A thoughtful answer would go out. Today you get a tweet and youre expected to respond to the emotion of the tweet with the same level of emotion and you do and you get stuck on stupid and you cant change. I think about whats happening to the french. Theres this protest. Its succeeded but they dont know who to negotiate with. Its literally, who is the leader of this movement. They dont know. This goes to what youre saying. Its mob rule. Find someone in yellow vest in france and try to make that person a leader. Its very difficult. The only thing worse is a mob with no head. Thank you all for spending time. Ill be right back. Over 100 years ago, we were talking about the model t. Now here we are talking about winning the most jd power iqs and appeal awards. Talking about Driverassist Technology talking about cars that talk and listen. Talking about the highest Customer Loyalty in the country. But thats enough talking. Seriously. That was a lot of talking. Back to building that was a lot of talking. Got it . Got it. Nooooo. Nooooo. Quick, the quicker picker upper bounty picks up messes quicker and is 2x more absorbent. Bounty, the quicker picker upper. And just like you, the further into winter we go, the heavier i get. And while your pants struggle to support the heavier you, your roof struggles to support the heavier me. Crash and your cutrate insurance might not pay for this. So get allstate, you could save money and be better protected from mayhem like me. Mayhem is everywhere. So get an allstate agent. Are you in good hands . Unstopand its strengthenedting place, the by xfi pods,gateway. Which plug in to extend the wifi even farther, past anything that stands in its way. Well almost anything. Leave no room behind with xfi pods. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Click or visit a retail store today. Thats all for tonight. Well be back tomorrow with more mtp daily. President bush has just landed in houston. The beat with ari melber starts now. We have a lot of big stories. Bob mueller sending a clear message, tell the truth and ill tell the judge to go a lot easier. A top democrat joins me from the Senate Judiciary committee discussing roger stone invoking the fifth. The seen at president bushs funeral. Donald trump greeting this man he accused of illegally wiretapping and another opponent he tried to have investigated and indicted. Bob mueller telling convicts they will be spared prison time if they testify honestly while donald trump has been doing something quite remarkable