Transcripts For MSNBCW MTP Daily 20160215

South carolina. The state capital. And as you have no doubt seen the feuds brewing on the campaign trail, boiling over bigtime at saturdays Republican Debate here in the palmetto state, and then today, well, they outright exploded. In just under an hour from now, former president george w. Bush is due to hit the president ial campaign trail, for the first time in over a decade. A rally with his brother, jeb. Remember, george w. Bush wasnt a presence, physically, at least, on the trail when mitt romney and john mccain were running. As bush 43 hopes to stump for the man he hopes will be bush 54, donald trump is lashing out yet again at the former president and his record. If the expresident is campaigning for his brother, i think hes probably open to great scrutiny. Maybe things that havent been thought of in the past. The whole thing starts with the war in iraq. If the president went to the beach, we would have been better off, believe me. And that is just a small taste of the tough talk today. More to come later on in the show, as we preview george w. Bushs big return to the campaign trail. Again, less than an hour from now. But, we start tonight first with the entire political world reeling from the sudden and unexpected death of Supreme Court justice antonin scalia. On saturday morning, the 79yearold conservative justice was found dead in his room at a hunting resort in remote west texas. Officials say scalia died of natural causes. Youre looking now at pictures of scalias body arriving back in virginia late last night. The tragedy has quickly given way to chaos, confusion, and anger, both in washington and on the campaign trail over the question of what exactly happens next. Simply put, we are now in uncharted territory in Election Year politics. Especially in an election like this one. Heres where we stand at this hour. As both sides sound their battle cries on an issue that, quite frankly, no one expected to ignite a firestorm quite like this. We have heard from president obama, the president says he fully intends to nominate a successor. I plan to fulfill my Constitutional Responsibilities to nominate a successor in due time. There will be plenty of time for me to do so, and for the senate to fulfill its responsibility to give that person a fair hearing and a timely vote. And weve heard from republicans. Theyre promising a war if he goes through with that promise. I think its up to Mitch Mcconnell and everybody else to stop it. Its called delay, delay, delay. [ applause ] there is no way the senate should confirm anyone that barack obama tries to appoint in his last year in office to a lifetime appointment. Theyre not going to confirm anybody. Unless they unless they pick somebody whos so beloved that everybody goes, thats great, okay . I dont think thats going to happen. And today, here in South Carolina, ted cruz escalated this fight, describing it as a doomsday scenario for conservatives. We are one justice away from losing our fundamental rights in this country. Were one justice away from a radical fivejustice liberal majority, that would effectively write the Second Amendment out of the constitution. We are one justice away from a radical fivejustice liberal majority that would mandate unlimited abortion on demand, including partial birth, with government funding and no restrictions, whatsoever. And for his part, donald trump telling reporters today in South Carolina that republicans should reject any nominee obama puts forward. They are all following the leader of the republican senate. Mitch mcconnell, who says there will be no action in the senate on any obama nominee. And that has spurred a furious reaction from democrats on the campaign trail as well. It appears that some of my republican colleagues in the senate have a very interesting view of the constitution of the United States. Barack obama is president of the United States until january 20th, 2017. That is a fact, my friends, whether the republicans like it or not. And the top democrat on the Senate Judiciary committee is calling it the height of irresponsibility if republicans try to run out the clock on president obama. It would be the height of the irresponsibility for the Republican Leadership not to have a vote on a nominee from the president. This country has not gone with a yearlong vacancy on the Supreme Court since the civil war. Yet weve had numerous vacancies filled in the final year of the president s term. Right now the ball is in president obamas court. He will try to set the tone for this battle. And we now know that the president will have a press conference on tuesday afternoon. You can expect this topic to be central to that. But exactly who is on his short list . Well, dozens of names is have already been floated, but this hour, one of those names does stand out. The publisher of the highly regarded scotusblog, which monitors the court, writes that, quote, at this point, i think that attorney general Loretta Lynch is the most likely candidate. Tom goldstein from scotusblog also notes that lynch has already been vetted very recently. And as a woman of color, she would represent two key democratic voting blocs. Here to help us sort through this tangled web of law and politics and passion, im joined by nbc news justice correspondent, pete williams. So, pete, this is an interesting one, because the democrats can argue, the white house can certainly argue, look, the president has the constitutional obligation to put Forward Nominees and the republicans can argue, its not etched in stone anywhere that the senate has to do anything. Theyre both right. There is the white house says this afternoon that there is ample precedent, is the way, i think, they put it, or clear precedence for Supreme Court nominees being confirmed in president ial Election Years and thats true. But theres a lot of way to slice these numbers. If you look at, for example, nominees in the middle of a president s term, fdr, eisenhow eisenhower, woodrow wilson, that leads you in one direction. If you look at nominations by president s who were, in essence, in their final year in office and knew it, in other words, with didnt run for reelection and lose, its a smaller number, but it certainly has happened. The white house says that the administration is reaching out to people on both sides of the aisle in the senate. We know that to be true, that white house officials have called folks on the Senate Judiciary committee, that are both republicans and democrats to say, how can we get this done . Pete williams, stay with us for a minute. Were going to bring in some experts here. I want you to help me out with that. Well bring in two veteran legal minds on this. They disagree on who should be filling this vacancy. John yoo was a top official in george w. Bushs department of justice. He teaches at berkeley and thinks barack obama should not make an appointment. And harvard law professor Charles Ogletree was one of the president s teachers at harvard and says there should be an appointment this year. Let me ask you both to defend this. John, let me start with you. Heres the basic argument, im sure youve heard it. What is your argument against this idea . The president was reelected to a fouryear term, 48 months in four years. There are still 11 months left on his term, that is not an inconsequential number. Why shouldnt the dually elected president with a year left on his term get to pick a Court Nominee . Well, president obama can nominate someone, but the constitution vests the power to complete it to appoint the officer in both the president and the senate. The senate has its right to give its advice and consent. The constitution doesnt say anywhere that the senate has to give it. And i think, in fact, if you look at the federalist papers about the people who designed the appointment process, they expected the senate to use its power to fight and struggle with the president. So i disagree i dont think the president is prohibited from nominating someone. In fact, i fully expect him to and it is his constitutional responsibility to. But the senate that has no duty at all to confirm, vote up, vote down or confirm anybody. In fact, the framers wanted the senate, if they disagreed with the president s constitutional views on many matters, as the majority does on things like immigration and so on, it actually should vote not to confirm anybody, until the next election, which is just in a few months. And karlis, i would like you to respond to the argument that john just made, keeping this in mind. So john is saying, look, the president can appoint can nominate somebody. The senate has no obligation to act on that. Keeping in mind that ten years ago, when president george w. Bush nominated samuel alito to the Supreme Court, then senator barack obama participated in a filibuster, attempting to even keep a vote from happening on sam alitos nomination. So if as a senator, the president didnt think a vote should be happening on sam alito, why is it so outrageous from republicans now in the senate say, were not going to have a vote on his nominee . Let me say a little word about john yoo. I respect his point of view and i think hes put a very clear point on it. But the reality is, i had the pleasure and the honor of having barack obama as a student. Hes an independent person. Hes going to nominate the best person that he thinks can take the job and do the job. And i think thats going to be great. I think Loretta Lynch is a talented person and he should be considering her. Im thinking the people on the court now, im thinking of people like Kamala Harris in california, im thinking of people like Robert Wilkins on the d. C. Circuit. There is a slew of people i want to say that, you know, we have to do that. But i want to also give condolences to former Supreme Court justice, how much he meant to us. He came to harvard many times, hes a graduate of harvard. Theres a series in his honor. And i think the reality is, nobody will be able to take the office if they dont have, in a sense, some of the values that Justice Scalia made clear. And i think that can i just ask you, though, in terms of this political battle were seeing play out, the republicans are saying the white house has no business in obstructing a nominee that the president puts forward, but im asking if the president , as a senator, participating in a filibuster against a dually elected president s nominee to the Supreme Court, did the president not help lay the groundwork for the republicans obstructing him on this . He might have. But the constitution is the controlling document. And everybody has to follow the constitution. Whether youre a republican or democrat or independent, it doesnt matter. The constitution has the rules. We follow it, everybody should have the constitution. Its available people can read it. I think that the president has the right to do what the constitution says he has a right to do. And i think that well see a nominee come out pretty soon. And i think the senate will have to pass that nominee, and if they dont, then well just go to the next battle. Yeah, pete williams, youre Still Standing by. I know you want to get in. Go ahead. I was just going to say, the practical consequences of this are, obviously, that the Supreme Court will not be at the full strength of nine justices for the rest of this term, even if everybody agrees that this nomination and confirmation process should happen in the best of times, it would take longer than that. But if theres no nominee confirmed this year, then that means the court would not only finish this term, it would also start next term, and probably get most of the way through next term before there is a full complement of nine. Now, that doesnt bring the Supreme Court to a halt. It can do most of its business with eight justices, but its hard to answer the really difficult questions that divide the court 54. And thats the practical side of this. And john, following up on that, in terms of the Practical Implications of what youre arguing, if we now have an election, if this vacancy is not filled this year and this becomes a central issue in the campaign, who gets to appoint the next Supreme Court justice, and your party does not win this election, if, say, Hillary Clinton is elected as the next president , are you prepared to live with the consequences that then she may feel emboldened as a new president to say, hey, i ran on getting a liberal Supreme Court nominee through and put through a nominee who might be more liberal than everybody president obama would put forward now . Thats a good point. First let me say that when senator mcconnell and chairman grassley in the senate are saying the republicans wont confirm anyone this year, theyre taking a gamble, because they could try to reach a deal with president obama now. In fact, i think the incentive to do that is greater and greater, the more likely it looks like Hillary Clinton, or in their view, god for bid Bernie Sanders were to win, they would get a nominee that was probably far more liberal than they would get with president obama. But i dont think its a big harm to the court for there to be only eight justices. Justices often recuse themselves from cases. The number of justices is not constitutionally set. There were only six at the beginning of the country. It has fluctuated off and on. Most of the cases, as pete said, will just get returned to the lower court, and the Lower Court Opinions would stand. I, for one, dont want the Supreme Court rushing in to always decide the latest controversial issues. Its not going to be the end of the world if immigration, abortion, affirmative action waits a year or two to get decided. I would like the Supreme Court be much more modest in their eagerness to decide all of these questions and take them out of the political process. Let the court sit around for a year and be more of a minimalist body for a little while until theres a ninth justice. But theyre taking historically low rates of cases as it is. So i dont think we should be i dont think we should be distracted by claims that the workload of the court will be too hard or it cant function with only eight justices. Charles ogletree, what do you say to that . The idea, let the court slow down for a year if thats what it means . You know, i think john woo has some good points, but hes wrong about this. The reality is, the court has to function and i think theyll have to confirm a nominee. I think president obama has to appoint a nominee. And i think that we as people in the senate had to and people of congress, people of community, have to read what it means to be a Supreme Court justice and how we have the right to understand the constitution and how it has to be applied. I think its very important that we have this debate and this discussion, but i think the reality is that now is the time and now is the opportunity to appoint somebody to fill the vacancy of Justice Scalia, a great man. Im sorry that we lost him. Who authored many opinions and he was a leader of the republican party. But i think that when you think about it, we need to have nine justices on the Supreme Court, as we now require, and i think that filling that position will be the right thing to do. All right. Pete williams, quickly, last word to you. Just to say that no matter what should happen, we know what will happen. The Supreme Court will begin the busiest part of its terms with only eight justices. The first time its faced that in 50 years. All right. So much in the Supreme Court and law, i guess, is about precedent. But for the politics of this, there is no precedent. Were about to have a modern campaign that is defined largely by a Supreme Court nomination. Anyone, pete williams, john yoo, appreciate it. And coming up, donald trump continues to hammer almost everyone after saturdays explosive debate. So why does he spend so much time trashing the bush ifs he doesnt think jeb is a threat. And Hillary Clinton goes for gold in the silver state. Shes live right now at the university of nevada reno, home of the wolf pack. Well see how shes stepping up her campaign in nevada ahead of this weekends democratic caucuses. What happens when lobster gets grilled, baked, and paired with even more lobster . You get hungry. And you count the seconds until red lobsters lobsterfest is back with the largest variety of lobster dishes of the year. 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During storm season we want our customers to be ready and stay safe. Learn how you can be prepared at pge. Com beprepared. Together, were building a better california. Right now, a crowd in North Charleston, South Carolina, is gearing up for one of the most anticipated Campaign Events of this election season. Former president george w. Bush will be taking to the stage there less than an hour from now, making his case for his brother, jebs white house bid. Keep it here for more mtp daily live from South Carolina. With my moderate to severe ulcerative colitis, the possibility of a flare was almost always on my mind. Thinking about what to avoid, where to go. And how to deal with my uc. To me, that was normal. Until i talked to my doctor. She told me that humira helps people like me get uc under control and keep it under control when certain medications havent worked well enough. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. 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I said, the World Trade Center came down during your brothers reign. The exclamation point didnt work, so now hes using bush. But i think he should have used his name. I think it shows that he wasnt proud of the family. The former president will join his brother on the stump tonight for the first time this campaign, but trumps harsh words loom over his return to the campaign trail. Trump says bush doesnt have a chance of becoming president , and he says ted cruz doesnt have the right to become president. Trump erupting today over comments from cruz about Supreme Court justice nominations. He just gets up and says, if donald trump gets in, hes going to appoint liberal judges. Thats the opposite. Hes a liar. Hell go up and absolutely lie. Hell apologize, but i dont want an apology after the election, i want the apology before. And if he doesnt, im going to bring a lawsuit, because in my opinion, based on what ive learn offered the last two or three days from very top lawyers, he doesnt even have the right to serve as president or even run as president. He was born in canada. And congressman mark meadows of North Carolina is a ted cruz supporter and joins me now. Thank you for taking the time. Great to be with you. So we hear candidates call their opponents liars all the time. But when donald trump makes that charge, he keeps bringing up iowa, ben carson, the communications from the Cruz Campaign telling people maybe carsons getting out of this race. Do you think that, what happened in iowa, is making that attack from donald trump more impactful here in South Carolina . Well, thats not what im hearing here in South Carolina. I just came from akin, on my way to florence, South Carolina, to meet with grassroots activists. And really, what happens is, when someone doesnt have a record to run on, they dont have policy to support, they holler, liar, liar, liar. What the South Carolinanessians americans across the country want is a real plan on how it affects them on main street. Moms and dads. You know, whats going to happen with our National Security. And so, you know, when we hear that kind of campaign rhetoric, and thats what it is. Its campaign rhetoric. I think the American People want a real plan. So what happened to for months in this campaign, the story was, donald trump is attacking everybody, except for ted cruz. Yep. And ted cruz is not attacking donald trump. What happened . Well, i dont think he saw ted cruz as a threat. And as the polls get closer, obviously, the focus now has become on senator ted cruz. But its been all over, from carlys face now to teds position on immigration. Its interesting to see that one thing has been consistent. Is donald continues to attack. You know, we want a commander in chief, not an insulter in chief. And what were finding here is that this same pattern of lashing out is not going to be rewarded by the people here in South Carolina. Do you think so, though . Because hes been doing this for a while now. He won New Hampshire big. Didnt win iowa, but he came close. I heard people saying, you cant campaign for president this way and win. Hes gotten a lot farther than we thought he would. He certainly has. But when you blame the twin towers coming down on george w. Bush, instead of the rightful people, islamic extremists, i mean, youre going too far. And i think the donald has gone too far on that particular one. Obviously, it wasnt our president s fault. It was him who, you know, he stepped in to make sure were all safe and secure and i think thats what the next commander in chief needs to do. I believe ted cruz are do that. Final question for you, quick. Is South Carolina mustwin for ted cruz . Its not a mustwin, but certainly we would like to win it. The trending right now is looking very favorable for us. So i think saturday will be a good day for the senator. Congressman mark meadows, thank you for joining us. Appreciate it. Now lets turn to the Trump Campaign and katrina pearson, the National Spokesperson for the Trump Campaign joins us now from dallas. So katrina, i dont know if you just heard the conversation i was having with congressman meadows here, a supporter of ted cruz, but hes saying, look, you cant say the kinds of things that donald trump is saying about the iraq war, about george w. Bush and expect to win a republican primary, especially in a state like South Carolina. Did your candidate hurt himself at all with the things hes been saying since saturday . No, not at all. And im a big fan of congressman meado meadows. And ill say this. Theres two things i thought should be addressed. Number one, mr. Trump doesnt have a record. He hasnt written on east side writing a Supreme Court justice. How is he out there painting Donald Trumps record if it doesnt exist . Number one. Number two, donald trump didnt say that the twin towers coming down was george bushs fault. He said george bush didnt keep us safe, and there are thousands of families that would agree with that. But i will have to define safe for you. Donald trumps measure of safety is very different than the bushs. Donald trump wants a border wall. He wants to stop illegal immigration. He wants to deport illegal le aliens. There are a number of things that donald trump would determine tor safe that the bushes just didnt quite agree at that time. Can i press you on that . Sure. You say hes not blaming george w. Bush, but he is saying that george w. Bush didnt keep us safe. So it sounds like he is saying, there are things that george w. Bush could and should have done would have prevented the twin towers from falling. Well, we dont know for sure if it could have been prevented, but what we do know is that the hijackers did come into this country on visas from hostile territories. We know that one was here on an expired visa and we know they trained in florida under jeb bushs watch to take down those towers. We were not tracking those people and thats a problem. Thats one of the reasons donald trump got into this race, protecting our sovereignty from radical islamic extremists. So to Donald Trumps point of safety, hes absolutely right. Katrina pearson with the Trump Campaign, appreciate you taking some time with us. And after Donald Trumps attacks on george w. Bush, marco rubio came to the former president s defense at saturdays debate. I just want to say, at least on behalf of me and my family, i thank god all the time that it was george w. Bush in the white house on 9 11 and not al gore. And jason row, Senior Adviser to the Marco Rubio Campaign joins me now. Jason, thanks for taking a few minutes. Weve been talking about this a lot today. Donald trump is opening up an debate here we havent heard on the republican side since the iraq war, since the bush presidency. Im curious, how much of a market do you think there is for somebody like donald trump, basically saying, this is a war republicans should never have supported in the first place. Well, i dont really think theres a market for donald trump, but i do think theres a market for marco rubio, because of all the candidates running. I think hes the best prepared to deal with the issues that were now talking about, because of trump popping off on this issue. Hes been on the Senate Intelligence committee and the Senate Foreign Relations Committee now for five years. And i think hes firsthand dealt with and seen the threats to the United States and what weve got to deal with at the federal level to keep america safe. And if you take all the other candidates, put together, day donate have as much Foreign Policy experience as marco rubio does. So i think its a real opportunity for marco to demonstrate how prepared he is to lead the country as commander in chief. But are you concerned and is there a risk that he sort of gets lost in the shuffle here . Donald trump makes the comments about iraq, about george w. Bush, and whos in town today . Its george w. Bush. It almost becomes a fight between two different visions, the donald trump vision, and the george w. Bush vision. Its hard to break through that, isnt it . While these guys are throwing sticks and tostones at each oth, well go through a day or two of looking at whats happening today, between the theatrics of trump and bush coming to stump for his brother. As voters have talked about these issues and thinking about these threats, who of this crowd is best prepared to lead us as commander in chief. And when we start to listen to the particular issues and the preparedness of the candidates that will be on the ballot on saturday, i think marco rubio will stand head and shoulders above the rest of the pack. Big picture here, what is the strategy for rubio . Hes not come in, in the top two. Where is the breakthrough . Is is South Carolina the breakthrough state for marco rubio . I dont know if i would call it the breakthrough state. Right now only 2 of the delegates have even cast votes or been awarded. When South Carolina is done, it will only be 4 of those. I think we expect to do well and i believe hell be in the top tier. I think its a real opportunity to show. I think really the person who has the most at stake is jeb bush. South carolina has been very good to bush 41 and bush 43. The Bush Campaigns have a lot at stake here. And i think if he doesnt perform well, its going to throw a real wrench into the do you think hes out of the race if hes not top two . I think its very difficult to make the case he can continue if he cant win in a family has historically done well and a state where hes bringing the former president in to stump for him. With all that going, if he doesnt do very well, i think it will be very difficult. Jason row with the rubio campaign, thanks for joining us. And were just over 30 minutes away now from the start of that big rally. Both of the bush brothers, the former president , the former florida governor, the current president ial candidates. Well go there live in a few minutes to hear from a senior Bush Campaign adviser who knows exactly how things work, for better or for worse, here in South Carolina. And coming up, Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton have something new to agree on. They both say president obama should nominate a new Supreme Court justice. But that doesnt mean their fight is dying down one bit. Were going to hear from both supporters on both sides. Right now, Hillary Clinton is at a Womens Health event at the university of nevada. Stay tuned. I know how it is. Youre all set to book a flight using your Airline Credit card miles. And surprise those seats sometimes cost a ridiculous number of miles, making it really hard to book the flight you want. Luckily, theres a better way. With the capital one venture card. With venture, youll earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, every day. And when youre ready to travel, just book the flight you want, on any airline, then use your miles to cover the cost. Now youre getting somewhere. Whats in your wallet . Only glucerna has carbsteady, diabetes, steady is exciting. Clinically proven to help minimize blood sugar spikes. So you stay steady ahead. The nissan rogue. With the power and performance of our intuitive allwheel drive. Now get a 189 per month lease on the 2016 nissan rogue. We are following all the Campaign Action live from South Carolina. Right now, Hillary Clinton is headed to her third event of the day across the country in reno, nevada. Were going to check in with the clinton and Sanders Campaigns ahead. And just about 30 minutes from now, jeb bush will be campaigning with his brother. The former president , george w. Bush, in North Charleston, South Carolina. Msnbc will have full coverage of that event at 6 00 p. M. Eastern. Stay tuned. Welcome to opportunitys knocking, where selfproclaimed financial superstars pitch you investment opportunities. Ive got a fantastic deal for you gold with the right pool of investors, theres a lot of money to be made. But first, investors must ask the right questions and use the smartcheck challenge to make the right decisions. Youre not even registered; im done with you i can. I can. Savvy investors check their financial pros background by visiting smartcheck. Gov wont keep you up at night. 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To my colleagues in the United States senate. You talk about the constitution a whole lot. Well, how about owbeying the constitution and Start Holding hearings when president obama nominates the next Supreme Court justice . Both Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders on the campaign trail today, standing firmly behind president obama on the question of his ability to nominate a new justice to the Supreme Court this year. Former president bill clinton, yes, that makes two former president s on the trail today. Bill clinton also sounding off on the Supreme Court seat, while stumping in florida earlier this afternoon. This is an important election. So important as we saw yesterday with the untimely passing of Justice Scalia, it wasnt 30 seconds before the Senate Republican leader said, president obama can forget about getting a replacement. Were not going to do it. And Hillary Clinton just finished a Womans Health event at the university of nevada reno. This her second of three stops in nevada today. As she tries to wrap up the state head of the caucuses there, just five days from now. And joining me now is clinton supporter and former South Carolina governor, jim hodges. Governor, we switched places, i guess, youre in new york and im down in your place. Not sure how that happened. Let me ask you this, secretary clinton has made a lot of news in the last few days starting at that last debate where she called Bernie Sanders a singleissue candidate. Heres what im curious to get your take on as a Hillary Clinton supporter. You look at the enthusiasm behind Bernie Sanders campaign. Look at the support from young voters. The people hes got energized by his message. Even if Hillary Clinton does defeat him and does win the democratic nomination. Does she risk right now with these attacks on Bernie Sanders, does she risk turning off those voters who shell need to rally around her in the fall . Steve, i dont think. I think that those voters will embrace the Hillary Clinton message and campaign, because the alternative is someone like ted cruz or donald trump, and i think either of those candidates would be pretty darned unattractive, particularly when you look at what is attracting them to Bernie Sanders. Shes going to be able to consolidate that support and do very well with those voters. Has it surprised you . I mean, i guess if wed been having this conversation a year ago and i had told you, iowa is practically a tie. See ekes out a win. New hampshire, the state she won in 2008, New Hampshire is a 21point loss for her. And were now staring at nevada and we dont know whats going to happen there. What would you have said a year ago, if i told you that would be the state of her campaign right now . Well, politics has been turned upside down this year, both on the democratic and republican side. Soy suppose nothing surprises me. But the truth i think that the truth will be told here in the next month. Youve got both the South Carolina and nevada primaries and then during march, you have states, i think, that are much more demographically representative, not only of the democratic party, but of the country. And i think hillary will do very well in those places. Lets talk at the end of march and see where we are. I think youll see that she will enjoy a Comfortable Lead and will be in the position to get the nomination. Well, obviously, you know your state well, you know it a little better than i do, just getting here today. But weve seen the polls that show Hillary Clinton with a really strong advantage here in South Carolina, particularly among black voters. Her campaign, as soon as that result became clear in New Hampshire, her campaign was out with this long memo saying, basically, we are much better set up in South Carolina. How firm is her grip on democrats in South Carolina right now . Very firm. There was a poll out the other day that had her up by nearly 40 points. I think all the polls have shown her very strong. And i doubt shes going to be able to win by that number. But the demographics really favor her in our state. You have an older electorate. You also have a large africanamerican population, and you have a lot of moderate voters. And all of those things, i think, favor Hillary Clinton. But most importantly, she has a message that resonates. And that is building upon the success of president obama and trying to build upon that and make sure that the country maintains a democratic presidency. I think thats a very compelling message for voter who is love barack obama in our state, and those that understand what its like to have one party rule. In our state, you have republican control and weve had restrictions on voting rights. We have no medicaid expansion. You know, our voters arent going to throw their vote away. Theyre going to make sure they placed it with a candidate they think can actually win in the fall. Jim hodges, former governor of South Carolina, thanks for taking a few minutes. Thanks, steve. And i would like to bring in state representative Terry Alexander joins me in columbia. You just heard the former governor. He said Hillary Clintons grip on your state is very firm. Weve seen her ahead in these polls 25, 30, 35 points. What do you say to that . Well, when i joined the Bernie Sanders campaign, he was at 9 in the state of South Carolina. And that was in october. Now were somewhere near 40 . And we must remember that senator sanders dont neat 60 of the africanamerican voter to win. Possibly Hillary Clinton needs 60 , at least what does he need . Probably about 30 to 35 of the africanamerican. What do you think hes at right now . 20 to 25 and closing that gap real, real where is that gain coming from . Is there a generational divide. We saw this in iowa and New Hampshire i think its both. I think so its a generational divide and also the message that senator sanders is presenting as well. There is a generational gap. Folks want a change. How were doing business in this country just not working for the millennial and those who have been a part of it. Were trying to move away from this traditional way of doing business. And Bernie Sanders presents that in terms of, from a revolutionary standpoint. And everybody wants change, but nobody wants to change. But i think you see the young folks and millennials and some elderly folks as well that are jumping on the bandwagon and theyre burning down that firewall here in South Carolina. So tell me what happened. Because, again, im coming from outside the state. But i remember 2008. I remember Hillary Clinton versus barack obama, and i remember how the black Community Rallied around barack obama in the state. That was part of it. The other part of it was, we were told at the end of that 2008 campaign that bill clinton in particular had permanently alienated himself with the black community in South Carolina, with the way he campaigned against barack obama. And by extension, that went to Hillary Clinton as well. And yet, here we are in 2016. And you guys with the Sanders Campaign are facing what is still a pretty formidable lead for the clintons among black voters. Where did that how did they recover . Its interesting. I was a Hillary Clinton supporter. I was one of three black elected officials, house members, who supported hillary against obama. I saw how this whole thing transformed. I think what senator clinton has going for her is her name, not necessarily her policies. Not necessarily what she stands for, but the bill clinton name is whats running this state. Not hillary wasnt that tarnished with black voters in 2008 . Well, black folks are some forgiving history. When you look at the history of us in this country. We are forgiving folk. Were forgiving. But i can tell you this, with a ninepoint margin, a plus or minus, thats almost a tie here in the state of who would have thought about that three, four months ago. That Bernie Sanders would have been this close, and its not over yet, either. All right, Terry Alexander with the Sanders Campaign, appreciate that. And stay tuned to msnbc tonight at 7 00 p. M. , Hillary Clinton joins my colleague, chris matthews, for a oneonone interview. Youre not going to want to miss that one. And well be right back. He has a sharp wit. A winning smile. And no chance of getting an athletic scholarship. And that is why you invest. The best returns arent just measured in dollars. Incredible bladder prthat lets from always diyou move like you mean it now comes with an incredible promise. The always discreet double your money back guarantee. Always discreet is for bladder leaks and its drier than poise. Try it. 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Nellia with national review. George w. Bush, we havent seen him on the campaign trail for a decadeplus right now. This could hurt donald trump, but would it help jeb bush . Thats an open question. On the one hand hes very popular in South Carolina. On the other hand, jeb bush has been trying to escape his family, and i think in the debate, when you saw him talking about his mother, his father, his brother, jeb has been saying, you know, hes his own man. It doesnt necessarily help him to constantly be talking about his family members. But i do have to say, i think Donald Trumps remarks about george w. Bush is an indication of george w. Bush in the way that he did, definitely hurt donald trump. For all the posits hes been able to utter, i think this one actually hurt him. If it hurts him, is there a clear beneficiary there, or cruz gets some, rubio gets some, bush gets some . Im not sure that jeb is necessarily the beneficiary of that. My guess is that it probably resounds to rubio, bush, cruz, yeah, im not quite sure about that. Hogan, theres the attacks on george w. Bush in the iraq war from trump. But also, there was a moment in the debate where jeb is talking about, i love my father, my mother, and trump got a little line, and he said, maybe she should be running. Trump has been effective at this idea of chipping away at the thing that jeb bush is planting this. Absolutely. In South Carolina, george w. Bush is extremely popular. Thats no secret. We all like him here. Part of the reason why is we helped make him. He lost in New Hampshire. He came to South Carolina and we help him on to victory. Does that mean the love of george w. Bush helps and impacts jeb . Does he get those votes . At the very least, its net neutral. But i think it is a net positive. We remember him very fondly here. George bushs spending is one of the reasons we have the tea party today, why we rejected him toward the end of his candidacy. This reputation of South Carolina as the place that rescued bob dole, rescued george bush, and mccain, 2012 it went for newt gingrich. The rnc and dnc either chose to ignore or just completely missed the fact that the people are so very angry. They want nothing to do with anything, any person that has to do with washington, d. C. And you see that in the rise of someone like Bernie Sanders, you see that with the outsiders on the republican side, like donald trump. A complete whiff on the Party Establishment folks, not understanding how angry people are. And theyre angry at washington because of money. The two messages from donald trump and Bernie Sanders diametrically opposed, theyre saying one think, washington is basically a strip club, whoever the donors give the money to, thats who does the dance. If youre in office, youre doing whatever they want you to do. Thats why nothing changes. Both of them are saying it. They dont have to do what the donor wants them to do so the Little People get a say. Thats somebody the rnc and dnc completely missed on. Donald trump, im still hearing this, talking to a lot of representatives for the other campaigns today. The Kasich Campaign is, they want to do well, look i ahead to michigan. Maybe theres this battle between bush and rubio, whoever does better here can move on. Theres these longterm games being played. If donald trump who just won New Hampshire in a landslide, if he comes into South Carolina and wins big, does that effectively end the race . I dont think so. Its important to know, yes, republicans are looking for an outsider. But donald trump has 30 of the voters. The most Republican Voters say they could never support him. Also, republicans say the same thing about jeb bush. There are a host of other candidates garnering a lot of support in the state right now, ted cruz, marco rubio, john kasich. Its if they do well here, and ted cruz and rubio and jeb are all doing well, donald trump but do you see thats what benefits trump ultimately. If they all do well, and none of them jump out of the pack and catch trump, trump is the main beneficiary. Ultimately i think trump is going to come up against a wall of opposition. There are just too many republicans who will never get behind him. Do you see that happening . Not necessarily. Look, heres the deal. If trump has 30 , youre right, 70 of the people reject trump. But that means 80 of the people reject cruz and 90 of the people reject everybody else. I think those votes disperse and i think a lot of people will gravitate to donald trump, because the momentum would be huge for him to to use a trump phrase, to come off of how well he did in iowa, and to do well in New Hampshire, with a large evangelical population, he would be difficult to stop moving through the south. Were up against a hard break. Thank you both for joining us. 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The struggling campaign of jeb bush is hoping for a lifeline from his brother, former president george w. Bush. An estimated 2,500 people waiting for all of this to get going any minute now. This is the first time 43 has been on the 2016 campaign trail. And it couldnt come at a more critical time. Jeb bush is tied for last place in a sixman race in the latest cnn poll. In spite of his low poll