Own administration over targeting iranian cultural sites. What the state department and pentagon have to say about the president s threats. And we are one week away from the next democratic president ial debate. And a number of candidates making the stage is set to shrink even further. Dnc chairperson tom perez will join us live to talk all things 2020. All right. Today, the secretary of state mike pompeo faced questions regarding the decision to kill the iranian general Qassem Soleimani. Again, refusing to lay out the specifics behind the intelligence that reportedly drove the decision to kill the general. So if youre looking for evidence, you need to look no further than the days that led up to the strike that was taken against soleimani. And then you, in addition to that, have what we can clearly see were continuing efforts on behalf of this terrorist to build out a network of Campaign Activities that were going to lead, potentially, to the death of many more americans. Well, earlier today, National Security advisor Robert Obrien spoke outside the white house. And while he also wouldnt elaborate on the intelligence, he did reveal more about the threat that soleimani apparently posed. He was plotting to kill to to attack american facilities and diplomat soldiers, sailors, marines were located at those facilities. Leader today, the Trump Administration is preparing to the gang of eight on the situation in iran. Tehran bureau chief and Senior Center at the center for american progress. Ali, u. S. Forces in the region and there are tens of thousands of them. Continue to prepare for a possible attack either by iran or one of its proxy forces. Whats the thinking now as far as you can determine in iran as to what retaliation looks like against the United States . Because weve heard lots of different variations on what could happen. What are the papers saying . What are people talking about in iran as to what and when retaliation happens . Hi, ali. Well, there is a palpable sense of retaliation in this country. Thats all you hear about these days. That iran is going to strike back. But that is the big question. Its not a question of if. But its a question of when and how . Now, iran has a whole host of options available to it. Most importantly, those proxies that theyve built up in this region. Qassem soleimani built up that are scattered across this entire region. And iran always says that those proxies are within immediate striking of u. S. Forces and u. S. Assets. They could also choke off oil in the strait of hormuz. Iran is also quite sophisticated in cyberwarfare. I mean, probably not at the level of china or russia. But nonetheless, theyre not far off. And they could launch cyberattacks. Theres also been talk of iran launching a direct military strike against the u. S. So they deliver an unquestionable message that this came from iran. That iran is powerful to do this itself. And they dont have to rely on their proxies to do this. Rather alarmingly, earlier on today, the kataib hezbollah, which was the Militia Group thats under irans patronage that attacked the u. S. Embassy in baghdad that sparked off this whole crisis said today that we are waiting for iran to strike directly, a military strike, directly against the United States. And then well follow suit. So there are all sorts of ominous messages here. And there also seems to be preparation underway for this. Today, in parliament in iran, they just okayed an extra 200 Million Euros for the quds force. Thats the International Arm of the irgc that Qassem Soleimani was the head of. That 200 Million Euros is for their next two months operation, in addition to whatever else their budget is. They also, in that same session of parliament, designated the u. S. Military and the pentagon as a terrorist group in order to justify any action they need to take. So tensions are really ratcheting up here. And, you know, the the the strange thing here is that iran, on an almost daily basis, is saying that u. S. Troops need to be expelled from this region. Yet, were seeing more and more troops come here. The u. S. Says that theyre not going to leave iraq. So these seem to be all the ingredients for a disaster in the making. But tensions are running high here. And emotions are running high here. Just to move slightly away from all the military action, talk of military action thats going on, just to show you how passionate people have been about the death of Qassem Soleimani. At his burial ceremony today in his hometown, hundreds of thousands of people showed up. It sparked off a stampede. 56 people have been killed in that stampede, including children. So i mean, theres a lot of emotion here. There is a lot of talk of war here. Passions are running high. And you do get the feeling amongst amongst a large Cross Section of iranians that they expect the leadership here to strike back at some point. We just dont know when or how. Michael, whats the significance of the United States blocking the Iranian Foreign minister from attending a meeting at the u. N. . Well, its huge. And its only going to make things worse. First, lets remember the United States actually has a responsibility as the host of the United Nations headquarters in new york to allow diplomats from all accredited United Nations countries to attend and access the u. N. Headquarters fal facilities. That is an obligation the United States has. So im not sure where its getting the justification to do this. But more to your point, right now, the United States needs to be looking for ways to deescalate. Everybody needs to be looking for ways to deescalate. As we just heard, there are incredibly dangerous and very real threats coming right now and the possibility for escalation is intense. Zarif coming to new york for a prearranged meeting that he was going to speak at at the United Nations is exactly the kind of opportunity that you could imagine quiet, backchannel conversations happening in a very, very high level to try to figure out if there is an off ramp to be had here. So why the Trump Administration would be blocking zarif from coming here is, frankly, anybodys guess. The only imaginary the only imagined thing i could think of is that they just are looking for more ways to provoke and prod the iranians right now. Ali arouzi, mike makes a really interesting point. At times like this when tensions escalate and you are trying to deescalate, which one hopes the United States is trying to do and weve heard from pompeo and trump that theyd theyd prefer to do that than to escalate. Zarif is not only irans chief diplomat as their foreign minister. Hes probably one of the deans of the diplomatic corps around the world. The United States does have an obligation because it is host to the United Nations to to allow people in. How is that affecting the ability to have any discussions . Because that is the formal channel by which anybody in the west would be talking to iran. It its completely blocking it. I mean, zarif is here in iran. Theres not much traveling going on. There are there was a Security Forum here. The afghan president and the sultan of oman was here. They were talking to him. But that thats not going very far. It makes a lot of difference when youre at the u. N. When the entire political global population is there. When you can talk to european leaders. Talk to american leaders. And others. Chinese, russians. All in the same forum. So in absence of any of that dialogue, this is making this situation all the more dangerous. The two main adversaries in this very dangerous game have absolutely no lines of communication to each other. And it doesnt look like the Trump Administration wants to open up that line of communication with iran. They talk about deescalation. But as you mentioned, the best way to deescalate is to sit and talk and not threaten each other on twitter. But thats exactly whats happening. They are just exchanging messages in in in on the internet. On twitter. And no real dialogue is taking place. Zarif is accusing the United States of acting illegally by blocking him going there. He says that theyre afraid of the truth. Thats why they dont want him to come. Secretary pompeo says that he just wants to go on a propaganda tour. So this isnt helping the situation whatsoever. Thanks to both of you. Ali arouzi, Tehran Bureau chief. Michael fuchs joining us as well. Thanks to both of you. Meanwhile, President Trump doubling down on his threats to attack irans cultural sites. A threat that is at odds with the president s own state and defense department. But first, capitol hill now divided over john boltons willingness to testify in President Trumps impeachment trial. What republicans are telling nbc news next. Youre watching velshi and ruhle on msnbc. Watching vels ruhle on msnbc. Hi, im bob harper, and i recently had a heart attack. It changed my life. But im a survivor. After my heart attack, my doctor prescribed brilinta. Its for people who have been hospitalized for a heart attack. Brilinta is taken with a lowdose aspirin. No more than 100 milligrams as it affects how well brilinta works. Brilinta helps keep platelets from sticking together and forming a clot. In a clinical study, brilinta worked better than plavix. Brilinta reduced the chance of having another heart attack. Or dying from one. Dont stop taking brilinta without talking to your doctor, since stopping it too soon increases your risk of clots in your stent, heart attack, stroke, and even death. Brilinta may cause bruising or bleeding more easily, or serious, sometimes fatal bleeding. Dont take brilinta if you have bleeding, like stomach ulcers, a history of bleeding in the brain, or severe liver problems. Slow heart rhythm has been reported. Tell your doctor about bleeding new or unexpected shortness of breath any planned surgery, and all medicines you take. If you recently had a heart attack, ask your doctor if brilinta is right for you. My heart is worth brilinta. If you cant afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. Ruhle. The white house and congress are at a standstill as House Speaker nancy pelosi continues to hold on to these articles of impeachment. Stalling the senate and President Trumps next strategic moves. And in a dramatic new development, former National Security advisor john bolton said that he would testify in the Senate Impeachment trial if subpoenaed. But theres no indication that bolton will actually testify. Senate republicans stopped short of calling for boltons subpoena. Senator, are you amenable to hearing from ambassador bolton in stage three . Thank you. There are a number of witnesses that may well be appropriate for the stage three of which he would certainly be one. I dont know quite what to make of it. I dont know mr. Bolton. What i know of him, i i i respect. He seems awfully anxious to testify. Id like to hear from john bolton and other witnesses with direct information. But that process will will accommodate that. Are you still open to voting to convict the president . Im remaining impartial, as my oath will require. Joining us now, msnbc correspondent Garrett Haake on capitol hill and former u. S. Attorney joyce vance. Garrett, lets start with john bolton. John bolton saying hes got something to say. But leaving it in the hands of republicans to issue a subpoena. If john bolton really has a story to tell, why not just come out and say it . We dont have to wait for his book, which hes been paid hand similarly for. He can come on tv with us. He can go on any network. He can put out a public statement. Thats exactly what ive heard from a you couple republican senators today saying this is a person who throughout his public career has never had a problem speaking out when he had something to say. And if hes inclined to Say Something now, he ought to just go ahead and do it. You heard from mitt romney there in the leadup to this. He was one of the last senators to really come out and say what he thought postbolton. Hes a senator who said all along that he does want to hear from john bolton. But what he also told reporters a few minutes ago is that hes perfectly fine with the Senate Following the clinton impeachment model going forward. Thats a model by which house impeachment managers will present their case. The president s lawyers will defend him. There will be a period of time where senators can ask questions of the two. And only then would they vote on whether or not to call witnesses. What that means is that republicans probably have the votes even now. Theyre in their lunch meeting right now. We expect to hear from Mitch Mcconnell as soon as they come out on this question. They probably have the votes to go ahead and move forward on a rules package just supported by republicans that does not include calling witnesses locked in up front. The votes are just not there for the democrats to go the other way on this. And so that may be what we see now whenever when and if nancy pelosi decide to release the articles and send them over to the senate side. Joyce, what are you thinking about what boltons testimony could look like . Because he said hes willing to testify. We dont know what hes willing to testify to. We dont know whether this will be remarkably damning evidence that will hurt the president s chances of getting acquitted in the senate. Or he might say things that that dont make it all that bad for the president. How do you think about this as a prosecutor . So i think its a really good question to ask. You know, i have never gone into a trial where ive put on cold a witness having no idea what they would say. Thats really not a very Good Practice for prosecutors. And here, it would be stunning if john bolton were to come in and testify in the senate with no one having any idea what his testimony would be about. It would certainly be a theatrical moment. It might help sell books. Who knows . But the reality here is that the situation with bolton highlights how different this process is from the clinton impeachment. Where there was a robust, thorough investigative process conducted by an independent counsel, who some people believed actually went on for far too long. But that process was thorough. All of the witnesses, including the president , had given statements. So by the time this process in the senate took place, there was an understanding of what the evidence looked like. We dont have that here because the president has kept firsthand witnesses from testifying and refused to turn over any documents. Garrett, john bolton is a lifetime republican. His superpac just put more money forward to try to support members of the gop running for reelection. There is no sign that he is looking to get the president removed from office. But he did leave the white house not on good terms. He is not on good terms with mike pompeo and mick mulvaney. How much pressure does it put those guys under to testify . Or does it worry them of what he could say . Well, it might. Look. Theyre under different sets of circumstances here because, of course, both pompeo and mulvaney are still employees of this white house. And could, presumably, apply different standards of executive privilege to try to get out of testifying should they be called. You know, bolton, in that white house, was just one of another big personalities back and forth. We know there were a lot of behindthescenes meetings on the issues around ukraine. We know, for example, there was one meeting bolton had by himself with the president. We know there was another that he had with pompeo thanks to the reporting from the New York Times. So this is someone who, if he does want to come out and tell the whole story, whatever story hes got, who knows if hes got his own notes and records from that time period, could put pompeo or mulvaney in a spot where down the line they might feel compelled to come forward and clear their names. Or or to try to push back in some way. But, again, theyre under a different set of rules, a different set of restrictions potentially as Current Administration employees. But are they, joyce . Because we hear the executive privilege extended when it suits. Don mcgahn isnt currently employed by the white house. Neither is hope hicks and we havent heard from those two. The president has never formally asserted executive privilege. We heard people like former attorney Jeff Sessions repeatedly saying, well, im not going to answer that question. So i can preserve the president s right to assert executive privilege. But the reality, stephanie, is that that question has never been tested. I suspect that its not quite as broad as this white house has tried to pretend that it is on occasion. The executive privilege is meant to preserve the president s ability to get clear, objective advice from his closest advisors on key issues when making policy decisions. Its not meant to hide criminal conduct. Its not meant to Keep Congress from engaging in oversight. To be fair, president s from both parties have tried to use it maybe more broadly than legal doctrine would accept. But one thing that we can be sure about President Trump is that if he does not want this testimony to be heard, then he can run to the nearest courthouse in an effort to delay the testimony. What a federal judge might say, we dont really know. Very interesting. Thank you to both of you. Joyce vance and Garrett Haake. Good to talk to you both. All right. Coming up, the democratic president ial candidates have just 27 days until the Iowa Caucuses begin. Dnc chair tom perez will join us live to discuss the 2020 primary season. But first, President Trump warning that the United States could strike dozens of iranian cultural sites. Are his secretary of state and defense secretary on the same page . Were going to dig into that on the other side. This is velshi and ruhle. D ru. Could switching to geico really save you fifteen percent or more on Car Insurance . Do woodchucks chuck wood . Hey you dang woodchucks, quit chucking my wood geico. 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Every target thats being reviewed, every effort thats being made will always be conducted inside the International Laws of war. All right. This comes after President Trump, twice, threatened, in tweets, to attack iranian cultural sites if the country retaliates against the United States for killing irans top general, Qassem Soleimani. Trump first issued the warning on twitter saying the United States has targeted 52 iranian sites representing the 52 american hostages taken by iran many years ago. Some at a very high level and important to iran and the iranian culture. He then followed up with reporters on air force one saying, quote, theyre allowed to kill our people. Theyre allowed to torture and maim our people. Theyre allowed to use roadside bombs and blow up our people and were not allowed to touch their cultural sites. It doesnt work that way. What are the laws governing the targeting of cultural sites . Well, article four under the 1954 Hague Convention states that members of the agreement shall, quote, refrain from any act directed by way of reprisal against cultural property. A 1977 amendment to the Geneva Convention stated that it is prohibited to commit any acts of hostility toward an historic monument. And in 2017, the United NationsSecurity Council condemned the destruction of cultural and religious sites in iraq and syria by terrorist organizations including isis. Now, iran has 24 sites that are desz nighted by the United Nations educational, scientific, and Cultural Organization as World Heritage sites. Two are considered natural. 22 are designed designated as culturally important. The 22 culturally important sites include the historic tabriz bizarre complex. A site which dates back to 500 b. C. Joining us now, diplomatic reporter for the New York Times. Lara, thank you for joining us. This is an important conversation. We had it during the isis the taliban takeover of afghanistan where they were bombing cultural sites. And generally speaking, the rest of the world thought that was sort of not something we do in war. Sort of barbaric. Its an attack on culture. Where did this idea come from with donald trump that that we should attack cultural sites . Well, thats actually not particularly clear. Theres been some question as to whether there actually is a target list that exists that would include cultural sites. Secretary pompeo today said that he has seen a list but that none of the items on the list would violate laws of war. As you noted, it is considered a law of war to attack a cultural site or a violation of law of war. And thats because the United Nations and the International Community decided decades ago, after world war ii, after nazi looting, that military strikes should really only target things that are military necessities. That going after cultural sites, that going after religious sites were gratuitous and not permissible under laws of war. What would the significance be President Trumps tweet actually with some people resonated when he said it in pretty plain english. If they can go after us, why cant we go after them . Specifically, going after cultural sites. What would the significance be and the possible impact and how much worse could the backlash be . Well, im not sure it could be worse. I think there would be international condemnation, globally, if some of these precious sites were, in fact, attacked or destroyed. As you noted earlier, the bombing on buddhas, their destruction by the taliban in 2001 was a prompted a huge outcry from the International Community. These are irreplaceable artifacts that date back centuries. We saw it more recently with isis in syria when the ruins were bombed. We saw it in mosul in Northern Iraq when isis bombed the mosque there in the centuriesold leaning tower. Again, these are antiquities that can never be replaced. That tell people about the world and how it developed and how civilizations grew. And so people have likened this threat by the Trump Administration to as barbaric as the taliban and the islamic state. And thats why, probably, you see people like secretary esper and secretary pompeo trying to walk it back. And say, no, we will remain within the laws of war. We do want to play you something that mark esper, defense secretary, has just told. I want to ask you about the 52 sites that President Trump tweeted about once and then doubled down on. And you have responded by saying the United States military will abide by the code of uniform and Armed Conflict. As you know, it is illegal. It is a war crime just to give such an order. Again, you were a commander on the ground and you know that a general or commander cannot even give such an order because that would be a war crime. Even if its not carried out. You would have to, as the senior civilian in the defense department, you would have to refuse that order and make sure it wasnt given. Are you prepared to do that . Look. As we always have, the United States will follow the laws of Armed Conflict and international law. And i have no doubt in my mind at the end of the day, the we we will follow the laws of Armed Conflict if we end up in a situation with iran. And that the commanderinchief will only give us legal orders. So the cultural targets, the cultural sites are off the table, is that correct . We do not violate the laws of Armed Conflict. I i mean, thats an interesting statement because he was unambiguous, particularly for a Trump Administration official. His answer was unambiguous but then he added that part the commander in chief will not give us an unlawful order. There are a lot of people who might be watching this show who are less confident about that. Thats what it comes down to. The president can tweet what he wants. Esper and and and and the secretary of state are going to be responsible for saying thats actually against the law. We wont do that. Well, it was kind of a squirmy response, right . I mean, nobody wants to directly contradict the president of the United States. At least the secretary of defense and the secretary of state dont. So they were, i think, both youve seen both mr. Esper and mr. Pompeo try to maintain that the United States will abide by laws of war and not yet go the extra step of directly contradicting President Trump. Its important to note here that the International Criminal court, three years ago i guess four years ago now convicted an Islamic Militant in mali for destroying artifacts there. And the United States is not a party to the International Criminal court. So destroying artifacts would be very, very hard to enforce. And but you would see a lot of diplomatic fallout if the United States were to cross this line. It would alienate all sorts of allies. Again, not to mention the rest of the International Community. All right. Thank you for your reporting on this. Its an important issue and its important to get the details about it. Lara jakes. We also want to mention that we will be joined by the president of the metropolitan museum of art on the 3 00 p. M. Hour of msnbc. You know, there are i think a lot of reasonable people would say what are rules of war . War is a bad thing. Why do we even have rules . But we do have some rules and its about targeting the military. And its about not targeting civilians. Its about not targeting cultural sites. When isis did it, when the taliban did it, when al qaeda does it, were readily able to say its barbaric. It is not what we do. We dont destroy humans culture in an effort to achieve a war end. But the question is if mark esper is saying hes confident that the president is going is not going to direct any unlawful commands, the question is, is this just a tweet by the president to distract us . Because we just spent five minutes talking about that and not talking about impeachment. Dont worry. Well get back to it. Coming up, while you werent watching. The Trump Administration tweaked a federal antidiscrimination guideline, by the way. Were going to talk about how the move affects the Lgbtq Community. But first, we are now less than four weeks out from the democratic Iowa Caucuses. Dnc chairman tom perez joins us next to talk about all things 2020. You are watching velshi and ruhle live on msnbc. Live on mc everything your trip needs for everyone you love. Expedia. For everyone you love. When we see you enter through our doors. We dont see who youre against, or for. Whether tomorrow will be light or dark. All we see in you, is a spark. We see your kindness and humanity. 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We are about one month away from the allimportant Iowa Caucuses. And just one week away from the next democratic president ial debate in des moines, iowa. And the stakes could not be higher. So far, only five candidates have secured their spots. Joe biden, pete buttigieg, amy klobuchar, bernie sanders, and Elizabeth Warren. The Democratic National committee has faced a lot of criticism for the smaller number of qualifying polls for the debate. But the dnc has declined to sponsor their own debate their own debatequalifying polls. And another big issue facing the Democratic Candidates, the prospect of campaigning while an impeachment trial unfolds in the senate. Joining us now, the perfect person to address this. The chairman of the Democratic National committee, tom perez. Tom, thank you for joining us. Lets start great to be with you. Thank you. Right there. If an impeachment trial is unfolding right around the same time the caucuses, the debates, what are you going to do . These people running have to go to work. Sure. Well, democrats and our senators can walk and chew gum. Obviously, if if theres a trial on the 14th, then well move the debate. If theres not, then were going to have the debate. And i at the moment, all systems are go. So were going to move forward. And our candidates are very agile, just as the American People are agile. You know, families across this country walk and chew gum every day. They take care of their kids. They they feed the family. They pay the bills. And they want to make sure that their congress is doing the same thing. And our candidates will do the same thing. Because some of them are senators and theyre going to have to go to the senate for this trial. Does that does that does that hurt where you think the campaign should be . Or its not relevant . I think the campaigns have been investing in this infrastructure. All of them have a really robust infrastructure. The energy is off the charts. Well have record turnout in iowa and throughout the democratic caucuses and primaries. Folks are energized. You saw the energy over the last three years. I mean, kentucky, louisiana, i mean, trump went there both nights and said this race is about me. Mr. President , its not about you. But he said that. And democrats won there. The enthusiasm is off the charts. Women are coming out in great numbers. 53 to 54 of the voters in november are going to be women. Hes under water there. You look at key battleground states. Wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, florida. His net approval is down 20 points from what it was before. And its below george w. Bush. Its below clinton. Its below obama at this point in the presidency. We have a wind at our back. We are going to keep organizing and i look forward to this debate. I do want to correct something that was in your tease there, which you in which you said there is a low number of polls for the upcoming debate. I want to correct that. There are 19 qualifying polls for this upcoming debate. And in order to make the debate stage, and by the way, before the end of the qualifying period, there will be at least 20. Right. In order to make the debate stage, you have to have 5 in four of those debates. 4 of 20. And contrast that with where we were in 2016. The last debate before iowa. You had to average 5 in the preceding five polls. So you had only five polls to qualify. And you effectively had to go five for five. Here, were saying you got to go 4 for 20. Im a baseball fan. On january 3rd r, there was article in the New York Times which andrew yang said he wants the dnc to conduct its own polling given the are you say thats inaccurate . There are literally there will be no less than 20 qualifying polls. And again, look historically. Not just at the republican but the democratic side in 2016 and before. Five polls. Were allowing 20 polls. The moment the dnc starts doing its own polling and then you get the results, were going to create a whole new set of trust issues because people will say, oh, you rigged this. And thats why we use independent pollsters. So i love andrew yang. We went to the same college. Hes a dynamic candidate. We have set the rules out there very theyve been very transparent. Weve given unprecedented access. Again, 20 polls versus five qualifying polls. Betting 4 for 20 is what you need to do and i think that is imminently fair. What does it say about some candidates who are seeing the rules that youve set up or the debates that youve set up and saying im not particularly interested . Mike bloomberg is now in the most recent Morning Consult poll at 7 . Hes not showing up in iowa or on any of your debate stages. What does that say about the infrastructure around this primary when youve got a candidate living outside the rules . Well, he has obviously not the rules but the infrastructure. I understand. And hes he obviously has the resources to do a lot of advertising. And hes doing just that and i hear that from my relatives in states across the country. And that is obviously his right. And what we will find out, again, less than a month from voting and the voters will make their choices heard very clearly. Starting february 3rd, its basically a 90day sprint to the end of april when we have the primary from rhode island to maryland. We will have 90 of the delegates allocated. And your question, stephanie, is a question that the voters will answer. Is that a good or a bad thing . Because lets share what Elizabeth Warren told our colleague Rachel Maddow last night about Mike Bloombergs campaign and his approach specifically. The alternative is Michael Bloombergs version of democracy. And that is billionaires who decide among themselves who is going to reach in the pocket and throw a few hundred million on the table. And buy, what, a nomination . Buy an election . If thats the case, then our democracy becomes something that only works for a tiny number of people. And its going to shut everybody else out. The only two Democratic Candidates running regular national ads are tom steyer and mike bloomberg. So what do you make of her argument . Well, ive always been a fan of Campaign Finance reform. Ive always been a fan and i think the democratic partys been a fan of overturning citizens united. And we need to work to do that. In order to work to do that, we need to have a democrat in the white house and more democrats in the senate and the u. S. House. And in the meantime, this is going to be the question for voters to decide. And so if you believe that we should make sure that we have a small d democracy where the grassroots can make their voices heard and people should not allow the influence of money in politics, you will have the opportunity in less than a month in iowa. And over the course of the next four months across this country to make a very strong statement about that. Let me put that screen up of the people who have qualified so far for the next debate. Some could look at that and say thats interesting. Youve got two women, one gay man. But you have zero people of color. And there have been people of color in this race. There still are. How do you think about that . As somebody i know for years weve talked about this. You think there is and should be a bigger role for people of color in the democratic party. Whats the answer to that problem . Ali, you and i as you know, weve had many conversations on the air and off the air about our mutual commitment to inclusion and diversity. And as someone whos been a civil rights lawyer, i take a back seat to no one. We would have a sixth person on the debate stage if ckamala was still in the race. She would have made the debate stage in january. And throughout her campaign. I have no doubt about that. What what we have done is weve set forth a clear set of transparent, inclusive rules. This nobody whos been under 5 at this point in a primary has ever won a primary or caucus. We set those rules out in advance. And its for the voters to decide. The the reason you have five people who have qualified is that voters are getting called and theyre making their preference felt. So if you want to make sure that a candidate of color makes the debate stage, when a pollster calls you, make sure you make that preference felt. Because that is how you move the polling needle and, again, the voters are the ones who are making these decisions right now. And the person whos going to win the democratic primary, i dont know who that will be, is going to be the person who can garner the votes across the broad quilt of the democratic party. And that is and if you look at the polling right now, it reflects that adage. And whoever is able to do that is going to win. And were going to make sure the process is fair. And, you know, people i used to be an umpire back in college. That was my night job. People work the ref. I get that. Thats part of the process. And what the ref has to make sure they do is set forth the rules, do them fairly, do them transparently, and not create exceptions at the 11th hour. I love i love cory booker. I love andrew yang. I love i love all these candidates. Some of whom are in. Some of whom have left the race. But you cant have a toms friend rule saying, well, well make an exception. The voters are speaking very clearly. And that is how we are determining our participants. And weve had the most inclusive process in American History and many of these candidates had literally five, six opportunities. Not to mention the earned Media Opportunities that you here at msnbc and elsewhere have given them. And we have been working hard to ensure that because we want to make sure that everybody, whether theyre a household name or not a year ago, had a fair shake. I know were out of time but i have to ask. When you study polling and you study it more than anyone else, how different is the democrat out there in the electorate than the twitter democrat . Well, you know, i think thats a really important question, stephanie. And and the democrats across america that i speak to, whether its the farmer in wisconsin or the factory worker in pennsylvania and michigan, theyre concerned about healthcare. Theyve got family members with preexisting conditions. They want to know who has their back. The farmer in wisconsin heard donald trump say that farmers are over the hump. Farmers are over the barrel. Wisconsin is the farm bankruptcy capital of america. Corporate farms. And dairy farms are taking it on the chin in wisconsin and elsewhere. And theyre taking it on the chin, the straw that broke the camels back was healthcare. And so what i hear across america from Everyday Americans is whos going to have my back on healthcare . Whos going to have my back on on jobs that pay a good wage . Who is going to keep their promises to me . And this president walked into ohio, michigan, wisconsin, and elsewhere, and said thered never be a plant closure. And here dont sell your homes. And here we have now the worst year, 2019, the worst year in the Auto Industry since the great recession. Barack obama and democrats saved the Auto Industry. And this president has broken his promises. Thats what i hear across the country. And the reason i feel confident as the head of the Democratic National committee is because weve been winning at scale. 2017, 18, and 19. And we continue to have wind at our back because were fighting for the issues that matter most to people. We talk about the big recession. We should always remind our audience thats what the auto bailout took place. The president talks all the time were in the greatest economy ever. Well, this is happening, the farm bailout has been bigger than the auto bailout. 30 billion to farmers, mostly corporate ones. Meanwhile, we want to cut food stamps. Yep. Tom, good to see you as always. Thank you for joining us. Tom perez, chairman of the Democratic National committee. Former secretary much labor in the obama administration. Coming up, the Trump Administration quietly rolling out rolling back protections for the lgbt community. How this could affect uhyou, o people you know, next. You, or people you know, next. Before theyre on medicare. Come on in. Youre turning 65 soon . Yep. And youre retiring at 67 . Thats the plan well, youve come to the right place. Its also a great time to learn about an aarp Medicare Supplement insurance plan, insured by Unitedhealthcare Insurance Company. Heres why. 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If youre turning 65 soon or over 65 and planning to retire, find out more about the plans that live up to their name. Thumbs up to that remember, the time to prepare is before you go on medicare dont wait. Get started today. Call unitedhealthcare and ask for your free decision guide. Learn more about aarp Medicare Supplement plan options and rates to fit your needs oh, and happy birthday. Or retirement. In advance. Welcome back to velshi and ruhle. Quietly scrubbing protections for the Lgbtq Community. In the latest development the interior department deleted Sexual Orientation from its antidiscrimination guidelines. The Trump Administration did not respond to a request from nbc for comment but a spokesperson has touted multiple Government Employees who trump hired who are members of the Lgbtq Community. A spokesperson told the huffington post, quote, per the equal Employment Opportunity commission under the title vii term sex includes gender, gender identity, transgender status, Sexual Orientation and pregnancy. Tyler clementi foundation. Tyler, who was gay, died by suicide. What does this policy change, in your mind, do . What should it matter . Thank you. Its really important and very problematic to have the protections removed from the National Government. And it trickles down into every day lives, including my own life. As a mom of someone who died by suicide, i think its really important to make sure that there are protections for the Lgbtq Community. We cofounded the Tyler Clementi foundation to put an end to online and offline bullying and by identifying a group of marginalized people who are not going to be protect ned longer, it sends a message to young people all over the country. And its an important issue that we need to make sure that they know that they are safe. We want all people to feel safe, including employees of the National Government as well. It is unique as a problem for young people, because it is the time in which many people come out and they dont know how to do it, and they are subject to discrimination. So the rate of people dying by suicide as young people who come out has remained high because we havent fibsed this problem as a society and we need to take a look at the government to create a topdown environment. Right. It should happen from the top. It can happen grassroots as well. And it does. Having our voices amplified through these programs is critical. Thats one of the reasons why our foundation, myself personally, reached out to all the candidates running. We believe strongly people should be upstanders, people who stand up for the marginalized people, that show respect and kindness but also will intervene if someone is being targeted. And what response did you get . We got 12 of the candidates so far to sign our pledge to date. Thats great. On our website so please go. We reached out to the administration. They have not signed. They did not respond to us at all. We reached out bipartisanly. This is a bipartisan issue, a human issue. Have you reached out to the administration specifically about this rule change . The president touts himself as being progay. Yes. No, weve not had the opportunity about this rule change. But they have had a slow, quiet removal of the Lgbtq Community from day one. They removed the website right off the bat. Of course, theres the transgender issue, not allowing trans individuals to serve in the military, removing Sexual Orientation from the 2020 census. Its a slow removal of a community of people that is very harmful to everyday people. I want to ask you about this Pilot Program that was announced today in new jersey, where youre from, that will bring an lgbtq focus in curriculum in schools. In the context of tyler and the work you do, understanding young people and their issues, do you think this will save lives . Absolutely. The more we can relate to people and build bridges and understand why its so important to celebrate differences and not target people is definitely lifesaving work. This will definitely help. Im very much a proponent of Garden State Equality was one of the organizations that pushed for this. Thank you, jane. Thank you for my kids. Were sorry for why you are the advocate that you are, but thank you for the work you are doing. Jane clementi is the founder of the Tyler Clementi foundation. Were expecting to hear from defense secretary mark esper on the escalating tensions with iran. Youre watching velshi ruhle live on msnbc. Live on msnbc. En g another treatment, ask about xeljanz xr, a oncedaily pill for adults with moderate to severe Rheumatoid Arthritis or active Psoriatic Arthritis for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. 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Whether youre travelling around the country or around the house, keep what you watch with you. Download the Xfinity Stream app and watch all the shows you love. Thank you for watching v. Lshi ruhle. Right now our colleague Chris Jansing picks up the coverage. I was amusing you in the break. Ump. You were all business and we were like two teenage kids, laughing as a mom in the front seat looking for directions. Stop talking yes. That just happened. Thank you both. See you, friend. Hello, everyone. Im Chris Jansing. 11 00 a. M. Out west. 2 00 p. M. In washington. Facing consequential decisions, the threat of war in the middle east and in a split screen of importance, impeachment and the pressure from john boltons willingness to testify. Any minute now were expecting to hear from defense secretary mark esper on the latest with iran. Well have that. First, since today is day 106 of the impeachment inquiry, heres whats happening there. For the first time today congress is back since the house impeached the president december 16th, but theyre returning days after the president s decision to kill general soleimani with