Transcripts For MSNBCW MSNBC Live With Velshi And Ruhle 20190927

President trump now calling on house intel german adam schiff to resign. President trumps new comment on the whistleblower, well talk about the Chilling Effect this could have. The president of the United States compares whistleblower, those who gave the information comparing them to spies. Lets start with the white house grappling with the fast moving developments and the fallout intel community. Something the president thinks about. Firing off a dozen tweets already today going after his perceived enemies in this impeachment fight, democrats, adam schiff and the press. There is new reporting that Vice President pence advised against releasing the white house memo of the call between President Trump and president zelensky of ukraine. Thats the focus of the impeachment inquiry. We got the new role of Rudy Giuliani and his outreach. Our own Richard Engel sat down with prosecutor general, he was mentioned several times in the complaints. Richard asked about the biden and the prosecutor, he did not know of any violation of ukraine law. More from that interview and richard live a little later on from kiev. Democrats are talking about a swift although they say it is not hasty investigation that could take a matter of weeks and not months. Here is nancy pelosi on morning joe today. This is no call for any joy. This is a sad time for our country. Impeachment of a president is a serious part of our congressional and apart from declaring war. Let me ask you of the attorney general . Hes going rogue. We have to stay focus on the fact that the president of the United States used taxpayers dollars to shake hand of another leaders country for his own political gain. Does it need to be completed one way or another by the end of the year . I think we should move purpose a purpo purposely. So what the president did in invi inviting outside intervention into our election goes beyond the pale. 225 democrats and one independent in the house supports on some kind of proceeding measure. This is above the 20118 needed. I want to go to Geoff Bennett has been reporting through the day. Now they got the votes, what are their priorities . We have another democrat throwing her name into the proimpeachment and thats tulsi gabby of hawaii. Shes running for president and often times she stakes that position. Yesterday she was a strong no. The last ten minutes or so, she issued a statement, based on her close reading of the whistleblowers complaint and the white houses transcript put out and President Trumps comment since all news is broken, if the country wont move forward with impeachment, thats a dangerous president. We know the impeachment inquiry will live for now within the house and Intelligence Committee as they pursue this controversy and what happened regarding the president s conversation with the countdowner part and what happened at the white house it appears to cover it up. Thats the allegation made. The focus of the inquiry and the timeline. Take a look. We have begun to reach out to witnesses and noticing depositions or interviews as soon as next week. Well hold hearings as soon as we can. We expect subpoenas to go out, more subpoenas to go out first thing next week as well. We are moving with all speed. I know well do everything we can to perceive methodically and swiftly. When they do that, every effort by the administration to slow us down will only add to the case against them for obstruction of congress. Bo li reporter democrats believe the ukraine controversy provides them against the best case to make against donald trump. The whistleblower is the road map. Complicity on the part of the white house officials who tried to cover up whatever bad act the president is accused of. Geoff bennett, thank you for that. Nbc News White House correspondent kelly odonell is joining me now from the north lawn. There has been a real scramble at the white house and a panic. Theyre not sure of how to perceive. Whats happening where you are and what are you hearing . There are two levels of this. The publics side trying to project nothing that is changed. There is as p we got additionl new reporting that fills in a little more about this. As the president is trying to discredit the whistleblower and as Kellyanne Conway says whistleblower would be a stretch of a term because this person who brought the complaint was not a direct witness to events. We do now know the white house is saying that a fact presented in the complaint by the whistleblower is supported by the white house. We learned that the National Security Council Lawyers directed classified documents be handled appropriately. By that, what we mean is that the handing of the materials, the notes and recreated conversation between the president and president zelensky that was placed in a code word protected server. You needed to code word level access to get to that document to have access to read it. That was a decision made by lawyers made by senior officials here at the white house. Why did they come to that decision, thats the key, right . Thats something we have pressed for additional exploration. We did not get more specifics about this is particular call. If i can go back a bit and say remember the early part of the administration, when President Trump was having a few months of foreign leader calls. There were leaks that took place that did not reflect well on President Trump where he was der rided for some of the ways he handled his interactions withle. There was an effort by the white house to limit who could see the accounts of those phone calls. We dont know was this call apart of an effort broadly to limit access to the calls for was the july 25th call handled differently because of the nature of the conversation with ukraine president about the under lining issue related the the biden and so forth. Thats part of the piece we need to learn more about. The complaint filed by the whistleblower suggested it was in a code word protected area because of the content of the call or something bigger. Thats part of what we are trying to work out. Chris. Great reporting from kelly odonell. I want to get a deeper look at this story, bring in richard, who served as special prosecu prosecutor, clint watts, wrote messing with the enemy. Nancy from politico. So much to get to. Richard, i want to pick on what we heard from kelly odonell. What do you make of the fact that nsc lawyers directed the classified documents be handled appropriately. What was done to put a document into a server of the highest classification despite the fact and the content of the call does not seem of National Security material in that call that would warrant classification. This has eerie hence watergate and in that we see perhaps bogus claims of National Security to protect individual acts of misconduct. This reads to you like a cover up, is that what you are saying . This could well be considered that depending on the rational over the context of the original tape recording and where that tape recording conversation there resigns. Again, like watergate, here comes the tapes. So, clint, you know how the system works. Help us to understand, first of all, why would an nsc lawyer, somebody within the system who understands presumably National Security direct that something that has no National Security implications the way i have seen the letter and the way i and many other people have read the complaint, what do you make of that decision . It is odd. Sensitive compartment and information. This is not unusual inside the government but usually thats coword meaning restricted. The higher up, the less people have access to it. Based on what the transcript was that came out of the white house, it seems very farfetched that this would reach the thresho threshold. Imagine maybe a negotiation with the foreign leader where you are trying to reign something of intelligence value. This is not that. This looks like someone trying to get information on its political rival. Where this breaks down as well in terms of classification, this is not a call thats encrypted and secured in between two protected parties in the way we may think of intelligence activities. This is a call between President Trump and the foreign leaders. The foreign leaders does not have to secure that phone call. It is on the other end. It is rather unusual theyre trying to elevate that unless theyre trying to keep as few people as possible from seeing the actual content of that call. Would there be a legitimate reason for doing that, the content of it and again it is not a National Security issue. I dont see why it would be elevated to such a level based on what the transcript was that came out of the white house. Richard, one of the things we are hearing from democrats today, they dont necessarily want to make this what some people perceive as a cover up. What they want is to keep the focus on is what the president did and what he said and did he try to pressure a Foreign Government into doing something that would help him politically. Where do you see as somebody who had been through the process and we just heard adam schiff saying we are already talking to people about coming in and giving b interviews. Whats the next step and where is this going . Thats quite appropriate. I was gratified to hear Speaker Pelosi talk about how we would perceive as a country and getting the facts. There should be no perception of a rush to judgment. The whistle blower has provided essentially a road map for in v investigators to follow. It sounds like thats happening in the intelligent committee. Theyre pursuing the leads that is are identified and well see whether the white house stone walls it. The country needs to understand whats happening, the gravity of the situation were desperately needed help by a country thats under threat by our russian adversary, requires military support and yet it seemingly dependant on their willingness to quote play ball as a whistleblow whistleblower. With the political objectives and partisan political objectives of the president who made this a condition of having the conversation and we need to investigate where mr. Zelensky was prepped by a variety of different sources as to what is coming and what it will be. And it is both what happened before or who was involved and in addition to the content of the request by the president , what happened afterwards . All of that is appropriately within the scope of the investigation. Thats on the house side. On the democratic side, nancy in our reporting today, terrific story by the way in politico. You remind us of a very important fact that maybe why there is no Clear Strategy in place and thats for a long timtim time, the president truly believ believes impeachment would help him, right . Is trump ally for the story today. During the mueller investigation, President Trump really thought impeachment could be sort of a cake walk compares to what he was going through. He thought it could help him politically with his own campaign which he runs a lot on the idea of grievances. He can only be voted out of office if twothirds of the Senate Approved of it. He felt comfortable because the republicans control the senate. He had in nonchalant attitude about this. Trying to discredits the whistleblower. Theyre trying to figure out what to do next. I recommend the story to people because it has a lot of inside information. Nancy from politico. Clint watts here. Always a pressure. You know theyre calling President Trumps action a quote, profound National Security concern. Up in the case, i will talk with one of 300 former National Security officials who signed a letter saying trump may have abused his power on that call with the ukraine president. Will an impeachment inquiry hurt or help the 2020 democrats. The Trump Administration is slashing the cap on refugees to the lowest it ever been in the program. The state Department Says it will accept 18,000 refugees in the next 12 months. The limb is 30,000. The Administration Says because the drain on American Resources caused by illegal immigration. You are watching velshi ruhle live on msnbc. 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Paneras new warm grain full of flavor, color,. Full of woo full of good. So you can be too. Try our new warm grain bowls today. Panera. Food as it should be. Fight for blast offs fight for piggyback rides fight for 7 am makeouts. Every year, walgreens helps millions of people fight the flu. Fight to protect the ones you love. Walgreens. Be a flu fighter. Get your free flu shot today at your neighborhood walgreens. Juul record. They took 12. 8 billion from big tobacco. Juul marketed mango, mint, and menthol flavors, addicting kids to nicotine. Five million kids now using ecigarettes. The fda said juul ignored the law with Misleading Health claims. Now juul is pushing prop c, to overturn san franciscos ecigarette protections. Say no to juul, no to big tobacco, no to prop c. Welcome back to velshi ruhle. A Bipartisan Group of former government officials sounding alarm on President Trump. More than 300 foreign policies and intelligence and National Security officials signed a letter calling trumps dealing with the ukraine president a profound national concern. They applaud democrats for starting an impeachment inquiry. Joining me now is joel rubin. He served under president george w. Hush and barack obama. Always good to see you joel. Great to be with you chris. What is the specific National Security threat concern that you see made you sign onto this letter . The end of the day what donald trump is doing is hes turning our country into an oligarc oligarchy. We are a country of laws and has National Security. By these revelations, what we are seeing, the president is using his position for his personal benefit, political in an instance, maybe there is financial in another instance or a favorite to other family members. We dont know where it stops. This has to stop. We taken a note protect and preserve the constitution. This is why i am concerned. I heard from a lot of democrats, they feel there is going to be an impeachment process going forward. It has to be clear and has to be focused. In fact she said that on morning joe this morning. Let me ask you with the background that you have. Why should Americans Care about the whistleblowers complaint. Ben rogue who was on msnbc, a National Security secrets was used to protect a president s personal interest. There is legal potentially and ethical threat but does what the president did make american citizens any less safe . It does, chris. I will give you an example as to why. For these conversations, imagine what is going on. We dont know whats in the vault. What did President Trump said to putin . I need you to create division inside the european union. A reporting on that conversation may be one of the other ones thats put inside that high level security server. You bet. We dont know where it ends. The problem here is what is the president willing to do for personal favors that hes seeking or that offered to him. Thats what countries do when they dont have the rule of law. Thats what countries do when the leader thinks it is their own personal country and they own it. They get to decide for themselves what it is matters to the country and not what matters to the National Interests and the whole community. North korea is another example. There is a lot of chatter. I support diplomacy with north korea. I am suspicious of what it is the north Korean Leader promised donald trump. But tests terniconcerning the intelligence community, the president shrugs off. Why . We got a minute left. Since you were at state, i have to ask you what you make of Rudy Giuliani who seems to be thinking that if hes directed to intervene with the ukrainians, that does not raise more concerns. Operator and the white house. With no security clearance we know of. Hes receiving funds from group that support the violence overthrow of iran listed a few years ago. We have no idea hes up to. I am sure he struck fear into their heart of what are we doing here. This is dangerous. And how do we manage the situation. It is dangerous to the institution zg N Institution and not just the policy. Still ahead, how vital is it whi whistleblowers are protected . How 2020 democrats need to treat the impeachment inquiries so they dont ill naalienate voter. You are watching velshi ruhle on msnbc. E watching vel ruhle on msnbc. Get digital id cards, emergency roadside service, even file a. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa oops, that cheeky little thing got away from me. My bad. Geico. Its easy to manage your policy whenever, wherever. Can i trouble you for another marshmallow . Red lobsters endless shrimp is back for just 15. 99. Get all the shrimp you want, any way you want em. Like new srirachahoney shrimp, savory grilled teriyaki shrimp, classic shrimp scampi and more red lobsters endless shrimp is 15. 99. Hurry in. [woman] with my shark, i deep clean messes like this, this, and even this. But i dont have to clean this, because the selfcleaning brush roll removes hair while i clean. [announcer] shark, the vacuum that deep cleans now cleans itself. Thousands of women with Metastatic Breast Cancer are living in the moment and taking ibrance. Ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor is for postmenopausal women or for men with hr her2 Breast Cancer that has spread to other parts of the body meaning its metastatic as the first hormonal based therapy. Ibrance plus letrozole significantly delayed disease progression versus letrozole. Patients taking ibrance can develop low white blood cell counts which may cause serious infections that can lead to death. Before taking ibrance, tell your doctor if you have fever, chills, or other signs of infection, liver or kidney problems, are pregnant, breastfeeding, or plan to become pregnant. Common side effects include low red blood cell and low platelet counts, infections, tiredness, nausea, sore mouth, abnormalities in liver blood tests, diarrhea, hair thinning or loss, vomiting, rash, and loss of appetite. Be in your moment. Ask your doctor about ibrance. I welcome back to velshi ruhle. Democrats facing the prospect campaigning for the white hou housism impeachment. Trump is filling his impeachment chest very fast. 13 million in the past three days. Campaign camps bolster his reelection efforts. Joining me now eugene scott. Hard to see you. Hard to know where to start and there is so much going on. What do you think an impeachment inquiry means for the 2020 democrats whos gearing up for the one night only debate. It is taking up so much of the oxygen in the room. We know that. There is been a 19 or 20 or larger numbers of democrats seeking office and they had a real challenge trying to get their message to voters with so many people focused on the impeach. And moderators and voters, it would be different kill for sic these candidates to get their message on what they believe what would make America Great on two people who really want to know it. We have seen throughout the course of the campaign and the last several months, Elizabeth Warren and now we are seeing a series of different of polls. Shes polling ahead of joe biden there. You can see her among democratic voters in iowa and New Hampshire and nationwide. Today hes on the campaign trail for the first time in nearly a week. Will this be affected . Does the attention going on help him or hurt him in any way . I certainly think it can hurt him with swing voters who are trying to decide whether or not they are going to pick biden to go around assuming they pick trump previously. Many of these voters listen to the president or medium that supports him and getting a message of what happened thats not based on the fact, they can be supported by evidence. Biden will have to answer some of his team answering questions that he would spend his time focusing on getting onto voters. The president is displaying one more reason for why he needs to be replaced and unfit for office will come back to the situation and conclude that it is joe biden who would be the best person to replace him. I was thinking about this today as i was watching nancy pelosi on morning joe and i have interviewed a number of democrats the last couple of days and see them elsewhere. There is a seriousness and somberness when theyre talking about impeachment. They dont want this to turn into what by any measure the president s accusation is some sort of rich hobt hunt. I am wondering how they affect and their attitude twors election in general. I see this has an emotional effect on the american people. Could itpolls . It depends on which democrats you are thinking of. It is sad for Many Americans to go through this process. It is i embarrassing and time consuming and demoralizing. There are large percentages of americans who believe the president is unfit for office since before he went to the oval office. For them this is not as somber as pelosi is describing it. They see this is an opportunity to remove someone from office that put forward their policies that have hurt them and someone in the white house wholl advocate for all americans. You made up a great point there. Every single one in the movement is towards support for impeachment. Eugene scott, great to talk to you. What happens when whistleblowers are not protected . Plus, an nbc news exclusive. A man mentions in the whistleblower complain oneonone. We are watching the texas tribute funeral of some of the biggest names and politics who are speaking this time. Stephanie ruhle is joining me now. What are you up to today . Reporter there is not a lot of news going on so i thought i come down to texas for barbecue and maybe get myself some cowboy boots. I am here and about an hour from now, i am going to sit down with mayor pete buttigieg. It is hot down here in texas. There are people around the block, probably about 2. 5 hour wait to hear pete pete buttigbu. The changes of this administration is taking around our treatments of refugees. Hes got to mix some serious strives in pe wahe wants to movm the top five to the top two. Time are wasting. I am your koo you are yo curious. Are we going to see this lady . We are excited in the fact. I know the democrats and when people who are generally working is interesting to me. Listen, a lot of the people i have spoken to the last few hours are super enthusiastic, not necessarily about peach. One of the things we hear in everything and you know this more and more people engaged just on my walk over. I met two women who said i have not been involved in politics before but now the stakes could not be higher. Whether we were talking when theyll win, we are talking about a return to decent cy. A lot of people are here to see mayor peek. I will be sitting there at 3 00 your hour and 2 00 my time. Testistephanie, thank you so. Well be watching and well be right back. Well be watching and well be right back complicated, you know . Well sure, at first, but jj can help you with that. Jj, will you break it down for this gentleman . Hey, ian. You know, at Td Ameritrade, we can walk you through your options trades step by step until youre comfortable. I could be up for that. Thats taking options trading from wall st. To main st. Hey guys, wanna play some pool . Eh, im not really a pool guy. Whats the hesitation . Its just complicated. Stepbystep options trading support from Td Ameritrade music plays throughout paneras new warm grain full of flavor, color,. Full of woo full of good. So you can be too. Try our new warm grain bowls today. Panera. Food as it should be. [woman] with my shark, i deep clean messes like this, this, and even this. But i dont have to clean this, because the selfcleaning brush roll removes hair while i clean. [announcer] shark, the vacuum that deep cleans now cleans itself. Doprevagen is the number oneild mempharmacistrecommendeding . Memory support brand. You can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. I am royalty of racing, i am the twisting thundercloud. Raise your steins to the king of speed. The president of the United States to compare whistleblower to a spy and insinuate of what we did in days of your which is hanging folks for treason. It is inappropriate. That was terry sewell speaking with me of growing concerns of what this means for whistleblower. What we are seeing right now will have a Chilling Effect for whistleblower seeshl since President Trump was at the United Nation yesterday saying this. I wonder whos the person that gave the whistleblower and information . You know the old days when we were sport with spies and treason. We newsed to do it ditly. Jobbing me now john, it is so good for you to come on. We ask the obvious question. What did you think when you heard the president say anyone give b the type of information to a whistleblower, that you know what used to happen to this spy, it is suggesting it could be treason. Whistleblowers have been central to the fronting of our democracy since the beginning. We had strong support from leaders of both parties. We had sailors witnessing work crimes and torturing a prisoner. Their commondor threw them in jail. Pass the first blo blow whistleblower. To see this president den grading whistle employer and shooting the mes censs messenge counter productive. What us it say right now and what kind of protections would it offer . Well, the key thing in most whistleblowers law is what they call protection and antiretaliation. This whistleblower had the b benefit that did not affect a few years ago. You can keep your identity a secret. Submit the complaint to the Inspector General. It poses an urge concern. That should be transmitted to congress. It is still not strong in our opinion. It has a core idea that whistleblowers deserve protection. Another key thing, earlier this week, both houses of congress unanimously said we want this complaint transmitted to us. So we have again consuming this tradition of congress saying we like whistleblower to deliver evidence. And so again, this is really out of the mainstream idea for the president suggests that we are not interested. You just mention that you dont think the current whistleblower law is not going to go far enough. We know there are negotiations going with the whistleblowers lawyer and the Intel Committee to allow him or her to come forward to come forward to testify. Knowing what you know what the protections are and. The whistleblower can go talk to the committee and feel they are doing so and being prote protected. The key thing here is the confidence that when you step forward and take that incredible risk to your career. It is a significant risk. You will know the information will get to the proper authority. The step that it was added and really exists for any other whistleblower in the federal government. They said it was added and you have to wait for a ruling from the general Inspector General and block and forward to congress. We dont seat the benefit of that. We see a great cause of that. We had weeks of debating and what the whistleblower complaint may say. How concerned are you of the identity of the whistleblower and the president says he does not know the whistleblower is but made some charges of the person being partisan and made charges by them and diets the fact what you put on complaint. How concerned are you that before the Whistleblower Makes that choice they could be made public . Very concerned. There is long lashaun stewarded history. Whistle blower is being retaliated and losing their livelihoo livelihoods. The the parallels are substance. That came forward and information suggesting that the president was using the powers of the government for his own personal political benefits to advance his reelection. That should have blown on a state anonymous. And i think it was probably wise and necessary for him to stay confidential because he knew the great risk of him for exposing the president s at that time. John, people can google the National Whistleblower center if they want more information. This is critical. Thanks so much for coming on the program. We appreciate it. Thank you for having me. Still ahead, an nbc news exclusive. A person mentioned in the whistleblower reveals details meetings with trump lawyer and Rudy Giuliani. Well look at new claims that some pay privately support it. You are watching velshi ruhle, live on msnbc. E watchin ruhle, live on msc. Nb too many people in pain settle for a restless nights sleep. Theres a better choice. Aleve pm. The only one to combine a safe sleep aid and the 12hour painrelieving strength of aleve that dares to last into the morning. So you feel refreshed. Aleve pm. Theres a better choice. Its an honor to tell you that [ applause ] thank you. Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. I love you only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Doprevagen is the number oneild mempharmacistrecommendeding . Memory support brand. You can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. Prevagen. 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The patented blend of protein, fat, and carbs is part of a balanced formula thats clinically shown to help manage blood sugar levels. In fact, it provides 60 more protein than the leading diabetes nutrition shake and contains only 1 carb choice. Enjoy the balanced nutrition of boost glucose control as part of a healthy diet. Welcome back. One of the key players mentioned in the whistleblower complaint is a former prosecutor general of ukraine. Nbcs chief Foreign Correspondent Richard Engel spoke with him about his interactions with Rudy Giuliani. Were you in regular contact with him . No. It was there were irregular contacts, but yes, i have spoken with him maybe ten time. Ten times . Maybe. Always about this issue . This and other even political issues. Joining us now, nbcs Richard Engel, chief Foreign Correspondent live in ukraine. Richard, you are uniquely positioned to talk about this, because youve covered the ukraine since 2014, any number of things from the plolitical uprising to the investigation into paul manafort. Tell me you what learned in that conversation thats relevant to what were all talking about now, which is this investigation that has led to an impeachment inquiry. So you mentioned the political changes that have happened in this country and they are fundamental to understanding the story. There was a revolution here and it seems like im starting at the beginning, but ill get there. And this country went from being a russian satellite to being a proamerican country and a revolution that took place basically where i am right now. I was here and there were bodies on the streets. That street revolution against the russianbacked government was supported by the obama administration. It was supported by then Vice President joe biden. And here is the issue. After that change of power, joe bidens son hunter took a paid position as a consultant for a Controversial Energy company in this country. And that is what this is all about. That is what Rudy Giuliani has been digging into. That is what President Trump has been pressuring the ukrainian government, pressuring the ukrainian president , the new ukrainian president to look into. Prosecutors here had already looked into it and found that there wasnt any particularly egregious violations, no direct violations of ukrainian law i should say. But other officials, other anticorruption investigators weve spoken to said that it was problematic, that it was problematic for the son of such an influential person to take a job as a paid consultant for an Energy Company during this sensitive transition to power. But the prosecutor i spoke to said that when he looked into it, he didnt finds any violations of laws, but that if the Trump Administration wants to reopen this investigation, and the President Trump clearly does, sending his personal lawyer to look into this matter, that ukraine, which is in a very weak position right now, will help in any way it can. Richard engel reporting for us from kiev. Thank you for that. In the aftermath of the explosive whistleblower complaint, one of the big questions, where do republicans stand . Former arizona senator jeff flake said i heard someone say if there were a private vote, there would be 30 republican votes. Thats not true. There would be at least 35. But so far most republican senators have kept quiet with few exceptions like utah senator mitt romney and nebraska senator ben sass. Republicans ought not to be rushing to circle the wagons when theres obviously lots thats very troubling. I did read the transcript. It remains troubling in the extreme. Its deeply troubling. Joining me now, Washington Post opinion writer jennifer ruben. Always good to see you, jennifer. Look, weve heard from people like mitt romney calling the phone call between President Trump and ukraines president troubling, but most of the people by our folks on the hill, your paper, so on, they went to ask senators, republican senators, they said they hadnt had time to read it. Its nine pages. Its not the mueller report, but obviously they dont want to touch this. So do you believe jeff flake when he says actually, if push came to shove, there are dozens of senators, republican senators, who would back this . Thats probably true, but its also true that it doesnt really matter. It matters what they do and what they say. I actually look at it as a bad sign for the president that there were so many republicans hiding yesterday as you alluded to. They either hadnt read it or no comment or they were having their nails done or something else. But they didnt want to comment on it in the worst way. And why . Because it looks horrible. Now, the investigation has to be done. The witnesses who are alluded to in the complaint are going to be spoken to im sure. But what is on its face is an e gre egregious violation of the president s oath of office and on top of it all yesterday hes musing about physical harm coming to the whistleblower and the person or persons who provided information. This stinks to high heaven. Now each one of them are doing the calculation as to how much they can say and what they can say. If you Say Something super positive about the president and this all goes up in smoke, which is quite likely to do, those comments come back to you in ads run by the democrats in 2020. If you go too far the base will jump down their throats, so their solution for now is keep quiet. From what i understand the house intends to move very quickly. Were talking about weeks, not months. And this fairly soon is going to come back to them and theyre going to have a decision to make. Whats more, theyre going to have to decide whether they choose to as the republicans did in the watergate era to come quietly to President Trump and say listen, we can do this the hardaway or we can do this the easy way. The easy way is you resign for the good of the country. The hardaway is we bite the bullet and youre the first person ever in the presidency to be removed by the senate. Weve had others impeached. Now, it seems far fetched at this stage that these people who are so spineless would do that, but we will see what these polls begin to look like in the weeks ahead. Right now theyre already sliding in heavy favor of impeachment. Well see how strong these witnesses are. And well see how vocal a few people become. Once a few people become vocal, that tends to encourage others and then well see how this begins to play out back home in their states. They come back in two weeks and theyll have to face the voters. Given the fact that we see these polls moving in the other direction, i wonder are a lot of republicans at this point or, you know, maybe jeff flakes calculation is a month from now or six weeks from now or whenever this wraps up that theyre year stating the Political Capital of President Trump . Oh, i think thats very true. I think that is diminishing fast. Thats part of the calculation, the miscalculation thats going on here. They have been petrified about opening any daylight between him. This may look very, very different a month from now, not to mention a year from now when theyre going to be scrambling to say well, yes, i supported his policies, but he did a lot of things i didnt approve of, so i think theyre all going to be looking at those polls. His approval numbers were bad to begin with. Well see how this plays out. But these people are watching the polls. Theyre watching their constituents. Theyre looking to see how individual days roll out. And i think every time trump does Something Like he did yesterday, when hes out there threatening the whistleblower and the informants as he put them makes it that much harder for the republicans to stand with him. Weve only got about a minute left here, but i wonder what you think the Democratic Senators role in all this is . Do they have a voice . Can they be people who help to convince maybe some of the more independently minded colleagues . What do you think is going on behind the scenes . I think the senators, the Democratic Senators for now have it sort of easy. They dont have to publicly take a position, because they can be as frank as they want. Theyve been frank before that the president does not understand the oath of office, that hes abused his powers. Whether they can privately go to ones and twos of these people and begin to reason with them is a big question mark. I think everybody sort of behind the scenes has a consensus that this is bad and the question is how to make it less bad for the republicans so they can perhaps do the right thing or perhaps the president will get the idea that hes being abandoned. For now the democrats in the senate are simply trying to reinforce what the House Democrats are doing which is a mo methodical fair investigation, trying to gets the facts out. I think right now the democrats in the senate are playing the supportive role. Thats going to change when it comes back over to the senate. Jennifer rubin, always great to talk to you. Thank you so much. Have a great weekend. Thank you for watching. Right now katy tury is here to pick up our coverage. Happy friday is right. Its been a long month this week. Thats how the joke goes. Thats exactly what we said at the end of the last year, because its true. Its true. Its been a long day this past hour. Chris, thank you very much. Good afternoon. It is 11 00 a. M. Out west and 2 00 p. M. Here in the east and nbc news is reporting the Trump White House is shell shocked and in total panic over a whistleblower complaint that has the president facing impeachment. Aids worry the allegations are so serious that the usual methods the president has used to successfully escape past controversies may not apply. This doesnt look like something thats going to be overtaken by the next news cycle said one Unnamed White House official. Reporting from multiple outlets makes it clear the white house knew it had a problem almost immediately. Efforts were made to hide the